[01:52] hello! [01:54] looking for some opinions. Tried to install a server distribution of Linux on an old windows box I had. can't isntall/use any packages (including gksudo). think the system is referencing the wrong partition? [01:54] (I can ping web sites) [01:55] How do I top up a vodafone mobile donge (K3770) as they don't support Linux yet [05:27] [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Accomplishments System Spec - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/25/ubuntu-accomplishments-system-spec/ [05:27] [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Community Team Meeting Tomorrow - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/10/25/ubuntu-community-team-meeting-tomorrow/ [05:59] got 11.10! seems to work fine, i even have my desktop! [07:52] morning all [07:53] Morning MooDoo [08:04] Good porridge peeps :) [08:06] Wow [08:06] This is hot enough to rival a mcd's apple pie [08:11] Morning all! :) [08:16] morning [08:17] morning [08:25] Morning [08:30] i just discovered that windows servers cannot recover from a power outage because it requires a user interaction to click a box to tell it why the power went off! [08:30] oimon: We have the same thing at work [08:30] i'm staggered [08:30] good morning everyone. [08:31] Doesn't complete the boot process until you click the button for "Cleaner unplugged server, to plug in the hoover" [08:31] checked my list of VMs and all were showing alive, so wondered why my vmware backups didn't work [08:31] exactly [08:31] oimon: I love that box! Not one of the options for a reason is "Windows crashed", MS probably use it for their "uptime" statistics [08:31] luckily only 2 of my servers are running windows, otherwise, would be a very tedious life [08:33] just 1 windows server for me [08:33] * daubers has none \o/ [08:33] though there is a creaky old xserve that falls over occasionally in the building still :( [08:34] ironically the win servers are for managing vmware linux boxes :-\ [08:34] aloha [08:35] hello czajkowski [08:35] i use mine for backups and downloading :D [08:35] MooDoo: hows you ? [08:36] * daubers offers czajkowski a pistachio [08:36] czajkowski: very well thanks, tired as is expected, but ok [08:36] czajkowski: you ok? [08:36] yes bit sleepy woke at 2:30am [08:36] so kinda need a nap around now [08:37] czajkowski: want to come look after Rosie, she's awake at that time too :) [08:39] i woke up in the middle of the night yesterday, suddenly remembering that i'd turned the freezer off at 9pm so remove some ice build-up [08:40] oimon: ooops :) much defrosted? [08:40] fortuantely was all fine, since the freezer was so full of food [08:40] 8hrs off and no issues [08:41] result [08:41] but ur never more awake than when you wake up suddenly thinking about something like that [08:42] non-maskable interupt ftw [08:42] caveman and sabre tooth tiger entering his cave, and oimon and his defrosting food.. [08:46] * oimon has a day full of meetings :( [09:54] good morning all [09:55] o/ [10:04] Is there anyone here with life experience? [10:05] Who's been through it all, kind of thing? [10:05] ? [10:05] morning all [10:06] MooDoo: you photographic hippy you [10:06] Monsterwizard: i'm 40 married with 2 kids, does that count? [10:06] sup davmor2 [10:06] czajkowski: PROD! [10:06] Yes [10:06] davmor2: wut? [10:06] * czajkowski kicks davmor2 [10:06] MooDoo: wellll [10:06] my problem is, I'm afraid of failure [10:07] * davmor2 prods czajkowski ankle from the floor [10:07] Monsterwizard: then you're not going to get very far, we all fail from time to time [10:07] which has lead me to do nothing because I'm so scared to do it wrong [10:07] I agree :( [10:07] as long as you learn from your mistakes then you'll be fine. [10:09] For example, I'm doing a degree at the moment. Each time I open the text book I start shaking because I am scared I won't understand this [10:09] sounds like you need to relax and enjoy it a little more. [10:10] I wish I could [10:10] there are hundreds of things i don't understand, but i just tend to buckle down, concentrate and learn them, and if i can't then i ask for help......don't be scared to do