| claydoh | JontheEchidna: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3118966.0;topicseen they are stalking you now :) | 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| JontheEchidna | <.< | 00:09 |
| JontheEchidna | >.> | 00:09 |
| JontheEchidna | *hides* | 00:09 |
| claydoh | I would, have you seen the " is Muon seriously retarded??" thread? | 00:13 |
| claydoh | LOL | 00:13 |
| JontheEchidna | yeah, lol | 00:17 |
| JontheEchidna | that is how I figured out that muon is (still) doing multiarch wrong, but a bug report first would have been nice... | 00:17 |
| claydoh | ahh but the forum peeps seldom want to do that :( | 00:21 |
| claydoh | but then again, i sholuld take the time to assist in that, or do them myself sometimes | 00:21 |
| lnxkde | great job with 11.10 running great and looking great :D | 04:09 |
| === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse | ||
| === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan | ||
| bambee | hi | 12:35 |
| tazz | ih | 12:35 |
| Quintasan | Goddamn | 12:36 |
| Quintasan | Adding entries into KMenu is not working for me in 4.72 | 12:36 |
| Quintasan | 4.7.2* can anyone test that out? | 12:36 |
| ScottK | Quintasan: Adding how? Seems to work here. | 12:46 |
| Quintasan | ScottK: Like, right click at Kickoff -> 1st option from the menu -> Add new entry -> Try saving | 12:47 |
| Quintasan | It shows the percentage bar when saving | 12:49 |
| Quintasan | it never displays any number and then it disappears | 12:50 |
| Quintasan | and I don't see anything new in menu | 12:50 |
| Quintasan | But I get a new desktop file at /home/quintasan/.local/share/applications/ | 12:50 |
| ScottK | I agree. | 12:52 |
| Quintasan | shadeslayer: Apparently, there are Plasma Active images for Transformer | 12:53 |
| Quintasan | shadeslayer: http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Community_Workspace | 12:53 |
| Quintasan | ScottK: With what? | 12:53 |
| ScottK | I get the same thing you do. | 12:53 |
| ScottK | Not sure if it worked before though. | 12:54 |
| Quintasan | :/ | 12:54 |
| ScottK | It looks like the bug is not looking in the .local dir since the files are there | 12:54 |
| Quintasan | ScottK: Once I get a VM running and it occurs there too I will report bugz upstream | 12:55 |
| === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan | ||
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| bambee | JontheEchidna: muon rocks dude! seriously ! it's definitively better than synaptics :D | 15:59 |
| Darkwing | I have some creavite commons stickers if anyone wants me to bring them to UDS | 16:05 |
| === sheytan_ is now known as sheytan | ||
| sheytan | hey guys, what do you think about such thing in KDE desktop http://madsheytan.blogspot.com/2011/10/kiedy-dobre-rozwiazania-mogyby-zagoscic.html | 18:26 |
| bulldog98 | sheytan: I like it, exept the problem, that the activity content (of an other) is not displayable within kwin effect context | 19:04 |
| sheytan | bulldog98: if you use activity and preview your desktop with grid view (kwin plugin) you get all the windows on secific desktop + desktops preview so what's the problem? | 19:06 |
| yofel | hm, with 4.7.2 in -updates I should be finishing the backports | 19:23 |
| CIA-130 | [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-l10n-common-natty] Philip Muškovac * 104 * debian/ (changelog config) New upstream release (svn: 1256933, type: stable) | 20:06 |
| valorie | sheytan: "blow their minds" | 20:08 |
| valorie | not blow them, please | 20:09 |
| valorie | :-) | 20:09 |
| valorie | it looks excellent | 20:09 |
| valorie | I want Activities to go that last mile and be mind-blowingly excellent | 20:10 |
| === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse | ||
| * apachelogger waves fist about activites | 20:19 | |
| apachelogger | did I mention that I am being payed to conduct fist waving nowadays? | 20:20 |
| valorie | weeeeeee | 20:20 |
| apachelogger | I think I might have discovered my true calling | 20:20 |
| * valorie looks forward to more fist-waving | 20:20 | |
| yofel | indeed | 20:20 |
| valorie | apachelogger - did you hear that we wrote a book? | 20:21 |
| valorie | like, A BOOK | 20:21 |
