[03:11] how to delete mysqmail === noy_ is now known as noy === doko_ is now known as doko === MichealH is now known as MH0 === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan === plars-afk is now known as plars === Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth === yofel_ is now known as yofel [13:59] * stgraber waves [14:00] hi [14:00] ok, let's see if we have quorum today ;) [14:00] o/ [14:01] bdrung, cody-somerville, persia, Laney, micahg: ping [14:01] o/ [14:02] stgraber: pong [14:02] yeah! we have quorum :) [14:02] #startmeeting Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting [14:02] Meeting started Mon Oct 24 14:02:35 2011 UTC. The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [14:02] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting Meeting | Current topic: [14:02] * bdrung thought thet the meeting would be at 19 UTC [14:02] #topic Review of previous action items === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting Meeting | Current topic: Review of previous action items [14:03] bdrung: wiki says 14UTC [14:03] stgraber: data corruption in my brain :) [14:03] #topic All members to review "social" application position statement === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting Meeting | Current topic: All members to review "social" application position statement [14:04] based on what I see on the mailing-list, I don't think anyone is against that statement [14:05] though only a limited number of DMB members answered that thread [14:06] http://paste.ubuntu.com/717853/ is the statement in question [14:07] I missed that, but it sounds good to me [14:07] i welcome it too. [14:07] Should we vote on making that official and then have it posted on the wiki so applicants are aware of it? [14:08] * micahg is fine with the statement as well [14:09] I think so, yes [14:09] #vote Publish position statement on "social" application to the wiki [14:09] Please vote on: Publish position statement on "social" application to the wiki [14:09] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [14:09] +1 [14:09] +1 received from stgraber [14:09] +1 [14:09] +1 received from bdrung [14:09] +1 [14:09] +1 received from tumbleweed [14:09] +1 [14:09] +1 received from micahg [14:10] #endvote [14:10] Voting ended on: Publish position statement on "social" application to the wiki [14:10] Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0 [14:10] Motion carried [14:10] #action stgraber to add the position statement on social application at the top of the agenda wiki page [14:10] ACTION: stgraber to add the position statement on social application at the top of the agenda wiki page [14:11] I think that's the best place to put it for now, may move somewhere else once we're sure everyone is aware of it ;) [14:11] as cody-somerville doesn't seem to be around, I'll keep his two action items in the agenda [14:12] #topic Continue discussion about our package set management workflows === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting Meeting | Current topic: Continue discussion about our package set management workflows [14:13] we unfortunately didn't have much time at the last TB meeting to discuss this one [14:13] * geser waves [14:13] so I'd suggest we just keep it in the agenda for our next meeting [14:14] #topic Do we need our own IRC Channel or is #ubuntu-devel enough? === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting Meeting | Current topic: Do we need our own IRC Channel or is #ubuntu-devel enough? [14:14] hey geser [14:14] micahg: your turn ;) [14:15] ok, so there seems to be a lot of people wondering about what qualifies for Developer membership and/or questions about the process, I was wondering if we should have our own channel that's on the smaller side to answer these questions [14:16] micahg: where are these questions currently asked? [14:16] how many requests do you expect? [14:16] all over the place (-motu, -devel, -release), sometimes nowhere [14:17] a central point for questions would be good [14:17] it's the last part that hurts as then people guess and posit sometimes incorrectly [14:18] i think we could give it a try [14:18] I'd actually prefer people to send question to the DMB mailing list or to devel-permissions and in case they actually want real time discussion, ping one of us in #ubuntu-devel. I'm already in more than 40 IRC channels and can only closely monitor a limited subset of that (which #ubuntu-devel is part of) [14:19] yeah, I'm not looking to be part of more channels, and this is already welcome discussion on -motu / -devel [14:19] I don't think there'd currently be a lack of decent replies in either of those places [14:19] stgraber: a smaller channel would be easier to monitor [14:19] I agree that having a documented single point of contact would be good, I just don't think having yet another IRC channel is the right solution to that [14:20] isn't the bigger problem that people don't think to ask? or are too shy to (mind you, then they don't apply) [14:20] yes, but