that, there are always people around to help [10:11] remember even the most experienced people had to start somewhere [10:11] that sounds fairly extreme [10:11] what does? [10:11] For example, I'm doing a degree at the moment. Each time I open the text book I start shaking because I am scared I won't understand this [10:11] ah yeah [10:11] to quote from the film the matrix "sounds like you need to just unplug man" [10:12] i personally feel uneasy about situations i can't steer. i dislike losing control to external forces [10:12] I know it's melodramatic but it seriously got to me now [10:12] directhex: but i bet you know how to work around them [10:12] directhex: try driving on a skid-pan [10:12] the key step is in realising that if you can't affect it, there is absolutely zero difference in outcome between you worrying about it, and not worrying about it [10:12] Monsterwizard: you've been at uni a couple of months [if i remember rightly] go talk to a uni councellor? if they have them [10:13] i.e. i could worry about rising interest rates, or not worry. i can't affect them, so "don't worry" is clearly the winner [10:13] Yeah I think you're right [10:13] hang on this is UNI, i though uni was a non stop party ;) [10:13] directhex++ [10:14] there's an old saying "don't sweat the small stuff". i think this is completely wrong. it's the *big* stuff you shouldn't sweat. the small stuff is what you can control. the big stuff happens off in some ivory tower someplace [10:16] I just want to learn to relax and not care [10:17] not caring isn't quite the goal. the goal is to go from worrying about things to dealing with things [10:17] Anti-depressants can help [10:17] sometimes not worrying is worse, as things just pile up [10:17] some things in life just happen. you need to impassively work through life's randomness, or it can get to you [10:18] a million small issues can really get you down [10:18] Monsterwizard: failure is *always* an option [10:18] They help to control stress and allow me to prioritise things correctly [10:18] Monsterwizard: most of the time it doesn't even matter [10:18] yeah, that's good advice [10:18] i'd steer clear of psychotropics personally. failing is a much better option [10:18] Monsterwizard: you've usually got more than one shot at a thing [10:19] Monsterwizard: unless you're landing a passenger jet with damaged hydraulics, then you pretty much have to nail it first time [10:19] lol [10:19] I've made myself believe that this degree is the only option for me to become a programmer and if I fail I cannot be one [10:19] :// [10:19] Monsterwizard: how old are you? [10:20] 19 [10:20] Monsterwizard: i dont have a degree and im a senior developer [10:20] Monsterwizard: you don't need a degree to become a programmer [10:20] You have a lot of time ahead of you [10:20] Monsterwizard: what's your degree in? [10:20] Monsterwizard: I'm a senior web dev and never made it to uni [10:20] COmputer Science [10:21] I don't have a degree at all [10:21] in most jobs, experience is more valuable than credentials. thankfully, these days, you can develop an impressive portfolio of experience without even having a job, thanks to FOSS [10:21] Monsterwizard: you doing it at uni, or something like open uni/ [10:21] This makes me feel better, but isn't it the case that then 'newer' generation needs a degree to be a programmer? [10:21] deploying django on your own website isn't any different to deploying it to some corp website [10:21] Yeah I'm doing CS at uni [10:22] MonsterKiller: every generation has been told the same thing [10:22] MonsterKiller: you programmed before? [10:22] Monsterwizard: no, not in the least [10:22] Monsterwizard: get involved with an open-source project or two [10:22] MonsterKiller: the key really is experience. Live and breath computers from the age of 6 and you'll be just fine :) [10:22] Monsterwizard: find something cool that you like playing with [10:22] Monsterwizard, what we want at our company is people who love code. credentials are secondary. [10:23] Monsterwizard: do *not* do a Comp Sci degree, we already have enough "programmers" who spent four years using Haskell to develop a