[00:05] <hux_> my intel card not picked up. Worked with mint
[00:12] <hux_> Hello
[00:12] <hux_> can someone help with intel drivers please?
[00:17] <hux_> Does anyone respond in this channel? I've asked questions since installing Ocelot w/o anyone answering.
[00:18] <hux_> Easy enough questions. So someone should know
[00:19] <ali1234> it's 1AM. everyone is sleeping
[00:19] <hux_> lol
[00:20] <hux_> I'm on night shift. Give 'em a nudge for me
[00:20] <ali1234> try #ubuntu
[00:20] <ali1234> it's global
[00:20] <hux_> lol It's a quagmire
[00:20] <ali1234> what card is it?
[00:21] <hux_> intel mobile 845 I think
[00:21] <ali1234> wifi?
[00:21] <ali1234> i845 is a motherboard chipset
[00:22] <hux_> mobile atm or wifi usually
[00:22] <ali1234> it's some weird combo card?
[00:23] <hux_> It worked fine with mint. I'm just not sure of my way round unity yet. Used to synaptic to check
[00:23] <ali1234> what makes you think it is not "picked up"
[00:24] <hux_> Even tho under mint it didn't show up unser additional drivers
[00:24] <hux_>  No wobbly windows lol
[00:24] <ali1234> i'm still not clear on what it is
[00:24] <ali1234> so it's graphics driver?
[00:24] <hux_> Can I install synaptic?
[00:24] <ali1234> yes
[00:24] <hux_> yea
[00:25] <ali1234> ubuntu doesn't have wobbly windows any more
[00:25] <hux_> I've added CSSM
[00:26] <hux_> I was going to fix the launcher bar to not autohide but it won't let me
[00:27] <ali1234> echo $DESKTOP_SESSION
[00:27] <ali1234> what does it say?
[00:28] <hux_> in terminal?
[00:28] <ali1234> yes
[00:30] <hux_>  'echo $DESKTOP_SESSION' = no response
[00:30] <ali1234> try again
[00:31] <hux_> is that the command 'echo $DESKTOP_SESSION' ?
[00:32] <ali1234> yes
[00:32] <hux_> UBUNTU
[00:32] <hux_> *ubuntu
[00:33] <hux_> is that the 3D desktop
[00:33] <ali1234> yes
[00:34] <hux_> hm wonder why I can't get autohide to stay off then or turn on wobbly windows
[00:34] <ali1234> probably it switched to fallback mode
[00:34] <hux_> how can I tell?
[00:34] <ali1234> i don't know
[00:34] <ali1234> is the lancher transparent?
[00:35] <hux_> np thanks al11234
[00:35] <hux_> ali1234,
[00:35] <hux_> I'll get a que ticket for #ubuntu lol
[00:36] <ali1234> if it says ubuntu, that means you are running unity 3d
[00:36] <ali1234> that means your graphics driver works correctly
[00:37] <ali1234> and there's no reason why it wouldn't, since it is intel
[01:00] <hux_> ali1234,  Got wobbly windows on and autohide off :)
[01:00] <ali1234> cool
[01:00] <hux_> thanx 4 ur help :)
[01:00] <hux_> I just had to go back into cssm settings again
[06:58] <AlanBell> morning all
[07:03] <MartijnVdS> \o
[07:22] <DJones> Morning all
[07:24] <DJones> AlanBell: They were talking about this on the news this morning, I wondered if there was anything that could be used/linked into an ubuntu hour somewhere http://raceonline2012.org/giveanhour (With it being raceonline, you may have already picked up on it)
[07:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Survey Results - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/24/ubuntu-community-survey-results/
[07:28] <freakyclown> is there a nice simple gui way to set the hdd in a lappy running 11.10 to spin down?
[07:28] <daubers> Morning
[07:28]  * daubers has just flicked through Jonos survey results
[07:29] <daubers> The graph on page 7 is a bit worrying
[07:40] <DJones> daubers: Have you got a link for the graph, I missed the link on twitter
[07:40] <DJones> sorry, link for the survey
[07:41] <AlanBell> freakyclown: tinker with the hdparm options -S and -B
[07:42] <AlanBell> I love the hdparm man page
[07:42] <freakyclown> yeah i saw that as an option - wondered if there was a funky built in option yet
[07:42] <AlanBell> "VERY  DANGEROUS,  DON'T  EVEN THINK ABOUT USING IT."
[07:43] <freakyclown> yeah ;)
[07:43] <AlanBell> "This is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS  and will  very  likely  cause massive loss of data.  DO NOT USE THIS COMMAND.
[07:43] <AlanBell> stuff you really want to see in a man page :)
[07:43] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: at least it's honest
[07:45] <AlanBell> freakyclown: there probably should be a simple GUI for it that doesn't expose the really scary options
[07:51] <freakyclown> AlanBell: i can wait while you make one kthnx
[07:51] <freakyclown> :)
[07:53] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:57] <AlanBell> sudo hdparm -S1 -B1 /dev/sda
[07:57] <freakyclown> what about noflushd?
[07:57] <AlanBell> that should basically shut it down every 5 seconds of doing nothing, you can change the numbers to be less agressive
[07:59] <AlanBell> freakyclown: noflushd doesn't like ext3
[08:00] <AlanBell> or other journaling filesystems
[08:00] <freakyclown> k
[08:00] <AlanBell> not sure how much it really helps on your boot drive anyway
[08:00] <freakyclown> me either
[08:00] <AlanBell> I use the hdparm spindown on a disk mounted on a server that does backups
[08:01] <freakyclown> so why S1 and B1?
[08:01] <freakyclown> as in why those numbers?
[08:01] <AlanBell> the server (little home server) boots from an SD card and is no moving parts most of the day, but at night the HDD spins up
[08:02] <AlanBell> S1 means 5 seconds S2 is 10 seconds and bigger numbers mean longer time but it isn't in constant increments
[08:02] <AlanBell> I found S did nothing at all unless B was activated which is the general power management setting
[08:03] <AlanBell> B sets the APM_level
[08:04] <AlanBell> S1 is probably too agressive, the thing will be constantly spinning up and down
[08:04] <AlanBell> but it means you don't have long to wait to hear it working
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> Isn't there a "put my disk to sleep" option in the power management menu?
[08:05] <MartijnVdS> because there used to be
[08:06] <AlanBell> can't see one
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> another "feature" removed for Gnome 3
[08:06] <freakyclown> well it powered down - then almost immediatly back up
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> freakyclown: it spins back up every time you access the disk, of course
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> freakyclown: that's why the 5-second delay is too short -- it'll damage the disk a lot by constantly spinning up/down
[08:07] <freakyclown> yeah im thinking 5seconds is too short too ;)
[08:07] <MartijnVdS> Just keeping it on the default setting should be fine -- afaik the laptop-scripts put the disk in sleep-after-a-while mode if you unplug
[08:08] <freakyclown> ah i see what keeps waking it up - logging on pidgin bugger :(
[08:09] <AlanBell> yeah, that kind of thing goes on all the time
[08:09] <freakyclown> utterly wank as i cant disable logging on work rooms
[08:09] <AlanBell> there is always something that wants to write somewhere
[08:09] <freakyclown> thats what i thought the noflushd thing solved
[08:09] <AlanBell> log to something solid state
[08:10] <AlanBell> sd card or USB
[08:10] <freakyclown> i cant it has to be a hardware encrypted drive
[08:10] <AlanBell> ah, ok
[08:11] <AlanBell> maybe a non-journalled partition
[08:11] <MartijnVdS> freakyclown: replace the disk with an SSD - those do hardware crypto
[08:11] <MartijnVdS> they also don't spin up/down ever ;)
[08:14] <freakyclown> does anyone know that guy? ^tmb?
[08:14] <freakyclown> i work with a tmb!
[08:15] <AlanBell> context?
[08:15] <DJones> freakyclown: whois says "Timothy Miles-Board"
[08:16] <freakyclown> AlanBell: rofl NO hate those guys
[08:16] <vauxhall> Has anyone had any trouble booting ubuntu 11.10 lately?
[08:16] <freakyclown> vauxhall: yes since i installed it ;)
[08:17] <vauxhall> freakyclown: ^^ ...I've installed it as well, but sometimes it freezes during boot..
[08:18] <vauxhall> here's how i've set it up...i've installed ubuntu in an 80Gig partition on my second hard-drive...
[08:18] <freakyclown> http://thegreyhats.blogspot.com/
[08:19] <vauxhall> and grub is installed on my first(primary) harddrive..
[08:19] <freakyclown> see if it falls into any of those issues
[08:20] <vauxhall> freakyclown: nope
[08:20] <vauxhall> freakyclown: its just that it gets to grub..and i get a purple screen after that.
[08:31] <bigcalm> Morning awake things :)
[08:32] <DJones> Its monday, we're not awake
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> awhatnow?
