/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/24/#ubuntu-us-ca.txt

* pleia2 waves01:57
pleia2meeting in a couple minutes :)01:57
akkyay, I'm actually here for a meeting01:59
pleia2we don't have an agenda, so hopefully it'll be short :)01:59
iheartubuntui hope i dont miss it then :)02:00
pleia2#startmeeting02:00
* jtatum waves :)02:00
pleia2ok, welcome everyone!02:00
pleia2so our agenda is technically empty: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/11October2302:00
pleia2but I want to jump right in and talk about our leadership situation02:00
pleia2several weeks ago Darkwing put a call out for people to volunteer for the leadership team, we have 3 spots and ended up with 3 applicants: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Leadership/201102:01
pleia2so just like last year, not enough for a proper election02:01
akk3 good candidates, though!02:02
philipballewlooks good to me02:02
pleia2so we figured the fairest way to do this is to give folks an opportunity to express any concerns they may have with these three folks and handle it accordingly, if no one has problems then they get added when the old team expires on October 27th02:02
iheartubuntulooks good to me too. i would love to but dont know what is needed to perform duties02:02
pleia2the way we'll do this is have jdeslip collect any concerns, since he's still a leader and he's not running again02:03
akkI have no concerns about any of the three -- I'd vote for them all.02:03
philipballewi dont really like pleia2 she's to nice and works to hard :)02:03
pleia2he's jdeslip@gmail.com, and I'll send an email to the list explaining all this :)02:03
pleia2philipballew :)02:03
pleia2iheartubuntu: the leadership team follows what's outlined in our leadership charter: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Leadership02:04
pleia2day to day we just make sure meetings happen and things are documented properly02:04
GarethHmm. Do the elected have the option to some how eliminate the other two and then rule with an iron fist?02:04
pleia2Gareth: paying them off is much easier02:05
pleia2also, less blood02:05
* philipballew also takes bribes if anyone is interested. 02:05
pleia2so, the only other thing we really have is some event recap :)02:05
Garethpleia2: Oh I wasn't implying violence...just wanted to leave the door open for all possibilities.02:06
pleia2hehe02:06
pleia2last week we had some things in northern california, sf ubuntu hour and release dinner, and mt view ubuntu hour02:06
philipballewSD Ubuntu hour02:06
akkpleia2 just beats the other two with stuffed ubuntu characters until they come around to her way of thinking.02:06
pleia2I blogged about them here: http://princessleia.com/journal/?p=5184 and photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/sets/72157627938849996/02:06
pleia2akk: haha02:06
pleia2philipballew: any comments from that one? pictures? :)02:06
philipballewcomments:02:07
philipballewwell it was just me and the shop owner02:07
jtatumthat happens02:07
pleia2yeah, I've had 2 person ubuntu hours02:07
philipballewbut it is a Internet coffee shop and we talked about running ubuntu on his machines compared to xp that is there currently02:07
pleia2last month it was just violajack and I, we called it the ubuntu women hour ;D02:08
pleia2cool02:08
philipballewthe phil and kevin show is usually what happens here in sd02:08
iheartubuntuid love to run for office, but if the 3 has been set im very good with that too.02:09
philipballewWhen the 11.10 cd's come I will be going over there to deliver some to him02:09
pleia2great, I'll be shipping them out tomorrow both to you and iheartubuntu02:09
pleia2already gave mountain view and berkeley their stashes02:09
pleia2I'll send some down to nhaines as well02:09
iheartubuntuthe last pasadena ubuntu hour had 8 people. jbermudes, gaskin and i are considering the launch of an ubuntu hour in downtown LA soon enough02:10
pleia2iheartubuntu: nice!02:10
iheartubuntui dont know if maksim is here, but he has become a regular to the UH. and jbermudes is a stalwart of the UH for sure!02:11
pleia2:)02:11
pleia2that's pretty much all I had meeting-wise02:11
pleia2any announcements?02:11
pleia2the Ubuntu Developer Summit is coming up in a week, both Darkwing and I will be there02:12
iheartubuntugood luck you two02:12
pleia2thanks :)02:12
jtatumif anyone wants adhesive backed vinyl ubuntu decals, let me know.02:12
pleia2jtatum: I put one on my netbook, it's neat :)02:12
jtatumthey look pretty cool on laptops and cars02:12
philipballewOrlando sounds fun02:13
iheartubuntuphoto? sounds interesting :)02:13
iheartubuntuahh before people leave02:13
pleia2lemme take a picture, sec02:13
iheartubuntui'll be setting up a CA team order from the Ubuntu Store soon02:13
philipballewjtatum, I am interested02:13
philipballewiheartubuntu, I might want to snag a t-shirt02:14
iheartubuntui dont know if any new Ocelot stuff is in yet, i'll wait until those show up02:14
iheartubuntusome great sale items too on shirts02:14
jtatumphilipballew: shoot me an email and we'll work out the details :)02:14
iheartubuntumy meerkat shirt gets lots of comments02:14
philipballewthats what i was thinking02:14
* philipballew opens gmail02:15
pleia2iheartubuntu: oh good, I might get some things too02:16
pleia2iheartubuntu: any word on a gaming night?02:16
pleia2the decal: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6274626675/02:17
iheartubuntui havent really had time to test games. it is very difficult work you must understand :)02:17