toy domain-specific language for solving Towers of Hanoi [10:23] lol [10:23] :D [10:23] Monsterwizard: study design instead [10:23] lol [10:23] But I won't be limited to what I did at Uni [10:24] most open-source software sucks, because designers are expensive [10:24] study haberdashery, then get a job at valve making tf2 hats [10:24] UI and UX design is crucial [10:24] it costs a *fortune* to get a UX designer [10:24] directhex: haha, need a new hat eh? [10:24] So suppose I fail this degree or get a low grade [10:24] even Canonical doesn't get it right [10:25] MonsterKiller: rewrites of exams are cheap :P [10:25] but I kept contributing to open source, would I be able to get a job as a programmer? [10:25] Monsterwizard: I do have a degree, but I'd earn more if I had a PSV licence [10:25] it's never too late to drive buses [10:25] heheh [10:25] Monsterwizard: i got a job due to my github profile, not even shown a CV [10:26] Monsterwizard, with a decent portfolio of FOSS work, you wouldn't even need the degree at all [10:26] * dogmatic69 does not have a CV per say [10:26] dogmatic69: nice, what's your username on github? [10:26] gordonjcp: take a guess [10:26] Monsterwizard, a degree says nothing about your skills as a programmer - but if people can inspect your work, they can go "whoa, this guy is good" or "man this guy sucks!" for themselves [10:26] How about big IT companies such as IBM and HP [10:26] github.com/dogmatic69 [10:26] I suppose they think it's essential [10:26] pmsl i remember doing a YTS at IBM :) [10:26] YTS? [10:27] Youth Training Scheme [10:27] dogmatic69: i'm old.....youth training scheme [10:27] ah [10:27] hehe [10:27] Monsterwizard: if I was hiring a programmer I'd want to see their work, and if they have some interesting projects on github then I'd definitely be more interested [10:27] Lorry driving pays more [10:27] all the people i interview have something on github, i would not call them in without it [10:28] dogmatic69: you're into cakephp then? [10:28] When I applied for the job I'm in, I submitted sites I'd built along with my CV. My CV's work experience was all in manual labour... [10:28] yep [10:28] gordonjcp: yep [10:28] oh, and arduino [10:29] I've found that CakePHP was the best framework to knock out a mostly working application in an afternoon [10:29] gordonjcp: my hobby... programming arduino :P [10:29] Monsterwizard, the firewall for most companies is the recruiter. recruiters know nothing of any of the things being asked for, and cannot make any assessment of candidate quality. recruiters will ask for 5 years' experience on graduate jobs. recruiters will ask for 10 years' experience for a language which was created 4 years ago. recruiters will mail the guy who created RoR and ask if he has ruby experience. [10:30] dogmatic69: why did you use a bunch of if...else instead of a switch statement for the autoranging? [10:30] Monsterwizard, any company with recruiters is a problem, no matter your qualifications and experience [10:30] bigcalm: if you know the conventions you can build a working app with one cmd in terminal [10:31] I agree with directhex. You should be interviewed by somebody who will be doing the same work as you really [10:31] gordonjcp: just bashed that together, spent maybe 10 hours on C code. coming from php its a bit of a shock to the system :/ [10:31] dogmatic69: also, why pin 13 for the backlight, and not say pin 9? [10:31] sorry, not 9, 6 [10:32] you want to be in an interview, and answer the "where do you want to be in 5 years" question by pointing to the senior developer and saying "i'll have his job" [10:32] directhex: heh [10:32] gordonjcp: there is a few updates ive not pushed yet. one of them was an abstracted 16x2 lcd lib i wrote [10:32] * gordonjcp finishes interviewing dogmatic69 [10:32] :D [10:33] directhex: in my case that was my boss. Which is actually where I am now really :S [10:33] * daubers has no degree and is more or less managing a programming team these days [10:33] bigcalm: ditto-ish, I'd been driving Lorries for a living for 15 years and then had to stop, started testing stuff and it was that that got me the job [10:33] Only