[15:11] <beardygnome> knome: good luck for the vote today
[15:11] <beardygnome> is there anywhere where you and charlie have outlined your plans for the next 3 releases?
[15:11] <knome> beardygnome, thanks :)
[15:11] <knome> i have, in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XPL
[15:12] <beardygnome> thanks
[15:40] <GridCube> good morning :)
[15:41] <knome> ning
[16:16] <charlie-tca> Good morning
[16:16] <GridCube> :D
[16:16] <GridCube> good morning
[16:16] <knome> evening
[16:16] <pleia2> morning
[16:17] <knome> oh hai pleia2 :)
[16:17] <pleia2> g'day knome!
[16:20] <madnick> morning :)
[16:21] <ochosi> hi everyone
[16:21] <ochosi> charlie-tca: what voting procedure will we use tonight?
[16:22] <beardygnome> hi charlie-tca
[16:23] <beardygnome> do you have an outline of your plans for the next 3 releases?
[16:24] <charlie-tca> We will use the meeting bot and vote. I will advise you should belong to xubuntu-users team to vote. 
[16:24] <charlie-tca> There's 500 + members of the team, so I don't plan to verify each and every person, unless there is a complaint
[16:25] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: no, My outlines match what Ubuntu decides, most of the time
[16:25] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: you will only have validate the poeple who vote though?
[16:25] <beardygnome> *people
[16:25] <beardygnome> and last time we had a vote, we only had about 8 voters, didn't we?
[16:26] <charlie-tca> Depends on how many vote. If we had 100 people voting, it would take too long to verify each one, wouldn't it?
[16:26] <charlie-tca> I think we had 9 votes last time
[16:27] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: of course, but do you think we'll get a lot voting?
[16:27] <beardygnome> it would be nice if we did, though :-)
[16:30] <charlie-tca> I would love to see 500 votes today
[16:30] <charlie-tca> but, I suspect we will be lucky to see 20
[16:31] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: this hasn't changed much, I still would like to see Xubuntu keep improving.
[16:31] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieKravetz/XubuntuProjectLeadNomination
[16:32] <charlie-tca> I believe we did grow over the last year, and we have some really good contributors that have become active now
[16:33] <charlie-tca> But there should always be room to improve. If we have reached the top, we will have no place to go but down
[16:54] <charlie-tca> knome: I will have you say something about why you should be elected today.
[16:55] <charlie-tca> I am thinking 3-4 line intro and a wiki page to review, then give people a couple of minutes to review it.
[17:07] <knome> charlie-tca, sure, though i think my wikipage serves the intro too
[17:07] <knome> charlie-tca, but yeah, i can say a few words
[17:09] <charlie-tca> It does, but words said in person, as " My wiki page outlines my project plan" always helps.
[17:09] <charlie-tca> It is up to you, either way
[17:10] <knome> sure
[17:10] <knome> no problem there
[17:11] <knome> bbl
[18:54] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in about 5 hours (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[18:55] <micahg> charlie-tca: eh? about 3 hrs
[18:56] <knome> heh
[18:56] <knome> :))
[18:56] <charlie-tca> Is my clock wrong?
[18:56] <charlie-tca> or is it my brain today?
[18:57] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in about 3 hours (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[18:59] <charlie-tca> got it right now? ^ ^
[19:00] <pleia2> yep :)
[19:01]  * knome will be watching a movie
[19:01] <knome> see you later :)
[19:16] <ochosi> charlie-tca: in which channel will we elect? here?
[19:21] <charlie-tca> yes, here
[19:45] <ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks
[19:54] <micahg> mr_pouit: bug 880518, I still have the issue as well, I think it's fixed for new installs, but not for upgrades
[19:59] <mr_pouit> mmh, feel free to reopen it then ;-)
[19:59] <mr_pouit> I thought it was the classic issue ('nautilus' used instead of 'nautilus --no-desktop')
[20:01] <micahg> well, it's not supposed to autostart anymore except in gnome and unity and it still is, so this leads me to believe it's stored somewhere in the session, I haven't tested this theory yet though (maybe I should :))
[20:02] <mr_pouit> if the xfce session was saved while nautilus was running, then indeed, it'll restart each time
[20:03] <mr_pouit> (there's a bug in the session-menu panel plugin, which always save the session regardless of xfce4-session's settings)
[20:03] <mr_pouit> I patched it in oneiric, so it should be fine for new installs
[20:03] <mr_pouit> but if existing installs have a .cache/sessions/* with nautilus in it, I guess it makes your issue
[20:06] <micahg> nope, I don't have that :(
[20:09] <mr_pouit> some other mystery then ;-)
[20:30] <serfus> i am not sure i have understand who is eligible to vote today
[20:32] <Unit193> People in this group https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users (You are)
[20:32] <serfus> right i am :-)
[20:33] <serfus> seems a bit irresponsible to me
[20:33] <serfus> as it is a open group
[20:33] <GridCube> :D an hour and a half?
[20:33] <serfus> and how can one make sure a voter is really on that list
[20:33] <serfus> group i mean
[20:35] <serfus> i mean, i joined only an hour ago and already i can vote?
[20:35] <serfus> though i will not
[20:35]  * serfus will be sleeping anyhow
[20:38] <charlie-tca> serfus: as an all volunteer group, what would be a better to say all who contribute/use Xubuntu can vote?
[20:39] <serfus> it's an open door to all sorts of trolls and unwanted users who can influence the results
[20:40] <serfus> wouldn't it be wise to use the Xubuntu Team on launchpad?
[20:40] <charlie-tca> um, no
[20:41] <charlie-tca> That team is only by approval of the existing Project Lead. 
[20:41] <charlie-tca> What stops him/her from stacking it for themselves?
[20:41] <serfus> i guess one should trust the project lead not to do so
[20:41] <micahg> heh, charlie-tca could be our cabdfl
[20:41] <serfus> i hope he is trust worthy
[20:41] <charlie-tca> +1
[20:42] <charlie-tca> serfus: our guide is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
[20:43] <charlie-tca> I guess if we are important for trolls to influence the results, we will look at making changes to it.
[20:43] <serfus> are you not afraid of what i said before?
[20:43] <charlie-tca> Up to this point, we have not had a problem
[20:43] <charlie-tca> All nine voters last election were honest
[20:43] <serfus> okay, got you
[20:43] <charlie-tca> So were the 12 the election before that
[20:44] <serfus> if it's a small number, i guess people know one another
[20:44] <micahg> charlie-tca: since I'm in Chicago can I vote twice :D
[20:44] <charlie-tca> :)
[21:14] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 45 minutes (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[21:37] <GridCube> :D 25 minutes
[21:37] <ochosi> GridCube: we need a countdown bot (at least when you're not around ;) )
[21:38] <GridCube> :P
[21:38] <GridCube> today's election day :D i like democracy
[21:40] <knome> heh
[21:41] <ochosi> GridCube: yup, this will be fun :)
[21:41] <knome> if i'm elected as the PL, i'll give you a countdown bot!! :P
[21:42] <ochosi> haha
[21:42] <ochosi> very nice
[21:42] <GridCube> :D oh promises!
