[05:45] Morning all! [05:45] also Ugh. [05:58] Good morning popey [07:05] Morning all [07:14] woo, old bt mouse still working [07:18] british telecom? [07:23] ali1234: no, it has blue teeth [07:57] It took me way too long to work out what you meant by that [08:02] and it's not even Friday! [08:02] morning all [08:07] it isn't? bah :( [08:08] Morning [08:08] So.. I need a new disk to store lots of big things® (>1TB, photos and music) [08:08] I'm looking at 7200 RPM SATA-600 disks.. anything I should look out for? [08:08] (as in, "Don't buy brand X" or "Brand Y disks are faster") [08:09] WD & Seagate are traditionally where to look, I think WD are more highly regarded than Seagate these days [08:09] for longevity at least. I don't do speed :) [08:10] BigRedS: I know, everything will be faster than my current "green" 5400RPM disk [08:10] but still! [08:32] MartijnVdS: where will you backup the disk to? [08:35] oimon: my 2TB NAS :) [08:35] oimon: (same as my current disk) [08:35] is the correct answer :) [08:35] and once I get fibre, that NAS is going to make backups to another NAS at my parents :) [08:36] oimon: no, 'the cloud' is the correct answer [08:36] I've used Samsung Spinpoints for years. Very pleased with them. [08:36] Although they've sold that off to seagate now iiuc [08:36] For some reason none of the stores in the area have >1TB disks in stock [08:40] I think I'll wait a few weeks/months. The current disk is fine. :) [08:41] Gooooooooooooood morning, here :) [08:41] howdy bigcalm [08:42] aloha [08:43] Hiya MartijnVdS & czajkowski :) [08:43] Is it the weekend yet? [08:43] MartijnVdS, That would be because of the Great Disk Shortage of 2011 [08:43] awilkins: Why? [08:44] awilkins: Thailand flooding? [08:44] MartijnVdS, Big flood. Destroyed Thailand [08:45] Thoroughly happy Thursday, everyone! :) [08:45] Woo autumn photos :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6282743765/in/photostream/lightbox/ [08:49] thursday you say *yawns* [08:54] mornin' [08:55] * AlanBell gives up on the Unity switcher and turns on the old compiz one [08:57] It's one of those days where I still haven't decided which IDE to load [08:58] Time for coffee I think [09:06] Hmmph. The disk crisis has pushed prices up something mental [09:06] The sweetspot for SATA drives seems to have moved up to somewhere around 2.5TB [09:06] Which cost £20 more than the 1TB ones at the moment... wonder how long that will last [09:07] There's a crisis? [09:08] China Crisis? [09:08] Time Crisis? [09:08] Time Crisis 2? [09:08] Jinx [09:08] ish [09:08] lol [09:09] Spent far too much of my time and money on that game during my college days [09:11] bigcalm, you missed the point of college. [09:11] mine was spent on beer and looking at unachievable women. [09:11] good morning everyone. [09:11] awilkins: There was a 15-20% jump on Monday [09:11] iclebyte: I also spent far too much time and money in the local pubs during my college days [09:11] (wholesale) [09:12] Hi brobostigon [09:12] hi bigcalm [09:12] daubers, More that that, I remember 1TB drives being about £64 incVAT [09:12] awilkins: Sorry, that's wholesale (what we buy them at at work) obviously retail ones will go higher still [09:12] Now they are in the £90 region [09:12] Grr. [09:13] awilkins: We spent about 50-60k on drives last week to try and weather this out :) [09:13] Just as I was thinking of building a new MythTV box ( hi there ikonia !! :) ) [09:13] so what happened then? [09:13] A flood destroyed 1/3rd of the worlds hard drive production in Thailand [09:13] i see [09:13] Flooding in thailand has destroyed western digi plants and hitachi plants [09:14] also, 75% of the motors used in HDD's were produced there [09:14] Ah [09:14] daubers: ouch [09:14] Ah, that's rather more serious then [09:14] Indeed [09:14] WD reckon they'll have their plant running at some capacity by feb/march [09:14] anyone else dicsovered big issues since upgrading thunderbird? i get 5 second lag when typing plain text email [09:15] hitachi will probably be similar [09:15] a/sb end [09:15] So drives for the immediate future are going to be expensive, and crap (non-optimized production lines making components they previously didn't) [09:15] Yup [09:15] so.. switch to Seagate? [09:15] awilkins: Moral of the story is, ssd's might suddenly become more popular [09:15] gah VLC you will be the death of me [09:15] MartijnVdS: Seagate will go up too, as