[00:13] <Monsterwizard> sup
[00:45] <penguin42> right, time to go to bed and leave my other machine running 'klee' - although I think it's got stuck in a nasty pointless bit
[03:09] <Azelphur> http://xkcd.com/963/ rofl
[04:51] <MartijnVdS> Whoa @ google.com/nexus
[06:00] <knightwise> morning everyone
[06:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning everyone.
[06:24] <knightwise> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[07:03] <dwatkins> mornin
[07:09] <diplo> Morning
[07:27] <DJones> Morning anybody heard of www.backify.com ? They're offering 500Gb of backup for free, just seems to be backup space rather than a dropbox like service for free, but 500Gb seems to good to be true
[07:29] <MartijnVdS> "free"? what's the catch?
[07:29] <MartijnVdS> i.e. how do they make their money?
[07:29] <DJones> My thoughts exactly
[07:30] <DJones> They also offer paid accounts, so must be using this a loss leader to get people to sign up for the next account up that includes a dropbox like service
[07:35] <daubers> Morning
[07:36] <MartijnVdS> \o daubster
[07:36] <daubers> A question: Is there any music player program that can figure out how much typing/other stuff I do with given music and use that information to play me music that I'm more productive too?
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> daubers: I don't think there is one a the moment, but it won't be hard to write
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> daubers: you'll need to catch D-Bus "Now playing" events from (say) banshee
[07:37] <daubers> Hmmm....
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> and X keystrokes (easy)
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> log number of keystrokes to a file on every song change
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> feed to graphing tool
[07:38] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[07:41] <daubers> Might be a job for the train tomorrow
[07:41] <tonytiger> But how can you tell if they are useful keystrokes?
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> You can determine the currently active window
[07:41] <tonytiger> Also, do some tracks cause more errors than others (perhaps monitor the backspace events?)
[07:41] <MartijnVdS> if it's gvim, it's good
[07:42] <MartijnVdS> if it's chrome, it's slacking off
[07:42] <tonytiger> :)
[07:42] <daubers> if it's gvim, someones nicked my laptop
[07:42] <MartijnVdS> daubers: gemacs then
[07:42] <tonytiger> I have a lot of web apps to use :)
[07:42] <daubers> Is there not a way to ask chrome what the currently active tab is?
[07:42] <MartijnVdS> daubers: there must be, and there's the window title
[07:43] <daubers> (does zetigeist not do this in some way?)
[07:44] <DJones> Does update manager not ask for a password now to install updates, I've just been prompted for updates & clicking install updates didn't ask for a password
[07:46] <tonytiger> I spotted that too this morning
[07:47] <tonytiger> Must be a change in 11.10
[07:47] <DJones> Must admit it seems a bit of a security risk
[07:47] <AlanBell> I just clicked on install updates and it is asking me to authenticate
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> "update" hasn't needed a password since natty I think
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> maybe even maverick
[07:48] <AlanBell> so why did it just ask me?
[07:48] <MartijnVdS> "Install" asks for the password
[07:48] <DJones> Up until a few days ago, I've always needed a password
[07:53] <tonytiger> Maybe it's related to how long ago you authenticated?
[07:53] <selinuxium> Morning all   o/   :)
[07:56] <selinuxium> Under System Settings there is an Online Accounts app... Any idea what this connects to? You can set up gmail accounts but I have no idea what it effects...
[07:58] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:59] <DJones> tonytiger: Thats about all I can think
[08:04] <danfish> morning all
[08:04] <danfish> I'm having a strange problem - my laptop has started throwing up a MCE error message with the (pre-3) ubuntu kernel
[08:05] <danfish> but with the same numbered debian on, everything's OK
[08:05] <danfish> s/on/one
[08:05] <danfish> anyone know of how how I can compare the two kernels relatively easily
[08:06] <daubers> danfish: do a diff on the config files?
[08:07] <daubers> /boot/config-<something>
[08:07] <danfish> daubers: ah - ok. I'll give that a go.
[08:10] <DJones> How do you reply to tweets in gwibber, I can't find any way of replying, I can read tweets, send new tweets, but no way of replying/retweeting
[08:10] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:10] <DJones> Right, found it
[08:10] <bigcalm> How might I re-create a users' home directory using the skeleton dir?
[08:10] <bigcalm> Or would the best solution be to delete and re-add the user?
[08:14]  * daubers does like the Danse Macabre
[08:15] <DJones> bigcalm: Doesn't using the useradd command just copy what the skeleton directory contains or links to anyway
[08:16] <bigcalm> DJones: that's what I've ended up doing
[08:21] <aquarius> What's the best way of monitoring (and restarting if crashed) a daemon if you're on a headless box and the daemon is run as me, not as root?
[08:21] <aquarius> I don't really want to do anything "system-level"-ish like make an upstart job which gives away privileges
[08:22] <bigcalm> aquarius: you could use a script similar to botchk used by eggdrop bots
[08:22] <aquarius> at the moment I just run the daemon (rygel) out of my crontab with "@reboot rygel", but if it crashes it won't come back
[08:22] <gord> i was in a similar situation, ended up just making an upstart job that changed user before running the daemon
[08:23] <gord> messing about with cron was getting me nowhere
[08:23] <aquarius> I hate doing user stuff at system level :(
[08:24] <aquarius> I mean, i could just do "while true; do rygel; done" :)
[08:24] <aquarius> there's monit; I'm trying to work out if there's something better
[08:24] <aquarius> monit requires loads of config, too.
[08:25] <gord> would be so cool to have a per-user upstart
[08:25] <aquarius> it would indeed
[08:25] <aquarius> I asked keybuk for that and he laughed at me, so I don't think it's happening soon :(
[08:27] <MartijnVdS> aquarius: Maybe a per-user systemd!
[08:28] <aquarius> MartijnVdS, if I can just install systemd from apt without it being used as init, that might be doable, but how much config does it require?
[08:28] <gord> the other option is just to get a script run every minute on cron that stores the pid, checks to see if the pid still exists, if not, launches the software again. but that way is such a pain
[08:28] <aquarius> gord, exactly, that's why I don't really wanna do that; I was hoping for something where I can just do "monitor-this-job rygel" and it would Take Care Of All That
[08:32] <daubers> aquarius: I've done it before by running the job in the forground on another tty as the interpreter. So if the process dies, the tty dies, essentially relogs on as a given user and the program is run as their shell
[08:32] <daubers> Bit of a hacky bodge :)
[08:32] <aquarius> daubers, blimey, that sounds complex
[08:33] <daubers> aquarius: Quite easy to setup. Autologin in /etc/somethingy/ttyX, set the users shell in /etc/passwd
[08:34] <daubers> /etc/init/ttyX.conf
[08:34] <aquarius> ...chown all my video to that user, or make it a+rwx...
[08:34] <daubers> Well, yeah, that would be a problem in your case
[08:34] <daubers> small problem is that if it just keeps crashing it's not very good at logging stuff
[08:35] <gord> cograts, you seem to have invented the rube goldberg mechanism for restarting processes ;)
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> or you could just, like, fix the crasher bugs in the software?
[08:35] <daubers> gord: I was quite pleased with it at the time :)
[08:36] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: ok i'm sold, getting a ds411 :D
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: cool :)
[08:36] <aquarius> there's daemontools, I suppose
[08:36] <aquarius> but having to create folders with run files in them annoys me too :(
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> aquarius: isn't that a Windows FTP server?
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> no wait it's a virtual CD/DVD thing for Windows
[08:37] <MartijnVdS> http://www.daemon-tools.cc/eng/downloads :)
[08:37] <aquarius> daemontools, not daemon-tools :_)
[08:39] <JamesTait> Good morning, all. :)
[08:40] <bigcalm> A little knowledge is a bad thing. Kinda hosed my work station :D
[08:41] <popey> Morning all
[08:42] <MooDoo> morning
[08:42] <christel> good morning
[08:44] <daubers> o/ popey
[08:44] <bigcalm> Hello hello hello & hello :)
[08:45] <dogmatic69> o/
[09:13] <oimon> DJones: you thinking of trying that backify  thing?
[09:15] <oimon> i need to look into encfs for storing encrypted backups
[09:15] <oimon> i'm happy to backup my MP3 collection on a few of these sites,
[09:16] <DJones> oimon: It was somebody else that was asking about the backify thing, I just wondered if anybody had come across them
[09:16] <oimon> they only launched a week ago it seems
[09:16] <oimon> they could also be gone next week too :P
[09:17] <DJones> That doesn't sound promising
[09:18] <oimon> i have 50gb on my box.net account to use up first :)
[09:21] <DJones> Is that 50Gb free?
[09:22] <DJones> Or is that the business account
[09:23] <oimon> free
[09:23] <oimon> DJones: for touchpad users, although i read ios users are included recently too
[09:23] <DJones> Ah
[09:28] <FND> anyone using Tilda on 11.10? I can't get it to position flush to the left; it leaves a gap the width of the launcher dock
[09:31] <oimon> FND: try guake?
[09:31] <oimon> i thought tilda was a qt version
[09:32] <FND> oimon: Yakuake is the QT thing IIRC (it's been years... )
[09:32] <FND> I'd rather stick with Tilda if possible
[09:32] <oimon> i'm not using unity, sorry
[09:32] <FND> I guess I won't be for long either
[09:33] <hoover> morning all
[09:34] <bigcalm> Hi hoovie :)
[09:34] <oimon> FND: if unity could be moved to the bottom then you might not get that problem ;)
[09:34] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:34] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[09:36] <FND> oimon: I have other issues (e.g. no persistent attention/urgency flag indicator), so considering migrating to Arch + LXDE
[09:36] <oimon> wow that's a big difference
[09:36] <oimon> are you looking for gnome2 behaviour in a modern release?
[09:37] <smittix> Morning all
[09:37]  * smittix has been playing around with cheese.
[09:37] <gord> oh dear ;)
[09:37] <smittix> If only i could get the audio in sync with the video.
[09:37] <gord> pictures!
[09:38] <gord> seriously, we should have an ubuntu-uk cheese shots wall
[09:38] <smittix> heh
[09:38] <gord> everyone has to use the square filter thing, because that is the funniest
[09:38] <smittix> I was trying to do a bit of a screencast, for changing startup services in 11.10
[09:38] <deej1976> gnome-session-fallback, gnome-shell with gnome2 look
[09:38] <smittix> I like the "hulk" effect it makes me look like shrek
[09:38] <FND> oimon: basically, I live in the terminal+browser, so I just want the lightest WM possible - though without hassle (e.g. I also miss window list in Unity/Gnome-Shell)
[09:39] <FND> (I did consider just using XMonad on top of X, but that was too much hassle WRT status bars and activity notifications)
[09:39] <aquarius> FND, there isn't a good solution for this :( I use tilda too. It's really, really, really annoying
[09:40] <aquarius> FND, there's been an upstream bug about it for *ages*; tilda seems to be somewhat abandoned upstream :(
[09:40] <FND> aquarius: I guess we should file a bug?
[09:40] <FND> oh I see
[09:40] <FND> well, maybe I should use Guake then
[09:40] <aquarius> ah! no, wait
[09:40] <aquarius> I use guake and it has the problem and that's the abandoned upstream one :)
[09:40] <FND> haha
[09:40] <aquarius> so clearly both guake *and* tilda have the problem :)
[09:41] <FND> well, I can guess why (the Unity Launcher blocking screen estate) - though it seems to not affect regular windows
[09:42] <aquarius> FND, guake basically hardcodes a width of 100% :(
[09:42] <aquarius> windows are meant to adapt to it; the launcher is a dock.
[09:42] <oimon> FND: try xubuntu 11.10
[09:42] <FND> aquarius: that'd be fine with me, as I use 100% width in Tilda's settings
[09:42] <FND> ... if it worked ;)
[09:42] <smittix> http://www.comedytime.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/nsH6J.gif HEH!
[09:42] <aquarius> FND, yeah, but that's 100% width *less* any dock windows
[09:42] <aquarius> I'll bet money that the same problem would happen with a left-hand gnome panel
[09:42] <aquarius> it's poor coding :(
[09:43] <aquarius> I keep meaning to fix it and keep not getting a round tuit
[09:43] <FND> I would buy you a beer for that (though it would have to be remote; not planning to fly up there any time soon)
[09:44] <FND> oimon: I considered that, and might go for Xfce if LXDE turns out to be less than great - but I figured, if I drop the mainstream WM, I might as well give Arch a try in the process
[09:44] <aquarius> oimon, that's your answer? One drop-down terminal does lazy code which assumes that you haven't moved gnome-panel to the left and users should run a whole new OS? ;-)
[09:45] <oimon> xubuntu is the same os
[09:45] <FND> aquarius: to be fair, there's more context to oimon's suggestion; I hinted at ditching Unity above
[09:45] <oimon> arch doesn't actually exist, it's just what people say when they are annoyed by some small aspect of their current distro
[09:45] <oimon> *may be untrue
[09:46] <daubers> My IDE isn't psychic! I'm moving to arch!
