MartijnVdS_another_ cups update? *sigh*06:23
TheOpenSourcererlo popey06:49
TheOpenSourcererMy son James is off to school shortly. He's giving a presentation today...06:49
TheOpenSourcererOn Minecraft :-D06:49
TheOpenSourcererBoth my boys seem horribly addicted.. Have now tightened up the time they have on the machine using Timekpr06:55
popeyhave you got a server at home?06:56
popeyor do they use other remote servers?06:56
popeyor just play local games06:56
TheOpenSourcererNot one big enough to run it I think.06:56
popeyfor 2 players you dont need much06:57
TheOpenSourcererI think they are just running a local client(?) if that is the right word.06:57
popeyi run a server on an acer revo ☺06:57
TheOpenSourcererMy server has 1GB of ram and is a VIA C7 downclocked to 1GHz ;-)06:57
czajkowskialoha all06:58
TheOpenSourcerermorning czajkowski06:58
czajkowskiTheOpenSourcerer: ello ello06:59
TheOpenSourcererSeen these high-level goals for 10.04? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2011/10/20/precision-planning-prepping-for-12-04-lts/ Sounds encouraging. I might be able to upgrade my desktop next year ;-)07:02
christelmorning czajkowski, popey, TheOpenSourcerer :)07:25
TheOpenSourcererhi christel07:34
christelhey hey07:36
christel(and hi daubers)07:36
hoovermorning all07:53
MooDoomorning all08:07
bigcalmEllo wake things08:08
* DJones returns a "lo" to bigcalm as its half a "Ello" and I'm only half awake08:12
MooDoomorning AlanBell08:21
DJonesSheesh, this sounds  abit too much like big brother http://activepolitic.com:82/News/2011-10-19d/EU_Parliament_Debates_Installing_A_Black_Box_On_Your_Computer.html08:21
christelmorning bells08:21
brobostigongood morning everyone.08:25
oimonDJones: knowing italian politicians, there is probably a monetary incentive08:25
DJonesI'm sure they'll pay tax on it08:26
oimoni was thinking more likely shares in the company08:26
oimonDJones: strangely, Logbox is completely different to what they said it is08:28
oimoni think they linked to the wrong site08:28
* daubers needs stronger coffee08:31
bigcalmHas anybody written a GUI or web interface for get-iplayer?08:31
oimonbigcalm: i've seen something related08:31
oimonbigcalm: the old get_iplayer had an interface built in http://linuxcentre.net/getiplayer/get_iplayer-pvr-manager08:34
smittixmorning all08:34
bigcalmI see08:34
JamesTaitGood morning all!08:35
christelbigcalm! *squeze*08:35
christelplus spelling08:35
MooDootime to go home yet? lol08:35
smittixtraining all day :/08:35
christelMooDoo: yes08:36
christelmorning JamesTait08:36
hooverhey biggie08:36
bigcalmchristel: *yummy squeeze*08:37
bigcalmHiya hoovie08:37
smittixbigcalm: hows the latest version of spotify? it has better integration doesnt it?08:38
bigcalmsmittix: *shrug*08:42
bigcalmsmittix: it works, haven't noticed much08:42
bigcalmsmittix: It does appear in the volume control, not sure how long it's done that for though08:42
smittixIm having some weird issues with VLC at the minute. Sound is out of sync on every video i play. I keep having to delay the audio by 150ms08:44
gordvlc has gotten crappy the past few releases =\08:46
smittixEvery other media player works flawlessly08:48
bigcalmoimon: the perl web interface doesn't work out of the box. Looks like I'll need to fix it 1st :(08:48
bigcalmThat's a shame. I've just got my dad away from WMP and onto VLC08:49
bigcalmIn other news: new ram for Revo has arrived \o/08:49
bigcalmTime to butcher my revo :D08:49
=== bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm
bigcalmPoor revo hasn't been turned off in such a long time08:53
bigcalmReally pleased at how well it has coped08:53
AlanBellanyone seen resizing terminal windows scrolls up in 11.10?08:53
AlanBellquite annoying when using screen sessions08:54
DJonesAlanBell: I haven't noticed that08:54
DJonesAs far as my use has gone, its been the same (but screen is running on a remote machine on 11.04) its the machine I physically use that has 11.1008:55
AlanBellparticularly when making a window taller08:55
AlanBellyeah, only the client end matters08:55
AlanBelland using the standard gnome-terminal08:56
=== lJl is now known as LjL
oimonmy 11.10 machine with 1GB RAM just OOMd :(09:06
* daubers needs to book some train tickets09:11
bigcalmpopey: put 4gb into the revo and free -m shows just over 3gb is available. Where in the bios can I fix this?09:15
popeyyou cant09:16
popeyMemTotal:        3316336 kB09:16
popeythats how much mine shows09:17
bigcalmMem:       309636409:17
oimoncomputer future are evil09:18
oimonjob agency. they are spamming my work address from all directions with unsolicited mail, and when i sent email to their data-audit address requesting complete removal, i get a reply "thanks for adding yourself to our database"09:19
bigcalmI'm sure we've all had this convo before, but I don't remember the answer. How do you find out if you have 32bit of 64bit ubuntu?09:20
oimonuname -a09:20
bigcalmLinux revo 2.6.32-34-generic #77-Ubuntu SMP Tue Sep 13 19:40:53 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux09:20
bigcalmLooks like it's 32bit then09:20
bigcalmI really didn't want to mess with the OS on it09:21
bigcalmOh well. At least the eeepc 1000 gets some new memory now :)09:21
daubersbigcalm: You could just install the pae kernel09:22
popeybigcalm: you can reduce the memory used by the video card09:22
popeywhich will give you a tiny bit more09:22
bigcalmpopey: that's the option I was looking for in the bios09:22
oimonwhen does the venue for oggcamp get decided ? (if it is happening in 2012)09:27
=== andatche_ is now known as andatche
daubersIn any language does the word "yes" start with an "n"?09:31
popeydaubers: yes, in arabic09:32
daubersThere goes my easy way out :(09:32
popeyand Greek09:32
bigcalmI once wrote a very silly basic prog that was set to quit on any key press because of different languages09:32
popeybigcalm: the option is in the video bit09:33
popeyshared memory hole or something09:33
popeyoimon: we haven't even discussed if there will be an oggcamp 201209:33
bigcalmpopey: that's what I was looking for but didn't see. Oh well, I'll have a look at the pae kernel09:33
daubersI've got a curses based program that I'm enabling for translations that expects y/n for yes/no :(09:34
AlanBelloimon: maybe we should try and get tonytiger and popey drunk enought to pick a venue tonight09:34
oimonpopey: ok thanks. i was already tentatively recruiting people after my first visit this year :P09:34
daubersoimon: Recruiting for what?09:35
oimonoggcamp attendance09:35
daubersah, ok09:35
MooDoodaubers: you looking for a new job?09:35
oimoni am also recruiting for a syadmin very shortly too though09:35
daubersMooDoo: Depends if people want to pay me £lots more09:38
Myrttia job?09:41
AlanBellLaney: MooDoo: Roundhouse http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/09:42
Laneysplendid choice09:43
