[00:14] <hux_> hi I installed ocelot today. Trying to make a statup disk but it's been stuck @ 96% for over an hour now
[00:16] <hux_> I Don't bl**dy belieeeve it. Scrap that last mssg. It's just finished lol
[00:16] <penguin42> hehe
[00:17] <hux_> on equestion How can I find the settings for empathy I want to uncheck @show offline contacts'
[00:18] <hux_> *one Q
[00:19]  * hux_ advises Azelphur to make for higher ground ;)
[00:41] <hux_> does anyone know how to change empathy's settings?
[00:42] <hux_> I want to get to bed soon :)
[01:00] <hux_> thanx 4 nowt then
[04:59] <rr> Morning all
[05:03] <rr> anyone here?
[05:03] <rr> bb
[07:05] <DJones> Morning all
[07:26] <AlanBell> morning
[07:29] <popey>  _____     _     _             _
[07:29] <popey> |  ___| __(_) __| | __ _ _   _| |
[07:29] <popey> | |_ | '__| |/ _` |/ _` | | | | |
[07:29] <popey> |  _|| |  | | (_| | (_| | |_| |_|
[07:29] <popey> |_|  |_|  |_|\__,_|\__,_|\__, (_)
[07:29] <popey>                          |___/
[07:29] <popey> \o/
[07:37] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[07:38] <popey> Yes!
[07:41] <selinuxium> popey, YAY!
[07:41] <selinuxium> morning all   o/
[08:07] <MooDoo> morning
[08:12] <chambo> Morning all
[08:12] <chambo> Everyone got their Stone Roses tickets?!
[08:15] <gordonjcp> 55 quid, that's actually quite reasonably priced considering
[08:15] <MooDoo> chambo: stone who? ;)
[08:15] <gordonjcp> what was the Led Zep reunion costing, 125 per ticket?
[08:15] <gordonjcp> actually, wasn't it £125 to enter the lottery to get a ticket, at that
[08:16] <gordonjcp> that's basically five nights out at King Tut's
[08:16] <chambo> Ha
[08:16] <gordonjcp> where you'd see a decent band rather than some old dudes with the wrong drummer
[08:16] <gordonjcp> actually you'd likely see two or three decent bands since the support acts are usually pretty good
[08:18] <chambo> Ha
[08:19] <chambo> Seems pretty unfair on zeppelin :P
[08:25] <oimon> stone roses were always really rough live, mainly due to ian brown being such a poor singer
[08:29] <JamesTait> Happy Friday, world!
[08:31] <DJones> Stone Roses played an outdoor concert in front of 27000 people where I live, described as a "woodstock for a baggy generation" :)
[08:32] <Hippychick> it would have been a happy friday if i hadnt woken up thinking it was saturday :(
[08:33] <oimon> my son kept me awake from around 5am making grouchy noises in his room
[08:33] <DJones> Hippychick: Wouldn't there then have been depression when you realised it was only friday though
[08:34] <bigcalm> Morning morning
[08:36] <czajkowski> Aloha
[08:38] <bigcalm> Howdy czajkowski :)
[08:39] <MooDoo> morning czajkowski
[08:40] <oimon> linuxprinting.org is still down, this is ridiculous :(
[08:40] <oimon> must be a month by now
[08:46] <popey> yeah ☹
[08:46] <bigcalm> What's linuxprinting.org do?
[08:47] <AlanBell> tells you why your printer doesn't work
[08:47] <bigcalm> Ah
[08:47] <AlanBell> actually the vast majority of printers do just work these days
[08:47] <bigcalm> Indeed. I'm pleased with my printing success
[08:50] <gord> ever since someone told me to buy HP, i'v been happy with printers
[08:51] <popey> yeah, i never buy canon, brother or epson because I just dont need that pain
[08:51] <bigcalm> This Lexmark laser works for me
[08:52] <gord> still can't figure out how to get wifi printing working with my hp one though... i mean its not a linux thing, i just tried following the instructions and non of it made sense
[08:52] <gord> it was like a riddle
[08:53] <christel> morning
[08:53] <popey> hello christel
[08:53] <popey> lovely to see you last night
[08:53] <christel> and you (and everyone else!)
[08:55] <gordonjcp> sometimes when I click a square on the sidebar thing in Unity, the windows it refers to appear instantly, and sometimes they slowly shrink down and move about the screen
[08:55] <gordonjcp> is there some subtle behavioural rule that I'm missing here?
[08:56] <popey> if the app you click isnt already started you get a new window
[08:56] <popey> if it is already started you get an overview of all its windows
[08:56] <popey> if you middle click you get a new window of that app
[08:56] <gordonjcp> popey: this is if I have for example two terminals already open
[08:57] <popey> ok, so you get a 'zoomed out' view of the multiple terminal windows you have
[08:57] <gordonjcp> *sometimes*, yes
[08:59] <oimon> linuxprinting is the only source of a particular HP drive i need (new printer)
[08:59] <popey> maybe contact till ?
[08:59] <popey> pretty sure he runs the site, he will likely have a copy of it
[09:00] <popey> tkamppeter on irc
[09:00] <Myrtti> on our samsung scx-4500w wifi printing works just fine
[09:00] <oimon> thanks, will try my luck with till
[09:00] <brobostigon> good morning eevryone.
[09:01] <Myrtti> it is also the most beautiful mfp Ive ever seen
[09:07] <popey> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[09:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> lo popey
[09:24] <Paul2> I really should have had some food at some point last night
[09:24] <christel> Paul2! Nice to meet you yesterday :)
[09:25] <Paul2> Made the train with about 5 seconds to spare, guard waiting to close the door and then promptly fell asleep until I got to Waterloo \o/
[09:25] <Dave2> The imitator.
[09:25] <Paul2> christel: yes you too :)
[09:25] <Paul2> 'Is Paul2 like Dave2? I hope not'
[09:25] <christel> haha
[09:26] <Dave2> :o
[09:26] <christel> Paul2: I was very impressed you made the trip all the way from London!
[09:26] <Paul2> It was pretty easy really
[09:27] <Dave2> I didn't go because I'd be there for hardly any time before leaving in order to get to sleep at a decent time. And then I completely failed to get to sleep at a decent time.
[09:27] <Paul2> Easier than going to somewhere in the middle of pimlico,nowheresville.
[09:27] <christel> Dave2: I am most unimpressed by your failure to join us!
[09:27] <Paul2> christel: goatlovers.co.cx doesn't sysadmin itself you know. some people have things to do!
[09:28] <Dave2> Pft, not my fault it was a weekday before I had to be in at 9.
[09:28] <christel> Paul2: true true
[09:29] <Dave2> (Although if it was today I probably wouldn't be going either as I'm having PIE tomorrow.)
[09:29] <christel> Dave2: I intend to work on AlanBell, whilst I love the whole "once a month, somewhere random in the UK" thing I can't help but feel we should do a regular SE thing too!
[09:29] <christel> you wouldn't be going.. because you're having pie tomorrow..
[09:29] <Dave2> a regular SE thing, eh.
[09:29] <christel> your logic is second to none
[09:29] <Dave2> well, I don't want to be tired for pie.
[09:29]  * AlanBell wonders what being worked on entails
[09:30] <Dave2> (I also wouldn't want to oversleep and miss meeting people who are arriving for pie.)
[09:30] <christel> AlanBell: mainly it involves you saying "YES, that is an excellent idea, let's do it" :D
[09:30] <Dave2> (Especially as I bet I'll sleep for 10 hours tonight, if past weekends are anything to go by.)
[09:30] <AlanBell> YES, that is an excellent idea, let's do it
[09:31]  * christel claps
[09:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - some of us have been up since 05:40 this morning :-)
[09:31]  * popey notes AlanBell doesn't need much 'working on'
[09:31] <Dave2> It should be in Reading.
[09:31] <Dave2> Clearly.
[09:31] <popey> Reading is a good location
[09:31] <Paul2> central london is good
[09:31] <popey> heh
[09:31] <popey> here we go ☺
[09:31] <Paul2> protip: pimlico isn't central london
[09:31] <christel> TheOpenSourcerer: you've been out delivering milk, haven't you?
[09:32] <popey> :D
[09:32] <Dave2> Saucers of milk amirite
[09:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> christel: That would have been a good idea but no. I have been discussing business planning and eating bacon rolls
[09:33] <popey> I have a hunger.