[09:46] <bigcalm> o.O
[09:46] <FND> hah oimon
[09:46] <daubers> Seems to have the same ring as a lot of identi.ca messages I used to see
[09:46] <diplo> I keep meaning to try Arch but never have..
[09:47] <diplo> Really not happy with natty though
[09:47] <aquarius> FND, ah, I missed that you were contemplating moving to arch and lxde. Have fun with that :)
[09:47] <aquarius> what's a "persistent flag indicator"?
[09:47] <diplo> Maybe just debian testing
[09:47] <daubers> tbh, with natty I haven't really noticed much difference yet to how I have been working before
[09:47] <oimon> i've used linux as a casual and corporate user since the 90s and never seen gentoo or arch in the wild
[09:47] <FND> aquarius: remember the subtle blue triangle in the top-right corner on 11.04? see http://askubuntu.com/questions/66978/how-do-i-tell-when-a-window-demands-attention
[09:48] <FND> (btw, I stumbled across your http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/01/16/working-with-the-ubuntu-messaging-menu in the process - is there an update on that?)
[09:49] <daubers> My main blocker to productivity these days is a mix of warhammer and on demand TV
[09:50] <bigcalm> When backing up a system, what would you copy other than /home and /etc ?
[09:50] <FND> oimon: that might be the point; hipster linux...
[09:50] <bigcalm> !backup
[09:50] <lubotu3`> There are many ways to back your system up. Here's a few: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuplicityBackupHowto , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MondoMindi - See also !sbackup and !cloning
[09:50] <oimon> bigcalm: list of packages?
[09:51] <bigcalm> Could do, though I'm not so bothered by them
[09:51] <oimon> i gather oneconf is doing something like that soon/now
[09:52] <aquarius> FND, ah, that little triangle goes away? that's weird.
[09:52] <FND> oimon: well, it used to - now the triangle doesn't exist anymore
[09:52] <aquarius> FND, no update on the messaging menu stuff, I'm afraid; I haven't needed it since then :)
[09:52] <FND> s/oimon/aquarius/
[09:53] <FND> I see - thanks for the write-up either way
[09:54] <aquarius> FND, yeah, when I hit weird stuff I try and write it down :)
[09:55] <FND> that's an excellent policy
[09:55] <daubers> czajkowski: Job hunting again?
[09:55] <czajkowski> yes
[09:56] <czajkowski> also post office Site uk is awful to use
[09:56] <czajkowski> I want a contact us email address
[09:56] <czajkowski> nope doesnt exist
[09:56] <czajkowski> naturally
[09:56] <czajkowski> but I sent a letter to -ie which is saying I sent to USA
[09:56] <daubers> czajkowski: Contracting sucks
[09:57] <czajkowski> it's a long story and has made me rather pissed off
[09:57] <davmor2> morning all
[09:57] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[09:58]  * smittix taps MooDoo on the shoulder and legs it.
[09:59] <MooDoo> smittix: no one here but us chickens :)
[09:59] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[09:59] <MooDoo> well just caught that czajkowski that sucks :(
[10:00] <czajkowski> not as bad as turning down 3 jobs since I was in ther
[10:00] <czajkowski> and 1 that very morning s
[10:00] <czajkowski> so a bit sensative subject which am really not in the mood to deal with
[10:00] <MooDoo> czajkowski: hug
[10:01] <davmor2> morning MooDoo
[10:01] <MooDoo> davmor2: ayup lad, hows it hanging
[10:02] <davmor2> MooDoo: sound as pound on the ground all  around
[10:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: groovy baby
[10:03] <MooDoo> czajkowski: just another thing to add to the "reasons why i'm pissed off" list eh! :(
[10:04] <czajkowski> yp
[10:08] <FND> :wq
[10:08] <FND> oops, not Vim
[10:09] <bigcalm> :D
[10:10] <czajkowski> BigRedS: BEHAVE
[10:10] <gord> bigcalm, cause more trouble!
[10:10] <gord> BigRedS, even
[10:10] <gord> or bigcalm whatever
[10:10] <bigcalm> Bwuhahaha
[10:11] <gord> if i ran irc, no one would be allowed to share the same three characters in a name
[10:11] <bigcalm> I was trying to work out what BigRedS had done
[10:13] <bigcalm> I was just grinning
[10:15] <daubers> gord: Can we not just start using wildcards?
[10:17] <davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski Language :D
[10:17] <gord> daubers, good luck talking to one of the alans with that
[10:17] <MooDoo> davmor2: up ya b** :)
[10:17] <davmor2> MooDoo: I don't have a bob
[10:18] <MooDoo> davmor2: smart a*se
[10:19] <davmor2> Man now I got to go look up words to see what fit
[10:19] <MooDoo> davmor2: not in the mood, stop being so cheery
[10:19] <dogmatic69> could anyone recommend a program for checking what is using disk space from terminal?
[10:19]  * Gary tickles czajkowski 
[10:19] <dogmatic69> something like size per folder
[10:19] <diplo> du -sh /dir/ ?
[10:20] <diplo> du -h even
[10:20] <davmor2> MooDoo: but you need to be, we need to pick on czajkowski in a nice way to keep her in a pleasant mood so she can get another job
[10:21] <davmor2> czajkowski: although have you though that walking into the interview PO would work,  give me the job or I rip you ears off
[10:21] <davmor2> just a thought
[10:22] <MooDoo> davmor2: that's one of the reasons i'm in a bad mood, so many good people wanting to work, but not getting the chance
[10:25] <davmor2> MooDoo: czajkowski will get another job guaranteed cause she doesn't give up like a lot of people, so I got every faith her and her abilities, till then we need to be strong and make her life feel as normal as possibly.... czajkowski prod :)
[10:25] <MooDoo> czajkowski: prod
[10:25] <dogmatic69> could anyone recommend a program for checking what is using disk space from terminal?
[10:26] <dogmatic69> need to find out why a server is full
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: df
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: start from /:
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> cd /
[10:26] <MartijnVdS> df -h *
[10:26] <davmor2> dogmatic69: du -sh or df -h
[10:26] <MooDoo> davmor2: i suppose we could create a site giveczajkowskiajob.com and edit it will a gazillion testimonials :D
[10:26] <dogmatic69> i was using df -h
[10:27] <davmor2> MooDoo: no shes gotten used to picking on the agencies till they give her work now ;)
[10:28] <MooDoo> hehe
[10:28] <czajkowski> never got work via agencies
[10:28] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: df -h always shows the whole drive regardless of where i am
[10:28] <czajkowski> I applied directly to all companies
[10:28] <davmor2> czajkowski: yeap but picking on the agencies is fun
[10:28] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: uhr, you need "du -sh"
[10:28] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: sorry, one letter off: )
[10:29] <dogmatic69> thanks
[10:29] <dogmatic69> du -sh in / is slow :/
[10:29] <MooDoo> dogmatic69: yeah but it's doing a whole disk calculation
[10:29] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: of course, it goes over the entire disks, adding up file sizes
[10:29] <dogmatic69> and then it just says the whole amount, not per folder
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: du -sh * in /
[10:30] <MooDoo> du -h from / will show you per folder
[10:30] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: should tell you per folder
[10:30] <dogmatic69> MooDoo: that seems to be in the right direction.
[10:32] <dogmatic69> just need something like http://bin.cakephp.org/
[10:32] <dogmatic69> du -h is showing every single folder
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: cd / ; du -sh *
[10:32] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: then drill down -> cd largest_dir; du -sh *
[10:33] <dogmatic69> \o/
[10:33] <dogmatic69> thanks all
[10:34] <dogmatic69> what is var/spool?
[10:34] <dogmatic69> its using 4GIG of my 8GIG drive :/
[10:34] <bigcalm> It holds mail for one
[10:34] <dogmatic69> :O
[10:34] <dogmatic69> dont even have a mail server
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> mail, cronjobs
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: which directory in /var/spool?
[10:35] <dogmatic69> postfix
[10:35] <MartijnVdS> so you DO have a mail server: postfix
[10:35] <dogmatic69> well, clearly
[10:35] <dogmatic69> its not used
[10:35] <davmor2> dogmatic69: if you want more indepth info do du --help,  -a prints info for all files
[10:35] <dogmatic69> its postfix/maildrop that is 3.6GIG
[10:35] <bigcalm> Right. Fresh install of 11.10 and the workstation still reboots when I tell it to shutdown. I guess the machine itself might be at fault :(
[10:36] <dogmatic69> could i just empty out that dir?
[10:36] <dogmatic69> it just seems to have lots like : 4.0K	21DCA27DA1
[10:36] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: try "mailq"
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> it'll show you what's trying to send the mail
[10:37] <dogmatic69> hold on, server is complaining about the last command
[10:37] <MartijnVdS> (so you can prevent this from happening again)
[10:37] <davmor2> bigcalm: that's odd indeed, shutsdown all of my machines
[10:37] <bigcalm> My workstation is the only one that still reboots itself
[10:38] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: just has BEE032D0C2      382 Wed Aug 31 01:27:01  ubuntu /n  ubuntu
[10:38] <dogmatic69> lots of them obviously
[10:38] <bigcalm> It did it while I was still on 11.04. But only part way though the year. I can't remember when it started
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: you could configure postfix properly, then you'd get these things mailed daily
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> (or however often this happens)
[10:39] <davmor2> bigcalm: could be a short on the board when was the last time you gave it a service?  I try and give mine a good clean down every six months if I can
[10:39] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: will try
[10:39] <dogmatic69> should clear them out first
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: man postqueue
[10:39] <bigcalm> Been a wee while I guess
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that's for managing / flushing / purging the queue
[10:40] <bigcalm> davmor2: will give it some TLC at the weekend
[10:40] <dogmatic69> thanks
[10:41] <davmor2> bigcalm: might fix it who knows :)
[10:42] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: looks like postqueue -f actually tries to send the mail? do  you know of an option to just delete everything
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: there is one.. I don't know which one
[10:42] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it's in the manual
[10:43] <dogmatic69> found a blog saying rm /var/spool/mail dir
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> no that's different
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> postsuper -d ALL deferred
[10:43] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: ^
[10:44] <dogmatic69> ah
[10:45] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: removed the deferred and it did something...
[10:45] <dogmatic69> postsuper: Deleted: 100530 messages
[10:45] <dogmatic69> :D
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> that's a lot
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> I'd start figuring out where they come from
[10:45] <MartijnVdS> must be some cron job sending them
[10:45] <dogmatic69> ye
[10:46] <dogmatic69> http://bin.cakephp.org/view/716651808
[10:46] <dogmatic69> before / after
[10:47] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: now start tail -f /var/log/mail.log to see what's mailing you so often; )
[10:47] <dogmatic69> no mail.log
[11:02] <sgordon> Afternoon. Quick bit of Qemu help if poss?
[11:04] <bigcalm> Yikes, afternoon already
[11:09] <bigcalm> Any 11.10 users here who also have spotify, what's your deb line in /etc/apt/sources.list ?
[11:09] <sgordon> Hmm, the qemu option to create a samba share on the host (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/QEMU#Samba) I just can't get working
[11:10] <smittix> bigcalm: I'm sure im using the same for natty
[11:10] <smittix> Do you want that line?
[11:10] <sgordon> But created a static share on the host (plain share) and it's ok. must be the bit on that link that says "It seems that there is an incompatibility with Samba 3.x. and some versions of QEMU."
[11:10] <sgordon> ha
[11:10] <bigcalm> Yes please
[11:11] <smittix> bigcalm: deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free
[11:11] <bigcalm> I have: deb http://repository.spotify.com stable non-free
[11:11] <bigcalm> But it's not working
[11:11] <smittix> :/
[11:11] <smittix> What's it saying?
[11:11] <bigcalm> From sudo apt-get update:
[11:11] <bigcalm> W: Failed to fetch http://repository.spotify.com/dists/stable/InRelease  Unable to find expected entry 'non-free/source/Sources' in Release file (Wrong sources.list entry or malformed file)
[11:15] <smittix> does apt-get install info give you any output?
[11:15] <bigcalm> iain@snafu:~$ sudo apt-get install spotify-client-qt
[11:15] <bigcalm> Reading package lists... Done
[11:15] <bigcalm> Building dependency tree
[11:15] <bigcalm> Reading state information... Done
[11:15] <bigcalm> E: Unable to locate package spotify-client-qt
[11:16] <bigcalm> Pardon the spam
[11:16] <smittix> weird
[11:17] <smittix> I have just noticed I have the deb line but no client, must have not installed it on this laptop yet. But when trying I get the same results.