having a place to hop into in ask certainly can make things easier especially when one's workflow for quick questions is already in IRC [14:21] bdrung: not really, I have similar low traffic channels (emea and arb) and I usually end up checking these once a week or so because I don't even remember they exist (wth is channel number 21 again?? :)) [14:21] * micahg rethinks his desire to switch to irssi :) [14:22] what about recommending one channel with a keyword for getting notified? [14:23] I'm also wondering if we shouldn't try to have people join #ubuntu-motu for that kind of question, this may help making people more aware of the social part of being a MOTU [14:24] and people in that channel usually know what to answer to these questions and most/all of us are also in that channel to answer specific questions [14:24] motu does tend to be more social & mentoring than universe-specific, yes. Although that's not obvious from teh name [14:24] motu application questions -> #ubuntu-motu and for the rest #ubuntu-devel? [14:25] I'm actually tempted to say, any upload permissions question => #ubuntu-motu but if you think it'd be a problem, we can probably split that between #ubuntu-devel and #ubuntu-motu [14:26] can we get something like #ubuntu-dmb forwarded to #ubuntu-motu maybe? (a /topic update would be required as well) [14:26] hi there [14:26] sorry i'm late [14:26] * micahg is ok with hijacking -motu for the purpose as long as it's clear to everyone [14:27] micahg: that works for me, and yes I think we should update the topic [14:27] micahg: I'm fine with that too [14:28] * bdrung nods. [14:28] micahg: can I give you an action to update the topic, get the forward setup and update the wiki to point to the IRC channel? [14:28] stgraber: sure [14:29] what topic? [14:29] #ubuntu-motu [14:29] to say what? [14:30] I'd prefer #ubuntu-devel as the point of contact as the persons writing the testimonials should be familiar enough with the process to answer many questions an applicant might have about the process (#ubuntu-more is more quiet this days and only a few core-devs hang there around) [14:30] laney: we were discussing using #ubuntu-motu to field DMB questions so we don't have to have yet another IRC channel [14:30] yeah, I know, I just don't know what you want to put in the topic [14:31] I would just put it on the wiki page that either channel is fine [14:31] geser: should be? yes, but historically (at least recent history), I don't think that's been the case [14:33] micahg: the amount of core-devs in #ubuntu-motu? [14:33] geser: no, testimonial writers fielding questions [14:33] at least one ;) [14:34] bdrung: at least 2 :) (see #chair) [14:34] i doubt it requires core-dev attention specifically, and redirecting people isn't worth the effort if there are people in -motu who can answer [14:34] micahg: the testimonials writers answering simple questions about the process [14:34] you don't need a DMB for those questions (e.g. when to apply) [14:34] * DMB member [14:35] but I don't mind if #-motu or #-devel [14:35] geser: indeed, I was able to answer most questions before I was a member, but still, sometimes people want an "official" answer [14:36] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard?action=diff&rev2=28&rev1=27 ? [14:36] for an official answer, the channel should probably be -devel, unless it's a DMB member answering it [14:36] Laney: lgtm [14:37] micahg: we could add a highlight on "dmb"/ "DMB" to our IRC clients to get attention from a DMB member in #-devel [14:37] or put !dmb into the bot [14:37] or that [14:38] Laney: +1 let's go with that for now. Adding !dmb to the bot would be a good extra too. [14:38] ok [14:38] indeed, but -devel can get noisy at times, but let's try it, if it's not working, we can do something else [14:38] let's try it and see how it works [14:39] many people leave a channel if they don't get a timely answer and having an own channel where we see the question hours after they left (bad hour of the day) then the channel doesn't help them [14:39] #action Laney to update the wiki to point applicants to #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-motu for questions and add a "dmb" keyword in the bot calling all the DMB members [14:39] ACTION: Laney to update the wiki to point applicants to #ubuntu-devel or #ubuntu-motu for questions and add a "dmb" keyword in the bot calling all the DMB members [14:39] stgraber: just a reminder, Ubuntu friendly meeting in 20 minutes and last time I ran over :) [14:39] geser: -motu is the better place on weekends [14:39] micahg: yeah, I don't plan on discussing the new package set so we should be good [14:40] #topic Creation of new desktop-extra package set (time permitting and if no one minds the late addition) === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting Meeting | Current topic: Creation of new desktop-extra package set (time permitting and if no one minds the late addition) [14:40] we don't really have time and I only got aware of it 5 minutes before