they won't be able to ramp up production enough to fill the gap [09:15] keeps flipping crashing and stopping and no sound mid way [09:16] daubers, The SSD pricing is already getting to the point where I'd get one for a main system drive [09:16] I want 1TB or larger SSD [09:16] + affordable [09:16] daubers, But I still need large drives for my gaming habit [09:16] awilkins: Yeah, I almost bought one for my laptop, but bike test next month means no moneys [09:16] MartijnVdS: Would you like a pony with that? [09:16] jpds: Yes please. And the moon. On a stick. [09:16] MartijnVdS: I just had a delivery of 600GB ones, only about £700 a piece I think [09:18] daubers: getting there, but not quite :) [09:25] daubers: your UTF-8 is broken (you're sending Latin1) [09:26] Hmmm? It's whatever xchat is set to [09:26] Hybrid [09:28] It's set in the server prefs [09:28] The default for "Ubuntu Server" appears to be UTF-8 [09:29] * awilkins is surprised and also incredulous - ‽ [09:30] Mine was indeed set to Hybrid [09:30] What is Hybrid ... it's not even on my list (xchat-gnome) [09:30] popey: got a moment to look at something for me? [09:31] I really should see a doctor, but I'm lazy [09:31] * Laney wolf whistles [09:33] awilkins: it's listed as IRC (Latin/Unicode Hybrid) [09:33] YMMV in xchat-gnome [09:34] bigcalm, It doesn't seem available. Hooray for progress :) [09:34] *shrug* [09:35] bigcalm: wassup? [09:35] Aha [09:40] Join #ltsp [09:40] nubae: you need to add a / in front of that :) [09:40] yes i know :-) slip of the hand [09:41] ah, that reminds me. I'm after a windows terminal server-alike way of getting at a remote ubuntu machine [09:41] pointedly, with a desktop matching the resolution of the *client* rather than the server [09:41] and I can't seem to find one [09:42] BigRedS, ummm can u explain that a bit better, its slightly confusing [09:42] in linux we have LTSP linux terminal server [09:42] in windows, citrix, or if u want to go that way AD (LDAP) [09:43] BigRedS: i like freenx. [09:43] either way what do u want to run on the clients, linux or windows? [09:43] you can suspend sessions and use ssl certs for access..and it's SUPER fast [09:44] thats not quite the same as a terminal system [09:44] nubae: er, clients will be debian or ubuntu [09:45] then my suggestion, run ltsp, even if its off a windows virtualised partition [09:46] ltsp off windows? hm? [09:46] * BigRedS wanders off to look at ltsp [09:46] What would be better is a dedicated LTSP server of course [09:46] no it wouldn't [09:46] but i suppose u need the windows server for something [09:47] I basically want VNC but I want to view the remote desktop at the resolution of the local monitor [09:47] then oimon is right, run freenx [09:48] BigRedS: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15816/changing-the-resolution-of-a-vnc-session-in-linux [09:48] ltsp is probably too much too soon for you [09:48] or vmware or virtualbox [09:48] ltsp just looks like it's solving a different problem [09:48] virtualbox? [09:49] both do full screen [09:49] yes oracles version of vmware [09:49] opensource version [09:49] no, I know what it is [09:49] I just don't understand how it helps [09:49] btw freenx does not show the desktop like VNC, it allows multiple resumable sessions at the display res you choose [09:49] right [09:50] he doesnt want vnc i dont think [09:50] think of the latency [09:50] multiple vnc sessions at once [09:50] gah [09:50] oof [09:50] http://ubuntuone.com/4zuLKh5Zz4Et4OrRcrIl94 [09:51] allows choice of DE and screen res. [09:51] I have a PC on my desk with a biggish monitor, and another in another room with a diddy monitor on it. I'd like to connect to it with a big monitor, basically. [09:51] it's all on the same gigE net so latency's really not likely to be a problem. I'm pondering bodging a length of cat5 into a vga cable... [09:51] ummmm... [09:52] HDMI-over-Cat5e extender? :) [09:52] and what do both systems run? [09:52] windows? [09:52] no [09:52] they're both ubuntu [09:52] well, there's a debian client, too, but I don't really midn what I use [09:52] so just do a ssh -X [09:52] I imagine the client is the easy bit [09:52] yeah, that had ocurred to me, I just assumed there was some more, er, pretty way [09:53] BigRedS: check out xpra as well [09:53] whats unpretty about that? u can always write a script to make it pretty [09:53] then you can move running apps between