[09:33] <popey> Good job it's fish+chips+mushy_peas day \o/
[09:33] <christel> AlanBell: http://www.danslenoir.com/london/
[09:33]  * oimon notices the connection between being indundated with phone calls and unsolicited emails from a job agency and one of their bods viewing my profile on linkedin. 
[09:34] <AlanBell> christel: already called them this morning
[09:34] <christel> ah fab!
[09:34] <christel> you are so organised!
[09:34] <Paul2> well thanks guys, I really enjoyed my middleaged pub visit. Featuring such classics as 'my diesel estate car' and 'my child's after school activities calendar' :D
[09:34] <christel> hahaha
[09:34]  * oimon has a diesel estate car
[09:34] <popey> :D
[09:35] <bigcalm> Me too
[09:35] <christel> ah, but do people mistake you for a taxi?
[09:35] <bigcalm> I hit middle age about 20 years ago
[09:35] <oimon> not with a kid seat in the back
[09:35]  * DJones has a diesel picasso with a dog cage in the back, so almost an Estate car
[09:35] <oimon> i have a dog cage too
[09:36] <DJones> Dog as well? Or just to confuse things
[09:36] <Dave2> popey: mushy peas? Do you have some northern blood?
[09:36] <popey> I think I may
[09:36] <oimon> for shoving drunks in the back
[09:36]  * oimon notices popey has come out of the closet after years of denial (c.f. twitter)
[09:36] <Dave2> My mum's a northerner by birth, though you couldn't tell, and I don't like them.
[09:37] <christel> you don't like your mum?
[09:37] <Dave2> mushy peas!
[09:37] <popey> :D
[09:37] <Dave2> My mum grew up in Blackburn though.
[09:38] <oimon> omg has improved since joey asserted more control over humphrey. however the quality of the comments is now also youtube commenter quality
[09:38] <popey> welcome to the internet
[09:39] <Dave2> I found a YouTube video the other day where the comments weren't moronic.
[09:39] <oimon> shame disqus doesn't have downvoting
[09:40] <Dave2> Unfortunately I can't remember what it was.
[09:40] <Dave2> (There was no mention of Justin Bieber though.)
[09:40] <oimon> Dave2 [citation needed]
[09:41] <gordonjcp> Paul2: I realised I had to get a grip on things early on in my relationship with Carolyne, when it occurred to me that I did in fact have a Volvo hatchback and I was actually wearing a tweed jacket, and she was actually loading two labradors into the back...
[09:43] <christel> haha
[09:46]  * gord see's a popey google+ post about iphone, decided to guess how many replies until someone said he should of used android, i over estimated.
[09:47] <DJones> gordonjcp: Did you guess 2 then
[09:47] <DJones> gord: even
[09:48] <Laney> morning
[09:48] <Laney> good pubbage last night?
[09:48] <gord> pretty much ;)
[09:52] <popey> gord: yeah
[09:52] <gord> no one ever tells me to use iphone when i complain about my android phone being crap, but they do tell me to use a different android
[09:55] <BigRedS> with me at least, android has the same problem as linux
[09:56] <BigRedS> because it lets me break it, whenver anyoen I know sees my linux or android device, it's probably a little bit broken
[09:56] <oimon> gave a 30 min android tutorial to a new owner on the train today (he is a friend, not a random passenger).
[09:56] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: :-)
[09:56] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: this is true of any user-fiddleable device
[09:56] <oimon> it's funny to see people make the jump to smartphone and sturggle with short press long press, etc
[09:57] <directhex> android is not intuitive.
[09:57] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: particularly when it's only *minorly* broken, just enough that it's slightly broken but it would take longer to fix than it does to just work around it
[09:57] <oimon> directhex: there is a learning curve, but so do all things worthwhile
[09:57] <gordonjcp> directhex: the only intuitive interface in human history are boobs
[09:57] <gordonjcp> directhex: everything else is learned
[09:57] <oimon> i give smartphones a 30 min / 2 hrs /1 week curve
[09:58] <oimon> essentials in 30 min / extra features 2 hours / second nature 1 week of use
[09:58] <directhex> gordonjcp, android's behaviour is hard to learn because it doesn't necessartily behave how you expect
[09:58] <Dave2> I think it took me a bit longer than 30 minutes to figure out what I was meant to do with my new phone.
[09:58] <gordonjcp> directhex: that's true of any phone though
[09:58] <gordonjcp> directhex: or indeed, any unfamiliar control system
[09:59] <andylockran> hey guys, just installed kde
[09:59] <andylockran> getting this error: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=279270
[09:59] <Dave2> Although maybe the definition of essentials differs.
[09:59] <lubotu3`> KDE bug 279270 in polkit-kde-authentication-agent-1 "Muon refuses to install updates with message "proper authorization was not provided" (1 1 90)" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[09:59] <oimon> if you're a non techie too then first 30 mins is best done with an experienced user.
[09:59] <andylockran> any idea how I can view the state of this bug on ubuntu
[09:59] <oimon> same for ubuntu really
[10:00] <Dave2> (I don't really consider making phone calls to be essential, but I do consider being able to ssh to be.)
[10:00] <popey> bug 833058
[10:00] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 833058 in qapt (Ubuntu) "Muon-updater doesn't ask for password" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/833058
[10:00] <popey> ^^ andylockran ?
[10:00] <andylockran> popey: thanks
[10:00] <BigRedS> gordonjcp: yeah, exactly. And then you fix it and find muscle memory consigns you to still doing it the 'old' way anyway
[10:00] <andylockran> popey: is there a way to link/view from the upstream bug?
[10:01] <andylockran> polkit-kde-1 was missing :)
[10:01] <andylockran> murz's comment solved the issue :)
[10:01] <directhex> gordonjcp, yes, again, true - but whether you like it or not, android is simply less obvious in how it behaves, regardless of your experience with other phones or computers, than many of the competitors
[10:02] <directhex> i'd say it's easier than blackberry though :p
[10:02] <gordonjcp> directhex: "less obvious" than what?
[10:02] <directhex> iOS is more intuitive, except for multitasking which is not. windows phone 7 and webos are pretty obvious in how to use them
[10:03] <popey> andylockran: i just googled
[10:04] <BigRedS> directhex: I find iOs _way_ less intuitive than Android. Including when I tried it before having had an android device
[10:04] <BigRedS> that was just pre my G1, though. Perhaps iOS has got better recently? I still find it hard to use
[10:05] <BigRedS> but I've had android for four years or so now...
[10:05] <gordonjcp> directhex: iOS is more intuitive if you've used iOS
[10:05] <gordonjcp> directhex: I've used iOS about twice, and still can't figure it out
[10:05] <BigRedS> er, two years. miscounted phones
[10:06] <directhex> gordonjcp, your experience is a long way from most people, then
[10:07] <directhex> gordonjcp, the question of intuitiveness of an interface is in how well behaviour exposes itself to you for you to learn it. the difference between long press, short press, slide, menu button, etc, is not intuitive with android.
[10:08] <gordonjcp> directhex: in your opinion, not in mine
[10:08] <oimon> my spare desktop left overnight, has 700MB in cache but 500MB of swap in use. is swappiness set too high or too low?
[10:10] <chambo> People rave about how intuitive WebOS is but my girlfriend absolutely hates my pre and can't use it
[10:11] <chambo> Guess it comes down to personal preference
[10:11] <oimon> seems quite simple to any tablet owners i've shown it to
[10:12] <nymwar> question: is it possible to create an iso from a virtualbox installation of ubuntu?  i.e. to be able to transfer it to another machine.
[10:12] <chambo> oimon, Indeed I really enjoy using webOS (Although I haven't used a touchpad so can't comment on it as a tablet interface)
[10:13] <AlanBell> nymwar: not an iso as such (well you could write it to an oversize DVD image I guess, but it wouldn't make much sense)
[10:13] <nymwar> Ah ok
[10:14] <AlanBell> nymwar: but you can certainly copy the disk image to another machine, or clone it on the same one
[10:14] <nymwar> how would I do that?
[10:14] <nymwar> where are virtualbox disk images stored?
[10:15] <AlanBell> well for me in /home/alan/VirtualBox VMs
[10:15] <nymwar> ok thanks
[10:16] <AlanBell> but if you go to the settings of your VM and the storage tab, click the .vdi file it will tell you the location on the right
[10:16] <nymwar> I see
[10:17] <nymwar> Just saves me having to do two independent installations on two machines
[10:17] <davmor2> morning all
[10:17] <davmor2> AlanBell: popey how was happy hour?
[10:17] <AlanBell> very happy
[10:18] <christel> happy \o/
[10:19] <Laney> was it more than an hour?