[21:42] <knome> should i add that to my wikipage? :P
[21:44] <ochosi> knome: yeah, please add an election-candy section ;)
[21:48] <knome> hehe
[21:49] <knome_local> hey peeps. i fired this client up just because my irc was lagging seconds ago
[21:49] <knome_local> so if something happens with my shell, i'll be shouting from here
[21:50] <charlie-tca> Works for me
[21:51] <knome_local> yup, just wanted to tell you so you don't think i'm spawning to get more votes :PP
[21:51] <charlie-tca> Hadn't thought of that one.
[21:52] <charlie-tca> So, we will only see a vote from one name, right?
[21:52] <knome_local> yeah, definitely
[21:52] <knome_local> this is just because my shell might drop any time
[21:52] <charlie-tca> I am not feeding the meeting bot a 500 name voter list, though
[21:52] <knome> hehe
[21:52] <knome> yeah
[21:52] <knome> i was thinking a simple vote for tonight since it's just you and me
[21:52] <knome> +1 for you, -1 for me
[21:53] <knome> if the outcome is positive, you win, negative, i win
[21:53] <knome> you can give 0 too to vote nobody, and we can even check if we got more 0's than votes for either
[21:53] <knome> but that's just technical stuf
[21:53] <knome> +f
[21:54] <GridCube> 6 minutes and counting
[21:55] <charlie-tca> I was going to try that, but I am afraid it will confuse people. I think just call for two votes
[21:55] <ochosi> GridCube: does your countdown take into account that the voting might not be in the beginning of the meeting?
[21:55] <knome> charlie-tca, worksforme too
[21:55] <GridCube> :P
[21:55] <GridCube> ochosi, its for the !starmeeting point 
[21:55] <charlie-tca> I just want it to work this time, without the mess of the last transition
[21:55] <ochosi> GridCube: you know, i'm afraid we might have to replace you with a better countdown bot ;D
[21:56] <knome> charlie-tca, sure, we all want that stuff work :)
[21:57] <charlie-tca> smooth transition might let us get CC approval for the council
[21:57] <ochosi> council would be nice
[21:58] <GridCube> D: but is 3 minutes and counting ochosi !
[21:58] <knome> some beer would also be nice
[21:58] <madnick> GridCube: its 1 minute
[21:58] <pleia2> only worry about a council right now is that it would be made up of half the team :)
[21:58] <madnick> :D
[21:58] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: if you have two votes, how do you stop people voting for both of you?
[21:58] <ochosi> pleia2: haha, good point
[21:58] <knome> beardygnome, no way to stop that, but isn't that the same as voting "0" in the single vote?
[21:58] <charlie-tca> I suppose you can vote for both if you really want to
[21:59] <charlie-tca> We will have to vote until we have a winner
[21:59] <charlie-tca> pleia2: but we are gaining members again.
[21:59] <pleia2> charlie-tca: yes! so maybe next year :)
[21:59] <GridCube> :D
[22:00] <knome> heh, "let's vote again with same people voting the same way"
[22:00] <knome> that'll the infinity
[22:00] <charlie-tca> We just got to keep hoping we build enough up to keep things going
[22:00] <beardygnome> charlie-tca, knome: yes, it is, but i think a single vote would be easier
[22:00] <GridCube> ITS ELECTION MEETING TIME!! \o/
[22:00] <knome> beardygnome, me too
[22:01] <knome> beardygnome, but i'm okay with two votes too
[22:02] <beardygnome> how about everyone just says "charlie" or "knome" when we vote?
[22:02] <knome> beardygnome, the bot can't log that
[22:02] <beardygnome> then we count the number for each?
[22:02] <beardygnome> do we need the bot to log it?
[22:02] <knome> beardygnome, +1/-1 is way easier, and the bot gets the number automatically, no room for human error there :)
[22:02]  * charlie-tca waves at the crowd
[22:02] <beardygnome> it will be in the channel log for all to see
[22:02] <charlie-tca> let's get this meeting started
[22:02] <knome> beardygnome, i think at least that, to make the vote at least somewhat valid
[22:02] <knome> sure!
[22:02] <charlie-tca> #startmeeting Xubuntu
[22:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Sun Oct 23 22:02:59 2011 UTC.  The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[22:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[22:03] <charlie-tca> The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[22:03] <charlie-tca> Reminder:   please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing.   If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait.
[22:04] <GridCube> do we o/ for the bot to count us?
[22:04] <charlie-tca> #topic OLD BUSINESS
[22:04] <pleia2> I can't stay long (have some furniture to pick up) :\
[22:04] <charlie-tca> no, we will all be counted when voting
[22:04] <GridCube> ok
[22:04] <knome> pleia2, meh you
[22:04] <charlie-tca> All old business is carried forward for the next Project Lead to bring forward.
[22:05] <charlie-tca> #topic [22:05] <charlie-tca> #subtopic [22:05] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: I have seen a bug report on 12.04 already, but prefer to ignore it until we at least all the merges and syncs done
[22:06] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: your floor, do you have any updates this early?
[22:06] <knome> (and toolkit uploaded?)
[22:06] <mr_pouit> micahg started to do some syncs (I haven't even looked at precise yet ;-)
[22:06] <charlie-tca> toolchain uploaded already
[22:06] <knome> oh!
[22:06] <charlie-tca> Okay, mr_pouit 
[22:06] <micahg> o/
[22:07] <knome> (i thought it was after uds. sorry for distrupting)
[22:07] <mr_pouit> there have been many bugs filed against oneiric recently too
[22:07] <charlie-tca> yes, the increase in users is showing up rapidly
[22:07] <charlie-tca> micahg: ?
[22:07] <micahg> I just wanted to say that an SRU for blueman is planned by me, just not sure if it'll happen before UDS
[22:07] <charlie-tca> Great!
[22:08] <knome> o/
[22:08] <charlie-tca> That will take out a couple of bugs
[22:08] <mr_pouit> Bug #878682, Bug #877811 and Bug #878069 might also be SRU'able
[22:08] <charlie-tca> knome: ?
[22:08] <knome> can we get a newer version of ristretto in oneiric too? it crashes if you are using thumbnailbar, but i heard that's fixed in 0.1.0
[22:08] <knome> (as SRU) + ..
[22:08] <micahg> mr_pouit: yeah, I can look at those (I know the last one will have to wait until exo makes it into testing/unstable)
[22:09] <mr_pouit> micahg: it's in unstable now ;-)
[22:09]  * GridCube was going to propose we ditch ristretto for gpicviewer
[22:09] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: ristretto should be SRU able, isn't it?
[22:09] <micahg> mr_pouit: oops, meant testing/precise :)
[22:09]  * beardygnome supports GridCube
[22:09] <micahg> charlie-tca: we don't usually SRU major version updates (I think blueman might be an exception since it's all bug fix)
[22:09] <ochosi> GridCube: you should try what's in git now, it really has evolved a lot
[22:10] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: knome: I haven't looked at the diff between 0.0.93 and 0.1.x, but I guess it's too big
[22:10] <GridCube> ochosi, :) will try
[22:10] <knome> GridCube, ristretto's got a lot of enhancements lately, so i'd say let's check that first too, and compare that to gpicviewer
[22:10] <knome> mr_pouit, :(
[22:10] <charlie-tca> blueman we got permission for before release
[22:10] <micahg> ristretto 0.1.0 was a total rewrite IIRC
[22:10] <knome> mostly, yes
[22:10] <knome> can we at least investigate that?
