[00:08] JontheEchidna: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3118966.0;topicseen they are stalking you now :) [00:09] <.< [00:09] >.> [00:09] *hides* [00:13] I would, have you seen the " is Muon seriously retarded??" thread? [00:13] LOL [00:17] yeah, lol [00:17] that is how I figured out that muon is (still) doing multiarch wrong, but a bug report first would have been nice... [00:21] ahh but the forum peeps seldom want to do that :( [00:21] but then again, i sholuld take the time to assist in that, or do them myself sometimes [04:09] great job with 11.10 running great and looking great :D === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [12:35] hi [12:35] ih [12:36] Goddamn [12:36] Adding entries into KMenu is not working for me in 4.72 [12:36] 4.7.2* can anyone test that out? [12:46] Quintasan: Adding how? Seems to work here. [12:47] ScottK: Like, right click at Kickoff -> 1st option from the menu -> Add new entry -> Try saving [12:49] It shows the percentage bar when saving [12:50] it never displays any number and then it disappears [12:50] and I don't see anything new in menu [12:50] But I get a new desktop file at /home/quintasan/.local/share/applications/ [12:52] I agree. [12:53] shadeslayer: Apparently, there are Plasma Active images for Transformer [12:53] shadeslayer: http://wiki.merproject.com/wiki/Community_Workspace [12:53] ScottK: With what? [12:53] I get the same thing you do. [12:54] Not sure if it worked before though. [12:54] :/ [12:54] It looks like the bug is not looking in the .local dir since the files are there [12:55] ScottK: Once I get a VM running and it occurs there too I will report bugz upstream === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan === yofel_ is now known as yofel [15:59] JontheEchidna: muon rocks dude! seriously ! it's definitively better than synaptics :D [16:05] I have some creavite commons stickers if anyone wants me to bring them to UDS === sheytan_ is now known as sheytan [18:26] hey guys, what do you think about such thing in KDE desktop http://madsheytan.blogspot.com/2011/10/kiedy-dobre-rozwiazania-mogyby-zagoscic.html [19:04] sheytan: I like it, exept the problem, that the activity content (of an other) is not displayable within kwin effect context [19:06] bulldog98: if you use activity and preview your desktop with grid view (kwin plugin) you get all the windows on secific desktop + desktops preview so what's the problem? [19:23] hm, with 4.7.2 in -updates I should be finishing the backports [20:06] [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kde-l10n-common-natty] Philip Muškovac * 104 * debian/ (changelog config) New upstream release (svn: 1256933, type: stable) [20:08] sheytan: "blow their minds" [20:09] not blow them, please [20:09] :-) [20:09] it looks excellent [20:10] I want Activities to go that last mile and be mind-blowingly excellent === jjesse_ is now known as jjesse [20:19] * apachelogger waves fist about activites [20:20] did I mention that I am being payed to conduct fist waving nowadays? [20:20] weeeeeee [20:20] I think I might have discovered my true calling [20:20] * valorie looks forward to more fist-waving [20:20] indeed [20:21] apachelogger - did you hear that we wrote a book? [20:21] like, A BOOK [20:21] sitting next to me [20:22] yes, the intartubes told me [20:22] how many pages? [20:22] does it have nude art? [20:22] about 80 [20:22] nude parallelograms [20:22] right on the cover [20:22] sec [20:22] uh [20:22] a true geeks nude art [20:22] awesome [20:22] 80 pages is like supreme [20:35] when you have a chance, probably like....next year, perhaps you can read and make necessary changes [20:35] we think it's good, but want it to be excellent [20:36] so maybe slightly more nude nudes on the second cover [20:42] wow, bug-fixing and polishing only, it sounds like: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/810 [20:42] valorie: I hear yofel would like to model [20:42] about time there was some focus on that [20:42] oooo [20:42] ah, always them long blog posts -.