failed uni 2 and a bit year ago [10:33] directhex: I had an interview once where one of the questions was "what kind of car would you have, and what kind of car would you like to have?" [10:33] directhex: (at the time) well, I've got a Nissan Micra, and I'd like a slightly newer one with a five-speed gearbox [10:33] MonsterKiller: have we made you feel any better? [10:33] nissan micra, ew [10:34] "you wouldn't want a jag or a BMW like that?" (interviewer gestures at a car in the carpark) [10:34] :P [10:34] gordonjcp: "only if you pay the fuel/tax costs" [10:34] not really, I like my Micra. It's reliable and bits for it are cheap, and it gets about 45mpg [10:34] I do feel a bit better ,yes thank you [10:34] gordonjcp, "why would i need a car, when i've made enough to buy a luxury airship?" [10:34] directhex: that too [10:35] I so wanted to buy Ark Royale when we where looking at new offices :( [10:35] "what car would you get if you had £1 million?" was another one [10:35] Would have been immense parked in the canal [10:35] I wouldn't [10:35] I'd put new tyres and suspension spheres on the Citroen, and buy a plane [10:37] *error* hangcheck timer elapsed...GPU hung :( [10:37] oimon: intel gpu? [10:37] Hi guys, just installing a new desktop for work, fglrx doesn't seem to be wanting to install, lspci shows ATI RV620 LE [Radeon HD 3450] [10:37] gordonjcp: yeah [10:38] oimon: that seems to happen a lot [10:38] error in /var/log/jockey.log WARNING: /sys/module/fglrx_updates/drivers does not exist [10:38] this is a fresh 11.10 install, was trying to just use the normal restricted drivers tool [10:38] intel driver isue it seems [10:39] ^ gordonjcp [10:40] wondering about using a newer driver, alhtough doesn't happen that often for me [10:40] when it does, it's bad..i lost a lot of work [10:42] oimon: I see it in the logs on Arch [10:42] oimon: I haven't been able to identify what causes it, and it seems to survive all the same [10:42] possibly the WDT kicks the GPU back to life [10:42] gordonjcp: what version of intel driver you on? [10:45] MooDoo: If you choose to sit on a chair of nails it will be a painful day dude, go nick a comfy chair sans nails when no one is looking [10:46] davmor2: i like nails. [10:58] hmm, seems i was choosing the fglrx (post release updates) entry in the restricted driver manager [10:58] got fglrx installed it seems,, but multihead display isn't working :( [10:58] am i better off sticking with open Radeon driver? [10:58] haven't dealt with an ATI card in quite a while [11:02] NET||abuse: you might need to use the ATI catalyst software to configure multihead [11:45] hahah, ok i've completely broken it, i purged away fglrx, now i can't get lightdm to restart [11:45] ::) [11:53] ok, so i restart the machine, i log in and now all i get is a blank desktop with file/edit/view/go/bookmarks/help menu, i think it's the nautilus menu, [11:54] but not icons on the desktop, no menu on the left, super key does nothing.. [11:54] i can open nautilus and see folders. [11:54] hehe, this is not fun [11:59] just tried Unity 2d, same view, simple file edit etc.. menu bar [11:59] ubuntu tries to continue working, get a notification popup. [12:00] just i killed the rest of my setup, how do i reset the drivers? [12:45] morning all [12:46] bit late there gord lol [12:46] its morning here :P [12:47] where are you? [12:48] morning eh.....so US? [12:48] yeah, preuds sprint thing [12:49] gord: I get there tomorrow [12:49] gord: did you go direct from Manchester by any chance? [12:49] davmor2, yeah [12:49] virgin atlantic [12:50] the plane has usb ports in the seat so you can recharge stuff :) [12:50] gord: that'll be the one :) Nice [12:50] gord: ah pre uds not preuds :) no wonder i couldn't google it [12:51] damnit,, had to re-install, unity was too messed up [12:51] MooDoo: no it's a new electric car by toyota ;) [12:51] won't charge my laptop though :( [12:52] davmor2: ah that explains it [12:52] gord: so did it have standar plugs too? [12:53] davmor2, nah, just usb, get a lenovo X220, it has like 8 hours battery life ;) [12:53] gord: yeah but the flight is like 10 [13:02] are they ever going to do a uds that's