=== micahg_ is now known as micahg [15:11] knome: good luck for the vote today [15:11] is there anywhere where you and charlie have outlined your plans for the next 3 releases? [15:11] beardygnome, thanks :) [15:11] i have, in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XPL [15:12] thanks [15:40] good morning :) [15:41] ning [16:16] Good morning [16:16] :D [16:16] good morning [16:16] evening [16:16] morning [16:17] oh hai pleia2 :) [16:17] g'day knome! [16:20] morning :) [16:21] hi everyone [16:21] charlie-tca: what voting procedure will we use tonight? [16:22] hi charlie-tca [16:23] do you have an outline of your plans for the next 3 releases? [16:24] We will use the meeting bot and vote. I will advise you should belong to xubuntu-users team to vote. [16:24] There's 500 + members of the team, so I don't plan to verify each and every person, unless there is a complaint [16:25] beardygnome: no, My outlines match what Ubuntu decides, most of the time [16:25] charlie-tca: you will only have validate the poeple who vote though? [16:25] *people [16:25] and last time we had a vote, we only had about 8 voters, didn't we? [16:26] Depends on how many vote. If we had 100 people voting, it would take too long to verify each one, wouldn't it? [16:26] I think we had 9 votes last time [16:27] charlie-tca: of course, but do you think we'll get a lot voting? [16:27] it would be nice if we did, though :-) [16:30] I would love to see 500 votes today [16:30] but, I suspect we will be lucky to see 20 [16:31] beardygnome: this hasn't changed much, I still would like to see Xubuntu keep improving. [16:31] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieKravetz/XubuntuProjectLeadNomination [16:32] I believe we did grow over the last year, and we have some really good contributors that have become active now [16:33] But there should always be room to improve. If we have reached the top, we will have no place to go but down [16:54] knome: I will have you say something about why you should be elected today. [16:55] I am thinking 3-4 line intro and a wiki page to review, then give people a couple of minutes to review it. [17:07] charlie-tca, sure, though i think my wikipage serves the intro too [17:07] charlie-tca, but yeah, i can say a few words [17:09] It does, but words said in person, as " My wiki page outlines my project plan" always helps. [17:09] It is up to you, either way [17:10] sure [17:10] no problem there [17:11] bbl [18:54] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in about 5 hours (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [18:55] charlie-tca: eh? about 3 hrs [18:56] heh [18:56] :)) [18:56] Is my clock wrong? [18:56] or is it my brain today? [18:57] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in about 3 hours (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [18:59] got it right now? ^ ^ [19:00] yep :) [19:01] * knome will be watching a movie [19:01] see you later :) [19:16] charlie-tca: in which channel will we elect? here? [19:21] yes, here [19:45] charlie-tca: thanks [19:54] mr_pouit: bug 880518, I still have the issue as well, I think it's fixed for new installs, but not for upgrades [19:54] Launchpad bug 880518 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Xfce desktop - Nautilus takes over" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/880518 [19:59] mmh, feel free to reopen it then ;-) [19:59] I thought it was the classic issue ('nautilus' used instead of 'nautilus --no-desktop') [20:01] well, it's not supposed to autostart anymore except in gnome and unity and it still is, so this leads me to believe it's stored somewhere in the session, I haven't tested this theory yet though (maybe I should :)) [20:02] if the xfce session was saved while nautilus was running, then indeed, it'll restart each time [20:03] (there's a bug in the session-menu panel plugin, which always save the session regardless of xfce4-session's settings) [20:03] I patched it in oneiric, so it should be fine for new installs [20:03] but if existing installs have a .cache/sessions/* with nautilus in it, I guess it makes your issue [20:06] nope, I don't have that :( [20:09] some other mystery then ;-) [20:30] i am not sure i have understand who is eligible to vote today [20:32] People in this group https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users (You are) [20:32] right i am :-) [20:33] seems a