[22:10] <micahg> knome: we can backport it
[22:10] <charlie-tca> Well, if ristretto can not be done, we will at least get the new version in Precise
[22:10] <micahg> charlie-tca: already there ;)
[22:11] <charlie-tca> Okay
[22:11] <micahg> 0.2.0 will be coming after UDS
[22:11] <charlie-tca> Anything else for development?
[22:11] <mr_pouit> if psybsd didn't rewrite ristretto between 0.0.93 and 0.1.0, I can try to make a patch to fix issues
[22:11] <knome> so if possible, let's try to get ristretto 0.1.0 in for oneiric as SRU or backport.
[22:11] <mr_pouit> (but I think he rewrote many things ;-)
[22:11] <micahg> if there's a crash and there's a sensible patch, we can SRU that
[22:12] <charlie-tca> We will at least look at it
[22:12] <knome> thanks. or micahg or mr_pouit can PPA it
[22:12] <knome> .
[22:12] <charlie-tca> anything else?
[22:12] <micahg> knome: let's use backports, if you want to file the bug, I can get a test build up
[22:12] <knome> micahg, i can do that. :)
[22:12] <micahg> knome: against oneiric-backports
[22:13] <knome> thanks
[22:13] <GridCube> o/
[22:13] <charlie-tca> #subtopic [22:13] <charlie-tca> GridCube: ?
[22:13] <GridCube> can i ask something, that bothering me, why do you changed exaile for gmusicbrowser?
[22:13] <GridCube> can't we go back to it?
[22:14] <micahg> exaile uses hal so no :P
[22:14] <knome> can we cover that on "other business" ?
[22:14] <charlie-tca> I have wondered the same thing. It seems like we lost the ability to play cd's in that switch
[22:14] <GridCube> ok
[22:14] <knome> it isn't really team update
[22:14] <GridCube> ..
[22:14] <knome> ..
[22:14] <charlie-tca> correct
[22:14] <micahg> well, there's a branch for de-hal-ing it
[22:15] <micahg> oh, wait, we have parole, don't we?
[22:15] <knome> micahg! behave! :P ..
[22:15] <charlie-tca> as to bugs and testing, we will begin testing Precise the first week of December. Alph1 is due the 1st, and daily testing up to then is spotty
[22:15] <GridCube> :D my new testing interface is ready :D
[22:15] <charlie-tca> #subtopic [22:15] <charlie-tca> Where are we on the website transition?
[22:15] <knome> we're still pending on IS to get the latest plugin version in
[22:15]  * beardygnome thinks it looks good
[22:16] <knome> after that, we need one more plugin/theme update, after that it is all about content (which is already copied over by pleia2)
[22:16] <knome> so we're maybe about 1-3 weeks from going live (realistic estimation)
[22:16] <knome> ..
[22:16] <pleia2> I did a full audit of the old site yesterday and shared notes for what we need to review
[22:16] <charlie-tca> Great! That would be fantastic
[22:16] <pleia2> all the news is pulled over, 26 articles!
[22:16] <pleia2> ..
[22:16] <knome> i look forward to writing as much articles per release!
[22:17] <knome> ..
[22:17] <pleia2> knome: +1
[22:17] <charlie-tca> I haven't seen any reviews yet from our bloggers
[22:17] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: guess you missed http://beardygnome.co.uk/2011/10/22/oneiric-ocelot-arrives/ then
[22:17] <charlie-tca> Artwork and Documentation should be discussed later, I think, as in next meeting
[22:17] <knome> i can write one, but that wouldn't be so positive, since my upgrade miserably failed :(
[22:17] <beardygnome> :-)
[22:18] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: I did
[22:18] <knome> charlie-tca, agreed. nothing happening in those areas now
[22:18] <charlie-tca> I was hoping to get that into the website news, too, which puts it in planet
[22:18] <ochosi> knome: hey! i'm still fixing greybird-gtk3 bugs ;)
[22:18] <beardygnome> i can't say i've publicised it...
[22:18] <knome> ochosi, hehe.. :)
[22:19] <charlie-tca> #topic [22:19] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu is going to move to a 5 year release schedule for LTS releases.
[22:19] <charlie-tca>     We will need to seriously consider Xubuntu's ability to support this plan.
[22:19] <charlie-tca>     Staying with Ubuntu release cycles will mean supporting 12.04 for 5 years. 
[22:19] <charlie-tca> I am not willing to take this up before the election.
[22:20] <charlie-tca> #topic [22:20] <charlie-tca> * The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Governance_.26_Team_Structure
[22:20] <charlie-tca> drumroll please...
[22:20] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: they already do 5 year support, don't they?
[22:20] <charlie-tca> Only for servers
[22:20] <knome> (beardygnome, 3 for desktop)
[22:21] <charlie-tca> They are going to 5 year support for desktops
[22:21] <beardygnome> oh, sorry, hadn't heard that
[22:21] <charlie-tca> #subtopic Nominations for Xubuntu Project Lead
[22:21] <beardygnome> ..
[22:21] <charlie-tca> We have two nominees for this election today
[22:21] <charlie-tca> Myself, and the esteemed knome
[22:22]  * knome bows
[22:22] <charlie-tca> I would like knome to introduce himself and will give a few minutes to him.
[22:22] <charlie-tca> knome: go ahead, sikr
[22:22] <charlie-tca> knome: go ahead, sir
[22:22] <knome> hello everybody!
[22:22] <knome> i'm pasi lallinaho, a geek and a foss enthusiast from finland
[22:23] <knome> i've been working with ubuntu since 2008, also as the xubuntu marketing lead for over a year
[22:23] <knome> in 2009, i founded the shimmer project, via which i've continuously have contributed to xubuntu
[22:23] <knome> you can read more at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XPL - a shortlist of my bigger contributions to ubuntu is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/
[22:24] <knome> thanks ..
[22:24] <charlie-tca> Lest any one decide to vote based on my and knome's interactions. Be aware, we do not see eye to eye often, but I have the greatest respect for knome.
[22:25] <charlie-tca> I think enough of him to make him an IRC op in all of our channels, which gives him the right to throw even myself out.
[22:25] <knome> to be exact, i've never seen charlie-tca in real life, but i do respect him very much too - he is doing an absolute fantastic job on QA and bugs!
[22:25] <pleia2> thanks guys :)
[22:25]  * micahg can vouch for charlie-tca being a real person :)
[22:26] <charlie-tca> lol
[22:26] <knome> me too, i've heard he is real from what i've heard from people i've seen rl too
[22:26] <charlie-tca> If anyone neeeds more time to read knome's wiki pages, please say so
[22:26] <knome> or maybe this is the next truman story??
[22:26] <charlie-tca> I was real last time I looked in the mirror
[22:27] <knome> (one can make even a bot say that!!)
[22:27] <micahg> ubottu: are you real?