not in the states again? [13:05] gord: I'll bring tea bags pg tips ? [13:06] you off over there as well czajkowski [13:07] MooDoo: every other one is not in the states [13:07] MooDoo: aye [13:07] gord: and if you're really good I'll bring you some jammy dodgers [13:08] * MooDoo really must go to at least one UDS [13:12] davmor2: when you see czajkowski at uds, give her a *prod* for me [13:30] using libreoffice to make a pdf. So, question is indirectly related to libreoffice and even less directly ubuntu related - I hope that is forgiveable - I would like to have an interactive feature, so that three are pictures in pdf that one can click on to get 'full' or bigger view. Can someone tell me if its possible using LibreOffice and if so how, or othrewise how? [13:36] !seen Lord_Readman [13:36] I have no seen command [13:37] MooDoo: how about I make you insanely jealous by hugging czajkowski instead :P [13:37] eh [13:37] davmor2: that wouldn't make me jealous at all..... [13:37] no [13:38] davmor2: she's not that nice lol [13:38] MooDoo: better still I'll sit behind her in the keynote and tie her hair to her chair :D [13:38] davmor2: that's more like it.... [13:59] okay, I'm stuck [13:59] how do you resize windows in Unity? [14:00] grab an edge and drag [14:01] right, but if the bottom is off the screen? [14:02] so far I've managed to work around it by moving it around the workspaces, clicking the workspace selector [14:03] randomly clicking around until it eventually gets the general idea about switching workspaces, resize window, struggle with the workspace selector some more then move the resized window back into place [14:03] but that seems a bit of a faff [14:03] gordonjcp: You can move the window up by holding alt + clicking anywhere in the window and dragging it up [14:03] daubers: and alt-right-drag ought to resize it, but it pops up a context menu instead [14:03] gordonjcp: so grab the title bar and move it up and then reduce it's size, or alt+click and move the window and then alter the size, or just make it fullscreen [14:04] gordonjcp: I meant you can drag it up, and then grab the bottom [14:04] gordonjcp: not alt+right alt+leftclick [14:06] daubers: yeah, still more of a faff than it needs to be [14:13] cheers all [14:25] i see loco council nominations are coming up [14:25] indeed they are [14:26] restanding popey ? [14:26] no, i stepped down [14:26] Didn't we just have this? [14:26] that was the Community Council [14:26] (which I also stepped down from) [14:26] bigcalm: i though that, but it's different, [14:26] and the EMEA RMB [14:26] popey: had enough, or just thought time for new blood? [14:27] neither [14:27] well, kinda the latter [14:27] ah ok [14:27] i dont believe you should outstay your welcome on a board :D [14:27] I also need to focus on other things [14:27] How long have you been on it? [14:27] 2 years [14:27] Squatting [14:29] if people keep voting for you, you're obviously doing something right [14:30] no idea what mind ;) [14:35] MooDoo: He obviously pays the voters well :p [14:35] daubers: lol [14:36] daubers: no he's just the only one anyone has heard of ;) [14:36] :D [14:36] Or the majority of voters are elvis fans [14:36] davmor2: when you going for it? [14:37] shank you fery much instantrimshot.com [14:37] MooDoo: I'm too busy as it is I don't think I got time for that too :) [14:37] davmor2: aw go one, i want to make it obvious that i won't vote for you :p [14:38] how do you get the grub menu up [14:38] hold down shift? [14:38] shift [14:38] MooDoo: When you standing so I can return the favour ;) [14:38] davmor2: i'm not an ubuntu member [14:38] that doesn't seem to work [14:38] It's right shift I think [14:39] I've held down shift all throughout the boot process, still doesn't show grub [14:39] wtf [14:39] it doesnt matter which shift [14:39] grub 2 or grub legacy? [14:39] no idea [14:39] is it a standard install of ubuntu? [14:39] whatever hideous misfeature it installs by default [14:39] grub2 [14:40] nope, neither left nor right shift make a difference [14:40] davmor2: i don't think i'll ever be able to stand as i'll never be an ubuntu member [14:43] * daubers pondered