[11:17] <bigcalm> :'(
[11:18] <bigcalm> Don't really want to run it in wine
[11:18] <bigcalm> May have to though
[11:18] <smittix> Yeah until something is sorted.
[11:19] <smittix> can you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list for me?
[11:19] <bigcalm> Sure
[11:20] <smittix> ta
[11:20] <bigcalm> What cli to paste bin app do people use?
[11:21] <DJones> !pastebinit
[11:21] <lubotu3`> pastebinit is the command-line equivalent of !pastebin - Command output, or other text can be redirected to pastebinit, which then reports an URL containing the output - To use pastebinit, install the « pastebinit » package from a package manager - Simple usage: command | pastebinit -b http://paste.ubuntu.com
[11:21] <bigcalm> Ta
[11:21] <bigcalm> Ah, it's installed :)
[11:21] <smittix> heh
[11:21] <bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/713090/
[11:22] <smittix> bigcalm: Comment out the src line for spotify and try again.
[11:23] <smittix> or remove it completely
[11:24] <bigcalm> -o/
[11:24] <bigcalm> Bloody synergy not sending keys correctly
[11:24] <smittix> Working
[11:24] <bigcalm> Yes
[11:24] <smittix> ?
[11:24] <smittix> Coolio
[11:24] <smittix> Now I will go and do the same heh
[11:29]  * davmor2 gets up and switches the light on
[11:30] <MooDoo> davmor2: I'M MELTING!!!!
[11:31] <davmor2> bigcalm: just use rhythmbox and listen to absolute80's :P
[11:32] <davmor2> MooDoo: why I didn't pour water on you :P
[11:32] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:33] <MooDoo> davmor2: ok ok another quote "Bright light, Bright Light"
[11:33] <bigcalm> I've taken to listening to a mix of '80s' and 'electronic' on the Spotify 'radio' page
[11:33] <davmor2> MooDoo: you're not cute and cuddly or called gizmo
[11:34] <davmor2> bigcalm: but the best electronic is in the 80's surely the 2 just play the same classy music ;)
[11:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: I got fed up of the frequency of the adverts on Absolute 80s :(
[11:35]  * DJones takes a baseball & goes looking for indescribable person who smashed his wifes car window & stole her bag & purse
[11:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: understandable :)
[11:35] <DJones> s/baseball/baseball bat
[11:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: And I pay for advert free Spotify *shrug*
[11:35] <bigcalm> Still like Absolute80s :)
[11:36] <davmor2> bigcalm: makes sense then,  I just bought a dab radio to save on the bandwidth :)
[11:37] <selinuxium> Under System Settings there is an Online Accounts app... Any idea what this connects to? You can set up gmail accounts but I have no idea what it effects...
[11:38] <MooDoo> davmor2: i so am cute and cuddly, just as czajkowski :)
[11:38] <czajkowski> selinuxium: oi where were you last week
[11:38] <MooDoo> davmor2: s/as/ask
[11:39] <davmor2> czajkowski: hiding from you're abuse obviously :)
[11:39] <davmor2> MooDoo: thanks for clarifying I thought you were making czajkowski out to be cute and cuddly ;)
[11:39] <davmor2> 5
[11:39] <davmor2> 4
[11:39] <davmor2> 3
[11:40] <davmor2> 2
[11:40] <davmor2> 1......
[11:40] <czajkowski> am not in the mood
[11:40] <davmor2> MooDoo: ^ see proof czajkowski isn't on form
[11:42] <selinuxium> czajkowski, I had my reasons... :) Really wanted to be there..
[11:42] <czajkowski> tis ok
[11:42] <czajkowski> 1 more month and am here a year
[11:42] <czajkowski> we can celebrate that shall we :p
[11:43] <MooDoo> yay
[11:43] <MooDoo> party at czajkowski house
[11:43] <czajkowski> eh no
[11:43] <MooDoo> :)
[11:45] <smittix> bigcalm: I found an artist called FrankMusik which is pretty good
[11:45] <davmor2> MooDoo: party at cask for czajkowski is more realistic
[11:46] <czajkowski> Kjs is nicer
[11:46] <czajkowski> doesnt' get as hot
[11:47] <MooDoo> davmor2: ah where ever you go i'll probably not make it :( pah!
[11:48] <davmor2> czajkowski: I don't care I don't drink :D
[11:49]  * popey notes the air con was broken at the cask, which is why it was so hot
[11:50] <czajkowski> aye last few times it's been similar and not nearly as packed
[11:50] <czajkowski> doesnt help the seats are heated
[11:50] <czajkowski> but it's a nice pub and has lovely beers
[11:50] <davmor2> czajkowski: and the burgers are good
[11:51] <czajkowski> yup
[11:53] <MooDoo> hmmm burgers
[11:54] <czajkowski> with bacon on top
[11:54] <davmor2> see that peeked MooDoo's interest
[11:54] <MooDoo> i'm a foody
[11:57] <Seeker`> What kernel does 11.10 run?
[11:57] <bigcalm> 3.0.0-12-generic
[11:59] <davmor2> Seeker`: I'm going with a linux kernel ;)
[12:05]  * daubers is particularly grumpy today for reasons unknown
[12:06]  * popey tickles daubers 
[12:08] <ikonia> popey: just realised it's easy to talk to you where than silly web applications
[12:09] <ikonia> discuss
[12:10] <Seeker`> davmor2: hah. hah. hah.
[12:10]  * Seeker` fails at parsing ikonia's message
[12:10] <popey> :D
[12:10] <Seeker`> bigcalm: thanks
[12:11] <ikonia> Seeker`: let me send you the decrypter tool to crack the code
[12:11] <popey> Here's the URL:- Facebook.com
[12:11] <ikonia> let me also correct my crappy typing
[12:11] <ikonia> popey: ssshhhhh, that's the code breaker
[12:11] <popey> oops
[12:11] <ikonia> it's the enigma machine website
[12:11]  * ikonia moves to bebo
[12:12] <ikonia> popey: so you really think there is a visual difference ?
[12:12] <popey> yes
[12:12] <ikonia> ok, you've sold me, I'm going to the apple shop in an hour or two anyway, I'll do a back to back
[12:12] <ikonia> I need to know now
[12:12] <popey> haha
[12:12] <ikonia> I liked it better when I had a degree of confidence in my head
[12:12] <popey> browsing is faster, email is faster, springboard is snappier
[12:12] <ikonia> now I don't
[12:13] <Seeker`> 4s?
[12:13] <ikonia> popey: that's not what I want to hear
[12:13] <popey> ya
[12:13] <ikonia> Seeker`: going to pickup the new mbp
[12:13] <Seeker`> \o/
[12:13] <Seeker`> same as mine?
[12:13] <ikonia> yes
[12:13] <Seeker`> \o/
[12:13] <ikonia> finally caved in
[12:13] <Seeker`> hehe
[12:13] <gord> i hear ice-cream sandwich is great, first i thought people were just bragging about their lunch
[12:13] <popey> :D
[12:13] <Seeker`> queue apple press conference in....5 hours? :P
[12:13] <ikonia> wrote a letter to apple yesterday saying "WHERE IS THE NEW MAC PRO !!! I WISH TO SPEND MONEY"
[12:14] <ikonia> Seeker`: totally, no less than 14 hours
[12:14] <ikonia> no more sorry
[12:14] <bigcalm> Has the Nexus Prime (or whatever it's called now) been released?
[12:14] <gord> surely its nexus three by now?
[12:14] <gord> well i guess it was S instead of 2... what does S mean again?
[12:14] <bigcalm> 3.5 or 4?
[12:15] <oimon> you mean galaxy nexus?
[12:15] <selinuxium> Samsung Nexus?  Not yet...
[12:15] <bigcalm> Right, so what is the new Nexus handset being made by Samsung called?
[12:16] <oimon> galaxy nexus
[12:16] <oimon> running android 4.0
[12:16] <Seeker`> ikonia: rumours that the MBP refresh will be this month, but not expecting more than a processor bump
[12:17] <oimon> Seeker`: i heard they are laser etching a portrait of jobs onto each one
[12:17] <selinuxium> oimon, November... http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/samsung-galaxy-nexus-with-android-4-0-official-1034837
[12:18] <oimon> didn't get much from than tron-esque video about android 4.0 though
[12:18] <DJones> bigcalm: I thought from previous speculation that the Nexus would bear the Galaxy S2, but looking at this review, it doesn't quite beat it http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42623/galaxy-nexus-vs-samsung-galaxy-s-2
[12:19] <ikonia> Seeker`: told you !!!!
[12:19] <ikonia> the moment I press "buy"
[12:19] <bigcalm> Oh hum :S
[12:20] <Seeker`> :P
[12:20] <bigcalm> Well, won't be getting a new handset until April, but it would be nice to know what I might be able to get :)
[12:20] <Seeker`> Latest news is that "new model numbers are starting to appear" whatever that means
[12:20] <Seeker`> like I said, rumour is that it'll be using some new intel processors, not much more though
[12:20] <DJones> I'd picked out the S2 as my next one, then thought the Nexus would be better, but having 2nd thoughts now
[12:21] <oimon> do they have the same screen size?
[12:21] <Seeker`> http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=132093
[12:21] <Seeker`> ikonia: ^
[12:21] <ikonia> nooooooooooooooooooo
[12:21] <ikonia> I don't care really
[12:21] <DJones> oimon: Nexus blows the S2 out of the water for screen size, but from that review is slower
[12:21] <ikonia> I just want the Mac Pro to be released
[12:22] <oimon> s2 is rather big
[12:22] <oimon> i guess the new galaxy nexus doesn't need real buttons though, hence, bigger screen
[12:23] <DJones> I wouldn't notice the size of the S2, seems slighlty smaller than the Desire HD I've got now anyway
[12:24] <oimon> s2 is bigger than the desire
[12:24] <DJones> oimon: Screen size itself is supposed to be a fraction smaller looking at this http://bigphonefight.com/samsung-galaxy-s2-32gb-vs-htc-desire-hd-review
[12:25] <popey> ikonia: colour on the 4s camera is much better
[12:25] <oimon> nexus doesn't have expandable storage? massive fail if true
[12:25] <ikonia> popey: making a note for my back to backs
[12:25] <oimon> DJones: sorry i forgot the HD is much bigger than the desire
[12:25] <popey> ikonia: just uploading a pic now...
[12:26] <DJones> oimon: Yes, a fair bit bigger, I don't notice its bigger than previous phones though, its still a comfortable hand holding size
[12:27] <popey> ikonia: http://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/126635208400322560/photo/1
[12:27] <popey> :D
[12:28] <ikonia> popey: it's sharper
[12:28] <ikonia> right I'm off to the apple store
[12:28] <ikonia> laters
[12:29] <Seeker`> ikonia: have fun
[12:30] <oimon> every new android iteration gets a bit closer to cyanogen :P
[12:31] <popey> heh
[12:31] <davmor2> oimon: but every new android release and cyanogen improves that bit more too :D
[12:31] <oimon> yep. mint vs ubuntu should be like that too, but doesn't really work taht way in practice
[12:32] <oimon> i can't really see much that mint improve on
[12:33] <DJones> I don't think mint should be compared with ubuntu as much now since they moved to Debian as their base system
[12:33] <oimon> not exclusively, surely? i thought they were trying both out, hence "mint debian" and mint (ubuntu).
[12:34]  * oimon checks
[12:35] <oimon> Linux Mint 11 is based on Ubuntu 11.04. 
[12:37] <oimon> i notice they raise a decent amount in sponsorship/donations.
[12:37] <DJones> I thought they'd completely changed to a debian base instead of ubuntu from 11.04 ish, but looks like they've forked Mint, one side still ubuntu, the other debian based
[12:37] <tonytiger> Leaving two wafer thin Mints
[12:37] <oimon> bah-dum chish
[12:39] <DJones> Heh, seems like the debian edition is debian testing + mint on top giving it a rolling release, rather than the 6 monthly updates of ubuntu
[12:39] <czajkowski> plan B and C have kicked off :)
[12:40] <MooDoo> czajkowski: b and c?
[12:41] <czajkowski> be patient
[12:42] <siya> Did a dist upgrade a while back and my path variable seems to have changed
[12:42] <tonytiger> czajkowski: nice blog post about job hunting BTW. Tallies with my experience of on-line recruitment
[12:42] <siya> ring any bells w anyone?
[12:42] <siya> how to correct it? Nothing in ~/.bashrc about path for me
[12:42] <czajkowski> tonytiger: cheers
[12:42] <czajkowski> I'll do an update
[12:43] <czajkowski> as I found out I didnt get a job by logging into one syste last week
[12:43] <czajkowski> no email
[12:43] <czajkowski> just update the system
[12:43] <czajkowski> >:(
[12:44] <tonytiger> I don't think job sites are much use, apart from helping you identify companies you might want to work for. I've never had anything other than silence or automated PFO e-mails from them.