bit irresponsible to me [20:33] as it is a open group [20:33] :D an hour and a half? [20:33] and how can one make sure a voter is really on that list [20:33] group i mean [20:35] i mean, i joined only an hour ago and already i can vote? [20:35] though i will not [20:35] * serfus will be sleeping anyhow [20:38] serfus: as an all volunteer group, what would be a better to say all who contribute/use Xubuntu can vote? [20:39] it's an open door to all sorts of trolls and unwanted users who can influence the results [20:40] wouldn't it be wise to use the Xubuntu Team on launchpad? [20:40] um, no [20:41] That team is only by approval of the existing Project Lead. [20:41] What stops him/her from stacking it for themselves? [20:41] i guess one should trust the project lead not to do so [20:41] heh, charlie-tca could be our cabdfl [20:41] i hope he is trust worthy [20:41] +1 [20:42] serfus: our guide is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument [20:43] I guess if we are important for trolls to influence the results, we will look at making changes to it. [20:43] are you not afraid of what i said before? [20:43] Up to this point, we have not had a problem [20:43] All nine voters last election were honest [20:43] okay, got you [20:43] So were the 12 the election before that [20:44] if it's a small number, i guess people know one another [20:44] charlie-tca: since I'm in Chicago can I vote twice :D [20:44] :) [21:14] Xubuntu community meeting in #xubuntu-devel in 45 minutes (22:00 UTC). Everyone is invited to attend. Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [21:37] :D 25 minutes [21:37] GridCube: we need a countdown bot (at least when you're not around ;) ) [21:38] :P [21:38] today's election day :D i like democracy [21:40] heh [21:41] GridCube: yup, this will be fun :) [21:41] if i'm elected as the PL, i'll give you a countdown bot!! :P [21:42] haha [21:42] very nice [21:42] :D oh promises! [21:42] should i add that to my wikipage? :P [21:44] knome: yeah, please add an election-candy section ;) [21:48] hehe [21:49] hey peeps. i fired this client up just because my irc was lagging seconds ago [21:49] so if something happens with my shell, i'll be shouting from here [21:50] Works for me [21:51] yup, just wanted to tell you so you don't think i'm spawning to get more votes :PP [21:51] Hadn't thought of that one. [21:52] So, we will only see a vote from one name, right? [21:52] yeah, definitely [21:52] this is just because my shell might drop any time [21:52] I am not feeding the meeting bot a 500 name voter list, though [21:52] hehe [21:52] yeah [21:52] i was thinking a simple vote for tonight since it's just you and me [21:52] +1 for you, -1 for me [21:53] if the outcome is positive, you win, negative, i win [21:53] you can give 0 too to vote nobody, and we can even check if we got more 0's than votes for either [21:53] but that's just technical stuf [21:53] +f [21:54] 6 minutes and counting [21:55] I was going to try that, but I am afraid it will confuse people. I think just call for two votes [21:55] GridCube: does your countdown take into account that the voting might not be in the beginning of the meeting? [21:55] charlie-tca, worksforme too [21:55] :P [21:55] ochosi, its for the !starmeeting point [21:55] I just want it to work this time, without the mess of the last transition [21:55] GridCube: you know, i'm afraid we might have to replace you with a better countdown bot ;D [21:56] charlie-tca, sure, we all want that stuff work :) [21:57] smooth transition might let us get CC approval for the council [21:57] council would be nice [21:58] D: but is 3 minutes and counting ochosi ! [21:58] some beer would also be nice [21:58] GridCube: its 1 minute [21:58] only worry about a council right now is that it would be made up of half the team :) [21:58] :D [21:58] charlie-tca: if you have two votes, how do you stop people voting for both of you? [21:58] pleia2: haha, good point [21:58] beardygnome, no way to stop that, but isn't that the same as voting "0" in the single vote? [21:58] I suppose you can vote for both if you really want to [21:59] We will have to vote until we have a winner [21:59] pleia2: but we are gaining members again. [21:59] charlie-tca: yes! so maybe next year :) [21:59] :D [22:00] heh, "let's vote again with same people voting the same way" [22:00] that'll the infinity [22:00] We just got to keep hoping