daubersHmm... I could goto the Oxford one as well, that's only a £7.20 train trip09:45
AlanBellit might not be Oxford next09:46
MooDooLaney: you going?09:47
AlanBellcould be, but it isn't set in stone09:47
LaneyMooDoo: likely yeah, if others do ...09:47
MooDooLaney: cool, meet you there :D09:48
Laneywant to post it to nlug?09:48
MooDooLaney: not on the mailing list any more, i'll have to re-add myself09:48
Laneyyeah, silly moderated lists09:49
daubersAlanBell: No, but when it rolls around it's a viable option :)09:49
MooDooLaney: just added myself, i'll email them shortly09:49
MooDooLaney: in fact, doing it now :D09:50
Laneygood man09:50
diplocan't say I've been to the Roundhouse09:51
* diplo sees about organised a trip to HO09:52
popeyI just pimped tonights one to Hants and Surrey LUGs09:52
Laneyyeah it's a v nice pub09:52
MooDooLaney: ok mail sent :D09:52
dauberspopey: Mind if I steal your text to pimp it to sclug?09:54
daubers(and possibly reading hackspace)09:54
MooDooLaney: i'll be there in my ubuntu tshirt with a xhristmas tux lol09:55
popeydaubers: sure09:56
popeymight get busy in there tonight09:56
dauberspopey: ta09:56
popeyits only a small pub but they have an outdoor area which is covered09:56
bigcalmOh joy. Eclipse now ignores the filter on .* when it comes to .svn folders10:00
bigcalmMessy folder lists :(10:01
dauberspassed on to sclug and rdg hackspace :)10:01
DJonesbigcalm: Was it you that had the Kogan android tablet10:01
popeyI had a dream that I was on Canonical One last night10:01
daubers"Canonical One"? New TV Channel?10:02
bigcalmDJones: indeed, I have that pain10:02
DJonesThought it was, seems like they're bringing another one out http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/20/kogan_intros_cut_price_8in_10in_android_tablets/10:03
* bigcalm shudders10:04
bigcalmPowerful 1HGz Processor10:04
bigcalmWhat technology are they using?!10:04
DJonesI noticed that, great spell technology10:05
* popey upgrades his netbook to 11.10 before tonight10:05
popeywonder if this is wise10:05
DJones"Hgz = Hamster Goes Zoom"10:05
Davieypopey: are you crazy?!10:05
popeyYou have to ask.10:05
bigcalmDaviey: yes10:05
bigcalmdavmor2: is popey crazy?10:05
davmor2bigcalm: always10:06
davmor2morning all10:06
Davieydavmor2: stop causing trouble.10:06
MooDoomotning davmor210:06
davmor2bigcalm: any particular reason this time?10:06
davmor2MooDoo: motning to you too ;)10:07
bigcalmdavmor2: does there need to be a reason?10:07
davmor2Daviey: what?10:07
MooDoodavmor2: pah i can't type10:07
PendulumHey, I noticed that the Ben Nevis is listed as a possible Happy Hour spot. It's a fun pub but it's tiny and usually full to the brim. There's another pub just down the road, the Bon Accord, which has just as good beer, but more space. Plus the Bon Accord has flat entry for wheelchairs and the Nevis doesn't.10:07
Pendulum(this is in Glasgow)10:07
* AlanBell takes note of the advice from our Glasgow correspondent10:08
gordonjcpPendulum: the nevis doesn't have flat entry?10:08
davmor2Daviey: you must of misinterpreted my important role on #ubuntu-uk it is the role of polite trouble maker10:08
bigcalmI think I just made my 1st post to the mailing list. Weird10:08
davmor2bigcalm: you make it sound like it is an accident10:08
bigcalmdavmor2: it just surprises me when I do something for the 1st time10:09
Pendulumgordonjcp: nope. big step in the back and 2 small steps in the front. PITA to get in with a chair TBH10:09
Pendulumand I've only been in there once where I could actually move my chair once I was inside10:09
davmor2bigcalm: haha10:09
DJonesbigcalm: You have made your post to the mailing list, interesting reason for not being at the meeting10:09
Pendulum(last time I had to actually go back outside to get around to the loos it was so crowded)10:10
bigcalmThe gig was booked a long time ago by Hayley.10:10
gordonjcpPendulum: it's certainly pretty cramped10:10
DJonesBetter than mine anyway, I can't attend because I'm going to the cinema10:10
* bigcalm hugs AlanBell10:10
gordonjcpPendulum: iirc the bon has a proper disabled toilet10:10
daubersbigcalm: I want to go see them! My brother has and said they where amazing10:11
AlanBellPendulum: I will check wheelchair access on all future venues10:11
daubersDJones: Best waiting for the cinema until next week when Tintin comes out10:12
DJonesdaubers: Free tickets, so cheap night out10:12
daubersDJones: Ah, fair enough10:12
bigcalmdaubers: good news :)10:13
AlanBellLaney: MooDoo: does the roundhouse have wheelchair access?10:13
MooDooAlanBell: not sure, i'll see if there is anything on the site, else i'll go do a rekky10:14
bigcalm11.15am and I haven't had any music on yet. What is the world coming to?10:15
diploFirst thing i do when i sit down10:16
Laneytoday i am mostly: shivering in the office10:18
oimoni took a hot water bottle to work yesterday10:19
MooDooLaney: where are you agsain?10:19
Davieydavmor2: yes!10:19
bigcalmAnybody here who uses get_iplayer have the file get_iplayer.cgi? I'm struggling to find a working link to download it10:23
Laneywhat's get_iplayer.cgi?10:24
Laneydon't have that in .get_iplayer/10:24
bigcalmA web interface to get_iplayer10:25
davmor2Daviey: No! .... we are playing the opposites game right?10:25
Laneyany good?10:26
Laneynever heard of it10:26
davmor2Daviey: I hear good things about the latest server edition I can't wait for 12.04's version10:26
gordbigcalm, https://code.launchpad.net/get-iplayer10:26
* popey starts do-release-upgrade on his netbewk10:26
popeyLaney: its a bit ropey10:26
ubuntuuk-planet[Alan Pope] Happy Hour Comes to Farnborough - http://popey.com/blog/2011/10/20/happy-hour-comes-to-farnborough/10:27
DJonesbigcalm: Its also included in ftp://ftp.infradead.org/pub/get_iplayer/10:27
bigcalmInteresting, thanks guys10:27
davmor2popey: why not just do upgrade via update-manager you know with that new fangled graphical user interface?10:28
Laneythe cabinet office website is served from ubuntu "Server: Apache/2.2.11 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.6-3ubuntu4.6 with Suhosin-Patch mod_ssl/210:30
Laney.2.11 OpenSSL/0.9.8g"10:30
AlanBellwhich reminds me to chase the cabinet office about another server to be running Ubuntu + ruby on rails10:31
Laneyref http://www.itp.tuwien.ac.at/~mattems/blog/2011/10/20#meme_president_at — couldn't find any other definitive answers10:31
popeydavmor2: i had a terminal open already10:32
* mgdm +1s Pendulum's suggestion10:32
mgdmIt was probably me that suggested the Ben Nevis, but that was because I didn't realise what it was for, and thought someone was just after a pub :)10:33
MooDooLaney: looks like the notts lug team are working on t-shirts :D10:33
davmor2popey: You'd of done it in the terminal anyway you know it as well as I do ;)10:33
gordi still don't trust update manager to get me on a new version... i can't even qualify why10:34
