[06:23] <MartijnVdS> _another_ cups update? *sigh*
[06:48] <popey> Morning
[06:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[06:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> My son James is off to school shortly. He's giving a presentation today...
[06:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> On Minecraft :-D
[06:54] <popey> hah
[06:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Both my boys seem horribly addicted.. Have now tightened up the time they have on the machine using Timekpr
[06:56] <popey> have you got a server at home?
[06:56] <popey> or do they use other remote servers?
[06:56] <popey> or just play local games
[06:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not one big enough to run it I think.
[06:57] <popey> for 2 players you dont need much
[06:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think they are just running a local client(?) if that is the right word.
[06:57] <popey> yeah
[06:57] <popey> i run a server on an acer revo ☺
[06:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> My server has 1GB of ram and is a VIA C7 downclocked to 1GHz ;-)
[06:58] <czajkowski> aloha all
[06:58] <popey> heh
[06:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning czajkowski
[06:59] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: ello ello
[07:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Seen these high-level goals for 10.04? http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2011/10/20/precision-planning-prepping-for-12-04-lts/ Sounds encouraging. I might be able to upgrade my desktop next year ;-)
[07:25] <christel> morning czajkowski, popey, TheOpenSourcerer :)
[07:31] <daubers> Morning
[07:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> hi christel
[07:36] <christel> hey hey
[07:36] <christel> (and hi daubers)
[07:51] <danfish> morning
[07:51] <diplo> Morning
[07:53] <hoover> morning all
[07:58] <DJones> Morning
[08:07] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:08] <bigcalm> Ello wake things
[08:12]  * DJones returns a "lo" to bigcalm as its half a "Ello" and I'm only half awake
[08:13] <bigcalm> :)
[08:19] <AlanBell> ehlo
[08:21] <MooDoo> morning AlanBell
[08:21] <DJones> Sheesh, this sounds  abit too much like big brother http://activepolitic.com:82/News/2011-10-19d/EU_Parliament_Debates_Installing_A_Black_Box_On_Your_Computer.html
[08:21] <christel> morning bells
[08:25] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[08:25] <oimon> DJones: knowing italian politicians, there is probably a monetary incentive
[08:25] <DJones> :)
[08:26] <DJones> I'm sure they'll pay tax on it
[08:26] <oimon> i was thinking more likely shares in the company
[08:28] <oimon> DJones: strangely, Logbox is completely different to what they said it is
[08:28] <oimon> i think they linked to the wrong site
[08:31]  * daubers needs stronger coffee
[08:31] <bigcalm> Has anybody written a GUI or web interface for get-iplayer?
[08:31] <oimon> bigcalm: i've seen something related
[08:34] <oimon> bigcalm: the old get_iplayer had an interface built in http://linuxcentre.net/getiplayer/get_iplayer-pvr-manager
[08:34] <smittix> morning all
[08:34] <bigcalm> I see
[08:34] <bigcalm> Ta
[08:35] <JamesTait> Good morning all!
[08:35] <christel> bigcalm! *squeze*
[08:35] <christel> plus spelling
[08:35] <MooDoo> time to go home yet? lol
[08:35] <smittix> training all day :/
[08:36] <christel> MooDoo: yes
[08:36] <christel> morning JamesTait
[08:36] <hoover> morning!
[08:36] <hoover> hey biggie
[08:37] <bigcalm> christel: *yummy squeeze*
[08:37] <bigcalm> Hiya hoovie
[08:38] <smittix> bigcalm: hows the latest version of spotify? it has better integration doesnt it?
[08:42] <bigcalm> smittix: *shrug*
[08:42] <bigcalm> smittix: it works, haven't noticed much
[08:42] <bigcalm> smittix: It does appear in the volume control, not sure how long it's done that for though
[08:44] <smittix> Im having some weird issues with VLC at the minute. Sound is out of sync on every video i play. I keep having to delay the audio by 150ms
[08:45] <bigcalm> WEird
[08:46] <gord> vlc has gotten crappy the past few releases =\
[08:48] <smittix> Every other media player works flawlessly
[08:48] <bigcalm> oimon: the perl web interface doesn't work out of the box. Looks like I'll need to fix it 1st :(
[08:49] <bigcalm> That's a shame. I've just got my dad away from WMP and onto VLC
[08:49] <bigcalm> In other news: new ram for Revo has arrived \o/
[08:49] <bigcalm> Time to butcher my revo :D
[08:53] <bigcalm> Poor revo hasn't been turned off in such a long time
[08:53] <bigcalm> Really pleased at how well it has coped
[08:53] <AlanBell> anyone seen resizing terminal windows scrolls up in 11.10?
[08:54] <AlanBell> quite annoying when using screen sessions
[08:54] <DJones> AlanBell: I haven't noticed that
[08:55] <DJones> As far as my use has gone, its been the same (but screen is running on a remote machine on 11.04) its the machine I physically use that has 11.10
[08:55] <AlanBell> particularly when making a window taller
[08:55] <AlanBell> yeah, only the client end matters
[08:56] <AlanBell> and using the standard gnome-terminal
[09:06] <oimon> my 11.10 machine with 1GB RAM just OOMd :(
[09:07] <popey> http://popey.com/blog/2011/10/20/happy-hour-comes-to-farnborough/
[09:07] <popey> \o/
[09:11] <daubers> \o/
[09:11]  * daubers needs to book some train tickets
[09:15] <bigcalm> popey: put 4gb into the revo and free -m shows just over 3gb is available. Where in the bios can I fix this?
[09:16] <popey> you cant
[09:16] <bigcalm> Sod
[09:16] <popey> MemTotal:        3316336 kB
[09:17] <popey> thats how much mine shows
[09:17] <bigcalm> Mem:       3096364
[09:18] <oimon> computer future are evil
[09:19] <oimon> job agency. they are spamming my work address from all directions with unsolicited mail, and when i sent email to their data-audit address requesting complete removal, i get a reply "thanks for adding yourself to our database"
[09:20] <bigcalm> I'm sure we've all had this convo before, but I don't remember the answer. How do you find out if you have 32bit of 64bit ubuntu?
[09:20] <oimon> uname -a
[09:20] <bigcalm> Linux revo 2.6.32-34-generic #77-Ubuntu SMP Tue Sep 13 19:40:53 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux
[09:20] <bigcalm> Looks like it's 32bit then
[09:20] <oimon> yep
[09:20] <bigcalm> Sod
[09:21] <bigcalm> I really didn't want to mess with the OS on it
[09:21] <bigcalm> Oh well. At least the eeepc 1000 gets some new memory now :)
[09:22] <daubers> bigcalm: You could just install the pae kernel
[09:22] <popey> bigcalm: you can reduce the memory used by the video card
[09:22] <popey> which will give you a tiny bit more
[09:22] <bigcalm> popey: that's the option I was looking for in the bios
[09:27] <oimon> when does the venue for oggcamp get decided ? (if it is happening in 2012)
[09:31] <daubers> In any language does the word "yes" start with an "n"?
[09:32] <bigcalm> Heh
[09:32] <popey> daubers: yes, in arabic
[09:32] <popey> Na'am
[09:32] <daubers> Nuts
[09:32] <daubers> There goes my easy way out :(
[09:32] <popey> and Greek
[09:32] <popey> Nai
[09:32] <bigcalm> I once wrote a very silly basic prog that was set to quit on any key press because of different languages
[09:33] <popey> bigcalm: the option is in the video bit
[09:33] <popey> shared memory hole or something
[09:33] <popey> oimon: we haven't even discussed if there will be an oggcamp 2012
[09:33] <bigcalm> popey: that's what I was looking for but didn't see. Oh well, I'll have a look at the pae kernel
[09:34] <daubers> I've got a curses based program that I'm enabling for translations that expects y/n for yes/no :(
[09:34] <AlanBell> oimon: maybe we should try and get tonytiger and popey drunk enought to pick a venue tonight
[09:34] <oimon> popey: ok thanks. i was already tentatively recruiting people after my first visit this year :P
[09:35] <daubers> oimon: Recruiting for what?
[09:35] <oimon> oggcamp attendance
[09:35] <daubers> ah, ok
[09:35] <MooDoo> daubers: you looking for a new job?
