[00:53] <maco> the wiki page is not kept up to date with psychocats. it's 2 years behind. no reason to bother linking to it when the actual source is correct and updated
[00:53] <pangolin> !purekde is <reply> If you want to remove all !Gnome packages and have a default !Kubuntu system follow the instructions here « http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekde »
[00:54] <pangolin> !no purekde is <reply> If you want to remove all !Gnome packages and have a default !Kubuntu system follow the instructions here « http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/purekde »
[00:54] <pangolin> until someone decides to update the wiki
[00:54] <maco> id rather delete the wiki page
[00:54] <maco> there is no point in trying to keep the pages in sync
[00:55] <pangolin> I think the idea was to have factoids link to more "official" pages
[00:55] <maco> so make the wiki page a link to psychocats?
[00:56] <pangolin> that is a good idea too
[00:56] <maco> This is a landing page. The data you want is available from <link>
[00:56] <maco> probably annoying too though
[00:56] <pangolin> can't it redirect automagically
[00:57] <pangolin> ?
[00:57] <maco> if we had html or javascript... but i dont think it can redirect to anything other than other wiki pages
[00:57] <pangolin> linking to psychocats is fine by me.
[00:58] <maco> erm not normal html...the thing in <head> where you can redirect. i forget what its called
[00:58] <maco> a meta tag maybe
[00:58] <maco> but we cant edit the head anyway
[01:10] <Flannel> We've had psychocats links forever, they stay up to date, give a pretty balanced view, and give caveats (* acccurate as of the last time someone took the time to look)
[01:11] <pangolin> for what it is worth psychocats has never failed me when I have needed to to a pure*de cleanup
[01:11] <Flannel> Originally there were a few 'bad' pages, but the author was fairly receptive to criticism
[11:48] <jrib> I have to leave in a bit, but someone should keep an eye out for more ban evasion from fuzzylogic
[11:49] <Pici> I'll try, but no promises.
[15:11] <Pici> !helpersnack | mneptok
[15:12] <mneptok> ubottu !c is for cookie! that's good enough for me!
[15:13] <mneptok> (C is also for escaping lower level languages, but cookie monsters always use ASM, so ...)
[15:13] <Myrtti> right
[15:13] <Myrtti> at this point the discussion at #ubuntu reaches my break point
[15:14]  * mneptok is still 2 inputlines away from that point
[15:15] <mneptok> oh! i have to go uncover and wake pet birds! i get to bail, GUILT-FREE!
[15:15]  * mneptok tootles off
[15:15] <genii-around> It sucks that now the cookie monster can't just go crazy with the cookie-eating. They had to get responsible and make cookies a "sometimes snack". Watching him eat broccoli or so just isn't the same
[19:47] <guntbert> hi, after some talk with ikonia we both agreed that !java could use a better/different wording, after some thinking I found something I like better
[19:47] <guntbert> no !java is To just use java you need a "Java Runtime Environment" (JRE) and/or a browser plugin. If that is not sufficient you will need a "Java Development Kit" (JDK) aka "Software  Development Kit" (SDK).  Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java about how to install one of three current implementations.
[20:09] <LjL> !java
[20:09] <LjL> guntbert: is help.ubuntu.com up to date there now? i think that other page was put there because it was a bit crap
[20:10] <genii-around> And of course it's not even in the repos at all anymore so the current factoid is useless
[20:10] <guntbert> genii-around: it is not in the partner repos any more?
[20:10] <genii-around> Nope
[20:11] <LjL> uh, so people are just not supposed to use Java anymore, instead go with one of the half-working third-party implementations... or what?
[20:11] <guntbert> LjL: I'm not *that* sure about up-to-datedness
[20:12] <guntbert> but it mentions lucid...
[20:13] <LjL> it's all a bit sad. the wiki, the repos... :\
[20:15] <LjL> oh well
[20:15] <LjL> !no java is <reply> To just use java you need a "Java Runtime Environment" (JRE) and/or a browser plugin. If that is not sufficient you will need a "Java Development Kit" (JDK) aka "Software  Development Kit" (SDK).  Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java about how to install one of three current implementations.