* daubers does a coffee run10:36
Laneythat version of php5 was only published in jaunty-security?!?!?10:36
bigcalmpopey: "10:39
bigcalmI don't want you to think I was hallucinating, but having just looked again it's fine. So whatever it was the passage of time has sorted it out!"10:39
bigcalmMy clients are a funny lot10:40
popeydavmor2: i did consider using update manager10:40
popeylooked at the launcher and saw no icon for it10:40
davmor2popey: :)10:41
popeyfigured it was faster to type "sudo do-release-upgrade" than it would be to press the windows key and search for update manager and wait for that to load10:41
popeyI am of course (as always) right10:41
davmor2popey: on a plus side there is in Oneiric under the powting icon (power/settings button)10:41
AlanBell"the powting icon" <- official nomenclature?10:42
gordone of the things we wanted to do this cycle but didn't get time for, was to launch any command you type in alt+f2 that doesn't match a command in a desktop file (ie; gui app) in a terminal, so then you could of alt+f2 sudo do-release-upgrade :)10:42
popeyis that the official name of it?10:42
gordtechnically its the session indicator ;)10:43
popeyyou and your accuracy10:43
gord:( how do you close banshee?10:45
davmor2popey: I prefer powting :)10:45
gordi opened it and now it stole my media keys and i can't actually quit it to be able to pause my music playing in rb10:45
popeyyou dont need to quit10:46
popey(c) mpt10:46
gordkillall to the rescue i guess10:46
Laneyclose it when the music is paused10:47
Laney(c) canonical design team, indeed10:47
davmor2AlanBell: I liked you're post on the the a11y stuff in the installer :) not perfect but getting better by the sound of it :)10:49
tonytigerWhatever you can't quit, only makes you slower10:51
bigcalmI can't quit you, tonytiger10:51
popeyGet a room.10:52
tonytigerA pyroom?10:54
directhexpyro? mmph mmmph mph!10:54
bigcalmWhat shall lunch be today?10:56
Laneygreen eggs and ham10:56
bigcalmI think I should have some before 3pm like I did yesterday :S10:56
popeyIt's "disappointing curry" day in the restaurant at work.10:57
popeyI dont think they call it that on the menu though, probably just "curry"10:57
Laneyfree sub for me10:57
Laneywhich is code for "you have spent too much money at subway"10:57
directhexit's baguette day in the office today10:57
popeyI made myself a sandwich this morning though.10:57
directhexwhich is code for "sausage & mash in the canteen"10:57
MartijnVdSpopey: We add "disappointing" to everything served in our company restaurant10:58
* Laney ought to stop being lazy10:58
popeySo I should eat that.10:58
popeyor save it for pre-pub tea.10:58
hooversounds good! ;-)11:03
gordoh, warty was released 7 years ago today. that makes me feel a bit old11:04
gordjust a bit11:04
MooDoogord: you are old ;)11:05
diploI would have been 28 :)11:06
FNDaquarius: FWIW, Tilda positioning works fine on Unity2D11:06
gordi'm 25 thanks :P - basically a baby11:06
bigcalmWhat happens after it's 13years old and the alphabet has been exhausted?11:09
MartijnVdSbigcalm: lots of alphabets left11:10
AlanBellbigcalm: he speaks russian11:10
gordcan't wait till we use the galactic alphabet, then we can have nyan cat as an animal11:12
diploNerds +111:13
gordi assume mark is fluent in it, for obvious reasons11:13
AlanBelldavmor2: thanks. The installer still needs some attention, but the big thing is ctrl+s to start speech11:13
oimonwe've had H twice anyway11:18
davmor2gord: you're 25!!!!!! OMG I feel old11:20
MooDoodavmor2: you are old11:20
gord25 AND A HALF thank you11:20
davmor2MooDoo: still younger than you and popey though :P11:20
MooDoodavmor2: pah! what are you now?11:21
davmor2gord: haha11:21
gordi don't think its possible to be older than popey11:21
MooDoogord: /me is i think11:21
gordnah its like the universal constant11:21
diplo<-- 3511:21
davmor2gord: I thought the universal constant was popey is always to blame?11:21
* MooDoo <-- 39 [40 in april] :S11:24
bigcalmHumm, kindle update. What new goodies will it give me this time I wonder11:25
gorddavmor2, no thats universal causality. it explains entropy11:25
MartijnVdSbigcalm: "new Kindle"?11:25
MartijnVdSbigcalm: or old model?11:25
bigcalmMartijnVdS: last one11:25
gordthe one with the keyboard?11:26
gorddoes it get updates OTA?11:26
bigcalmgord: yes and yes11:26
oimonthis is the week for updates.. my touchpad got an update too11:26
diploAnyone in here have a eTrayz ( Xtreamer ) device ?11:26
gordcool, should charge mine11:26
gordthough mine likes to suck battery these days =\ don't know why11:26
bigcalmgord: do you have a 3g version?11:27
bigcalmHumm, strange11:27
oimonare batteries replaceable?11:27
gord<fulldisclosure> i put a hacked firmware on there so i could play zork ;)11:27
bigcalmI actually like reading books on mine. So it's unlikely that I'll be messing with the firmware11:30
gordyeah i was just playing, put the ubuntu font on there and replaced the screensaver images with my own ones (covers of megadrive games)11:31
bigcalmI remember that11:32
daubersAlanBell: Should the happy hour map always originate at London?11:34
MartijnVdSdaubers: centre of the universe11:35
daubersMartijnVdS: For londoners anyway :p11:36
gordfor a while the centre of maps.google.co.uk was a few roads down from me, but now they moved it :(11:36
MartijnVdSgord: you can set the default location for maps.google11:38
MartijnVdSat least if you're logged in11:38
penguin42hmm my OO is doing a surprisingly large set of updates11:46
selinuxiumGood afternoon all   :)    /11:52
AlanBelldaubers: it puts them in the order of entry and I got the first two backwards :(11:55
AlanBellI think I will fix it soon, before it becomes too hard to fix11:56
hooverafternoon selinuxium11:57
oimonwow - anyone used gmusicbrowser? there's a menu option that says "Make it look like: rhythmbox, exaile, quodlibert..etc" and it works!11:57
hooveroimon: I tried that one a couple of years ago11:57
oimonhoover: any issues?11:58
oimonjust trying it out in my eternal quest for a usable music player11:58
oimonman there's a whole bunch of layouts possible11:59
hooverI remember it as not too feature rich from back then12:06
* hoover is still stuck with amarok1412:06
MartijnVdSwine winamp :P12:07
hooverI hate winamp with a passion ;-)12:07
hooverI think amarok 1.4 had it all in the bag until they completely changed the UI12:08
gordi remember winamp moving to 3.0 and its Ui was massiiive, now that same ui seems tiny ;)12:13
oimonhoover: amarok 1.4 was ace12:13
popeyduring upgrade to 11.10 I am getting loads of errors adding /etc/ssl/certs/somecertname.pem12:13
gordnot fun12:14
oimonfor years i never used anything else except amarok , even on gnome12:14
diplopopey, My colleague at work had that as well12:22
diploHasn't seemed to affect anything post install12:23
popeyI'll reinstall some certificate based stuff anyway after it finishes12:25