[09:35] <popey> :D
[09:35] <oimon> i am also recruiting for a syadmin very shortly too though
[09:38] <daubers> MooDoo: Depends if people want to pay me £lots more
[09:41] <Myrtti> a job?
[09:42] <AlanBell> Laney: MooDoo: Roundhouse http://ubuntu-uk.org/happy-hour/
[09:43] <Laney> splendid choice
[09:45] <daubers> Hmm... I could goto the Oxford one as well, that's only a £7.20 train trip
[09:46] <AlanBell> it might not be Oxford next
[09:47] <MooDoo> Laney: you going?
[09:47] <AlanBell> could be, but it isn't set in stone
[09:47] <Laney> MooDoo: likely yeah, if others do ...
[09:48] <MooDoo> Laney: cool, meet you there :D
[09:48] <Laney> want to post it to nlug?
[09:48] <MooDoo> Laney: not on the mailing list any more, i'll have to re-add myself
[09:49] <Laney> yeah, silly moderated lists
[09:49] <daubers> AlanBell: No, but when it rolls around it's a viable option :)
[09:49] <MooDoo> Laney: just added myself, i'll email them shortly
[09:50] <MooDoo> Laney: in fact, doing it now :D
[09:50] <Laney> good man
[09:51] <diplo> can't say I've been to the Roundhouse
[09:52]  * diplo sees about organised a trip to HO
[09:52] <diplo> organising*
[09:52] <popey> I just pimped tonights one to Hants and Surrey LUGs
[09:52] <Laney> yeah it's a v nice pub
[09:52] <MooDoo> Laney: ok mail sent :D
[09:54] <daubers> popey: Mind if I steal your text to pimp it to sclug?
[09:54] <daubers> (and possibly reading hackspace)
[09:55] <MooDoo> Laney: i'll be there in my ubuntu tshirt with a xhristmas tux lol
[09:56] <popey> daubers: sure
[09:56] <popey> might get busy in there tonight
[09:56] <daubers> popey: ta
[09:56] <popey> its only a small pub but they have an outdoor area which is covered
[10:00] <bigcalm> Oh joy. Eclipse now ignores the filter on .* when it comes to .svn folders
[10:01] <bigcalm> Messy folder lists :(
[10:01] <daubers> passed on to sclug and rdg hackspace :)
[10:01] <DJones> bigcalm: Was it you that had the Kogan android tablet
[10:01] <popey> I had a dream that I was on Canonical One last night
[10:02] <daubers> "Canonical One"? New TV Channel?
[10:02] <popey> http://www.flickr.com/photos/keybuk/sets/72157603242579632/
[10:02] <daubers> heh
[10:02] <bigcalm> DJones: indeed, I have that pain
[10:03] <DJones> Thought it was, seems like they're bringing another one out http://www.reghardware.com/2011/10/20/kogan_intros_cut_price_8in_10in_android_tablets/
[10:03] <DJones> http://www.kogan.co.uk/shop/10-inch-tablet-pc-android/
[10:04]  * bigcalm shudders
[10:04] <bigcalm> Powerful 1HGz Processor
[10:04] <bigcalm> What technology are they using?!
[10:05] <DJones> I noticed that, great spell technology
[10:05]  * popey upgrades his netbook to 11.10 before tonight
[10:05] <popey> wonder if this is wise
[10:05] <DJones> "Hgz = Hamster Goes Zoom"
[10:05] <bigcalm> HAHA
[10:05] <Daviey> popey: are you crazy?!
[10:05] <popey> You have to ask.
[10:05] <bigcalm> Daviey: yes
[10:05] <bigcalm> davmor2: is popey crazy?
[10:06] <davmor2> bigcalm: always
[10:06] <davmor2> morning all
[10:06] <bigcalm> :D
[10:06] <Daviey> davmor2: stop causing trouble.
[10:06] <MooDoo> motning davmor2
[10:06] <davmor2> bigcalm: any particular reason this time?
[10:07] <davmor2> MooDoo: motning to you too ;)
[10:07] <bigcalm> davmor2: does there need to be a reason?
[10:07] <davmor2> Daviey: what?
[10:07] <MooDoo> davmor2: pah i can't type
[10:07] <Pendulum> Hey, I noticed that the Ben Nevis is listed as a possible Happy Hour spot. It's a fun pub but it's tiny and usually full to the brim. There's another pub just down the road, the Bon Accord, which has just as good beer, but more space. Plus the Bon Accord has flat entry for wheelchairs and the Nevis doesn't.
[10:07] <Pendulum> (this is in Glasgow)
[10:08]  * AlanBell takes note of the advice from our Glasgow correspondent
[10:08] <gordonjcp> Pendulum: the nevis doesn't have flat entry?
[10:08] <davmor2> Daviey: you must of misinterpreted my important role on #ubuntu-uk it is the role of polite trouble maker
[10:08] <bigcalm> I think I just made my 1st post to the mailing list. Weird
[10:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: you make it sound like it is an accident
[10:09] <bigcalm> davmor2: it just surprises me when I do something for the 1st time
[10:09] <Pendulum> gordonjcp: nope. big step in the back and 2 small steps in the front. PITA to get in with a chair TBH
[10:09] <Pendulum> and I've only been in there once where I could actually move my chair once I was inside
[10:09] <davmor2> bigcalm: haha
[10:09] <DJones> bigcalm: You have made your post to the mailing list, interesting reason for not being at the meeting
[10:09] <bigcalm> :D
[10:10] <Pendulum> (last time I had to actually go back outside to get around to the loos it was so crowded)
[10:10] <bigcalm> The gig was booked a long time ago by Hayley.
[10:10] <gordonjcp> Pendulum: it's certainly pretty cramped
[10:10] <DJones> Better than mine anyway, I can't attend because I'm going to the cinema
[10:10]  * bigcalm hugs AlanBell
[10:10] <gordonjcp> Pendulum: iirc the bon has a proper disabled toilet
[10:11] <daubers> bigcalm: I want to go see them! My brother has and said they where amazing
[10:11] <AlanBell> Pendulum: I will check wheelchair access on all future venues
[10:12] <daubers> DJones: Best waiting for the cinema until next week when Tintin comes out
[10:12] <DJones> daubers: Free tickets, so cheap night out
[10:12] <daubers> DJones: Ah, fair enough
[10:13] <bigcalm> daubers: good news :)
[10:13] <AlanBell> Laney: MooDoo: does the roundhouse have wheelchair access?
[10:14] <MooDoo> AlanBell: not sure, i'll see if there is anything on the site, else i'll go do a rekky
[10:15] <AlanBell> great
[10:15] <bigcalm> 11.15am and I haven't had any music on yet. What is the world coming to?
[10:16] <diplo> First thing i do when i sit down
[10:18] <Laney> today i am mostly: shivering in the office
[10:19] <oimon> i took a hot water bottle to work yesterday
[10:19] <MooDoo> Laney: where are you agsain?
[10:19] <Laney> jubilee
[10:19] <Daviey> davmor2: yes!
[10:23] <bigcalm> Anybody here who uses get_iplayer have the file get_iplayer.cgi? I'm struggling to find a working link to download it
[10:24] <Laney> what's get_iplayer.cgi?
[10:24] <Laney> don't have that in .get_iplayer/
[10:25] <bigcalm> A web interface to get_iplayer
[10:25] <davmor2> Daviey: No! .... we are playing the opposites game right?
[10:26] <Laney> any good?
[10:26] <Laney> never heard of it
[10:26] <davmor2> Daviey: I hear good things about the latest server edition I can't wait for 12.04's version
[10:26] <gord> bigcalm, https://code.launchpad.net/get-iplayer
[10:26]  * popey starts do-release-upgrade on his netbewk
[10:26] <popey> Laney: its a bit ropey
[10:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Happy Hour Comes to Farnborough - http://popey.com/blog/2011/10/20/happy-hour-comes-to-farnborough/
[10:27] <DJones> bigcalm: Its also included in ftp://ftp.infradead.org/pub/get_iplayer/
[10:27] <bigcalm> Interesting, thanks guys
[10:28] <davmor2> popey: why not just do upgrade via update-manager you know with that new fangled graphical user interface?