[08:37] <bigcalm> Well, I was hoping
[08:37] <JamesTait> Happy morning, everyone! :D
[08:45] <daubers> DJones: Sorry, had a meeting http://t.co/sdyJKAnO :)
[08:45] <DJones> daubers: No worries, mr google found it for
[09:09] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:10] <DJones> Fred0: /join #defocus
[09:10] <DJones> Grr
[09:13]  * bigcalm blurs DJones
[09:14] <popey> Good morning.
[09:14] <bigcalm> Ho popey
[09:16] <DJones> bigcalm: I'm blurred enough today
[09:21] <MartijnVdS> DJones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIEsmGzo2UE
[09:21] <DJones> Ugh, Never liked them
[09:22] <MartijnVdS> DJones: ah, you're from the Oasis camp? :)
[09:22] <DJones> MartijnVdS: Nope, don't like them either :)
[09:24] <DJones> MartijnVdS: I have a wierd & varied musical taste, ranges from Old Lady Driver, Slayer, Nick Cave up to opera & classical :) But just quite picking about what gets my attention
[09:26] <MartijnVdS> DJones: I like lots of different kinds of music too, but somehow my CD shelves fill up with singer/songwriters (both male and female) :)
[09:29] <MartijnVdS> Though I've decided this is a Turin Brakes morning :)
[09:37] <gordonjcp> morning
[09:38] <gordonjcp> what's the Unity equivalent of the Gnome "Places" menu?
[09:38] <gordonjcp> or rather, how do I mount a remote SMB share without resorting to the command-line?
[09:39] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: connect to, in nautillus's file menu.

[09:40] <gordonjcp> the what?
[09:40] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: nautilus is your gui file manager, if you go into its file menu, you will see a connect to function.
[09:41] <gordonjcp> I ran nautilus but it just gave me a window with some squares
[09:41] <gordonjcp> ah, hang on, Mac menu
[09:42] <brobostigon> gordonjcp: you will see uits function menu below its windows controls.
[09:42] <brobostigon> ah, sorry, global menu, yes.
[09:43] <gordonjcp> I'm giving Ubuntu a shot for a week *without* fixing the problems
[09:43] <brobostigon> ah.
[09:43] <gordonjcp> so far I've found the window buttons being on the wrong side to be merely annoying in a "wash the windows at every junction" way
[09:44] <gordonjcp> and the Mac menu to be at best horribly confusing and at worst totally unusable
[09:44] <gordonjcp> and the mac dock thing on the left with all the squares isn't exactly fun either
[09:44] <brobostigon> the global menu, yes, i have heard several such issues.
[09:44]  * MartijnVdS grabs a bunch of torches and pitchforks, throws a few to gordonjcp and brobostigon 
[09:44] <gordonjcp> if I wanted to use OSX I'd use OSX
[09:44] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :(
[09:45] <gordonjcp> I don't want to use OSX because it's a badly-designed pile of weirdness
[09:45] <gordonjcp> turning it through 90 degrees doesn't help
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Well, you need those before marching to the Canonical HQ right?
[09:45] <shauno> I wouldn't mind the global menu, if the autohide thing was an option.  pretending it's not there is aweful for muscle-memory
[09:45] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: need what?
[09:45] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: torches and pitchforks
[09:45] <nymwar> I don't like the hidden global menu.  Too much mouse dragging and confusion when there are multiple windows.  Currently I'm using Gnome shell.
[09:45] <oimon> thinking of getting a front porch and my neighbours porch encroaches onto my property by about 6 inches where i would like to place my porch...what to do i wonder
[09:46] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: no, not needed. to uncivilised.
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> I've just uninstalled all the global menu bits
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> Unity works fine without
[09:46] <nymwar> Didn't know you could uninstall it.
[09:46] <oimon> you can disable it without uninstalling anything
[09:46] <MartijnVdS> dpkg --purge appmenu-{gtk{,3},qt} firefox-globalmenu thunderbird-globalmenu
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> oimon: that doesn't work for me though. Uninstalling does.
[09:47] <oimon> MartijnVdS: what did you try? echo "export UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=" > /etc/X11/Xsession.d/81ubuntumenuproxy ?
[09:47] <MartijnVdS> oimon: same, but to 99local
[09:47] <gordonjcp> I wish in the app menu windows key thing the squares were smaller and the text was bigger
[09:57] <davmor2> morning all
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> \o davmor2
[09:58] <MooDoo> hi davmor2
[10:00] <davmor2> Ah finally tickets for the train got for Wednesday getting ready to rumble
[10:01] <davmor2> morning MartijnVdS MooDoo how are you both
[10:02] <MooDoo> davmor2: yeah not bad thanks
[10:02] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod, wake up, prod, Oi, prod, Wakey Wakey!
[10:03] <oimon> who looks after http://ubuntu-uk.org/ircstats/ ? i don't think it is active
[10:03] <MooDoo> oimon: last generated this morning
[10:03] <popey> Statistics generated on Monday 24 October 2011 - 9:55:03
[10:03] <MooDoo> what he said
[10:04] <oimon> i don't know if it's accurately gettin gth elogs thogh
[10:04] <Laney> seems like a rather small number of lines
[10:04] <Laney> was it reset?
[10:04]  * popey checks it
[10:05] <oimon> i pressed refresh from an older time, and none of the lines changed except for the update time
[10:07] <popey> Session Close: Wed Sep 14 05:03:36 2011
[10:07] <popey> that'll be why
[10:08] <oimon> the logbot?
[10:09] <popey> the statbot
[10:09] <dwatkins> Statistics generated on Monday 24 October 2011 - 9:55:03
[10:09] <dwatkins> ah right, the log it's working on ends earlier
[10:10] <popey> should come back soon
[10:10] <popey> there we are
[10:10] <popey> :D
[10:10] <popey> hmmmm
[10:12] <popey> its not logging, which is odd
[10:12] <bigcalm> Disc space?
[10:12] <bigcalm> Permissions?
[10:12] <bigcalm> Sun spots?
[10:12] <oimon> max file size?
[10:13] <bigcalm> The cause of the problem is:
[10:13] <bigcalm> static from nylon underwear
[10:14] <oimon> saw popey's brother on QI the other day
[10:15] <bigcalm> Elvis?
[10:16] <bigcalm> I like this one "disks spinning backwards - toggle the hemisphere jumper"
[10:16] <oimon> ross noble
[10:16] <popey> how odd, just wont log
[10:17] <oimon> strace?
[10:20] <oimon> Netflix is to launch a streaming service in the UK and the Irish Republic next year.
[10:20] <popey> not sure I care enough oimon :D
[10:20] <oimon> just in time for the linux client \o/
[10:20] <oimon> popey: don't blame you
[10:21] <oimon> i had a power cut @ weekend..all servers went down after UPS drained
[10:25] <bigcalm> Grrr. There's a DD on my account that just shows up as a DD. The company it is for will show up tomorrow, but that's a whole day of wondering I have to endure
[10:26] <bigcalm> Oh. PayPal
[10:26] <bigcalm> Weird
[10:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: Ummm D'oh!
[10:31] <bigcalm> I'm used to PayPal using my creditcard, but recently I reverted to using my main account
[10:32] <davmor2> bigcalm: I meant more the fact that they named it DD
[10:33] <davmor2> bigcalm: Not the most helpful thing in the world :)
[10:34] <bigcalm> davmor2: the transaction is showing as being done today, the full statement version will be visible tomorrow
[10:34] <davmor2> bigcalm: Ah okay
[10:36] <hoover> hi all
[10:36] <davmor2> hoover: morning
[10:36] <bigcalm> Howdy hoovie
[10:36] <hoover> Hi Biggie, davmor2
[10:37] <KrisDouglas> Hello, I know this is a rather petty question, but is there a way to stop the window controls from "auto-hiding" on Ubuntu, it's really quite counter-intuitive.
[10:40] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/25789/is-there-a-way-to-remove-maximized-window-controls-title-from-top-panel-in-unity
[10:42] <KrisDouglas> popey, even with highly creative Googling i couldn't find that helpful, albeit depressing article.
[10:42] <KrisDouglas> I am getting slowly closer to losing the unity shell :(
[10:44] <popey> you suck at google :D
[10:44] <KrisDouglas> I was actually searching more along the lines of showing permanently rather than removing the feature entirely, which is where I went wrong.
[10:46] <bigcalm> I'd love to remove the drop shadow from windows in xfce
[10:46] <bigcalm> Somebody google that for me please?
[10:46] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/62502/are-there-3d-effects-on-xubuntu-hardware-accelerated-graphics/62503#62503
[10:47] <popey> switch that off?
[10:47] <KrisDouglas> lol, was that a dig bigcalm? :)
[10:47] <bigcalm> KrisDouglas: not really, but it could be if you want ;)
[10:48] <KrisDouglas> bigcalm, I will let that one slip
[10:48] <KrisDouglas> =]
[10:48] <bigcalm> \o/
[10:48] <bigcalm> It's actually something that looks silly, so I'd rather do without
[10:49] <gordonjcp> I must admit, I don't like drop shadows
[10:49] <gordonjcp> the Gnome ones are really headache-inducing
[10:50] <gordonjcp> why would you want to add a visual element that makes your eyes think they're not focused properly, or that makes your monitor look broken?