Paul2hello ubunterers.12:29
popeyhello Paul212:31
daubersBah, stupid flooding in Thailand12:32
Paul2hello popey. How many people are you taking to the pub?12:32
popeydunno how many will turn up12:32
popeyat least 6 :D12:32
popeymaybe more12:32
popeymaybe less, maybe just me on my own12:32
Joeb454I don't suppose anybody knows how long it takes for LP to make the change to your default contact address?12:33
Paul2I am quite tempted to turn up...12:33
Paul2popey: does said pub do (good) food? Will you or anyone else be partaking in said food?12:34
daubersI'm coming!!12:34
Paul2(or shall I just pop round yours beforehand and mrs popey can make me a bacon sandwich :D)12:34
MartijnVdSdaubers: you're food?12:34
daubersMartijnVdS: Umm.... probably shouldn't go there in a family friendly environment :p12:34
popeyi dont know if they do food, I don't think so.12:34
daubersHowever, if said pub does said food then I shall probably partake of something12:35
popeyJoeb454: the redirect for your @ubuntu account?12:35
popeyJoeb454: I don't believe it's automatic, Ng maybe able to confirm that12:35
AlanBello/ Paul212:36
daubersWebsite suggests they do the usual burgers/chips stuffs12:36
Paul2hello AlanBell12:36
AlanBellI will be having chips before arrival I think12:36
Ngthere is a manual step12:36
Paul2(if I got the train to frimley I could partake in a McDs on the way... hmm maybe not)12:36
Paul2AlanBell: is there a purveyor of chips within stumbling distance of the station you would recommend?12:37
AlanBellI don't know Paul212:38
Paul2haha good effort nationalrail. last train from frimley to london leaves at 24:43 and gets into paddington at 2:01. helpful. I'll stick with Farnborough Main It hink12:38
Paul2popey: have you booked a table? :p12:42
Joeb454popey: yeah pretty much. Just changed the contact address on LP. Ng what else do I need to do?12:45
NgJoeb454: wait :)12:46
Ngwe usually do verification runs every few days12:46
Joeb454Ng: haha, fair enough. That's fine by me, the only real change to me is that it'll get sorted into a different inbox now12:47
gordkindle charges reeeeally slow over usb13:01
davmor2gord: yeah but a 10 second charge will last like 100 page turns right ;)13:02
freakyclowngrrr the number of stupid bloody bugs in 11.10/unity i can stand before i install bloody windows for stability reasons is slowly running out!13:21
MooDooAlanBell: Laney looks like notts lug are suggesting other talks at ubuntu hour in nov, sounds like it could be a great event.13:22
oimonfreakyclown: last time i heard, there was a bit more choice than only unity ;D13:22
freakyclownnot sure whats causing it so didnt want to just blame unity ;)13:23
AlanBellMooDoo: great!13:24
bigcalmxfce isn't perfect, but it lets me do my job again13:24
oimonrhythmbox users - how can you see the play queue in a reasonable sized window?13:24
LaneyMooDoo: I odn't think they mean talks at that event, but just offers of talks in general13:24
oimonbigcalm: noticing some high memory usage on xfce since adding ubuntuone :(13:24
Laneyoh hey, I can post to the list13:25
Seeker`freakyclown: what bugs?13:25
bigcalmI don't use ubuntuone. Maybe I should uninstall it13:25
freakyclownthe latest one that ive not found a fix for is coming out of screensaver (set to none) cleanly13:26
MooDooand there is your post Laney ::)13:26
oimonbigcalm: actually, since rebooting/crashing, my machine is holding up a bit better13:26
oimonmaybe it was something else (i was playing a bit), and have docky/gnome do and a few other stuffs running. (maybe it was the weather applet)13:26
popeyooo, google hangout with "extras"13:27
popeyyou can name your hangout13:27
bigcalmI should try and get that working on this machine13:27
bigcalmNever used it though13:27
gord"stephen the hangout"13:27
* Laney wants to see what extras popey can offer13:27
freakyclownjust now first nothing comes back, then changing ttys and back i got a white screen then tty swap again, i got a bit more screen back then tty swap again i get everythign back BUT then the mouse disapears tty swap again then mouse reappears then goes repeat that two more times till everything works13:28
oimonmem used 228MB ..thats better :D13:28
popeyfreakyclown: what video card?13:28
oimonnvidia i bet13:28
oimonrips out freakyclown's nividia card without powering off his machine13:28
Laneycouldn't get hangouts to work behind me proxy :(13:28
freakyclown:( its a bloody laptop too :(13:29
freakyclownoimon: its not like its a bloody odd card..it should work fine!13:29
freakyclowninfact it worked very fine under 11.04 and before!13:29
freakyclownsince going to 11.10 ive had nothing but troubles13:29
freakyclownmost of which ive been lucky to fix13:29
TheOpenSourcererMy main desktop has an nvidia card. Means I'm definitely staying on "good ole" 10.10 with menus in windows and such like :-)13:30
Azelphurfreakyclown: 11.10 uses more graphics features that nvidia breaks :p13:31
christelfreakyclown: are you pubbing with us tonight?13:31
Azelphurfreakyclown: are you sure you have the latest nvidia driver installed btw13:31
freakyclownchristel: ?13:32
freakyclownAzelphur: pretty sure!13:32
oimonis there a bug about it on LP?13:32
freakyclownive not looked tbh im trying to work for once!13:33
oimona had a white windows bug on nvidia a while back but that happened when too many windows were open :D13:33
freakyclownnormally easy but found major issues with this bank so they are all over my arse about getting detaisl :(13:33
freakyclownoimon: how many is too many? ;)13:33
popeyswitch to nouveau for a bit?13:33
christelfreakyclown: you're useless! http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1277/detail/13:33
oimonfreakyclown: or maybe switch to unity2d and disable compiz to check13:34
freakyclownchristel: not many going LOL13:34
oimonbug 74771713:35
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 747717 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "11.04 - opening too many windows causes new windows to render blank white" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/74771713:35
freakyclownnah wasnt that13:35
freakyclownit was resuming from screensaver13:35
freakyclownit just happened to go white this time13:35
christelfreakyclown: true! they're all staying home to be at the ubuntu-uk irc meeting instead.. :s13:35
freakyclownrather than blank or crash13:35
christelbecause AlanBell has amazing scheduling skills!13:35
bigcalmFound a weirdness with my webcam. It works just fine the 1st time it's accessed. If something stops using it, the next time it's accessed, the colours are wrong13:35
Seeker`bah, farnborough is a little too far for me13:35
freakyclownchristel: id rather irc meet tbh as i have a ton of coding to do :/13:36
christeltsk tsk13:36
freakyclowni have projects coming out my ears atm :(13:36
freakyclownboth work and personal :(13:37
Seeker`Farnborough is about 40 miles too far13:37