[10:30] <Laney> the cabinet office website is served from ubuntu "Server: Apache/2.2.11 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.6-3ubuntu4.6 with Suhosin-Patch mod_ssl/2
[10:30] <Laney> .2.11 OpenSSL/0.9.8g"
[10:30] <Laney> !!!
[10:31] <AlanBell> which reminds me to chase the cabinet office about another server to be running Ubuntu + ruby on rails
[10:31] <Laney> ref http://www.itp.tuwien.ac.at/~mattems/blog/2011/10/20#meme_president_at — couldn't find any other definitive answers
[10:32] <popey> davmor2: i had a terminal open already
[10:32]  * mgdm +1s Pendulum's suggestion
[10:33] <mgdm> It was probably me that suggested the Ben Nevis, but that was because I didn't realise what it was for, and thought someone was just after a pub :)
[10:33] <MooDoo> Laney: looks like the notts lug team are working on t-shirts :D
[10:33] <davmor2> popey: You'd of done it in the terminal anyway you know it as well as I do ;)
[10:34] <gord> i still don't trust update manager to get me on a new version... i can't even qualify why
[10:36]  * daubers does a coffee run
[10:36] <Laney> that version of php5 was only published in jaunty-security?!?!?
[10:39] <bigcalm> popey: "
[10:39] <bigcalm> I don't want you to think I was hallucinating, but having just looked again it's fine. So whatever it was the passage of time has sorted it out!"
[10:40] <bigcalm> My clients are a funny lot
[10:40] <popey> :D
[10:40] <popey> davmor2: i did consider using update manager
[10:40] <popey> looked at the launcher and saw no icon for it
[10:41] <davmor2> popey: :)
[10:41] <popey> figured it was faster to type "sudo do-release-upgrade" than it would be to press the windows key and search for update manager and wait for that to load
[10:41] <popey> I am of course (as always) right
[10:41] <davmor2> popey: on a plus side there is in Oneiric under the powting icon (power/settings button)
[10:42] <AlanBell> "the powting icon" <- official nomenclature?
[10:42] <gord> one of the things we wanted to do this cycle but didn't get time for, was to launch any command you type in alt+f2 that doesn't match a command in a desktop file (ie; gui app) in a terminal, so then you could of alt+f2 sudo do-release-upgrade :)
[10:42] <popey> is that the official name of it?
[10:42] <popey> Powting
[10:43] <gord> technically its the session indicator ;)
[10:43] <popey> pffft
[10:43] <popey> you and your accuracy
[10:43] <popey> loon
[10:45] <gord> :( how do you close banshee?
[10:45] <davmor2> popey: I prefer powting :)
[10:45] <gord> i opened it and now it stole my media keys and i can't actually quit it to be able to pause my music playing in rb
[10:46] <popey> you dont need to quit
[10:46] <popey> (c) mpt
[10:46] <gord> killall to the rescue i guess
[10:47] <Laney> close it when the music is paused
[10:47] <Laney> (c) canonical design team, indeed
[10:48] <hoover> lol
[10:49] <davmor2> AlanBell: I liked you're post on the the a11y stuff in the installer :) not perfect but getting better by the sound of it :)
[10:51] <tonytiger> Whatever you can't quit, only makes you slower
[10:51] <bigcalm> I can't quit you, tonytiger
[10:52] <popey> Get a room.
[10:54] <tonytiger> A pyroom?
[10:54] <directhex> pyro? mmph mmmph mph!
[10:56] <bigcalm> What shall lunch be today?
[10:56] <Laney> green eggs and ham
[10:56] <bigcalm> I think I should have some before 3pm like I did yesterday :S
[10:57] <popey> It's "disappointing curry" day in the restaurant at work.
[10:57] <popey> I dont think they call it that on the menu though, probably just "curry"
[10:57] <Laney> free sub for me
[10:57] <Laney> which is code for "you have spent too much money at subway"
[10:57] <popey> :D
[10:57] <directhex> it's baguette day in the office today
[10:57] <popey> I made myself a sandwich this morning though.
[10:57] <directhex> which is code for "sausage & mash in the canteen"
[10:58] <MartijnVdS> popey: We add "disappointing" to everything served in our company restaurant
[10:58]  * Laney ought to stop being lazy
[10:58] <popey> So I should eat that.
[10:58] <popey> or save it for pre-pub tea.
[11:02] <hoover> pre-pub...
[11:03] <hoover> sounds good! ;-)
[11:04] <gord> oh, warty was released 7 years ago today. that makes me feel a bit old
[11:04] <gord> just a bit
[11:05] <MooDoo> gord: you are old ;)
[11:06] <diplo> I would have been 28 :)
[11:06] <FND> aquarius: FWIW, Tilda positioning works fine on Unity2D
[11:06] <gord> i'm 25 thanks :P - basically a baby
[11:08] <bigcalm> o.O
[11:09] <bigcalm> What happens after it's 13years old and the alphabet has been exhausted?
[11:10] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: lots of alphabets left
[11:10] <AlanBell> bigcalm: he speaks russian
[11:12] <gord> can't wait till we use the galactic alphabet, then we can have nyan cat as an animal
[11:13] <diplo> Nerds +1
[11:13] <gord> i assume mark is fluent in it, for obvious reasons
[11:13] <AlanBell> davmor2: thanks. The installer still needs some attention, but the big thing is ctrl+s to start speech
[11:18] <oimon> we've had H twice anyway
[11:20] <davmor2> gord: you're 25!!!!!! OMG I feel old
[11:20] <MooDoo> davmor2: you are old
[11:20] <gord> 25 AND A HALF thank you
[11:20] <davmor2> MooDoo: still younger than you and popey though :P
[11:21] <MooDoo> davmor2: pah! what are you now?
[11:21] <davmor2> gord: haha
[11:21] <gord> i don't think its possible to be older than popey
[11:21] <MooDoo> gord: /me is i think
[11:21] <gord> nah its like the universal constant
[11:21] <diplo> <-- 35
[11:21] <davmor2> gord: I thought the universal constant was popey is always to blame?
[11:24]  * MooDoo <-- 39 [40 in april] :S
[11:25] <bigcalm> Humm, kindle update. What new goodies will it give me this time I wonder
[11:25] <gord> davmor2, no thats universal causality. it explains entropy
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "new Kindle"?
[11:25] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: or old model?
[11:25] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: last one
[11:26] <gord> the one with the keyboard?
[11:26] <gord> does it get updates OTA?
[11:26] <bigcalm> gord: yes and yes
[11:26] <oimon> this is the week for updates.. my touchpad got an update too
[11:26] <diplo> Anyone in here have a eTrayz ( Xtreamer ) device ?
[11:26] <gord> cool, should charge mine
[11:26] <bigcalm> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200594320
[11:26] <gord> though mine likes to suck battery these days =\ don't know why
[11:27] <bigcalm> gord: do you have a 3g version?
[11:27] <gord> nope
[11:27] <bigcalm> Humm, strange
[11:27] <oimon> are batteries replaceable?
[11:27] <bigcalm> No
 i put a hacked firmware on there so i could play zork ;)
[11:27] <bigcalm> Ooo
[11:30] <bigcalm> I actually like reading books on mine. So it's unlikely that I'll be messing with the firmware
[11:31] <gord> yeah i was just playing, put the ubuntu font on there and replaced the screensaver images with my own ones (covers of megadrive games)
[11:32] <bigcalm> I remember that
[11:34] <daubers> AlanBell: Should the happy hour map always originate at London?
[11:35] <MartijnVdS> daubers: centre of the universe
[11:36] <daubers> MartijnVdS: For londoners anyway :p
[11:36] <gord> for a while the centre of maps.google.co.uk was a few roads down from me, but now they moved it :(
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> gord: you can set the default location for maps.google
[11:38] <MartijnVdS> at least if you're logged in
[11:46] <penguin42> hmm my OO is doing a surprisingly large set of updates
[11:52] <selinuxium> Good afternoon all   :)    /
[11:52] <selinuxium> o/
[11:55] <AlanBell> daubers: it puts them in the order of entry and I got the first two backwards :(
[11:56] <AlanBell> I think I will fix it soon, before it becomes too hard to fix
[11:57] <hoover> afternoon selinuxium
[11:57] <oimon> wow - anyone used gmusicbrowser? there's a menu option that says "Make it look like: rhythmbox, exaile, quodlibert..etc" and it works!