[12:51] <oimon> siya: check /etc/environment file
[12:53] <smittix> I need some Ubuntu stickers
[12:53] <MooDoo> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=718
[12:53] <MooDoo> go there smittix :)
[12:56] <siya> oimon, I did and that looks fine
[12:56] <bigcalm> Where does gpodder keep its settings?
[12:56] <siya> for some reason my profile doesn't get that that but only a very minimalistic path
[12:57] <siya> djerk@djerk-nsc:~$ cat /etc/environment
[12:57] <siya> PATH="/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games"
[12:57] <siya> djerk@djerk-nsc:~$ echo $PATH
[12:57] <siya> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin
[12:57] <bigcalm> .config/gpodder, hazar
[12:58] <oimon> type source /etc/environment and repeat the echo command
[13:00] <smittix> MooDoo: Ta, Quite cheap too
[13:01] <MooDoo> smittix: no probs
[13:01] <siya> oimon, thnx that fixed it for this session. However what about when i reboot?
[13:02] <oimon> not sure what's happening. however .bashrc or .bash_profile would be a good place to override settings. also see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnvironmentVariables
[13:02] <CaMason> hi guys. I can't upgrade to Oneiric - I get: "404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.180 80]"
[13:03] <bigcalm> CaMason: try chaning your software sources to Main Server via the Update Manager
[13:03] <CaMason> ok, it was set to UK server
[13:04] <bigcalm> I've had hit and miss results with the UK server. Mostly it's just very slow
[13:04] <CaMason> same issue :'(
[13:04] <CaMason> 404  Not Found [IP: 91.189.92.188 80], different IP this time
[13:04] <bigcalm> That's now an issue I've had before. Can anybody else help?
[13:05] <oimon> are you behind a proxy?
[13:05] <CaMason> no
[13:05] <oimon> worth a try :)
[13:06] <oimon> http://91.189.92.188/ shows sucess in a browser for me
[13:06] <CaMason> same here
[13:06] <CaMason> curl shows it fine also
[13:07] <bigcalm> Do you get the same error trying to upgrade from the cli?
[13:08] <CaMason> this is from CLI (do-dist-upgrade)
[13:08] <CaMason> it's trying to GET `/ubuntu/dists/oneiric-proposed/main/dist-upgrader-all/0.152.25.1/oneiric.tar.gz.gpg`
[13:10] <CaMason> any thoughts why it's looking at 'proposed' ?
[13:12] <bigcalm> Where you using 11.10 before release?
[13:13] <CaMason> nope. 11.04 on here
[13:13] <bigcalm> Same as me on 2 machines, neither with that issue :(
[13:15] <oimon> oh no, jimmy wales banners are back on wikipedia!
[13:18] <Joeb454> CaMason: if you're doing an upgrade, did you have proposed enabled on your previous install?
[13:18] <CaMason> no, never have
[13:21] <CaMason> http://91.189.90.132/meta-release is pointing to a UpgradeTool that is 404
[13:22] <CaMason> "http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric-proposed/main/dist-upgrader-all/0.152.25.1/oneiric.tar.gz" does not exist
[13:25] <CaMason> basically, it looks like 'http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/meta-release' is wrong
[13:29] <oimon> CaMason: yeah, checking http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric-proposed/main/dist-upgrader-all/ doesn't show a .1
[13:29] <CaMason> precisely
[13:29] <oimon> it should use the symbolic link to current
[13:32] <oimon> CaMason: can you edit /var/lib/update-manager/meta-release by hand?
[13:33] <CaMason> done - upgrade is progressing now. Still, that's a dirty fix
[13:36] <oimon> yeah, worth reporting on launchpad
[13:37] <Laney> it is known
[13:55] <Laney> fixed?
[14:11] <gord> decided to turn the revo into a makeshift team fortress 2 server, should be a fun experiment :)
[14:12] <popey> to take to UDS?
[14:12] <gord> yeah
[14:13] <popey> :D
[14:14] <gord> wondering if the revo will cut it, i figure these servers are mostly ram limited
[14:14] <gord> revo ram is cheep
[14:14] <popey> if I was going I'd have brought one of my revos as a minecraft server :D
[14:15] <davmor2> gord: of course it will, I'm sure
[14:18] <Seeker`> :O popey is my friend
[14:22] <popey> lies
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> Popey has friends?!
[14:23] <popey> lies
[14:23]  * bigcalm flops
[14:24]  * gord flips
[14:24]  * popey flaps
[14:26]  * davmor2 fails...... at finding a fl*ps that hasn't already been taken
[14:26] <shauno> popey: I gotta ask .. 4S? or did you cave to peer pressure ;)
[14:26] <gord> flex? es
[14:26] <popey> 4S
[14:26] <shauno> good lad :)
[14:26] <popey> hah
[14:27] <gord> what does the S stand for there?
[14:27] <gord> is S the new xp?
[14:27] <popey> Super
[14:27] <shauno> I've wondered that myself.  and how they can possibly plan on making sense after 4S
[14:27] <popey> Deluxe
[14:28] <shauno> popular rumour is that iphone5 comes next, but if it does, it'll be the 6th iphone
[14:28] <gord> not seen this one before... "W: Failed to fetch copy:/var/lib/apt/lists/partial/security.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_oneiric-security_multiverse_i18n_Index  Encountered a section with no Package: header"
[14:28] <davmor2> popey: apple are getting into paint now......oh deluxe
[14:28] <Azelphur> shauno: samsungs already teamed up with google and cyanogen to put out it's winner :P
[14:29] <shauno> yeah I saw that this morning
[14:29] <Azelphur> tis funny how far behind the iphone 4s's hardware is compared to androids ridiculously old offerings xD
[14:29] <Azelphur> I see blogs comparing it to the galaxy S2 and the galaxy S2 wins xD
[14:29] <shauno> I kinda rather there isn't a winner.  keeps life interesting
[14:30] <popey> i see lots of people rave about phones they dont have
[14:30] <popey> and bitch about phones they have never seen
[14:31] <popey> just buy a phone and get on with your life
[14:31] <shauno> it's not like I hold stock or anything.  as long as there's some sorta competition between them, we keep getting new toys \o/
[14:31] <daubers> \o/ toys
[14:32] <gord> i mostly just bitch about the phone i do have
[14:32] <gord> stupid thing
[14:32] <davmor2> Oh \o/ for new shinies
[14:33] <oimon> a friend was visiting the other day and said he wanted to ditch his iphone for cost reasons . he had never seen android before so i showed him. he was like WOW DUDE this is awesome. i said, how much u paying per month (£35-40). i said "hmm.. my android+ mrs oimon's android is less than that combined
[14:35] <bigcalm> People will like and dislike each handset for different reasons. I agree with popey that people get a phone and get on with life :)
[14:35] <daubers> The missus wants to ditch her iPhone. Silly thing keeps dropping calls/not ringing even though it rings on the other end/not sending SMS messages until she turns it off and on/removing her apps randomly/not sounding the alarm at the correct time
[14:35] <daubers> Having said that, for some reason my galaxy reboots randomly on occasion
[14:36] <bigcalm> daubers: put cm7.1 on it and have a happier life ;)
[14:36] <daubers> bigcalm: I might do at some point
[14:36] <daubers> See if sammy brings ICS to it first
[14:37] <oimon> the only weird issue i've noticed is that sense enabled htc woke itself up during the night on more than 2 ocassions. mine and mrs woke up at same time. never happened to me since CM7, while wife had it again last week
[14:37] <gord> i used to play wordfeud with a guy that worked nights, that was dumb. woke me up every day
[14:38] <oimon> by "woke up" i mean that the phone had been shutdown, turned off
[14:38]  * shauno didn't start this, honest
[14:38] <bigcalm> ICS will make it into CM in time. Now sure how many older handsets will be able to support it though
[14:38] <daubers> shauno: Heh :)
[14:39] <daubers> shauno: The one nice thing I used to think about the iPhone was that it looked/felt slightly nicer in the hand than most androids. Not sure that's true any more, but haven't seen a real 4S yet, so am holding back on that statement
[14:40] <shauno> I find it interesting that they're so polarizing
[14:40] <diplo> bigcalm, I expect it will, isn't the CM guy now working for Samsung
[14:41] <bigcalm> diplo: if I recall his tweets, aye
[14:42] <popey> davmor2: that is true
[14:42] <gord> http://uds.ubuntu.com/evening-programme/ woo lan party scheduled :)
[14:42] <popey> yet to hold an android phone which feels as nice in the hand as iphone
[14:42] <Seeker`> hmm, got a friend having problems with unity. How do you stop the app bar auto-hiding, and how do you create desktop shortcuts?
[14:42] <czajkowski> gord: install guideboook via market
[14:42] <czajkowski> and search ubuntu
[14:42] <czajkowski> uds stuff on there
[14:43] <gord> czajkowski, is that the thing we used at last uds? i didn't like that
[14:43] <bigcalm> When I hold my Nexus One, 'plastic' is never a term that springs to mind :)
[14:43] <czajkowski> gord: no idea wasnt at uds
[14:43] <daubers> popey: I do think that's a very subjective thing. I quite like the feel of my galaxy in the hand, but because the iPhone is heavier, it feels more substantial.... not sure why that makes any sense to me tbh :)
[14:43] <davmor2> Yay Beliour organic Ginger Beer ftw
[14:45]  * daubers doesn't understand ginger beer
[14:45] <davmor2> popey: I'll stick to my milestones I still can't get used to trying to type on touchscreen
[14:45] <daubers> ginger is nice, beer is nice, ginger beer is an abomination unto nuggan!
[14:45] <bigcalm> daubers: Crabbies ;)
[14:45] <davmor2> daubers: you haven't lived my friend
[14:46] <daubers> meh, give me a decent whiskey instead any day of the week
[14:46] <oimon> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=gnome_survey
[14:46] <davmor2> bigcalm: no this beats the socks off of it and it has no alcohol :)
[14:46] <bigcalm> Best kind of ginger is King's Ginger :D
[14:46] <davmor2> bigcalm: well very ver y very little
[14:47] <bigcalm> ?
[14:47] <Seeker`> anyone? how do you create desktop shortcuts in unity, and how do you stop the bar auto hiding?
[14:49] <davmor2> Seeker`: how do you mean create desktop shortcuts?  and you need to install ccsm and edit the unity section to stop the bar hiding
[14:52] <livingdaylight> I installed recordmydesktop, but can't find it in menu. Can someone please tell me where it is, how to launch it?
[14:52] <Seeker`> davmor2: create an icon on the desktop which launches something, say a terminal that ssh's in to another machine
[14:52] <Seeker`> and apparently ccsm causes unity to hang
[14:53] <popey> livingdaylight: what version of ubuntu?
[14:53] <popey> it's called "desktop recorder" i think
[14:53] <livingdaylight> popey, hi
[14:53] <livingdaylight> popey, still on 11.04
[14:54] <smittix> I like Xvidcap better
[14:54] <popey> i like my own script better :D
[14:55] <popey> records to h264+aac in mkv (which uploads direct to yootoob)
[14:55] <popey> and doesnt miss frames like xvidcap does
[14:55] <livingdaylight> popey i dl it from ubuntu software as recordmydesktop but find no entry or for desktop recorder
[14:55] <popey> or go out of sync like recordmydesktop
[14:55] <popey> livingdaylight: you probably wanted gtk-recordmydesktop
[14:55] <gord> is that the ffmpeg thing popey? because that works wonderfully
[14:56] <livingdaylight> smittix, Xvidcap is better? is that in reference to me?
[14:56] <popey> ya
[14:57] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/713057/
[14:57] <popey> thats what I do
[14:57] <livingdaylight> where is xvidcap
[14:57] <popey> livingdaylight: dont use xvidcap, its horribly broken
[14:57] <oimon> CaMason: i think laney fixed the meta-release page
[14:57] <Laney> mvo did
[14:57] <Laney> i just saw it happen
[14:57] <oimon> cool ..irc win :D
[14:57] <CaMason> :D
[14:58] <CaMason> Pici in main room was prodding some devs
[14:58] <CaMason> I did some investigation and found that meta-release was incorrect for some reason, and now it's changed
[14:58] <CaMason> huzzah!
[14:58] <livingdaylight> popey, where do you put that script?
[14:58] <popey> i put it in /usr/local/bin/
[14:58] <popey> but it might need newer / different ffmpeg and sox installed
[14:59] <smittix> livingdaylight: Yeah, Personally I prefer it :)
[14:59] <livingdaylight> in a folder?
[14:59] <livingdaylight> smittix, i'm not walking over the precipice with you :p
[14:59] <popey> livingdaylight: you can use gtk-recordmydesktop, you don't have to change just because me and smittix use other things :D
[15:00] <livingdaylight> popey, sure, just wondering what you do. Coz you do it alot :)
[15:00] <smittix> heh "popey: dont use xvidcap, its horribly brokem"
[15:00] <livingdaylight> I would've just used recordmydesktop because i wasn't aware of anything else, but can't find it. When I alt+F2 and launch recordmydesktop I get lookit
[15:01] <popey> livingdaylight: have you installed gtk-recordmydesktop?