popeyIt's nearby.13:38
popeyIt can't be too far13:38
AlanBellpatches welcome13:38
MartijnVdSit's on the wrong side of the North Sea :(13:38
oimoncould have it at the centre of the earth. most people are roughly the same distance13:38
penguin42bigcalm: Have you got Nvidia graphics and is this only with cheese?13:38
popeymmmmmmm cheese13:38
* penguin42 decides it's safest not to follow that link13:39
bigcalmPendulum: I do and no, weirdness on skype and google plus hangout13:39
Seeker`AlanBell: you should move the pub closer to me13:39
AzelphurI want to book a ride in the private jet :o13:39
penguin42bigcalm: Hmm there are a set of bugs with people having odd colours on 11.10 with webcams - all have been nvidia users, but I'm not sure if it really is Nvidia specific13:39
AzelphurLive right near an airport would totally be convenient13:39
* penguin42 swings back to bigcalm13:40
gordpenguin42, choose a different resolution13:40
gordfor the webcam13:40
penguin42gord: Tell bigcalm that - I don't have one13:40
gordbigcalm, then13:40
gordbigcalm, messes up all my tab completes13:40
gordits not nvidia specific either13:40
bigcalmLets have a look at cheese13:41
penguin42gord: Have you got a non-nvidia bug report for it - I've been triaging a few and all the ones I've seen so far are13:41
gordpenguin42, it happens on my non nvidia laptop13:41
penguin42gord: OK13:41
penguin42bugs 878496 877508 and 877554 were the ones I'd spotted13:41
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 878496 in cheese (Ubuntu) "Odd colors in cheese in 11.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87849613:41
oimonprobably mould13:43
bigcalmI think I've killed cheese :)13:43
bigcalmTempted to get one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Playstation-Eye-Camera-EyeCreate/dp/B000W3YQ1Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319117832&sr=8-113:46
bigcalmMy dad uses two with his archery coaching (they can do 100fps and the quality is great)13:47
gordit is?13:48
gorddoesn't seem great for me13:48
* bigcalm shrugs13:48
bigcalmOr your standards might be higher ;)13:49
gordwell i only know from the ps3, it runs at like 320x240 or something and lots of noise13:49
davmor2bigcalm: what did you do grill the cheese to death?13:49
bigcalmdavmor2: I looked at it13:49
davmor2bigcalm: that would do it ;)13:50
gordtrying it outlets see what its like on the buntu's13:50
gordoh wow thats pretty good13:50
gordvery high framerate and very little lag13:51
freakyclownanyone have ubuntu 32bit with nvcc/cuda installed13:54
bigcalmgord: the eye?13:54
gordbigcalm, yup, grabbed it off my tv, put it in the machine, just works13:55
bigcalmAnd did it 'just work' without faffing with extra drivers?13:55
gord640x480 max13:55
bigcalmWorth getting one for 18 quid then13:55
gorda little bit grainy, cheese crashed when i tried to record video13:55
bigcalmgord: I'd blame Unity13:56
bigcalm(blame Unity for everything)13:56
gordhttp://ubuntuone.com/60oerxL73N3qtY5OwvVAWF - i love cheese - too much fun13:56
Dave2how did I read posts as goats :(13:59
PendulumDave2: that's why we love you14:00
Laneymmm curried goat14:00
oimoni seem to have inherited a CMS and i am in danger of destroying everything :(14:03
bigcalmWhich one?14:06
davmor2oimon: Woohoo! can you video it for us please?14:07
hoovercheers for now, catch you laters14:08
oimonbigcalm: drupal14:08
bigcalmCarry on14:08
oimonmy drupal guy left and i have to do some stuff on it ...i have ride "drive blind" on the stereo...very apt14:08
AzelphurI use drupal for all my stuff14:13
oimonAzelphur: any experience with drush migrate command?14:13
oimonsad face14:17
DJonesJust seen the picture of Gadaffi being put out on the news networks, not sure it looks that much like him, unless he's been hiding in McDonalds14:18
bigcalmIs there a decent MySQL GUI similar in usability to SQLyog? SQLyog worked just fine in 11.04, but crashes in 11.1014:18
oimonDJones: he's dead?14:18
DJonesoimon: Thats whats being reported14:18
oimonthe pic in the telegraph looks more coloner saunders than mcdonalds14:19
oimonat risk of talking politics, governments always seem to forget that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend14:20
oimonAzelphur: do you know how i can search my entire drupal site for occurrences of hyperlinks in a certain format?14:37
oimoni think it's this http://drupal.org/project/linkchecker but not sure how to check the whole site rather than the My Account ones14:39
Azelphurthat's fancy :D14:39
oimonah, i can see it from reports->broken links14:39
oimononly when the page is saved though14:40
oimoni'm way out of my depth with this14:40
Azelphurhehe it is a complicated beast, but you'll get there :)14:41
oimonnot sure i want to :-\14:42
Azelphurwhy not?14:42
oimonit's a complicated site involving data imports from other DBs etc running nightly. i'm the IT manager..i used to have a dude to do this stuff for me14:43
oimoni'm always surprised by the lack of detailed ubuntu knowledge by commenters on slashdot. they always like to appear they know everything :)14:50
gordonjcpin 11.10 how do I get it to stop trying to dim my screen?14:58
gordonjcpand, indeed, how do I get it to turn the bloody backlight on?14:58
gordonjcpah, uncheck "dim screen to save power"15:01
gordonjcpand move the slider all the way to the left, now I'm at 1/4 normal brightness15:01
DJonesgordonjcp: I've got a similar problem, at boot my screen as at minimal brightness, I have to reset the brightness every boot and it doesn't retain the setting15:13
bigcalmIs it possible to sync contacts between google apps and Thunderbird?15:14
DJonesI did use a 3rd party add on a while back to do that, but it wasn't 100% sucessful15:15
gordonjcpDJones: annoyingly even the brightness control buttons don't work15:15
DJonesbigcalm: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/thunderbird/addon/google-contacts/15:16
DJonesgordonjcp: I've not tried the control buttons, not something I'd considered15:17
dipl0Also another one made by Zimbra i think bigcalm15:17
dipl0Again it's not great15:17
=== dipl0 is now known as diplo
diplobest one so far is the built in one in evolution15:17
oimonbigcalm: http://www.zindus.com/faq-thunderbird/ ?15:18
bigcalmAh well, ta15:18
tim_is there a uk alternative to system7615:18
popeysystem76 ship to the uk15:18
popeyand no, not really15:18
oimonfor laptops?15:19
tim_just want to minimise the shipping costs15:20
popeykogan or whoever they're called15:21
popeysee nakedcomputers.org15:21
bigcalmJust installed Google contacts 0.6.37 - did exactly what I wanted15:21
DJonespopey: One you might find interesting (specially as it mentions Sounder at the bottom) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/20/shuttleworth_ubuntu_12_04/15:21
DJonesOnly as passing comments, but still gets 2 paragraphs out it15:22
popeythey link to a 3 post thread15:23