[10:50] <bigcalm> Yay, done it
[10:50] <bigcalm> popey: ta :)
[10:50] <bigcalm> Found the one setting to disable rather than removing all fancy features
[10:55] <popey> KrisDouglas: what's the problem with the close buttons in the top left?
[10:56] <KrisDouglas> To be honest it's not an urgent thing, but when the window is not focused they are not visible, and you cannot focus the window by clicking on the panel (I have 2 monitors) so you can't close it until you re-focus the window, hover over the button and click.
[10:56] <KrisDouglas> Bit of a pain.
[10:57] <KrisDouglas> If that makes sense?
[10:58] <popey> it does
[11:21] <davmor2> bigcalm: Twitter Residential Care homes no shock there then
[11:38] <KrisDouglas> I just noticed another interesting annoyance
[11:39] <KrisDouglas> if I want to restore a window which is maximised to a windowed state, i double click the panel and it unmaximises a window that has focus on the other screen
[11:39] <KrisDouglas> that's actually slightly more infuriating :)
[11:47] <davmor2> popey: what happens if you ask siri, how much a walrus weighs?
[11:49] <popey> no idea
[11:51] <davmor2> popey: try it absolute 80's have it giving out a hilarious reply
[11:56] <daubers> Wonder which search engine siri uses underneath it all
[11:57] <popey> it can use multiple
[11:57] <Dave> Lycos.
[11:57] <popey> wolfram-alpha is used heavily AIUI
[11:57] <popey> dogpile
[11:57] <Dave> Hotbot
[12:04] <Daviey> infoseek
[12:06] <KrisDouglas> I like Iris on Android, she has a good sense of humour.
[12:07] <freakyclown> daubers: maybe the new search engine from mc hammer?
[12:07] <popey> yeah, i played with siri a bit
[12:07] <popey> was amusing to dictate a text message to her whilst driving
[12:07] <popey> and get a reply which was dictated by the other guy using siri, and then read out by siri at my end
[12:07] <freakyclown> http://www.billboard.com/news/mc-hammer-search-engine-wiredoo-1005427312.story#/news/mc-hammer-search-engine-wiredoo-1005427312.story
[12:08] <freakyclown> popey: i played with siri a fair bit the other week
[12:08] <freakyclown> far far too much fun just on its own!
[12:08] <popey> yeah
[12:08] <popey> shame it's restricted in many ways in the UK
[12:08] <freakyclown> i might buy the misses an iphone just so i can play with siri
[12:09] <freakyclown> http://shitthatsirisays.tumblr.com/
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> freakyclown: http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-10/24/iris-siri-android
[12:10] <freakyclown> i shall install that on my tablet later tonight :D
[12:13] <KrisDouglas> iris is becoming a genuine competitor
[12:14] <freakyclown> i think if google got behind it properly it would be much better
[12:27] <gordonjcp> in Arch Linux, the standard way to make packages is to build them in a clean chroot so you can tell you've got the deps right - what's the Ubuntu equivalent?
[12:27] <piffer111> Hello!  My packaging system has become corrupted after an unclean shutdown.  :(
[12:28] <ali1234> gordonjcp: fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage
[12:28] <piffer111> Whenever I try to do anything at all using apt or dpkg, I get: "dpkg: warning: files list file for package `tzdata-java' missing, assuming package has no files currently installed.
[12:28] <piffer111> (Reading database ... 55%dpkg: unrecoverable fatal error, aborting:
[12:28] <piffer111>  files list file for package 'libk5crypto3' is missing final newline
[12:28] <piffer111> "
[12:28] <ali1234> that won't warn you about deps though
[12:28] <piffer111> Can anyone offer any suggestions?
[12:28] <piffer111> Yes, I tried Googling
[12:29] <gordonjcp> ali1234: and fakeroot assumes a completely clean environment, no additional packages?
[12:29] <ali1234> no
[12:29] <ali1234> it's fake
[12:30] <gordonjcp> ali1234: okay, I suspect that's not going to be the same thing then
[12:30]  * czajkowski stabs davmor2 and runs away
[12:30] <oimon> :( my phone refuses to mount on my box even after switching usb ports now :(
[12:31] <ali1234> gordonjcp: launchpad assumes a clean state
[12:32] <popey> gordonjcp: pbuilder is a good way to simulate that
[12:32]  * davmor2 tickles czajkowski just cause
[12:32] <gordonjcp> pbuilder seems to be the thing I want to google for, thanks
[12:32] <gordonjcp> ali1234: I don't want to use launchpad if I can avoid it
[12:33] <ali1234> understandable
[12:33] <ali1234> you can't use it for building without signing the CoC anyway
[12:34] <gordonjcp> yeah, I have no intentions of signing the CoC
[12:34] <gordonjcp> I did sign it previously, then revoked it because of Unity
[12:34] <ali1234> lol
[12:34] <popey> lol
[12:34] <gordonjcp> it's a bit of a one-way street
[12:35] <ali1234> that's a stupid reason
[12:35] <ali1234> there are plenty of better ones
[12:35] <gordonjcp> "here you go, sign this, you've got to play by our rules but if you want anything you can get stuffed"
[12:35] <ali1234> well yeah
[12:35] <gordonjcp> "oh you actually want a usable desktop? get stuffed"
[12:35] <gordonjcp> "accessibility? get stuffed, what do you think this is?"
[12:35] <ali1234> it's been that way since a while before unity though
[12:36] <gordonjcp> ali1234: yes, but Unity was the point where I could no longer use Ubuntu
[12:36] <ali1234> the CoC isn't the same as the copyright assignment if you want to contribute anything to canonical projects
[12:36] <oimon> so long as other DEs are available we just have to accept it
[12:36] <ali1234> that's far worse
[12:36] <gordonjcp> oimon: <shrug>
[12:36] <ali1234> the CoC is basically just common sense
[12:36] <gordonjcp> ali1234: that too
[12:36] <oimon> ubuntu is > unity
[12:36] <ali1234> in fact that's why i refuse to sign it
[12:37] <gordonjcp> I still find Unity extremely hard to use, but the fact that the little squares now have tooltips helps
[12:37] <ali1234> they always had tooltips
[12:37] <clockwatch> I wouldn't say that Unity made Ubuntu unusable
[12:37] <ali1234> they just didn't work due to a bug
[12:37] <gordonjcp> clockwatch: well, at least in the early versions it was impossible to tell what was going on
[12:38] <clockwatch> In the past I've used operating systems with far less usability
[12:38] <oimon> unity does remind me of an IT project that is a failure but the boss doesn't admit it
[12:38] <gordonjcp> clockwatch: the thing that screwed me up was that the conventional taskbar had been replaced by a strip of identical little squares with no indication of function
[12:38] <ali1234> clockwatch: beos?
[12:38] <clockwatch> no
[12:38] <gordonjcp> beos was quite good
[12:38] <gordonjcp> Haiku is quite good
[12:39] <ali1234> are we talking about the same beos?
[12:39] <ali1234> the one where they replaced the conventional taskbar with a strip of button, except they don't have icons and everything has silly names?
[12:40] <brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beos is what gordonjcp is refferring to. :)
[12:42] <oimon> remember solaris CDE?
[12:42] <oimon> http://www.guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/cde15solaris9 it was the colours and the sluggishness ugh
[12:43] <ali1234> i do
[12:43] <brobostigon> oimon: if memory serves, xfce was originally inspired by, that.
[12:43] <ali1234> nice screensaver though
[12:44] <oimon> brobostigon: which is probably why i remove xfce-panel before i do anything on it
[12:44] <oimon> similarly on gnome2 the bottom panel goes
[12:44] <oimon> solaris openwindows was sweet thoguh
[12:45] <brobostigon> oimon: i havent actually used CDE, only seem pictures of.
[12:45] <oimon> in my previous life i was solaris admin
[12:46] <brobostigon> ah.
[12:46] <brobostigon> but i think the best, lightest, simplest gui, i have used upto now, is haiku's.
[12:47] <oimon> when solaris switched from openwindows -> CDE, you didn't have a choice that what the way it was. c'est la vie
[12:47] <brobostigon> ah, i see.
[12:47] <oimon> i stopped using solaris boxes as desktop PCs after that
[12:48] <brobostigon> ok.
[12:48] <oimon> unity might suck but we have choice :)
[12:48] <oimon> i tried beos on a VM a little while ago
[12:48] <brobostigon> exactly, :)
[12:49] <oimon> still going, isn't it?
[12:49] <brobostigon> oimon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku_(operating_system)
[12:49] <brobostigon> yes.
[12:50] <oimon> when i ran windows, i used to used the blackbox shell replacement for a while :)
[12:50] <brobostigon> not fam,ilier with, sorry.
[12:50] <davmor2> oimon: you need to use minuetos :)  you can do what you like with it as long as you're binary is up to scratch ;)
[12:51] <oimon> blackbox shell replacement was a fluxbox DE for windows
[12:51] <brobostigon> oimon: ah, interesting.