| valorie | sitting next to me | 20:21 |
| apachelogger | yes, the intartubes told me | 20:22 |
| apachelogger | how many pages? | 20:22 |
| apachelogger | does it have nude art? | 20:22 |
| valorie | about 80 | 20:22 |
| valorie | nude parallelograms | 20:22 |
| valorie | right on the cover | 20:22 |
| valorie | sec | 20:22 |
| apachelogger | uh | 20:22 |
| apachelogger | a true geeks nude art | 20:22 |
| apachelogger | awesome | 20:22 |
| apachelogger | 80 pages is like supreme | 20:22 |
| valorie | when you have a chance, probably like....next year, perhaps you can read and make necessary changes | 20:35 |
| valorie | we think it's good, but want it to be excellent | 20:35 |
| valorie | so maybe slightly more nude nudes on the second cover | 20:36 |
| valorie | wow, bug-fixing and polishing only, it sounds like: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/810 | 20:42 |
| apachelogger | valorie: I hear yofel would like to model | 20:42 |
| valorie | about time there was some focus on that | 20:42 |
| valorie | oooo | 20:42 |
| apachelogger | ah, always them long blog posts -.- | 20:42 |
| maco | people only been begging for years for it... | 20:42 |
| valorie | a volunteer model! | 20:42 |
| valorie | maco, yes | 20:42 |
| valorie | AND a call out for accessability again | 20:43 |
| apachelogger | there is no bug you can't fix with fist waving | 20:43 |
| valorie | about time...... | 20:43 |
| apachelogger | works every single time | 20:43 |
| yofel | WHAT??? | 20:43 |
| * yofel hits apachelogger with a konqi figure | 20:43 | |
| apachelogger | awww, yofi, c'mon | 20:43 |
| maco | valorie: given the irc meeting between pen & jono, that doesnt actually mean more canonical resources devoted to it...just more going "pretty please will someone volunteer to help with a11y?" on blogs or something, since there are now a total of 3 programmers on a11y team | 20:43 |
| valorie | oh, ugh | 20:44 |
| apachelogger | maco: cool | 20:44 |
| maco | 1 being luke who does it part-time for canonical, 1 being pinheiro who i think is a kde guy and got contracted by canonical toward the end of oneiric to do some last minute fixing, and one being yours truly | 20:44 |
| valorie | otoh, if the programmers were all apachelogger clones...... | 20:44 |
| apachelogger | why put monies into it if you can suck free labour out of the communities | 20:45 |
| apachelogger | omnomnomnom | 20:45 |
| maco | (i say luke part-time because he's a fulltime canonical employee who has to split attention between a11y and audio) | 20:45 |
| valorie | are you contracting, or ? | 20:45 |
| maco | apachelogger: btw, in the responses to jono's survey, someone suggested hiring you | 20:45 |
| maco | valorie: no | 20:45 |
| valorie | so really, 1.5 | 20:45 |
| maco | i just occasionally go "are you serious? *sigh* *hack* *poke luke with patch*" | 20:45 |
| valorie | not 3 | 20:45 |
| maco | i meant the entire ubuntu a11y team | 20:46 |
| maco | there is no a11y team at canonical, afaik | 20:46 |
| valorie | good lord | 20:46 |
| maco | most of the a11y team is testers, and there are bugs they're finding that none of us know how to fix | 20:46 |
| apachelogger | maco: nice, then again nokia was faster even though they were pretty slow :P | 20:46 |
| valorie | does anyone call out shuttleworth on his ... um, hypocrisy? | 20:46 |
| valorie | trying to stay family friendly here..... | 20:47 |
| valorie | but maybe a11y bugs will be given some priority by canonical? | 20:48 |
| maco | the release team does give a crap. if i point out feature requests that would have a significant impact on accessibility-tool users to kate, she'll bring them up with the desktop team to try to get them in, even last minute | 20:48 |
| maco | there is a rule in bug triaging that a11y bugs are automatically bumped up one notch on importance | 20:49 |
| apachelogger | which reminds me | 20:49 |
| ScottK | maco: I think that's true for more people in the release team than just Kate. | 20:49 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: we do bug triage, we however do not fix bugs | 20:49 |
| apachelogger | I see a fatal flaw there ^^ | 20:49 |
| maco | ScottK: im sure, just she's the one i talk to most, so if i mention a thing in passing, she'll push for it | 20:50 |
