/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/24/#kubuntu-devel.txt

claydohJontheEchidna: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3118966.0;topicseen they are stalking you now :) 00:08
JontheEchidna<.<00:09
JontheEchidna>.>00:09
JontheEchidna*hides*00:09
claydohI would, have you seen the " is Muon seriously retarded??" thread?00:13
claydohLOL00:13
JontheEchidnayeah, lol00:17
JontheEchidnathat is how I figured out that muon is (still) doing multiarch wrong, but a bug report first would have been nice...00:17
claydohahh but the forum peeps seldom want to do that :(00:21
claydohbut then again, i sholuld take the time to assist in that, or do them myself sometimes00:21
lnxkdegreat job with 11.10 running great and looking great :D04:09
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
bambeehi12:35
tazzih12:35
QuintasanGoddamn12:36
QuintasanAdding entries into KMenu is not working for me in 4.7212:36
Quintasan4.7.2* can anyone test that out?12:36
ScottKQuintasan: Adding how?  Seems to work here.12:46
QuintasanScottK: Like, right click at Kickoff -> 1st option from the menu -> Add new entry -> Try saving12:47
QuintasanIt shows the percentage bar when saving12:49
Quintasanit never displays any number and then it disappears12:50
Quintasanand I don't see anything new in menu12:50
QuintasanBut I get a new desktop file at /home/quintasan/.local/share/applications/12:50
ScottKI agree.12:52
Quintasanshadeslayer: Apparently, there are Plasma Active images for Transformer12:53
Quintasanshadeslayer: http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Community_Workspace12:53
QuintasanScottK: With what?12:53
ScottKI get the same thing you do.12:53
ScottKNot sure if it worked before though.12:54
Quintasan:/12:54
ScottKIt looks like the bug is not looking in the .local dir since the files are there12:54
QuintasanScottK: Once I get a VM running and it occurs there too I will report bugz upstream12:55
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
bambeeJontheEchidna: muon rocks dude! seriously ! it's definitively better than synaptics :D15:59
DarkwingI have some creavite commons stickers if anyone wants me to bring them to UDS16:05
=== sheytan_ is now known as sheytan
sheytanhey guys, what do you think about such thing in KDE desktop http://madsheytan.blogspot.com/2011/10/kiedy-dobre-rozwiazania-mogyby-zagoscic.html18:26
bulldog98sheytan: I like it, exept the problem, that the activity content (of an other) is not displayable within kwin effect context19:04
sheytanbulldog98: if you use activity and preview your desktop with grid view (kwin plugin) you get all the windows on secific desktop + desktops preview so what's the problem?19:06
yofelhm, with 4.7.2 in -updates I should be finishing the backports19:23
CIA-130[lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-l10n-common-natty] Philip Muškovac * 104 * debian/ (changelog config) New upstream release (svn: 1256933, type: stable)20:06
valoriesheytan: "blow their minds"20:08
valorienot blow them, please20:09
valorie:-)20:09
valorieit looks excellent20:09
valorieI want Activities to go that last mile and be mind-blowingly excellent20:10
=== jjesse_ is now known as jjesse
* apachelogger waves fist about activites20:19
apacheloggerdid I mention that I am being payed to conduct fist waving nowadays?20:20
valorieweeeeeee20:20
apacheloggerI think I might have discovered my true calling20:20
* valorie looks forward to more fist-waving20:20
yofelindeed20:20
valorieapachelogger - did you hear that we wrote a book?20:21
valorielike, A BOOK20:21
valoriesitting next to me20:21
apacheloggeryes, the intartubes told me20:22
apacheloggerhow many pages?20:22
apacheloggerdoes it have nude art?20:22
valorieabout 8020:22
valorienude parallelograms20:22
valorieright on the cover20:22
valoriesec20:22
apacheloggeruh20:22
apacheloggera true geeks nude art20:22
apacheloggerawesome20:22
apachelogger80 pages is like supreme20:22
valoriewhen you have a chance, probably like....next year, perhaps you can read and make necessary changes20:35
valoriewe think it's good, but want it to be excellent20:35
valorieso maybe slightly more nude nudes on the second cover20:36
valoriewow, bug-fixing and polishing only, it sounds like: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/81020:42
apacheloggervalorie: I hear yofel would like to model20:42
valorieabout time there was some focus on that20:42
valorieoooo20:42
apacheloggerah, always them long blog posts -.-20:42
macopeople only been begging for years for it...20:42
valoriea volunteer model!20:42
valoriemaco, yes20:42