[12:52] <oimon> davmor2: never seen that one before
[12:52] <davmor2> oimon: tis pretty
[12:53] <oimon> will have to choose an OS to run on my eee pc 701 when my son gets it
[12:53] <oimon> in a year or os
[12:53] <oimon> so
[12:54] <MartijnVdS> oimon: how old will he be then?
[12:54] <oimon> between 2 1/2 - 3
[12:54] <oimon> he is pretty good on my tablet pc right now
[12:59] <KrisDouglas> My boss' three year old can install iPhone apps.
[13:00] <KrisDouglas> and of course, play them...
[13:01] <oimon> my sprog with touchpad  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJdoB0k3DOw
[13:02] <KrisDouglas> oimon, that's incredible.
[13:03] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Does he always shake his index finger when he's thinking? :)
[13:04] <oimon> he's pointing..he likes doing that. when he reads a paper book he taps the pages until you tell him what the thing is
[13:04] <oimon> but he knows not to tap the touchscreen or it will start zooming everywhere
[13:04] <oimon> so he "air-points"
[13:05] <oimon> i feel for the kids that are subjected to loose women and eastenders during the daytime. kids soak up *everything*
[13:07] <brobostigon> agreed, they shouldnt have to deal with populerist drivel.
[13:07] <clockwatch> popularist drivel has always existed
[13:08]  * brobostigon doesnt like, nor watches populerist drivel.
[13:08] <MartijnVdS> clockwatch: as have parents that either expose or shield their kids from it
[13:08] <popey> brobostigon: you watch top gear
[13:09]  * brobostigon would rather watch, QI, to any soap.
[13:09] <clockwatch> I was never much of a TV watcher anyway
[13:09] <brobostigon> popey: good point, but not a populerist, as other things, which have far higher viewing figures.
[13:09] <oimon> there are some programmes we might watch while he's in the room, but usually neutral stuff such as grand deisgns
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> Doctor Who
[13:10] <oimon> no way - not for kids
[13:10] <oimon> i couldn't believe that merlin is showing on cbbc
[13:10] <popey> http://www.barb.co.uk/report/weekly-top-programmes-overview
[13:10] <clockwatch> Dr Who was created as a TV show for kids with a vaguely science related theme
[13:11] <popey> HIGNFY brobostigon ?
[13:11] <ali1234> and it still is
[13:11] <ali1234> except without the science
[13:11] <oimon> it's certainly not for kids anymore
[13:11] <ali1234> yes it is
[13:11] <ali1234> it's certainly not for adults
[13:11] <clockwatch> you mean there's kissing?
[13:12] <brobostigon> popey: that is quite specialist, with unfortunate, lack of popular interest.
[13:12] <clockwatch> I havn't seen any recent Dr Whos, but I remember there was minimal violence and certainly no sex
[13:13] <ali1234> ian hislop destroying that awful tory woman last week was quite amusing
[13:13] <popey> it was :D
[13:13] <oimon> there are episodes that are scary in a disturbing way , and plenty more reasons why i wouldn't let an under-10 watch it
[13:13] <popey> I do like Alexander Armstrong
[13:13] <clockwatch> Oh they were always scary for kids, but that was part of the fun
[13:13] <brobostigon> i still laugh my head of, of the last ep, that deayton was in HIGNFY.
[13:14] <oimon> "new" dr who (since RTD/eccleston return) preaches a world-view to kids that they shouldn't be expsoed to since adults handle things differently - they can dismiss it if they don't agree etc.
[13:15] <clockwatch> what is the new world view?
[13:15] <clockwatch> surely the Doctor's view is relative
[13:15] <ali1234> it has got a lot more politically correct
[13:15] <ali1234> but everything on TV has
[13:16] <clockwatch> oh, that's a shame
[13:16] <brobostigon> oimon: ah, you mean like the gay bedroom scenes, in the most recent torchwood?
[13:17] <oimon> don't watch torchwood but there were blatant themes in RTD's stuff. plus god complex stuff. dr who was never a messiah figure
[13:17] <MartijnVdS> Good thing Moffat took over then
[13:18] <oimon> i don't like the perversion of the religious imagery.
[13:18] <ali1234> hmm
[13:18] <oimon> moffat hasn't been perfect. he's certainly made more discturbing ones
[13:18] <ali1234> such as?
[13:18] <oimon> the lift one
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> oimon: don't blink :)
[13:18] <ali1234> i tend not to notice religious imagery so i must have missed it
[13:18] <oimon> yeah -that was scary for adults!
[13:18] <popey> there was a big one when the master came back
[13:18] <popey> getting everyone to chant doctors name
[13:18] <oimon> i see it in every episode
[13:18] <ali1234> i think i missed those episodes
[13:19] <brobostigon> i would rather it be entirly religeonless, if that can be imagined, than having the silly discussions, that come, when religeon is mentioned. really.
[13:19] <popey> he came back to life, surrounded by a halo
[13:19] <popey> and then floated across the room, arms outstreched like he was on a cross
[13:19] <ali1234> didn't he also shoot force lightning in that one?
[13:19] <popey> i think so
[13:19] <ali1234> i lol'd at that
[13:19] <popey> and hugged master, forgiving him
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: I think you're confusing The Doctor with the pope now
[13:19] <ali1234> was that the episode where he had to eat people to stay alive?
[13:19] <clockwatch> The timelords will disapprove
[13:20] <ali1234> by shooting them with lighting out of his eyes or something
[13:20] <popey> the master, yes
[13:20] <ali1234> i didn't know timelords could do that
[13:20] <brobostigon> however. as a representation of the master, john simm, did very well.
[13:20] <oimon> anyway i think these things can send a confusing message to young kids
[13:20] <oimon> and is as damaging as scary stories
[13:20] <popey> no more confusing than the sky-fairy stories they get at school
[13:20] <oimon> remember "are you my mummy"? i was freaked out by that one!
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> oimon: Another Moffat episode :)
[13:21] <ali1234> oh come on, it wasn't that scary
[13:21] <clockwatch> anything which makes you think outside of the box a bit is good.
[13:21] <gordonjcp> heh
[13:21] <gordonjcp> "Blink"
[13:21] <gordonjcp> I've always found statues a bit sinister anyway
[13:21] <oimon> clockwatch: as an adult yeah, but kids get a confused jumble of everything
[13:21] <ali1234> that recent episode in the spooky hotel was the only scary episode i can remember. and that's only scary if you;ve seen the shining
[13:22] <brobostigon> i would favour, leaving detail, and letting people make their own judgement, on how they interpret it, than shielding people, because of the way they could possibly interpret the scenes.
[13:22] <gordonjcp> I had this weird dream the other night with strange white-robed figures that were sort of half-standing half-floating
[13:22] <gordonjcp> not quite aliens and not quite humans
[13:22] <ali1234> i quite enjoyed that episode due to it not being about saving the entire universe for once.
[13:22] <oimon> ali1234: i'm not that subsceptible but the shining is the scariest film i've seen, wish i'd never seen it
[13:22] <gordonjcp> and when they spoke their voices sounded like MPT1327 trunking bursts
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: what the rhinos?
[13:23] <gordonjcp> except they had a sort of an accent and couldn't pronounce the framing bits, so I couldn't work out what they were saying
[13:25] <oimon> i think star wars ep4,5,6 is better for kids
[13:25] <oimon> and it's a true story too :D
[13:27] <livingdaylight> convert *.jpg foo.pdf
[13:28] <livingdaylight> can somone tell me what is 'foo' please?
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> livingdaylight: the name you want your output PDF file toe get
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> to get*
[13:28] <livingdaylight> gotcha, thanks MartijnVdS
[13:28] <oimon> or are you asking the origins of the words foo and bar?
[13:29] <livingdaylight> no, I was just seeking the practical side to it
[13:29] <oimon> :)
[13:33]  * daubers will resist another cup of coffee until 3pm
[13:35] <davmor2> daubers: drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink drink
[13:35] <clockwatch> I should set up a rule for repeated words
[13:36]  * daubers gaffa tapes davmor2 to the ceiling
[13:37] <MartijnVdS> watch out for Lionel
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> he's dancing up there
[13:38]  * davmor2 nail guns daubers below him so he has something soft to land on when the gaffa tape gives way
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/X5g02.jpg
[13:39] <MartijnVdS> oimon: ^ Doctor Who vs Star Wars
[13:39] <oimon> lol
[13:41] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: nice :)
[13:42] <oimon> what's the maximum latency you would accept on a LAN? i'm thinking for NFS purposes
[13:42] <gordonjcp> hm, adblock removed from apt?
[13:42] <daubers> oimon: What are you serving up across NFS?
[13:43] <oimon> daubers: home directories for 150 users via automount
[13:44] <daubers> oimon: In that case, as long as you have a nice chunky raid and a nice fat pipe to the NFS server, I wouldn't worry about latency. I'd be more worried about the network bandwidth and disk speed
[13:44] <oimon> daubers: the reason i'm asking is due to a proposal to move my NFS server offsite to a central location
[13:45] <oimon> the difference would be bandwidth and latency
[13:45] <daubers> oimon: Connected to that central location via what? (Please don't say single gigabit)
[13:45] <oimon> this is what i'm trying to establish. there's some fibre connections but i don't know if they are 10gb or 1gb
[13:46] <popey> iperf to test them?