pleia2ubuntu women one :)02:17
pleia2iheartubuntu: hehe, no problem, just curious :)02:17
philipballewiheartubuntu, if you need help testing games let me know02:17
iheartubuntuif anyone wants to work with me on game night ideas, IM me or email please.02:18
iheartubuntui'll have some sort of plan in two weeks then.02:18
pleia2great!02:18
pleia2anything else?02:18
jledbettergame night sounds fun02:19
pleia2:)02:19
seidoshi everybody.  is there a possible intersection with ubuntu and the occupy $location movement?02:19
* iheartubuntu looks for bingo in software center02:19
pleia2seidos: is this a quesetion for our meeting, or something for after?02:19
akkoccupy hard drives!02:19
iheartubuntuoccupy my mortgage pelase02:19
seidospleia2: either way02:20
pleia2ok, let's wrap up then and take that to discussion after :)02:20
pleia2thanks for coming everyone!02:20
jledbetter+102:20
iheartubuntuN - 3402:20
pleia2#endmeeting02:20
jledbetterbingo02:20
iheartubuntuhaha02:20
pleia2lol02:20
jledbetterpleia2, Thanks for runnin' it02:20
iheartubuntudanke pleia202:21
philipballewW - 602:21
pleia2last meeting of the day \o/02:21
pleia2now I get to go build office furniture :)02:21
jledbetterfun :)02:21
pleia2it's a big 3d puzzle!02:21
seidosbuild office furniture...start fight club02:21
iheartubuntuW?02:21
seidosN?02:21
jledbetterphilipballew, You sank my battleship!02:21
iheartubuntuO - 6802:21
seidos-68?02:22
seidoslol02:22
philipballewjledbetter, battleship! a possible game idea!!!02:22
iheartubuntui wish GNU backgammon was multiplayer02:22
jledbetterphilipballew, ;)02:22
jledbetterActually was thinking of coding battleship with HTML5/JS/etc. It's on my list anyway after about 15 other things.02:23
jledbetterNot really Ubuntu though except I'd be developing *on* Ubuntu ;)02:23
seidosi want to work on a star wars card game02:23
seidosi was at target today and they didn't have one :(02:24
akkI want more word/math/memory games.02:24
seidosit's all stats, really02:24
seidosi want more kinesthetic games02:24
seidosmaybe a hybrid kinesthetic/word/math/memory game02:25
iheartubuntuone page about ubuntu and bingo .. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=48456002:25
jledbetterakk, Doable as well02:25
iheartubuntusomeone made a game, but its not running in terminal for me02:25
seidosheh, i made a black jack game02:25
philipballewakk lights out is a cool challenge game02:26
seidosi think i still have that "OS wars" game that i worked on ages ago02:26
seidosi tried to put classes into it though and it probably doesn't run anymore02:26
* akk looks up lights out ... yeah, puzzle games like that are fun too02:26
akkI downloaded a couple collections of puzzle games, but, er ... it turrs out I'm not smart enough for a lot of them. :)02:27
seidosare you good at sudoku?02:27
akkI'm pretty good at the easy level of sudoku ... haven't tried the harder levels much.02:27
akkAnd I've been doing a lot of 5x5 calcdoku lately, but I'm not good enough to do 6x6 yet.02:28
* philipballew stops procrastinating and does his homework02:29
akkand Word Drop, though it's a little frustrating because there's no doc on what the rules are, how scores are calculated.02:29
seidosi can do sudoku, but i'm not fast at it, even on easy02:30
seidosi would rather write a story02:30
akkWriting fiction is on my 2-do list and I never quite get there.02:30
seidosor read one.  i'm sure sudoku has benefits but i'm not sure what, perhaps it improves organizational capability02:31
akkI'd like to find a puzzle game like that that actually improved mental math skills.02:31
iheartubuntuim reading howard shultz book about running starbucks. very interesting02:31
iheartubuntu(so far)02:31
akkI thought calcdoku might, but the math is so simple that it doesn't much.02:31
seidosi think investigating the Universe is a great math puzzle02:32
seidosand measurement puzzle02:32
iheartubuntutrying to step up my articles on iheartubuntu02:32
seidossetting up a way to measure say the speed of a hot wheel i found challenging02:33
akkAre those games, or do you mean actually investigating the universe, like with telescope data?02:33
seidosiheartubuntu: yeah, i don't think i've seen anything on your site in awhile02:33
seidosthe universe is all around you.  hot wheels are a part of it.02:33
* akk is down to one blog post a week because of the darned AI/ML classes, but I'm dropping AI so maybe I'll get that back up02:34
iheartubuntuseidos... ive been doing more articles the past couple weeks.02:34
iheartubuntutrying to focus on programs right now02:34
seidosakk: i did think about seeing if i could get access to a astronomical database to build reports on it, but it didn't seem feasible02:34
seidosiheartubuntu: i just installed fedora1502:34
iheartubuntugpodder, ailusus, glabels, etc02:34
akkAstronomers are getting a lot better about putting datasets online, though JPL programs still lag.02:34
iheartubuntuhow do you like it?02:34
akkA lot of non-JPL NASA stuff is online.02:35
iheartubuntui notice ubuntu studio has gone to xfce02:35
seidosiheartubuntu: i like it a lot02:35
iheartubuntumuch different than ubuntu02:35
seidoslike jim carrey would say, in dumb and dumber :P02:35
iheartubuntu?02:35
seidosiheartubuntu: it uses gnome3, so i guess yes02:35
seidosakk: i was kind of looking for a .sql dump file that i could import into mysql02:35
seidosi dunno, that would probably be a pain.  running sql queries from a terminal is kind of old school02:36
iheartubuntuhow do u like gnome3 compared to unity?02:36