| maco | JontheEchidna: btw, my neighbor <3 muon | 20:50 |
| apachelogger | kubuntuforums doesn't :P | 20:50 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: actually .... what I came to think of the other day... muon and the installer need a busy indication while it is mapping stuff around | 20:51 |
| apachelogger | with many super sized repos it can a bit to load | 20:51 |
| maco | <annalee> what is this muon business? It looks cool. Is it cool? | 20:51 |
| maco | <annalee> it appears to be like kpackagekit but with more features and pretty stuff | 20:51 |
| maco | <annalee> ok, well I am interested in this muon, and wish to subscribe to its newsletter. | 20:51 |
| JontheEchidna | :D | 20:51 |
| maco | ScottK: also, i dont actually know which people are also on the release team. i think maybe you are. | 20:52 |
| JontheEchidna | apachelogger: the difference is, triaging bugs often requires much less effort than fixing them :P | 20:52 |
| maco | except youre a volunteer so im not sure if you can be | 20:52 |
| ScottK | Yes. I am. | 20:52 |
| maco | but i know you have special powers | 20:52 |
| ScottK | There's a number of non-Canonical people on the release team. | 20:52 |
| JontheEchidna | brb, dinner | 20:52 |
| apachelogger | volunteers not being able to be on the release team would be a bit rubbish | 20:52 |
| apachelogger | 'a bit' | 20:52 |
| maco | i wasnt sure if it was an ubuntu team or canonical team | 20:53 |
| maco | like the confusion valorie just had about a11y team | 20:53 |
| apachelogger | JontheEchidna: yeah, but once Darkwing launches our super tirage team we need to flesh out a work flow for getting stuff done | 20:53 |
| apachelogger | as the new super team should free up resources for developers | 20:53 |
| valorie | myriam/mamarok could be a great resource for that team | 20:54 |
| valorie | Darkwing: ^^^ | 20:54 |
| maco | valorie: a big part of the problem with a11y stuff is the docs are sucky. cjwatson & kate both said theyd like to help out but dont know how. i said i can just sorta kinda muddle through but not enough to teach. | 20:54 |
| valorie | she totally rocks on Amarok bugs | 20:54 |
| apachelogger | that is very true indeed | 20:55 |
| valorie | maco, nobody is interested in doin good documentation? | 20:55 |
| maco | with lots of digging i found a doc that helps with a11y stuff, but a lot of what i was reading was flying over my head too | 20:55 |
| valorie | "lots of digging" -- that is no good | 20:55 |
| maco | valorie: i dont think anyone in ubuntu or canonical knows the stuff well enough to write it. we're depending on upstream docs buried deep in google | 20:55 |
| valorie | maco: want to write a book with me about it? | 20:56 |
| maco | i dont know how to do it | 20:56 |
| maco | i know how to assign things in glade | 20:56 |
| maco | and how to say that a radio button and label go together | 20:56 |
| valorie | but we can find people to help | 20:56 |
| maco | but just making a window screenreader-happy isnt enough of course | 20:57 |
| valorie | if we organize, and glop the old stuff into flossmanuals, then we can find people to help make it usable | 20:57 |
| maco | the thing i got kate to put on the schedule very late was making it so that searching "accessibility" in unity didnt come up blank. the apps are tagged "accessibility" as a keyword in .desktop but keywords were ignored | 20:57 |
| valorie | we could make this cross disto | 20:58 |
| apachelogger | valorie: if you put nude art on it we could even sell it and make monies to employ someone to actually work on a11y | 20:58 |
| valorie | and get lots of people helping | 20:58 |
| apachelogger | funny fact part of phonon for quite some time had a string mapping of ally | 20:58 |
| apachelogger | ^^ | 20:58 |
| valorie | another job for yofel! | 20:58 |
| apachelogger | yofi, you better be hitting the gym hard | 20:58 |
| yofel | . . . | 20:58 |
| * apachelogger should do that too FWIW | 20:59 | |
| valorie | heeee | 20:59 |
| * valorie is gonna be making a walking desk Any Day Now | 20:59 | |
| valorie | sick of sitting all day | 20:59 |
| valorie | husband said he would help with the desk part | 21:00 |
