[00:57] <holmescn> I am going to be crazy. After I upgrade my lubuntu from 11.04 to 11.10, everything become very slow.
[00:57] <holmescn> I am using btrfs as my root fs.
[00:58] <holmescn> btrfsck said there are some error inode, but why can't them be fixed?
[01:00] <holmescn> now, each operate that will access the hard disk will spend a lot of time.
[01:01] <holmescn> can anybody help me? any advice is welcome.
[01:01] <holmescn> thank you
[01:10] <phillw> wb holmescn
[01:11] <holmescn> oh, my week internet connection
[01:11] <holmescn> i didn't recieve any message before I relogin.
[01:11] <phillw> as far as I recall, btrfs was not ready for being for the root fs, still had some gremlins.
[01:11] <holmescn> I think so.
[01:12] <holmescn> so I decided to reinstall my Lubuntu this weekend.
[01:12] <holmescn> back to ext4
[01:12] <holmescn> but before I upgrade to 11.10, everything seems very well
[01:13] <holmescn> and I read some news that said kernel 3.0 improve the performance of btrfs.
[01:14] <phillw> holmescn: as there are no entries for 11.10 at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/btrfs I'm pretty stuck as to what to advise. That is the active area for reference to.
[01:15] <holmescn> perhaps back to ext4 is the best advise.
[01:15] <phillw> I suspect they are holding back for 12.04, as they did for ext4 under the 9.10 series which brought ext4 to the masses.
[01:17] <phillw> I have not really kept up with things for btrfs, last time I looked it was not a suitable boot area fs. Things change rapidly, but it is still on 'beta' release, so there will be gremlins.
[01:19] <phillw> holmescn: as one of the guru's states at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1389279 It is only tested on pre 11.10, they are still working things out.
[01:21]  * phillw omg, Iane has the 'knights that say "Ni"' as his logo.... 
[01:21] <holmescn> I am trying the btrfs just because i think the `copy on write' will take a better performance.
[01:22] <phillw> holmescn: Iane is a good guy, feel free to drop a note onto that thread & follow it.
[01:25] <holmescn> thank you, phillw. I am reading it.
[01:25]  * phillw is still chuckling at the knights that say 'Ni', sorry..... 
[01:26] <Unit193> phillw: It's Monty Python week on the forum
[01:27] <phillw> He he.... as I would expect from Iane, a great logo :)
[03:37] <piousminion> What is the difference between the ubuntu and lubuntu installer?   Are there lubuntu netboot images somewhere?
[05:50] <wxl> weird. my ssid (a decimal number) gets translated in connections into hex making it all but impossible for autoconnect
[05:50] <wxl> editing the ssid back to decimal allows it to connect
[05:51] <wxl> deleting previous entries and connecting-- no problem
[05:59] <wxl> so is that a problem with networkmanager?
[05:59] <wxl> where should i file this bug i guess is the question
[06:14] <bioterror> launchpad
[06:14] <bioterror> against nm-applet
[06:14] <wxl> and not network manager?
[06:14] <bioterror> you use network-manager-applet or something like that
[06:14] <wxl> (since it actually saves the settings)
[06:14] <wxl> the dialog in "edit connections" isn't the applet itself is it?
[06:14] <bioterror> or you can use network manager
[06:14] <wxl> k
[06:14] <bioterror> use it
[06:15] <bioterror> they will forward it to correct place
[06:15] <wxl> great
[06:15] <wxl> ah ha found a similar one
[06:16] <wxl> aw sweet and there's a possible fix
[06:16] <wxl> in case someone else faces this issue of decimal being translated to, ultimately, unicode: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/874328
[08:46] <lobbyuser> hi just installed  Lubuntu 11.10 Standard x64 Need help with sound options. i right click on speaker icon at bottom right of system tray and i am unable to get control panel for sound settings
[08:47] <lobbyuser> Sound works just not able to pick from speakers to head set
[08:48] <aldos> hi :)
[08:48] <aldos> how can i set the default session in lubuntu?
[08:49] <lobbyuser> not getting much help here aldos seems like a dead channel
[08:50] <aldos> where can i go to get help?
[09:03] <l33_> hi
[09:16] <l33_> still sometimes lubuntu desktop dissapears - but no problem here, using the filemanager then :)
[11:37] <zappus> Hello everyone
[11:38] <zappus> i just found out about lubuntu and it seems pretty awesome
[11:39] <zappus> does anyone know why exactly ubuntu chose LXDE as official windows manager spin?
[11:43] <KM0201> that question doesnt make sense
[11:43] <KM0201> LXDE is not the "official" ubuntu windows manager
[11:44] <bioterror> actually, Lubuntu uses Openbox as a Window Manager and LXDE is just taskbars and applications on top of that ;)
[12:10] <_8sVn> anyone ever had the trouble of chromium crashing the X server in a pretty unpredictable fashion when started in 11.04?? =)
[12:12] <_8sVn> guess there is a connection to the gma500 chipset of my eeePC1101, but i dindt find any forum posts directly connected to this issue with chromium or the emgd drivers
[12:45] <l33_> ;)
[12:57] <zappus> How can i configure ubuntu one on lubuntu?
[12:59] <KM0201> ubuntu one, is that that online storage thing?
[12:59] <zappus> yeah
[12:59] <zappus> ubuntu is supposed to give away 5gb of cloud space just for using the os
[12:59] <KM0201> right.
[13:00] <zappus> after about a year i finally found some use for it :D
[13:00] <zappus> but i cant seem to find the client anywhere...
[13:01] <zappus> i think i found it in the synaptic, installing
[13:01] <bioterror> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1490553
[13:01] <KM0201> yea
[13:02] <bioterror> I use ubuntuone in Lubuntu. You need to install ubuntuone-client-gnome to get the menu entry and gui.
[13:02] <bioterror> says last posting
[13:06] <preyas> hey sir my task panel icons are getting dislocated on wallpaper plzz help
[14:41] <ErwinJunge> Is there a way to get rid of the notifications in the systray? I don't mind (actually quite like) the pop-up notifications, but the list of notifications that keeps popping into the systray is very annoying.
[15:05] <KM0201> list of notifications?
[15:08] <rezbd> how can I create a bootable USB in Lubuntu?
[15:10] <rezbd> anybody knows please?
[15:13] <KM0201> use the usb creator?
[15:13] <KM0201> rezbd: should be the same way as you would in ubuntu
[15:13] <rezbd> no it doesn't work in that way
[15:13] <KM0201> what did you try to do.
[15:14] <rezbd> I'm trying to make a bootable usb for puppy linux
[15:14] <KM0201> ok, then download unetbootin
[15:15] <KM0201> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[15:16] <rezbd> the given instruction for Ubuntu is like >> System > Adminstration > Startup Disk
[15:16] <rezbd> thank KM0201 , gonna check it
[15:17] <KM0201> rezbd: youneed to install usb-creator... install it from synaptic (i think thats the name of the package, usb-creator)
[15:17] <KM0201> then its under system tools on lubuntu
[15:18] <rezbd> there are no "Startup Disk" under system tools KM0201
[15:18] <KM0201> did you install them?