akkMost astronomical datasets I've looked at, you need to parse02:36
seidosiheartubuntu: i like it better02:36
akkbut they're very easy to parse, usually02:36
akke.g. space-separated numbers02:36
iheartubuntucan you do the regular gnome2 look?02:36
seidosakk: i don't really feel like doing much of anything alone.02:36
akkLots of programs can read space-separated columns of numbers already, without you even needing to write a parser.02:36
seidosiheartubuntu: not sure.02:37
iheartubuntuwhat package manager does it use02:37
seidosiheartubuntu: oh yeah, i think so.  it uses yum02:37
seidosi think i'd rather dig through a garbage can with a true friend, than sit and play $game alone02:38
iheartubuntuany program i see on the net usually has debs though02:38
iheartubuntunot yum packages02:38
iheartubuntuarent you limiting yourself?02:38
seidosi installed debian, too02:38
seidosnot for what i need to do02:38
seidosiheartubuntu: i can install debian if i need it, but i haven't found a need to switch02:39
akkI still see RPMs pretty often (which is what you'd use on fedora).02:39
seidosyeah, chrome has an rpm02:39
iheartubuntuif it didnt have rpm, how would u install? compiling?02:39
iheartubuntuwunderlist for example.02:40
seidosif i didn't have a .deb how would i install?  compiling?02:40
epsDon't you miss the good old days of  ./configure;make;make install ?02:40
akkWhat's to miss? I still do that pretty often.02:41
seidosi do it somewhat, and 99% of the time it doesn't compile02:41
seidosit must be because i'm not a card carrying computer scientist02:42
iheartubuntui have never had much luck compliling02:42
iheartubuntuthere are always errors02:43
seidosthere's always some dependency missing or out of date02:43
akkIt does help to have a lot of development libraries installed on your system already (I'm guessing that's what you're hitting)02:43
akkand to have some experience interpreting obscure build errors.02:43
seidosi think it's an issue with knowing where to get the dependencies, the build errors are pretty clear02:43
akkI'm kind of surprised how bad configure is about failing to detect missing prerequisites, considering what a huge bloated hard-to-use mess it is.02:43
iheartubuntui did compile something recently. and only becuase the instructions clearly pointed out the exact dependencies i would need02:43
seidosi don't get why configure make and make install are necessary02:44
seidosand why gcc isn't used02:44
seidosi've never compiled a multi file program before with gcc though02:44
seidosi mean, without configure, make, make install02:45
seidosi assume gcc is called in there somewhere02:45
akkgcc is called during make02:45
seidosmakes sense02:45
seidosnot cents though :P02:45
akkThe configure step is to figure out missing dependencies (obv. it's not very good at that) and to figure out what kind of system you're on02:45
akke.g. if you're on a mac or a sun or something, some things may need to be compiled differently.02:46
seidosi remember someone saying they wanted to take ./configure and make it just do uname -a or something02:46
seidosyeah, what kernel is being used02:46
akkI actually don't use configure for my C programs -- I have a couple of much simpler scripts inside the makefile to figure out where to find the gtk libraries.02:46
akkBut on a bigger, more complex program there are too many things you need to adjust.02:47
seidosi'm using 2.6.38.6-26.rc102:47
akkVery few programs care what kernel is running -- unless you're building a kernel driver.02:47
seidosi would think that would be necessary information02:47
akkNot at all.02:48
akkConsider: you can take your ubuntu system and upgrade to a different kernel02:48
akkbut all the existing software doesn't stop working and need to be recompiled.02:48
seidosi did that once, and vbox stopped working02:48
akkThe kernel only handles low-level stuff, like, if you call read(), how does that file handle get mapped to a disk device and how do you get bits from the disk device.02:48
seidosso i guess it's one of the programs that cares02:49
akkvirtualbox is one of the few programs that does care02:49
seidosi would think the compiler would care what kernel is being used02:49
akkbut it only cares because part of vbox is a kernel module, so it needs to get a new module for each new kernel you use02:49
akk(I'm not entirely clear on why it needs a kernel module, but that's how they wanted to implement things)02:49
akkWhy would the compiler care?02:50
seidosit may be luck of the draw, what about compiling a program on a much older kernel, then trying to run it on the newer kernel, or vice versa02:50
akkThe compiler's job is to read lots of text (C programs and headers) and translate that into machine code.02:50
akkSo it needs to know what processor it's on, so it can generate the machine code.02:50
akkBut it relies on system calls to do kernel-level things like read from disk.02:51
seidosit's not possible to isolate the library issue to say for sure02:51
akkUsually the problems you'll see with a much older kernel are that some libraries won't work, not that higher level programs won't compile.02:51
seidosat least not to my satisfaction02:51
akkE.g. if you have a program that uses the udev library, and you try to run it on a system so old that there is no udev02:52
akkthen depending on how well the udev library is written, it may fail gracefully or it may dump core.02:52
seidosis this computer science 201?02:54
seidosor are we talking upper division stuff?02:54