[15:02] <livingdaylight> I do now
[15:02] <popey> you will now find it in the menu
[15:02] <livingdaylight> previously had recordmydesktop
[15:02] <livingdaylight> didn't realize that gtk- ..... was the front end
[15:05] <davmor2> Seeker`: so meeting so to create desktop shortcuts all apps have icons drag the icon for the launcher done, if you want it on the desktop itself then do it the way you used to iirc,  ccsm only tends to hang unity if you change the default gfx all you are doing is changing elements in unity that should be fine
[15:06] <Seeker`> davmor2: it seems that he has to use unity2d to get the autohide to work without crashing unity
[15:08] <livingdaylight> popey does the script going into /usr/local/bin need to go into a folder and what is the name?
[15:08] <popey> heh, you want to play with that?
[15:08] <popey>  /usr/local/bin is a folder
[15:09] <popey> just save that in there and call it "ffscreencast.sh" or something
[15:10] <popey> then you can call it from anywhere by just running ffscreencast.sh
[15:10] <popey> but you will need ffmpeg and sox at least installed
[15:10] <livingdaylight> ok, I'll see. Thanks
[15:10] <popey> feedback welcome
[15:10] <popey> I might convert it to an app one day
[15:11] <Seeker`> mmmh, fairly convinced my switch to windows / osx for day-to-day usage of computers was a wise one now, after seeing how long / how much fiddling it takes to get simple stuff working properly on linux
[15:16] <Seeker`> my friend has been using linux on and off for years, and is pretty bright, and it took him a couple of hours to work out how to stop application windows disappearing or the app launcher crashing if he tried to disable auto-hide - I can't see how ubuntu will solve bug #1 if something as simple as "maximise the window" doesn't work correctly out of the box
[15:16] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[15:17] <bigcalm> Why did lubotu3` just wake up?
[15:17] <oimon> Seeker mentioned a bug #
[15:18] <bigcalm> Ah, so I see. Didn't except it to activate on such a full line
[15:19] <skybinary> hello ubuntu-uk, is there an easy way to install my netgear usb wireless adapter (wna1100)?
[15:19] <popey> plug it in?
[15:20] <dogmatic69> :D
[15:20] <skybinary> heh! thanks popey
[15:20] <popey> tell us what happens
[15:20] <skybinary> ok, done that, but when i reboot puter locks up :(
[15:20] <popey> maybe install pastebinit, and run "dmesg | pastebinit"
[15:20] <popey> why reboot?
[15:21] <popey> ^^^ do that
[15:21] <skybinary> i adjusted my gfx
[15:21] <popey> well hang on, thats not your wifi stick then
[15:21] <skybinary> i took it out to boot up agin
[15:21] <skybinary> now its in it shows up as netger inc in lsusb
[15:22] <skybinary> but no nothing in lshw -C network
[15:22] <skybinary> popey, no but to be fair to me u asked why i rebooted
[15:23] <davmor2> Seeker`: what makes you think maximise windows don't work out of the box?   It works fine here.
[15:23] <popey> ahh
[15:23] <popey> sorry
[15:23] <popey> my bad
[15:23] <Seeker`> ok, maybe not quite out of the box
[15:24] <Seeker`> but it suggests isntallign nvidia drivers
[15:24] <Seeker`> and once you do so, it may hit a bug in them which causes windows to randomly go white
[15:25] <davmor2> Seeker`: so that is an issue with the nvidia binary driver that we can nothing about then.
[15:25] <Seeker`> apart from not telling people to install them if they break basic functionality like that?
[15:26] <popey> tried nouveau?
[15:26] <Seeker`> He's given up and is sticking to unity2d for now, which seems to be a little more stable
[15:30] <Seeker`> but the point is that I don't think any OS pops up with a message suggesting something to install within minutes of booting up for the first time with bugs as big as that
[15:30] <Seeker`> apart from Ubuntu (and maybe a few other *nix)
[15:39] <Seeker`> also, I have absolutely no idea where to report that sort of general problem to
[15:40] <davmor2> Seeker`: You would need to file that against nvidia, Ubuntu only offers the binary driver for install you can if you wish completely ignore it
[15:41] <Seeker`> davmor2: I don't mean that specific issue - there is already a 6 month old bug for that
[15:42] <Seeker`> I mean the general issue that the default for a new install is to suggest that a user install broken software which breaks simple functionality like having content in a window
[15:42] <Seeker`> the fact that there is actually a popup to suggest installing software that does that sort of thing is a bug in itself
[15:46] <Seeker`> and after spending 5 minutes seeing someone try to use unity, there seems to be basic functionality missing. Like being able to edit shortcuts to apps in the gui
[15:47] <davmor2> Seeker`: No it isn't!  Jockey only lets you know there are binary drivers that it couldn't shipped by default it doesn't tell you that you have to install the driver
[15:47] <davmor2> Seeker`: how do you mean? ref the editing
[15:48] <Seeker`> it doesn't tell you that you _have_ to install it. But the assumption is that if an OS points you to something just after you install it then its not going to stop you from being able to use your computer
[15:49] <popey> lolwut Seeker`
[15:49] <tonytiger> A fair assumption
[15:49] <popey> you're saying that because there is _one_ bug which is pain for some users, we should supress the installation of some software for _all_ users?
[15:49] <popey> if that were the case you might as well ship an empty CD
[15:50] <popey> no software is bug free
[15:50] <bigcalm> Even tonytiger's sound board?
[15:50] <Seeker`> davmor2: if you want to change the startup options for a shortcut in windows you right click and there is a gui where you can edit the target path, arguments to be passed to the program on launch. How do you edit the same options in unity?
[15:50] <popey> Seeker`: you edit the .desktop file manually
[15:50] <popey> Seeker`: there is a bug filed for that
[15:50] <popey> (I filed it)
[15:51] <bigcalm> It would be nice if there were user local .desktop files that overrode those in /usr/share/applications
[15:51] <bigcalm> Don't like editing system installed files
[15:52] <tonytiger> bigcalm: definitely not bug free
[15:52] <Seeker`> you don't have to disable it for everyone, but you work out which hardware (in this case) the bug applies to and not suggest it to them if it breaks it that badly
[15:52] <bigcalm> tonytiger: awww
[15:52] <popey> Seeker`: we already have code that does something like that
[15:53] <davmor2> Seeker`: And how would you propose that is done?  There are literally billions of combinations of hardware out there if it breaks for 1% that is good odds
[15:54] <popey> davmor2: pretty sure we have code paths that do it
[15:54] <popey> if device = XXX then popup "This device is known to be problematic"
[15:56] <oimon> going from 10.04 to 11.10 has meant that 1GB RAM is no longer enough :-\
[15:56] <Seeker`> it is probably better to not put the popup by default if there is a slim chance of it not working than to put it up and break stuff if you are at all interested in the usability of the system
[15:56] <popey> we have loads of bodges in the system already
[15:56] <popey> take a look at /etc/modprobe.d/*
[15:57] <Seeker`> either that or pay nvidia enough to actually create a decent set of drivers
[15:57] <davmor2> Seeker`: Oh thanks for offering we'll leave that one with you then?
[15:58] <popey> has the bug you're talking about been filed upstream to nvidia?
[15:58] <Seeker`> popey: afaik, yes
[15:59] <davmor2> popey: there is for issues across the board, how ever I've noted personally that sometimes it's x card with y motherboard that is the issue and x card in z mobo is fine  so there is that catch 22 situation
[15:59] <Seeker`> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/753144
[15:59] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 753144 in compiz (Ubuntu) "focused, or maximized windows blank" [High,Confirmed]
[16:00] <Seeker`> davmor2: the point I am trying to make is that bug 1 will never be solved while ubuntu suggests to people to install software that could make their system difficult to use properly
[16:00] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
[16:01] <popey> like banshee?
[16:01] <popey> or firefox
[16:01] <popey> or openoffice?
[16:01] <popey> s/open/libre/
[16:01] <ali1234> yes, like banshee
[16:01] <popey> all of those apps have quite serious bugs in them
[16:01] <davmor2> Seeker`: Yeah and my point is if it works for 99 out of 100 people then that is good odds
[16:02] <ali1234> i refer you to what i said the other day
[16:02] <popey> i see no upstream bug on that Seeker`
[16:02] <Seeker`> if you want a majority market share then 1% is still a _lot_ of people
[16:02] <davmor2> ali1234: rhythmbox FTW
[16:02] <ali1234> chasing market share is a terrible idea
[16:02] <popey> someone who experiences the bug should put together a report to nvidia
[16:02] <Seeker`> popey: comment # 143
[16:02] <popey> ahh, excellent
[16:03] <ali1234> btw i also get blank windows in the switcher
[16:04] <ali1234> bug 869628
[16:04] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 869628 in unity (Ubuntu) "White rectangles instead of window previews in switcher." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/869628
[16:04] <popey> ooo thats nice
[16:04] <davmor2> Seeker`: how many hardware issues do you think there are on a windows system?  And they have the bulk of the market still,  Apple uses CUPS the same as Ubuntu so not all printer work for them either so does that mean you should install Ubuntu Window or Ios on any device?  Or just only be able to buy a very specific set of hardware and pay over the odds for it?
[16:05] <ali1234> it happens every single time
[16:05] <Seeker`> I just don't see how Ubuntu can progress properly to a system that is seriously considered by the general public when the default applications or suggested actions cause breakage
[16:05] <ali1234> i think it happens if the windows are minimized, or on another workspace
[16:05] <ali1234> that is, any window that isn't currently visible, will not be made visible in the switcher
[16:05] <oimon> bug 747717
[16:05] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 747717 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "11.04 - opening too many windows causes new windows to render blank white" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747717
[16:05] <gord> Seeker`, because "the general public" will get a laptop, that happens to have ubuntu on it, that has known working hardware
[16:05] <ali1234> it will just be a blank space instead
[16:06] <ali1234> gord: known working hardware you say? would that be intel, nvidia or ati?
[16:06] <gord> whatever the OEM chooses to use
[16:06] <gord> oem's have money, that pays developers to fix issues
[16:06] <ali1234> lol
[16:07] <oimon> although intel drivers have been screwy latrely (2yrs) if i don't play games i usually get intel
[16:07] <Laney> hmm
[16:07] <ali1234> so ubuntu only supports OEM hardware now
[16:07] <Laney> maybe i should install windows for this lan party
[16:07] <ali1234> or rather, ubuntu doesn't support any hardware... that is up to the OEM
[16:07] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Intel drivers have been getting a lot better
[16:08] <Seeker`> davmor2: far fewer than with Ubuntu. And yes, MS can throw money at the problem to fix it, but I've seen far fewer edge case errors with a fresh windows install than ubuntu
[16:08] <davmor2> Seeker`: is that a fresh Windows install or the one that came with the all the drivers on that the manufacture ships?
[16:09] <ali1234> it's a clean install
[16:09] <ali1234> the shitty image that manufacturers ship is just as bad as ubuntu
[16:09] <ali1234> except it has slightly more annoying junk preinstalled
[16:10]  * popey hands out AOL CDs
[16:10] <davmor2> Seeker`: I can tell you from working in a repair shop that a clean install of windows is a nightmare till you get all the drivers installed and then it's not always great
[16:10] <ali1234> and yes, i am mad that ubuntu is now as bad or worse than windows
[16:10] <Seeker`> Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Ubuntu more widely used, but seeing the experiences of someone with a decent knowledge of computers and that is signfiicantly brighter than the national average I wouldn't consider it anywhere near ready for use in a lot of situations
[16:10] <ali1234> once again, users who are capable of contributing get the thin end of the wedge
[16:11] <Seeker`> davmor2: fresh windows install is usually usable, even without installing any extra drivers
[16:11] <ali1234> the fallback VGA drivers on windows work fine
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> Do we ship with the new graphics thing yet?
[16:12] <davmor2> Seeker`: gord has actually hit the nail on the head though the general public will buy the hardware with software already on and the hardware will likely be certified functioning
[16:12] <MartijnVdS> Wayland
[16:12] <Seeker`> The only problems I've had int he last few years with a windows isntall have been due to me screwing around with overclocking
[16:12] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: you can install wayland-demos, but it doesn't work
[16:13] <ali1234> davmor2: how does that help me?
[16:13] <Seeker`> mmm, I don't think that will be sufficient if there are critical bugs in the most used software like popey suggested
[16:13] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: wasn't it going to be the next big thing, and wouldn't it solve the graphics driver changing on the fly issue?