we build enough up to keep things going [22:00] charlie-tca, knome: yes, it is, but i think a single vote would be easier [22:00] ITS ELECTION MEETING TIME!! \o/ [22:00] beardygnome, me too [22:01] beardygnome, but i'm okay with two votes too [22:02] how about everyone just says "charlie" or "knome" when we vote? [22:02] beardygnome, the bot can't log that [22:02] then we count the number for each? [22:02] do we need the bot to log it? [22:02] beardygnome, +1/-1 is way easier, and the bot gets the number automatically, no room for human error there :) [22:02] * charlie-tca waves at the crowd [22:02] it will be in the channel log for all to see [22:02] let's get this meeting started [22:02] beardygnome, i think at least that, to make the vote at least somewhat valid [22:02] sure! [22:02] #startmeeting Xubuntu [22:02] Meeting started Sun Oct 23 22:02:59 2011 UTC. The chair is charlie-tca. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [22:02] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [22:03] The agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [22:03] Reminder: please use ".." on separate line when you've finished typing. If someone wants to comment during the updates, please "o/", so we know to wait. [22:04] do we o/ for the bot to count us? [22:04] #topic OLD BUSINESS [22:04] I can't stay long (have some furniture to pick up) :\ [22:04] no, we will all be counted when voting [22:04] ok [22:04] pleia2, meh you [22:04] All old business is carried forward for the next Project Lead to bring forward. [22:05] #topic === Team updates === [22:05] #subtopic ==== Packaging & Development ==== [22:05] mr_pouit: I have seen a bug report on 12.04 already, but prefer to ignore it until we at least all the merges and syncs done [22:06] mr_pouit: your floor, do you have any updates this early? [22:06] (and toolkit uploaded?) [22:06] micahg started to do some syncs (I haven't even looked at precise yet ;-) [22:06] toolchain uploaded already [22:06] oh! [22:06] Okay, mr_pouit [22:06] o/ [22:07] (i thought it was after uds. sorry for distrupting) [22:07] there have been many bugs filed against oneiric recently too [22:07] yes, the increase in users is showing up rapidly [22:07] micahg: ? [22:07] I just wanted to say that an SRU for blueman is planned by me, just not sure if it'll happen before UDS [22:07] Great! [22:08] o/ [22:08] That will take out a couple of bugs [22:08] Bug #878682, Bug #877811 and Bug #878069 might also be SRU'able [22:08] knome: ? [22:08] Launchpad bug 878682 in xubuntu-meta (Ubuntu) "Fresh install of Xubuntu 11.10 misses gvfs-backends package" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878682 [22:08] Launchpad bug 877811 in xfce4-panel (Ubuntu) "DirectoryMenu plugin "Open in Terminal" doesn't work" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877811 [22:08] Launchpad bug 878069 in exo (Ubuntu Oneiric) "Mailto helpers broken on !i386 in 0.6.2-2" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/878069 [22:08] can we get a newer version of ristretto in oneiric too? it crashes if you are using thumbnailbar, but i heard that's fixed in 0.1.0 [22:08] (as SRU) + .. [22:08] mr_pouit: yeah, I can look at those (I know the last one will have to wait until exo makes it into testing/unstable) [22:09] micahg: it's in unstable now ;-) [22:09] * GridCube was going to propose we ditch ristretto for gpicviewer [22:09] mr_pouit: ristretto should be SRU able, isn't it? [22:09] mr_pouit: oops, meant testing/precise :) [22:09] * beardygnome supports GridCube [22:09] charlie-tca: we don't usually SRU major version updates (I think blueman might be an exception since it's all bug fix) [22:09] GridCube: you should try what's in git now, it really has evolved a lot [22:10] charlie-tca: knome: I haven't looked at the diff between 0.0.93 and 0.1.x, but I guess it's too big [22:10] ochosi, :) will try [22:10] GridCube, ristretto's got a lot of enhancements lately, so i'd say let's check that first too, and compare that to gpicviewer [22:10] mr_pouit, :( [22:10] blueman we got permission for before release [22:10] ristretto 0.1.0 was a total rewrite IIRC [22:10] mostly, yes [22:10] can we at least investigate that? [22:10] knome: we can backport it [22:10] Well, if ristretto can not be done, we will at least get the new version in Precise [22:10] charlie-tca: already there ;) [22:11] Okay [22:11] 0.2.0 will be