[13:46] <daubers> if it was single gige, I'd go mental. Is this an office or education type setting?
[13:47] <oimon> daubers: currently unsure because i house all servers here, and i only care about getting my 1gb internet
[13:47] <oimon> but certainly nothing is happening until i get assurances..but it's hard to stop the steamroller of IT upper mgt sometimes
[13:47] <oimon> .ac.uk
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> upper-mgt.ac.uk?
[13:48] <oimon> monkeys.ac.uk
[13:49] <daubers> oimon: Ooof.... so quite likely that all 150 of those students will log on simultaniously, so over single gig-e with a max throughput on an nfs server of maybe 110MB/s they'll get 0.73MB/s, that'll be some speedy loading times (I hope these are linux homes, and not windows desktops?)
[13:50] <oimon> not to mention the many TB of scratch space that is regularly copied around
[13:51] <daubers> oimon: Scratch space? These for video editing users?
[13:51] <oimon> finding new planets
[13:51] <oimon> that kind of stuff
[13:51] <daubers> Ah, ok. In that case, you want 10GbE :)
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> or better ;)
[13:52] <daubers> MartijnVdS: RAID will probably be slower than 10GbE can give
[13:52] <oimon> my network is pretty healthy right now though
[13:52] <oimon> i don't want that to break :(
[13:52] <MartijnVdS> daubers: unless you expand to some huge fc san
[13:52] <daubers> Though I am fitting a customer with infiniband to a raid in a few months
[13:53] <oimon> nearly all my servers are on my SAN now. wish i had a second SAN :S
[13:53] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Pah, don't need fc to be fast, most fc sans wig out at a gig and a bit per second anyway because of the metadata servers
[13:53] <daubers> I've got 2 boxes downstairs that can easily outrun 99% of the sans on the planet at the moment
[13:53] <oimon> i'm running on 1G internally right now
[13:54] <daubers> oimon: What kind of san? Metasan/lan?
[13:54] <oimon> EQL SAN on iscsi
[13:54] <daubers> ick, iscsi
[13:55] <daubers> Are they now owned by dell?
[13:56] <oimon> yes
[13:57] <oimon> pleased with it
[13:57] <daubers> 16 bay chassis with sata/sas 3 disks.... probably peak at around 600-700MB/s in RAID 6 if their raid card is any good
[13:57] <gordonjcp> what the..?
[13:57] <gordonjcp> jackd1 depends on qjackctl?
[13:57] <gordonjcp> what on earth?
[13:58] <daubers> oimon: Seriously though, you do want a 10GbE link to the storage network across the buildings
[13:58] <daubers> Went into a uni that had a single gige link to their windows home folder store thing. Took the students 15 minutes to log on (think 400 students logging in simultaniously)
[13:58] <oimon> yes, i have asked the question , i would attempt to block any move without decent redundancy too
[13:59] <oimon> our network is good, their network flaky
[13:59] <daubers> heh
[14:00] <daubers> ooooh coffee time
[14:02]  * daubers won't be happy until he's managed to build a NAS that can provide 1/2TB/s
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> but can you process it that fast?
[14:03] <daubers> MartijnVdS: With about 10 clients, in one case I can
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> scary hardwarez
[14:03] <daubers> Maybe 20 clients
[14:04] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I love dealing with people working in Uncompressed 10bit dpx in 3D :)
[14:04]  * MartijnVdS saw the fibre digging people again today
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> I'll get it "sometime in November"
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> \o/ 500/500mbit _at home_
[14:05] <oimon> ORLY?
[14:05] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have seen bt doing that here. we will be due, sometime next year.
[14:05] <MartijnVdS> oimon: eindelijkglasvezel.nl :)
[14:06] <oimon> sorry your postcode is not ready :D
[14:08] <MartijnVdS> come to .nl ;) they want to get 100% coverage eventually (before 2020), and they're starting in smaller towns first
[14:27] <Monsterwizard> Would employees accept a CS grad for a systems programming job
[14:27] <Monsterwizard> I'm more intested in low level development
[14:27] <MooDoo> Monsterwizard: if they can do the job why now
[14:27] <MooDoo> not
[14:28] <oimon> from which university
[14:29] <Monsterwizard> University of the West of England?
[14:30] <Monsterwizard> How important is the degree?
[14:30] <Monsterwizard> I mean, my skills will never be limited to university
[14:30] <daubers> Monsterwizard: Depends on the employer
[14:31] <daubers> Monsterwizard: With larger companies it's almost a requirement unless you have lots of previous experience in a commercial environment
[14:32] <Monsterwizard> Well I am doing computer science but I realise that there's little opportunity to study low level development
[14:32] <Monsterwizard> and that's my goal :P
[14:37] <oimon> Monsterwizard: how far into degree are you?
[14:38] <Monsterwizard> 1 Month
[14:39] <oimon> :D
[14:40] <Monsterwizard> Too late to change though sadly
[14:41] <Monsterwizard> I guess I will just practice and study low development in my free time
[14:41] <oimon> change to what?
[14:41] <Monsterwizard> Computer Systems Integration? Or Electronic Engineering?
[14:41] <oimon> i did maths+CS..served me well
[14:43] <Monsterwizard> Sadly there isn't  huge deal of maths in my degree
[14:43] <oimon> CS is a decent degree IMO and some coursemates are coders while others are sysadmins..none of us really knew what we wanted to do after graduation
[14:43] <oimon> just something with 'puters
[14:43] <Monsterwizard> only strongly related to Computer Science....it's almost a Software Engineering Degree :P
[14:43] <oimon> i was hired into a sysadmin role without ever using root
[14:43] <Monsterwizard> lol
[14:43] <oimon> linux didn't exist in those days
[14:44] <Monsterwizard> Will I be at a disadvantage because I didn't study calculus or Algebra?
[14:44] <Monsterwizard> at university level?
[14:46] <oimon> doing CS? no
[14:47] <Monsterwizard> Are you sure?
[14:47] <_jane> 12
[14:48] <Monsterwizard> Because many foreign CS courses seem to do lots of Algebra and Calculus
[14:48] <oimon> i did my degree in the 90s so best ask others in here :P
[14:49] <Monsterwizard> Still your contribution would be vaild
[14:52] <oimon> there was a tiny amount IMO. i remember writing a C program to perform integration as part of a lab exercise. i don't think maths was a necessary or significant  component of the CS course.
[14:52] <oimon> a bigger issue IMO is maths undergrads who haven't taken further maths alevel
[14:52] <Monsterwizard> Good. That makes me feel better. Although for the sake of valuable knowledge, I'll eventually learn high level maths
[14:53] <Monsterwizard> ahh hI see
[14:53] <Monsterwizard> I want to study the equalient of A-levell maths without buying A-level mathhs books
[14:53] <Monsterwizard> lol I'm fed up with seeing 'A-Level' D:
[14:54] <oimon> maybe spend your time learning C :)
[14:54] <oimon> what prog language is on the syllabus?
[14:54] <Monsterwizard> Java D:
[14:55] <Monsterwizard> But in my speare time I learn C using a Programming gate aray
[14:55] <Monsterwizard> Mainly Java
[14:55] <Monsterwizard> A little bit of C++,
[14:57] <oimon> some guys i studied with got crappy degrees but were great programmers ( they couldn't be bothered to do the exams properly)
[14:58] <oimon> i did the opposite. crappy coder but great looking degree
[14:58] <Monsterwizard> lol
[14:58] <Monsterwizard> gtg lecture
[14:58] <Monsterwizard> thank you for your help
[14:58] <oimon> don't ask which is better though
[15:10]  * Myrtti waves fist at Parcelforce
[15:21] <BigRedS> Is there a sane way to have tomboy data synced & available offline to a trio of machines, one Ubuntu, one Arch and one Debian?
[15:21] <BigRedS> or a sane alternative?
[15:22] <davmor2> Myrtti: any particular reason?
[15:22] <BigRedS> webdav looks promising, but it appears to be an alternative to storing it locally :/
[15:23] <davmor2> BigRedS: dropbox?
[15:23] <davmor2> BigRedS: You could use U1 web interface to grab it all
[15:23] <BigRedS> davmor2: Ah yeah, that'd make sense. I forgot I could stick it on someone else's servers...
[15:29] <bigcalm> Cleaning out some dead wood from twitter and facebook is invigorating
[15:29] <oimon> i clear old posts from fb regularly
[15:29] <bigcalm> I was talking about people
[15:29] <oimon> although fb keep them
[15:30] <oimon> ah lol
[15:30] <oimon> bug 818830
[15:30] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 818830 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "[Sandy Bridge] serious power regression from kernel 3.0.0-6 to 3.0.0-7 (rc6 disabled)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/818830
[15:30] <RichTUK> hi all, im having some issues with my 8200m g nivida gfx card on 11.10, i have 4 drivers to choose from in the additional drivers however when i try them in system info it still tells me my gfx card is unknown and unity remains choppy
[15:31] <Myrtti> davmor2: ordered 4 hot water bottles and the tracking system leaves a bit to hope for
[15:32] <davmor2> Myrtti: haha you weren't expecting the tracker to be accurate were you?