becoming an ubuntu member.... but then did other things [14:43] !ping [14:43] another contentless ping... sigh... [14:43] * bigcalm kicks Spotify [14:43] MooDoo: correct! if you will never be a member, that removes you from being in certain positions [14:44] popey: yup, just can't ever see myself being in a position to get membership lol [14:45] bigcalm: DAB radio and absolute 80's ;) [14:46] davmor2: and I thought you were going to rick roll me [14:46] lubotu3`: really needs to be call Marvin [14:46] davmor2: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [14:46] bigcalm: no that's too easy muhahahahahaha [14:46] davmor2: I'm listening to 8bit dub ska [14:47] http://open.spotify.com/track/5y7sJWrVtjoJ1n2eg1JpOD [14:50] so, can't stop it blanking the screen, can't make it suspend or resume, can't edit grub [14:51] and it uses grub2 so the boot loader is effecively a "sealed unit" that can't be changed [14:51] comedy [14:55] gordonjcp: install grub1? [14:55] BigRedS: I booted back into Arch and stuck syslinux back in [14:55] I've overwritten grub '2' with 'grub-legacy' ina few places [14:55] oh, or that [14:55] :) [14:56] now I've got to the stage that nomodeset allows it to suspend, but it cannot resume [14:56] gordonjcp: try waiting for the bios screen to stop and then repeatedly press the shift button [14:56] davmor2: tried that [14:56] so [14:56] despite suspend/hibernate/resume being a solved problem on every other distro, Ubuntu still manages to make an arse of it [14:56] how is it even possible to get this wrong? [14:57] I'm sure hibernate's not a solved problem on anything [14:57] it seems to be something that exists as an unnatainable goal to keep people busy [14:58] it's fine on every other distro I've tried, on all the Intel chipset laptops and desktops I've tried [14:58] Oh. Debian on my X201 doesn't hibernate ver well [14:58] it comes out of it, but it takes about a week and a half [15:05] lol syslinux [15:07] later on i might install arch and then go troll in their irc channel [15:09] ali1234: go to it and good luck, there are plenty Ubuntu trolls already so you'll need to bring something special [15:10] ah, cool, hibernate has solved the problem [15:10] excellent [15:10] that's quite clever, by overwriting / it's kind of forced me to reinstall something else [15:15] STOP! Coffee time [15:15] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo [15:32] heya paul [15:33] hey [15:33] irc is easier then trying to read the facebook chat thing [15:34] indeed it is.. [15:34] what does fp mean ? [15:34] * Flashtek_ sighs [15:35] http://www.freewayprojects.com/ [15:38] Flashtek_, u there ? [15:40] nope [15:40] you ? [15:41] i am [15:41] ok will try and remember to mention you [15:42] u got any business cards ? [15:45] seen the USb typewriter? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu3g4ZBt3o0 [15:45] zleap, I have business cards, yes.. [15:46] can i grab some next time i see you so i can help promote fp please ? [15:46] arduino project [15:46] zleap, i will try to get some from Kevin.. [15:47] ok cool [15:47] u going to the next lug meet in November [15:47] unsure.. [15:47] i think i am gonna bedown the rugby club so i will be around in Paignton not at the meet [15:47] I will do my best to get there.. i've been damned busy recently though [15:48] ok np [15:48] well i can;t make it either i just hope people stay around [15:48] i think rob and roly went elsewhere last time then some else turned up later [15:51] that's the risk you take if you move from the agreed locations.. [15:52] we didn't [15:52] i just can't make it [15:52] they turned up and then no one else did, (till later) so they went off to build computers or something [15:52] rather than sticking around for people to turn up [15:54] anyway back later [15:55] Hello, OT question, what was the free webapp for event attendance management Ubuntu used not long ago? [15:55] eventbrite? [15:57] free for free events [15:58] Spot on, thanks Laney [15:58] & AlanBell === Girly-Girl is now known as GirlyGirl [16:37] http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b016ltm0 [16:40] \o/ [16:40] jacobw: cool, thanks. [16:41]