machines [09:53] BigRedS: you mean have the monitors next to each other, or mirror the image to them both? You can send VGA over CAT5 if you really want. [09:54] Nah, I want to have almost exactly VNC, but have the remote desktop be dictated by the resolution of the client's. Or be arbitrary [09:55] and I assumed there'd be some sort of even-my-dad-could-do-it methd which I could try, and file some bugs about or something [09:55] have u looked at vinagre? [09:55] its a vnc alternative [09:55] AlanBell: Oooh, that looks like fun [09:55] it might allow for that [09:55] it's a vnc client isn't it? [09:55] is xpra like synergy? [09:56] !info xpra [09:56] xpra (source: parti-all): X Persistent Remote Applications. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.6-0ubuntu10 (natty), package size 41 kB, installed size 264 kB [09:56] it is, but its a really good one [09:56] BigRedS: you mean remote control VNC or join-together-two-machines VNC like with Synergy+? [09:56] I like the "So basically it's screen for remote X apps. " from their site [09:56] remote control [09:57] x11vnc? [09:57] if u are going vnc route choose vinagre [09:58] I use that to grab the existing display (i.e. VGA console) of my server and continue with existing apps, as opposed to starting a new X session on a virtual display number. [09:58] almost exactly the 'remote desktop connection' thing that ubuntu ships with, or tightvnc or whatever, but where I get a desktop whose resolution matches my monitor, not that of the server [09:58] trust me [09:58] vinagre++ [09:58] nubae: except it doesn't talk to realvnc servers (on windows) [09:58] I just get "Connection closed" [09:58] yreah but he wants ubuntu to ubuntu [09:58] I thought vinagre was just a vnc client? Can the client set the resolution? I assumed that was down to the server [09:59] BigRedS: the client can scale down [09:59] BigRedS: (or up) as necessary [09:59] There used to be a way to have persistent virtual VNC sessions. [10:00] I've done it on SLES before, where you can log back in to server:11 and still have your apps there [10:00] (11 being arbirtary) [10:00] (perhaps even arbitrary, too) [10:00] i even find VNC sucks a bit on the LAN too [10:00] MartijnVdS: yeah, i've got scaling, but that's just done by making the pixels bigger :) [10:01] yeah, it's not great. I used to do a boatload of support by vncing over a lan... === drew is now known as Guest22810 [10:03] yep, which is why real pros use ltsp ;-) :p [10:04] I must've completely misunderstood what ltsp is [10:05] BigRedS: you're not pro :D [10:05] popey: Good lord no! I've seen professionalism and I don't like it :) [10:06] it'll take while to sink in... but its a terminal server [10:06] "Not for me!" [10:06] ie clients are just dummy clients [10:06] nubae: yeah, it's basically citrix for linux isn't it? I don't get how that helps with VNCing to workstations [10:06] Sounds like my work [10:07] but that's mostly besides the point. I don't deal with things that have mice any more generally :) [10:07] u wouldnt need to [10:07] u install ltsp on the computer with small monitor [10:08] then u do a session from big monitor one [10:09] and I can still log in locally to the diddy one? [10:09] I suppose at worst I'd just need to initate a session to localhost presumably [10:09] getting everythin running smooth as hell from ltsp session [10:10] sure u ¡can set up fat clients in ltsp [10:10] and anywya it goes by accounts [10:10] ie... ever user has their own account so u set one up for diddy [10:11] and one for biggy [10:11] but I want the same desktop on both [10:11] even easier [10:11] login with diddy on both [10:12] whatever what u hack it there's a solution [10:12] go read up on ltsp first [10:12] haha, yeah. I was just hoping for a more, er, simple one :) [10:12] think there is a primer somewhere [10:12] well ull learn a hell of a lot [10:13] and its stuff worth learning [10:13] u might finally understand how linux really works ;-) [10:13] Nah, I get enough of that in the day really [10:14] I'm trying quite hard to be a normal user when I get home :) [10:14] either way setting it up is a 3 step process [10:14] its easy [10:14] cool. I'll have a faff next time I manage to get annoyed at screen resolutions :) ta [10:14] its just the internals which are fascinating and cool [10:15] can the internals be easily avoided? [10:16] internals of what? [10:16] ltsp [10:17] I