[10:20] <andylockran> :D
[10:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: It was also referred to as Middle-aged ;-) earlier by some young whipper-snapper
[10:22] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:23] <davmor2> haha
[10:23] <davmor2> morning MooDoo how's life dude
[10:23] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod morning
[10:23] <BigRedS> Anyone know of an easy way to ask LVM how much unallocated space I've got left in human-friendly units?
[10:26] <oimon> BigRedS: tried the GUI?
[10:27] <BigRedS> nah, but this is for servers
[10:27] <popey> Laney: it was, we got booted out
[10:27] <Laney> you rowdy yoofs
[10:27] <popey> I got there at 19:45 and we left at 23:something
[10:27] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: Re your tweet a minute ago, I'd say bank charges
[10:28] <Laney> I had a really sketchy climb yesterday
[10:28] <oimon> is there any advantage to riding fixed wheel bikes? i see a lot of hipsters riding them in E1
[10:28] <Laney> got to the top and my arms were so dead that I actually couldn't hold on at all
[10:28] <Laney> had to jump off
[10:28] <gordonjcp> oimon: not really
[10:28] <oimon> gordonjcp: they look really dangerous - no brakes, just fixed pedal
[10:29] <oimon> and you can't freewheel
[10:29] <gordonjcp> oimon: they're like proper bikes, but worse
[10:29] <oimon> hipster bikes :(
[10:29] <Laney> maintenance
[10:30] <BigRedS> oimon: they're more fun.
[10:30] <BigRedS> oimon: It's really hard to explain, but you feel much more connected to the bike, and you've a load more control over the braking
[10:30] <BigRedS> well, once you get the hang of braking
[10:30] <oimon> well, i had a fixed wheel trike as a 3yr old..it was fun then, but now on the dangerous streets of london?
[10:30] <Laney> the ones without brakes scare me
[10:30]  * popey hugs BigRedS 
[10:30] <BigRedS> they're awesome in Lonon-style traffic, less so in the countryside. Or where you have to go down hills
[10:31]  * BigRedS looks bemused
[10:31] <BigRedS> but hugs back anyway
[10:31] <oimon> i'm not trolling, but i still don't get it
[10:31] <AlanBell> what is a hipster?
[10:31] <oimon> maybe i just have to try one
[10:31] <BigRedS> oimon: yeah, you wont. Until you ride one. Then you will
[10:31] <oimon> AlanBell: ever been to shoreditch /bethnal green?
[10:31] <Laney> i know someone who rode a fixie from london to paris
[10:31] <Laney> must be something in it
[10:32] <BigRedS> well, you might not. But they're a completely ridiculous idea until you've riden one for a few hours
[10:32] <oimon> blokes with skinny jeans, beards, manbags, apple products, drinking trendy coffee, listening to Iron and Wine
[10:32] <BigRedS> just before they got really fashionable ~6y ago, there was a bit of a trend for using fixed wheel to make already otherwise daft ideas even more stupid
[10:32] <BigRedS> lots of fixies on the dynamo, at enduro XC events etc.
[10:33] <nymwar> I've never been much of a hipster
[10:36] <gordonjcp> I'm a hipster chap
[10:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now to login to our Accounting/ERP system and see if AlanBell has done his expenses yet...
[10:36] <gordonjcp> I was reading Jerome K Jerome and wearing tweed *before it was cool*
[10:37] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: most of them :0
[10:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: You need to spend a bit more on stuff and visiting customers
[10:38] <Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: send him to UDS :P
[10:38] <AlanBell> yes, still doing mileage entries
[10:38] <AlanBell> Pendulum: good idea
[10:38]  * DJones sends TheOpenSourcerer an invoice if he's got too much money
[10:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> He doesn't have the time unfortunately Pendulum
[10:38] <gordonjcp> I wouldn't mind giving a fixie a go, to be honest
[10:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> DJones: I didn't say *that*
[10:38]  * oimon likes freewheeling wheeeeeeeeeeeeee!
[10:39] <Pendulum> TheOpenSourcerer: okay, send him to Orlando to do work remotely with the sun as motivator. And then just happen to make it 31 Oct - 4 Nov :P
[10:39] <gordonjcp> actually, I've got a couple of knackered rear cassettes kicking around in the shed, I could weld up the notchy worn-out freewheel
[10:39] <BigRedS> gordonjcp: cassettes or freewheels?
[10:39] <BigRedS> freewheels will undo if you make a fixie, because there's no lockring
[10:39] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: good point
[10:40] <andylockran> does anyone know the equivalent 'ssh key password' cacher that you'd use for kde?
[10:40] <andylockran> i.e. to prevent having to repeatedly typing in the key when sshing around the place
[10:40] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: I'll dig around in my Great Big Box Of Bits and see if I can't find an old rear whel
[10:40] <gordonjcp> *wheel
[10:40] <andylockran> on a per session basis..
[10:40] <gordonjcp> and just weld up the whole thing
[10:40] <BigRedS> gordonjcp: I've seen people glue/bolt/weld the frewheel to the hub before, but fixed wheel rear wheels aren't *that* hard to come by
[10:41] <BigRedS> at least one place does fixie cogs that bolt onto an ISO disc mount if you've anything that modern kicking around
[10:41] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: yeah, but why spend money on it when I can make a ridiculous lashup from shite in my workshop?
[10:41] <BigRedS> haha, very good point
[10:41] <gordonjcp> I wish I had disc mounts kicking around, none of my bikes have discs
[10:41] <gordonjcp> well, the CB250 does
[10:41] <chambo> gordonjcp, I have Avids and they're horrible
[10:41] <gordonjcp> I'm not fitting those wheels onto my mtb
[10:42] <gordonjcp> though it would be really really funny
[10:42] <chambo> Need to save up for some decent calipers
[10:42] <BigRedS> there was a (brief) craze of fitting MX forks onto DH bikes
[10:42] <BigRedS> that was hilarious
[10:42] <gordonjcp> I mostly just ride on flattish road and canal path tracks, fairly quickly
[10:42] <Laney> andylockran: it is called an ssh agent
[10:42] <Laney> for googleness
[10:42] <gordonjcp> I don't do any ridiculous downhill suicide stuff
[10:43] <BigRedS> I do DH for two weeks a year, and then spend the rest of the year occasionally pootling to the pub
[10:43] <BigRedS> I spend most of those two weeks sliding on my face...
[10:44] <gordonjcp> heh
[10:44] <andylockran> Laney: I checked that.. KWallet can't do it without a little hack
[10:45] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: incidentally I notice that Carolyne now has a number of Pan Euro-related searches in her eBay account...
[10:45] <Laney> fun
[10:46] <BigRedS> gordonjcp: aha, awesome!
[10:46] <BigRedS> gordonjcp: can I send her a shopping list of bits for mine? :)
[10:47] <gordonjcp> heh
[10:47] <gordonjcp> so that's a Beetle and a VW Type 2, now a big tourer of some sort
[10:48] <BigRedS> gordonjcp: I think that should be a GL1100 really. It's more, er, classic :)
[10:49] <BigRedS> http://chudzikj.republika.pl/HondaGL/1100/Honda-GL1100-1981.jpg
[10:49] <BigRedS> and I want one :)
[10:49] <BigRedS> also, more flat-fours
[10:54] <christel> hullu BigRedS :)
[10:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: That is not a motorbike. It's a car without doors, roof and two wheels.
[10:59] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: that's what people say about my pan, too :(
[11:00] <BigRedS> it's like a cross, but it's the worst of both worlds. You can't easily filter through traffic but you still get wet when it rains
[11:00] <BigRedS> Oh hi christel!
[11:00]  * TheOpenSourcerer has no idea what a pan is BigRedS
[11:00] <BigRedS> oh, big touring bike. It's what the police used to ride
[11:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ah OK.
[11:01] <Dave2> Pan is clearly the Greek goat god.
[11:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> My last "proper" bike was one of these: http://www.motorbikespecs.net/index.dyn?flag=2&model_id=5840489&make=BSA
[11:03] <BigRedS> ah yeah, I've a dangerous hankering for that sort of thing
[11:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> I also had one of these: http://www.classicbikes.co.uk/machine4.html
[11:03] <BigRedS> instead I seem to collect bikes that aren't old enough to be of much interest, but old enough to fall apart lots and not have easy-to-find spares
[11:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Fast but didn't go round corners and *drank* fuel.