popeythey could have picked a better thread to link to15:23
DJonesWeren't there some 300 post threads about the closure, but it is the Register, quick & dirty, get the story out first15:24
bigcalmgordonjcp: that's creepy15:24
oimonshame productivity isn't there too..that's the main thing i lost in unity15:26
ali1234that regsiter story calls unity a "touch-based interface"15:39
bigcalmLooks like it should be15:41
oimonin fact it requires more typing than ever15:42
gordit also says "Ubuntu 12.01 LTS" - i'm pretty sure they don't proof read15:47
gordthey actually consistently say 12.0115:47
bigcalmLets have it 3 months early then :D15:47
oimonunless they are copy-pasting quotes from sadfl15:47
Laneyno, it switches to 12.04 later on15:47
oimoncomments link is broken too15:53
TheOpenSourcererI think esr got it pretty much bang on in his post. Think I might well be taking a looksy at xfce in the near future. Although Maverick is still awesome IMHO.16:05
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: xfce isn't a bad experience once you get used to it16:09
bastubisUnity won't load after some updates a couple of days ago16:09
bastubisjust had to roll my laptop back to natty16:10
bastubisafter wasting a day trying to fix/reinstall oneiric16:10
penguin42bastubis: How did it fail?16:10
bastubisGot the login screen OK, logged in, desktop half loaded then just sat there16:11
bastubisso it drew the desktop, but no status bar at top right and no launcher16:11
bastubisno lens16:11
ali1234that means driver fail16:11
bastubisno network16:11
bastubiswell, yeah, but which one?16:11
ali1234graphics driver16:11
ali1234depends what graphics card you have16:11
bastubiswhy would they replace the graphics driver?16:11
bastubisI've been running Oneiric on here since beta 116:12
penguin42graphics drivers always get updated because of other bugs16:12
bastubisah, well, oneiric is now unuseable on my Lenovo16:12
bastubiscan't even install it, installer crashes16:12
penguin42which Lenovo?16:12
bastubisG somethign - hang on16:12
bastubisIt's been pretty useless with oneiric all along16:13
bastubisfrom the start, the desktop was taking 6+ minutes to load16:13
bastubisI gather there's a networking bug on some Lenovos but can't find anyone else having the same problems with the desktop not loading16:14
bastubisthis is the graphics: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)16:15
penguin42hmm I didn't think the intel drivers had changed much; it could easily be something other than the driver16:16
bastubiswell, I thought there'd be loads of people screaming if it was an intel chip16:16
bastubisthat's why I didn't think it was that16:16
bastubisalso, the installer was crashing right at the end, probably creating the bootloader16:17
bastubisalthough you can't tell anymore what it's doing16:17
directhexi was a big XFCE4 user around 2003-200516:17
bastubisit's pretty annoying and nothing jumped out of the logs to make sense of it16:19
bastubisnot that I have that much idea what I'm doing ;)16:19
* daubers goes home16:37
MartijnVdSpopey: http://www.jemmatzan.com/2011/10/unity-is-the-end-of-ubuntu.html16:37
ali1234another highly accurate post16:39
Laneyerm erm erm erm16:40
Laneyanyone's spotify for linux just crapped out on them?16:40
Laney"use of this device is not enabled for your account"16:40
bigcalmDo you have a paid account?16:41
bigcalmNot that it should make a difference16:41
Laneyit's always worked16:41
Laneyam I being spanked because I don't have it linked to FB?16:42
ali1234yes you have to link it with a facebook account now16:43
ali1234according to slashdot anyway16:43
Laneyfor new accounts16:43
Laneyerror code 406: Please upgrade your subscription to Spotify Premium to access your account on this device16:44
bigcalmHas your credit card changed?16:44
Laneyi still have a subscription, but it's unlimited16:45
TheOpenSourcererMartijnVdS: Ouch - that's quite a hard-hitting post although I'm mostly in agreement again.16:45
Laneynot premium16:45
ali1234btw why are we sending unity rants to popey?16:49
ali1234is he collecting them or something?16:50
jacobwperhaps i'm in a minority, but i prefer unity on my netbook to gnome216:51
gordonjcpali1234: yeah16:51
gordonjcpjacobw: I don't prefer it to gnome 2, but I prefer it to gnome 316:51
jacobwkeyboard control is much better16:52
gordonjcpI can't figure gnome 3 out at all16:52
gordonjcphow are you supposed to switch windows?16:52
ali1234i agree16:53
jacobwgordonjcp: by mousing around16:54
ali1234with unity i can at least understand how some people could like it16:56
bastubisheh, I'm having almost exactly the same problems he is16:57
ali1234i can see what the designers were trying to do16:57
bastubisjust had to roll back to natty16:57
bastubisI already tried upgrading from Natty rather than doing a clean install, but the desktop doesn't load properly16:57
ali1234upgrading never works properly16:58
bastubisI tried a clean isntall first16:58
bastubisinstaller crashed16:58
ali1234installer will crash with certain set of options16:58
bastubisit had no options16:58
ali1234yes it does16:58
bastubisvanilla installation, tried it 3 times, crashed every time16:58
ali1234there is one that says "download updates"16:58
bastubisdidn't tick it16:59
ali1234and another one that says "install additional software"16:59
bastubisdidn't tick it16:59
ali1234anyway dinner time16:59
Paul2right. spose I better head off if I'm going to the pub17:21
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Seven Years Old - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/20/seven-years-old/17:27
TheOpenSourcererhah hah - you need a webgl capable browser but this is pretty cool: http://www.biomotionlab.ca/Demos/webgl_walker/webgl_walker.php17:29
MartijnVdSTheOpenSourcerer: why is it walking backwards?17:39
directhexfor christmas, across the irish sea?17:41
directhexbecause 1950s radio comedy is always topical!17:42
gordonjcpand someone threw a batter pudding at it17:46
popeyEvening all17:46
TheOpenSourcererlo popey17:47
popeyLaney: my spotify works17:47
TheOpenSourcererBe seeing you later17:47
popeyLaney: i dont have it linked to fb17:47
TheOpenSourcererAlanBell: is kindly chaffering me17:47
popeywhat time you aiming to get there?17:48
TheOpenSourcererI was dogging last night.17:48
* AlanBell has to eat some fish and chips first17:48
TheOpenSourcererWhen AlanBell delivers me I guess.17:48
^aDaMEvening popey :-)17:50
davmor2popey: evening17:53
christelpopey: i think they are grabbing me at 7.30 so i guess 8ish :)17:54
tonytigerWe'll be there by 8pm hopefully17:57
* TheOpenSourcerer just coughed up £95 to go on a "speed awareness" course.18:00
TheOpenSourcererIn lieu of 3 points18:00
mgdm"Yes, I am aware of it. Why do you think I'm here?"18:03
TheOpenSourcererHopefully they will explain how to avoid getting caught.18:03
mgdmJust drive fast enough that the camera doesn't see you?18:04