coming after UDS [22:11] Anything else for development? [22:11] if psybsd didn't rewrite ristretto between 0.0.93 and 0.1.0, I can try to make a patch to fix issues [22:11] so if possible, let's try to get ristretto 0.1.0 in for oneiric as SRU or backport. [22:11] (but I think he rewrote many things ;-) [22:11] if there's a crash and there's a sensible patch, we can SRU that [22:12] We will at least look at it [22:12] thanks. or micahg or mr_pouit can PPA it [22:12] . [22:12] anything else? [22:12] knome: let's use backports, if you want to file the bug, I can get a test build up [22:12] micahg, i can do that. :) [22:12] knome: against oneiric-backports [22:13] thanks [22:13] o/ [22:13] #subtopic ==== Bug Triage & Testing ==== [22:13] GridCube: ? [22:13] can i ask something, that bothering me, why do you changed exaile for gmusicbrowser? [22:13] can't we go back to it? [22:14] exaile uses hal so no :P [22:14] can we cover that on "other business" ? [22:14] I have wondered the same thing. It seems like we lost the ability to play cd's in that switch [22:14] ok [22:14] it isn't really team update [22:14] .. [22:14] .. [22:14] correct [22:14] well, there's a branch for de-hal-ing it [22:15] oh, wait, we have parole, don't we? [22:15] micahg! behave! :P .. [22:15] as to bugs and testing, we will begin testing Precise the first week of December. Alph1 is due the 1st, and daily testing up to then is spotty [22:15] :D my new testing interface is ready :D [22:15] #subtopic ==== Website & Marketing ==== [22:15] Where are we on the website transition? [22:15] we're still pending on IS to get the latest plugin version in [22:15] * beardygnome thinks it looks good [22:16] after that, we need one more plugin/theme update, after that it is all about content (which is already copied over by pleia2) [22:16] so we're maybe about 1-3 weeks from going live (realistic estimation) [22:16] .. [22:16] I did a full audit of the old site yesterday and shared notes for what we need to review [22:16] Great! That would be fantastic [22:16] all the news is pulled over, 26 articles! [22:16] .. [22:16] i look forward to writing as much articles per release! [22:17] .. [22:17] knome: +1 [22:17] I haven't seen any reviews yet from our bloggers [22:17] charlie-tca: guess you missed http://beardygnome.co.uk/2011/10/22/oneiric-ocelot-arrives/ then [22:17] Artwork and Documentation should be discussed later, I think, as in next meeting [22:17] i can write one, but that wouldn't be so positive, since my upgrade miserably failed :( [22:17] :-) [22:18] beardygnome: I did [22:18] charlie-tca, agreed. nothing happening in those areas now [22:18] I was hoping to get that into the website news, too, which puts it in planet [22:18] knome: hey! i'm still fixing greybird-gtk3 bugs ;) [22:18] i can't say i've publicised it... [22:18] ochosi, hehe.. :) [22:19] #topic === Announcements === [22:19] Ubuntu is going to move to a 5 year release schedule for LTS releases. [22:19] We will need to seriously consider Xubuntu's ability to support this plan. [22:19] Staying with Ubuntu release cycles will mean supporting 12.04 for 5 years. [22:19] I am not willing to take this up before the election. [22:20] #topic === Xubuntu Governance === [22:20] * The governancy part of the current Strategy Document can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Governance_.26_Team_Structure [22:20] drumroll please... [22:20] charlie-tca: they already do 5 year support, don't they? [22:20] Only for servers [22:20] (beardygnome, 3 for desktop) [22:21] They are going to 5 year support for desktops [22:21] oh, sorry, hadn't heard that [22:21] #subtopic Nominations for Xubuntu Project Lead [22:21] .. [22:21] We have two nominees for this election today [22:21] Myself, and the esteemed knome [22:22] * knome bows [22:22] I would like knome to introduce himself and will give a few minutes to him. [22:22] knome: go ahead, sikr [22:22] knome: go ahead, sir [22:22] hello everybody! [22:22] i'm pasi lallinaho, a geek and a foss enthusiast from finland [22:23] i've been working with ubuntu since 2008, also as the xubuntu marketing lead for over a year [22:23] in 2009, i founded the shimmer project, via which i've continuously have contributed to xubuntu [22:23] you can read more at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/XPL - a shortlist of my bigger contributions to ubuntu