[15:19] <KM0201> did you miss where i said.."you need to install usb-creator"
[15:19] <rezbd> KM0201, I'm gonna try it right now. thanks :)
[15:19] <KM0201> the package is called usb-creator-gtk
[15:20] <KM0201> install it and its dependencies
[15:21] <ErwinJunge> KM0201: Sorry for the late response, was afk for a while. The "list of notifications" is what I call the little envelope icon with a plus that appears in the systray if you ignore a notification.
[15:21] <ErwinJunge> If you still don't understand, I can provide a screenshot :)
[15:21] <KM0201> ErwinJunge: are you using Lubuntu?... i've never saw that on Lubuntu
[15:22] <KM0201> Ubuntu, yes.. not Lubuntu
[15:24] <rezbd> KM0201, finished to install
[15:24] <rezbd> usb-creator
[15:24] <KM0201> did you install usb-creator-gtk?
[15:24] <rezbd> for Gnome? yes
[15:24] <rezbd> I've just avoided kde
[15:24] <KM0201> if so, look under system tools, and "startup disk creator" is there
[15:24] <ErwinJunge> KM0201: http://tinypic.com/r/ap6uf7/7
[15:25] <ErwinJunge> This is lubuntu 11.10 (installed during beta 2)
[15:25] <rezbd> yes it's there, thank you so much KM0201  :)
[15:25] <KM0201> hmm
[15:25] <KM0201> right click your panel, add remove panel items
[15:26] <KM0201> go down, and see what is right before the "clock"
[15:26] <KM0201> (dont remove sys tray
[15:26] <KM0201> or notification area
[15:27] <ErwinJunge> That would the System Tray and above that Volume Control
[15:27] <KM0201> hmm
[15:28] <KM0201> so its in the system try for some reason
[15:28] <KM0201> i wonder why  i dont hve that
[15:28] <ErwinJunge> Yup, like I just said :)
[15:28] <ErwinJunge> Maybe it's a top vs bottom thing? There was a vanishing menu bug in beta that only affected top panels
[15:30] <ErwinJunge> Just verified, and I also have this when setting the panel to the bottom.
[15:30] <ErwinJunge> So not a top vs bottom thing. Maybe it's a remnant from beta and I should do a clean install?
[15:32] <rezbd> KM0201, does Lubuntu run on a core i3  processor? it's may be a stupid question but I'm serious
[15:32] <KM0201> acutally, i jsut thought of something, you're on 11.10, i'm on my desktop which is using 11.04
[15:32] <KM0201> rezbd: yes, it will
[15:32] <KM0201> why do you think it wouldnt?
[15:32] <rezbd> because I've failed today
[15:33] <rezbd> I've installed Lubuntu from a bootable USB
[15:34] <rezbd> but using same USB I failed to run it on my friends notebook
[15:34] <KM0201> well, if it failed,it had nothng to do w/ an i3...
[15:34] <KM0201> i've installed lubuntu o machines much slower than i3's
[15:35] <rezbd> I didn't understand why it didn't run on a core i3 processor. it surprised me a lot.
[15:35] <ErwinJunge> rezbd: I'm on an Atom N450 at the moment, so am very doubtful that it would not run on an i3
[15:35] <ErwinJunge> What did it fail with exactly?
[15:36] <rezbd> ErwinJunge, it just shows a black screen,
[15:36] <ErwinJunge> Could be a lot of hw related causes, possibly video related. Does an i3 have integrated graphics?
[15:36] <rezbd> I'm sorry I don't know
[15:36] <ErwinJunge> black screen, or black screen with blinking cursor?
[15:36] <rezbd> my netbook is a Atorm processor
[15:37] <rezbd> yes
[15:37] <rezbd> with blinking cursor
[15:37] <ErwinJunge> can you type in it?
[15:37] <rezbd> no I couldn't
[15:37] <ErwinJunge> hmmm
[15:37] <KM0201> it'll boot on an atom processor to.
[15:37] <rezbd> yes it did boot on my atom processor
[15:38] <rezbd> and I'm running it on my atom processor right now
[15:38] <KM0201> well if it will boot on an atom, what on earth makes you think it won't boot on an i3?
[15:38] <rezbd> it surprised me a lot
[15:38] <KM0201> or i should say, that it *shouldn't* boot o an i3.
[15:38] <ErwinJunge> It's very unlikely to be related to the processor in question. You've found a bug though
[15:38] <KM0201> .. there's som eother underlying issue if it didn't boot on the i3.. has nothign to do w/ the OS
[15:39] <rezbd> I think nobody think to run Lubuntu on a core i3 processor
[15:40] <ErwinJunge> rezbd: Can you try installing plain Ubuntu on the i3 machine?
[15:40] <rezbd> no I didn't ErwinJunge
[15:40] <rezbd> I don't have Ubuntu right now
[15:40] <rezbd> and my netspeed is so slow that I'm afraid to download it
[15:40] <ErwinJunge> Please do, it's most likely a bug upstream from Lubuntu, so in Ubuntu or the Linux kernel.
[15:41] <rezbd> ErwinJunge, mmm so should I try Ubuntu on it?
[15:41] <ErwinJunge> It would help localize the problem
[15:42] <rezbd> it will take up to 8 hours to download an iso :S
[15:42] <rezbd> for me
[15:42] <ErwinJunge> If Ubuntu has the same problem -> not related to Lubuntu specifically. If Ubuntu does work --> Lubuntu bug.
[15:42] <ErwinJunge> Wow, so that test is out of the question :)
[15:43] <rezbd> haha but if it's a serious issue, I will do it
[15:43] <kvarley> How can I enable audio in LUbuntu 11.10 64-bit via HDMI? I've just moved over to lubuntu on my pc, never had to do this on my netbook.
[15:44] <ErwinJunge> The other option is waiting for more knowledgeable people to appear here to tell you what to test/do/report based on what you have now. I don't know enough to help you any further, sorry.
[15:45] <rezbd> ErwinJunge, that's a lot of your concern :)
[15:45] <rezbd> for*
[15:46] <ErwinJunge> Happy to help :)
[15:48] <rezbd> ErwinJunge, this is what my internet connectiohttp://www.speedtest.net/result/1543866861.pngn speed is
[15:48] <rezbd> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1543866861.png
[15:48] <rezbd> so I think now you can guess why am I afraid to download an Ubuntu iso
[15:49] <ErwinJunge> rezbd: Are you on a mobile internet connection?
[15:50] <rezbd> ErwinJunge, yes I am
[15:50] <rezbd> dial up
[15:51] <ErwinJunge> Oh, so not only is it slow, it's also expensive. The "wait for more knowledgeable people" option is definitely better :)
[15:51] <rezbd> haha thanks
[15:52] <kvarley> Is there a way to install pulseaudio instead of alsa in lubuntu?
[16:25] <kvarley> Can't get HDMI audio working
[16:25] <kvarley> How can I get it working?
[16:29] <KM0201> kvarley: did you get pulse audio installed?
[16:29] <kvarley> KM0201: Doing it now
[16:29] <KM0201> and are you sure your audio device is recognized by lubuntu?
[16:29] <kvarley> KM0201: I don't think it is by Alsa but I know it works with Pulse so I'm going to install pulse
[16:29] <KM0201> ok.
