[11:11] <jaddi27> sagaci, I am happy for the two translation teams to be combined
[11:11] <head_victim> jaddi27: have a preference for what team is a member of the other?
[11:12] <sagaci> I've just always thought that the ubuntu en_au team was the main one, (mainly due to membership) but it really doesn't bother me which is the parent, so to speak
[11:12] <jaddi27> Well, after just reading your email, I am not entirely sure
[11:13] <head_victim> Just trying to generate thoughts and conversation, I'm not always right just trying to think of all the options
[11:13] <jaddi27> what sagaci says makes sense, I think, but I can see what head_victim means
[11:14] <head_victim> Whoever gets made the member you just got to think of the permissions.
[11:14] <jaddi27> Is it possible to give people permission to translate one but not the other with just the one group?
[11:14] <sagaci> along, with membership, the idea that ubuntu packages are what we're generally aiming for (that's what we're here for), the repo main pkgs, whereas I see the Launchpad team taking the universe packages (ie. community)
[11:14] <head_victim> sagaci: there's also a lot of projects on launchpad that have nothing to do with Ubuntu
[11:15] <sagaci> but at the same time, if you don't want to translate into ubuntu, you don't have to, likewise muting certain mail
[11:17] <head_victim> Yeah, just trying to see the use case for making Launchpad the member of Ubuntu. To me it's not about which team has the most members but about what permissions you give the members by making one of them a member of the other.
[11:18] <sagaci> well for me, the whole reason for the team initially was to translate ubuntu projects that aren't in main
[11:20] <head_victim> Yeah, that's why the Ubuntu team should be a member of the Launchpad team. To allow Ubuntu members to translate all Ubuntu packages no matter whether they are main, universe or multiverse.
[11:20] <jaddi27> That would make sense
[11:20] <jaddi27> Is it possible to transfer the users of one group to another group?
[11:21] <head_victim> I don't think so without users manually doing it. The whole idea is if you want that you make one team a member of the other I think.
[11:22] <jaddi27> Ok. I didn't realise you could do that
[11:23] <sagaci> ah yep, so we'd be encouraging users to use the main Launchpad group to subscribe, so they can effectively do everything on launchpad, translation-wise
[11:23] <sagaci> ah wait, other way around
[11:23] <sagaci> subscribe to the ubuntu team to then get the benefits of LP's mailing list, membership and translation privs
[11:24] <head_victim> Depends on what they want to translate. If they want to translate anything Ubuntu, they should join the Ubuntu team, if they only want to translate unrelated Launchpad projects they should join the Launchpad team (assuming the Ubuntu team is a member of the Launchpad team)
[11:25] <sagaci> but they'd be still able to translate LP by subbing to the ubuntu team, since it's a sub-team, maybe?
[11:27] <head_victim> Ok, assuming the Ubuntu team is a member of the Launchpad team. This would mean Launchpad team members can translate Launchpad projects. Ubuntu translation members coudl translate everything Ubuntu as well as everything launchpad (as they would be a member of that team indirectly)
[11:27] <sagaci> yep
[11:27] <jaddi27> I think it would be useful to only have to join one team to do en_AU translations, as in the end, I think our goal is for software to be translated
[11:27] <jaddi27> So if head_victim's last comment works, that would be best
[11:28] <sagaci> so then, essentially, the next idea is to close/redirect the ubuntu en_AU mailing to the "parent" launchpad one
[11:28] <head_victim> jaddi27: basically you only have to join one team, if you want to translate Ubuntu you join it and you can do it all as well as LP, if you only want to translate other LP stuff you only join the LP team.
[11:28] <head_victim> That's the whole idea of making teams members of another team.
[11:28] <jaddi27> That sounds fine to me, head_victim
[11:29] <head_victim> I don't mind if it's not how it's foreseen I just can't see a use case for making the LP team a member of the Ubuntu team but I can for the other way around
[11:30] <jaddi27> sagaci, maybe redirect the ubuntu list to the launchpad list
[11:30] <sagaci> yeah, that's the way I'm thinking
[11:31] <jaddi27> I think that the ubuntu list is relatively new, so it should not affect many people
[11:32] <sagaci> it auto-added them
[11:32] <jaddi27> i was more meaning that there have not been many emails to it since you created it
[11:33] <sagaci> yes, I guess it's the nature of the team, work on what you'd like done, type of thing
[11:34] <head_victim> It's good to centralise resources though so people know where to turn when there are issues.
[11:36] <sagaci> yes and I'd argue that most if not all of the 12-or-so LP translators joined for the reason of working on universe/multiverse packages that eventually go into Ubuntu.