[11:05] <n1md4> Hello.  BigRed pointed out not only am I on ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we it's using Google maps, I nearly vomitted!  I only use completely free software, nor can I stand Google ... erm, can I be removed from that map?
[11:06] <nymwar> I agree that Google is losing its hipster cred
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> !flamebait
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> !flame
[11:06] <AlanBell> if you like
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> Hm, bot doesn't know those :)
[11:06] <AlanBell> personally I would rather OSM was up to the job of doing that kind of thing
[11:06] <n1md4> Er, no evil here, BEER :D
[11:07] <n1md4> AlanBell: If you wouldn't mind, I'd prefer that :-)
[11:07] <AlanBell> who are you?
[11:07] <n1md4> Jonathan Gowar
[11:08] <n1md4> nymwar: You've just gained a notch in my cool book ;-D
[11:09] <nymwar> For me the Google code search debacle was the last straw
[11:09] <n1md4> I was chatting to BigRed about Google this morning too, I've removed them so much from my cyberlife, that they make me cringe when I see they've ANOTHER service to track us by.
[11:09] <oimon> n1md4: do you drive a car or fly by air?
[11:09] <n1md4> I'd prefer not to.
[11:09] <AlanBell> Comment by Jonathan Gowar moved to the trash
[11:10] <AlanBell> should be gone now n1md4
[11:10] <n1md4> I'm not into warring about personal opinion either ;->
[11:10] <n1md4> Thanks AlanBell.
[11:10] <n1md4> I'll ride to work once I get wet weather gear, and no, I don't fly.
[11:10]  * oimon doesn't fly either, but not for software reasons
[11:11] <AlanBell> still would rather people say, "hey, you should use this cool OSM plugin which does mapping and actually works"
[11:11] <nymwar> You'll know that Google have fallen below the coolbar when they stop doing GSoC
[11:11] <MartijnVdS> oimon: you don't trust Boeing software engineers?
[11:11] <n1md4> I use Google, when there's nothing else, they're good programmers, I just don't like their model.
[11:11] <popey> they have just _started_ a new initiative nymwar
[11:12]  * penguin42 is going to miss google code search
[11:12] <oimon> MartijnVdS: *not* for software reasons
[11:12] <nymwar> Canceling code search seems like a big fail to me
[11:12] <popey> i never used it
[11:12] <MartijnVdS> I never use it, and I write code for a living
[11:12] <n1md4> oimon: Okay, I'm intriged, why did you ask about transport?
[11:12] <gord> code search was kinda crap
[11:13] <penguin42> popey: It's great - can't figure out how the given function is supposed to be used? Put the function name in and you'll find everyone who uses it
[11:13] <gord> well no
[11:13] <gord> you put in the function name and find the code of the library that used it and barely anything else
[11:13] <oimon> n1md4: just wondered, after you volunteered your opinions so vociferously on a service provided by google
[11:13] <penguin42> gord: you're obviously searching for the wrong thing :-)
[11:14] <gord> anything with good documentation gets re-used in other programs, so you don't need code search for that because the documentation is good. anything with bad/no documentation never gets used elsewhere, so you run in to the case above
[11:14] <n1md4> oimon: I troll around with a bit stick, I'm harmless ;-)
[11:14] <oimon> :P
[11:14] <n1md4> ...pretty sure my car isn't a service provided by Google though.
[11:14] <nymwar> :-)
[11:14] <oimon> i'm less grumpy irl :)
[11:14] <nymwar> not yet...
[11:15] <n1md4> It's a 1973 Beetle, I really doubt it.
[11:15] <nymwar> They have been doing stuff with autonomous driving
[11:16] <n1md4> .. technically not on the road, but I'd hope the Nissan doesn't have anything.  I'd rip it out, should I find out it does.
[11:16] <oimon> the lady from the gnome project at oggcamp gave a talk about getting the source code for her pacemaker-type device
[11:16] <popey> karen
[11:16] <oimon> yes
[11:16]  * Daviey wishes irssi had bayesian based /ignore option.
[11:17] <n1md4> ..and how you'd be a fool for not taking out the extended insurance; that's pretty crazy stuff.
[11:17]  * popey tickles Daviey 
[11:18]  * Daviey giggles like a little wee mcgregors
[11:28] <oimon> http://www.guardian.co.uk/government-computing-network/2011/oct/21/government-ict-strategy-implementation-plan?newsfeed=true
[11:28] <oimon> includes some good open source news at the bottom
[11:31] <BigRedS> I'm intrigued as to what they mean by 'cloud'...
[11:33] <AlanBell> they mean cheap
[11:33] <AlanBell> and pay as you go
[11:39] <BigRedS> yeah, but is there going to be some central government cloud 'provider' or will we again have each department making individual 'deals' with Amazon and Rackspace and the like?
[11:39] <BigRedS> govt. IT must be big enough to justify the former...
[11:40] <gordonjcp> oimon: Karen who was standing right next to me while popey tried to find me so she could get her bags out of my van
[11:41] <gordonjcp> while I was saying "what the fuck is popey doing at my van?"
[11:46] <popey> que
[11:46] <popey> i dont recall this
[11:47] <davmor2> popey: how much did you drink man
[11:48] <shauno> puts an interesting spin on waking up to find his phone had been wiped ;)
[11:49]  * AlanBell has an interview tomorrow for the Olympics transport team
[11:49] <Paul2> so you'll enjoy it when I accidentally close the Jubilee line then?
[11:50] <AlanBell> yeah
[11:50] <DJones> AlanBell: Are you planning on being a bus conductor
[11:50] <AlanBell> I might be driving round the beach vollyball team, or directing lorries in a loading bay
[11:50] <AlanBell> or something inbetween
[11:50] <christel> Paul2: do you often accidentally close the jubilee line?
[11:51] <Paul2> I haven't yet. But there is always that possibility :)
[11:51] <christel> AlanBell: make sure you don't employ issyl0 to give directions
[11:51] <shauno> this is publicly logged; deny everything!
[12:09] <gordonjcp> urgh
[12:09] <gordonjcp> why on earth does Ubuntu insist on dimming my screen?
[12:10] <chambo> Install caffeine
[12:10] <gordonjcp> what does that do?
[12:11] <chambo> It's an indicator applet that stops the screensaver and things like that coming on
[12:11] <chambo> Useful for watching flash videos
[12:11] <gordonjcp> I don't want that
[12:11] <gordonjcp> I want to stop the screensaver coming on at all
[12:11] <chambo> Oh
[12:12] <gordonjcp> even with the screensaver disabled, it turns the screen down to minimum brightness after ten minutes
[12:12] <chambo> It's in power preferences isn't it?
[12:12] <chambo> Or was in 11.04
[12:13] <gordonjcp> no, it's in display
[12:13] <gordonjcp> but all you can do is turn the brightness up and down
[12:13] <gordonjcp> the screen is about half as bright in Ubuntu as it is in Arch, and after ten minutes of inactivity it gets turned down to nothing
[12:14] <chambo> Hmm don't think I can help - I'm using xubuntu and it seems fine to me
[12:15] <gordonjcp> chambo: hm
[12:15] <AlanBell> I have been finding that when on battery power the screen brightness can go all flickery
[12:15] <gordonjcp> oh well, I can choose between switching back to Arch or doing some hardware mod to disable backlight dimming
[12:15] <AlanBell> and the brightness control only allows me to select all or nothing and it fades between them
[12:18] <gordonjcp> the auto-maximise thing is particularly infuriating
[12:21] <DJones> 5~I'm suffering from this bug with screen brightness https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/873731
[12:21] <lubotu3`> Ubuntu bug 873731 in Ubuntu "Screen brightness ignores AC power in 11.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[12:32] <scoundrel50a> hi, I am looking to get a dongle, and was looking at mifi, the only company I can find that offers it is 3, is that right or can you get it from somewhere else
[12:33] <scoundrel50a> or can somebody suggest a monthly no contract dongle that works with ubuntu, that isnt really expensive and is easy to use
[12:35] <popey> i have a 3 one
[12:35] <popey> works well
[12:35] <scoundrel50a> is that mifi?
[12:35] <popey> no
[12:35] <popey> dongle
[12:35] <popey> my co-worker has a 3 mifi
[12:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - Govt. IT contractors better be looking for new work:..
[12:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> " declared it wants no more than 15% of departments retained headcount will be filled by contractors by March 2015."
[12:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.publictechnology.net/sector/central-gov/analysis-sip-first-take
[12:36] <scoundrel50a> is it any good?