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: right, all set, see you in a bit, then christel, then pub :)18:17
christelsee you shortly <318:18
AlanBellIRC meeting at 9PM peeps18:18
AlanBellin #ubuntu-uk-meeting18:18
AlanBelland in the pub :)18:18
TheOpenSourcererNeed to stop at a cashpoint somewhere along the way.18:20
freakyclownoh yay another thing broken in 11.10 :(18:25
freakyclowncan no longer drag images from a browser into a folder18:26
freakyclownmakes a link insted18:26
MartijnVdSOMG MapsGL on Google Maps is COOL18:28
AzelphurMartijnVdS: :o trying it now18:30
Azelphurit's certainly a lot smoother :D18:30
MartijnVdSit's even working quite quick on Intel (pre-SandyBridge i3)18:31
MartijnVdSMost of the features were already in maps on mobile (android)18:32
freakyclownyeah been playing with them onmy tablet18:33
AzelphurMy A&L card expired, I now have a ugly Santander one...it's scaring me :(18:34
AzelphurHas anyone looked into the whole occupy wall street "you should be using a credit union" thing?18:35
MartijnVdSAzelphur: that's quite American I think18:35
MartijnVdSat least in the Netherlands there isn't much of a distinction18:35
Azelphurtrue, but I'm kinda interested in alternatives to banks anyway18:35
Azelphursince I'm with the worst bank on the planet and I get practically no interest whatsoever and would probably be better storing my money under my pillow right now.18:35
MartijnVdSAzelphur: http://www.rabobank.com/ ;)18:36
MartijnVdSAzelphur: don't know if they do "normal" account in the UK, probably not18:36
Azelphuryea atm I have a current and savings, to give you some idea I've had £2000 in my savings account for a year, I got £1.3618:36
MartijnVdSthat's bad18:36
MartijnVdSI get 1.5%18:36
freakyclownAzelphur: do what i do... take out a bit of cash goto casino play games come back with 400% interest :)18:37
MartijnVdSfreakyclown: You should start a casino, way better odds18:37
Azelphurfreakyclown: and I did that too, I played bitcoin and won :D18:38
ali1234Azelphur: get a cash ISA18:40
ali1234you will get about 3% interest and no tax18:41
Azelphur:o madness?18:41
Azelphurwhat's the downside to that18:41
ali1234there is no downside18:41
Azelphurso I can take my money out whenever I like18:41
ali1234there are differentt ypes18:42
ali1234i have a 1 year one18:42
ali1234i can take the money out any time but i lose the interest if i take it out before 1 year18:42
ali1234but i get higher interest rate18:43
ali1234anyway it beats the 0.05% you probably get on a regular bank savings account18:43
Azelphuranother semi-related question is does anyone here have some kind of gadget insurance?18:44
AzelphurI'm sure lots of us continually play with equipment worth £1000+, is there anything that covers things like that?18:44
Azelphurthat's boring :(18:44
MartijnVdSI have "normal" insurance for house fires and burglary etc.18:44
MartijnVdSAnd most gadget-breakage is warranty18:45
MartijnVdS+ common sense (don't use your Xoom in the rain)18:45
Azelphurwoot found the button that stops santander pummeling me with physical statements too18:48
AzelphurMartijnVdS: yea, I was thinking something that would cover mobile gadgets too18:49
MartijnVdSAzelphur: like when you're 'on the go'?18:49
Azelphurindeed, laptops and phones that sort of thing18:49
MartijnVdSAzelphur: gym membership is probably cheaper and more effective ;)18:50
MartijnVdSLaptop thieves prefer stealing laptops from scrawny geeks, not muscly men18:50
Azelphurthat's true18:51
MartijnVdSmost laptops are stolen from cars (while unattended) over here18:52
AlanBellyay, we are in the pub19:07
AlanBelland I am full of fail as I forgot to bring a box of Oneiric CDs19:08
penguin42Your chickens stole them?19:10
diploAlanBell, not missing much with forgetting them though19:14
diploWas debating about training down, but 2 hour trip because of train works19:15
diploAnd bloody expensive19:16
diploCheaper to drive down19:16
gordonjcpdiplo: you should try it from Glasgow19:16
gordonjcpdiplo: for two people to get a train down to Farnham, 800 quid19:17
gordonjcpif I didn't already have a van I could have bought one, taxed and insured it, and fuelled it for the whole trip19:17
diploCosts me £130 to get train to nottingham, with 3/4 stops for my pleasure19:18
penguin42yeh train prices are silly19:18
gordonjcpand the environmental lobby wonder why people won't take trains19:18
diploYup, I'd use them all the time if it was cheaper19:19
smittixevening all19:19
* penguin42 wouldn't mind going to London occasionally, but I can't really justify the ~100+ it costs or be organised enough to know when I'm going to go to get it cheap19:19
gordcosts me £40 to get to london in under two hours from crewe19:19
MartijnVdSpenguin42: weird thing is, it costs £100-ish for me too.. and I'm coming from the Netherlands19:19
penguin42gord: booked how far in advance?19:20
gordpenguin42, not on the day :) but not weeks in advance, just travel on off-peak times19:20
ali1234you only have to book 1 day before to get advance rates19:21
ali1234you pay £120 on the day for a return19:21
ali1234or like £40 if you book it the day before19:21
ali1234(nottingham to london)19:21
penguin42£70 for next day Manc->London return off peak19:22
gordonjcpali1234: but that's still 40 quid to go 120 miles19:22
ali1234or you can get the coach for like £1219:22
* penguin42 should try coaches some time19:22
gordonjcpthat's like a tenner's worth of diesel, although it does sound like the coach is doing it below cost19:23
penguin42gordonjcp: Well it's not just one person on the coach!19:23
gordonjcppenguin42: yeah, my arithmetic sucks19:24
gordgordonjcp, if you own a car then its better to go in a car of course ;) if your like me, its much cheaper to take the train19:24
gordno insurance to pay, no MOT, no nufink'19:24
gordonjcppenguin42: I guess once you've got enough people to pay for the 22 gallons of diesel the coach will use it's making money again19:24
gordonjcpgord: company vehicle, licence for 16 years, 24 years no-claims...19:25
penguin42gord: Yeh it is nice that; I guess I should be less tight about doing longer train journeys and just remember how much it would cost me if I had a car; the problem is the waking up and 'I fancy going to. ....' costs are silly19:25
gordonjcpso basically my private car insurance lets me drive damn near anything with fully comp insurance, short of the space shuttle19:26
jacobwhi SuprEngr19:44
jacobware you chairing the meeting tonight?19:44
Azelphurdrupal module development is frustrating me :/19:45
AzelphurI've wrote the module, it took about a day to do. I've spent the past 5 days trying to make the config menu, don't get any help on the drupal channel, gah. :(19:45
AlanBellmeeting shortly19:58
AlanBellanyone know what application does the UNR buttons?19:58
MartijnVdSAlanBell: UNR buttons?19:58