- [20:42] people only been begging for years for it... [20:42] a volunteer model! [20:42] maco, yes [20:43] AND a call out for accessability again [20:43] there is no bug you can't fix with fist waving [20:43] about time...... [20:43] works every single time [20:43] WHAT??? [20:43] * yofel hits apachelogger with a konqi figure [20:43] awww, yofi, c'mon [20:43] valorie: given the irc meeting between pen & jono, that doesnt actually mean more canonical resources devoted to it...just more going "pretty please will someone volunteer to help with a11y?" on blogs or something, since there are now a total of 3 programmers on a11y team [20:44] oh, ugh [20:44] maco: cool [20:44] 1 being luke who does it part-time for canonical, 1 being pinheiro who i think is a kde guy and got contracted by canonical toward the end of oneiric to do some last minute fixing, and one being yours truly [20:44] otoh, if the programmers were all apachelogger clones...... [20:45] why put monies into it if you can suck free labour out of the communities [20:45] omnomnomnom [20:45] (i say luke part-time because he's a fulltime canonical employee who has to split attention between a11y and audio) [20:45] are you contracting, or ? [20:45] apachelogger: btw, in the responses to jono's survey, someone suggested hiring you [20:45] valorie: no [20:45] so really, 1.5 [20:45] i just occasionally go "are you serious? *sigh* *hack* *poke luke with patch*" [20:45] not 3 [20:46] i meant the entire ubuntu a11y team [20:46] there is no a11y team at canonical, afaik [20:46] good lord [20:46] most of the a11y team is testers, and there are bugs they're finding that none of us know how to fix [20:46] maco: nice, then again nokia was faster even though they were pretty slow :P [20:46] does anyone call out shuttleworth on his ... um, hypocrisy? [20:47] trying to stay family friendly here..... [20:48] but maybe a11y bugs will be given some priority by canonical? [20:48] the release team does give a crap. if i point out feature requests that would have a significant impact on accessibility-tool users to kate, she'll bring them up with the desktop team to try to get them in, even last minute [20:49] there is a rule in bug triaging that a11y bugs are automatically bumped up one notch on importance [20:49] which reminds me [20:49] maco: I think that's true for more people in the release team than just Kate. [20:49] JontheEchidna: we do bug triage, we however do not fix bugs [20:49] I see a fatal flaw there ^^ [20:50] ScottK: im sure, just she's the one i talk to most, so if i mention a thing in passing, she'll push for it [20:50] JontheEchidna: btw, my neighbor <3 muon [20:50] kubuntuforums doesn't :P [20:51] JontheEchidna: actually .... what I came to think of the other day... muon and the installer need a busy indication while it is mapping stuff around [20:51] with many super sized repos it can a bit to load [20:51] what is this muon business? It looks cool. Is it cool? [20:51] it appears to be like kpackagekit but with more features and pretty stuff [20:51] ok, well I am interested in this muon, and wish to subscribe to its newsletter. [20:51] :D [20:52] ScottK: also, i dont actually know which people are also on the release team. i think maybe you are. [20:52] apachelogger: the difference is, triaging bugs often requires much less effort than fixing them :P [20:52] except youre a volunteer so im not sure if you can be [20:52] Yes. I am. [20:52] but i know you have special powers [20:52] There's a number of non-Canonical people on the release team. [20:52] brb, dinner [20:52] volunteers not being able to be on the release team would be a bit rubbish [20:52] 'a bit' [20:53] i wasnt sure if it was an ubuntu team or canonical team [20:53] like the confusion valorie just had about a11y team [20:53] JontheEchidna: yeah, but once Darkwing launches our super tirage team we need to flesh out a work flow for getting stuff done [20:53] as the new super team should free up resources for developers [20:54] myriam/mamarok could be a great resource for that team [20:54] Darkwing: ^^^ [20:54] valorie: a big part of the problem with a11y stuff is the docs are sucky. cjwatson & kate both said theyd like to help out but dont know how. i said i can just sorta kinda muddle through but not enough to teach. [20:54] she totally rocks on Amarok bugs [20:55] that is very true indeed [20:55] maco, nobody is interested in doin good documentation? [20:55] with lots of digging i