[12:36] <popey> yes
[12:36] <popey> http://www.three.co.uk/Devices/Huawei/E586/Black
[12:36] <popey> that one
[12:36] <scoundrel50a> ok, will go give it a go I think
[12:36] <scoundrel50a> thta was the one I was looking at
[12:37] <scoundrel50a> thanks popey
[12:37] <popey> its very nice
[12:37] <scoundrel50a> will let you know how I get on
[12:37] <popey> cool
[12:37] <popey> tempted myself
[12:38] <Paul2> when are we getting LTE. I want an LTE dongle. They are AWESOME.
[12:38] <popey> shauno: you have an optibay don't you?
[12:38] <popey> shauno: someone in ##apple asking about them
[12:38] <shauno> similar product, same idea
[12:39] <shauno> most the known issues I'm aware of are common to all of them tho
[12:39] <scoundrel50a> off to the three shop to take a look be back later
[12:39] <popey> shauno: can you say this in ##apple pls :D
[12:41] <popey> ooo amazon sell them
[12:53] <MooDoo> dad what's for dinner, wookie steak son, what's it like dad, not bad son, might be a little chewy
[12:54] <brobostigon> lol
[12:54] <gord> MooDoo, you could of just linked to the image thats going around ;)
[12:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> hey popey www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/10/neil-patel-precise/ "I’m a huge fan of the new Alt+tab, and I think it’s a big improvement over the previous one." :-D
[12:56] <nymwar> It looks more blingy
[12:56] <MooDoo> gord yeah, didn't bother with that :)
[12:58] <popey> *boggle*
[13:00] <gord> it TheOpenSourcerer decided not to quote "I should say that we’ve got great feedback about it and through that have identified some interesting edge-cases which we hope to solve for 12.04." ;)
[13:00] <gord> bit*
[13:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> I left that bit for the reader to find. I'd have been scorned for flooding if I'd pasted the whole paragraph.
[13:03] <AlanBell> gord: how come the unity plugin wasn't implemented as a bunch of separate plugins?
[13:03] <AlanBell> so you could choose between various switchers
[13:03] <popey> i fail to see how the issue I showed is an "edge case"
[13:03] <gordonjcp> I quite like the new alt-tab behaviour
[13:04] <popey> and fixing in 12.04 is just dumb. what about those of us sitting out the next 6 months with an infuriating alt-tab experience?
[13:04] <popey> Paul2: i figured out why i couldnt replicate the issue last night
[13:04] <gordonjcp> I never really thought about it before, but quite clearly selecting a window at random when you press alt-tab is the right way to go about it
[13:04] <gordonjcp> up to now, computers have been far too deterministic - a great way to fix that is to ensure you've got at least some random and unfathomable behaviour
[13:05] <nymwar> I don't think I've ever had an infuriating alt-tab experience
[13:05] <popey> i am happy for you
[13:05] <AlanBell> I think there is a grain of sense in the "application switching" model
[13:05] <shauno> speaking of infuriating ways to fix things; my bug for sandy bridge vs my dvd, was fix-released 1 week after oneiric. that one-week difference means I still can't install ubuntu because ata_piix on the isos is still broken for me
[13:06] <BigRedS> gordonjcp: I do find that my boring tasks languish less in new Unity
[13:06] <AlanBell> it would be great to have an alt+something that does application switching
[13:06] <BigRedS> 'cause they keep inadvertently coming back to my attention
[13:06] <AlanBell> and alt+tab does window switching
[13:06] <BigRedS> I'm sure there's some programming in there to make alt+tab favour what I don't want to do
[13:06] <shauno> AlanBell: out of interest, try alt+the key above tab?  or alt+tick/tilde ?
[13:07] <BigRedS> that is the key above tab :)
[13:07] <AlanBell> yes, but that isn't what I want to do
[13:07] <gordonjcp> I find I constantly have infuriating accidentally-maximised-window experiences
[13:07] <popey> BigRedS: not here it isnt :D
[13:07] <popey> mac club ☹
[13:07]  * BigRedS wonders if he's been away from a real keyboard for too long
[13:07] <BigRedS> oh, oh yeah. you're one of *those*
[13:07] <popey> ☺
[13:07] <shauno> yeah it's not on mine either, which is why I felt like clarifying  heh.   was just a hunch, based on the keys osx uses
[13:08] <gordonjcp> shauno: interesting, but what does it do?
[13:08] <gordonjcp> shauno: can you switch sideways in that display?
[13:08] <popey> switch windows within one app
[13:08] <nymwar> Couldn't we all just live inside of emacs buffers?
[13:08] <shauno> window switching within the same application, rather than all windows
[13:08] <gordonjcp> popey: right, but the very Mac-like coverflow thing suggests you should be able to switch between apps too
[13:09] <shauno> as I said, I'm basing this simply on the behaviour I'm used to in osx, and the odd belief that it's probably been copied ;)
[13:09] <gordonjcp> well that's the thing
[13:09] <gordonjcp> unity does appear to be heavily based around OSX
[13:09] <AlanBell> shauno: I want to flip between one terminal and one browser window
[13:09] <gordonjcp> which isn't a great idea, since OSX is a usability and accessiblilty nightmare
[13:09] <AlanBell> there may be other terminal/browser windows kicking about which I am not working with right now
[13:10] <popey> there is an option in nautilus called "Restore missing files..."
[13:10] <popey> what on earth does that do?
[13:10] <shauno> that's the behavior I expect; that alt-tab will pick the previous active window first
[13:10] <AlanBell> shauno: it doesn't
[13:11] <shauno> then I'm on your side.  It should.  (and does here, on the afore-mentioned "usability nightmare" ;)
[13:11] <AlanBell> well maybe it kind of does, but it raises all windows of the application you are switching to
[13:12] <AlanBell> so have a browser and a terminal side by side, alt tab from the browser to the terminal and a heap of other terminal windows pop up and obscure your browser
[13:12] <shauno> now that is the same.  $app is brought to the front, and the focus set on whichever child had focus previously.  so if I have 4 terminals open, I'll get focus on the one I was expecting; but all 4 will be above the previous app
[13:13] <AlanBell> yes, that sucks
[13:14] <AlanBell> then I have to use the mouse to click back on the browser and back on the terminal window I wanted to get them back to the top
[13:14] <AlanBell> then alt-tab and it happens all over again
[13:15] <nymwar> what about one maximized terminal per workspace?
[13:18] <shauno> hm; if I do that, alt-tilde ceases to cycle between the three; alt-tab still jumps to the last terminal that had focus
[13:21] <Paul2> popey: had you ticked the 'make me look stupid in the pub' option?
[13:22] <popey> :D
[13:23] <popey> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4984/asus-zenbook-ux21-teardown
[13:23] <popey> nice
[13:24] <cocoa117> how to sync certain type of file in certain folder to different folder? what application is best to do this?
[13:25] <popey> unison
[13:25] <cocoa117> say i want to sync all the *.pdf file from folder /home/abc/test to /home/abc/dropbox
[13:25] <cocoa117> popey, unison need to manually clicked, anything can be done automatically?
[13:26] <popey> it can be automatic
[13:26]  * popey chuckles at one of the servers
[13:26] <popey> Mem:  132103176k total, 131635292k used,   467884k free,   148672k buffers
[13:26] <popey> Swap: 33554424k total, 25653380k used,  7901044k free, 107037572k cached
[13:27] <shauno> you like your swapspace, eh?
[13:27] <cocoa117> popey, how?
[13:27] <cocoa117> unison -auto
[13:28] <popey> cron job
[13:28] <popey> perhaps?
[13:28] <popey> shauno: yeah, swappy swappy swappy
[13:30] <cocoa117> popey, don't really work, tried, keep asking u to confirm what to sync
[13:30] <popey> ☹
[13:35] <silner> I've just installed 11.10 and wondering - if I want to try Kubuntu-Desktop is default the normal version - as opposed to full and netbook?
[13:36]  * dwatkins explains to a colleague who has just installed 11.10 where the menus went
[13:37] <silner> I know the feeling dwatkins :)
[13:39] <popey> silner: there's kubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-full and kubuntu-netbook
[13:39] <popey> and kubuntu-mobile too.. blimey, loads of them
[13:40] <dwatkins> he's installing owncloud from the terminal, so there is progress
[13:40] <silner> popey, yeah I was trying to decide which to try - it's a bit overwhelming - have you tried/would you recommend one?