valorieAND a call out for accessability again20:43
apacheloggerthere is no bug you can't fix with fist waving20:43
valorieabout time......20:43
apacheloggerworks every single time20:43
yofelWHAT???20:43
* yofel hits apachelogger with a konqi figure20:43
apacheloggerawww, yofi, c'mon20:43
macovalorie: given the irc meeting between pen & jono, that doesnt actually mean more canonical resources devoted to it...just more going "pretty please will someone volunteer to help with a11y?" on blogs or something, since there are now a total of 3 programmers on a11y team20:43
valorieoh, ugh20:44
apacheloggermaco: cool20:44
maco1 being luke who does it part-time for canonical, 1 being pinheiro who i think is a kde guy and got contracted by canonical toward the end of oneiric to do some last minute fixing, and one being yours truly20:44
valorieotoh, if the programmers were all apachelogger clones......20:44
apacheloggerwhy put monies into it if you can suck free labour out of the communities20:45
apacheloggeromnomnomnom20:45
maco(i say luke part-time because he's a fulltime canonical employee who has to split attention between a11y and audio)20:45
valorieare you contracting, or ?20:45
macoapachelogger: btw, in the responses to jono's survey, someone suggested hiring you20:45
macovalorie: no20:45
valorieso really, 1.520:45
macoi just occasionally go "are you serious? *sigh* *hack* *poke luke with patch*"20:45
valorienot 320:45
macoi meant the entire ubuntu a11y team20:46
macothere is no a11y team at canonical, afaik20:46
valoriegood lord20:46
macomost of the a11y team is testers, and there are bugs they're finding that none of us know how to fix20:46
apacheloggermaco: nice, then again nokia was faster even though they were pretty slow :P20:46
valoriedoes anyone call out shuttleworth on his ... um, hypocrisy?20:46
valorietrying to stay family friendly here.....20:47
valoriebut maybe a11y bugs will be given some priority by canonical?20:48
macothe release team does give a crap. if i point out feature requests that would have a significant impact on accessibility-tool users to kate, she'll bring them up with the desktop team to try to get them in, even last minute20:48
macothere is a rule in bug triaging that a11y bugs are automatically bumped up one notch on importance20:49
apacheloggerwhich reminds me20:49
ScottKmaco: I think that's true for more people in the release team than just Kate.20:49
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: we do bug triage, we however do not fix bugs20:49
apacheloggerI see a fatal flaw there ^^20:49
macoScottK: im sure, just she's the one i talk to most, so if i mention a thing in passing, she'll push for it20:50
macoJontheEchidna: btw, my neighbor <3 muon20:50
apacheloggerkubuntuforums doesn't :P20:50
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: actually .... what I came to think of the other day... muon and the installer need a busy indication while it is mapping stuff around20:51
apacheloggerwith many super sized repos it can a bit to load20:51
maco<annalee> what is this muon business? It looks cool. Is it cool?20:51
maco<annalee> it appears to be like kpackagekit but with more features and pretty stuff20:51
maco<annalee> ok, well I am interested in this muon, and wish to subscribe to its newsletter.20:51
JontheEchidna:D20:51
macoScottK: also, i dont actually know which people are also on the release team. i think maybe you are.20:52
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: the difference is, triaging bugs often requires much less effort than fixing them :P20:52
macoexcept youre a volunteer so im not sure if you can be20:52
ScottKYes.  I am.20:52
macobut i know you have special powers20:52
ScottKThere's a number of non-Canonical people on the release team.20:52
JontheEchidnabrb, dinner20:52
apacheloggervolunteers not being able to be on the release team would be a bit rubbish20:52
apachelogger'a bit'20:52
macoi wasnt sure if it was an ubuntu team or canonical team20:53
macolike the confusion valorie just had about a11y team20:53
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: yeah, but once Darkwing launches our super tirage team we need to flesh out a work flow for getting stuff done20:53
apacheloggeras the new super team should free up resources for developers20:53
valoriemyriam/mamarok could be a great resource for that team20:54
valorieDarkwing: ^^^20:54
macovalorie: a big part of the problem with a11y stuff is the docs are sucky.  cjwatson & kate both said theyd like to help out but dont know how. i said i can just sorta kinda muddle through but not enough to teach.20:54