akkI wouldn't know, I never majored in computer science and they didn't let nonmajors take those courses.02:54
seidosso what about the AI courses you're taking?02:54
akkThat actually is a CS course. And actually I took one other one, way back as a freshman.02:55
akk(though I'm taking ML, not AI)02:56
seidosML?02:56
akkmachine learning02:56
seidosso you're taking CS courses now?02:56
seidosthat's interesting, i should probably take some course, but i've been super busy lately02:57
akkI'm taking the free online stanford cs course, yes.02:57
epsLink please02:57
akkml-class.org (and also ai-class.com and, I think, db-class.org)02:57
seidosi need to find a decent group of people to work with though, i'm not sure i could find that online03:01
seidosi think that's one of the issues with occupy $location, when i think about it, it's pretty hard to find out where to meet ppl03:02
seidosespecially without cents03:02
eps"there's an app for that"03:02
akkThe nice thing about the stanford online classes is that there are like 60,000 people taking them (worldwide)03:02
seidosi have considered navigating through los angeles' religious community03:02
akkso it's pretty easy to find groups who want to discuss it03:02
seidosin person akk?03:02
akkThere are a bunch of in-person groups around CA, though I haven't been to one yet.03:03
akk(There was a get-together today but I went hiking instead)03:03
seidosthat sounds cool.  i wonder if usc has something like that for so cal03:03
akkNobody has anything like that, afaik. Stanford is the first to try it.03:03
akkLots of unis have lecture videos, but all you can do is watch them on your own, there's no schedule or homework or community.03:04
seidoswell, it's all pretty obscure.  i just found out Stanford had it03:04
akkIt was all over slashdot and the rest of the tech press when they were announced, a couple months ago.03:04
seidosthat's odd, i follow slashdot's tweets03:04
seidosdon't recall seeing it, but if i had, i probably wouldn't have given it much attention03:05
seidosi pretty much assume a lack of community, and Stanford is far from me03:05
akkhttp://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/08/04/1646210/stanford-intro-to-ai-course-offered-free-online and http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/09/06/134236/stanford-ai-class-beta-for-commercial-launch03:06
akkIt's not oriented around stanford at all.03:06
akkI'm close to stanford, but this is an online thing -- they're not inviting us plebes to show up in the lecture hall. :)03:06
seidosand where are the local meetings held?03:06
seidosor where would they be held?03:07
akkI couldn't tell you where they are in your area. Around here, there's a group at hacker dojo, one or two in SF, I think one in Belmont or somewhere like that, one in Santa Cruz03:07
akkand some people trying to get together in the east bay but I'm not sure if that's happened03:07
seidosis there a book?03:09
akkAnd nearly every tech group I'm a member of has had people asking "anybody here taking the classes and want to form a study group?"03:09
seidosi have found tech groups around here aren't really for me, at least not yet, anyway03:09
akkincluding this channel -- gua was talking here on Sep 20 about setting up a google group to discuss in-person meetups in california (and did, it's http://groups.google.com/group/ai-ml-db-classes-ca)03:09
akkThe AI class has a book. ML doesn't, and I know nothing about DB.03:10
seidosi should probably see if UCLA has something.  i was looking at Terrence Tao's site.  i noticed there is not book, all the information is online03:11
akkIf they do, tell me about it, because I've never heard of anyone doing this besides Stanford.03:11
akkI'm hoping the experiment is successful and it leads to a whole slew of free or cheap online classes.03:12
seidosi've actually considered crashing the local community colleges here03:13
akkcommunity colleges are awesome -- I've taken a lot of classes there03:13
seidosi mean, every community college should have a "community space" as far as i'm concerned03:13
akkbut the problem is they're all beginner classes, you can't take anything that's advanced03:14
seidosi've taken a few03:14
seidosyeah, that is an issue for me03:14
akkThat's why I'm so jazzed about the stanford classes -- they're upper division, with prerequisites and math and everything.03:14
seidostoo bad they lock down their wifi networks, it should be possible to get on their network as a visitor, or a member of the community03:15
akkWhose network -- community colleges?03:15
seidosi haven't checked west la or santa monica's networks yet03:15
seidosyeah03:16
epsA lot of universities let you "audit" classes (if there's space available). And don't underestimate the value of watching online videos, e.g. http://webcast.berkeley.edu/03:16
seidosi mean, go to the community college with notebook, take ai course from stanford while sitting at cc's library03:16
akkAt SJCC, there are handouts in the library with the password to the wifi.03:16
akkBut it's probably easier to go to a public library if all you need is net access.03:16
seidosi should check out west la when i have time03:16
seidosno, what i need is community03:17
seidosit's hard to make friends when you can't really talk03:17
akkAh, IC. I'm not too good at striking up friendships with random people who just happen to be sitting nearby. <- nerd03:17
seidosi guess that would still be a problem at a community college as well03:17
seidosmaybe the student union then03:18