[13:40] <oimon> i did kubuntu-desktop the other day
[13:40] <popey> nope
[13:40] <oimon> *-desktop is always the safest to get the whole caboodle
[13:40] <popey> I wouldn't recommend any of them ☺
[13:40] <silner> What do you think of it oimon?
[13:41] <oimon> kubuntu-desktop  provided what i expected.
[13:41] <oimon> a working KDE. however as usual i didn't stick with it for long. i am giving xfce an extended try and seems to be more my style
[13:42] <dwatkins> Unity is getting complained about near me, as the icons are huge and it's difficult to find anything :-/
[13:42] <silner> I might try it. Ubuntu is proving very hard to get used to - it's starting to make some sense - but some programs provide no proper way of Quitting - such as Turpial - has that been mentioned popey?
[13:43] <silner> I didn't see Xubuntu-desktop in Synaptic?
[13:43] <dwatkins> I used xubuntu recently, and was pleasantly surprised, but each to their own :)
[13:44] <oimon> xubuntu-desktop is there silner
[13:45] <popey> !info turpial
[13:45] <lubotu3`> Package turpial does not exist in natty
[13:45] <popey> er
[13:45] <popey> why is the bot on natty
[13:45] <oimon> i went mad the other day and installed all the *-desktops for a trial. then wiped and put xubuntu on
[13:45] <silner> Oh yeah, oimon - I must have been blind when I browsed
[13:45]  * popey calls for jpds 
[13:45] <silner> popey - it's new to Ubuntu - been in Fedora for ages
[13:45] <oimon> !info turpial oneiric
[13:45] <lubotu3`> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
[13:46] <popey> silner: doesn't sound like a unity issue
[13:47] <silner> All I can say is it worked with Gnome 3 popey - I'll try Xubuntu and report back
[13:47] <popey> does the app not have a quit option in the menu?
[13:47] <popey> File -> Quit.
[13:47] <popey> or close or whatever
[13:48] <silner> No Unity menu appears popey and the issue may be - with that app the x button has always been a minimize to tray function - you had to choose quit from the file menu
[13:48] <oimon> http://code.google.com/p/turpial/issues/detail?id=21 suggests that it was added
[13:49] <oimon> i have a similar behaviour with hotot
[13:49] <silner> I was just going to say that oimon
[13:49] <oimon> there should be one great twitter app to rule them all
[13:49] <silner> There's an issue with Pino too but I've forgotten what that was now
[13:50] <silner> That's partly why I want to try Xubuntu to try and isolate where the problem is
[13:50] <oimon> you can also whitelist apps to appear in the tray
[13:50] <freakyclown> \o/
[13:50] <freakyclown> i fixed a bunch of issues with 11.10
[13:50] <silner> Ironically Xchat-Gnome (which I installed without thinking) works perfectly with Unity
[13:51] <freakyclown> by removing all my cuda stuff :(
[13:54] <silner> May be Ubuntu just has older versions than Fedora - it might have nothing to do with Unity. Testing must be boring for the people who do it full time :)
[13:55] <popey> all linux twitter clients suck ass.
[13:56] <popey> _all_ of them
[13:56] <oimon> seems like it's the dumping ground of 1/2 written apps
[13:56] <MooDoo> +1
[13:57] <popey> IMNSHO the ipad twitter client is the single best twitter client on any platform
[13:57] <MooDoo> gwibber should be getting column support for ubuntu LTS
[13:57] <oimon> whereas it's not like a music player where you have different tastes and needs (e.g. play video, ipod sync, music store)
[13:57] <silner> popey - yeah I have to say though - and this may be unpopular - Tweetdeck is better than any native client - it's my primary reason for using Chrome (AIR version is crap on Linux)
[13:57] <popey> yeah, tweetdeck does look nice
[13:57] <MooDoo> pain to get air working on 64bit though
[13:57] <oimon> hotot works OK for me but some people would prefer more features and i understand that
[13:58] <popey> polly is promising
[13:58] <oimon> many are/were  promising...
[13:58] <popey> well yes
[13:59] <silner> The Chome App is very good though has all the main features - possibly the best written piece of HTML5 I've ever seen - actually quite demoralising inasmuch as it's so far ahead of my learning curve
[14:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - 5yr support for 12.04 desktop LTS.
[14:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.canonical.com/content/ubuntu-1204-feature-extended-support-period-desktop-users
[14:02] <dwatkins> Chrome thinks freenas.org is a phishing site O.O
[14:04] <popey> i woudln't be surprised if that means we dont get a 14.04 LTS
[14:04] <oimon> maybe they are switching to 12 monthly releases
[14:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> The picture shows a 14.04LTS
[14:04] <popey> yeah, i know.. now...
[14:05] <popey> i dunno
[14:05] <oimon> it really relegates the inbetween releases to the playground - not necessarily a bad thing
[14:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> 5 years on a desktop seems a bit optimistic to me. Can't think of a PC or anything like it that I'd keep for 5 years... Moore's law and all that.
[14:06] <MooDoo> dwatkins: oh yeah :)
[14:06] <popey> it doesn't work like that
[14:06] <MooDoo> dwatkins: it will let you proceed though
[14:06] <oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: our phd students generally like to keep the same major release version for the duration of the phd
[14:06] <oimon> around 3-4 years
[14:06] <popey> its more that you can deploy loads of different machines over the 5 year period and they will have the same build
[14:07] <oimon> which means that you could install 12.04 in 2013...yeah what popey said
[14:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - I know but compare what  desktop/laptop computing looked like 5yrs ago to what it is nw. Then think what it *might* look like in 5 years time.
[14:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> I'm sure there are big players that want it or they wouldn't have done it.
[14:08] <shauno> in 5 years time, my employer might have actually transitioned away from XP
[14:08] <oimon> centos6 still looks the same as ubuntu 4.04
[14:08] <Dave2> I'd still be using my 5 year old laptop if its screen hadn't died \o/
[14:09] <oimon> i'm still handing out 4 & 5 year old machines to friends with 10.04 on
[14:10] <popey> hmm, how old is the eee now
[14:10] <shauno> 'disposable' old
[14:10] <oimon> haven't touched mine since i got the touchpad
[14:10] <oimon> my 1yr old will have it as his first pc
[14:10] <popey> 2007
[14:10] <popey> blimey
[14:11] <popey> my kids have an eee 900 each
[14:11] <oimon> seems like yesterday i got the 701
[14:11] <popey> yeah
[14:11] <Dave2> Seems like yesterday I started uni :(
[14:11] <popey> i used to sit in the curry house with my 701, using their wifi
[14:14] <shauno> channel.applyFilter('sepia');
[14:20] <popey> lol
[14:26]  * czajkowski is playing with her new advent vega,sooo fast :D 
[14:27] <Dave2> does ti gfaeature a massive claw?
[14:27] <Dave2> ...it features
[14:27] <Dave2> feature.
[14:27] <Dave2> io give up.
[14:27] <shauno> third time's the .. oh, nm
[14:49] <Guest8492> well, there goes the server uptime :(
[14:53] <bigcalm> What was the uptime?
[15:04] <Guest8492> no idea
[15:04] <Guest8492> why can't i be gord =\
[15:06] <bigcalm> You're not logged in
[15:08] <Guest52713> no i have to release it
[15:13] <sammm> How do I theme Unity? I've installed the Dust Sand theme but I can't theme anything :/
[15:13]  * sammm hates the default theme but LOVES Dust Sand
[15:15] <ali1234> you caaaaaaan't
[15:15] <ali1234> all those old themes are for gtk2
[15:16] <ali1234> nobody is porting or making themes for gtk3, because frankly, nobody is interested in using it
[15:16] <oimon> or that it is still early days.
[15:17] <ali1234> it has been available for a couple of years now
[15:17] <sammm> ali1234: Well that sucks
[15:17] <popey> I'm inclined to agree. people make themes very early on
[15:17] <popey> sammm: you know you're banned here.
[15:17] <sammm> popey: No
[15:17] <sammm> popey: I just want to retheme my 11.10
[15:18] <ali1234> and as of today there are exactly 3 gtk3 themes in existence, the two made by canonical and the gnome3 default
[15:18] <popey> maybe I am mistaken? you're Samuel-notafk?
[15:18] <bigcalm> ali1234: start a project to make your own?
[15:18] <sammm> I only see Radiance, Ambiance and HighContrast :(
[15:18] <ali1234> bigcalm: did you miss the point about nobody being interested in using it?