[16:14] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: it is supposed to be the next big thing yes
[16:14] <ali1234> however, OEMs will likely not support it until it is popular
[16:14] <ali1234> and it won't become popular until OEMs support it
[16:14]  * MartijnVdS senses a catch-22
[16:15] <davmor2> the computer world is full of catch 22's
[16:15] <ali1234> it doesn't actually make it easier to get drivers out of OEMs
[16:15] <ali1234> in fact it makes it harder because even the ones we currently have need to be rewritten
[16:15] <issyl0> popey: Don't suppose you have the link to tomorrow's Happy Hour info page?
[16:16] <popey> issyl0: loco.ubuntu.com
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> issyl0: 1277!
[16:16] <MartijnVdS> (and I'm not even coming..>)
[16:16] <ali1234> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1277/detail/
[16:16] <issyl0> Thanks, all.  :-)
[16:18] <ali1234> so as i was saying
[16:18] <popey> :D
[16:18] <ali1234> if ubuntu is only going to work properly on OEM hardware, which pretty much by definition is going to mean closed drivers
[16:18] <popey> Back to the rant.
[16:19] <ali1234> then that rather makes it difficult for me to contribute anything of value
[16:19] <popey> Come to the pub tomorrow ali1234, even as your alter-ego
[16:19] <MartijnVdS> rantyman?
[16:19] <popey> Dunno, it's sekrit :D
[16:20] <Laney> mr moanivator?
[16:20] <Monsterwizard> I don't feel motivated
[16:20] <Seeker`> also, going back to the driver issue, it may not say that you have to install it, but it does say both "recommended" and that it has been tested with ubuntu
[16:20] <Monsterwizard> My CS degree is worth something isn't it?
[16:20] <Monsterwizard> people always seem to complain about it
[16:20] <MartijnVdS> Monsterwizard: "Uncle Owen? This R2 unit has a bad motivator!"
[16:21] <Monsterwizard> But how I see it, is my skills are limited to what I did in uni
[16:21] <Laney> it robbed you of the ability to learn new things?
[16:21] <Seeker`> I don't think there are many other ways you can word it that imply "you should do this" any more without actually saying "you have to install this"
[16:21] <ali1234> yup
[16:22] <ali1234> although really, given that it is a choice between nvidia and nouveau
[16:22] <ali1234> well
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> Seeker`: "But thou must!"
[16:22] <ali1234> nouveau lasted about 10 minutes before it crashed
[16:22] <ali1234> and i mean full system lockup
[16:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: bug #?
[16:22] <ali1234> and that was on the livecd too
[16:22] <popey> i used it for some days  during 11.10 development
[16:23] <popey> (nouveau that is)
[16:23] <popey> whilst nvidia/x was broken
[16:23] <popey> actually, no that was 11.04 dev
[16:23] <Laney> which way is colder on a fridge dial?
[16:23] <MartijnVdS> Laney: away from the "off" position = colder
[16:24] <Laney> i don't think it has an off position
[16:24] <MartijnVdS> Laney: (off position = light goes out)
[16:24] <Laney> just 0-5
[16:24] <popey> 5 maximum negativeness
[16:24] <gord> nouveau is 3d enabled by default these days, its not bad. though i still choose nvidia
[16:25] <Laney> maximum coldings
[16:25] <ali1234> that's the problem
[16:25] <ali1234> nouveau 3d is enabled, even though it doesn't work properly yet
[16:25] <ali1234> kind of like how unity is enabled, even though it doesn't work properly yet
[16:26] <Seeker`> I've had a linux system of some sort permanently since 2004, and at least one of those systems has been a *buntu one since 2005, I've been using windows since about 1995 and I've now had some experience with osx. OSx is far better from the point of a naive user than either of the other two (but they have complete control of the hardware, which means it is understandable from hardware bugs perspective - not so much from purely soft
[16:26] <Laney> someone highlight me when the moanfest is over
[16:26] <kvarley> How can I install pulseaudio?
[16:26] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: it's installed by defaul;t
[16:27] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I'm using LUbuntu which shipped with Alsa
[16:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Q+A Videocast Today - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/19/ubuntu-community-qa-videocast-today/
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: don't do that :)
[16:27] <popey> Laney Laney Laney Laney Laney Laney Laney Laney Laney Laney
[16:27] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: also.. apt-get install pulseaudio should do it
[16:27] <Laney> hey!
[16:27] <popey> Yo!
[16:27] <Laney> i think that today is a lovely typically autumn day
[16:28] <Laney> nice and crisp
[16:28] <MartijnVdS> and wet
[16:28] <Seeker`> mmmmm crisps
[16:28] <Laney> *also* i am about to have fish and chips for dinner
[16:29] <popey> mmmm chips
[16:29] <Laney> curry or peas or none?
[16:29] <bigcalm> Additional drivers gives me far too many options. What am I meant to be using for best results? http://discworld.cuth.eu/dump/additional_drivers_11_10.png
[16:30] <popey> ah now..
[16:31] <popey> chips + gravy
[16:31] <czajkowski> ohhh
[16:31] <czajkowski> yes
[16:31] <czajkowski> please
[16:31] <popey> or chips + curry + peas from the chinese restaurant
[16:31] <Seeker`> bigcalm: the [Recommended] ones, that were "Tested by Ubuntu developers", which have potentially usability breaking bugs?
[16:31] <czajkowski> with some saussages
[16:31] <czajkowski> and um peas
[16:31] <czajkowski> *beans
[16:31] <Laney> hmm gravy
[16:31] <Laney> don't usually go for that one, but hmm i am rather tempted
[16:31] <popey> Seeker`: we also ship btrfs with zero warnings
[16:31] <czajkowski> I <3 taco chips from supermacs back home
[16:31] <czajkowski> minus the cheese
[16:31] <popey> which has the very real possibility of eating data
[16:32]  * czajkowski does a lil dance 
[16:32] <czajkowski> :d
[16:32] <bigcalm> Seeker`: I see
[16:32] <ali1234> "3D accelerated proprietary graphics driver for NVIDIA cards are required if you want to run Unity."
[16:32] <Seeker`> Unity3d surely
[16:32] <ali1234> no it is just called Unity
[16:32] <ali1234> Unity and Unity2d
[16:33] <ali1234> there is no Unity3d
[16:33] <Seeker`> ah, k
[16:33] <popey> s/unity3d/spoon/
[16:33] <Seeker`> popey: :O ISEEWHATYOUDIDTHAR
[16:34] <ali1234> tbh it amazes me that the nvidia driver can run all kinds of complex graphics, but unity can't even manage to get it to render a texture rectangle
[16:34] <Seeker`> ali1234: so, yeah, thats even closer to "you must install this"
[16:42] <Laney> living opposite the chippy++
[16:42] <bigcalm> Just noticed the a friend of mine works for Eventbrite. Should mean that service will improve over time
[16:42] <bigcalm> Waist size++
[16:43] <Laney> sadly true
[16:44] <bigcalm> Since living closer to a chippy this has happened to me
[16:44] <bigcalm> Wow, kvirc is still going?
[16:45] <bigcalm> I think that was the 1st client I used when I 1st used Linux
[16:46] <Myrtti> there's a few things in a relationship that I have to draw a line on
[16:46] <Myrtti> 1) playing Wow
[16:46] <popey> 2) cutting toenails at the dinner table
[16:46] <Seeker`> :O
[16:46] <Myrtti> 2) having a deepfryer
[16:46] <Seeker`> 2 is understandable
[16:47] <ali1234> wat
[16:47] <Seeker`> 1 isn't :P
[16:47] <popey> I have never even seen WoW
[16:47] <gordonjcp> having a deep fryer is totally understandable
[16:47] <Myrtti> Seeker`: 1) is from the knowledge that it's a huge timesink and I'd rather not get anyone, including myself, addicted to it
[16:47] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: without a deep fryer how are you supposed to make tempura or gyoza?
[16:47] <davmor2> gord: ryzom should be in oneiric now I forgot to tell you
[16:47] <Seeker`> Myrtti: it is an absolutely huge timesink
[16:47] <bigcalm> The most I've seen of WoW is when it was used with "The Internet is for Porn"
[16:48] <popey> mmmmm tempura
[16:48] <popey> might make some tempura prawns tonight
[16:48] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: gyoza is easy to make without a deepfryer, tempure I'm not too keen on
[16:48] <Seeker`> Myrtti: it also gave me people to "socialise" with when anxiety basically kept me from leaving the house
[16:48] <gord> davmor2, so it is :)
[16:49] <Myrtti> Seeker`: see, I can sink time and socialise in IRC...
[16:49] <Myrtti> *ahem*
[16:49]  * Seeker` votes for tempura vegetables instead of prawns
[16:49] <gord> i have some friends who used to play wow, they had literal years of game time logged in, not they have been registered for x years, the have been logged in and actively playing for enough hours to constitute a year
[16:49] <davmor2> gord: you know you want to, you know you need to, you know you've got to ;)
[16:49] <gord> i basically didn't see them for like 3 years or something
[16:50] <Seeker`> gord: I think I'm up to something like 200 days logged in to the game now
[16:50] <gordonjcp> Seeker`: yasai tempura ftw
[16:51] <gord> i play a looot of video games, but the most i'v played something was like 250 hours total, can't even fathom that amount of time
[16:51] <Seeker`> but I will tend to log in first thing in the morning at weekends and stay logged until until I go to bed 18 hours later, even if i'm not actively playing for more than about 10 mins in a day
[16:51] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: much harder to do fried gyoza, although I agree it's not necessary for steamed
[16:51] <gord> davmor2, tf2 install has all my bandwidth today :) - i'll give it a shot tomorrow though
[16:52] <Seeker`> gord: if you get in to raiding, it is easy to raid 3 times a week, 3 hours at a time
[16:52] <Myrtti> I don't like fried ones anyway :-)
[16:52] <Myrtti> mmmm gyoza
[16:53] <Seeker`> hmm, not had gyoza in ages. Used to get duck gyoza from waitrose when I lived near one
[16:54] <gordonjcp> Seeker`: I work fairly near a SeeWoo
[16:55] <Seeker`> gord: for example, I'll probably log in to WoW when I get home, start raiding at 7, finish at 10, and then wander away from the computer but stay logged in until 11 or 12, so thats 5 hours /played in an evening
[16:56] <gord> Seeker`, see, when i play video games, i play from 7-10, and don't leave it running :P
[16:56] <gord> and then stop after a while because i want something new
[16:57] <davmor2> gord do you find yourself accidentally finishing games I've done it a few times now :)
[17:00] <ali1234> hey eve brought back ship spinning
[17:05] <shauno> I think last time I played WoW, it was because my laptop was uncomfortably cold.  so I fired up wow while I made coffee, then shut it off when I got back.  made my lappy nice 'n cosy
[17:06] <bigcalm> Minecraft does the same thing
[17:06] <penguin42> shauno: That's the problem with all this talk of low power hardware
[17:06] <shauno> bigcalm, minecraft wouldn't get shut off once coffee was made tho ;)
[17:07] <bigcalm> shauno: it's a wonderful time sink :D
[17:07] <popey> home time \o/
[17:07] <shauno> and this isn't low-powered hardware :/  the metal chassis just gets *really* cold when I've been out all day
[17:20] <tonytiger> Does the pub for the meeting tomorrow definitely do food in the evenings?
[17:20] <tonytiger> The website is unclear.
[17:26] <gordonjcp> where's the best place to get help with pulseaudio?
[17:34] <AlanBell> evening all
[17:39] <jacobw> evening AlanBell
[17:44] <livingdaylight> popey, I copy pasted that script into gedit and saved it as ffscreencast.sh and moved it to /usr/local/bin
[17:44] <livingdaylight> but alt+f2 and running ffscreencast.sh is coming back as error
[17:52] <AlanBell> livingdaylight: is it executable?
[17:52] <AlanBell> sudo chmod +x /usr/local/bin/ffscreencast.sh
[17:56] <bigcalm> Does the 1st line point to /bin/sh ?
[17:57] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: what happens when you run it from a terminal?
[18:00] <livingdaylight> http://paste.ubuntu.com/713478/
[18:04] <gord> wow  the iphone4s screen is not bad http://vimeo.com/30606785
[18:04] <gord> erm camera not screen
[18:05]  * MartijnVdS is going to buy a Galaxy Nexus as soon as it's released
[18:05] <diplo> Contract or buy outright MartijnVdS ?
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> diplo: buy
[18:06] <MartijnVdS> diplo: I just renewed my Voda contract without a phone (which is a lot cheaper than with a phone..)
[18:06] <diplo> I'd like to as well, not sure i can find that sorta cash though :/
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> also, $employer pays about half :)
[18:07] <MartijnVdS> (we get a "gadget budget" every few years)
[18:07] <diplo> Blimey
[18:08] <MartijnVdS> Bought an EeePC last time
[18:11] <ali1234> is it just me or is there no sound on jono's stream?