just want to press 'go' and have the thing work [10:17] oh, that stuff [10:17] it does graphics, graphics scare me [10:17] isn't it just vnc with some extra bumf stuck on? [10:17] probably. All I want is VNC where the resolution is dictated by that of the client rather than the server [10:17] I think I might just accept the scaling and be done with it [10:17] I don't ge tthe point of that [10:17] depends how bored/annoyed I get [10:17] surely that's what X is for? [10:18] yeah, that was my first thought. Here's a chance to learn X, run an X client on one machine and an X server on the other [10:18] and then I remembered about X and thought that that's just a way to get really irritated [10:18] why don';t you just use X? [10:18] it's much easier to use than VNC [10:19] well yeah, but if you're using X to begin with you may as well just tunnel it over ssh and save yourself the bother [10:19] VNC never works right [10:19] ssh -X [10:19] never fails [10:20] i have never seen it fail [10:20] thast by fair the easiest solution [10:20] even when the local X server is completely messed up, ssh -X localhost always seems to work [10:20] xpra++ [10:20] Much better than ssh -X [10:20] it was more that I was expecting the built in clicky way of doing it to work and when it didn't I wondered if there was some other method I could use that would also be appropriate for pointing other people at [10:20] it's also very handy for when you added yourself to a group and don't want to logout [10:21] !info openerp-client [10:21] openerp-client (source: openerp-client): Enterprise Resource Management (client). In component universe, is optional. Version 5.0.14-1 (natty), package size 529 kB, installed size 2896 kB [10:21] yay, nobody got round to updating it :) [10:21] xpra has all the same flaws that VNC has [10:22] ali1234: Such as? [10:23] such as it reduces everything to bitmaps [10:23] and presumably has no encryption [10:23] ali1234: xpra can use SSH. [10:23] xpra attach ssh:IP.address:1 [10:24] yeah, well, you can tunnel vnc through ssh as well, if you screw around with it long enough [10:26] But, yeah; in my experience xpra isn't anywhere near as latent as ssh -X. [10:28] is it weird that the postoffice owners were burning joss sticks in the shop today? it was a bit overpowering and nauseating [10:29] Maybe they have egg sandwiches for lunch [10:32] bigcalm: Now I'm even hungrier [10:32] it was 9am, just opened [10:32] massive queue of OAPs at 9.01 [10:33] "When I was a lad this was all post offices as far as the eye can see"? [10:33] oimon: Were the the post office owners Hindu by any chance, I think today it a major celebration (Dewali) for them [10:33] ah, possibly [10:33] lots of fireworks last night [10:37] Whoever was talking about the HDD prices & flooding destroying/damaging factories cause shortages http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/10/27/wd_lake_3.jpg [10:37] reading RMS "rider" of requirements confirm my suspicions that he is an aspie https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html [10:38] s/aspie/arsehat/ [10:38] ftfy [10:38] where's the list part? [10:38] well, it explains why he acts like he does, and can't help it [10:39] "I do not eat breakfast. Please do not ask me any questions about what I will do breakfast. Please just do not bring it up." [10:39] lol [10:39] oimon: because he's a total dick? [10:40] gordonjcp: no. he might act like one, but if he has aspergers it explains his behaviour [10:40] with the social skills of a telephone pole? [10:40] pff [10:40] I'm inclined to disagree [10:40] there are plenty of people with Aspergers who are not self-important pricks [10:40] people with aspie syndrome generally don't get made spokesman for a company [10:41] for good reason [10:41] here's the thing [10:41] he is delivering the conditions for relating to him and accomodating him [10:41] he needs a PR person for his outbursts [10:42] he needs to step down [10:42] he needs to shut the hell up [10:42] all you people need to stop complaining about RMS and take a look at yourselves [10:42] and stop making ridiculous demands in his rider [10:42] i don't see him making any ridiculous demands [10:42] i see *you* making ridiculous demands about what he must do [10:42] ffs, notable dickheads Oasis don't have as much arseholery in their rider [10:43] really? they walk off stage rather easily. that is due to ego though [10:43] if you don't like it you are free to not ask him to come and talk at your event [10:43] gordonjcp:Watch your language please. [10:43] oimon: right, but their rider is rather less rectocranially-orientated [10:44] oimon: if rms walked off stage mid-blether it could only be an improvement [10:44] "A microphone is desirable if the room is large. No other facilities are needed." [10:44] at least you might miss him singing [10:44] so unreasonable [10:44] how could we ever accomodate such incredible requests such as the availability of a microphone at a lecture? [10:44] it's simply impossible i tell you [10:45] ali1234: look at his demands for internet connectivity, then [10:45] it doesnt strike me as unreasonable [10:45] none of it is unreasonable. it's quirky [10:45] none of it is unreasonable, and most of it probably exists because at some time in the past, someone asked him [10:45] and so it got added to the list [10:45] popey: his big long list of stuff he won't eat is fairly unreasonable [10:45] that's where riders come from, all of them [10:46] do you agree that he is probably aspie though? [10:46] he did that when he came to glasgow, demanded fed and then refused to eat anywhere we suggested [10:46] oimon: no [10:46] ali? [10:46] i dunno [10:46] i don't think you can make a medical diagnosis based on such little evidence [10:47] i am usually right in my diagnoses [10:47] i know quite a few [10:48] so do I, so do most of us [10:48] in my limited experience of clinical psychology I'd guess he probably is a *little* to the aspie end of the spectrum but that is mostly overridden by his vastly overinflated pompous ego [10:50] from my experience I find that people with aspergers tend to have rather better manners than rms exhibits [10:50] nobody can claim they weren't told of his requirements :) [10:50] even if they are a bit odd in their social contact [10:54] oimon: i would be surprised if he wasn't aspie [10:54] maybe they could fork the FSF [10:54] so his entirely unreasonable demands relating to internet connection consists of: a secure internet connection where ssh works [10:55] and a bit more [10:56] "Meetina a sad parrot is not an agreeable surprise" [10:56] I don't think that's unreasonable, even it's a bit odd to state it up dront [10:56] nothing to ID him, no proxy, hotel doesn't ask for passport, nothing wireless,.. [10:56] And my typing is very off today [10:56] the only possible reason that entire paragraph could be in there is because one time someone did exactly that [10:57] Quite possibly [10:57] indeed, the whole document smacks of lots of notes made after individual failures [10:57] he feels compelled to validate everything (except breakfast) [10:57] popey: exactly my reading of it [10:57] like i said, that's where *all* those crazy rock'n'roll riders come from [10:58] he could just say, don't buy me a parrot...or not mention the parrot thing at all [10:58] i think you're overanalysing it :D [10:59] this document explains him more than any interview [10:59] it doesn't say "don't buy me a parrot" [10:59] it says "don't buy a parrot (for yourself) to try to impress me" [11:00] oh yeah [11:00] yeah, I mean he wants to stay in a hotel that won't ask for a credit card or any form of ID [11:00] good luck with that [11:00] He prefers to stay with private individuals [11:01] One of my colleagues saw him leaving Leeds train station when he came to give a talk here. [11:01] i've never needed anything other than the WPA key in any hotel i've ever been in [11:01] and the key is usually the name of the hotel or something silly like that [11:02] * Laney is enjoying the quiz [11:02] of course it usually doesn't work properly, because wireless is a bit rubbish like that [11:02] :D [11:02] on the continent , ID cards are typical so they would expect a passport to be shown to stay at a hotel. i had trouble visiting a client at a bank because they wanted my passport, and i'd left it at the hotel [11:02] i think i know what is officially supported [11:02] yeah, I thought I did too! :D [11:02] don't want to say [11:02] I'm recognizing lots of my own traits in here, to be honest [11:03] So pretty aspie [11:03] everyone has particular likes and dislikes. and i assume he is single, so used to getting his own way. however he is quite extreme on the spectrum [11:03] Although I'm more socially adjusted than this... but I haven't lived at MIT for most of