[20:15]  * Pici elects LjL as wiki champion
[20:15] <LjL> @login
[20:15] <LjL> !no java is <reply> To just use java you need a "Java Runtime Environment" (JRE) and/or a browser plugin. If that is not sufficient you will need a "Java Development Kit" (JDK) aka "Software  Development Kit" (SDK).  Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java about how to install one of three current implementations.
[20:15] <genii-around>  There is a sun java for 11.10 in a PPA
[20:16] <Pici> That doesn't sound legal.
[20:16] <Pici> 16:16:17 <axisys> how do I install sun java ?
[20:16] <guntbert> LjL: thx - I'll  be on my way again :)
[20:17] <LjL> Pici: i have worked on the wiki a bit before, but honestly i guess the thing is that once it becomes very outdated (and for some reason it has become so), few people will even bother trying to fix it
[20:18] <LjL> i'm hardly going to overhaul a wiki that's all about Lucid and earlier myself
[20:18] <LjL> guntbert: yeah i know, it's not been changed. bot hates me :(
[20:18] <guntbert> back again - LjL your edit didn't take it seems
[20:18] <LjL> try now
[20:18] <guntbert> :)
[20:19] <guntbert> well done - bye
[21:03] <topyli> i'm pretty sure i have sun java, from the canonical partner repo
[21:14] <genii-around> topyli: Sure it's not openjdk-7-jre from universe instead?
[21:15] <topyli> i'm pretty sure it's sun java. let me check
[21:16] <topyli> yes sun-java6 packages
[21:18] <genii-around> topyli: http://paste.ubuntu.com/719192/
[21:24] <topyli> genii-around: i don't know. maybe you don't have the canonical partner repo enabled
[21:24]  * topyli tries to look again
[21:25] <genii-around> topyli: See lines 25,32,33...
[21:25] <topyli> archive.canonical.com - is that supposed to be it?
[21:25] <genii-around> Yup
[21:25] <genii-around> You likely have the remnants from when you installed on 10.04 or so
[21:26] <topyli> i don't know what's going on then. i certainly got mine from there, i didn't go to oracle
[21:29] <topyli> http://paste.ubuntu.com/719205/
[21:30] <Myrtti> ooer
[21:31] <topyli> i don't otherwise even care, but i happen to be a customer of a very stupid bank which has hanged itself into sun's stupid java
[21:38] <ikonia> it's a major issue for one of my clients who's application is only certified with Sun java
[22:05] <topyli> ikonia: that's the case with my bank too. they just won't work with icedtea
[22:07] <ikonia> topyli: this is a major telephony infrastructure provider, it was looking at bundling a linux workstation as part of it's managment tools install.
[22:08] <topyli> well, sun java is available. it's just an annoyance, shouldn't stop you
[22:08] <Pici> s/sun/oracle/
[22:08] <topyli> Pici: the java is still called sun java :)
[22:08] <Pici> :(
[22:09] <ikonia> topyli: well, it will stop ubuntu being an option (there where other issues too, but this is a show stopper)
[22:09] <ikonia> it's called Oracle java now
[22:09] <topyli> oh
[22:09] <ikonia> sad
[22:09] <topyli> the ubuntu package is still called sun-java*
[22:09] <ikonia> the little java man logo is dead
[22:10] <topyli> boo
[22:10] <ikonia> my heart is broken, the Sun logo was one of the best, the java man logo was fun, now it's just the cup of coffee or the oracle logo
[22:12] <topyli> i've never even cared much about java, in fact i've struggled with enough java apps which were terrible
[22:12] <topyli> but it's still sad to see it go like this
[22:12] <ikonia> heart breaking
[22:13] <topyli> sun's destiny as a whole is very sad
[22:13] <topyli> it's like a classic "rise and fall" story
[22:16] <topyli> not so many years ago, i was working on my university's sun workstations (and some irix ones too, for that matter). they were awesome. no more awesome unix workstations for topyli
[22:16] <topyli> just linux pc's
[22:18] <topyli> heh. i was no CS student or anything of course, i studied history. but i used to go to their computers and surf the web, and see how they work
[22:19] <topyli> we humanists just had dos and later win95 pc's.
[22:19] <topyli> at least dos worked, win95 taught me to save my documents often
[22:20] <topyli> bah, this is not a good channel for my nostalgia anyway. sorry