| yofel | hehe | 21:00 |
| apachelogger | what is a walking desk? | 21:00 |
| valorie | and didn't get angry about the "treadmill in the living room" part | 21:00 |
| Riddell | bonsoir | 21:00 |
| valorie | treadmill with a desk, basically | 21:00 |
| valorie | you can walk about 1mph and still read, type, etc | 21:01 |
| valorie | do that 8 hours per day and you have 8 miles in | 21:01 |
| valorie | http://www.treadmill-desk.com/ | 21:02 |
| valorie | anyway, maco, think about it | 21:03 |
| valorie | and I'll think about it with some people | 21:03 |
| valorie | it could be a huge help to a11y in the modern FOSS world | 21:03 |
| valorie | foss used to be a leader | 21:04 |
| valorie | now we are sorta fusty dusty | 21:04 |
| Riddell | KDE could be a leader now Qt has it, just needs some keen people again | 21:07 |
| Riddell | alas all the KDE people who were keen on accessibility got bored waiting on Qt | 21:07 |
| maco | Riddell: the good news is screenreaders Just Work for any K-widget heavily based on a Q-widget | 21:12 |
| maco | however, that leaves out Konsole and KHTML | 21:12 |
| Riddell | mm, except that in oneiric qt-at-spi crashes most KDE programmes | 21:15 |
| Riddell | I think I'm going to have an update which has unset QT_ACCESSIBILITY in /usr/bin/startkde | 21:15 |
| maco | oh right yes, that bug | 21:16 |
| maco | this was mentioned recently... apparently it doesnt crash unity and thats what htey cared most about | 21:17 |
| maco | (of course) | 21:17 |
| * yofel got a mail asking wether all KDE point releases will now end up in -updates once they're released, not only the updates PPA and then SRU .5 | 21:21 | |
| yofel | considering uploading to -proposed took us over a week for 4.7.2. I would rather keep 4.7.2 an exception... | 21:24 |
| yofel | although if we really only upload the changed packages it might be doable. Question is by whom | 21:24 |
| Riddell | yofel: we have permission to do it and it would make sense, but it's a question of testing and manpower | 21:28 |
| Riddell | and I suspect we're not high on manpower in the coming months | 21:28 |
| Riddell | (appologies for the possible sexist grammar there, feel free to suggest improvements) | 21:28 |
| ulysses | use a language that doesn't make difference between man and woman :P | 21:29 |
| yofel | *if* we only package the *changed* packages in the first place, instead of the whole point release, then one could spend more time on Q/A. But that then leads back to the question of how confusing it is to have pieces of the release in several different versions | 21:30 |
| debfx | maybe yofel can pay someone to do the SRUs if his modelling career takes off ;) | 21:30 |
| yofel | don't count on that ;P | 21:30 |
| yofel | although If I only focus on the SRU stuff I guess I could get those done in half a week of so | 21:31 |
| yofel | one could think of the "what to update" problem anyway thinking that 4.8 will probably have ~90 packages | 21:32 |
| Riddell | 90! | 21:33 |
| * debfx sighs | 21:33 | |
| yofel | kdeaccessibility + kdeutils, and 4.7 had ~70 | 21:33 |
| Riddell | we probably need to look at scripting it as much as possible | 21:33 |
| yofel | we already use scripts for the packaging. Only the backports I never got around to script | 21:34 |
| Riddell | do we? clever us | 21:34 |
| * debfx doesn't | 21:34 | |
| yofel | see kubuntu-dev-tools part of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment on what scripts we have right now | 21:35 |
| * yofel needs to rewrite the release packaging guide one of these days | 21:35 | |
| debfx | we also need some automated QA like running lintian and list-missing automatically | 21:35 |
| maco | theres a kubuntu-dev-tools? | 21:35 |
| yofel | maco: in bzr, as we're really good at forgetting to upload it | 21:35 |
| maco | oh | 21:36 |
| maco | add a script in it that uploads it! | 21:36 |
| yofel | heh | 21:36 |
| * yofel wonders if one could put daily builds of that somewhere | 21:36 | |
| yofel | guess I could make a PPA for that | 21:36 |
| Riddell | ideally I think we want to be able to throw a release at EC2 and have it build then review the cmake output for missing dependencies, the --list-missing output and the install result | 21:36 |