the meeting, postponed to next meeting (Nov 7) [14:40] #topic Ubuntu Core Developer Applications - Brian Murray === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Core Developer Applications - Brian Murray [14:40] * geser has to leave now [14:41] bdmurray: you're up [14:41] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrianMurray/CoreDevApplication [14:41] * bdmurray waves [14:43] I completely forgot to add a testimonial to that wiki page... So for the record, I've been sponsoring a few of bdmurray's uploads, mostly adding apport hooks. They all were fine and could be uploaded as-is. [14:44] stgraber: thanks for that [14:44] bdmurray: you are very experienced on specific topics (e.g. package hooks). what have you done outside your comfort zone? [14:44] bdrung: as a part of the patch piloting process I review and upload code other than apport package hooks. [14:45] bdrung: and forward those patches to debian and upstream where appropriate [14:45] bdmurray: something I was wondering about these apport hooks, are there plans on forwarding these in Debian/upstream to reduce the merging effort on Ubuntu's side? [14:46] bdmurray: do you have experience with syncing/merging from Debian? [14:47] stgraber: no and actually there has been some discussion about creating a different way for installing the apport hooks as SRUs for them are awkward [14:47] bdrung: a very little bit [14:48] bdmurray: that's an impressive set of endorsements [14:48] I was rather suprised to see no mention of uploads until the endorsements :P [14:48] tumbleweed: what do you mean? [14:48] impressive set, but they are all connected to apport hooks [14:49] the application mostly talks about work, not related to upload rights [14:50] bdmurray: do you have any inherent interests outside of apport hooks/bug related packages? [14:50] bdrung: I've done some work on base-files that isn't apport hook specific [14:51] NOTE: I'm going to allow 4 more minutes for questions, then call the vote as we're starting to run out of time [14:51] micahg: I'm primarily interested in the bug reporting process but I am also interested in package management, upgrades and making fixes available for stable releases via SRUs. [14:52] bdmurray: you say you intend to do more work updating some packages you care about. Any reason why you haven't started that yet? [14:53] tumbleweed: just the age old problem of time ;-) [14:53] * Laney notes that improving QA is a fine reason for people wanting upload rights, and would like to see it generalised to other types of QA work (piuparts springs to mind) [14:53] yeah, that one bites us all [14:53] piuparts :) [14:54] * tumbleweed is done with questions [14:54] bdmurray: do you plan to do sync or merges in the future? [14:54] * micahg too [14:55] speaking of time, it's now time to vote :) [14:55] bdrung: yes I am definitely interested in doing those in the future and would ask questions if I run into any issues. [14:55] #startvote Brian Murray application for Core Dev [14:55] #vote Brian Murray application for Core Dev [14:55] Please vote on: Brian Murray application for Core Dev [14:55] Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me) [14:56] +1 [ Great work on apport hooks and SRUing them, hope to see even more of them in the future ] [14:56] +1 [ Great work on apport hooks and SRUing them, hope to see even more of them in the future ] received from stgraber [14:56] +1 // Who am I to overrule those testimonials? :-) [14:56] +1 // Who am I to overrule those testimonials? :-) received from Laney [14:57] +1 [14:57] +1 received from tumbleweed [14:58] +1 bdmurray has a focussed knowledge about qa topics. he will not do harm when working work outside that comfort zone. [14:58] +1 bdmurray has a focussed knowledge about qa topics. he will not do harm when working work outside that comfort zone. received from bdrung [14:58] quick! [14:58] +0, While I think the SRUing and apport hooks are great, it all seems to be centralized in one area (aside from the sponsored patches), I'd like to see more work outside this area [14:58] +0, While I think the SRUing and apport hooks are great, it all seems to be centralized in one area (aside from the sponsored patches), I'd like to see more work outside this area received from micahg [14:58] * Laney has an AOB [14:58] #endvote [14:58] Voting ended on: Brian Murray application for Core Dev [14:58] Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1 [14:58] Motion carried [14:58] bdmurray: congrats! [14:58] :-) [14:58] congrats bdmurray [14:58] Thanks everyone [14:59] #action stgraber to add bdmurray to the core dev team [14:59] ACTION: stgraber to add bdmurray to the core dev team [14:59] #topic Select a chair for the next meeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Developer Membership Board meeting Meeting | Current topic: Select a chair for the next meeting [14:59] apparently we chose to go with alphabetical order, so next up is bdrung [14:59] see you all in two weeks! [14:59] bdmurray: congrats. i wouldn't have