[16:30] <KM0201> so sudo apt-get install pulseaudio pavucontrol
[16:30] <KM0201> if you're already installing pulseaudio, when its done, install pavucontrol
[16:30] <kvarley> KM0201: Thanks =)
[16:32] <Stephen-ie> Does anyone here have experience installing Lubuntu in a PowerPC. I've download the official Lubuntu PowerPC Alternate Install ISO. I an installing from CD. I can boot into the CD and the installer loads to ram, but when the installer goes to detect the CD to install Lubuntu in cannot detect the CD-Rom. Any suggestions?
[16:32] <kvarley> KM0201: Which applet can I install so I can control the volume? PulseAudio works, just would like an applet =)
[16:33] <KM0201> kvarley: now that, im not sure...
[16:33] <kvarley> KM0201: No problem, thanks for all your help =)
[16:50] <wxl> Stephen-ie: still here?
[16:51] <wxl> (assuming you are)
[16:51] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Yep
[16:51] <wxl> i'm the (lone?) ppc guy
[16:51] <wxl> so i can help you with the process
[16:51] <Stephen-ie> wxl: lol, poor you
[16:51] <wxl> are you using the minimal install?
[16:51] <wxl> yeah you're using alternate
[16:51] <wxl> sorry
[16:51] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I am using the Alternate Instal
[16:51] <wxl> so i had the same problem with mine
[16:52] <wxl> i could not get it to read no matter wat
[16:52] <Stephen-ie> wxl: from here
[16:52] <Stephen-ie> wxl: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily/current/
[16:52] <Stephen-ie> wxl: hmm, bugger
[16:52] <wxl> i ended up using the live cd
[16:52] <wxl> which has its own set of problems but they're not insurmountable
[16:52] <wxl> i tried EVERYTHING to get the alternate going
[16:53] <wxl> sadly there is no netboot cd that i could find
[16:53] <wxl> but another alternative is getting the ubuntu netboot
[16:53] <wxl> installing ubuntu
[16:53] <wxl> installing lubuntu
[16:53] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Which live CD did you use
[16:53] <wxl> and then removing all the extra crap
[16:53] <wxl> an older one from like 30 sept
[16:54] <wxl> should be same difference
[16:54] <wxl> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[16:54] <wxl> actually if you want to help me test something on that, i'd be quite grateful to you
[16:55] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ah you mean the Ubuntu Live CD not a specific Lubuntu Live CD
[16:55] <wxl> nono
[16:55] <wxl> wrong url sorry
[16:56] <wxl> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20111011/
[16:56] <wxl> there's where it's hiding
[16:57] <wxl> so i'll give you the heads up on three problems you are likely to face:
[16:57] <Stephen-ie> wxl: one sec
[16:57] <wxl> 1. ubiquity fails because it needs some updates. copy/paste the list and sudo apt-get update it
[16:58] <wxl> 2. pygobject bug causes ubiquity crash: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/856669 .. solution is sudo apt-get install python-gobject
[16:58] <wxl> (both of those fail right at execute)
[16:59] <wxl> 3. half-way through installation fails to connect to mirrors
[16:59] <wxl> that's the annoying one
[16:59] <wxl> basically it's going to make you connect to the internet and download packages
[16:59] <wxl> i don't care if you uncheck the option at the beginning and/or if you don't have a connection
[17:00] <wxl> it will still try and fail
[17:00] <wxl> so you must be connected
[17:00] <wxl> solution is supposedly to edit /etc/hosts and have mirror point at ports.ubuntu.com
[17:00] <wxl> which works
[17:00] <wxl> but i was thinking the other day a better solution would be to edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change mirror to ports.ubuntu.com
[17:01] <wxl> an example of a bad line in sources.list: "deb http://mirror/ubuntu oneiric main restricted" which of course should be "deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu oneiric main restricted"
[17:02] <wxl> i didn't realize that was ultimately the cause until after the install
[17:02] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ok I am kind of following you, I've never had to mess with an Ubuntu install, so this is kind of new to me. I am not an experienced Mac PPC or Lubuntu user. I am doing this for a friend, trying to breath some life into an old iBook. I needed something light, hence why I chose Lubuntu
[17:02] <wxl> it's a good choice, and don't worry-- i can make this super simple for you
[17:03] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Are you the only person so far that you know of doing a PPC install?
[17:03] <wxl> Stephen-ie: no there are some others on the ubuntu forums in the apple section
[17:03] <wxl> Stephen-ie: i think i'm the only one on oneiric tho
[17:03] <wxl> Stephen-ie: i've yet to encounter any other ppc'ers here
[17:04] <wxl> Stephen-ie: so anyways after you download the iso and get a disc made and get booted in there, let me know and i';ll walk you through the rest.
[17:04] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ok cool, before I get as far as actually doing the install. I need to find out what capabilites does the installer have in regard to partitioning and existing OS X installation
[17:05] <wxl> Stephen-ie: it makes it super simple.. the default set up will be to install them along side one another
[17:05] <wxl> Stephen-ie: i just don't know if it defaults to booting to lubuntu or os x.. but we can tweak that if need be
[17:06] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ok, but I will need to reduce the size of the existing OS X install. It takes up all the drive space  (20 GB drive) but it could be reduced to 5 GB's
[17:06] <wxl> Stephen-ie: are you usually a ubuntu user? if not, what's your preferred platform?
[17:06] <Stephen-ie> wxl
[17:07] <wxl> Stephen-ie: yeah well i'm pretty sure that's what it does, but i can't tell you with 100% certainty because i just wiped it clean
[17:07] <wxl> Stephen-ie: i was going to use mac on linux .. that's a project for another day tho
[17:07] <Stephen-ie> wxl: so I need to know if the installer can reduce the size on an exisitng OS X installation, without out destroying that partition and partition table
[17:08] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ubuntu is my distro of choice yes, I just want things simple and ubiquitous
[17:09] <Stephen-ie> wxl: So before I go down the road of down the install I will look and what Distro Installers can successfully resize and exisiting OS X install.
[17:10] <Stephen-ie> wxl: So far I haven't found one that can. The Debian PPC installer can't resize in can only wipe or install alongside
[17:10] <wxl> hold
[17:15] <Stephen-ie> wxl: The PPCRCD http://ppcrcd.pld-linux.org can boot to a PPC Mac and has the Apple Mac Partitioner for Linux http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/powerpc/mac-fdisk.txt which appears to be able to resise and exisiting partition but it's as complicated as hell, well to me anyway. I do have an original Mac OS X Install CD and you can edit the parition from that, but if you resise and exisiting partition with it, it just wipes both 
[17:16] <Stephen-ie> wxl: My main goal is to be able to install and light Linux distro that is also easy to use, alongside and exisiting OS X install. Something I thought would be easy, but it appears not.
[17:16] <Stephen-ie> wxl: holding
[17:16] <wxl> Stephen-ie: working, oin phone..
[17:17] <Stephen-ie> wxl: no problem
[17:26] <KM0201> you'd think dual booting w/ a mac, would be easy, for some reason though, it's a PITA
[17:28] <wxl> Stephen-ie: debian is a little poopy that way but looks like ubuntu should have no problem https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GraphicalInstall
[17:29] <wxl> KM0201: how so? it would seem fairly simple.. couple yaboot entries, no woop
[17:29] <KM0201> i dunno, just always gave me issues.