| debfx | there are still missing license headers in kubuntu-dev-tools, that's why I've never uploaded it | 21:37 |
| yofel | true, also some packages have totally useless error output | 21:37 |
| debfx | Riddell: could you add those to the ec2/ scripts? | 21:37 |
| Riddell | there are ec2 scripts? | 21:37 |
| debfx | yeah, someone called Jonathan Riddell committed them ;) | 21:38 |
| yofel | which reminds me I need to write kcleanppa soon, cleaning out a PPA with the LP UI is almost as bad as trying to copy something | 21:38 |
| Riddell | clever him | 21:39 |
| yofel | ^^ | 21:39 |
| Riddell | yofel: is there an API to clean PPAs? | 21:39 |
| Riddell | I use the ssh interface to that but others don't have access to that | 21:39 |
| yofel | there *should* be an API to delete packages. So I just need to get all published packages for a PPA and delete every one of them | 21:40 |
| yofel | after all copying work, so deleting should be there too | 21:40 |
| yofel | *works | 21:40 |
| valorie | Riddell: if I rope maco into helping write a book, perhaps we'll draw in those KDE a11y folks again too | 21:48 |
| valorie | after GCI | 21:48 |
| Riddell | hmm, I'm not sure there are any left | 21:49 |
| valorie | although we should start soon, so we can start dumping stuff in as we find it/think of it | 21:49 |
| valorie | Riddell: did they DIE? | 21:49 |
| valorie | or just go elsewhere | 21:49 |
| Riddell | quite possibly, it's been a long wait | 21:49 |
| Riddell | jpwhiting did a bit recently | 21:49 |
| valorie | that sucks | 21:50 |
| Riddell | olaf is still on kde/freeqt | 21:50 |
| valorie | :( | 21:50 |
| Riddell | gunner I haven't heard from and that american bloke had to give it up for his work | 21:50 |
| valorie | if you think about it, shoot me a list of their names and emails | 21:50 |
| valorie | so I can ping them once we have something semi-readable | 21:51 |
| Riddell | just use kde-accessibility list | 21:53 |
| valorie | ok | 21:54 |
| Uninstall | hey | 22:12 |
| Uninstall | anybody here? | 22:12 |
| yofel | Uninstall: yep | 22:13 |
| yofel | ah, skype | 22:14 |
| Uninstall | yofel: exactly | 22:16 |
| Uninstall | honestly I'm a bit worried about how kubuntu has been released with a similar bug | 22:17 |
| Uninstall | you should test your package manager if you replace it | 22:18 |
| Uninstall | I mean kpackagekit never tired to install random packages | 22:18 |
| Uninstall | while muon does | 22:18 |
| yofel | uhm... multiarch support was forced by ubuntu and put together hastily for muon so muon isn't totally broken | 22:18 |
| Uninstall | I would call that a regression | 22:18 |
| yofel | random packages o.O? | 22:18 |
| Uninstall | yofel: well, I installed skype from software center and it installed libc6-xen | 22:19 |
| Uninstall | and honestly I think I was rather lucky | 22:19 |
| yofel | hm, no idea. I'm not using multiarch and don't have a libc6-xen package here. So that seems multiarch related | 22:20 |
| Uninstall | what happens if the random package was something like grub-efi on my non efi system? | 22:20 |
| yofel | nothing particulary good | 22:21 |
| Uninstall | exactly | 22:21 |
| Uninstall | so I was lucky with libc6-xen that is rather useless | 22:21 |
| JontheEchidna | The good news is that it's libc6-zen for everybody | 22:28 |
| JontheEchidna | and that the new version of Muon that I'm in the middle of pushing out isn't affected by this issue | 22:29 |
| JontheEchidna | and things were working with 1.2.0 before Ubuntu enable multi-arch in apt after feature freeze, at which point things were tested to have been working | 22:31 |
| valorie | Riddell: turns out I wasn't subbed to that list, so thank you for the reminder | 22:42 |
| valorie | also, their website has many cobwebs on it | 22:42 |
| valorie | suitable for Hallowe'en, even | 22:42 |
| CIA-130 | [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 130 * (bin/klearppa debian/changelog) Added klearppa to clear out the packages in a PPA | 22:47 |
| yofel | needs some error handling, but does its job | 22:47 |
| * yofel is off to bed - good night | 22:47 | |
| JontheEchidna | is that anything like ppa-purge? | 22:51 |
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