seidosi never said anything about being good at it, but i have been known to try from time to time03:18
akkFor me it would work better to check the mailing lists for nearby meetups, then go talk to people who are already taking the same class.03:19
seidosactually, that reminds me of this "green" thing, but they wanted a $20 donation03:20
seidosi guess i'm just trying to fast track connecting with who i'm supposed to be connected with, locally03:20
seidosat Crashspace, without a membership it is pointless going03:20
seidosso that's out.  all that's really left are community colleges and religious organizations03:22
seidosi should try to figure out why aquaman's hair stays so plush despite how frequently it is wet.  peace.03:37
* bkerensa yawns and passes out08:14
YendisLoremGreetings ... was just hoping for any input on getting 11.10 back to a 10.04 GUI.  Can't stand Unity13:38
Darkwingjono ping15:32
jonohey Darkwing15:32
DarkwingHey Jono, do you have any XL Severed Fifth T-Shirts?15:32
jonoDarkwing, I think we are out now15:33
jonosorry, pal15:33
DarkwingBugger. Okay. :) I'll see you on Sunday.15:34
DarkwingI get to Orlando at 17:1515:36
iheartubuntuhi all. is there any way i can monitor which IP address at my work is downloading the most data? i have access to the dsl modem and the wifi router.16:20
nhainesDepending on what you mean by "monitor", "downloading," and what the wifi router is running, then yes.  Although most business-class access points should have something built in I would imagine.16:24
bkerensahttp://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ln21o/uefi_headaches_begin_for_linux_users/16:24
bkerensaapparently quite a few Ubuntu users have run into issues with UEFI already16:25
iheartubuntuits my fam biz. im suspecting one of our workers is downloading movies (netflix?) and i want to find out which IP it is. i havent been in the router page for a long time, but i know i can see which computers are connected to it. not sure what else data i can get16:26
nhainesNeither am I.  You'd have to give the router model and firmware revision before anyone could attempt to answer that.16:27
bkerensaiheartubuntu: Depends on the model of routers and what firmware it is running16:27
bkerensa^16:27
nhainesbkerensa: high five!16:27
iheartubuntui'd love to be able to see which IP is downloading the most content and or which sites were visited in the last few hours16:27
akkI don't think most consumer routers let you get that sort of info. But if you stuck a linux machine in there acting as a router, you could probably see a lot more.16:28
bkerensaWell depending on the model some routers support it out of box16:28
nhainesakk: with Tomato I can get some pretty good stats.  :)  But not per-device, I don't think.16:28
bkerensaotherwise if your router can support a alt firmware that works too16:28
iheartubuntuits a netgear wifi. i have workers allowed to do wifi and family members i have hard wired in16:28
* bkerensa likes DD WRT16:28
bkerensa:)16:28
bkerensasome like Tomato or OpenWRT16:28
bkerensa:D16:28
* nhaines refuses to use DD-WRT.16:28
iheartubuntuand its a pretty old router16:28
nhainesiheartubuntu: okay, well, if you can provide the information we asked for, maybe we can help out.16:29
bkerensa:D16:29
nhainesbkerensa: DD-WRT is powerful, but the way they're breaking the GPL to make their product is reprehensible.  So I go without.16:30
akkWe have a consumer linksys, and it does give any stats -- you can't even get the total amount downloaded (like if you're curious if you're near quota).16:30
nhainesiheartubuntu: incidentally, what is the problem being caused by excessive downloading?16:30
nhainesakk: yeah, my Linksys WRT-54G v2 rocks with Tomato.  Not so much with the default firmware.  :)16:31
iheartubuntuthe internet is dog slow now for everyone16:31
akkYeah, we use tomato at work (running on a linux box, not a consumer router).16:31
bkerensa;)16:31
bkerensaneed some QoS16:31
iheartubuntuok, its a linksys WRT54G@ v1.516:31
iheartubuntuWRT54G216:32
iheartubuntuwhat is tomato? a firmware patch?>16:32
nhainesIt's a firmware.16:32
nhainesbkerensa: every time I turn on QoS it breaks everything.16:33
bkerensaWRT54G is excellent with WRT54G in fact they are made to work together nice16:33
bkerensaand trample the GPL at the same time16:33
bkerensa:D16:33
bkerensanhaines: Yeah I dont use QoS at all but it works for some people16:33
iheartubuntucan tomato be installed from a linux box?16:33
akkbkerensa: I'm still trying to figure out, from reading the article and the reddit comments, what actually happened, what the error was.16:33
bkerensa?16:34
nhainesiheartubuntu: yes?16:34
bkerensaoh16:34
akkIt would be useful for people to know what happens, how to tell if it happens to them, etc. ... and that might help in letting other people help find a solution.16:34
bkerensaakk: They couldnt install Ubuntu16:34
akkbkerensa: "couldn't install" covers about 10,000 different possibilities.16:34
nhainesiheartubuntu: why don't you just go look at everyone's screen when the Internet gets slow?16:34
nhaines!work bkerensa16:34
EurekaFactoid work bkerensa not found16:34
nhainesboo16:34
* bkerensa will ask James and see what the exact error was but it was related to UEFI/GPT16:34
nhaines!work > bkerensa16:35
Eurekabkerensa, please see my private message16:35
nhainesMaybe I should've used a pipe.16:35
nhaines!work | bkerensa16:35
Eurekabkerensa: Doesn't work is a strong statement. Does it sit on the couch all day? Does it want more money? Is it on IRC all the time? Please be specific! Examples of what doesn't work tend to help too.16:35