[15:33] <bigcalm> Anybody know how to make skype messages more obvious in xfce?
[15:34] <bigcalm> Oh, bugger
[15:34] <bigcalm> The "Display pop-up notification" tickbox is greyed out :(
[15:35] <davmor2> bigcalm: how about an electric shock from a cattle prod wired into the ear phone jack?
[15:35] <bigcalm> Might work
[15:35] <oimon> bigcalm: use a dock with xfce?
[15:35] <bigcalm> oimon: such as?
[15:35] <davmor2> ask on #xubuntu they use it so will likely know
[15:36] <oimon> docky has optional skype integration i believe
[15:36] <oimon> but davmor2 has wisest answer :P
[15:36] <bigcalm> Ah, ta
[15:37] <davmor2> oimon: I know it's shocking but sometimes even I have moments of inspiration :)
[15:37] <oimon> until he finds only one bot sitting in#xubuntu
[15:38] <MooDoo> oimon: davmor2 and wise don't go together, you should know that ;)
[15:38] <davmor2> oimon: in that case #xubuntu-devel
[15:39] <oimon> i'm sure it has plenty of unity refugees in #xubuntu anyway
[15:39] <MartijnVdS> as long as I can disable global menu and enable focus-follows-mouse, I don't care ;)
[15:40] <nymwar> So it's not only me that doesn't like the global menu
[15:40] <MartijnVdS> nymwar: not by a long shot :)
[15:40] <oimon> it's sooo wrong
[15:40] <nymwar> Initially I thought it was a good idea, until I started using it
[15:41] <oimon> the mouse gets worn out travelling so much
[15:41] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: it made me realise how little I use the menu to be honest :)  I think I only really use it to change setting initially and then that's about it
[15:41] <oimon> doesn't seem touch friendly when they hide it too
[15:41] <oimon> i use libreoffice and firefox/chrome menus a lot
[15:41] <oimon> and email
[15:42] <Myrtti> I personally use Cairo-dock in my Xfce
[15:42] <oimon> none are maximised except maybe email inbox window
[15:42] <davmor2> oimon: I do from time to time, but then I have all those maximised so the menu is where I expect it to be anyway
[15:43] <ali1234> it's so annoying that you have to click in a window before you can unmaximize it
[15:44] <davmor2> ali1234: why do you?
[15:44] <ali1234> because if you don't the window controls aren't shown
[15:45] <davmor2> ali1234: yes they are you move the cursor to the top no clicking and then click on minimise/unmaximise
[15:45] <ali1234> nope, doesn't work
[15:46] <davmor2> ali1234: yes it does I've just done it
[15:49] <bigcalm> Restarting skype has brough back osn
[15:49] <bigcalm> Maybe having skype start automatically is not working correctly
[15:50] <bigcalm> Loading it before the notifier or something
[15:50] <ali1234> davmor2: nope http://imagebin.org/180571
[15:51] <davmor2> ali1234: That's already unmaximised
[15:51] <ali1234> no it isn't
[15:51] <ali1234> the window is filling the whole screen
[15:51] <ali1234> how do i unmaximize it without clicking in it?
[15:52] <davmor2> ali1234: yes that is because it is the application that has focus that has it's menu on the top
[15:53] <ali1234> exactly
[15:53] <ali1234> i don't want to unmaximize the window that has focus
[15:53] <ali1234> it is already unmaximized
[15:53] <ali1234> i want to unmaximize the maximized window without clicking in it
[15:55] <davmor2> ali1234: out of interest what would you of done previously if the focus terminal was on top of the unmaximise button of the fullscreen terminal which was often the case?
[15:56] <ali1234> i would have moved the focused terminal, and then clicked unmaximize
[15:57] <ali1234> look, the point is, i have to deal with a lot of really touchy software where one wrong click can destroy hours of work
[15:57] <ali1234> so i don't like randomly clicking in windows to focus them, before i can minimize them or move them around
[15:57] <davmor2> ali1234: Yeap I get it but at the same time I don't, I've not yet closed anything I shouldn't of but then I have most windows fullscreen
[15:58] <ali1234> i'm not talking about closing the wrong window
[15:58] <ali1234> i'm talking about you click in a window and trigger a button that deletes all your work or crashes the program
[15:58] <ali1234> or both
[15:59] <ali1234> or you click in the window and it also sends a small drag event that moves something out of position (gimp)
[15:59]  * AlanBell agrees with ali1234 
[15:59] <ali1234> then you have to click "undo" and *then* you can minimize it
[15:59] <ali1234> it's totally lame
[16:00] <AlanBell> non-focused maximised windows on the other screen don't have controls
[16:00] <davmor2> ali1234: that's what I do that is different then I use the launcher to switch apps/windows and then click on whatever
[16:00] <ali1234> i expected someone by now would have told me to unmaximize it by dragging the title bar
[16:00] <ali1234> of course, this does not work when the global menu fills the whole width of the screen
[16:01] <ali1234> when ever i click on the launcher it unminimizes all my windows and then i have to spend 10 minutes minimizing all but the one i wanted
[16:01] <ali1234> which is also totally lame
[16:02] <ali1234> i spend a lot of time minimizing things now
[16:02] <ali1234> which is why this problem is all the more annoying
[16:02] <davmor2> ali1234: yes it does, just tried it you grab the top left and pull down or in the middle on a menu and pull down
[16:02] <ali1234> i just tried it and accidentally activated private browsing mode in firefox
[16:03] <ali1234> it did unminimize as well, but then i had to clear an annoying modal dialog box
[16:03] <davmor2> ali1234: actually your right it acts a bit hit and miss I'll write a bug for that
[16:04] <ali1234> also unity in oneiric is a lot slower than it was in natty :(
[16:05] <ali1234> when i drag a window it doesn't even move until about 3 seconds after i release the mouse button
[16:06] <oli> ali1234: yeah I'm getting that too at the moment :(
[16:06] <oli> Depends on the window, mind you. Firefox takes about a week to start moving but a terminal window is fairly fluid
[16:07] <ali1234> it happens when running a 3d game or something on a different workspace
[16:07] <ali1234> under natty, this worked fine
[16:08] <ali1234> although it is still really choppy even after quitting it
[16:08] <ali1234> not quite as bad though
[16:08] <ali1234> basically desktop latency under load is now as bad as it was when i only had 4GB
[16:09] <ali1234> maybe it is because i am using the light-themes and i haven't disabled those killer dropshadows
[16:09] <ali1234> in natty i was using human theme, that was always much faster than the new ones
[16:10] <ali1234> one good thing about unity is - no more crashing, randomly rearranging gnome-panel
[16:10] <ali1234> i think that's my favourite thing about it
[16:10] <MunkyJunky> Evening! How do I go about removing partition icons in the unity panel?
[16:11] <ali1234> you can't really
[16:11] <MunkyJunky> Even if it's a constantly mounted drive? :/
[16:12] <MunkyJunky> It's not a USB drive, it's an internal ,media drive which is always mounted.
[16:12] <ali1234> if it's constantly mounted and it;s *not* USB it should not show up
[16:12] <ali1234> if you can tell me how you managed to get it to show up i'd like to know
[16:12] <ali1234> because i have that exact use case and i want to see them and they are not there
[16:12] <MunkyJunky> It's a drive I manually added to fstab. Before that I manually mounted it.
[16:13] <ali1234> well, remove it from fstab and manually mount it, and it won;t show i guess
[16:13] <ali1234> there might be some hidden registery - um, i mean dconf - setting for it but who knows
[16:13] <MunkyJunky> But then it won't mount at boot
[16:14] <ali1234> i mean it;s not like you can just look at the text files :(
[16:15] <DJones> ali1234: I've been setting a machine up with 3 partitions mounted via /media (eg /media/music) etc, all on physical disks in the machine, those partitions appear in the unity panel
[16:15] <ali1234> yeah
[16:16] <ali1234> if it's in fstab or it is removable, it shows up
[16:16] <ali1234> if you mount it by hand with mount, it doesn't
[16:16] <ali1234> and that's the way it goes
[16:16] <MunkyJunky> is there a way to make it mount on boot using mount then? Everything I've seen so far says you've got to use fstab
[16:17] <ali1234> you can mount it from rc.local but i don't recommend it
[16:17] <ali1234> it won't be unmounted properly and blah blah blah
[16:17] <ali1234> just get used to that icon or write a patch
[16:17] <MunkyJunky> get used to the icon it is!
[16:17] <ali1234> or read the source to see if there's a hidden setting
[16:18] <MunkyJunky> I'm not willing to go to that much effort to be fair. If there was a simple answer of "untick this tickbox" id be happy, else I'll just live with it.