[11:57] <hoover> oimon: I tried that one a couple of years ago
[11:58] <oimon> hoover: any issues?
[11:58] <oimon> just trying it out in my eternal quest for a usable music player
[11:59] <oimon> man there's a whole bunch of layouts possible
[12:06] <hoover> I remember it as not too feature rich from back then
[12:06]  * hoover is still stuck with amarok14
[12:07] <MartijnVdS> wine winamp :P
[12:07] <hoover> I hate winamp with a passion ;-)
[12:08] <hoover> I think amarok 1.4 had it all in the bag until they completely changed the UI
[12:13] <gord> i remember winamp moving to 3.0 and its Ui was massiiive, now that same ui seems tiny ;)
[12:13] <popey> ugh
[12:13] <oimon> hoover: amarok 1.4 was ace
[12:13] <popey> during upgrade to 11.10 I am getting loads of errors adding /etc/ssl/certs/somecertname.pem
[12:14] <gord> not fun
[12:14] <oimon> for years i never used anything else except amarok , even on gnome
[12:22] <diplo> popey, My colleague at work had that as well
[12:23] <diplo> Hasn't seemed to affect anything post install
[12:23] <diplo> *yet*
[12:25] <popey> heh
[12:25] <popey> I'll reinstall some certificate based stuff anyway after it finishes
[12:29] <Paul2> hello ubunterers.
[12:31] <popey> hello Paul2
[12:32] <daubers> Bah, stupid flooding in Thailand
[12:32] <Paul2> hello popey. How many people are you taking to the pub?
[12:32] <popey> dunno how many will turn up
[12:32] <popey> at least 6 :D
[12:32] <popey> maybe more
[12:32] <popey> maybe less, maybe just me on my own
[12:33] <Joeb454> I don't suppose anybody knows how long it takes for LP to make the change to your default contact address?
[12:33] <Paul2> I am quite tempted to turn up...
[12:34] <Paul2> popey: does said pub do (good) food? Will you or anyone else be partaking in said food?
[12:34] <daubers> I'm coming!!
[12:34] <Paul2> (or shall I just pop round yours beforehand and mrs popey can make me a bacon sandwich :D)
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> daubers: you're food?
[12:34] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Umm.... probably shouldn't go there in a family friendly environment :p
[12:34] <popey> hah
[12:34] <popey> i dont know if they do food, I don't think so.
[12:35] <daubers> However, if said pub does said food then I shall probably partake of something
[12:35] <popey> Joeb454: the redirect for your @ubuntu account?
[12:35] <popey> Joeb454: I don't believe it's automatic, Ng maybe able to confirm that
[12:36] <AlanBell> o/ Paul2
[12:36] <daubers> Website suggests they do the usual burgers/chips stuffs
[12:36] <Paul2> hello AlanBell
[12:36] <AlanBell> I will be having chips before arrival I think
[12:36] <Ng> there is a manual step
[12:36] <Paul2> (if I got the train to frimley I could partake in a McDs on the way... hmm maybe not)
[12:37] <Paul2> AlanBell: is there a purveyor of chips within stumbling distance of the station you would recommend?
[12:38] <AlanBell> I don't know Paul2
[12:38] <Paul2> haha good effort nationalrail. last train from frimley to london leaves at 24:43 and gets into paddington at 2:01. helpful. I'll stick with Farnborough Main It hink
[12:42] <Paul2> popey: have you booked a table? :p
[12:45] <Joeb454> popey: yeah pretty much. Just changed the contact address on LP. Ng what else do I need to do?
[12:46] <Ng> Joeb454: wait :)
[12:46] <Ng> we usually do verification runs every few days
[12:47] <Joeb454> Ng: haha, fair enough. That's fine by me, the only real change to me is that it'll get sorted into a different inbox now
[13:01] <gord> kindle charges reeeeally slow over usb
[13:02] <davmor2> gord: yeah but a 10 second charge will last like 100 page turns right ;)
[13:21] <freakyclown> grrr the number of stupid bloody bugs in 11.10/unity i can stand before i install bloody windows for stability reasons is slowly running out!
[13:22] <MooDoo> AlanBell: Laney looks like notts lug are suggesting other talks at ubuntu hour in nov, sounds like it could be a great event.
[13:22] <oimon> freakyclown: last time i heard, there was a bit more choice than only unity ;D
[13:23] <freakyclown> not sure whats causing it so didnt want to just blame unity ;)
[13:24] <AlanBell> MooDoo: great!
[13:24] <bigcalm> xfce isn't perfect, but it lets me do my job again
[13:24] <oimon> rhythmbox users - how can you see the play queue in a reasonable sized window?
[13:24] <Laney> MooDoo: I odn't think they mean talks at that event, but just offers of talks in general
[13:24] <oimon> bigcalm: noticing some high memory usage on xfce since adding ubuntuone :(
[13:25] <Laney> oh hey, I can post to the list
[13:25] <MooDoo> ah!
[13:25] <Seeker`> freakyclown: what bugs?
[13:25] <bigcalm> I don't use ubuntuone. Maybe I should uninstall it
[13:26] <freakyclown> the latest one that ive not found a fix for is coming out of screensaver (set to none) cleanly
[13:26] <MooDoo> and there is your post Laney ::)
[13:26] <oimon> bigcalm: actually, since rebooting/crashing, my machine is holding up a bit better
[13:26] <oimon> maybe it was something else (i was playing a bit), and have docky/gnome do and a few other stuffs running. (maybe it was the weather applet)
[13:27] <popey> ooo, google hangout with "extras"
[13:27] <popey> you can name your hangout
[13:27] <bigcalm> I should try and get that working on this machine
[13:27] <bigcalm> Never used it though
[13:27] <gord> "stephen the hangout"
[13:27]  * Laney wants to see what extras popey can offer
[13:28] <freakyclown> just now first nothing comes back, then changing ttys and back i got a white screen then tty swap again, i got a bit more screen back then tty swap again i get everythign back BUT then the mouse disapears tty swap again then mouse reappears then goes repeat that two more times till everything works
[13:28] <oimon> mem used 228MB ..thats better :D
[13:28] <popey> freakyclown: what video card?
[13:28] <oimon> nvidia i bet
[13:28] <freakyclown> ja
[13:28] <popey> ☹
[13:28] <oimon> rips out freakyclown's nividia card without powering off his machine
[13:28] <Laney> couldn't get hangouts to work behind me proxy :(
[13:29] <freakyclown> :( its a bloody laptop too :(
[13:29] <freakyclown> oimon: its not like its a bloody odd card..it should work fine!
[13:29] <freakyclown> infact it worked very fine under 11.04 and before!
[13:29] <freakyclown> since going to 11.10 ive had nothing but troubles
[13:29] <freakyclown> most of which ive been lucky to fix
[13:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> My main desktop has an nvidia card. Means I'm definitely staying on "good ole" 10.10 with menus in windows and such like :-)
[13:31] <Azelphur> freakyclown: 11.10 uses more graphics features that nvidia breaks :p
[13:31] <christel> freakyclown: are you pubbing with us tonight?
[13:31] <Azelphur> freakyclown: are you sure you have the latest nvidia driver installed btw
[13:32] <freakyclown> christel: ?
[13:32] <freakyclown> Azelphur: pretty sure!
[13:32] <oimon> is there a bug about it on LP?
[13:33] <freakyclown> ive not looked tbh im trying to work for once!
[13:33] <oimon> a had a white windows bug on nvidia a while back but that happened when too many windows were open :D
[13:33] <freakyclown> normally easy but found major issues with this bank so they are all over my arse about getting detaisl :(
[13:33] <freakyclown> oimon: how many is too many? ;)
[13:33] <popey> switch to nouveau for a bit?
[13:33] <christel> freakyclown: you're useless! http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1277/detail/
[13:34] <oimon> freakyclown: or maybe switch to unity2d and disable compiz to check
[13:34] <freakyclown> christel: not many going LOL
[13:35] <oimon> bug 747717
[13:35] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 747717 in nvidia-graphics-drivers (Ubuntu) "11.04 - opening too many windows causes new windows to render blank white" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/747717
[13:35] <freakyclown> nah wasnt that
[13:35] <freakyclown> it was resuming from screensaver
[13:35] <freakyclown> it just happened to go white this time
[13:35] <christel> freakyclown: true! they're all staying home to be at the ubuntu-uk irc meeting instead.. :s
[13:35] <freakyclown> rather than blank or crash
[13:35] <christel> because AlanBell has amazing scheduling skills!