hesitated if you had done more work outside your comfort zone [14:59] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [14:59] Meeting ended Mon Oct 24 14:59:40 2011 UTC. [14:59] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-24-14.02.moin.txt [14:59] erm [15:00] stgraber: alphabetical in which direction? ;) [15:00] I was going to ask if I should go ahead and register the session at UDS [15:00] bdrung: according to LP, I'm the last one in the list ;) [15:00] bdrung: I used: https://launchpad.net/~developer-membership-board/+members#active [15:00] * tumbleweed just sneaked in there [15:00] stgraber: we could go upwards ;) [15:00] hi everyone, ready for the UF Squad meeting? [15:01] bdrung: doing it the same way as the TB so I don't get confused ;) [15:01] Laney: sounds good, do it ASAP as slots at UDS are pretty hard to get apparently [15:02] #startmeeting Ubuntu Friendly Squad [15:02] Meeting started Mon Oct 24 15:02:08 2011 UTC. The chair is brendand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [15:02] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly Squad Meeting | Current topic: [15:02] hello! [15:02] hi [15:02] hey :) [15:02] The agenda for today is: [15:02] Scoring system - jedimike [15:02] AOB [15:02] #topic Scoring system - jedimike === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly Squad Meeting | Current topic: Scoring system - jedimike [15:03] o/ [15:03] jedimike - proceed :) [15:03] currently, the rules for rejection and failure of submissions are this: [15:03] * If you skip all tests in a core category, we reject the submission [15:03] * If you skip an individual test in a core category that required external hardware that not everyone might have (writable media, for example), we ignore that test and apply a penalty to the score, but still allow that category to pass if all other tests pass [15:03] * If you skip an individual test in a core category that you should have ran, we fail the category and score the system 1 star [15:03] That last rule seems far too harsh. I think that skipping an individual test in a core category that we don't allow you to skip should result in the submission being rejected, as we have a lot of 1 star systems that are only 1 star because someone skipped a test. [15:03] 251 systems, to be precise [15:04] o/ [15:04] .. [15:04] ara - go ahead [15:04] I agree that we should change 3rd rule to reject the submission [15:04] if a non-skippable test was skipped [15:05] o/ [15:05] and I would put something in the particpate page to make things clearer [15:05] .. [15:05] back to you jedimike [15:06] I'd also put something in that intermediate "report a problem" page that says, "Can't find your results?" and explains why we reject submissions, and directs them towards either results tracker, or where we need them to look, to view their submission [15:06] .. [15:06] o/ [15:07] ara - shoot [15:07] yes, I agree. I think that we don't need to be really fancy on letting people know exactly why it was rejected [15:07] a nice explanation of the basics should be fine [15:08] and yes ,that explanation should be at Participate and Report a problem [15:08] o/ [15:08] not sure if pointing to the submissions is needed, though [15:08] .. [15:09] o/ [15:09] just a quick piece, to say that in the long term if we could enforce running of the tests through the checkbox UI that would be nice [15:09] .. [15:09] roadmr - go ahead [15:09] we should make sure that reasons for rejecting submissions are made abundantly clear [15:09] o/ [15:09] we already see people wondering why their submissions take so long to appear in UF [15:09] so if we just start "eating" them there's bound to be some complaints [15:10] it goes to being as transparent as possible [15:10] o/ [15:10] ideally I'd like to see checkbox say "this submission is not UF-complete so it'll be rejected" or something to the point (i.e. instant feedback) but it may not be possible to do :( [15:10] still this is something to be looked into, for transparency's sake. [15:10] .. [15:10] o/ [15:10] cr3 - your turn [15:10] brendand: dude, I want to write a testing game! seriously though, it doesn't really need to contribute to UF though but might be nice :) [15:11] .. [15:11] ok, after that, back to ara [15:11] not jedimike? [15:11] jedimike it is [15:11] cr3 - you're right [15:11] jedimike? [15:12] brendand: /unignore jedimike :) [15:12] I agree with roadmr that we do need something to tell the users at least which of their submissions made it and which didn't [15:12] we don't need to break down scores or anything [15:12] but it might improve the quality of submissions [15:12] if we were able to say "X submission didn't get accepted because you skipped audio/xyz" [15:13] and it would cut out the "why didnt my results get listed" questions totally" [15:13] .. [15:13] ara, your turn (and apologies to jedimike) [15:14] so, I agree with roadmr, but those are ideas for 12.04 LTS, when we improve the UI [15:14] but we need to take them into account, of course [15:15] with