[22:27] <knome> just as a sidenote, i've never had problems with charlie-tca in the irc channels so i haven't had to think if i should throw him out :)
[22:28] <charlie-tca> I am Charlie Kravetz. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieKravetz/XubuntuProjectLeadNomination
[22:29] <charlie-tca> I want to thank knome for making this a true election this time. It is always good to have a choice.
[22:29] <GridCube> :)
[22:29] <knome> to be truthful, the ubuntu studio leader ScottL told he wanted to add a testimony for charlie too, but i think he forgot.
[22:30] <charlie-tca> We will hold two votes, you can vote +1 to vote for the person. Only those members of https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/ are allowed to vote.
[22:30] <charlie-tca> If you don't know if you are a member of the team, please ask.
[22:30] <GridCube> I think i am
[22:30] <GridCube> how to know?
[22:30] <knome> GridCube, lp id?
[22:30] <GridCube> gridcube
[22:30] <madnick> GridCube: you are
[22:30] <knome> GridCube, you are a member.
[22:31] <GridCube> :D
[22:31] <dejot> are new group members OK to vote as well?
[22:31] <knome> GridCube, of xubuntu-users, and only xubuntu-users
[22:31] <charlie-tca> GridCube: you are
[22:31] <GridCube> :)
[22:31] <GridCube> ok
[22:31] <charlie-tca> dejot: yes, as long as you are a member
[22:31] <dejot> k, thx
[22:32] <knome> yes, should be no difference. you might have wanted to join the team for voting too :)
[22:32] <ochosi> yeah, to be honest i did that..
[22:32] <charlie-tca> #vote We are voting for knome first
[22:32] <meetingology> Please vote on: We are voting for knome first
[22:32] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[22:32] <charlie-tca> Please vote now
[22:32] <ochosi> +1
[22:32] <meetingology> +1 received from ochosi
[22:32] <charlie-tca> +0
[22:32] <meetingology> +0 received from charlie-tca
[22:32] <knome> can i vote for myself? :)
[22:32] <dejot> +1
[22:32] <meetingology> +1 received from dejot
[22:32] <pleia2> +1
[22:32] <knome> +0
[22:32] <meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
[22:32] <meetingology> +0 received from knome
[22:32] <charlie-tca> yes
[22:32] <nimbus> +1
[22:32] <edii> +1
[22:32] <meetingology> +1 received from nimbus
[22:32] <meetingology> +1 received from edii
[22:32] <GridCube> +0
[22:32] <madnick> +1
[22:32] <meetingology> +0 received from GridCube
[22:32] <beardygnome> =1
[22:32] <meetingology> +1 received from madnick
[22:32] <beardygnome> +1
[22:32] <meetingology> +1 received from beardygnome
[22:33] <JPohlmann> +1
[22:33] <meetingology> +1 received from JPohlmann
[22:33] <knome> oooh :o
[22:33] <mr_pouit> +1
[22:33] <meetingology> +1 received from mr_pouit
[22:33] <charlie-tca> knome: yes, you may vote for yourself. You can also change your vote by voting again
[22:33] <micahg> do we vote only once?
[22:33] <beardygnome> looks like i'm not a member of xubuntu-users though...
[22:33] <knome> charlie-tca, i'll disqualify myself. :)
[22:33] <charlie-tca> You can vote twice, once for each of us
[22:34] <beardygnome> even though i'm in xubuntu-team...
[22:34] <micahg> +0
[22:34] <meetingology> +0 received from micahg
[22:34] <knome> since xubuntu-users is an open group, i'd say anyone active enough in the community that both contestants know him, can vote. charlie-tca, agreed?
[22:34] <GridCube> beardygnome, it autoaccepts you
[22:34] <charlie-tca> yeah, If you are on Xubuntu-team, you are qualified to vote
[22:34] <knome> :)
[22:35] <mr_pouit> beardygnome: if you're in ~xubuntu-team, you're indirectly in ~xubuntu-users
[22:35] <mr_pouit> (unless launchpad is lying to me, or I can't read straight anymore)
[22:35] <charlie-tca> beardygnome: xubuntu-team is always included in xubuntu-users. So is xubuntu-devel
[22:35] <beardygnome> i might be registered under my real name, not my nick
[22:35] <beardygnome> just checking
[22:36] <knome> heh
[22:36] <knome> everybody going to vote has voted?
[22:36] <charlie-tca> Does anyone else wish to vote?
[22:36] <charlie-tca> we give it one minute
[22:36] <knome> dum-di-dum...
[22:37]  * knome renders half-time music
[22:37] <GridCube> tom bombadil songs?
[22:37] <ochosi> :)
[22:37] <knome> you name it, i hum it
[22:37] <charlie-tca> #endvote
[22:37] <meetingology> Voting ended on: We are voting for knome first
[22:37] <meetingology> Votes for:9 Votes against:0 Abstentions:4
[22:37] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:37] <charlie-tca> Okay, Now we will vote on charlie-tca. Please vote if you are a member of the xubuntu-users team.
[22:38] <charlie-tca> #vote we now vote for charlie-tca 
[22:38] <meetingology> Please vote on: we now vote for charlie-tca
[22:38] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[22:38] <GridCube> :D
[22:38] <GridCube> +1
[22:38] <meetingology> +1 received from GridCube
[22:38] <charlie-tca> +0
[22:38] <meetingology> +0 received from charlie-tca
[22:38] <micahg> +1
[22:38] <meetingology> +1 received from micahg
[22:38] <GridCube> i nominated you so :P
[22:38] <dejot> +0
[22:38] <meetingology> +0 received from dejot
[22:38] <beardygnome> +0
[22:38] <meetingology> +0 received from beardygnome
[22:38] <ochosi> +0
[22:38] <meetingology> +0 received from ochosi
[22:38] <pleia2> +0
[22:38] <meetingology> +0 received from pleia2
[22:38] <knome> +0.5
[22:38] <meetingology> +0.5 received from knome
[22:38] <madnick> 0
[22:38] <meetingology> 0 received from madnick
[22:39] <JPohlmann> +0
[22:39] <meetingology> +0 received from JPohlmann
[22:39] <mr_pouit> uh, does +0.5 work?
[22:39] <GridCube> it will count it XD
[22:39] <knome> mr_pouit, if it does, i'll file a bug.
[22:39] <dejot> and render the election invalid!
[22:39] <knome> haha
[22:39] <GridCube> jaja
[22:39] <mr_pouit> +0 (actually +0.5, but then knome would file 2 bugs)
[22:39] <meetingology> +0 (actually +0.5, but then knome would file 2 bugs) received from mr_pouit
[22:39] <mr_pouit> >.<
[22:39] <mr_pouit> +0
[22:39] <meetingology> +0 received from mr_pouit
[22:39] <charlie-tca> no it won't, since it may be for the boards to show a positive vote 
[22:39] <knome> heh, nicely done...
[22:40] <knome> let's see what the bot says in a sec
[22:40] <charlie-tca> Okay, let's give it one more minute
[22:40] <nimbus> +0
[22:40] <meetingology> +0 received from nimbus
[22:40]  * knome hums some half-time music again
[22:41] <charlie-tca> Since this is the same bot used in #ubuntu-meeting, it may well allow half votes as a vote of confidence
[22:41] <charlie-tca> #endvote
[22:41] <meetingology> Voting ended on: we now vote for charlie-tca
[22:41] <meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:10
[22:41] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:41] <charlie-tca> Super.