[15:18] <bigcalm> ali1234: I miss a lot of things :)
[15:18] <popey> heh
[15:19] <ali1234> bigcalm: i'm not complaining. i couldn't care less if anyone makes gtk3 themes. i'm not interested in using either unity or gnome in the long term
[15:19] <bigcalm> I miss spinach as it gives me anaphylactic shock :(
[15:19] <popey> blimey
[15:19] <ali1234> as such i won't be starting a project to fix perceived problems in software that i do not use
[15:19] <bigcalm> ali1234: ah, that's fair enough then :)
[15:20] <sammm> What could I use instead of Unity?
[15:20] <oimon> bigcalm: if nobody told you that you couldn't eat spinach, you probably wouldn't be interested...but as soon as we can't have something..MEE WANNT
[15:20] <bigcalm> sammm: I'm using xubuntu-desktop. But that's because I need multi monitor support
[15:21] <bigcalm> oimon: I actually enjoy the taste, it's the after taste that leaves a lump in my throat ;)
[15:21] <oimon> none of the great gnome2 themes came until much later
[15:21] <bastubis> flossie meeting now in the #fossbox channel if there are any interested women here?
[15:21] <sammm> Dust Sand is the best theme
[15:27] <sammm> popey: Why would I be banned?
[15:27] <popey> are you Samuel-NotAFK?
[15:28] <sammm> popey: Sometimes
[15:28] <popey> in which case you are, and you're evading
[15:28] <sammm> popey: Damn :(
[15:29] <sammm> popey: What is best out of Unity, Gnome Shell and KDE?
[15:30]  * oimon wonders why he got banned
[15:31] <sammm> oimon: Probably for being rude.
[15:32]  * oimon wonders also how long bans last for..until repentance is shown, or elapsed time, or never (bwahahah)
[15:32] <popey> none ever has been shown
[15:32] <popey> just comes back with different nickname / hostmask / ip and then starts talking about inappropriate stuff
[15:32] <sammm> oimon: Probably forever
[15:32] <popey> no apologies, no change in behaviour
[15:33] <silner> How do you make Xubuntu the default desktop in 11.10 - keeps rebooting into Unity :(
[15:33] <popey> I'd rather you weren't banned
[15:33] <sammm> popey: Really? Why?
[15:33] <popey> why what?
[15:33] <sammm> popey: Are we friends or something?
[15:33] <popey> i dont like having people banned in here
[15:34] <silner> I don't like seeing people banned
[15:34] <brobostigon> silner: you should be able to choose it, at login, and use that, untill you tell it differently.
[15:34] <silner> Yeah I tried that but it keeps coming back to Unity when I restart - maybe because I use autologin - can't quite see what's going wrong
[15:35] <sammm> Is gnome-tweak-tool safe to use with 11.10?
[15:35] <oimon> i think if sammm acted like a jerk in 2009 he should be man enough to apologise and change his behaviour ;_
[15:35] <silner> I agree with that too oimon
[15:35] <silner> I'm agreeing a lot :)
[15:35] <silner> That's not like me :)
[15:35] <oimon> it must be friday
[15:36] <bigcalm> TGI Friday
[15:37] <brobostigon> beer friday.
[15:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> yipeee!
[15:37] <sammm> Gnome Shell, KDE or Unity?
[15:37] <silner> brobostigon, I can't for the life of me figure out what's happening - what could overriding my selection?
[15:37] <brobostigon> sammm: i use gnome-shell/gnome3 personally.
[15:37] <sammm> brobostigon: Why?
[15:38] <brobostigon> silner: good question, i am trying to think aswell.
[15:38] <popey> !best | sammm
[15:38] <lubotu3`> sammm: Usually, there is no single "best" application to perform a given task. It's up to you to choose, depending on your preferences, features you require, and other factors. Do NOT take polls in the channel. If you insist on getting people's opinions, ask BestBot in #ubuntu-bots.
[15:38] <brobostigon> sammm: it simply works best for me, simple as that,
[15:39] <sammm> I've been out-of-the-loop for Linux development for the last 18 months or so, what are the main options now besides Gnome Shell, KDE and Unity?
[15:40] <oimon> xfce, lxde,
[15:40] <brobostigon> sammm: wm's or de's, or both?
[15:40] <sammm> brobostigon: DEs I mean
[15:40] <sammm> oimon: Aren't those for low-end PCs?
[15:40] <ali1234> yes
[15:41] <oimon> not necessarily
[15:41] <oimon> depends on your workflow and preferences
[15:41] <brobostigon> sammm: ither than lxde, and gnome3,and unity. i dont think it has really changed much.
[15:41] <oimon> kde feels heavy on whatever PC i throw it on
[15:41] <brobostigon> oimon: i agree. yes.
[15:41] <ali1234> kde is just plain slow
[15:42] <brobostigon> i would rather use gnome, it being lighter, and deal with having less options.
[15:42] <ali1234> not in the sense that it needs a lot of resources. it just feels really laggy and unresponsive, even when the CPU is idle
[15:42] <brobostigon> than use heavier options.
[15:43] <ali1234> hildon-desktop is a good alternative for netbooks
[15:43] <oimon> it's possible to turn down the heaviness of KDE but i lost my kde-fu since 3.5.x and can't be bothered
[15:43] <silner> brobostigon, Gnome 3 is a lot faster than Unity - I don;t like the deign that much but it is fast
[15:43] <popey> ali1234: hildon is still maintained?
[15:43] <ali1234> popey: yeah some meego refugees took over
[15:43] <popey> nice
[15:43] <oimon> unity2d is also fast
[15:43] <brobostigon> silner: i prefer some of the design in gnome-shell, than with unity. it simply fits better, for my mind.
[15:43] <ali1234> it's much better than unity or gnome-shell anyway
[15:43] <popey> yeah, i have unity2d on a couple of eee900s
[15:43] <popey> quick enough
[15:44] <ali1234> unity2d should be the main unity
[15:44] <ali1234> nearly all the bugs in unity are caused by compiz
[15:44] <ali1234> and qt supports 3d acceleration
[15:44] <sammm> oimon: I've stopped being a fan of KDE since 3.5.x too
[15:44] <silner> brobostigon, yeah I like Gnome 3 better than Unity - if I had to choose - but I still prefer Gnome 2 best of all :(
[15:44] <ali1234> so just dump compiz and do it properly
[15:44] <sammm> silner: I think I prefer Gnome 2 too, but isn't it discontinued now?
[15:44] <ali1234> also compiz plugin architecture is a total mess that just makes everything more complicated than it has to be
[15:45] <brobostigon> silner: there are alot of things, that i didnt like in gnome2, that are solved, and improved in gnome3/gnome-shell.
[15:45] <jacobw> has anyone else been PM'd by 'sskniranjan'
[15:45] <silner> brobostigon, depends what you mean - I haven't found any actual bugs with G3 - I mean they have to be credited for that
[15:46] <jacobw> what about windows are too tall for netbook display silner ?
[15:46] <brobostigon> silner: also, i prefer the notifications, and workspaces and atl-tab in gnome-shell.
[15:46] <ali1234> that's a bug with your netbook
[15:47] <ali1234> the gnome-shell notifications look ridiculous on my screen, they are huge
[15:47] <silner> I don't have a netbook jacobw so I couldn't offer an opinion
[15:47] <jacobw> its a bug with their window manager
[15:47] <ali1234> they fill up about 1/4 of the monitor
[15:47] <silner> I used to but it died :(
[15:48] <sammm> How do I tweak cursor size in 11.10?
[15:49] <silner> Right I'm off to try to figure out why my default dm isn't being respected :)
[15:52] <oimon> proof that steve jobs was insane http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15400984
[15:53] <sammm> Does anyone else get really annoyed by how the Unity sidebar keeps hiding and takes forever to reappear with mouse over?
[15:53] <oimon> CEOs that say stuff like  "I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong."
[15:53] <sammm> oimon: Duh, he was mad
[15:53] <sammm> oimon: I'd say Steve Jobs is worse than Gadaffi really
[15:54] <jacobw> in what way :|
[15:54] <sammm> jacobw: Global suffering
[15:54] <sammm> jacobw: Evilness
[15:54] <sammm> jacobw: General cuntiness
[15:54] <oimon> jcastro is giving a unity power users irc session in 5 minutes
[15:54] <jpds> sammm: Alright.
[15:54] <popey> sammm: seriously?
[15:55] <ali1234> oimon: where?
[15:55] <jacobw> i would !language you, but it seems redundant
[15:55] <sammm> popey: Yep. You know about his slave workers in Asia, right?