[17:29] <wxl> intel macs still use yaboot?
[17:30] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ye I am aware of Ubuntu's general ability to resize partitions successfully, hence why I thought this would be easy
[17:30] <KM0201> i was referring to PPC macs
[17:30] <wxl> KM0201: yah should be too troublesome.. don't think.
[17:31] <KM0201> wxl: well, i only have 1 real experience, and it was a pain for some reason, might have been my lack of experience at the time (it was quite a while ago)
[17:31] <KM0201> but even then, dual booting w/ windows was very easy
[17:31] <Stephen-ie> wxl: But it appears when it comes to PPC's they use a partitioning table which is not easy to resize and this mac-fdisk seems to be the only thing that claims it can do it
[17:31] <wxl> KM0201: admittedly yaboot is not.. uhhh.. quite as easy as with grub but it just takes a little knowledge
[17:32] <wxl> Stephen-ie: oh right you have hfs+
[17:33] <wxl> Stephen-ie: why not resize in disk utility in os x?
[17:33] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Yap, it seems all PPC pre OS X 15 use HFS+, not that I know what the implications of that are
[17:36] <wxl> i'd personally just try to run it through and see what happens
[17:36] <wxl> if it gives you a warning about wiping, then get out of there
[17:36] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Using and OX X Install CD does give you the option to use the Disk Utility to modify the partitions on and exisiting HDD. So I was going to try this, but in modifying the HDD with OS X 10.2.8 on it, it gave me the option to split the partition in two, so I was thinking I keep one half as the OS X Install and the other for Linux. But then I go to confirm this it warns me that in modifity the partition it will delete the data 
[17:37] <wxl> i tried something similar in 10.4 but it couldn't handle the resize for some odd reason
[17:37] <wxl> (different problem)
[17:37] <wxl> like i said i'd just try to run through ubuntu installer
[17:38] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I can't reinstall the OS X that is there, It has purchased software on it, Word, Photoshop with no backup disks. And the Mac OS X install disk I do have is not the original, it is a torrent download, I just needed it to boot into the Disk Utility
[17:40] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ye I am downloaded the regurlar Lubuntu PPC installer ISO Now. How I didn't find that before I don't know. The Lubuntu page is a bit sketchy with it's links, I couldn't find links to PPC stuff anywhere, only found the CD Image pages through a Google Search
[17:42] <wxl> yeah well they're sort of holding off on officially 11.10 ppc support
[17:43] <wxl> which is the first canonical lubuntu release.. which is where ppc kind of comes into the picture
[17:43] <wxl> before that there was no ppc at all
[17:43] <wxl> so be thankful :D
[17:45] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Yes of course, although from looking at DistroWatch it seems even Ubuntu only support PPC from time to time, not on all versions. So there seems to be no consistency of PPC support in all Ubuntu Family Derivatives
[17:45] <wxl> correct
[17:46] <wxl> it is not "officially" supported
[17:47] <wxl> of course i think the universe and multiverse repos aren't either :D
[17:47] <Stephen-ie> wxl: My other option is MintPPC which was built by a guy that got Lubuntu running on PPC before there was a PPC version, was impressed with results but felt he could do better. So it looks like MintPPC is a stripped down version of Debian/Mint. His install process is a net install
[17:48] <wxl> and they exist as an easy-to-click option on EVERY SINGLE buntu
[17:48] <wxl> yeah i saw that but didn't like his install process
[17:48] <wxl> i think debian's is annoying enough
[17:48] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I'd like to try the Lubuntu version and the MinPPC version and compare them
[17:49] <wxl> i was kind of thinking about doing a multiboot with debian and mintppc
[17:49] <wxl> but that's a rainy day project
[17:49] <wxl> at best
[17:50] <Stephen-ie> wxl: what stalled me is the ability to edit the partitions. If I can confidently understand and use mac-fdisk I might be ok. I am just afraid of fucking up his partions which I can't recover from, well not with 100% certainty
[17:50] <wxl> Stephen-ie: again, what's your platform of choice?
[17:51] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Mine is Ubuntu, just for ease of use an ubiquitous
[17:51] <wxl> Stephen-ie: what's your command line experience like? any experience with partitioning?
[17:52] <Stephen-ie> I love using Linux, but at the same time I don't things to be difficult just for the sake of it
[17:52] <Stephen-ie> wxl: None
[17:53] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I always used GParted on Parted Magic whenever I want to mess with partitions, its easy to use and gives me some confidence I won't mess it up. But GParted doesn't support PPC
[17:53] <wxl> right
[17:54] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I have basic command line experience that comes with being a new Ubuntu user, been a user for a 2 years now
[17:54] <wxl> yeah i'm wondering if you can do this at all
[17:55] <bioterror> Stephen-ie, what do you mean gparted does not support PPC?
[17:55] <wxl> bioterror: s/ppc/hfs+
[17:56] <bioterror> hfs+ is steaming pile of :-----)
[17:56] <bioterror> something what my son generates into his diapers
[17:57] <micahg> hfs+ needs hfsprogs
[17:57] <Stephen-ie> bioterror: I downloaded the GParted Live ISO and it wasn't recognised by the PPC machine and I don't remember seeing support for booting on a PPC machine on their site
[17:57] <wxl> Stephen-ie: read the end of that mac-fisk man page.. it really suggests against it
[17:58] <micahg> huh?  why wouldn't gparted support PPC?
[17:58] <bioterror> micahg, still you need to disable journaling for example if you're accessing it from GNU/Linux system
[17:58] <wxl> it's not about ppc
[17:58] <wxl> it's about hfs+
[17:58] <wxl> hfs+
[17:58] <bioterror> it's about a LiveCD system that does not have a PowerPC version ;)
[17:59] <micahg> try an (L)Ubuntu PPC live CD then
[17:59] <bioterror> squeeze (stable) (gnome): GNOME partition editor
[17:59] <bioterror> 0.7.0-1: amd64 armel i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64 kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc
[17:59] <bioterror> for example
[17:59] <wxl> might do it
[17:59] <wxl> of course, isn't that what the installer uses?
[18:00] <Stephen-ie> wxl: How the f*k do you do that "To avoid this issue, create MacOS partitions within MacOS and then don't resize them in mac-fdisk." ah now I am really messed up
[18:01] <wxl> i assume they're talking about using disk utility
[18:01] <wxl> of course that only works non-destructively in like 10.4 on
[18:02] <Stephen-ie> Ok as far as GParted goes, I know it can create and possiblly edit HFS/+ partitions as I had to create a HFS partition on my external drive in order for Mac OS X 10.2 to read it. So GParted supports HFS
[18:03] <HyperShock> Hi all, is there a way to make the desktop backgrounds change every so often, like we were able to do in gnome 2.0 or ubuntu 11.04 classic?
[18:03] <wxl> Stephen-ie: so follow bioterror's advice.. use a live cd, then install gparted and use it
[18:03] <Stephen-ie> but if I want to use GParted Live CD, I need one that can boot on PPC architecture, which I don't see that GParted CD's not Parted Magic CD's can
[18:03] <wxl> (or just go through the installer which i think will have the same effect)
[18:03] <bioterror> Stephen-ie, be more creative
[18:04] <Stephen-ie> ok hold on, let me digest these suggestions
[18:04] <bioterror> why?