[13:35] <bigcalm> Found a weirdness with my webcam. It works just fine the 1st time it's accessed. If something stops using it, the next time it's accessed, the colours are wrong
[13:35] <Seeker`> bah, farnborough is a little too far for me
[13:36] <freakyclown> christel: id rather irc meet tbh as i have a ton of coding to do :/
[13:36] <christel> tsk tsk
[13:36] <freakyclown> i have projects coming out my ears atm :(
[13:37] <freakyclown> both work and personal :(
[13:37] <Seeker`> Farnborough is about 40 miles too far
[13:37] <popey> LIES
[13:38] <popey> It's nearby.
[13:38] <popey> It can't be too far
[13:38] <AlanBell> patches welcome
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> it's on the wrong side of the North Sea :(
[13:38] <oimon> could have it at the centre of the earth. most people are roughly the same distance
[13:38] <directhex> AlanBell++
[13:38] <penguin42> bigcalm: Have you got Nvidia graphics and is this only with cheese?
[13:38] <popey> mmmmmmm cheese
[13:38] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[13:39] <Seeker`> nomnomnom
[13:39]  * penguin42 decides it's safest not to follow that link
[13:39] <bigcalm> Pendulum: I do and no, weirdness on skype and google plus hangout
[13:39] <Seeker`> AlanBell: you should move the pub closer to me
[13:39] <Azelphur> I want to book a ride in the private jet :o
[13:39] <penguin42> bigcalm: Hmm there are a set of bugs with people having odd colours on 11.10 with webcams - all have been nvidia users, but I'm not sure if it really is Nvidia specific
[13:39] <Azelphur> Live right near an airport would totally be convenient
[13:40]  * penguin42 swings back to bigcalm
[13:40] <gord> penguin42, choose a different resolution
[13:40] <gord> for the webcam
[13:40] <penguin42> gord: Tell bigcalm that - I don't have one
[13:40] <gord> bigcalm, then
[13:40] <gord> bigcalm, messes up all my tab completes
[13:40] <gord> its not nvidia specific either
[13:41] <bigcalm> Lets have a look at cheese
[13:41] <penguin42> gord: Have you got a non-nvidia bug report for it - I've been triaging a few and all the ones I've seen so far are
[13:41] <gord> penguin42, it happens on my non nvidia laptop
[13:41] <penguin42> gord: OK
[13:41] <penguin42> bugs 878496 877508 and 877554 were the ones I'd spotted
[13:41] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 878496 in cheese (Ubuntu) "Odd colors in cheese in 11.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878496
[13:43] <oimon> probably mould
[13:43] <bigcalm> I think I've killed cheese :)
[13:46] <bigcalm> Tempted to get one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-Playstation-Eye-Camera-EyeCreate/dp/B000W3YQ1Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319117832&sr=8-1
[13:47] <bigcalm> My dad uses two with his archery coaching (they can do 100fps and the quality is great)
[13:48] <gord> it is?
[13:48] <gord> doesn't seem great for me
[13:48]  * bigcalm shrugs
[13:48] <bigcalm> YMMV
[13:49] <bigcalm> Or your standards might be higher ;)
[13:49] <gord> well i only know from the ps3, it runs at like 320x240 or something and lots of noise
[13:49] <davmor2> bigcalm: what did you do grill the cheese to death?
[13:49] <bigcalm> davmor2: I looked at it
[13:50] <davmor2> bigcalm: that would do it ;)
[13:50] <gord> trying it outlets see what its like on the buntu's
[13:50] <gord> oh wow thats pretty good
[13:51] <gord> very high framerate and very little lag
[13:54] <freakyclown> anyone have ubuntu 32bit with nvcc/cuda installed
[13:54] <bigcalm> gord: the eye?
[13:55] <gord> bigcalm, yup, grabbed it off my tv, put it in the machine, just works
[13:55] <bigcalm> And did it 'just work' without faffing with extra drivers?
[13:55] <bigcalm> Sweet
[13:55] <gord> 640x480 max
[13:55] <bigcalm> Worth getting one for 18 quid then
[13:55] <gord> a little bit grainy, cheese crashed when i tried to record video
[13:56] <bigcalm> gord: I'd blame Unity
[13:56] <bigcalm> (blame Unity for everything)
[13:56] <gord> http://ubuntuone.com/60oerxL73N3qtY5OwvVAWF - i love cheese - too much fun
[13:57] <popey> :D
[13:57] <bigcalm> :D
[13:58] <bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts
[13:59] <Dave2> how did I read posts as goats :(
[14:00] <Pendulum> Dave2: that's why we love you
[14:00] <Laney> mmm curried goat
[14:01] <Dave2> :O
[14:03] <oimon> i seem to have inherited a CMS and i am in danger of destroying everything :(
[14:06] <bigcalm> Which one?
[14:07] <davmor2> oimon: Woohoo! can you video it for us please?
[14:08] <hoover> cheers for now, catch you laters
[14:08] <oimon> bigcalm: drupal
[14:08] <bigcalm> Eugh
[14:08] <bigcalm> Carry on
[14:08] <oimon> my drupal guy left and i have to do some stuff on it ...i have ride "drive blind" on the stereo...very apt
[14:13] <Azelphur> I use drupal for all my stuff
[14:13] <Azelphur> :)
[14:13] <oimon> Azelphur: any experience with drush migrate command?
[14:16] <Azelphur> nope
[14:17] <oimon> sad face
[14:18] <DJones> Just seen the picture of Gadaffi being put out on the news networks, not sure it looks that much like him, unless he's been hiding in McDonalds
[14:18] <bigcalm> Is there a decent MySQL GUI similar in usability to SQLyog? SQLyog worked just fine in 11.04, but crashes in 11.10
[14:18] <oimon> DJones: he's dead?
[14:18] <DJones> oimon: Thats whats being reported
[14:19] <oimon> the pic in the telegraph looks more coloner saunders than mcdonalds
[14:20] <oimon> at risk of talking politics, governments always seem to forget that the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend
[14:37] <oimon> Azelphur: do you know how i can search my entire drupal site for occurrences of hyperlinks in a certain format?
[14:37] <Azelphur> nope
[14:39] <oimon> i think it's this http://drupal.org/project/linkchecker but not sure how to check the whole site rather than the My Account ones
[14:39] <Azelphur> that's fancy :D
[14:39] <oimon> ah, i can see it from reports->broken links
[14:40] <oimon> only when the page is saved though
[14:40] <oimon> i'm way out of my depth with this
[14:41] <Azelphur> hehe it is a complicated beast, but you'll get there :)
[14:42] <oimon> not sure i want to :-\
[14:42] <Azelphur> why not?
[14:43] <oimon> it's a complicated site involving data imports from other DBs etc running nightly. i'm the IT manager..i used to have a dude to do this stuff for me
[14:44] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:50] <oimon> i'm always surprised by the lack of detailed ubuntu knowledge by commenters on slashdot. they always like to appear they know everything :)
[14:58] <gordonjcp> in 11.10 how do I get it to stop trying to dim my screen?
[14:58] <gordonjcp> and, indeed, how do I get it to turn the bloody backlight on?
[15:01] <gordonjcp> ah, uncheck "dim screen to save power"
[15:01] <gordonjcp> and move the slider all the way to the left, now I'm at 1/4 normal brightness
[15:13] <DJones> gordonjcp: I've got a similar problem, at boot my screen as at minimal brightness, I have to reset the brightness every boot and it doesn't retain the setting
[15:14] <bigcalm> Is it possible to sync contacts between google apps and Thunderbird?
[15:15] <DJones> I did use a 3rd party add on a while back to do that, but it wasn't 100% sucessful
[15:15] <gordonjcp> DJones: annoyingly even the brightness control buttons don't work
[15:16] <DJones> bigcalm: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/thunderbird/addon/google-contacts/
[15:17] <DJones> gordonjcp: I've not tried the control buttons, not something I'd considered
[15:17] <dipl0> Also another one made by Zimbra i think bigcalm
[15:17] <dipl0> Again it's not great
[15:17] <diplo> best one so far is the built in one in evolution
[15:18] <oimon> bigcalm: http://www.zindus.com/faq-thunderbird/ ?