[22:41] <knome> yeah, it should count +0* as +0 :)
[22:41] <charlie-tca> Congratulations, knome 
[22:41] <knome> thanks everybody!
[22:41] <pleia2> charlie-tca: thank you for your work, you are great :)
[22:42] <GridCube> :D
[22:42] <charlie-tca> I will thank everyone here for participating in this meeting and very important election.
[22:42] <knome> yes, thanks
[22:42] <GridCube> ALL SALUTE THE NEW PROJECT LEADER!
[22:42] <GridCube> :D
[22:42] <knome> charlie-tca, if you will, i'll be glad to see you as the QA+bugs leader in the future too :)
[22:42] <GridCube> congratulations mister knome :D
[22:42] <knome> thank you sir
[22:42] <charlie-tca> I know you will support the new Project Leader, and insure this great distribution continues to grow
[22:43] <GridCube> :D charlie-tca for all i can tell you did a great job
[22:43] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: thank you for all your hard work, my vote for  knome was not a vote against you, if that makes sense?
[22:43] <micahg> beardygnome: you could've voted for both :)
[22:43] <ochosi> GridCube: now you have to call him "the esteemed knome" ;)
[22:43] <charlie-tca> #chair knome
[22:43] <meetingology> Current chairs: charlie-tca knome
[22:43] <charlie-tca> I know. I fully appreciate the value of change in leadership
[22:44] <GridCube> the greatly steemed mister knome the great
[22:44] <knome> charlie-tca, if you want, i can chair the rest of the meeting, or you can do it as well
[22:44] <GridCube> :P
[22:44] <mr_pouit> two chairs, soon we'll have a bench \o/
[22:44]  * mr_pouit hides
[22:44] <ochosi> haha
[22:44] <knome> the steamed knome
[22:44] <beardygnome> micahg: i know, but i didn't want to risk tying the votes
[22:44] <charlie-tca> That's why I gave you the chair
[22:44]  * knome is big enough to be a couch
[22:44] <micahg> beardygnome: as you can see, that wasn't a problem :)
[22:44] <charlie-tca> knome: go ahead
[22:44] <knome> let me find the right tab in FF :)
[22:44] <knome> so, let's move on to the next subject
[22:45] <charlie-tca> besides, I am tired of saying I will wait for the new project leader
[22:45] <knome> #topic [22:45] <GridCube> XD
[22:45] <knome> Ubuntu goes 5-year schedule for LTS
[22:45] <ochosi> charlie-tca: thanks for all your work charlie! i really hope you'll continue with QA and accessibility!
[22:45] <knome> JPohlmann, ping
[22:45] <charlie-tca> Yes, I plan to be around, but not until after UDS
[22:46] <charlie-tca> knome: according to the message on the 5 year plan, it will be discussed at UDS, also
[22:46] <micahg> knome: shouldn't that be a discussion or was that summary judgment?
[22:46] <JPohlmann> The LTS schedule is something I thought it might be worth throwing in my opinion
[22:46] <knome> JPohlmann had something to say so i'll let him :)
[22:47] <micahg> knome: nevermind...
[22:47] <JPohlmann> Maintaining an Xfce release as old as five years would be painful
[22:47] <JPohlmann> As upstream developers we only really maintain the latest stable release in parallel to developing the next one
[22:47] <JPohlmann> The cycle is about two years
[22:48] <JPohlmann> So five years means you'd have to come up with fixes on your own, upstream doesn't have the manpower to maintain 3 versions in parallel
[22:48] <JPohlmann> ..
[22:48] <knome> yes, 5 years is a long time
[22:49] <beardygnome> o/
[22:49] <knome> beardygnome, go ahead
[22:49] <beardygnome> we can chose not to do 5 year support, right?
[22:49] <knome> i don't know. does somebody know that yet?
[22:50] <knome> in my opinion, xubuntu doesn't necessarily need LTS's
[22:50] <micahg> main will be supported for 5 yrs regardless, this is specific to whether or not we, as Xubuntu, want to extend that to our packages as well
[22:50] <ochosi> o/
[22:50] <knome> we have been able to produce a stable system every release
[22:50] <knome> ochosi, go ahead
[22:50] <charlie-tca> o/
[22:50] <knome> charlie-tca, feel free to go after ochosi's finished :)
[22:50] <JPohlmann> knome: Well, it is being used in large PC pools at universities, so having an LTS might be useful
[22:50]  * micahg needs to learn to raise his hand...
[22:51] <ochosi> as jannis said, xfce has a different length of cycles. furthermore: afaik ubuntu wants to transition to gtk3 with 12.04 which is rather bad for us
[22:51] <micahg> o/
[22:51] <ochosi> so all in all i think the next lts is not really ideal for xubuntu
[22:51] <knome> JPohlmann, i understand, but since you can't upgrade from LTS to anything else than next normal release or the LTS 5 years ago, that kind of fails
[22:51] <mr_pouit> well, I think we haven't even supported normal 3y LTS until now (I don't think I've even patched something in 10.04 -- Xfce 4.6 -- since its release)
[22:51] <ochosi> ..
[22:52] <micahg> knome: no, upgrades will still be every 2 years AFAICT for LTS -> LTS
[22:52] <knome> (everybody just go free - otherwise this takes too long)
[22:52] <charlie-tca> As a derivative of Ubuntu, we are not required to follow the Ubuntu release schedule. 
[22:52] <knome> micahg, if LTS is every 5 years, isn't LTS->LTS five years waiting?
[22:52] <charlie-tca> A point to keep in mind is that Xubuntu is not officially designated "LTS"
[22:52] <micahg> knome: no, just that there's 6yrs of support per release
[22:52] <micahg> oops
[22:52] <GridCube> o/
[22:52] <micahg> 5 yrs, not 6
[22:52] <knome> if we could work with xfce more closely, the ideal situation would be to release an LTS everytime a new xfce version is out+polished
[22:53] <ochosi> GridCube: think you don't have to raise your "hand" anymore ;)
[22:53] <GridCube> ok
[22:53] <charlie-tca> We have supported LTS releases as a group, not as a requirement
[22:53] <GridCube> for as far as i know there will be two concurrent lts
[22:53] <knome> GridCube, yep, let's go free on this subject
[22:53] <charlie-tca> However, moving outside the Ubuntu 18 month cycles does create other issues
[22:53] <beardygnome> +1 for knome's idea
[22:53] <micahg> knome: there's no upstream help for GNOME/KDE to maintain an LTS release, so I don't see why we'd need help from Xfce either
[22:54] <knome> micahg, yes, but you can only upgrade to next normal version or LTS from LTS
[22:54] <micahg> GridCube: there will be 3 now :)
[22:54] <charlie-tca> Gnome and KDE officially support LTS releases, which is why they are always included in the .? releases
[22:54] <GridCube> yes, but what i mean is
[22:54] <charlie-tca> We are not included in them
[22:54] <GridCube> there will be two updates to lts
[22:54] <knome> micahg, we don't necessarily need "xfce help", but help isn't bad
[22:54] <micahg> knome: right, so from 12.04 you can upgrade to 12.10 or 14.04
[22:54] <knome> micahg, yes
[22:54] <GridCube> lts>lts1>lts2
[22:54] <GridCube> lts>(lts1,lts2)
[22:54] <knome> micahg, that's why it's either you upgrade to normal release, or are stuck waiting 5 for the next lts
[22:55] <knome> micahg, which is bad
[22:55] <knome> my vision is:
[22:55] <micahg> knome: no, it's still 2 yrs for the next LTS upgrade
[22:55] <knome> oh, right
[22:55] <knome> sorry
[22:55] <knome> i mixed things up
[22:55] <GridCube> yes that, so not 5 years from lts > lts
[22:55] <micahg> so I think we're good WRT upstream Xfce
[22:55] <charlie-tca> A point to keep in mind, Dapper (Xubuntu 6.06) would have been supported until this year on a 5 year LTS
[22:55] <knome> i think we are good anyway
[22:56] <GridCube> 5 yeas if you do lts > lts2 but 2 for lts > lts1
[22:56] <ochosi> charlie-tca: yeah, imagining that makes the taste of a 5year lts a bit bitter
[22:56] <GridCube> thats how i undestand it
[22:56] <micahg> I think we have the option to stay with 3yrs instead of 5 as well
[22:56] <beardygnome> we don't have a server release, do we?