the UI changes we can make a much better work in letting people know what they have to run for the submission to be accepted in UF [15:15] o/ [15:15] for now, an explanation of what is a core category and how it works might help [15:15] .. [15:15] jedimike, go ahead [15:16] if we're not going to make the submissions available to the users through UF, can I put in a feature request for results tracker so that a user's test runs are linked to from their page on there? [15:16] .. [15:17] o/ [15:18] we need to remember that even though ubuntu-friendly is in beta, if we don't keep things transparent we risk creating frustration for users [15:18] o/ [15:19] one challenge i think we have is that we are able to update UF pretty much as we want, but not the source of the tests (i.e. checkbox) [15:20] so we need to avoid making changes in UF which really require support from checkbox [15:20] this is one of those i think [15:20] ... [15:20] jedimike - you can go now [15:20] oops sorry I am late [15:21] akgraner - no problem. we're discussing a possible change to the scoring system. [15:21] * akgraner catches up [15:22] akgraner - thanks [15:22] jedimike? [15:22] just to say, transparency is good :) and at the moment it's not clear if your submission has made it or not, and I think if it's possible to make that change on results track to link the user's page to their test submissions it would help (even helps me respons to bug reports!) [15:22] .. [15:22] o/ [15:22] o/ [15:23] akgraner - you go first [15:23] Is ther anyway to say - not let the skipped question count against the over scoring and not somewhere that these scores don't include skipped questions [15:24] overall scoring I meant [15:24] ... [15:25] I mean I might have skipped a test just b/c I didn't have a USB stick handy that doesn't mean it didn't pass [15:25] akgraner - the issue is that, at the moment tests like the audio ones are skippable. and it seems a lot of people are skipping them. but if we only have one submission for a system then we need to make a call about what that means. [15:25] me needs to leave now [15:26] bye ara [15:26] * ara will read the minutes tomorrow [15:26] cheers [15:26] * brendand continues [15:26] brendand, I go back and re-do the test for the ones I skip once I find all my stuff :-) [15:26] o/ [15:27] we don't want to say that a skipped test means that the component must work, but neither can we say for sure that it means it doesn't [15:27] so the best thing to do is probably to not accept these submissions at all [15:27] but some people don't have external monitors [15:27] so you would disregard their test on that one point [15:28] akgraner - but for tests which need special equipment we already have a different rule, so your system can still get a good score if you didn't test external monitor or usb [15:28] o/ [15:28] ah ok :-) [15:28] akgraner: if a test requires special equipment, like a USB stick or external monitor, we allow people to skip it without failing that component [15:29] .. [15:29] jedimike - you can go ahead now [15:29] gotcha - sorry I didn't know that. /me is quiet now :-) [15:29] was just going to say that :) and that we need to make that clear on the participate page [15:30] and implement what ara said about making it clear that if you skip tests that don't require external equipment [15:30] your submission may not be included in the site [15:30] .. [15:31] akgraner - an example of a test you *can't* skip is audio/alsa_record_playback_internal, since it doesn't require extra equipment [15:31] cr3, your turn [15:31] if I understand correctly, skippable tests may affect scoring between 3-5, but non-skippable tests are those that may affect scoring between 1-3 [15:31] I think someone made a point that non-skippable tests should be enforced in the checkbox UI so that people don't get surprised with a crappy score between 1-3 [15:31] .. [15:31] cr3 - that was me :) [15:31] cr3 - but the problem is we'd need to SRU that change in [15:32] o/ [15:32] brendand: oneiric is beta, it could be argued that we're really targeting precise with the ultimate ninja solution [15:33] actually, if i could expand on this. i'm not sure i feel too awesome about the 'skippable''ness of tests being encoded in the u-f site itself [15:33] it should really be encoded in checkbox [15:34] .. [15:35] it seems that most people agree we need to reject submissions that don't have all the tests run that must be run [15:36] the question is to what extent do we guide the users about this? [15:36] ideal would be to enforce it in checkbox, but in the short term it needs to be stated on the UF website [15:36] but... [15:37] it's important to remember that the assumption that everyone will engage with UF directly through the site is probably wrong [15:37] so some users may not even read the participate page [15:37] ... [15:38] o/ [15:38] akgraner - go ahead [15:39] brendand, your assumption is right - many people find out about system testing on their computer, run the test, *then* find