[15:18] <bigcalm> Ah well, ta
[15:18] <tim_> is there a uk alternative to system76
[15:18] <popey> system76 ship to the uk
[15:18] <popey> and no, not really
[15:19] <oimon> for laptops?
[15:19] <tim_> ok
[15:20] <tim_> just want to minimise the shipping costs
[15:20] <popey> dell?
[15:21] <popey> kogan or whoever they're called
[15:21] <popey> see nakedcomputers.org
[15:21] <bigcalm> Just installed Google contacts 0.6.37 - did exactly what I wanted
[15:21] <DJones> popey: One you might find interesting (specially as it mentions Sounder at the bottom) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/20/shuttleworth_ubuntu_12_04/
[15:22] <popey> oh?
[15:22] <DJones> Only as passing comments, but still gets 2 paragraphs out it
[15:22] <popey> oooo
[15:23] <gordonjcp> http://i.imgur.com/Uwg7B.jpg
[15:23] <popey> they link to a 3 post thread
[15:23] <popey> they could have picked a better thread to link to
[15:24] <DJones> Weren't there some 300 post threads about the closure, but it is the Register, quick & dirty, get the story out first
[15:24] <bigcalm> gordonjcp: that's creepy
[15:24] <popey> yup
[15:26] <oimon> shame productivity isn't there too..that's the main thing i lost in unity
[15:39] <ali1234> that regsiter story calls unity a "touch-based interface"
[15:41] <bigcalm> Looks like it should be
[15:42] <oimon> in fact it requires more typing than ever
[15:47] <gord> it also says "Ubuntu 12.01 LTS" - i'm pretty sure they don't proof read
[15:47] <gord> they actually consistently say 12.01
[15:47] <bigcalm> Lets have it 3 months early then :D
[15:47] <oimon> unless they are copy-pasting quotes from sadfl
[15:47] <Laney> no, it switches to 12.04 later on
[15:53] <oimon> comments link is broken too
[16:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think esr got it pretty much bang on in his post. Think I might well be taking a looksy at xfce in the near future. Although Maverick is still awesome IMHO.
[16:09] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: xfce isn't a bad experience once you get used to it
[16:09] <bastubis> Unity won't load after some updates a couple of days ago
[16:10] <bastubis> just had to roll my laptop back to natty
[16:10] <bastubis> after wasting a day trying to fix/reinstall oneiric
[16:10] <penguin42> bastubis: How did it fail?
[16:11] <bastubis> Got the login screen OK, logged in, desktop half loaded then just sat there
[16:11] <bastubis> so it drew the desktop, but no status bar at top right and no launcher
[16:11] <bastubis> no lens
[16:11] <bastubis> nuffin
[16:11] <ali1234> that means driver fail
[16:11] <bastubis> no network
[16:11] <bastubis> well, yeah, but which one?
[16:11] <ali1234> graphics driver
[16:11] <ali1234> depends what graphics card you have
[16:11] <bastubis> why would they replace the graphics driver?
[16:12] <bastubis> I've been running Oneiric on here since beta 1
[16:12] <penguin42> graphics drivers always get updated because of other bugs
[16:12] <bastubis> ah, well, oneiric is now unuseable on my Lenovo
[16:12] <bastubis> can't even install it, installer crashes
[16:12] <penguin42> which Lenovo?
[16:12] <bastubis> G somethign - hang on
[16:13] <bastubis> g550
[16:13] <bastubis> It's been pretty useless with oneiric all along
[16:13] <bastubis> from the start, the desktop was taking 6+ minutes to load
[16:14] <bastubis> I gather there's a networking bug on some Lenovos but can't find anyone else having the same problems with the desktop not loading
[16:15] <bastubis> this is the graphics: Intel Corporation Mobile 4 Series Chipset Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
[16:16] <penguin42> hmm I didn't think the intel drivers had changed much; it could easily be something other than the driver
[16:16] <bastubis> well, I thought there'd be loads of people screaming if it was an intel chip
[16:16] <bastubis> that's why I didn't think it was that
[16:17] <bastubis> also, the installer was crashing right at the end, probably creating the bootloader
[16:17] <bastubis> although you can't tell anymore what it's doing
[16:17] <directhex> i was a big XFCE4 user around 2003-2005
[16:19] <bastubis> it's pretty annoying and nothing jumped out of the logs to make sense of it
[16:19] <bastubis> not that I have that much idea what I'm doing ;)
[16:37]  * daubers goes home
[16:37] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://www.jemmatzan.com/2011/10/unity-is-the-end-of-ubuntu.html
[16:39] <ali1234> another highly accurate post
[16:40] <Laney> erm erm erm erm
[16:40] <Laney> anyone's spotify for linux just crapped out on them?
[16:40] <Laney> "use of this device is not enabled for your account"
[16:41] <bigcalm> WFM
[16:41] <bigcalm> Do you have a paid account?
[16:41] <bigcalm> Not that it should make a difference
[16:41] <Laney> yes
[16:41] <Laney> it's always worked
[16:42] <Laney> am I being spanked because I don't have it linked to FB?
[16:43] <ali1234> yes you have to link it with a facebook account now
[16:43] <ali1234> according to slashdot anyway
[16:43] <Laney> for new accounts
[16:44] <Laney> erm
[16:44] <Laney> error code 406: Please upgrade your subscription to Spotify Premium to access your account on this device
[16:44] <bigcalm> Has your credit card changed?
[16:45] <Laney> no
[16:45] <Laney> i still have a subscription, but it's unlimited
[16:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Ouch - that's quite a hard-hitting post although I'm mostly in agreement again.
[16:45] <Laney> not premium
[16:49] <ali1234> btw why are we sending unity rants to popey?
[16:50] <ali1234> is he collecting them or something?
[16:51] <jacobw> perhaps i'm in a minority, but i prefer unity on my netbook to gnome2
[16:51] <gordonjcp> ali1234: yeah
[16:51] <gordonjcp> jacobw: I don't prefer it to gnome 2, but I prefer it to gnome 3
[16:52] <jacobw> keyboard control is much better
[16:52] <gordonjcp> I can't figure gnome 3 out at all
[16:52] <gordonjcp> how are you supposed to switch windows?
[16:53] <ali1234> i agree
[16:54] <jacobw> gordonjcp: by mousing around
[16:56] <ali1234> with unity i can at least understand how some people could like it
[16:57] <bastubis> heh, I'm having almost exactly the same problems he is
[16:57] <ali1234> i can see what the designers were trying to do
[16:57] <bastubis> just had to roll back to natty
[16:57] <bastubis> I already tried upgrading from Natty rather than doing a clean install, but the desktop doesn't load properly
[16:58] <ali1234> upgrading never works properly
[16:58] <bastubis> I tried a clean isntall first
[16:58] <bastubis> installer crashed
[16:58] <ali1234> installer will crash with certain set of options
[16:58] <bastubis> it had no options
[16:58] <ali1234> yes it does
[16:58] <bastubis> vanilla installation, tried it 3 times, crashed every time
[16:58] <ali1234> there is one that says "download updates"
[16:59] <bastubis> didn't tick it
[16:59] <ali1234> and another one that says "install additional software"
[16:59] <bastubis> didn't tick it
[16:59] <ali1234> anyway dinner time
[16:59] <bastubis> indeed
[17:21] <Paul2> right. spose I better head off if I'm going to the pub
[17:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Seven Years Old - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/20/seven-years-old/
[17:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> hah hah - you need a webgl capable browser but this is pretty cool: http://www.biomotionlab.ca/Demos/webgl_walker/webgl_walker.php
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: why is it walking backwards?
[17:41] <directhex> for christmas, across the irish sea?
[17:41] <MartijnVdS> ಠ_ಠ
[17:42] <directhex> because 1950s radio comedy is always topical!