[22:56] <JPohlmann> Basically, if Xfce has released 4.6, 4.8 and is working towards 4.10, Xubuntu is entirely on its own with regards to 4.6. Upstream doesn't even check or work on fixes; no bugfix releases for the previous last stable release are made either. Maintaining that as an LTS would be tough, I guess.
[22:56] <knome> can we just say we support the "LTS" as long as the xfce version in it supported?
[22:56] <knome> people agree on that?
[22:57] <charlie-tca> Yes, and we will have 4.6 for another 18 months after 12.04 releases
[22:57] <GridCube> i do, but i don0t know if thats a fair thing to say to users
[22:57] <knome> well, as long as the xfce version in it is the next-to-newest
[22:57] <micahg> knome: well, no, that would be 2 yrs, and the LTS -> LTS upgrade isn't prompted until LTS+1.1
[22:57] <charlie-tca> I would suggest not using "LTS" for any Xubuntu release
[22:57] <mr_pouit> +1 with charlie-tca 
[22:57] <GridCube> +1
[22:57] <JPohlmann> Yep, +1
[22:57] <beardygnome> _1
[22:57] <ochosi> +1
[22:57] <knome> charlie-tca, i kind of agree. as i said, we've been able to deliver stable releases from release to release
[22:57] <beardygnome> +1
[22:58] <micahg> so, the choices are 18m (no LTS), 3yrs, 5yr
[22:58] <knome> in that case
[22:58] <GridCube> knome, :p do a vote
[22:58] <charlie-tca> #agreed do not use "LTS" for any Xubuntu release
[22:58] <micahg> wait
[22:58] <knome> yeah, wait :)
[22:58] <micahg> do we not intend to support LTS -> LTS upgrades?
[22:58] <knome> that was my question too
[22:58] <knome> and the other question
[22:59] <charlie-tca> so, you plan to support an upgrade from 4.6 to 4.??? at 5 years?
[22:59] <knome> can we set update-manager to inform about new "normal" releases instead of just LTS by default?
[22:59] <beardygnome> how difficult is it to support lts -> lts upgrades?
[22:59] <micahg> charlie-tca: no, 2 yr upgrades, 4.6 -> 4.10, 4.10 -> 5.2 (?)
[22:59] <charlie-tca> supporting an upgrade every two years is NOT supporting LTS to LTS upgrades
[22:59] <ochosi> micahg: i think 4.12 comes after 4.10
[22:59] <GridCube> if you are no using lts it will inform you anyway doenst it? knome 
[22:59] <micahg> charlie-tca: yes, it is :)
[22:59] <charlie-tca> It has to be upgraded the entire life time
[23:00] <knome> GridCube, yes, but if you are
[23:00] <GridCube> but we will be not
[23:00] <micahg> charlie-tca: no, we can say the supported upgrade path for xubuntu is through the intermediate LTSs
[23:00] <charlie-tca> knome: yes, that normal switch is simple to set
[23:00] <knome> charlie-tca, great. then i'd say let's go for that. do you know if we also can hide the LTS thing completely?
[23:01] <mr_pouit> again, to handle upgrade paths from 4.x to 4.x+4 (e.g. 4.6 to 4.10), we'll (probably) be alone
[23:01] <knome> charlie-tca, eg. not support any upgrades over more than one release
[23:01] <beardygnome> knome: i don't think that's a good idea
[23:01] <charlie-tca> I don't know for sure, but if the user decides to change the config file, they become "on their own"
[23:01] <micahg> knome: I think that will hurt us, not everyone is comfortable upgrading every 6 months
[23:01] <ochosi> sorry people, it's getting a bit late for me and i have to work tomorrow morning. i'll join the discussion/s again in the next meeting
[23:01] <knome> mmh.
[23:01] <knome> ochosi, thanks for joining us anyway though
[23:02] <knome> ochosi, i'm sure this discussion continues through to the next meeting as well
[23:02] <beardygnome> knome: i think we need to take this to the ml
[23:02] <ochosi> np, see you around (and i'll read the backlog)
[23:02] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: and that is what we are looking at for 10.04, already
[23:02] <micahg> I think 3 yrs support isn't unreasonable and makes for a viable alternative to other OSs
[23:02] <beardygnome> we are going around in circles here
[23:02] <knome> mr_pouit, can you give some insight which is the easiest for you?
[23:02] <beardygnome> +1 
[23:02] <charlie-tca> Normal upgrades are 18 month cycles
[23:02] <beardygnome> to micahg
[23:02] <mr_pouit> charlie-tca: if 12.04 only ships 4.8, that'll be fine ;-)
[23:02] <charlie-tca> but the upgrade must always be by step to each release.
[23:03] <micahg> charlie-tca: no, normal support is 18mo, upgrades are every 6 and if you upgrade every 18, you can to run 3 upgrades to be up to date
[23:03] <micahg> s/can/have to/
[23:03] <knome> can we give the floor to mr_pouit for a sec?
[23:03] <micahg> mr_pouit: right, we still have that wildcard :)
[23:03] <knome> i'd like to hear his thoughts on this, because he is the one doing the work, it seems
[23:03] <knome> (and micahg)
[23:05] <knome> mr_pouit, fell asleep?
[23:05] <mr_pouit> I'm not that happy to support 3 (not to say 5) years old releases, but if people think we can do it, we could try
[23:05] <knome> mr_pouit, what is your #1 suggestion
[23:05] <micahg> mr_pouit: 3 is the end, most users would be on it only about 2.5 yrs
[23:05] <mr_pouit> but right now, debian + xubuntu dev team = 3 people, just to remin that
[23:05] <mr_pouit> *remind
[23:06] <micahg> mr_pouit: what does Debian do about stable?