[15:55] <oimon> ali1234: https://twitter.com/#!/castrojo/status/127402486586802176
[15:55] <oimon> trying to find the irc room
[15:55] <popey> i thought you might moderate your language sammm
[15:55] <popey> #ubuntu-classroom
[15:55] <popey> #ubuntu-classroom-chat
[15:55] <shauno> I'm curious if you can name any other companies foxxcon assemble products for.  because there's *many*.
[15:56] <jacobw> nobody has suffered from steve jobs actions without choosing to become involved in his enterprise
[15:56] <ali1234> obvious troll is obvious
[15:57] <jacobw> anyway, this isn't an argument i want to have.
[15:57] <bigcalm> And more than off topic
[15:57] <sammm> jacobw: And nobody has suffered from Gadaffi without choosing to become involved.
[15:57] <popey> sammm: enough
[15:58] <bigcalm> sammm: troll elsewhere please
[16:00] <sammm> I like how the guest account is setup on 11.10. I can lend someone my computer without worrying about them seeing all my private stuff. :)
[16:03] <jacobw> did anyone see Brian Cox on Question Time last night?
[16:03] <popey> missed it
[16:03] <shauno> I haven't turned my TV on since they stopped putting dr who on it :/
[16:03] <bigcalm> I was at a concert
[16:03] <sammm> shauno: LOL same!
[16:04] <jacobw> i think i'll watch it on the iplayer, i hope it isn't terribly predictable.
[16:05] <jacobw> i.e. the politicians lose him in a race to the most illogical conclusion
[16:06] <sammm> jacobw: What's so significant about Brian Cox being on question time?
[16:06] <jacobw> he's a prominent scientist that i enjoy listening to talking about interesting things
[16:06] <sammm> jacobw: Haha yeah he's a physicist, isn't he?
[16:07] <jacobw> oh FFS
[16:07] <sammm> jacobw: LOL he's an actor
[16:07] <jacobw> it's not THAT brian cox
[16:07] <sammm> jacobw: LOLOLOLOLOL BBC trolled you hard
[16:07] <jacobw> they certainly have :|
[16:08] <sammm> jacobw: I wish I could have seen the look on your face when you found out you got trolled by the BBC
[16:08] <popey> you're not contributing in any meaningful way here sammm
[16:09] <davmor2> popey: Man that took you a while :)
[16:09] <popey> he'll be back ☹
[16:10] <shauno> it's rather difficult to just ban BT.  especially in here, of all places
[16:10] <popey> heh
[16:10] <jacobw> ha
[16:10] <bigcalm> Oh dear, found out that my fountain pen ink fades to nothing if left in the sun for long enough :(
[16:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: Ooops
[16:11] <bigcalm> Notes I had written on a client spec have vanished!
[16:11] <jpds> popey: 'sup.
[16:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: Ouch! that's not fun
[16:12] <shauno> I really want to figure out what drives the wiki engine in osx-server, but it's some ruby *ahem*
[16:12] <MooDoo> he hadn't said anything yet lol
[16:12] <davmor2> popey: hahaha
[16:12] <DJones> MooDoo: ban evasion, so justified :)
[16:12] <MooDoo> ah
[16:13] <Laney> is ban avoidance legal?
[16:13] <popey> define "legal"
[16:13] <Laney> never mind, it was a joke :(
[16:13] <popey> oh i seeeeee
[16:14] <Laney> based on tax evasion/avoidance — funny, y'see?
[16:14] <MooDoo> laney, er no :) lol
[16:14] <Laney> WRONG, IT WAS
[16:14] <MooDoo> hee hee
[16:15] <davmor2> Laney: possibly not!  especially when dealing with a wally at the time
[16:29] <davmor2> bigcalm: if you use lemon juice and a little heat does it all reappear?
[16:30] <bigcalm> Um, I'll try later for a giggle
[16:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: haha
[16:33]  * bigcalm does the Safety Dance
[16:33] <bigcalm> (I do not have a hat)
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ♫
[16:34] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: glad you agree :)
[16:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: you can only do the safety dance with a safety hat on otherwise it simply isn't safe ;)
[16:36] <bigcalm> Tell that to the masters of pop :P
[16:36] <shauno> sounds like a good moment to substitute in http://inversephase.bandcamp.com/track/fami-dance
[16:36] <bigcalm> I've stopped dancing and now I'm on a road to nowhere
[16:37] <davmor2> bigcalm: Nooooooo off that road quick or you'll wind up in telford ;)
[16:37] <bigcalm> Damn my lack of flash
[16:37] <bigcalm> :P
[16:37] <shauno> heh, I respect your lack of flash.  it's just safety dance covered on a NES :)
[16:37] <bigcalm> davmor2: I'd say that the A41 is a road to nowhere :P
[16:38] <bigcalm> shauno: cool
[16:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: depends on the direction of travel :P
[16:38] <shauno> I see your A41 and raise an a590 :/
[16:38] <bigcalm> davmor2: south, from Newport
[16:39] <bigcalm> That said, I'll be on that road on Sunday evening. Going to the Civic to see Erasure
[16:39] <shauno> used to hate that road.  it felt like you'd gone back to the mid-80s by time you got to the end of it
[16:40] <bigcalm> shauno: does it lead to Wolverhampton?
[16:40] <davmor2> bigcalm: I think Solihull might disagree with you
[16:40] <shauno> bigcalm: worse!
[16:40] <shauno> I've driven thru wolverhampton.  atleast it's not a dead-end
[16:41] <davmor2> shauno: not been on the ring road lately then?
[16:41] <bigcalm> Hehehe
[16:41] <shauno> that would have been .. oh dear .. 18 years ago?
[16:42] <bigcalm> I want to go to the Imperial! Wonder if I can convince Hayley that we should go tonight
[16:43] <davmor2> bigcalm: no just go park up there eat at the imperial then go up the hill to the civic done
[16:44] <bigcalm> davmor2: Civic is on Sunday with her mother and auntie and a cousin. I'm the only bloke and driving. Playing the good future son in law :D
[16:44] <davmor2> bigcalm: Botched that up then dude ;)
[16:45] <bigcalm> Haha
[16:45] <bigcalm> We'll see how it goes
[16:45] <bigcalm> btw, I Want Candy
[16:46] <davmor2> bigcalm: Tough I've got candy you've got Hayley you can't have it both ways
[16:47]  * davmor2 → tea
[17:12]  * davmor2 back steak 'n' chip mmmmm
[17:14] <bigcalm> davmor2: guess where we're eating tonight ;)
[17:20] <davmor2> bigcalm: the chippy?
[17:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: over to Wolvo twice in a week?
[17:24] <bigcalm> davmor2: The Imperial :P and yes, we must be mad
[17:25] <davmor2> bigcalm: No again you have it wrong, if you're coming to Wolvo that often it means you live in the wrong place to start with ;)
[17:36] <bigcalm> :D
[17:36] <bigcalm> We like living here. Everything is in reach while being far enough away to be quiet
[17:36] <bigcalm> And I have 30mb cable. Life is complete
[17:38] <davmor2> bigcalm: you know that's not true you'd need the imperial to move to the end of the street for live to be truely complete ;)
[17:39] <bigcalm> There is a limit to how frequently I could like the Imperial ;)
[17:53] <davmor2> bigcalm: haha
[17:54] <davmor2> bigcalm: you want to try the copper bowl at some point :)
[18:22] <lucky___> audio device is not listed under hardware tab of sound preferences, as a result no sound.  Help
[18:31] <popey> \o/
[18:34] <tonytiger> heh
[18:34] <tonytiger> it's always worth sticking around for 3 minutes
[18:34] <tonytiger> but 4 is out of the question
[18:43] <gordonjcp> tonytiger: APNIC IP address, so they're likely off to post the same question 200 times in random forum threads with the subject like "HELP NO SOUND MOST URGENT"
[19:13] <jussi> where is davmor2 when I need him....
[19:13] <davmor2> I'm over there
[19:14] <jussi> hehe
[19:14] <jussi> davmor2: I have a video for you... no doubt youll love it... :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5sq0am3HdI (if you havent seen it before)
[19:16] <jussi> davmor2: enjoy :P - Im off again...
[19:17] <davmor2> haha
[19:17] <davmor2> jussi: nice
[19:17] <davmor2> jussi: you're a classy guy :)
[19:17] <jussi> banana!
[22:47]  * penguin42 yaawwwwnnns
[22:47] <penguin42> I seem to have succeeded in turning a 40min train journey into 3h40
[22:58] <bigcalm> popey: you awake?