valorieshe totally rocks on Amarok bugs20:54
apacheloggerthat is very true indeed20:55
valoriemaco, nobody is interested in doin good documentation?20:55
macowith lots of digging i found a doc that helps with a11y stuff, but a lot of what i was reading was flying over my head too20:55
valorie"lots of digging" -- that is no good20:55
macovalorie: i dont think anyone in ubuntu or canonical knows the stuff well enough to write it. we're depending on upstream docs buried deep in google20:55
valoriemaco: want to write a book with me about it?20:56
macoi dont know how to do it20:56
macoi know how to assign things in glade20:56
macoand how to say that a radio button and label go together20:56
valoriebut we can find people to help20:56
macobut just making a window screenreader-happy isnt enough of course20:57
valorieif we organize, and glop the old stuff into flossmanuals, then we can find people to help make it usable20:57
macothe thing i got kate to put on the schedule very late was making it so that searching "accessibility" in unity didnt come up blank.  the apps are tagged "accessibility" as a keyword in .desktop but keywords were ignored20:57
valoriewe could make this cross disto20:58
apacheloggervalorie: if you put nude art on it we could even sell it and make monies to employ someone to actually work on a11y20:58
valorieand get lots of people helping20:58
apacheloggerfunny fact part of phonon for quite some time had a string mapping of ally20:58
apachelogger^^20:58
valorieanother job for yofel!20:58
apacheloggeryofi, you better be hitting the gym hard20:58
yofel. . .20:58
* apachelogger should do that too FWIW20:59
valorieheeee20:59
* valorie is gonna be making a walking desk Any Day Now20:59
valoriesick of sitting all day20:59
valoriehusband said he would help with the desk part21:00
yofelhehe21:00
apacheloggerwhat is a walking desk?21:00
valorieand didn't get angry about the "treadmill in the living room" part21:00
Riddellbonsoir21:00
valorietreadmill with a desk, basically21:00
valorieyou can walk about 1mph and still read, type, etc21:01
valoriedo that 8 hours per day and you have 8 miles in21:01
valoriehttp://www.treadmill-desk.com/21:02
valorieanyway, maco, think about it21:03
valorieand I'll think about it with some people21:03
valorieit could be a huge help to a11y in the modern FOSS world21:03
valoriefoss used to be a leader21:04
valorienow we are sorta fusty dusty21:04
RiddellKDE could be a leader now Qt has it, just needs some keen people again21:07
Riddellalas all the KDE people who were keen on accessibility got bored waiting on Qt21:07
macoRiddell: the good news is screenreaders Just Work for any K-widget heavily based on a Q-widget21:12
macohowever, that leaves out Konsole and KHTML21:12
Riddellmm, except that in oneiric qt-at-spi crashes most KDE programmes21:15
RiddellI think I'm going to have an update which has  unset QT_ACCESSIBILITY in /usr/bin/startkde21:15
macooh right yes, that bug21:16
macothis was mentioned recently... apparently it doesnt crash unity and thats what htey cared most about21:17
maco(of course)21:17
* yofel got a mail asking wether all KDE point releases will now end up in -updates once they're released, not only the updates PPA and then SRU .521:21
yofelconsidering uploading to -proposed took us over a week for 4.7.2. I would rather keep 4.7.2 an exception...21:24
yofelalthough if we really only upload the changed packages it might be doable. Question is by whom21:24
Riddellyofel: we have permission to do it and it would make sense, but it's a question of testing and manpower21:28
Riddelland I suspect we're not high on manpower in the coming months21:28
Riddell(appologies for the possible sexist grammar there, feel free to suggest improvements)21:28
ulyssesuse a language that doesn't make difference between man and woman :P21:29
yofel*if* we only package the *changed* packages in the first place, instead of the whole point release, then one could spend more time on Q/A. But that then leads back to the question of how confusing it is to have pieces of the release in several different versions21:30
debfxmaybe yofel can pay someone to do the SRUs if his modelling career takes off ;)21:30
yofeldon't count on that ;P21:30
yofelalthough If I only focus on the SRU stuff I guess I could get those done in half a week of so21:31
yofelone could think of the "what to update" problem anyway thinking that 4.8 will probably have ~90 packages21:32
Riddell90!21:33
* debfx sighs21:33
yofelkdeaccessibility + kdeutils, and 4.7 had ~7021:33
Riddellwe probably need to look at scripting it as much as possible21:33