[18:12] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: don't tell him!
[18:12] <mfraz74> ali1234: sound coming through ok here
[18:13] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: see that output directory, does it actually exist?
[18:14] <livingdaylight> gordonjcp, which output directory?
[18:14] <livingdaylight> was told to just save the script as something.sh and into /usr/local/bin
[18:14] <smittix> anyone know of a decent ssh client for iPhone/
[18:16] <ali1234> my machine is doing that thing again where it mutes the audio for no reason
[18:16] <livingdaylight> I'd be happy with gtk-recordmydesktop but its not capturing sound
[18:18] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: the directory it's trying to put all those files into, at the bottom of your paste
[18:21] <livingdaylight> gordonjcp, what is it suggesting its looking for as directory?
[18:21] <livingdaylight> /home/videos exists
[18:21] <livingdaylight> its a big output and seems there are a lot of problems, no?
[18:22] <gordonjcp> no
[18:22] <gordonjcp> there is one major problem
[18:23] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: read the last five lines
[18:24] <livingdaylight> i have, but still don't know what it expects
[18:24] <mgdm> it's not that you have a dir called videos and it wants Videos?
[18:24] <livingdaylight> there should be a folder 2011/10/19/185822?
[18:25] <mgdm> /home/livingdaylight/Videos/2011/10/19/
[18:25] <mgdm> that needs to exist
[18:26] <livingdaylight> that's just today's date
[18:26] <livingdaylight> everytime I want to make a video I have to put in place a folder of today's date?
[18:26] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: you could modify the script to either not require that, or make it for you
[18:27] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: wait
[18:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Presenting SlickPanel - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/presenting-slickpanel/
[18:27] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: are you seriously telling us that you just copied and pasted something off the Internet that someone told you to do, and ran it?
[18:27] <skybinary> hello, what is the erm username and password for the ubuntu 11.10 Oneiric Ocelot live cd, i cannee get in :O
[18:28] <livingdaylight> gordonjcp, no, popey posted it earlier
[18:28] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: and you trusted him?
[18:28] <livingdaylight> er, yea
[18:29] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: and didn't even make an attempt to understand the script?
[18:29] <gordonjcp> muahahaha, you're a braver man than I
[18:29] <DJones> skybinary: As far as I'm aware, there shouldn't be a username/password for the live cd, on the ones I've tried, there hasn't been
[18:30] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: in all seriousness, if someone like popey gives you it it's probably safe enough - but you should still make an effort to understand what the script does before running it
[18:31] <skybinary> DJones, oh, weird huh!, well none of my user/pass comis' worked neither did 'ubuntu'/blank
[18:31] <DJones> skybinary: On https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD it does say Sometimes a LiveCD might ask you for a user-name or password. Just leave these blank and press enter (or allow it to time-out).
[18:31] <skybinary> its a good indication to get me to install win7
[18:31] <skybinary> DJones, tried that too
[18:32] <skybinary> looks loverly too, but unusable
[18:32] <livingdaylight> gordonjcp fair enough. I assumed it would launch a desktop recorder but, no, didn't look at the detail
[18:32] <DJones> skybinary: It could also be a a corrupt download, might be worth redownloading the iso & creating a new stick just in case
[18:32] <skybinary> oh kay
[18:34] <gordonjcp> livingdaylight: at some point it will be trying to write stuff into a directory with the date in its path
[18:40] <popey> evening all
[18:41] <mfraz74> good evening
[18:45]  * popey notes the only thing wrong with the script that livingdaylight ran was that he didnt have the right version of ffmpeg
[18:46] <jacobw> md5sum the iso
[18:52] <smittix> popey: do you know of a decent free ssh client for iPhone?
[18:52] <popey> i dont, i paid for mine
[18:52] <smittix> how much was it?
[18:56] <popey> pass
[18:56] <popey> i cant remember
[18:57] <popey> not much
[18:57] <popey> issh
[18:57] <popey> http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/issh-ssh-vnc-console/id287765826?mt=8
[18:57] <popey> blimey
[18:57] <popey> 7 quid
[18:58] <mfraz74> So iOS hasn't got a free app like ConnectBot on Android?
[18:59] <jacobw> ++android
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> connectbot == bomb, the
[19:01] <ali1234> well, jono completely dodged my question, twice
[19:03] <DJones> Heh, how about this for  a halloween pumpkin design http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313145_278153678884209_110298935669685_911178_215675802_n.jpg
[19:05] <popey> ali1234: missed it, what question?
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> DJones: EX-PUMPKIN-ATE
[19:06] <popey> about chasing users?
[19:06] <ali1234> popey: what is canonical doing to ensure that volunteer support channels grow to keep up with the 200M new users?
[19:06] <rdj> 200M wow
[19:06] <popey> what was the answer?
[19:06] <popey> rdj: thats a target
[19:06] <rdj> ah
[19:06] <ali1234> popey: "well, you can all go out there and do advocacy"
[19:06] <rdj> makes sense
[19:06] <ali1234> the first time
[19:07] <popey> ok
[19:07] <popey> and the second?
[19:07] <ali1234> and the second time i asked he mumbled something about his team
[19:07] <ali1234> i didn't catch it but it sounded like "that's not what my team does"
[19:07] <smittix> hmm, vlc wont play video without the sound being out of sync
[19:07] <rdj> funnily enough am listening to the latest Ubuntu UK podcast....
[19:07] <ali1234> i would have thought chasing new users was marketing's job
[19:07] <popey> rdj: feedback welcome
[19:08] <rdj> good stuff
[19:08] <rdj> I agree about enthusiasm waning
[19:08] <rdj> not personally
[19:08] <popey> rdj: including "popey, you're wrong", which ali1234 has said and we'll read out during the next show
[19:08] <rdj> cool
[19:09] <rdj> have been an Ubuntu user since Breezey Badger done some informal local advocacy
[19:09] <popey> I had a _very_ long conversation with Jono on thursday. I think he realises that there are gaps in what the community team is doing
[19:09] <popey> he's very aware :D
[19:10] <ali1234> i wouldn't say gaps
[19:10] <popey> chasms? D
[19:10] <AlanBell> ali1234: I think the issue was mentioning the 200m "target"
[19:11] <ali1234> i think it is more like a telegraph pole in a desert
[19:11] <AlanBell> so does jono
[19:11] <ali1234> the communiyt team seems fixated on advocacy
[19:11] <ali1234> and absolutely nothing else
[19:11] <ali1234> and that seems to trickle down to every level of the community
[19:12] <ali1234> i'll give a concrete example
[19:12] <popey> brb, accountant here
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> (i.e. wife)
[19:12] <ali1234> there's no clear path from joining a loco to becoming a bug triager for example
[19:13] <ali1234> once you join a loco your options for advancement involve becoming loco leader, joining community council, irc council etc
[19:13] <ali1234> if you are technical, there doesn't seem much to do in a loco
[19:13] <AlanBell> this is true, in this loco, so far
[19:14] <ali1234> so even though the technical side with bugs, support etc, is an open community
[19:14] <ali1234> and locos are open too
[19:14] <ali1234> they are very much separate
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: there's the drinking beer/helping people on irc part
[19:14] <AlanBell> translations do fit the loco model
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: (I consider myself quite technical)
[19:14] <AlanBell> and I do want to get an en_GB localised ISO done by the loco
[19:14] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: the drinking beer part is the problem
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: It's an efficient way of social bonding.
[19:15] <ali1234> social bonding doesn't get code written
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: no, but it does help spread knowledge
[19:15] <ali1234> not really
[19:15] <AlanBell> beer is fine, and providing support over IRC and mailing list is good
[19:16] <AlanBell> it isn't a zero sum game
[19:16] <AlanBell> more code does not equal less beer
[19:16] <ali1234> we can and do provide support on irc
[19:16] <ali1234> i don't do the mailing list stuff myself
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: More beer does equal less code usually though :)
[19:16] <ali1234> but that's my question really
[19:16] <AlanBell> there are a lot of people here who are individual contributors in different ways
[19:16] <ali1234> i don't really consider myself a part of the ubuntu community
[19:16] <AlanBell> aww
[19:17] <ali1234> my question is, why?
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> Should you?
[19:17] <ali1234> and what can canonical do to change that?
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> (do you feel like you should?)
[19:17] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: i don't even know
[19:17] <Azelphur> I think more social does equal more code actually
[19:17] <Azelphur> When everyone has a good collaboration spot, awesome stuff happens
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> I stopped being active as a contributor because everything grew too big and political
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> I help in here
[19:17] <ali1234> what i do know is you are going to need an awful lot more people manning the irc, mailing lists, asks ubuntu etc, when you add on that 199M new users
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> but UDSes, -devel list, etc... not anymore
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> ("Canonical always wins the argument" doesn't help there)
[19:18] <ali1234> but it seems like nobody at canonical is thinking about the long term
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> (not that I assume I'm always right, but I like to think I am sometimes)
[19:18] <ali1234> once you get 200M users, what are you going to do then?
[19:18] <ali1234> collapse under the weight?
[19:18] <ali1234> how can that be avoided?
[19:19] <Azelphur> ali1234: when you add that many users, perhaps more services will evolve to take the load
[19:19] <ali1234> seems like a good way would be to encourage people who took the first step of join a loco
[19:19] <Azelphur> eg brainstorm is much better at taking load than say IRC
[19:19] <ali1234> so how ca we do that?
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: But perhaps the IRC channels will collapse in flooding
[19:19] <Azelphur> there could also be regional loco channels, eg ubuntu-uk-kent
[19:19] <ali1234> i look to the community manager for answers... he has none
[19:19] <ali1234> so now what?
[19:19] <ali1234> Azelphur: hoping that the problem will just fix itself isn't really the greatest strategy
[19:19] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[19:19] <Azelphur> ali1234: lies, it's actually one of the greatest strategies
[19:20] <Azelphur> most problems will solve themselves
[19:20] <AlanBell> ali1234: the community manager didn't say the 200m users line
[19:20] <ali1234> AlanBell: but when asked how ubuntu can achieve 200M users, he had lots of ideas
[19:20] <AlanBell> which is why he is ducking questions that include it
[19:20] <ali1234> AlanBell: but there doesn't seem to be a plan for when it happens
[19:21] <Azelphur> I think brainstorm is quite capable of doing 200M
[19:21] <ali1234> i thought brainstorm was abandoned
[19:21] <Azelphur> Stackoverflow/brainstorm model is very good
[19:21] <Azelphur> it was? slap someone in the face with a fish.
[19:22] <Azelphur> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ doesn't look abandoned to me
[19:22] <Azelphur> there again I can see looking at it that it's just for ideas
[19:22] <Azelphur> we need a ubuntu style stackoverflow :P
[19:22] <ali1234> this isn't about technical solutions
[19:23] <ali1234> you can make a stackexchange where people can asks questions, fine
[19:23] <Azelphur> tada, support provided?
[19:23] <ali1234> my specific question is, how are you going to encourage more people to answer those questions
[19:23] <Azelphur> If you really need to (I don't think you do, Microsoft seems to manage), you could do some kind of advertising revenue model
[19:24] <Azelphur> where you answer a question and you get a portion of the advertising revenue for that page
[19:24] <AlanBell> Azelphur: that is precisely what askubuntu.com is
[19:24] <ali1234> support for MS products is awful
[19:24] <Azelphur> AlanBell: great minds :D
[19:24] <ali1234> comunity support i mean
[19:25] <Azelphur> AlanBell: askubuntu is stackoverflow ubuntu? or you get a share of the advertising revenue
[19:25] <AlanBell> stackexchange for ubuntu questions
[19:25] <Azelphur> hehe, I knew there was one :)
[19:26] <ali1234> it seems like almost nobody really believes the 200M thing is possible
[19:26] <Azelphur> ali1234: there's also the paid support contracts too
[19:26] <ali1234> i believe it!
[19:26] <AlanBell> so one thing I think they should do and I mentioned to sabdfl in the CC meeting yesterday was to define the use case of Ubuntu
[19:26] <ali1234> i think it is innevitable
[19:26] <Azelphur> I agree it's totally possible, I'm not stupid :)
[19:26] <Azelphur> ali1234: I'd agree with that too, I don't know if Ubuntu will take off, but some form of Linux certainly will
[19:27] <AlanBell> I think the 200m can be done, but it was just stated with no followthrough or pre-planning
[19:27] <Azelphur> ali1234: but I think the ultimate answer is that support ecosystems will evolve and diversify as the community gets bigger
[19:27] <ali1234> it all comes back to the same old point i keep making
[19:27] <Azelphur> (yay big words)
[19:28] <ali1234> we've seen it before with WUBI
[19:28] <AlanBell> so they need to define what Ubuntu is for, and what they expect the community to be
[19:28] <ali1234> it's supposed to be easy to use
[19:28] <ali1234> but it sucks, so the only people that use it are the people that don't understand it
[19:29] <ali1234> as a result, they can't get support when it breaks
[19:29] <AlanBell> is the community expected to be a kind of usergroup
[19:29] <ali1234> because anyone who understands bootloaders is using grub
[19:29] <ali1234> so let me put my question a different way
[19:30] <AlanBell> is the community expected to be small businesses with products and services for Ubuntu (like the partner community around various proprietary things)
[19:30] <AlanBell> or is the community expected to be individual hackers doing stuff for fun?