[18:04] <bioterror> I've used about any graphical livecd and installed gparted for that kind of dirty work
[18:05] <wxl> a live cd is a live cd
[18:05] <bioterror> never used gparted live cd or parted magic
[18:05] <bioterror> or what ever that was
[18:05] <wxl> assuming you have enough ram you could "install" all kinds of crap
[18:05] <bioterror> RAM is almost free
[18:06] <wxl> heh
[18:06]  * HyperShock wants to install some crap so h e can have an animated desktop in lubuntu
[18:06] <bioterror> 10 euros and you can pick 4GB of 1333MHz DDR3 from my front door
[18:06] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I was under the understanding that Live CD's are architecture dependant. So you need a different Live CD for X86, amd64 and PPC
[18:06]  * wxl sighs
[18:06] <bioterror> those are samsun branded with serial numbers starting with KN
[18:07] <bioterror> Stephen-ie, for real?
[18:07] <wxl> Stephen-ie: i have you a link way up there for where you can download a ppc lubuntu live cd, remember?
[18:08] <bioterror> http://releng.archlinux.org/isos/2011.10.19_04-00-01/archlinux-2011.10.19_04-00-01-netinstall-dual.iso here's a livecd with x86 and i686 ;)
[18:08] <Stephen-ie> well I have live CD's for Ubuntu x86 and amd64 and Parted Magic x86 which this iBook PPC cannot see when it boots
[18:08] <wxl> oh my god
[18:08] <wxl> i feel like i'm talking to myself
[18:08] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I'm following
[18:08] <bioterror> Stephen-ie, that's becouse PowerPC is not x86
[18:09] <bioterror> you see
[18:09] <bioterror> !powerpc
[18:09] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I've just finished downloading the Lubuntu PPC Live CD now, going to try in a minute
[18:09] <wxl> Stephen-ie: good come back to me when you got it loaded
[18:10]  * wxl glues his hair back on
[18:10] <bioterror> wxl, did you pull your hair like homer in simpsons when he heard marge was pregnant? :D
[18:10] <Stephen-ie> bioterror: That's my point, Live CD's are architecture dependent, you need a Live CD for PowerPC, which GParted nor Parted Magic don't provide
[18:11] <bioterror> Stephen-ie, whine to them
[18:11]  * HyperShock would like to know the name of the package that has to be installed that allows the desktop to have automatically changing backgrounds in lubuntu (ubuntu 11.10)... ? :) thanks a bunch.
[18:11] <bioterror> "your livecd is a "RACIST"!!" ;)
[18:11] <wxl> architecturist
[18:12] <wxl> HyperShock: really? ok. well, do you want rotating backgrounds that are static or animated ones?
[18:12] <Stephen-ie> bioterror: I am not winning, I am just trying to find a program that can edit and resize and exisiting Mac OS X install on a PPC, which I have not been able to find except for mac-fdisk which seems very risky, in their own words
[18:13] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I away to try this Lubunu Live CD now, will be you be here long?
[18:13] <bioterror> is that Mac OS X 10.3?
[18:14] <HyperShock> static rotating ones would be nice. animated ones would be exceptional. and. animated ones that rotate with each others would be spectacular! :D
[18:14] <wxl> Stephen-ie: all day long
[18:14] <bioterror> or newer?
[18:14] <wxl> bioterror: he's on 10.2
[18:14] <bioterror> whaaat
[18:14] <bioterror> for real?!
[18:14] <Stephen-ie> bioterror: Mac OS X 10.2.8
[18:14] <bioterror> whhhhhhhhasdasd
[18:14] <bioterror> TRASH IT!
[18:14] <bioterror> old and crappy HFS+
[18:15] <Stephen-ie> It's an old iBook I want to breath some life into with a light linux distro, but I also need to retain the existing installed OS X partition
[18:15] <bioterror> what's so precious in 10 years old OS X?
[18:15] <wxl> HyperShock: try wallpapertray for static and compiz with xwinwrap for dynamic
[18:15] <Stephen-ie> trashing it aint an option for now
[18:15] <wxl> bioterror: he bought some crappy ms apps
[18:15] <bioterror> 10.4 got a case sensitive HFS+
[18:15] <HyperShock> wxl thank you
[18:15] <bioterror> and some other tweaks
[18:16] <bioterror> I preferred UFS over HFS+ on my 10.3
[18:16] <wxl> bioterror: the way i look at it, he's doing his friend a favor at least by getting linux on it
[18:16] <wxl> bioterror: ..and said friend will probably learn to embrace it and eventually can os x
[18:16] <wxl> bioterror: so be nice :D
[18:16] <HyperShock> Stephen-ie: what software on the old partition are you REALLY trying to salvage (save) for your friend?
[18:17] <wxl> he mentioned word and photoshop
[18:17] <wxl> so yes, he could do libreoffice and gimp
[18:17] <Stephen-ie> bioterror: The iBook doesn't belong to me, it has two owners, both complain its too slow, but are sceptical about linux and they want to be able to revert back to OS X if their now happy, and the current OS X install has purchased software on it with no original disks to reinstall from
[18:17] <wxl> put there ARE people that whine about that crap
[18:17] <bioterror> gsus :D
[18:18] <bioterror> tell them to move on with their lives ;)
[18:18] <wxl> sheesh
[18:18] <bioterror> and not stuck in year 2002
[18:18] <wxl> dude's doing a community service and you're giving him crap
[18:18] <bioterror> I purchased MS OFfice 2004 or something too
[18:18] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: Word and Photoshop, and the actuall OS X. They don't have the original disks for anything. I have a torrent download of OS X 10.2 but not sure if I will have problems actually using it to install, i.e. license key's etc
[18:19] <bioterror> OS X doesnt have licenses
[18:19] <HyperShock> Stephen-ie: can you find or obtain another hard drive that will install in the old laptop? if so, put a full install of the appropriate linux on it, with gimp and libreoffice. then go show your friends how awsome it is, if they are still unsatisfied then you can simply reinstall their old hard drive
[18:19] <wxl> that's actually a decent idea HyperShock
[18:19] <bioterror> HyperShock, you have no idea what you're talking about
[18:19] <wxl> of course opening up an ibook ain't exactly easy
[18:19] <wxl> or ANY apple laptop for that matter
[18:19] <bioterror> HyperShock, I want to see when you replace a iBook G4's hard drive
[18:20] <wxl> i replaced a g3 and a g4 powerbook
[18:20] <wxl> and actually took apart an ibook so i could salvage it's hard drive
[18:20] <bioterror> I will bring popcorn and coke with me ;)
[18:20] <wxl> it's not impossible
[18:20] <wxl> it's just really flipping hard :D
[18:20] <bioterror> yeah it's not, but it's not "hotswap" ;)
[18:20] <wxl> HELL NO
[18:20] <bioterror> you have to tear that apart and count all the screws
[18:21] <wxl> on the hotswap scale, it's like antarctica
[18:21] <wxl> i usually make maps of all the screws
[18:21] <wxl> you ahve to
[18:21] <bioterror> :D
[18:21] <wxl> first time i did it i learned the value of a spudger
[18:23] <Stephen-ie> Using another drive is an option yes, but I was doing this on the basis I might get it done in a day or too with minimal hassle, that's what I thought it would be. Now I am considering having to go get another HDD. Then there is probems with that of, getting into the iBook, will the drive me compatible, I don't know if Apple use proprietary hardware connections. I am no a Mac person
[18:24] <wxl> Stephen-ie: then don't bother. give us a jingle when you're all booted up on that live cd
[18:25] <bioterror> take usb drive, copy ~/'s into it as a backup and install lubuntu all over it ;)
[18:25] <bioterror> if they dont like it, put 10.5 ;)
[18:25] <Stephen-ie>  What I did to was use some Hard Drive cloning software (shareware) to clone he  HDD to my external drive. Now I could clone that to a another HHD to install into the iBook if needed, if I can get into it. Or I need a Firewire external drive that the iBook can boot from
[18:25] <bioterror> they can probably use some decent software with it
[18:25] <bioterror> 10.4 had problems running anything decent like latest transmission
[18:25] <wxl> i wpied my 10.4
[18:25] <bioterror> "your version of os x is not supported anymore"
[18:25] <wxl> weird
[18:26] <bioterror> how so?