yofelwe already use scripts for the packaging. Only the backports I never got around to script21:34
Riddelldo we?  clever us21:34
* debfx doesn't21:34
yofelsee kubuntu-dev-tools part of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment on what scripts we have right now21:35
* yofel needs to rewrite the release packaging guide one of these days21:35
debfxwe also need some automated QA like running lintian and list-missing automatically21:35
macotheres a kubuntu-dev-tools?21:35
yofelmaco: in bzr, as we're really good at forgetting to upload it21:35
macooh21:36
macoadd a script in it that uploads it!21:36
yofelheh21:36
* yofel wonders if one could put daily builds of that somewhere21:36
yofelguess I could make a PPA for that21:36
Riddellideally I think we want to be able to throw a release at EC2 and have it build then review the cmake output for missing dependencies, the --list-missing output and the install result21:36
debfxthere are still missing license headers in kubuntu-dev-tools, that's why I've never uploaded it21:37
yofeltrue, also some packages have totally useless error output21:37
debfxRiddell: could you add those to the ec2/ scripts?21:37
Riddellthere are ec2 scripts?21:37
debfxyeah, someone called Jonathan Riddell committed them ;)21:38
yofelwhich reminds me I need to write kcleanppa soon, cleaning out a PPA with the LP UI is almost as bad as trying to copy something21:38
Riddellclever him21:39
yofel^^21:39
Riddellyofel: is there an API to clean PPAs?21:39
RiddellI use the ssh interface to that but others don't have access to that21:39
yofelthere *should* be an API to delete packages. So I just need to get all published packages for a PPA and delete every one of them21:40
yofelafter all copying work, so deleting should be there too21:40
yofel*works21:40
valorieRiddell: if I rope maco into helping write a book, perhaps we'll draw in those KDE a11y folks again too21:48
valorieafter GCI21:48
Riddellhmm, I'm not sure there are any left21:49
valoriealthough we should start soon, so we can start dumping stuff in as we find it/think of it21:49
valorieRiddell: did they DIE?21:49
valorieor just go elsewhere21:49
Riddellquite possibly, it's been a long wait21:49
Riddelljpwhiting did a bit recently21:49
valoriethat sucks21:50
Riddellolaf is still on kde/freeqt21:50
valorie:(21:50
Riddellgunner I haven't heard from and that american bloke had to give it up for his work21:50
valorieif you think about it, shoot me a list of their names and emails21:50
valorieso I can ping them once we have something semi-readable21:51
Riddelljust use kde-accessibility list21:53
valorieok21:54
Uninstallhey22:12
Uninstallanybody here?22:12
yofelUninstall: yep22:13
yofelah, skype22:14
Uninstallyofel: exactly22:16
Uninstallhonestly I'm a bit worried about how kubuntu has been released with a similar bug22:17
Uninstallyou should test your package manager if you replace it22:18
UninstallI mean kpackagekit never tired to install random packages22:18
Uninstallwhile muon does22:18
yofeluhm... multiarch support was forced by ubuntu and put together hastily for muon so muon isn't totally broken22:18
UninstallI would call that a regression22:18
yofelrandom packages o.O?22:18
Uninstallyofel: well, I installed skype from software center and it installed libc6-xen22:19
Uninstalland honestly I think I was rather lucky22:19
yofelhm, no idea. I'm not using multiarch and don't have a libc6-xen package here. So that seems multiarch related22:20
Uninstallwhat happens if the random package was something like grub-efi on my non efi system?22:20
yofelnothing particulary good22:21
Uninstallexactly22:21
Uninstallso I was lucky with libc6-xen that is rather useless22:21
JontheEchidnaThe good news is that it's libc6-zen for everybody22:28
JontheEchidnaand that the new version of Muon that I'm in the middle of pushing out isn't affected by this issue22:29
JontheEchidnaand things were working with 1.2.0 before Ubuntu enable multi-arch in apt after feature freeze, at which point things were tested to have been working22:31
valorieRiddell: turns out I wasn't subbed to that list, so thank you for the reminder22:42
valoriealso, their website has many cobwebs on it22:42
valoriesuitable for Hallowe'en, even22:42
CIA-130[lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 130 * (bin/klearppa debian/changelog) Added klearppa to clear out the packages in a PPA22:47
yofelneeds some error handling, but does its job22:47
* yofel is off to bed - good night22:47
JontheEchidnais that anything like ppa-purge?22:51

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