[23:06] <micahg> keep in mind Debian's support cycle is ~3 yrs for their releases
[23:06] <knome> (i'll be right back, need to run to the gentlemen's)
[23:06] <mr_pouit> only high impact fixes/more or less nothing most of the time
[23:06] <micahg> mr_pouit: I see no problem with us doing the same
[23:06] <mr_pouit> for Xfce 4.4, users got 4.6 in -backports
[23:07] <beardygnome> this might be a step too far, but could we switch our base?
[23:07] <micahg> ooh, that's nice :), I'm not sure I'd want to do that in Ubuntu though
[23:07] <mr_pouit> micahg: if we have longer support cycles than debian, we'll have fun delta with maintainer scripts & co, I'd like to avoid that ;-)
[23:07] <mr_pouit> the current scheme is nice for that
[23:08] <knome> is anybody going to UDS to discuss this?
[23:08] <micahg> mr_pouit: right, so I'd like to keep us basically in sync with Debian which is basically 2 years between releases (like our LTS->LTS)
[23:08] <JPohlmann> Time for me to hit the sack; bye people
[23:08] <micahg> thanks JPohlmann
[23:08] <mr_pouit> micahg: yes
[23:08] <charlie-tca> yes, knome 
[23:08] <knome> night JPohlmann, and thanks for the valuable input
[23:08] <charlie-tca> I will be there
[23:08] <beardygnome> would a rolling release cycle be better or worse?
[23:08] <charlie-tca> worse, if Ubuntu does not support it
[23:09] <micahg> mr_pouit: that's why I figured that it wouldn't be much of a hit for us to keep the 3yr support for the LTS, which is the LTS->LTS upgrade (basically the same as Debian stable + 1yr of oldstable)
[23:09] <knome> charlie-tca, can you hear what people have to say about this, and do a quick report on what our choices worth considering are?
[23:09] <charlie-tca> yup
[23:09] <knome> charlie-tca, thanks
[23:09] <knome> #action charlie-tca to hear about the 5-year release schedule in UDS and report about it
[23:09] <charlie-tca> which is why I tried to say "this will be discussed at UDS before the final decision is made"
[23:09] <meetingology> ACTION: charlie-tca to hear about the 5-year release schedule in UDS and report about it
[23:10] <knome> i think it was good to hear what people think about it now
[23:10] <knome> so you can maybe tell some canonical/ubuntu people what we have been thinking about it
[23:10] <micahg> mr_pouit: but you handled the last LTS->LTS upgrade, if you think it's going to be too crazy to keep doing such a thing (just 2 yrs, i.e. a single LTS), then I respect your opinion on the matter, I'd just wondering how it differs from Debian stable -> stable transitions
[23:10] <knome> not that i keep high hopes that they'll run for us shouting they will help..
[23:11] <knome> micahg, i think it really is a madhouse to handle all those upgrades
[23:11] <knome> listening to mr_pouit's comments here and there
[23:11] <micahg> knome: Debian has to support it anyways if we stay in sync with the LTS and Debian stable, what extra work is thre
[23:11] <mr_pouit> micahg: no, we agree on that, I think it's fine as long as we have upgrades such as 4.6 -> 4.8 (we still have that in maintainer scripts)
[23:11] <mr_pouit> (with 4.6 -> 4.10, maybe we'll start having some nightmares at night ;-)
[23:12] <micahg> well, will Debian go to 4.10?  If not, I"m happy to stick with 4.8 for the LTS
[23:12] <knome> mr_pouit, so, are you saying we can keep on supporting lts1 -> lts2 releases, but not lts1 -> lts3 ?
[23:12] <mr_pouit> so the current scheme for LTS releases (I think it's 3y) seems to be fine
[23:13] <knome> okay
[23:13] <charlie-tca> So, supporting LTS at two to three years already means we are behind. If Xfce 4.10 comes out, they no longer support 4.8, which we will have in 12.04?
[23:13] <mr_pouit> (at least for upgrades)
[23:13] <GridCube> knome, that would be my suggesting but i know nothing about this
[23:13] <knome> GridCube, that's why i'm asking mr_pouit ;)
[23:13] <knome> GridCube, because i don't know either...
[23:13] <mr_pouit> (we probably need to do more SRUs if we want really to call that a LTS though :p)
[23:13] <knome> if we drop the "LTS" name
[23:13] <GridCube> we should keep our current lts program, and review this on 2020
[23:14] <GridCube> :P
[23:14] <micahg> mr_pouit: well, if upstream is bug fix only, we can ask for a microrelease exception
[23:14] <knome> and just call the "LTS->LTS" upgrades "long timeframe updates" or something
[23:14] <beardygnome> i think we needs some form of lts release
[23:14] <mr_pouit> micahg: for debian, it depends on the freeze date, but I think it'll be 4.8 if the freeze is in 6 months
[23:14] <GridCube> or LXS, long xubuntu support
[23:14] <knome> mr_pouit, does that sound feasible?
[23:14] <micahg> mr_pouit: I saw rumblings about June...
[23:15] <micahg> although, 4.10 is supposed to be a polished release, so meh
[23:16] <knome> i'd say let's end the discussion for today and get back to it after UDS, when we have some more information about it all
[23:16] <knome> anybody has something REALLY important about this?
[23:17] <GridCube> ..
[23:18] <knome> #subtopic [23:18] <knome> i will take one-week (or less) break from FOSS in the following two weeks
[23:18] <knome> but i'll be back before UDS ends
[23:18] <GridCube> :)
[23:18] <micahg> so, is charlie-tca representing Xubuntu at UDS then?
[23:19] <knome> this is to keep my interest in FOSS growing in the future as well, as well as get some commercial work done, and moreover, to spend time with family and friends
[23:19] <charlie-tca> Yes, I will represent Xubuntu this time around.
[23:19] <knome> yes, i give charlie-tca the full rights to represent xubuntu at UDS
[23:19] <charlie-tca> Unless micahg wants to?
[23:19] <knome> i wasn't going to attend this time anyway (and i couldn't even if i wanted)
[23:20]  * micahg will probably be testing Firefox updates at UDS :-/
[23:21] <knome> right. charlie-tca and micahg, feel free to represent xubuntu wherever you go.
[23:21]  * micahg wonders if he can keep all these hats on his head
[23:21] <knome> just a quick announcement:
[23:22] <knome> i've briefly talked with the ubuntu studio devs about cooperating in getting something like edubuntu has in installation time - "choose your set of applications"
[23:22] <GridCube> :D
[23:22] <knome> these sets for xubuntu could be something like "only core xfce", "all accessibility packages", "full" etc.
[23:22] <micahg> AFAIK, we don't have an installer dev...
[23:23] <knome> we don't but ubuntu studio does
[23:23] <knome> cooperation means they'll do the work and we'll pick the fruits
[23:23] <knome> not really, but i'd like to investigate this possibility
[23:24]  * micahg is all for collaboration
[23:24] <knome> yeah, we should cooperate and collaborate more with US devs, especially as they are moving to xfce now too
[23:24] <knome> anything else?
[23:24] <GridCube> :) and ubuntustudio wants to use xfce so we can help them there
[23:25] <GridCube> knome, this is when we speak freely?