AlanBellnetbook edition19:58
AlanBellnetbook remix launcher thing?19:59
AlanBellmeeting about to start in #ubuntu-uk-meeting20:01
popeybut but but, I'm in the pub20:01
SuprEngrhi jacobw - nah... the world's first 1minute op is all Iam20:07
Andres-kainany layout editor recomended for *.gdsII files?21:16
gordonjcpdwatkins: aha, I thought I'd seen the nick before21:40
tonytigerAh ha, there was another xserver-xorg-core / xserver-xorg-common update waiting21:47
tonytigerproblem solved21:47
dwatkinsgordonjcp: hehe, hi here also21:48
penguin42Andres-kain: Chip design?22:29
penguin42Andres-kain: You could try 'electric' - I think it can do GDS; I'm not sure if geda ever made it to the point of being able to22:30
Andres-kainyep heard of that one (only one in repo) but have not used it. just checking if others would be recomended... like layouteditor.22:32
penguin42it's been around for many years and still gets updated22:41
issyl0AlanBell, christel: Thanks for the lift home, even though my directions failed slightly.  :P22:43
ali1234Andres-kain: a couple of months ago i tested every single chip design program i could find in the repos, plus a whole load that aren't22:43
penguin42ali1234: Did you find any that worked?22:44
ali1234i found two types of programs basically22:44
ali1234ones that i couldn't understand how to use at all22:44
ali1234and ones that crashed or didn't work properly22:44
penguin42frankly, ones that no one can understand how to use is pretty normal for chip design programs - I worked at one place that had paid ~£1M/seat for some, and we tried to use one feature and phoned up having got it mostly working and they were surprised we had got that far - apparently no one else had without having one of their guys on site22:45
ali1234well, i was actually looking for some kind of logic simulator type thing22:46
ali1234everything is either designed for industrial use (can't understand it) or educational use (unfinished, broken, way too simple etc)22:47
ali1234the best tool i found was klogic which is on the educational end... doesn't support heirarchical design and crashes a lot22:48
ali1234and it needs KDE322:48
penguin42ali1234: Did you try electric?22:48
ali1234can't remember?22:48
ali1234i will try it now22:48
penguin42it is the best known - it's widely used22:48
ali1234does it have a simulator?22:49
ali1234cos i need a simulator...22:49
penguin42no tsure, it's a long time since I looked - I think it's more at the GDS layout end than high level stuff, but I think it has stuff that spans the lot22:49
ali1234when i was at university we had a nice package that we used with the FPGA boards to do logic design22:50
ali1234it had a built in simulator too so you didn't actually need the hardware22:50
ali1234it had a parts library with all the 74 logic chips already made22:50
ali1234plus you could design your own chips and then just drop them into more complex designs22:50
ali1234i'm just looking for something like that22:50
penguin42ali1234: That's quite different from a chip design package which wrangles GDS22:51
ali1234ah yes i did try electric before22:51
ali1234fits in the "i can't understand this" category22:52
ali1234that probably explains why i can't understand it22:53
penguin42GDS wranglers can stare at pictures with a few coloured blobs on and see transistors pop out22:54
* popey moos and goes to sleep22:54
popeynice to see you issyl022:55
ali1234i don't want to have to deal with anything lower level than NAND gates22:55
issyl0popey: You too!22:55
issyl0popey: Moo!22:55
* popey farts on AlanBell for not bringing CDs :D22:56
Andres-kainpenguin42 ali1234 i started witn coventorware for mems and it now looks like it might be L-edit22:57
penguin42ooh mems stuff, fun22:57
Andres-kaini wanted something to work from home.22:57
penguin42Andres-kain: I've never looked at MEMS tools22:58
Andres-kainl-edit will be just simple one or two layer mask design22:58
Andres-kainpenguin42 it is mental. you simulate electically then mechanically then do the layout and after that simulate foundry process...22:59
Andres-kainand then get it wrong and only realize when the wafer came back23:00
penguin42Andres-kain: Wow, erm I'm not sure what free stuff there is that can do that, I suspect electric will display and let you edit your GDS, but it won't have a clue about the mechanics23:00
penguin42Andres-kain: Yeh I've seen dead chip runs come back from fabs - it's kind of erm a quiet moment in a lab when that happens23:00
Andres-kainbut cool experience. when licence is over 40 k£ you kinda think it was an over kill23:01
penguin42that's cheap for a chip tool!23:02
Andres-kainmechanics should be able to mesh and send to elmer i hope.23:02
Andres-kainbut maybe ahead of myself.23:02
Andres-kainjust see gdsii should be enough i'll give electric a shove.23:03
Andres-kainpenguin42 we got uni@discount for a while23:04
Andres-kainand did not buy all the packages.23:04
Andres-kainpenguin42 what is the range of your stuff moneywise?23:05
penguin42Andres-kain: I haven't done anything with that level of chip design for many years; ~10 years ago I was working for some chip design startups and they had people doing VHDL where the licenses were anything from a few K/seat upt to the guys doing GDS and extraction maybe at £1M/seat23:07
penguin42and stuff in the latest gen of chips is so mad; things like the optical proximity correction stuf f- that's somewhere between physics, maths and pure magic23:10
Andres-kainvhdl was very high density layout? still did not have the need. 10 years? was it the begining of ARM?23:10
penguin42Andres-kain: No, vhdl is high level design language stuff - you're think of VLSI23:10
Andres-kainoptical proximity correction? wow. lots to learn.23:12
penguin42Andres-kain: The lines they are drawing on the chip are smaller than the wavelength of light they are using to draw them; this is obviously impossible so they have to cheat23:14
Andres-kainahh ok.23:16
Andres-kainpenguin42 how do they go about that FIB? chemical etching seems to lack control, right?23:17
penguin42Andres-kain: No, it's still etching - they use multiple overlapping masks which optically interfere to produce about the right shape - as I say somewhere between physics/maths/magic!23:18
Andres-kainwell better get to bed. exciting things await23:19
penguin42have fun :-)23:20
christelissyl0: haha it was lovely <323:21
Andres-kainthanks penguin42 for a nice chat!23:22
penguin42no problem - I'm jealous of you for being able to play with MEMS!23:22
Andres-kainnothing to glam for the moment. and i'm only on the side... there is an open day at NPL in case you want to visit.23:26
penguin42it's a bit of a treck for me, but sounds fun23:30
Andres-kainif i remeber to how to send a personal chat i'll give you email in case you are in area.23:31
Andres-kaingood night!23:32

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