[18:26] <wxl> obviously i haven't used transmission in a while
[18:26] <HyperShock> what about booting off a usb drive? is that possible with the mac book in question?
[18:26] <bioterror> yes it is
[18:26] <wxl> bioterror: i only have lubuntu on my powerbook. no more os x. f the dual boot.
[18:26] <bioterror> wxl, one os, one love
[18:26] <wxl> i'll do mac on linux if i can figure it out. rainy day project, that.
[18:26] <bioterror> wxl, I'm a fixed gear bike dewd ;)
[18:26] <wxl> hahahahh
[18:26] <wxl> no shit
[18:27] <wxl> me too :D
[18:27] <Stephen-ie> ya ya none of the solutions are ideal, and partitioning was my favoured option so I am going to stick with that for now. Ok off to try Lubuntu Live CD. Lets hope the iBook can read the disk and parition :-)
[18:27] <wxl> (of course i also have a 27 speed touring bike so i know there's different tools for different jobs)
[18:27] <Stephen-ie> thanks everyone for your input, appreciate it
[18:27] <wxl> my work place: http://bikefriday.com
[18:27] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Care to give me your email, so I can follow up with you
[18:27] <bioterror> wxl, I have a box there full of shimano 105's and FSA's carbon cranks waiting for a frame ;)
[18:27] <wxl> Stephen-ie: i'll be here, just come back
[18:28] <wxl> bioterror: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... :D
[18:28] <bioterror> wxl, ~$170 chinaman's frame :D
[18:28] <wxl> doh
[18:28] <bioterror> and ~$100 carbon fork from chinaman too
[18:28] <bioterror> going to be a "hater's gonna hate" bike
[18:29] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I may be gone for a good while have to consult with the owner and get food. Are you always in this room with this User ID wxl?
[18:29] <wxl> i guess i'm more of the sheldon brown school of fixies.. practicality
[18:29] <wxl> Stephen-ie: almost always
[18:30] <bioterror> wxl, conversions? :)
[18:30] <wxl> bioterror: oh yeah
[18:30] <wxl> but like brakes are nice
[18:30] <wxl> i've done the whole brakeless thing before
[18:30] <wxl> i was a bike messenger way back when
[18:30] <bioterror> front brake is nice
[18:31] <wxl> actually rivendell's quickbeam is very consistent with my school of thinking
[18:31] <wxl> but i'd much rather have a bilenky "hetchins-ish" frame
[18:31] <Stephen-ie> wxl: If I don't get back on later I'll catch you tomorrow, you can reach me at steve@steveanon.e4ward.com if you want to
[18:32] <wxl> we better quit this or someone's going to call us on being off topic, bioterror
[18:32] <bioterror> :D
[18:33] <wxl> anyways if you want to talk bike there's always #bikefriday tho it's a wee slow as of late
[18:33] <wxl> and when i say "wee slow" i mean "lifeless"
[19:11] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I am trying the Lubuntu Live  CD now
[19:11] <wxl> did you click the install?
[19:11] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Litterly booting now
[19:12] <wxl> Stephen-ie: let me know when you get there
[19:12] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Am at yaboot prompt
[19:12] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Proceed with command 'live'?
[19:13] <wxl> yep
[19:13] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Loading
[19:13] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Text like Ubiquity display of Lubuntu 11.10 show
[19:14] <wxl> you know ubiquity is the graphical installer?
[19:14] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Looks like its trying load, the 4 dots are pulsing
[19:14] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Yah, that what on the standard Live CD right?
[19:16] <Stephen-ie> wxl: been sent to a BusyBox display with (initramfs) prompt
[19:17] <Stephen-ie> wxl: The list of BusyBox commands doesn't explain much
[19:18] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ok, I've no idea where to go from here
[19:21] <leszek> hi
[19:22] <Stephen-ie> hi leszek
[19:22] <HyperShock> Stephen-ie: for the lubu 11.10 ppc live cd? and it dumped you into a busybox?
[19:22] <Stephen-ie> welcome
[19:22] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: yep
[19:23] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: It showed what looked like the Lubuntu loading screen for a minute, you the screen with Lubuntu 11.10 in the center and the four dots pulsating under it, then it sent me to the BusyBox prompt
[19:27] <leszek> Stephen-ie: what does the log file say ? casper.log ?
[19:30] <HyperShock> where did you get this cd again?
[19:31] <Stephen-ie> leszek: How do I load the loag file
[19:31] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: I got the PPC ISO from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20111011/
[19:31] <leszek> you can cat it or if (I'm not sure if its included in lubuntus busybox) its available vi it :P
[19:32] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: suggested to me by wxl
[19:32] <HyperShock> oh, that would be an experimental, we need to find a stable one
[19:33] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: ah crap I should have downloaded from here http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/ right?
[19:34] <Stephen-ie> leszek: Can you explain this 'cat' command for me
[19:34] <bioterror> !cat | Stephen-ie
[19:34] <leszek> hah ;) i love bots :P
[19:35] <bioterror> what
[19:35] <bioterror> no cat in there :o
[19:35] <leszek> cat filename                                                          will show the contents of a file
[19:35] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: Ah I can't get it from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/current/ there is no PPC live iso, it seems http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20111011/ is the only page that has a PPC ISO
[19:37] <HyperShock> yeah its sad, that makes me think they are all experimental.