found a doc that helps with a11y stuff, but a lot of what i was reading was flying over my head too [20:55] "lots of digging" -- that is no good [20:55] valorie: i dont think anyone in ubuntu or canonical knows the stuff well enough to write it. we're depending on upstream docs buried deep in google [20:56] maco: want to write a book with me about it? [20:56] i dont know how to do it [20:56] i know how to assign things in glade [20:56] and how to say that a radio button and label go together [20:56] but we can find people to help [20:57] but just making a window screenreader-happy isnt enough of course [20:57] if we organize, and glop the old stuff into flossmanuals, then we can find people to help make it usable [20:57] the thing i got kate to put on the schedule very late was making it so that searching "accessibility" in unity didnt come up blank. the apps are tagged "accessibility" as a keyword in .desktop but keywords were ignored [20:58] we could make this cross disto [20:58] valorie: if you put nude art on it we could even sell it and make monies to employ someone to actually work on a11y [20:58] and get lots of people helping [20:58] funny fact part of phonon for quite some time had a string mapping of ally [20:58] ^^ [20:58] another job for yofel! [20:58] yofi, you better be hitting the gym hard [20:58] . . . [20:59] * apachelogger should do that too FWIW [20:59] heeee [20:59] * valorie is gonna be making a walking desk Any Day Now [20:59] sick of sitting all day [21:00] husband said he would help with the desk part [21:00] hehe [21:00] what is a walking desk? [21:00] and didn't get angry about the "treadmill in the living room" part [21:00] bonsoir [21:00] treadmill with a desk, basically [21:01] you can walk about 1mph and still read, type, etc [21:01] do that 8 hours per day and you have 8 miles in [21:02] http://www.treadmill-desk.com/ [21:03] anyway, maco, think about it [21:03] and I'll think about it with some people [21:03] it could be a huge help to a11y in the modern FOSS world [21:04] foss used to be a leader [21:04] now we are sorta fusty dusty [21:07] KDE could be a leader now Qt has it, just needs some keen people again [21:07] alas all the KDE people who were keen on accessibility got bored waiting on Qt [21:12] Riddell: the good news is screenreaders Just Work for any K-widget heavily based on a Q-widget [21:12] however, that leaves out Konsole and KHTML [21:15] mm, except that in oneiric qt-at-spi crashes most KDE programmes [21:15] I think I'm going to have an update which has unset QT_ACCESSIBILITY in /usr/bin/startkde [21:16] oh right yes, that bug [21:17] this was mentioned recently... apparently it doesnt crash unity and thats what htey cared most about [21:17] (of course) [21:21] * yofel got a mail asking wether all KDE point releases will now end up in -updates once they're released, not only the updates PPA and then SRU .5 [21:24] considering uploading to -proposed took us over a week for 4.7.2. I would rather keep 4.7.2 an exception... [21:24] although if we really only upload the changed packages it might be doable. Question is by whom [21:28] yofel: we have permission to do it and it would make sense, but it's a question of testing and manpower [21:28] and I suspect we're not high on manpower in the coming months [21:28] (appologies for the possible sexist grammar there, feel free to suggest improvements) [21:29] use a language that doesn't make difference between man and woman :P [21:30] *if* we only package the *changed* packages in the first place, instead of the whole point release, then one could spend more time on Q/A. But that then leads back to the question of how confusing it is to have pieces of the release in several different versions [21:30] maybe yofel can pay someone to do the SRUs if his modelling career takes off ;) [21:30] don't count on that ;P [21:31] although If I only focus on the SRU stuff I guess I could get those done in half a week of so [21:32] one could think of the "what to update" problem anyway thinking that 4.8 will probably have ~90 packages [21:33] 90! [21:33] * debfx sighs [21:33] kdeaccessibility + kdeutils, and 4.7 had ~70 [21:33] we probably need to look at scripting it as much as possible [21:34] we already use