[17:46] <gordonjcp> and someone threw a batter pudding at it
[17:46] <popey> Evening all
[17:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[17:47] <popey> Laney: my spotify works
[17:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> Be seeing you later
[17:47] <popey> Laney: i dont have it linked to fb
[17:47] <popey> yay
[17:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: is kindly chaffering me
[17:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> chauffering
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> *chafing
[17:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
[17:48] <popey> what time you aiming to get there?
[17:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> I was dogging last night.
[17:48]  * AlanBell has to eat some fish and chips first
[17:48] <TheOpenSourcerer> When AlanBell delivers me I guess.
[17:49] <popey> :D
[17:50] <^aDaM> Evening popey :-)
[17:53] <davmor2> popey: evening
[17:54] <christel> popey: i think they are grabbing me at 7.30 so i guess 8ish :)
[17:57] <tonytiger> We'll be there by 8pm hopefully
[18:00]  * TheOpenSourcerer just coughed up £95 to go on a "speed awareness" course.
[18:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> In lieu of 3 points
[18:03] <mgdm> "Yes, I am aware of it. Why do you think I'm here?"
[18:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hopefully they will explain how to avoid getting caught.
[18:04] <mgdm> Just drive fast enough that the camera doesn't see you?
[18:17] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: right, all set, see you in a bit, then christel, then pub :)
[18:18] <christel> woop!
[18:18] <christel> see you shortly <3
[18:18] <AlanBell> IRC meeting at 9PM peeps
[18:18] <AlanBell> in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
[18:18] <AlanBell> and in the pub :)
[18:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> ok.
[18:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> Need to stop at a cashpoint somewhere along the way.
[18:25] <freakyclown> oh yay another thing broken in 11.10 :(
[18:26] <freakyclown> can no longer drag images from a browser into a folder
[18:26] <freakyclown> makes a link insted
[18:28] <MartijnVdS> OMG MapsGL on Google Maps is COOL
[18:30] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: :o trying it now
[18:30] <Azelphur> it's certainly a lot smoother :D
[18:31] <MartijnVdS> it's even working quite quick on Intel (pre-SandyBridge i3)
[18:31] <Azelphur> :)
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> Most of the features were already in maps on mobile (android)
[18:33] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:33] <freakyclown> yeah been playing with them onmy tablet
[18:34] <Azelphur> My A&L card expired, I now have a ugly Santander one...it's scaring me :(
[18:35] <Azelphur> Has anyone looked into the whole occupy wall street "you should be using a credit union" thing?
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: that's quite American I think
[18:35] <MartijnVdS> at least in the Netherlands there isn't much of a distinction
[18:35] <Azelphur> true, but I'm kinda interested in alternatives to banks anyway
[18:35] <Azelphur> since I'm with the worst bank on the planet and I get practically no interest whatsoever and would probably be better storing my money under my pillow right now.
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.rabobank.com/ ;)
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: don't know if they do "normal" account in the UK, probably not
[18:36] <Azelphur> yea atm I have a current and savings, to give you some idea I've had £2000 in my savings account for a year, I got £1.36
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> that's bad
[18:36] <Azelphur> indeed
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> I get 1.5%
[18:37] <freakyclown> Azelphur: do what i do... take out a bit of cash goto casino play games come back with 400% interest :)
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> freakyclown: You should start a casino, way better odds
[18:37] <Azelphur> ^
[18:38] <Azelphur> freakyclown: and I did that too, I played bitcoin and won :D
[18:40] <ali1234> Azelphur: get a cash ISA
[18:41] <ali1234> you will get about 3% interest and no tax
[18:41] <Azelphur> :o madness?
[18:41] <Azelphur> what's the downside to that
[18:41] <ali1234> there is no downside
[18:41] <Azelphur> fun
[18:41] <Azelphur> so I can take my money out whenever I like
[18:41] <ali1234> depends
[18:42] <ali1234> there are differentt ypes
[18:42] <ali1234> i have a 1 year one
[18:42] <ali1234> i can take the money out any time but i lose the interest if i take it out before 1 year
[18:43] <ali1234> but i get higher interest rate
[18:43] <ali1234> anyway it beats the 0.05% you probably get on a regular bank savings account
[18:43] <Azelphur> indeed
[18:44] <Azelphur> another semi-related question is does anyone here have some kind of gadget insurance?
[18:44] <ali1234> no
[18:44] <Azelphur> I'm sure lots of us continually play with equipment worth £1000+, is there anything that covers things like that?
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> no
[18:44] <Azelphur> that's boring :(
[18:44] <MartijnVdS> I have "normal" insurance for house fires and burglary etc.
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> And most gadget-breakage is warranty
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> + common sense (don't use your Xoom in the rain)
[18:46] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:48] <Azelphur> woot found the button that stops santander pummeling me with physical statements too
[18:49] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, I was thinking something that would cover mobile gadgets too
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: like when you're 'on the go'?
[18:49] <Azelphur> indeed, laptops and phones that sort of thing
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: gym membership is probably cheaper and more effective ;)
[18:50] <Azelphur> haha
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> Laptop thieves prefer stealing laptops from scrawny geeks, not muscly men
[18:51] <Azelphur> that's true
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> also
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> most laptops are stolen from cars (while unattended) over here
[19:07] <AlanBell> yay, we are in the pub
[19:08] <AlanBell> and I am full of fail as I forgot to bring a box of Oneiric CDs
[19:10] <penguin42> Your chickens stole them?
[19:14] <diplo> AlanBell, not missing much with forgetting them though
[19:15] <diplo> :)
[19:15] <AlanBell> harsh!
[19:15] <diplo> heh
[19:15] <diplo> Was debating about training down, but 2 hour trip because of train works
[19:16] <diplo> And bloody expensive
[19:16] <diplo> Cheaper to drive down
[19:16] <gordonjcp> diplo: you should try it from Glasgow
[19:17] <gordonjcp> diplo: for two people to get a train down to Farnham, 800 quid
[19:17] <gordonjcp> if I didn't already have a van I could have bought one, taxed and insured it, and fuelled it for the whole trip
[19:18] <diplo> lol
[19:18] <diplo> Costs me £130 to get train to nottingham, with 3/4 stops for my pleasure
[19:18] <gordonjcp> heh
[19:18] <penguin42> yeh train prices are silly
[19:18] <gordonjcp> and the environmental lobby wonder why people won't take trains
[19:19] <diplo> Yup, I'd use them all the time if it was cheaper
[19:19] <smittix> evening all
[19:19]  * penguin42 wouldn't mind going to London occasionally, but I can't really justify the ~100+ it costs or be organised enough to know when I'm going to go to get it cheap
[19:19] <gord> eh
[19:19] <gord> costs me £40 to get to london in under two hours from crewe
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: weird thing is, it costs £100-ish for me too.. and I'm coming from the Netherlands
[19:20] <penguin42> gord: booked how far in advance?
[19:20] <gord> penguin42, not on the day :) but not weeks in advance, just travel on off-peak times
[19:21] <ali1234> you only have to book 1 day before to get advance rates
[19:21] <ali1234> you pay £120 on the day for a return
[19:21] <ali1234> or like £40 if you book it the day before
[19:21] <ali1234> (nottingham to london)
[19:22] <penguin42> £70 for next day Manc->London return off peak
[19:22] <gordonjcp> ali1234: but that's still 40 quid to go 120 miles
[19:22] <ali1234> or you can get the coach for like £12
[19:22]  * penguin42 should try coaches some time
[19:23] <gordonjcp> that's like a tenner's worth of diesel, although it does sound like the coach is doing it below cost
[19:23] <penguin42> gordonjcp: Well it's not just one person on the coach!
[19:24] <gordonjcp> penguin42: yeah, my arithmetic sucks
[19:24] <gord> gordonjcp, if you own a car then its better to go in a car of course ;) if your like me, its much cheaper to take the train
[19:24] <gord> no insurance to pay, no MOT, no nufink'
[19:24] <gordonjcp> penguin42: I guess once you've got enough people to pay for the 22 gallons of diesel the coach will use it's making money again
[19:25] <gordonjcp> gord: company vehicle, licence for 16 years, 24 years no-claims...
[19:25] <penguin42> gord: Yeh it is nice that; I guess I should be less tight about doing longer train journeys and just remember how much it would cost me if I had a car; the problem is the waking up and 'I fancy going to. ....' costs are silly
[19:26] <gordonjcp> so basically my private car insurance lets me drive damn near anything with fully comp insurance, short of the space shuttle
[19:44] <jacobw> hi SuprEngr
[19:44] <jacobw> are you chairing the meeting tonight?