[11:37] <head_victim> sagaci: I agree wholeheartedly but I was purely looking at members permissions
[11:38] <sagaci> if the need arises to separate the two teams due to a wild intake of non-ubuntu-takers, then it's not too hard to reverse and resume having separate everythings
[11:39] <sagaci> member permissions, not sure what you mean by this, both team are Moderated
[11:41] <head_victim> Yes but making one a member of the other means one team gets the permissions of the other team
[11:44] <sagaci> but is that an inherently a bad idea
[11:45] <head_victim> It's an inherently complex idea :/ https://help.launchpad.net/Teams/CreatingAndRunning has a bit of information on it
[11:47] <bradm> having one team as a member of another is quite common in launchpad
[11:49] <sagaci> I think that may be the case for many teams but for a team as small and focused as the two l10n teams, we're just consolidating efforts for now until the need arises for change
[11:50] <head_victim> bradm: yep, just working out the finer points of the implications on permissions as to what team is a member of the other.
[11:50] <bradm> ah, you're talking about 2 l10n teams?  thats tricker
[11:51] <bradm> generally you do things like that by having the 2 seperate teams, and giving perms to each, or making a 3rd with both in it, but I don't know the specifics of what you're talking about
[11:52] <head_victim> The 2 teams is a LP  & a U team for the same l10n. So it was just deciding which one was the member of the other.
[11:52] <sagaci> never thought of the 3rd team idea
[11:52] <head_victim> I can foresee that it's possible someone wants to translate LP stuff and wants to avoid U stuff but I can't see the reverse of that ever happening.
[11:53] <bradm> head_victim: you'd be surprised what people want..
[11:54] <sagaci> head_victim, not necessarily, think of potential new members to the ubuntu-au LoCo, wanting to help out with Ubuntu and not Launchpad-hosted packages
[11:54] <sagaci> when I started translation, I'd prefer to do stuff that on my ubuntu system than the rest of the packages out there
[11:55] <sagaci> that's*
[11:55] <head_victim> Yeah but like you found out, a lot of stuff used in Ubuntu isn't translated by the Ubuntu team because it's not in main.
[11:55] <sagaci> there's an argument for both sides
[12:00] <head_victim> Yeah, that's why I was keen to discuss it. I wasn't sure I was understanding the email 100%. I honestly don't mind either way I was just looking to try and solve it using permissions to make it work for people no matter what their interest was. But I now see it's nice and complex no matter what you do.
[12:02] <sagaci> that's fine
[15:03] <sagaci> translators batch now starts at 1050
[22:54] <ikt> morning all :)
[23:02] <compacthack> Morning ikt
[23:04] <ikt> heya compacthack :)
[23:04] <ikt> what you up to?
[23:05] <compacthack> Making use of this sunshine, doing the Laundry!
[23:06] <compacthack> How about you?
[23:07] <ikt> same thing lol :D
[23:07] <ikt> and also making an 11.10 boot up usb and making a long post on why ubuntu ended up going with unity over gnome 2
[23:08] <compacthack> How are you finding unity, I did a fresh install of 11.10 on a spare drive during the week, finding the dual monitor support very disappointing, I'm sure it will be fixed but is stopping Me from using for the moment
[23:10] <ikt> unity is 80/20 for me
[23:10] <ikt> 80% good, 20% bad
[23:10] <ikt> I'm surprised at how many people have dual monitors
[23:11] <ikt> but overall I find unity to be better than gnome 2
[23:11] <ikt> and gnome 3 and kde4
[23:11] <ikt> here's my post: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?p=13719634#post13719634
[23:13] <compacthack> Good work
[23:14] <compacthack> I agree unity isn't perfect, I'm sure it will keep getting better, mainly because of the obvious  Shuttleworth push
[23:14] <ikt> yeah exactly
[23:15] <compacthack> Yeah must be lots of multi monitor users, looking through launchpad, lots of dual monitor bugs, lots of people effected
[23:15] <head_victim> compacthack: what's not working on the dual monitors?
[23:16] <ikt> launcher isn't playing well
[23:16] <compacthack> The launcher is in the wrong place, the notifications and the clock stuff is repeated on both screens, the RHS notifications and clock don't click correctly, you click once and they only pop up for the duration of the click
[23:17] <compacthack> just a few little things I'm sure they'll iron out
[23:18] <compacthack> programs don't always remember were they should open
[23:22] <compacthack> Anyone have trouble installing chrome (not chromium) into 11.10? I had to do it from terminal, software center didn't like the .deb from google
[23:24] <ikt> yeah
[23:25] <ikt> there was a known issue
[23:26] <ikt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/868188
[23:28] <compacthack> Better subscribe to notifications on that one
[23:29] <ikt> tbh that's one of the bugs that should not have made it to live :/
[23:30] <compacthack> yeak, chrome is fairly popular these days