iheartubuntunhaines - ive done that. i would like some statistical proof i can print out as well16:35
nhainesyay16:35
* nhaines has a favorite factoid, if nobody noticed.16:35
nhainesiheartubuntu: that's different than what you originally asked.16:36
akknhaines: It's a good factoid :)16:36
iheartubuntumaybe i can print something out or take screenshots of the data16:36
akkiheartubuntu: Set up cron jobs (or equivalents on other OSes) to take screenshots every 5 min. :)16:38
akkOr a cron job that looks at open network links every 5 min.16:38
bkerensaBetter idea is to get a cheap box16:40
bkerensainstall IPCop on it16:40
bkerensaand route traffic through it16:40
bkerensado some traffic shaping :D16:40
nhainesI don't understand.  Are you trying to figure out who is slowing down the network or are you trying to fix the bandwidth problem or do you already know and are you trying to build a case to fire them?16:41
iheartubuntuyes :)16:41
iheartubuntui suspect who it is16:41
iheartubuntuso the data will be helpful16:42
bkerensareserve them a static ip and then port block them except for 8016:42
bkerensa;)16:42
iheartubuntuasking them not to do netflix worked the first couple times.16:42
bkerensathen QoS their MAC to lowest priority16:42
bkerensa:D16:42
iheartubuntuas a start im probably just going to block netflix16:42
iheartubuntubut would like to get the data i need first16:43
iheartubuntudo all routers have qos?16:43
iheartubuntugood idea thanks16:43
nhainesiheartubuntu: only $400+ business routers.16:43
iheartubuntudang16:43
nhainesThis reminds me why I want to start up consulting again.16:44
nhainesI'd have already sold you a new router with Tomato on it.  :P16:44
akkDownload one copy of Mary Poppins, then hack the router so that when his IP requests any movie, he gets another copy of MP.16:45
nhainesakk: feed the birds?16:45
iheartubuntuthanks everyone. i have a few directions i can try now16:48
kdubsorry for missing that america's membership board meeting :-/, was in rural ohio17:32
pleia2kdub: there is always next month :) we were just concerned because you seemed eager the day before to get testimonials in for the meeting17:36
kdubyeah, i was, but i had no internet access at the time of the meeting17:36
kdubnext month17:37
* bkerensa should start an WISP in Rural Ohio17:48
bkerensa:D17:48
nhainesBetween, SCaLE, Ubucon, some other stuff I want to work on, and NaNoWriMo, the next 4 months are kind of shot.  :P17:50
kdubwhats a wisp?17:58
BotenAnnaso um my ubuntu theme spontaneously changed to a white theme18:00
BotenAnnawtf18:00
nhainesBotenAnna: your video card hates textures.18:11
BotenAnnapossibly, but i'm on gnome classic18:14
nhainesMutter hates textures?18:15
BotenAnnawhats a mutter18:16
nhainesNothing, what's the mutter with you?18:18
BotenAnnaHA!18:20
BotenAnnaanyway logging out and logging back in fixed it18:20
BotenAnnabut that seems like such a Windows solution to the problem. I wonder what happened.18:20
bkerensakdub: Wireless ISP18:50
bkerensa:)18:50
kdubah, ok18:50
nhainesBotenAnna: do you have stairs in your house?18:53
BotenAnnajust small ones going down in to the back room :V .....:V19:03
BotenAnna16:43 < iheartubuntu> do all routers have qos?20:24
BotenAnna16:43 < nhaines> iheartubuntu: only $400+ business routers.20:24
BotenAnnato be fair this is technically wrong but SPOILER ALERT: sub $100 routers with QoS suck20:24
BotenAnnaI got a Linksys/Cisco E3000 and put Tomato USB on it and couldn't be happier20:24
nhainesBotenAnna: I have a friend who needs a new router and is very okay with the idea of one runnign Linux.  I wasn't sure if the E3000 could run Tomato.  So cool.20:26
BotenAnnaI'm really loving mine. Only downsides is no external antenna (but decent range anyway) and that it can get quite hot under heavy use20:26
BotenAnnahence why as you may have noticed mine has its own little spot on the desk with some space around it20:27
BotenAnnai kind of want to mount it on the wall but that's effort20:27
nhainesBotenAnna: also iheartubuntu refused to provide a router make/model and firmware revision, so my general advice stands.  :P20:27
nhainesAlso, find a stud.  Don't be lazy!20:27
BotenAnnai guess evan is kind of a stud. other than that, 3 girls so.....20:28
nhainesBonus also: Also http://xkcd.com/952/20:28
BotenAnnaid really have to get the opinion of a straight girl or gay guy (or bi/pan anyone) on whether or not evan is a stud tho :V20:29
nhainesI'm none of those, and my opinion is he's all right.  :P20:30
BotenAnnastud has such a sexual connotation though!20:30
nhainesEh.  :)20:30
BotenAnnai guess he's kind of dating someone now? h20:30
BotenAnnamaybe i should ask her, ha20:30
nhainesShe might be biased.  Also: Ubuntus.20:31
nhaines5-year desktop support for precise is pretty nice.20:31
nhainesIt's going to make my presentations a *lot* easier this year.20:32
BotenAnnaoh yeah you asked about that20:32
BotenAnnaidk much about it but sounds cool!20:32
BotenAnnaguess my vps will run that for 5 years, ha20:32
BotenAnnais the next lts going to be 5 years off?20:32
nhaines2 years, as always.20:32
nhainesPreviously, desktop support was only 3 years and server support was 5 years.20:33
BotenAnnaah so it's just the desktop support getting bumped up?20:33
BotenAnnajust hope they can cash the check they're writing and slam out a good version of unity :)20:33