is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PasiLallinaho/ [22:24] thanks .. [22:24] Lest any one decide to vote based on my and knome's interactions. Be aware, we do not see eye to eye often, but I have the greatest respect for knome. [22:25] I think enough of him to make him an IRC op in all of our channels, which gives him the right to throw even myself out. [22:25] to be exact, i've never seen charlie-tca in real life, but i do respect him very much too - he is doing an absolute fantastic job on QA and bugs! [22:25] thanks guys :) [22:25] * micahg can vouch for charlie-tca being a real person :) [22:26] lol [22:26] me too, i've heard he is real from what i've heard from people i've seen rl too [22:26] If anyone neeeds more time to read knome's wiki pages, please say so [22:26] or maybe this is the next truman story?? [22:26] I was real last time I looked in the mirror [22:27] (one can make even a bot say that!!) [22:27] ubottu: are you real? [22:27] micahg: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [22:27] just as a sidenote, i've never had problems with charlie-tca in the irc channels so i haven't had to think if i should throw him out :) [22:28] I am Charlie Kravetz. My wiki page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CharlieKravetz/XubuntuProjectLeadNomination [22:29] I want to thank knome for making this a true election this time. It is always good to have a choice. [22:29] :) [22:29] to be truthful, the ubuntu studio leader ScottL told he wanted to add a testimony for charlie too, but i think he forgot. [22:30] We will hold two votes, you can vote +1 to vote for the person. Only those members of https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-users/ are allowed to vote. [22:30] If you don't know if you are a member of the team, please ask. [22:30] I think i am [22:30] how to know? [22:30] GridCube, lp id? [22:30] gridcube [22:30] GridCube: you are [22:30] GridCube, you are a member. [22:31] :D [22:31] are new group members OK to vote as well? [22:31] GridCube, of xubuntu-users, and only xubuntu-users [22:31] GridCube: you are [22:31] :) [22:31] ok [22:31] dejot: yes, as long as you are a member [22:31] k, thx [22:32] yes, should be no difference. you might have wanted to join the team for voting too :) [22:32] yeah, to be honest i did that.. [22:32] #vote We are voting for knome first [22:32] Please vote on: We are voting for knome first [22:32] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [22:32] Please vote now [22:32] +1 [22:32] +1 received from ochosi [22:32] +0 [22:32] +0 received from charlie-tca [22:32] can i vote for myself? :) [22:32] +1 [22:32] +1 received from dejot [22:32] +1 [22:32] +0 [22:32] +1 received from pleia2 [22:32] +0 received from knome [22:32] yes [22:32] +1 [22:32] +1 [22:32] +1 received from nimbus [22:32] +1 received from edii [22:32] +0 [22:32] +1 [22:32] +0 received from GridCube [22:32] =1 [22:32] +1 received from madnick [22:32] +1 [22:32] +1 received from beardygnome [22:33] +1 [22:33] +1 received from JPohlmann [22:33] oooh :o [22:33] +1 [22:33] +1 received from mr_pouit [22:33] knome: yes, you may vote for yourself. You can also change your vote by voting again [22:33] do we vote only once? [22:33] looks like i'm not a member of xubuntu-users though... [22:33] charlie-tca, i'll disqualify myself. :) [22:33] You can vote twice, once for each of us [22:34] even though i'm in xubuntu-team... [22:34] +0 [22:34] +0 received from micahg [22:34] since xubuntu-users is an open group, i'd say anyone active enough in the community that both contestants know him, can vote. charlie-tca, agreed? [22:34] beardygnome, it autoaccepts you [22:34] yeah, If you are on Xubuntu-team, you are qualified to vote [22:34] :) [22:35] beardygnome: if you're in ~xubuntu-team, you're indirectly in ~xubuntu-users [22:35] (unless launchpad is lying to me, or I can't read straight anymore) [22:35] beardygnome: xubuntu-team is always included in xubuntu-users. So is xubuntu-devel [22:35] i might be registered under my real name, not my nick [22:35] just checking [22:36] heh [22:36] everybody going to vote has voted? [22:36] Does anyone else wish to vote? [22:36] we give it one minute [22:36] dum-di-dum... [22:37] * knome renders half-time music [22:37] tom bombadil songs? [22:37] :) [22:37] you name it, i hum it [22:37] #endvote [22:37] Voting ended on: We are voting for knome first [22:37]