out about the site [15:40] and I know a people who never read documentation (sadly) but it does happen... [15:40] o/ [15:40] * brendand points to self [15:40] cr3 - your turn [15:41] it would be nice to see the number of submissions to launchpad before and after ubuntu friendly was announced, there was already a large number of submissions coming in before probably from people just discovering checkbox and running it for the heck of it [15:41] .. [15:42] cr3 - indeed [15:43] brendand: modulo hardware certification submissions, of course :) [15:45] brendand: is it time for aob? [15:45] seems like everyone is done on this topic [15:45] #topic AOB === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Friendly Squad Meeting | Current topic: AOB [15:46] AOB? [15:46] o/ [15:47] cr3 - yep [15:47] checkbox needs tests for gremlins because they've been misbehaving in my computer lately :) [15:47] .. [15:47] #action cr3 to add gremlins/detect to checkbox [15:47] ACTION: cr3 to add gremlins/detect to checkbox [15:48] "Does your gremlin have a shiny coat, and I don't mean a pimp coat!" [15:49] o/ [15:49] roadmr - is this still about gremlins? [15:49] nope [15:50] roadmr - then please, go ahead :) [15:50] heheh, just wanted to get a feel for how useful people think the number of "raters" is in the UF front page [15:50] between 1 and 10, I'd say 11 :) [15:51] ... basically just that, should that information be available at a glance, or is it ok to move it to the system's detail page for instance? [15:51] .. [15:52] roadmr - i think it depends on whether people are using it the way we imagine they would (i.e. to get an idea of how 'reliable' the results are) [15:53] hmm maybe at some point we could conduct a poll on how useful people visiting UF think each bit of information is [15:54] maybe at UDS? [15:54] I was thinking something like those "would you like to answer a poll to help improve our site?" - to get a feel from normal, average users [15:54] I think the UDS crowd may be too biased towards preferring a lot of information :) [15:55] roadmr: maybe it can be used as an excuse to make people aware of the site in the first place [15:55] roadmr - i hate those things :) but yeah, you're right it should be from normal site users [15:55] roadmr: although, since ara will be making a presentation, everyeone will innevitably know about it. maybe ask her to announce the poll? [15:55] cr3: that too! and to encourage a bit more participation, which is always good [15:56] I think that deserves an action item for ara if we all agree a poll would be useful. I don't see how it could hurt [15:57] from the little usability testing I've done, it's been tremendously useful [15:57] if anyone intends to prepare some usability testing sessions, you might like to read: Rocket Surgery Made Easy [15:58] we'd have to have the poll ready before UDS (i.e. in about 10 days) [15:58] ... and don't let jedimike run the session otherwise he'll jedi mind trick everyone to say what he wants to hear :) [15:59] who'd like to prepare some questions? [16:00] considering we're nearly out of time, i propose cr3 [16:00] brendand: I thought jedimike would be better placed for writing the questions, no? [16:00] jedimike - do you want to do that? [16:01] brendand: yeah [16:01] #action jedimike to prepare a small usability survey about the site [16:01] ACTION: jedimike to prepare a small usability survey about the site [16:01] ok, i think our time here is up [16:01] thanks everyone for your participation [16:02] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [16:02] Meeting ended Mon Oct 24 16:01:59 2011 UTC. [16:02] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-24-15.02.moin.txt [16:02] thanks! === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch [16:59] o/ [17:00] hello [17:01] so, let's get started [17:01] #startmeeting [17:01] Meeting started Mon Oct 24 17:01:08 2011 UTC. The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [17:01] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [17:01] ±o [17:01] argh [17:01] \o [17:01] heh [17:01] The meeting agenda can be found at: [17:01] jdstrand: no comment [17:01] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting [17:01] [TOPIC] Announcements === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements [17:01] UDS next week. In lieu of our weekly meeting, please consider participating remotely. For details, see http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p [17:01] [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report [17:01] I'll go first [17:02] so, I'm on community this week [17:02] I've got some pending updates [17:02] UDS preparation [17:03] and continued QRT testing as I have time. This got backburnered as a started looking at our old bugs [17:03] that's it from me [17:03] mdeslaur: you're next [17:03] I'm currently testing a couple of embargoed issues [17:03] and have more stuff in the PPA to test, as time permits [17:03] I have some UDS stuff to do [17:03] and have to prepare my UDS laptop [17:03]