[16:20] <ali1234> i just put a faulty NAS unit back together and i have 13 screws and a metal panel left over :(
[16:20] <bigcalm> Heh
[16:20] <oli> 13?! That's impressive
[16:21] <ali1234> the good news is it should cost slightly less to send it back to the customer :)
[16:21] <ali1234> the bad news is one of the drives is dead and it is now degraded
[16:21] <ali1234> and they are pata so no chance of a replacement
[16:22] <ali1234> so they probably won't want the damn thing back
[16:46] <gord> czajkowski, forgot tea =\
[16:46] <gord> please come here and give me tea
[16:47] <Pendulum> gord: in Orlando already?
[16:47] <gord> yeah, always a week early
[16:47] <MartijnVdS> gord: you love the USA that much?
[16:48] <Pendulum> gord: what sort of tea would you like and I can see what I can find to bring down on Sunday :)
[16:49] <Pendulum> (there are a couple shops near me that actually have a decent selection of British teas
[16:49] <Pendulum> )
[16:49] <gord> Pendulum, pg tips! or yorkshire
[16:49] <Pendulum> I will see what I can do
[16:49] <Pendulum> definitely can bring yorkshire
[16:49] <Pendulum> but I think I can find pg tips as well
[16:52] <gord> \o/
[17:35] <bigcalm> I've just managed to break the mysql client without trying :) http://paste.ubuntu.com/718078/
[17:36] <bigcalm> No idea if that is of use to anybody. I haven't tried to recreate the issue yet
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you Ctrl+Ced it twice in a row?
[17:36] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> so you interrupted its interrupt handling code
[17:36] <bigcalm> Ah
[17:36] <bigcalm> It didn't seem to be responding to me
[17:37] <MartijnVdS> It should just block the signal until it's done :)
[17:37]  * bigcalm tries to let things finish in the future
[17:39]  * MartijnVdS wonders what to do
[17:39] <bigcalm> Play Minecraft
[17:39] <MartijnVdS> no.
[17:39] <bigcalm> Aqq
[17:39] <bigcalm> Aww
[18:03] <daubers> Evening
[18:09] <RaycisCharles> Standard?
[18:25] <KrimZon> how do I select the gtk3 theme used in xubuntu?
[18:27] <KrimZon> change between gtk3 themes in xubuntu, I mean
[18:48] <tonytiger> Evening
[18:48] <daubers> o/
[18:50] <popey> pip pip
[18:53] <tonytiger> I have my sound effects ready for tomorrow's show
[18:53] <scoundrel50a> Just for an fyi, I went out roaming yesterday, took the Galaxy Tab and mifi from 3 out, went to Covent Garden, connected and things worked, then went across to St James park and in two different places there connected again with no problems.
[18:54] <scoundrel50a> Quite impressed with this little thing
[18:56] <daubers> scoundrel50a: Which tab is it?
[18:56] <daubers> 10.1?
[18:56] <scoundrel50a> yes
[18:56] <daubers> jealous
[18:56] <scoundrel50a> it didnt loose connection at all, and was quite fast
[18:58] <Andres-kain> is there any way to change the greeting sound?
[19:01] <Andres-kain> KrimZon you still there?
[19:01] <Andres-kain> why can't you change it in the xubuntu aperience menu?
[19:03] <Andres-kain> i have hear that not all gtk3 are still avaible. and might look wierd.
[19:04] <KrimZon> I am now
[19:04] <KrimZon> I didn't know you could
[19:04] <Andres-kain> did it work?
[19:05] <KrimZon> I'll try it, just got to install a theme
[19:05] <Andres-kain> do not like any of the defaults?
[19:05] <Andres-kain> where do you get them from?
[19:06] <KrimZon> yay, that worked
[19:06] <KrimZon> gnome-look.org
[19:06] <Andres-kain> gnome-look for xubuntu?
[19:06] <Andres-kain> great!
[19:06] <KrimZon> for xubuntu there's also xfce-look.org
[19:07] <Andres-kain> since you are around, you wouldn't nknow how to change the greeting sound?
[19:07] <KrimZon> and a kde-look.org among other stuff
[19:08] <Andres-kain> but you asked for xubuntu?
[19:08] <KrimZon> oh, I see what you meant
[19:08] <gordonjcp> *remove* the greeting sound would be good
[19:09] <gordonjcp> along with all the others
[19:09] <KrimZon> I thought you wondered if there was a gnome-look for ubuntu, not surprised that I was looking there
[19:09] <KrimZon> somehow I've disabled sound effects because I like it quiet
[19:09] <KrimZon> so I'll try to figure out how I did that
[19:11] <Andres-kain> i use xubuntu.
[19:18] <KrimZon> I have absolutely no idea how to change the sounds
[19:22] <Andres-kain> yep. that seems like a tiny one up that windows has, krimzon
[19:22] <KrimZon> I could change them in gnome too
[19:23] <Andres-kain> really? how?
[19:23] <KrimZon> gnome had a sounds section in system -> preferences
[19:24] <Andres-kain> oh. had missed that in the day thanks!
[19:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Survey Next Steps: Leadership - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/24/ubuntu-community-survey-next-steps-leadership/
[19:35] <daubers> I've just changed my osx desktop to match my unity layout :s
[19:35] <jacobw> trying to make a mac like ubuntu?
[19:36] <daubers> jacobw: More that I always mouse to the left now to get to the dock, kept having to go back to the bottom afterwards on the mouse
[19:36] <zleap> daubers, cool
[19:37] <zleap> i get confused with windows,  the bar thing to minimise andclose apps is in the wrong place
[19:37] <daubers> zleap: Heh, I just find the applications are in the wrong place on Windows :)
[19:37] <zleap> yeah that too
[19:37] <zleap> no upper menu bar
[19:38] <zleap> come to think of it,  if windows is installed its in the wrong place
[19:38] <zleap> should be on a cd and installed in rubbish bin
[19:38] <jacobw> i've made my XP laptop from work like that now daubers
[19:38] <zleap> mind you saying tjhat i am now playing games more now i have my old pc dual booting
[19:39] <jacobw> unfortunately, XP taskbar is about as responsive as the dead parrot :(
[19:39] <zleap> i just find windows annoying
[19:39] <zleap> out of interest now I can see my ubunty share folder i should be able to share my printer via windows
[19:40] <zleap> and actually print from ubuntu,  temproary measure till i figure out how to get it printing directly from ubuntu
[19:41] <jacobw> ipp://
[19:42] <zleap> yeah
[19:42] <zleap> ah so i just type ipp:// ip addy of windows box
[19:43] <jacobw> i'm sure if its that simple
[19:43] <jacobw> +not
[19:45] <jacobw> which version of window is it?
[20:12] <czajkowski> evening folks
[20:13] <popey> Good evening
[20:15]  * czajkowski hugs popey HELLO my PRECIOUS 
[20:16] <popey> Ruh-roh!
[20:16] <czajkowski> I can haz job again
[20:16] <czajkowski> this is good
[20:16] <czajkowski> no deportation for me
[20:16] <czajkowski> :)
[20:17] <DJones> Congratulation czajkowski
[20:17] <DJones> +s
[20:18] <czajkowski> why thank you
[20:18] <czajkowski> now on my next hit list is the horrible HMR&C
[20:18] <czajkowski> swines
[20:18] <DJones> Heh
[20:20] <czajkowski> I seemingly have a 180 quid underpayment of tax for 2010/11
[20:21] <czajkowski> given I only worked 6 months of that year seems a bit hard
[20:23] <daubers> czajkowski: Underpayed by £30 a month… tsk tsk
[20:23]  * daubers is a good boy and launders his money through the Seychelles so he doesn't have to pay tax
[20:23] <czajkowski> daubers: also I seemingly got a magical BIK of 890
[20:23] <daubers> I mean… ummm…
[20:23]  * daubers run
[20:23] <daubers> BIK?
[20:23] <czajkowski> benefit in Kind
[20:24] <daubers> o…k…
[20:25] <daubers> I seem to be regressing to my childhood
[20:25] <daubers> writing some test code in python, realised what I'd just typed was Spectrum BASIC
[20:28] <mgdm>  :D
[20:34] <andylockran> :p
[20:36] <Andres-kain> just about to update my xubuntu.
[20:37] <Andres-kain> 21:37
[20:39] <Andres-kain> deactivated 3rd party! 21:39
[20:40] <andylockran> :)
[20:42] <Andres-kain> start update window does not fit my netbook: used alt+leftmouse to accept!
[20:44] <Andres-kain> 21:44 271 out of 1458 files downloaded
[20:54] <gordonjcp> urgh
[20:54] <gordonjcp> right, suspend just plain doesn't work in 11.10
[20:55] <bigcalm> Does for me
[20:55] <bigcalm> YMMV
[20:55] <gordonjcp> unless the Ubuntu definition of "suspend" is "blank the screen and stop responding to key events"
[20:56] <jacobw> i think that is the ubuntu definition of 'suspend' :P
[20:56] <gordonjcp> what does 11.10 use for suspend anyway?