scripts for the packaging. Only the backports I never got around to script [21:34] do we? clever us [21:34] * debfx doesn't [21:35] see kubuntu-dev-tools part of https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Ninjas/BuildEnvironment on what scripts we have right now [21:35] * yofel needs to rewrite the release packaging guide one of these days [21:35] we also need some automated QA like running lintian and list-missing automatically [21:35] theres a kubuntu-dev-tools? [21:35] maco: in bzr, as we're really good at forgetting to upload it [21:36] oh [21:36] add a script in it that uploads it! [21:36] heh [21:36] * yofel wonders if one could put daily builds of that somewhere [21:36] guess I could make a PPA for that [21:36] ideally I think we want to be able to throw a release at EC2 and have it build then review the cmake output for missing dependencies, the --list-missing output and the install result [21:37] there are still missing license headers in kubuntu-dev-tools, that's why I've never uploaded it [21:37] true, also some packages have totally useless error output [21:37] Riddell: could you add those to the ec2/ scripts? [21:37] there are ec2 scripts? [21:38] yeah, someone called Jonathan Riddell committed them ;) [21:38] which reminds me I need to write kcleanppa soon, cleaning out a PPA with the LP UI is almost as bad as trying to copy something [21:39] clever him [21:39] ^^ [21:39] yofel: is there an API to clean PPAs? [21:39] I use the ssh interface to that but others don't have access to that [21:40] there *should* be an API to delete packages. So I just need to get all published packages for a PPA and delete every one of them [21:40] after all copying work, so deleting should be there too [21:40] *works [21:48] Riddell: if I rope maco into helping write a book, perhaps we'll draw in those KDE a11y folks again too [21:48] after GCI [21:49] hmm, I'm not sure there are any left [21:49] although we should start soon, so we can start dumping stuff in as we find it/think of it [21:49] Riddell: did they DIE? [21:49] or just go elsewhere [21:49] quite possibly, it's been a long wait [21:49] jpwhiting did a bit recently [21:50] that sucks [21:50] olaf is still on kde/freeqt [21:50] :( [21:50] gunner I haven't heard from and that american bloke had to give it up for his work [21:50] if you think about it, shoot me a list of their names and emails [21:51] so I can ping them once we have something semi-readable [21:53] just use kde-accessibility list [21:54] ok [22:12] hey [22:12] anybody here? [22:13] Uninstall: yep [22:14] ah, skype [22:16] yofel: exactly [22:17] honestly I'm a bit worried about how kubuntu has been released with a similar bug [22:18] you should test your package manager if you replace it [22:18] I mean kpackagekit never tired to install random packages [22:18] while muon does [22:18] uhm... multiarch support was forced by ubuntu and put together hastily for muon so muon isn't totally broken [22:18] I would call that a regression [22:18] random packages o.O? [22:19] yofel: well, I installed skype from software center and it installed libc6-xen [22:19] and honestly I think I was rather lucky [22:20] hm, no idea. I'm not using multiarch and don't have a libc6-xen package here. So that seems multiarch related [22:20] what happens if the random package was something like grub-efi on my non efi system? [22:21] nothing particulary good [22:21] exactly [22:21] so I was lucky with libc6-xen that is rather useless [22:28] The good news is that it's libc6-zen for everybody [22:29] and that the new version of Muon that I'm in the middle of pushing out isn't affected by this issue [22:31] and things were working with 1.2.0 before Ubuntu enable multi-arch in apt after feature freeze, at which point things were tested to have been working [22:42] Riddell: turns out I wasn't subbed to that list, so thank you for the reminder [22:42] also, their website has many cobwebs on it [22:42] suitable for Hallowe'en, even [22:47] [lp:kubuntu-dev-tools] Philip Muškovac * 130 * (bin/klearppa debian/changelog) Added klearppa to clear out the packages in a PPA [22:47] needs some error handling, but does its job [22:47] * yofel is off to bed - good night [22:51] is that anything like ppa-purge?