nhainesSo with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, it's new hardware support for 2 years, and maintenance updates for 5 years, for both server and desktop stuff.20:33
nhainesBotenAnna: Unity 4.22 is pretty nice.20:34
BotenAnnai will be stoked if they release something wherein unity doesnt crap its pants and offer no real recourse when you have two differently-sized monitors (and an nvidia card)20:34
BotenAnnaas that is A Problem i continuously run into20:35
BotenAnnaomg this is the best question http://askubuntu.com/questions/71634/security-exploits-affecting-login20:36
BotenAnnawait I thought they were upset that they got a login prompt at ctrl+alt+f420:36
nhainesNothing like clicking buttons.  :)20:37
BotenAnnaeither this is an old, old bug or they are doing something really dumb20:37
BotenAnna1) they're using 10.0420:37
akkA login prompt on the alternate consoles will still need a password.20:37
BotenAnnawell what they're saying is that they are switching user and then if they drop to console and come back they're logged back in20:37
nhainesBotenAnna: they're not logging out, they're using Switch User.20:38
nhainesHe doesn't realize he's on VT8 at that point.  He could just go straight to VT7 and get his desktop.20:38
nhainesSo he needs to set a password and/or enable screen locking on screen saver.20:38
BotenAnnaoh hey20:38
BotenAnnait still does this on 11.1020:38
BotenAnnaand yeah I'm writing an answer to that effect20:39
nhainesIt's supposed to.20:39
nhainesNOTABUG WONTFIX20:39
nhainesSwitch User != logout.  It means "don't log out but let someone else use the computer."20:39
akkIt is sort of surprising that both accounts would be usable without password at the same time.20:40
BotenAnnayeah that seems odd20:40
nhainesUbuntu traditionally locks the screen using gnome-screensaver20:40
akkyeah, it's quite difficult to make it *not* prompt for a password.20:41
BotenAnnahelp i want to learn erlang but its hard20:44
BotenAnnai have to like, think differently20:44
BotenAnnaI can't use "lock screen" because it aventualy freeze by desktop, & the only release is the "reset" button. – Goldy 15 secs ago20:50
akkI used to get lots of freezes from screensavers, with a machine that had DRI problems (a lot of screensavers are 3-D).20:51
BotenAnnai am not updating past 10.04 until there is a SERIOUS update, all they did was add a thing! yet i am very upset that lock screen locks up my computer!21:14
BotenAnnalol that guy21:14
BotenAnnawell, whatever21:14
nhainesheh21:14
nhainesYeah, I've had a few systems die on 3D screensavers.21:14
nhainesWell, GNOME3 fixed that problem!  :V21:15
kdublinux display needs an overhaul...21:15
BotenAnnalast time someone said that about sound21:15
BotenAnnaand it um21:15
BotenAnnadidn't end well21:15
BotenAnnabe careful!21:16
nhaineshaha21:16
nhainesWayland!21:16
nhainesThere's nothing wrong with PulseAudio anyway.  It just turns out that ALSA was buggy and nobody knew.21:16
BotenAnnahey dawg i heard you liked virtual audio drivers on top of your virtual audio drivers, so i put a virtual audio driver inside your virtual audio driver so you could virtual audio driver WHILE YOU VIRTUAL AUDIO DRIVER21:16
nhainesBotenAnna: Oh, did you hear about Linux 3.1?  You can run nested virtual machines now.21:17
BotenAnna*cue me having to do some weird terminal command (alsamixer I think... so intuitive!) to have to bump up sound volume above 1% to be able to hear anything. don't ask how long it took me to find this.)21:17
nhainesAlso it natively supports the Wii remote.  <321:17
BotenAnnahaha21:17
BotenAnnawaggle your funroll loops21:18
nhainesTRANSLTION: if Ubuntu 12.04 LTS ships with Linux 3.1, I've found a new magic presentation machine.21:18
BotenAnnafor fun mode, install andf ully configure gentoo using only a wii remote21:18
BotenAnnaor arch or lfs21:19
nhainesCan you type 'sudo apt-get instal gentoo' with the Wii remote?21:19
BotenAnnaof course you can21:19
BotenAnnaspoiler: might not satisfy requirements of completing challenge21:20
BotenAnnaoh hey there is a package called gentoo21:20
BotenAnnaidk what it does, hopefully nothing bad because i installed it rofl21:20
nhainesThat's the spirit!21:21
BotenAnnaOH GOD WHY AM I FUNROLLING LOOPS AND HAND-EDITING XORG.CONF21:22
BotenAnnalast time I tried to use gentoo the installer was completely broken and had been for a while21:22
BotenAnnawonder if they've bothered to fix that yet21:22
nhainesBotenAnna: I think that's all part of the test.21:22
akkThe installer is traditionally the hardest part of gentoo.21:39
akkWish I could figure out why my linux systems keep losing track of mounted vfat partitions (e.g. "umount:  /mp3 mount disagrees with the fstab"21:47
akkI'm starting to think recent kernels have a bug in the vfat code.21:48
nhainesakk: NTFS might be a better bet.21:48
akkIt's not for a windows partition, it's for things like mp3 players, camera cards, my android tablet.21:48
akkHappens every couple weeks with the android thingie, but I just saw it on an mp3 player too.21:49
nhainesDoes vfat do FAT32 file systems as well?21:49
akkI'm not sure ... figure it's usually better to be conservative when dealing with random devices.21:49
akkThough I've been thinking about reformatting the android one to ext3 or ext4 and seeing if it gets any more reliable.21:50
nhainesandroid can handle ext3 and 4.  Not sure about NTFS.21:51
akkI can't imagine why I'd want to use ntfs for anything. Isn't the support for it still pretty ragged on linux?21:51
akkAny idea if android 1.6 can handle ext4? (I'll probably just try it and see ... as soon as I figure out where I put my extra microsd card.)21:52