[19:30] <ali1234> well it doesn't seem to be the latter
[19:30] <Azelphur> it doesn't? :o
[19:31] <AlanBell> indeed
[19:31] <ali1234> it doesn't seem to be *expected* to be the latter
[19:31] <AlanBell> not sure I mind that at all
[19:31] <ali1234> but my question is really rather simple
[19:31] <Azelphur> yea, lots of end users have broken opinions, but you can't fix stupid
[19:31] <ali1234> how are you going to encourage computer professionals to learn an operating system that isn't designed for their needs?
[19:32] <AlanBell> *yes*
[19:32] <Azelphur> if you want free support, you need to be patient and understand that the only help your going to get is if/when someone has an answer, if you have money to burn the support contracts are that way -->
[19:32] <AlanBell> that is the problem, the use-case for ubuntu
[19:32] <AlanBell> is it a home user operating system that comes on an OEM provided pre-install and has banshee and games to buy
[19:33] <AlanBell> or is it a small business operating system with lenses that connect to your business systems and does ldap and configuration management and suchlike
[19:33] <ali1234> you can't add 200M green users without also bringing on board some professionals to provide support, whether paid or free
[19:34] <ali1234> well, you can, but you end up with the microsoft situation where every windows machine has 800 viruses
[19:34] <ali1234> that was a direct result of adding users faster than you can provide support, in the early 2000
[19:34] <Azelphur> Windows machines now days get infected not because of OS vulnerabilities, but because of end user stupidity
[19:34] <Azelphur> You really can't fix stupid
[19:35] <ali1234> that was *always* the case
[19:35] <ali1234> and that is my point
[19:35] <Azelphur> ali1234: not really, a while back you'd wander around with IE and get driveby'd, that's less likely now days
[19:35] <ali1234> if you even using IE it is your own fault
[19:35] <Azelphur> (20:34:45) Azelphur: You really can't fix stupid
[19:35] <Azelphur> tada
[19:35] <ali1234> yes
[19:36] <ali1234> you can't fix stupid
[19:36] <ali1234> all you can do is provide more and better support
[19:36] <ali1234> so here we are back at the start. where is that support going to come from?
[19:36] <Azelphur> PC repair shops, same place Windows users get it from I guess
[19:37] <ali1234> lol
[19:37] <Azelphur> perhaps that's what we should do, promote PC shops supporting Ubuntu :)
[19:37] <ali1234> those places have always been a scam
[19:37] <ali1234> most of them don't have a clue
[19:37] <ali1234> the things i've been told in PC shops
[19:37] <ali1234> if that's the best we can do then Ubuntu doesn't have a chance
[19:37] <ali1234> it needs to be *better* then the competition
[19:37] <Azelphur> Ubuntu certified repair shop? :)
[19:38] <ali1234> well that would be a start
[19:38] <Azelphur> tada incompetency fixed
[19:38] <ali1234> i mean it's better than the current plan
[19:39] <Azelphur> besides that you could also have Ubuntu certified engineers but the qualification would need to be free
[19:39] <ali1234> it doesn't need to be free
[19:39] <AlanBell> why?
[19:39] <ali1234> it just needs to be affordable
[19:39] <Azelphur> ok, maybe that
[19:39] <Azelphur> I probably wouldn't do it if it wasn't free or very cheap
[19:40] <jacobw> i don't know any non-technical users who get technical support from independent businesses
[19:40] <ali1234> i wouldn't do it unless it was free
[19:40] <ali1234> but i don't need qualifications
[19:40] <ali1234> a lot of people would do it if it wasa bit cheaper, i suspect
[19:40] <ali1234> and if it had actually useful things on the curriculum
[19:41] <Azelphur> I'd only be interested in doing the test online for the fun of having the pretty sticker
[19:41] <ali1234> every linux cert i have ever looked at consists of questions that i have no idea the answer to, but which i could find in about 10 seconds with the man command
[19:41] <ali1234> that is not a useful cert
[19:41] <jacobw> how would a free certification work?
[19:41] <Azelphur> I have this weird thing now days where people just sit down next to me and say "Your a really intelligent person" having never met them before xD
[19:42] <Azelphur> qualifications: un-needed, people just randomly assume I'm intelligent for no apparent reason
[19:42] <AlanBell> personally I don't think end user support is very interesting commercially
[19:42] <AlanBell> people don't want support contracts for their iPad
[19:42] <ali1234> AlanBell: you're probably right
[19:42] <ali1234> but it is still needed
[19:42] <AlanBell> well they might, I don't really know
[19:43] <Azelphur> ali1234: I think it's not, I think even if support was provided people wouldn't use it
[19:43] <Azelphur> people arn't interested in whether they have malware and if their machine is being used as a zombie or not
[19:43] <jacobw> i think 99.999% of end users are unsupported, end users being support outside of business environment just isn't a thing.
[19:43] <Azelphur> you're lucky to even get interest in "My computers running slower than when I got it"
[19:43] <ali1234> Azelphur: you are correct. however they are interested when their machine won't boot after an update
[19:44] <ali1234> at the very least, they want to get their files back
[19:44] <Azelphur> ali1234: yea, when that happens with windows, they sent it off to a repair shop :P
[19:44] <Azelphur> or call the local tech
[19:44] <ali1234> yup
[19:44] <ali1234> and what happens if they have ubuntu installed?
[19:44] <ali1234> they send it to the local PC shop, and the local PC shop says "wtf is this" then wipes it and installs windows
[19:45] <AlanBell> someone running a business doing something real like plumbing, car repair, estate agency etc. might well want support for a dozen Ubuntu desktops
[19:45] <ali1234> AlanBell: very much so
[19:45] <Azelphur> ali1234: hense advocating it in pc shops
[19:45] <ali1234> AlanBell: they won't ask for that directly though
[19:45] <ali1234> they will look for someone to do "all of our IT" (which will include phones, website, etc etc)
[19:46] <ali1234> much of which won't be running on ubuntu
[19:46] <AlanBell> ali1234: indeed, they will want an openERP server and a bunch of client PCs that "just work"
[19:46] <ali1234> they won't want openERP
[19:46] <ali1234> a business with only 10 machines probably won't even have a file server
[19:46] <ali1234> they might *need* openERP, but it will be up to the IT support guy to sell it to them
[19:46] <AlanBell> OpenERP does scale down to that level, my point is they want a server that does something
[19:47] <ali1234> a lot of businesses these days don't even have offices
[19:47] <ali1234> or they have an office with 1 guy in it
[19:47] <ali1234> and everyone else works from home
[19:47] <AlanBell> yup, and we host their openERP :)
[19:48] <ali1234> and if they want to share files... they email them
[19:48] <AlanBell> we don't do email hosting, ick
[19:48] <ali1234> i can't think of anyone i know that has a CRM system and actually uses it
[19:48] <ali1234> they are too hard to use
[19:49] <ali1234> and nobody has time to learn them
[19:49] <ali1234> so everyone just has a million excel spreadsheets with addresses in them
[19:49] <ali1234> then they mail them around
[19:50] <ali1234> or they keep everything in their phone, with no backups
[19:50] <AlanBell> yes, that is the "before" state of some of our customers
[19:51] <ali1234> so how do you deal with the awkward employees who like things the way they are?
[19:51] <ali1234> you know, the ones who deliberately mess it up because they don't want to learn it
[19:51] <ali1234> and you know it, and they know it
[19:51] <AlanBell> internal matter for the customer really
[19:53] <ali1234> i guess
[20:03] <AlanBell> christel: I might drive tomorrow, want a lift?
[20:23] <christel> oh
[20:23] <christel> that'd be grand if you do
[20:23] <christel> <3
[20:23] <Azelphur> it's a trap :o
[20:23] <christel> haha
[20:23] <christel> it usually is when AlanBell is involved!
[20:23] <christel> ;)
[20:23] <Azelphur> indeed
[20:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Running old Mono applications on Ubuntu 11.10 - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/10/mono-gotcha/
[20:31]  * AlanBell has upgraded from Oneiric
[20:31] <czajkowski> already
[20:32] <czajkowski> how wise was that eh
[20:32] <AlanBell> well it wasn't on a customer server so it is OK
[20:33] <AlanBell> at least I don't think that ssh session was to a customer server
[20:34] <andylockran> exit
[20:36] <bigcalm> You can never leave!
[20:37]  * Laney clings to andylockran 
[20:37]  * Azelphur handcuffs andylockran to the radiator
[20:39] <AlanBell> well precise kind of works right now
[20:39] <AlanBell> can't get 3d unity in virtualbox for some reason, but broadly speaking it is working
[20:43] <Laney> it won't have changed massively yet
[20:43]  * popey returns
[20:43]  * popey reads scrollback
[20:47] <bigcalm> 36mb to download Safari web browser. I hope it works in wine
[20:50] <bigcalm> Browser loads but doesn't display pages
[20:50] <bigcalm> Humf
[20:54] <bigcalm> Now trying it via winetricks
[20:54] <gord> why you after safari in wine?
[20:54] <gord> for fun?
[20:54] <bigcalm> Linux can be so much fune
[20:54] <bigcalm> Because there isn't a native port of Safari?
[20:54] <jacobw> browserling.com
[20:54] <jacobw> cross browser testing, from your browser :)
[20:55] <bigcalm> I'm a web dev. Also, I need to be able to test instantly, not just stuff that's been deployed
[20:55] <jacobw> i see
[20:55] <bigcalm> And this VM connection buggers off quite often. So have to work off line during that time as well
[20:56] <bigcalm> While cross browser sites are good, they don't meet all of my needs this time
[20:56] <AlanBell> is safari different to chromium in a significant way?
[20:56] <bigcalm> Thanks any way :)
[20:56] <bigcalm> AlanBell: no idea, but a client is complaining that their site 'doesn't look right' in Safari
[20:56] <floatingpointnum> :O
[20:56] <floatingpointnum> There's a IRSSI for windows
[20:57] <AlanBell> bigcalm: missing font on a mac maybe?
[20:57] <bigcalm> Aha, it installed and works :D
[20:57] <bigcalm> AlanBell: shouldn't be, apart from the title, the whole site uses Arial
[20:58] <bigcalm> I will need them to do a screenshot. Joy
[20:58] <AlanBell> is that available on mac?
[20:58] <bigcalm> font-family: Arial, Sans-serif;
[20:58] <AlanBell> wont a mac use helvetica?
[20:59]  * bigcalm shrugs
[20:59] <bigcalm> Do you have a mac?
[20:59] <AlanBell> no
[21:00] <AlanBell> but Arial is a microsoft font, which we can't directly distribute
[21:01] <popey> bigcalm: i have a mac if that helps?
[21:01] <popey> happy to take screenshots for you
[21:01] <bigcalm> popey: yes please :)
[21:03] <mgdm> Mac's font rendering is a bit different to most others
[21:03] <mgdm> There's an option in Safari on Windows to make it use the Mac-style stuff instead of the Cleartype you normally get
[21:03] <mgdm> it looks... 'odd'
[21:03] <bigcalm> "Your Crucial memory order is complete."
[21:03]  * bigcalm bounces
[21:04] <popey> ☹
[21:04] <popey> safari on mac
[21:04] <popey> Steve Jobs staring out of the screen at me
[21:04] <bigcalm> Awww
[21:04] <bigcalm> Is he judging you?
[21:04] <popey> I'm running OSX, so unlikely
[21:04] <mgdm> heh
[21:05]  * mgdm is on OSX too, at present
[21:05] <bigcalm> Then we shall have to judge you both
[21:06] <Azelphur> Feed them to the crocodiles.
[21:06]  * AlanBell has phone and tethered OLPC for IRC meeting tomorrow
[21:07] <popey> ooo, reminds me, will bring laptop and dongle
[21:09]  * jacobw puts meeting in diary
[21:09] <AlanBell> should I install solr-jetty or solr-tomcat?
[21:18]  * AlanBell goes for jetty
[21:40] <bigcalm> I <3 get_iplayer
[21:42] <bigcalm> Darn, missed an episode of The Harpoon
[21:45] <bigcalm> Odd that not all programmes are available for download despite being listed on the website
[22:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Connecting to SMB shares from the command line in OS X - http://zrmt.com/2011/10/19/connecting-to-smb-shares-from-the-command-line-in-os-x/
[22:49] <Jora> hi