[19:45] <Azelphur> drupal module development is frustrating me :/
[19:45] <Azelphur> I've wrote the module, it took about a day to do. I've spent the past 5 days trying to make the config menu, don't get any help on the drupal channel, gah. :(
[19:57] <popey> moo
[19:58] <Azelphur> baa
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> meh
[19:58] <AlanBell> meeting shortly
[19:58] <AlanBell> anyone know what application does the UNR buttons?
[19:58] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: UNR buttons?
[19:58] <AlanBell> netbook edition
[19:59] <AlanBell> netbook remix launcher thing?
[20:01] <AlanBell> meeting about to start in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
[20:01] <popey> eek
[20:01] <popey> but but but, I'm in the pub
[20:07] <SuprEngr> hi jacobw - nah... the world's first 1minute op is all Iam
[21:16] <Andres-kain> any layout editor recomended for *.gdsII files?
[21:40] <gordonjcp> dwatkins: aha, I thought I'd seen the nick before
[21:47] <tonytiger> Ah ha, there was another xserver-xorg-core / xserver-xorg-common update waiting
[21:47] <tonytiger> problem solved
[21:48] <dwatkins> gordonjcp: hehe, hi here also
[22:29] <penguin42> Andres-kain: Chip design?
[22:30] <Andres-kain> yes!!
[22:30] <penguin42> Andres-kain: You could try 'electric' - I think it can do GDS; I'm not sure if geda ever made it to the point of being able to
[22:32] <Andres-kain> yep heard of that one (only one in repo) but have not used it. just checking if others would be recomended... like layouteditor.
[22:41] <penguin42> it's been around for many years and still gets updated
[22:43] <issyl0> AlanBell, christel: Thanks for the lift home, even though my directions failed slightly.  :P
[22:43] <ali1234> Andres-kain: a couple of months ago i tested every single chip design program i could find in the repos, plus a whole load that aren't
[22:44] <penguin42> ali1234: Did you find any that worked?
[22:44] <ali1234> nope
[22:44] <ali1234> well
[22:44] <ali1234> i found two types of programs basically
[22:44] <ali1234> ones that i couldn't understand how to use at all
[22:44] <ali1234> and ones that crashed or didn't work properly
[22:45] <penguin42> frankly, ones that no one can understand how to use is pretty normal for chip design programs - I worked at one place that had paid ~£1M/seat for some, and we tried to use one feature and phoned up having got it mostly working and they were surprised we had got that far - apparently no one else had without having one of their guys on site
[22:46] <ali1234> yeah
[22:46] <ali1234> well, i was actually looking for some kind of logic simulator type thing
[22:47] <ali1234> everything is either designed for industrial use (can't understand it) or educational use (unfinished, broken, way too simple etc)
[22:48] <ali1234> the best tool i found was klogic which is on the educational end... doesn't support heirarchical design and crashes a lot
[22:48] <ali1234> and it needs KDE3
[22:48] <penguin42> ali1234: Did you try electric?
[22:48] <ali1234> can't remember?
[22:48] <ali1234> i will try it now
[22:48] <penguin42> it is the best known - it's widely used
[22:49] <ali1234> does it have a simulator?
[22:49] <ali1234> cos i need a simulator...
[22:49] <penguin42> no tsure, it's a long time since I looked - I think it's more at the GDS layout end than high level stuff, but I think it has stuff that spans the lot
[22:50] <ali1234> when i was at university we had a nice package that we used with the FPGA boards to do logic design
[22:50] <ali1234> it had a built in simulator too so you didn't actually need the hardware
[22:50] <ali1234> it had a parts library with all the 74 logic chips already made
[22:50] <ali1234> plus you could design your own chips and then just drop them into more complex designs
[22:50] <ali1234> i'm just looking for something like that
[22:51] <penguin42> ali1234: That's quite different from a chip design package which wrangles GDS
[22:51] <ali1234> ah yes i did try electric before
[22:52] <ali1234> fits in the "i can't understand this" category
[22:53] <ali1234> that probably explains why i can't understand it
[22:54] <penguin42> GDS wranglers can stare at pictures with a few coloured blobs on and see transistors pop out
[22:54]  * popey moos and goes to sleep
[22:55] <popey> nice to see you issyl0
[22:55] <ali1234> i don't want to have to deal with anything lower level than NAND gates
[22:55] <issyl0> popey: You too!
[22:55] <issyl0> popey: Moo!
[22:55] <popey> Moo!
[22:56]  * popey farts on AlanBell for not bringing CDs :D
[22:57] <Andres-kain> penguin42 ali1234 i started witn coventorware for mems and it now looks like it might be L-edit
[22:57] <penguin42> ooh mems stuff, fun
[22:57] <Andres-kain> i wanted something to work from home.
[22:58] <penguin42> Andres-kain: I've never looked at MEMS tools
[22:58] <Andres-kain> l-edit will be just simple one or two layer mask design
[22:59] <Andres-kain> penguin42 it is mental. you simulate electically then mechanically then do the layout and after that simulate foundry process...
[23:00] <Andres-kain> and then get it wrong and only realize when the wafer came back
[23:00] <penguin42> Andres-kain: Wow, erm I'm not sure what free stuff there is that can do that, I suspect electric will display and let you edit your GDS, but it won't have a clue about the mechanics
[23:00] <penguin42> Andres-kain: Yeh I've seen dead chip runs come back from fabs - it's kind of erm a quiet moment in a lab when that happens
[23:01] <Andres-kain> but cool experience. when licence is over 40 k£ you kinda think it was an over kill
[23:02] <penguin42> that's cheap for a chip tool!
[23:02] <Andres-kain> mechanics should be able to mesh and send to elmer i hope.
[23:02] <Andres-kain> but maybe ahead of myself.
[23:03] <Andres-kain> just see gdsii should be enough i'll give electric a shove.
[23:04] <Andres-kain> penguin42 we got uni@discount for a while
[23:04] <Andres-kain> and did not buy all the packages.
[23:05] <Andres-kain> penguin42 what is the range of your stuff moneywise?
[23:07] <penguin42> Andres-kain: I haven't done anything with that level of chip design for many years; ~10 years ago I was working for some chip design startups and they had people doing VHDL where the licenses were anything from a few K/seat upt to the guys doing GDS and extraction maybe at £1M/seat
[23:07] <Andres-kain> ouch.
[23:10] <penguin42> and stuff in the latest gen of chips is so mad; things like the optical proximity correction stuf f- that's somewhere between physics, maths and pure magic
[23:10] <Andres-kain> vhdl was very high density layout? still did not have the need. 10 years? was it the begining of ARM?
[23:10] <penguin42> Andres-kain: No, vhdl is high level design language stuff - you're think of VLSI
[23:12] <Andres-kain> optical proximity correction? wow. lots to learn.
[23:14] <penguin42> Andres-kain: The lines they are drawing on the chip are smaller than the wavelength of light they are using to draw them; this is obviously impossible so they have to cheat
[23:16] <Andres-kain> ahh ok.
[23:17] <Andres-kain> penguin42 how do they go about that FIB? chemical etching seems to lack control, right?
[23:18] <penguin42> Andres-kain: No, it's still etching - they use multiple overlapping masks which optically interfere to produce about the right shape - as I say somewhere between physics/maths/magic!
[23:18] <Andres-kain> mental.
[23:19] <penguin42> nod
[23:19] <Andres-kain> well better get to bed. exciting things await
[23:20] <penguin42> have fun :-)
[23:21] <christel> issyl0: haha it was lovely <3
[23:22] <Andres-kain> thanks penguin42 for a nice chat!
[23:22] <penguin42> no problem - I'm jealous of you for being able to play with MEMS!
[23:26] <Andres-kain> nothing to glam for the moment. and i'm only on the side... there is an open day at NPL in case you want to visit.
[23:30] <penguin42> it's a bit of a treck for me, but sounds fun
[23:31] <Andres-kain> if i remeber to how to send a personal chat i'll give you email in case you are in area.
[23:32] <Andres-kain> good night!
[23:32] <penguin42> night