nhainesakk: NTFS support has been stellar for years and years.21:53
nhainesUh, I think 1.6 ought to be able to handle ext4.21:53
nhainesIt's been a while, though.21:53
akkargh, it happened again -- all my copies came up "permission denied".22:00
akkafter the first I/O error22:00
* akk tries fsck.vfat -- that's the only thing that helps on the android device22:01
akkand btw, it's so annoying that fsck.vfat by default looks like it's making changes, but doesn't22:02
akk"there are differences between boot sector and its backup" ... any idea if it's better to copy backup to original or original to backup? I'm guessing the former.22:03
nhainesHm, no way to tell I think, without examining it.22:11
akkI ended up going for the latter because it was the first choice, so I thought maybe it was sort of default-ish.22:12
akkTurns out this isn't specific to vfat. Maybe it's a problem with writing to disks over USB.22:24
akkEverything will be going fine, then suddenly, umpteen lines of "Read-only file system" errors.22:25
nhainesOh?  Hm...22:28
akkend_request: I/O error, dev sdh, sector 265641 ... JBD2: I/O error detected when updating journal superblock for sdh1-8. ... Remounting filesystem read-only22:30
akkthis is a filesystem I just mkfs'ed five minutes earlier.22:31
akkOn a brand-new microsd card, never used.22:31
nhainesakk: could it be a bad USB port?22:31
akkI've seen similar behavior on both laptop and desktop, on both natty and debian squeeze.22:31
jtatumakk: you didn't happen to buy the card on ebay, did you?22:31
akk(though on squeeze it's always been with the android device)22:31
akkno, microcenter22:31
jtatumah. i asked because there's a bunch of fraud in flash media on the ebay22:32
akkfraud?22:32
jtatumyeah, you can put a larger capacity sticker on a small flash and update the firmware to make it appear [arbitrary size]22:33
akkhmm, interesting22:33
akkand I just remembered, I got a bad usb stick from microcenter a while back22:33
akkI wonder if they're selling crappy (or fradulent) flash?22:33
nhainesakk: not on purpose.22:33
akkWish I'd kept the packaging for this so I could return it.22:33
FaqtotumSD is a very proprietary format, and if you write even one bit outside the pre-formated FAT fs, it goes wonkers22:34
Faqtotumonly the toshiba-panasonic utility for windoze can restore22:35
jtatumthese are modified to happily write to (0..actual capacity) and return no errors for (actual capacity+1..n). so if you do a quick test, they appear fine. longer tests, they also appear fine until you try to read the data ;)22:35
nhainesFaqtotum: I reformat SD cards all the time.  :P22:35
akkIs there a way to avoid hitting this? I'm obviously doing something that encourages errors, since I'm seeing them more and more often.22:36
akk(Though the mp3 player problem wasn't an SD card, it's a standalone player with its own flash.)22:37
akkSome way to put the linux drivers in "don't overwrite the magic endpoint" mode?22:38
jtatumfdisk i'd suppose. this tool might help: http://oss.digirati.com.br/f3/22:40
nhainesakk: if your partition table seems within the advertised bounds, you should be fine.22:43
jtatumyes, since it's probably not a fake flash. but just to clarify on these counterfeit ones, the partition table is within the advertised bounds (way too large for the actual media)22:45
akkI tried that f3write tool -- and it failed on the first attempt to write a file, went read-only immediately.22:47
akk(this is after a new mkfs.vfat)22:47
akkpartition table as in /proc/partitions ?22:47
akk(or gparted or whatever)22:47
akkIt's supposed to be 2g and /proc/partitions says 1955840, so I guess that's okay.22:49
akk... and now /proc/partitions thinks I have a /dev/sdf connected that I don't actually have. I'm gonna reboot.22:56
nhainesakk: how's that?22:58
akksdf is gone now, anyway22:58
akkNow I'm going to try, in a different SD reader, mkfs.ext3 and copying stuff, and see if that works any better.22:59
akkNope, switched to read-only again.23:03
akkdmesg: "sd 5:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to offline device"23:04
nhainesDifferent computer?23:04
akkSame computer.23:04
nhainesno, I mean, might want to try a different computer.23:05
akkI love how there's no user-visible error, it'll just happily going on trying and filling up dmesg forever.23:05
akkI've gotten similar errors on my laptop too.23:05
akk(with the microsd in the android)23:05
akkbut I could try it now, easily enough23:05
nhainesThen try a different OS--it might be either Linux or the card itself.23:05
akkIt's so weird there's no good way to test these cards. Especially if it's that common that they're flaky or fraudulent.23:08
nhainesakk: it's not that common.23:09
akkI see the problem about once every two weeks in the card in the android device, but until now i'd been blaming it on an android 1.6 bug.23:10
akk(the archos is pretty flaky in general, so why not in its vfat writing?)23:11
nhainesSounds good to me.23:11
akkThis is not my day. The laptop started up X with no mouse control (fortunately, I can probably do all this in just the one xterm window).23:12
akkInteresting -- I managed to 329M to the card, far more than I've managed before.23:16
akkThough with an ext3 filesystem, the android says "Damanged SD card. You may have to format it."23:17
nhainesHmm.23:17
* akk goes back to the old vfat card and goes to dinner23:35
nhainesdinner!  \o/23:39

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