[19:37] <Stephen-ie> leszek: With # cat casper.log I got 'Unable to find a medium containing a live file system'
[19:38] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: Yah, from what wxl told me, he got his ISO from there and it mostly worked, there were some problems with the ubuntu download mirrors or something, but he fixed it, I think he got further than I am now
[19:39] <wxl> i'm installed
[19:39] <wxl> so yeah, a bit farther along
[19:40] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: There is also a current PPC Alternate Install Live ISO, but it couln't see my CD-Rom during the install
[19:40] <wxl> as i said into the wrong channel :D all linux is experimental. if you want otherwise, there's something called unix
[19:40] <Stephen-ie> hey wxl , do you see the error I am getting, being sent to BusyBox
[19:40] <wxl> Stephen-ie: never had it
[19:40] <wxl> the fact that you can't see the cd file system is troublesome
[19:40] <wxl> i would try making a new cd personally
[19:41] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I did check the ISO and Physical Disc MD5's and the all matched, does that make a difference
[19:45] <wxl> hah i'm baffled
[19:45] <Stephen-ie> wxl: me too
[19:46] <wxl> try adding break=top to the yaboot prompt
[19:46] <HyperShock> Stephen-ie: found the following >>> http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=ppc     --- which appears to list the known ppc distributions
[19:46] <wxl> e.g. live break=top
[19:47] <bioterror> Stephen-ie, http://www.finnix.org/
[19:47] <wxl> finnix RULEZ
[19:47] <wxl> they don't have an "install" per se
[19:48] <wxl> and yeah i'm pretty sure that Stephen-ie alone will struggle with the GUI
[19:48] <wxl> let alone his friends
[19:48] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: Thanks for the link, ye I would say there are better supported linux distros out but what I want to be sure of is (A) it's light, hence trying Lubuntu , (B) Easy to user for a new Linux user, hence trying something Ubuntu based
[19:49] <bioterror> but PPC is just community driven on ubuntu
[19:49] <wxl> Stephen-ie: any luck with the yaboot option?
[19:49] <bioterror> not the best
[19:49] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Going to try now
[19:52] <Stephen-ie> wxl: I got brought to BusyBox almost straight away, with 'Spawning shell within the initramfs' displaying just above the BusyBox prompts
[19:52] <Stephen-ie> and now am at a initramfs promt
[19:53] <Stephen-ie> I did a cat casper.log but it found no casper.log file
[19:56] <bioterror> CruxPPC seems interesting
[19:56] <HyperShock> also you can try the pure debian one: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.3/powerpc/bt-cd/
[19:57] <HyperShock> unfortunately it comes on 8 cds
[19:57] <bioterror> debian has no live for ppc
[19:57] <Stephen-ie> Looks like I might have to abandon Lubuntu for now and try MintPPC
[19:57] <bioterror> only i386 and amd64
[19:58] <HyperShock> here it as a dvd: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/6.0.3/powerpc/iso-dvd/
[20:00] <Stephen-ie> Yah Downloaded the Debian PPC ISO alright, I hadn't tried it yet as I was keen to get Lubuntu working
[20:01] <bittin> Stephen-ie, #debianppc and #debian-ppc :)
[20:01] <Stephen-ie> One suggestion was to download the Ubuntu 11.10 Minimal CD ISO and install Lubuntu on top of that
[20:01] <bittin> iam using debian on an eMac myself :)
[20:01] <bioterror> hey
[20:01] <bioterror> he still wants to get a X11 session from LiveCD just to run gparted
[20:02] <Stephen-ie> bittin: How do you find it, would you say it is easy to use for a Linux beginner
[20:02] <bittin> Stephen-ie, yea its not that hard
[20:02] <bioterror> it's as easy as you want it to be
[20:02] <HyperShock> who is the beginner you or your friends?
[20:02] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: My friends
[20:02] <bittin> you need to configure more yourself then in *buntu tough
[20:03] <bittin> but its not as hard as slack / gentoo
[20:03] <bittin> etc
[20:03] <bioterror> *than
[20:03] <Stephen-ie> HyperShock: I'm not hugley experience either, been using Ubuntu for 2 years
[20:04] <Stephen-ie> bittin: Could it be called light weight, would it run fast or faster than Mac OS X on an iBook
[20:05] <bioterror> Stephen-ie, you can install openbox and required lxde components
[20:05] <bittin> Stephen-ie, i never used it on an iBook
[20:05] <bittin> but i guess
[20:05] <bioterror> or you can install just openbox and use tint2 for example
[20:05] <bittin> i use pekwm and tint2 :)
[20:05] <bioterror> grab configs from lubuntu
[20:06] <bioterror> all the good parts you like ;)
[20:07] <Stephen-ie> Ok, I don't really know much about the components of Lubuntu. But if I was to install Debian and then pull in some Lubuntu components, could you give me a shopping list of what I should grab
[20:10] <bioterror> http://wiki.lxde.org/en/Debian
[20:13] <Stephen-ie> what does Lubuntu use in place of Nautilus, Firefox, Totem Player, OpenOffice in Ubuntu
[20:13] <bioterror> PCManFM
[20:13] <bioterror> Chromium
[20:14] <bioterror> Gnome Mplayer
[20:14] <bioterror> and ubuntu does not use openoffice anymore
[20:14] <bioterror> it forked and that's called LibreOffice
[20:16] <Stephen-ie> sorry ye I'm still on Ubuntu 10.10 myself, still got OOo. So if I install Debian with LXDE, PCManFM, Chromium, Gnome Mplayer and LibreOffice, do I have a close to Lubuntu build?
[20:18] <leszek> Stephen-ie: ubuntu has a newer and better pcmanfm build than debian
[20:19] <wxl> well if you're going to go ubuntu to get it trimmed down to the lubuntu base, you've got some work to do
[20:19] <wxl> just install lubuntu-desktop
[20:19] <wxl> and then do !purelxde
[20:19] <wxl> oh was that the wrong one?
[20:19] <wxl> !purelxde | please
[20:19] <wxl> there you go :D
[20:21] <DagonIT> I just installed Ubuntu 11-10 and it apparently didn't bother to install grub, is there any way of installing grub sepertely
[20:21] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Do you mean install Ubuntu Desktop, then do purelxde
[20:21] <wxl> no
[20:21] <wxl> 1. install ubuntu
[20:21] <Stephen-ie> wxl: ya
[20:21] <wxl> 2. install lubuntu-desktop (by synaptic or apt-get or aptitude or whatever you like)
[20:22] <wxl> 3. follow the purelxde instructions to get rid of the pieces of ubuntu not required by lubuntu
[20:22] <Stephen-ie> wxl: ok
[20:22] <Stephen-ie> wxl: Ah right I get you now
[20:22] <Stephen-ie> I think this is a good option
[20:22] <wxl> you also might try the other two possible live cds
[20:23] <Stephen-ie> Next stop, download Ubuntu PPC ISO and try to install that. I've enough useless live cd's now to build an art installation
[20:24] <wxl> i've got some bsd ones if you want
[20:24] <wxl> one personal word of warning:
[20:24] <wxl> do NOT install 11.04
[20:24] <Stephen-ie> I should probably post on the Ubuntu forum or somewhere suitable my experience of trying to install Lubuntu on PPC so the Lubuntu Dev's and others can work with it
[20:24] <wxl> it was running WAY too hot
[20:25] <wxl> that's a good idea
[20:25] <wxl> lubuntu mailing list would be good
[20:25] <Stephen-ie> ok will do
[20:25] <Stephen-ie> I'll be going to Ubuntu 11.10
[20:25] <leszek> Stephen-ie: as far as I know actually the ppc builds are not worked on by anyone. They are simply automatic builds by the ubuntu build system
[20:26] <Stephen-ie> leszek: I didn't know that, if they are automated build then why was there Ubuntu releases in the past without PPC builds, that's odd
[20:27] <leszek> Stephen-ie: I guess because the build system failed building ppc builds :P
[20:27] <wxl> they're "community supported" which is to say there are still people working on them but not like with regular ubuntu
[20:27] <Stephen-ie> leszek: and nobody probably even noticed :-)
[20:27] <leszek> as ppcs are not a priority its a not so high ranked problem to not release
[20:27] <wxl> i think the reality of it was they were well supported until mac switched to intel
[20:28] <leszek> yeah thats true
[20:29] <wxl> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2007-February/000098.html
[20:29] <Stephen-ie> ya I can understand that. However Linux Distro's like Lubuntu and maybe Xubuntu and built to be lightweight and therefore should be a perfect match for older PC's, such as older PPC computers. So these lightweight distros should place higher focus on trying to run successfully on plder PC's and architectures
[20:30] <wxl> it was 06 that the switch to intel happened
[20:31] <leszek> Stephen-ie: lubuntu was (including 11.10) only focussing on 32bit x86 systems. This might change in the future. But it needs more then 5 people which find those ppc builds useful
[20:32] <wxl> yeah even amd and/or 64bit systems aren't incredibly well suppoprted
[20:32] <Stephen-ie> I am thinking of a charity here in Ireland I worked with, Camara, we refurbished old PC's, put Edubuntu on them and shipped them to schools, villages and Uni's in Africa then went over to teach the locals how to use and maintain them. However we were only using Edubuntu, and  remember working on some very very slow PC that really struggled to run Ubuntu but we still shipped them.