[20:57] <gordonjcp> pm-suspend works just fine in Arch
[20:58] <bigcalm> Works on my laptop: I close the lid, it goes into suspend. I open the lid, it wakes up and asks for my password
[20:58] <bigcalm> Should it be working differently
[21:00] <gord> suspend works fine here
[21:00] <gord> though this is linux, so results may vary
[21:00] <DJones> Just tested "Suspend" on this laptop, never tried it before, and it works perfectly as bigcalm described it
[21:00] <bigcalm> \o/
[21:01] <Dave2> My experience was closing the laptop, it suspending, me swearing at it and waking it back up again, then changing the config to make it stop doing that
[21:01] <Andres-kain> only 150 files to go!
[21:02] <KrimZon> in my experience everything is annoying by default and I have to change the settings
[21:02] <KrimZon> one time they'll make default be how I like it... just to annoy me
[21:04] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: I've tried it on four different laptops, with the same result on each
[21:04] <gordonjcp> oh well, yet another thing obviously not tested before release
[21:05] <gordonjcp> there's just so many annoying wee things that work properly in other distros
[21:05] <bigcalm> Or tested to a limited extent. I think it would be difficult to test against _every_ machine in the world
[21:05] <gordonjcp> well
[21:06] <gordonjcp> you'd think that testing against a variety of laptops with Intel chipsets would be easy enough
[21:06] <AlanBell> there is certified hardware
[21:06] <Andres-kain> humm. debconf looks wierd asks me to choose gdm or lightdm
[21:07] <Andres-kain> i'll go for light but i do not know what any of it is.
[21:07] <AlanBell> which doesn't mean that the certified hardware will work, but you can jump up and down a bit more loudly if it doesn't
[21:07] <bigcalm> gdm = old and busted. lightdm = new hotness
[21:07] <bigcalm> Or something
[21:07] <AlanBell> or, if you have a suspend bug, see if you can get someone to reproduce it on certified hardware
[21:07] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: while I see the value in doing that, at the moment I need a laptop that *works*
[21:08] <Andres-kain> ok, thanks! and i hoover mouse on it and it tells me what gdm means!
[21:08] <Andres-kain> debconf still looks messed up on xubuntu update. with empty banner.
[21:08] <bigcalm> I wonder if you can copy a whole panel (launchers and all) to other sessions
[21:08] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: having the power management stuff decide that after ten minutes I no longer need the backlight on isn't by even the most generous definition what you could call "working"
[21:09] <AlanBell> yeah, I have a worse issue with the backlight
[21:10] <AlanBell> it flickers like mad when I am on battery
[21:10] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: I have that sometimes
[21:10] <gordonjcp> at least when it's flickering it doesn't turn off after ten minutes
[21:10] <AlanBell> like it is attempting to cause the user to have a seisure
[21:10] <gordonjcp> being able to turn the CPU frequency up from 800MHz would be nice, too
[21:11] <bigcalm> Shouldn't that be a bios feature?
[21:11] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: I don't see why
[21:11] <Andres-kain> unpacking libgtk3 \o/
[21:11] <gordonjcp> CPU scaling works in Arch, but does not work in Ubuntu
[21:11] <bigcalm> *shrug*
[21:12] <gordonjcp> it's a shame, because bits of it all work really well
[21:12] <Andres-kain> is it wierd that i'm more excited wit ubuntu update than rugby results?
[21:12] <gordonjcp> leaving aside the more annoying visual misfeatures like the Mac menu and weird sideways Mac dock
[21:13] <gordonjcp> and the coloured squares in the applications menu being so huge with tiny barely-readable labels - granted, they are much bigger compared to 11.04
[21:13] <Andres-kain> i like it in the side, gives me more space on screen
[21:13] <gordonjcp> Andres-kain: I prefer a taskbar at the bottom
[21:13] <gordonjcp> Andres-kain: the thing at the side is harder to read because you have to mouse over each of the little squares to see what it is
[21:14] <gordonjcp> if you made them wide enough to take a text label they'd look silly
[21:14] <bigcalm> CPU scaling worked for me. Was at 1600, started playing Minecraft and it jumped up to 2400
[21:17] <Andres-kain> no need for mouse, just press the super (or is it meta) and type what you need?
[21:18] <bigcalm> Would be nice if super would replace ctrl+alt in xubuntu
[21:19] <bigcalm> If only for super+d
[21:19] <Andres-kain> humm seems like i thought i was logged off another user but i am not.
[21:20] <Andres-kain> says i need to restart xscreen saver and xlockmore before contiuming?
[21:20] <bigcalm> Google isn't getting me very far. Can you copy a panel and its contents?
[21:21] <Andres-kain> but i do not care if other users cannot coninue their sesions..
[21:22] <Andres-kain> hum..clicked next and it continued away. wierd.
[21:22] <Andres-kain> what panel bigcalm?
[21:23] <bigcalm> Andres-kain: xfce panels
[21:24] <Andres-kain> never tried... maybe doing copy paste?
[21:24] <Andres-kain> are your pannels so full?
[21:25] <bigcalm> No, but I have 3 desktops running (one for each monitor) and I'd like to have the feature rich panel I've set up on monitor1 to be on the other 2
[21:26] <Andres-kain> ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh sounds cool but not a clue. only one monitor
[21:27] <bigcalm> I'm using xubuntu because Unity doesn't work on more than one monitor
[21:27] <Andres-kain> didn't know that...
[21:28] <Andres-kain> i thought all the pannels would be copied to the other desktops by default.. that seems to be the case with one screen.
[21:29] <bigcalm> My set up: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/dzvQPhA1vXi
[21:29] <bigcalm> I have to say that it's looking amazingly tidy on that day
[21:34] <Andres-kain> looks cool, did you spend the pennies?
[21:34] <bigcalm> A mixture of work and my own
[21:36] <Andres-kain> you a developer, work in stockexchage, or energy sector?
[21:36] <bigcalm> Heh
[21:36] <bigcalm> I'm a web developer
[21:37] <Andres-kain> out of curiosity, do you findhyourself saying... if only i had an extra screen...
[21:37] <dutchie> i'm pretty sure you could always use an extra screen
[21:37] <Andres-kain> heh
[21:38] <bigcalm> Andres-kain: The trouble is that I've maxed out my desk space. I have 6 virtual desktops on each monitor :S
[21:38] <Andres-kain> mental.
[21:38] <bigcalm> Just a little
[21:38] <bigcalm> The central monitor is the only one I tend not to switch desktops on
[21:40] <Andres-kain> question: can you have your window manager open a new desktop with a maximized windows of each aplication you open?
[21:40] <Andres-kain> don't know if that was english...
[21:41] <Andres-kain> i mean i start up with one desktop but it will add more depending on number of windows open
[21:43] <Andres-kain> bigcalm do you have ubuntu set so it remembers previous setting?
[21:45] <bigcalm> Not really
[21:45] <bigcalm> I find that it doesn't always work as I want it to. So I just load programs as and when I need them
[21:45] <Andres-kain> so you manually open all programs after reboot?
[21:46] <bigcalm> Yes
[21:46] <bigcalm> Which is each morning
[21:47] <bigcalm> I work from home and don't like having my workstation being noisy while I'm trying to sleep
[21:48] <Andres-kain> makes sense.
[21:50] <Andres-kain> only 2 hours and 16 minutes left on update. i think i'm going to leave it over night...
[21:58] <Andres-kain> uh-oh terminal shows loads of gtk-warning and gtk-Critical... no show stoppers it seems.
[21:59] <Azelphur> when I use my keyboards volume control, it changes the volume for card 1 Master, which does nothing as I use a USB headset
[21:59] <Azelphur> any idea how to fix that?
[21:59] <Andres-kain> unpaking replacement popularity-contest?
[22:00] <Andres-kain> um sorry!
[22:00] <Andres-kain> out of context.
[22:01] <Andres-kain> no idea azelphur maybe in the keyboard shrtcut config?
[22:01] <Azelphur> nope it's not there
[22:05] <Andres-kain> i realize now i had the same issue and i think i did not solve it or solved its self after an update.
[22:06] <Andres-kain> so no help sorry.
[22:07] <Andres-kain> i am begining to fear the outcome of this update... more gtk critical something to do with the icons..
[22:08] <bigcalm> Sleep time, night peeps
[22:11] <Andres-kain> night. same heere
[22:22] <bigcalm> Laptop in bed \o/
[22:23] <StevenR> bigcalm: I have a tray for that :)
[22:23] <bigcalm> StevenR: as do I
[22:23] <bigcalm> It has cats on it
[22:24] <bigcalm> Sorry, a cat
[22:24] <StevenR> (I hope you mean a picture of a cat :) )
[22:26] <gordonjcp> yeah
[22:26] <gordonjcp> the fur would clog the air intakes
[22:27] <bigcalm> I sadly have no real cats here :'(
[22:27] <bigcalm> One day in the future...
[22:27] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] My thoughts on Unity. - http://zrmt.com/2011/10/24/my-thoughts-on-unity/
[23:41] <nucc1> folks, what is the program behind the erstwhile ability to right-click a usb disk on the desktop and select "format"?