[23:25] <holstein> we look forward to growing and helping you guys :)
[23:25] <knome> yes, feel free to
[23:25] <holstein> we = ubuntustudio team
[23:25] <knome> if nothing arises, i'll close the meeting
[23:25] <micahg> o/
[23:25] <GridCube> ok this is my list of things i've come whit
[23:25] <GridCube> feel free to not pay attentio to them now
[23:25] <knome> (any outstanding and not-discussed things in the agenda will be discussed in the next meeting)
[23:25] <GridCube> keyboard indicator for non-led'd keyboards
[23:25] <GridCube> new set of backgrounds 
[23:25] <GridCube> gpicviewer by default image viewer
[23:25] <GridCube> darker theme
[23:25] <GridCube> use places for the pseudo-dock
[23:25] <GridCube> no autologin option on alternate
[23:25] <GridCube> 	no way to add it later whitout manually editing the .conf file
[23:26] <GridCube> bind the start menu to the meta-key
[23:26] <GridCube> why gmusicbrowser? going back to exaile is an option?
[23:26] <GridCube> deluge instead of transmission?
[23:26] <GridCube> drag-n-drop from thunar to xfburn doesnt work, "its not a feature" was said to me on #xfce
[23:26] <GridCube> what about talking to lubuntu people and using their package manager?
[23:26] <knome> GridCube, can you create a blueprint, or at least wikipage for all the application things before we go to them?
[23:26]  * micahg could answer a few of those now
[23:27] <knome> GridCube, a short comparison/reasoning on why to change etc.
[23:27] <knome> GridCube, one wikipage is fine too :P
[23:27] <knome> micahg, go ahead
[23:27] <micahg> gmusicbrowser only replaced the player, we still have parole seeded
[23:27]  * beardygnome supports keyboard indicator, gpicview and return to exaile
[23:27] <micahg> drag-n-drop from thunar to xfburn would be feature work upstream
[23:28] <knome> GridCube, xfburn ^ report a wishlist bug upstream
[23:28] <mr_pouit> (sorry, I really need to sleep, I'll read the backlog, good night)
[23:28] <GridCube> :) will do
[23:28] <GridCube> (when i learn how)
[23:29] <knome> night mr_pouit, and thanks!
[23:29] <micahg> Software Center is gaining access to different types of repos (including paid), if the lubuntu manager will have these features, then it's worth a look, otherwise, I don't know about switching unless software center is broke in Xubuntu (in which case we can probably get that fixed)
[23:29] <knome> i really like synaptic
[23:29] <micahg> GridCube: but feel free to make a list, we can hash it out later
[23:29] <micahg> knome: it's still in the repos :)
[23:29] <GridCube> i like synaptic too, but is not very userfriendly
[23:29] <knome> while that might not be as clean as software center, it is still quite good
[23:29]  * beardygnome prefers synaptic too
[23:29] <GridCube> ok ill add it to my wiki page
[23:30] <knome> micahg, i think we even ship it by default?
[23:30] <knome> GridCube, thanks
[23:30] <micahg> knome: I don't think we do anymore..
[23:30] <micahg> oh, we do still :)
[23:30] <beardygnome> ubuntu dropped it, iirc
[23:30] <micahg> right
[23:30] <knome> we didn't drop :)
[23:30] <knome> micahg, did you have something else?
[23:30] <GridCube> we didnt
[23:30] <micahg> knome: yes, thansk
[23:31] <micahg> Firefox 8 coming to Stable releases Nov 8
[23:31] <micahg> oops
[23:31] <micahg> To natty/oneiric :)
[23:31] <micahg> and thunderbird 8 in oneiric
[23:32] <knome> nice
[23:32] <micahg> final builds can be tested at ppa:ubuntu-mozilla-security/ppa, beta builds at ppa:mozillatean/firefox-next and ppa:mozillateam/thunderbird-next
[23:32] <micahg> final builds won't be up until some time during UDS
[23:32] <knome> when is the first SRU
[23:33] <micahg> knome: can you clarify please?
[23:33] <knome> micahg, SRU for oneiric?
[23:33] <micahg> Firefox/Thunderbird?
[23:33] <knome> no, generally
[23:33] <knome> and will the FF/TB  updates make it
[23:33] <micahg> there are no point releases scheduled
[23:33] <micahg> it's as you go
[23:33] <knome> okay
[23:34] <micahg> these are security updates, so hopefully on release day, or as soon as I get them tested
[23:34] <knome> so we'll have those updates in by the first half of november for sure?
[23:34] <micahg> yeah, barring upstream hiccups
[23:34] <knome> mm-hmm
[23:34] <knome> if you need any help with that, feel free to ask this channel
[23:35] <knome> others, please help micahg if you can
[23:35] <micahg> well, beta testing/bug reporting is appreciated
[23:35] <micahg> final builds as well, but by that point, there's little we can do
[23:36] <knome> mm-hmm
[23:36] <knome> okay, is there anything else, or shall i end the meeting?
[23:36] <micahg> ..
[23:36] <knome> okay, we're done.
[23:37] <knome> thanks for attending!
[23:37] <knome> #endmeeting
[23:37] <meetingology> Meeting ended Sun Oct 23 23:37:03 2011 UTC.  
[23:37] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-10-23-22.02.moin.txt
[23:37] <micahg> thanks knome and congrats
[23:37] <knome> thanks!
[23:37] <GridCube> oh i was doing the wiki
[23:37] <GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/ProposedChanges
[23:37] <micahg> beardygnome: your oneiric release blog post suggests I give you this URL: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Update_Manager_doesn.27t_prompt_for_security_updates
[23:37] <knome> GridCube, well, normal development discussion can continue :)
[23:38] <GridCube> :P i have to go now tho
[23:38] <knome> okay, see you GridCube 
[23:38] <GridCube> :D we talk later
[23:39] <beardygnome> micahg: thanks, i've seen the bug report about it.  not sure if i agree or not...
[23:41] <micahg> beardygnome: well, if you think of something we've missed, please let us know
[23:41]  * micahg said that with his security team hat on
[23:42] <beardygnome> micahg: i agree with all of the reasons behind the decision, it's just going to take some getting used it
[23:42] <beardygnome> but i must admit, i don't really  think twice about entering my password whenever i'm asked for it....
[23:43] <knome> if somebody is willing to set up the minutes in the wiki today, feel free to do so
[23:43] <knome> if they are not up by tomorrow, i'll set them up myself
[23:43] <knome> need to go to sleep now
[23:43] <beardygnome> likewise
[23:43] <beardygnome> congratulations to knome
[23:43] <beardygnome> good night all
[23:44] <knome> one of the things i'm focusing on the FOSS break is being more with my wife, and it includes being at the bedroom more at the same time as her, even if we both just slept
[23:44] <knome> thanks everybody
[23:44] <knome> we rock!
[23:45] <micahg> knome: thanks knome, family is important
[23:46] <knome> charlie-tca, let's look at the LP stuff tomorrow when you get online
[23:46] <charlie-tca> fine, but I don't have a checklist of everything
[23:46] <knome> me neither
[23:46] <charlie-tca> A lot of it is going to happen as we find it
[23:47] <knome> yeah