[20:32] <wxl> cheap donated pcs are less likely to be macs imho
[20:33] <Stephen-ie> They would have been better suited with Xubuntu and Lubuntu and other lightweights, except I didn't know about these distros at the time. We even had to dump some old Apple G4's cause we couldn't get Ubuntu to install on them. That was a waste in my view
[20:35] <Stephen-ie> true we rarely go cheap Macs, but we got plenty of very old under power'd x86 PCs that could really have benefitted from lighter weight distros than Ubuntu
[20:35] <wxl> agreed
[20:36] <Stephen-ie> my point being that sometimes some distros are better suited to embracing the Old
[20:36] <wxl> agreed
[20:37] <Stephen-ie> well on that I going to head off. Thanks for everyones help and advice. I will have a go and stripped down Ubuntu LXDE etc. and see how I get on, if fails, I'll try MintPPC, if fails, I'll try Debian PPC LXDE
[20:38] <Stephen-ie> if fails I try the iBook out the iFrickenWindow
[20:39] <bioterror> recycle it!
[20:39] <bioterror> it has copper and other valuable things for scavening
[20:40] <Stephen-ie> bioterror: Sure, but I will take out me rage on it first, then give it back to its owner for them to morne and recycle
[20:40] <bioterror> haha
[20:52] <Smile4ever> :-)
[21:38] <easygoing> woops
[21:39] <easygoing> hey guys is anyone else having the problem where whenever you come out of sleep" your panel adds an invisible icon that cannot be clicked on or removed without a fresh rebbot
[21:39] <easygoing> reboot*
[21:40] <easygoing> these invisible icons have moved my wifi, chrom, and volume control to the center of my panel.
[21:40] <easygoing> what is causing these invisible panel icons?
[21:44] <easygoing> silverarrow is much better. :)
[21:45] <silverarrow> hi
[21:45] <silverarrow> yes, cumbersome nicks
[21:46] <silverarrow> I don't think my laptop goes dormant?
[21:46] <silverarrow> only screen
[21:46] <silverarrow> might have to doe something about it
[21:46] <silverarrow> I would have chosen either arrow or lightning, but they were taken
[21:47] <easygoing> well my hard disks spin down blah blah... i shut screen it goes to sleep i open screen it then creates new untouchable unseeable unremoveable icon.. all goes away on fresh reboot...also considering setting up tint2 if i can flippin figure it out.
[21:49] <silverarrow> you have tried all kinds of key combos?
[21:49] <easygoing> excuse me? i dont understand yor statement.
[21:49] <silverarrow> ctrl-alt-F4, ....
[21:50] <silverarrow> maybe it can be unlocked
[21:51] <silverarrow> a tricky one you have there
[21:52] <silverarrow> if you press ctrl alt F1 you should get a terminal
[21:52] <silverarrow> or black screen
[21:52] <silverarrow> then "sudo service lxdm restart" should get you in with out reboot
[23:11] <l33_> hi
[23:12] <phillw> hi l33_
[23:18] <l33_> hi ühillw
[23:18] <l33_> hi phillw
[23:19] <l33_> 2 beers too much here ;)
[23:21] <phillw> nothing wrong with that, if you prefer a chill out, hop over to #lubuntu-offtopic. It is not logged, so we can chat offtopic :)
[23:23] <l33_> didnt know that chan
[23:34] <wxl> hey phillw remember this letter/ https://lists.launchpad.net/lubuntu-desktop/msg04942.html
[23:34] <ikr111> when I open a window with a keyboard shortcut it goes straight to the background (behind other windows), Any ideas?
[23:35] <phillw> wxl: did they do a PPC version in the end?
[23:35] <wxl> well not in the final but that funky one is still there
[23:36] <wxl> i figured out the problem. purdy easy, really.
[23:36] <wxl> there was a lively ppc discussion here earlier
[23:37] <wxl> suffice it to say i think there's certainly a desire for lubuntu ppc
[23:37] <wxl> more so than with bloatware, i mean ubuntu
[23:37] <phillw> wxl: is still a generic ubuntu issue, or just lubuntu?
[23:37] <wxl> THAT problem is an ubuntu issue from what i can tell
[23:37] <wxl> sources.list has http://mirror instead of http://ports.ubuntu.com
[23:38] <wxl> editing sources.list or /etc/hosts (pointing mirror to ports.ubuntu.com) fixes it
[23:40] <phillw> I can flag it back up to qa team if it has not been corrected. Could you update the log & I'll make the qa / build team aware of it. Also if you have a fix that can be applied to lubuntu iso that can be added at installation time I can add it tou our FAQ area until it gets fixed upstream.
[23:41] <wxl> phillw: kewl, where's the log at again?
[23:42] <phillw> you had it pointing to bug 756719 > in Launchpad.
[23:42] <phillw> They have it has fix released?
[23:42] <wxl> ah so you mean just add a comment
[23:42] <wxl> well yeah they do and i left a comment that it wasn't.. no response.
[23:43] <phillw> is this for Oneric?
[23:43] <wxl> yep
[23:45] <phillw> would you please email Colin directly? I can do it, but as I do not have access to a PPC it would be better for you to contact him directly. Colin is not scary, he's a really nice guy.
[23:45] <wxl> k
[23:46] <phillw> use his cjwatson@canonical.com  address, and yes, you can say I sent you :P
[23:47] <wxl> does lubuntu inheriently lack smb support?
[23:48] <wxl> oh nevermind figured it out
[23:48] <wxl> weird i can't use go > network shares but smb://server works
[23:52] <phillw> samba should be automatic with pcmanfm
[23:54] <phillw> network shares is a diffirent app. Please raise a bug against it if it is not working. bugs not reported only ever get fixed by chance :)
[23:54] <wxl> :D
[23:55] <phillw> in the past we had pyneighbourhood, but that wouldn't "play' either, so pcman added it to pcmanfm to save grief :) (He's a darn good guy).
[23:59] <wxl> grrr