my life [11:03] and you don't eat your feet in front of an audience [11:04] i hope [11:04] yay, i was right [11:04] Nope [11:04] "what is on ports.ubuntu.com" was my guide [11:04] * oimon remembered every dr who except for the current one :-\ [11:05] oimon: why not the current one? [11:05] couldn't remember his surname [11:06] "Smith" [11:06] AKA chinhead [11:06] lol [11:06] mike smith right? [11:06] Matt Smith [11:06] * oimon wonders who matt baker is [11:07] who am i thinking of? [11:07] oimon: the one show [11:07] LOL..probably influenced by 2 other dr's [11:07] oimon: he's also on country file [11:07] PSA: Adobe has -50% off from Lightroom today if you get it from their site. Not strictly Ubuntu news, but thought someone might be interested [11:07] what's lightroom? [11:07] Myrtti: already have it :D [11:07] ali1234: windows version of darktables [11:08] is it photoshop? [11:08] MooDoo: or mac [11:08] photography work flow solution [11:08] ali1234: no [11:08] why would i want it then? [11:08] ali1234: no editing, but you can do a hell of a lot with it [11:08] More for pro photographers, isn't it [11:08] awilkins: nope not really, anyone can use it : [11:09] brilliant for catalogin [11:09] I go for the "big folder" method [11:09] ie everyting in one folder? [11:10] well i think it's interesting Myrtti thanks, although i already am a user :) [11:12] £1,509 for CS production :( [11:12] worth it though if you're into all that :) [11:12] no it isn't [11:13] why not? [11:15] I seem to be channeling Stallman now in my latest email to boss about why phone conferences are not useful to me for discussing technical issues [11:16] Always a risk when I read an extended section of prose ... absorb it's personality [11:17] wow, if you buy photoshop, after effect, and illustrator separately it costs £2000 [11:18] awilkins: i started doing it too! [11:18] i wrote about what happened when a user demanded admin rights on a pc [11:18] ali1234: that's why it's better to buy production [11:18] they are basically paying you £500 to take a free copy of flash :) [11:18] went on a rant, and had to delete it as a tangent [11:19] hey, if you go through the business site, it;s £100 less [11:20] and the edu site..even better [11:29] Afternoon [11:31] afternoon [11:34] oooo better sandy bridge support in linux 3.1 [11:34] wonder if that means minecraft will work properly on my i7 now [11:34] * popey pokes gord and ali1234 who know about these things [11:34] popey, Isn't Minecraft support more to do with OpenGL drivers? [11:34] i don't know anything about it [11:35] I bet there were at least two people pretty much as influential in Free software as rms at Oggcamp [11:35] imagine if we all presented riders like that [11:35] yeah right [11:35] who? [11:35] I don't know [11:35] i mean, if you include people who are a bad influence, and just want to compromise the ideals to get short term success, then maybe [11:35] lol [11:35] heh [11:36] ali1234: back under your bridge, you ;-) [11:36] * gordonjcp -> food [11:36] hah! [11:38] minecraft doesn't work on your i7? [11:39] What's better, BTW, i5 or i7? [11:39] I hate this modern trend for model numbers not meaning ANYTHING [11:40] I get why they do it instead of model names ; you think "Celeron - inferior" [11:40] But I just think i3 ? i5 ? i7 ? My brain hurts [11:41] ha, "celeron.. inferior" is my thought process exactly. [11:41] it is what you think it is [11:41] jacobw2: it works but the graphics corrupt [11:42] * awilkins just thinks the processor with the most L2 cache is the best these days [11:43] * GirlyGirl wonders what's up with the linux folk and minecraft [11:44] minecrack [11:44] hmm? [11:44] GirlyGirl: ti's a good program :D [11:44] It's one of the games that ought to run as well on Linux as Windows.... and it also appeals to the mindset that Linux appeals to as well [11:44] You can make of the game what you want of it, as long as you have the skill [11:45] i've still not tried it [11:45] Afternoon All [11:46] HOw can I get apt to use a proxy which requires domain level authentication? [11:46] I have tried export http_proxy=http://domain\user:pass@proxy:port/ [11:46] * awilkins has not reached the Minecraft Event Horizon where you get good enough to be really drawn into it [11:46] but that doesn;t seem to work [11:46] RhysMorgan, ISA server? NTLM auth? [11:46] awilkins, [11:46] awilkins, yes [11:46] RhysMorgan, One of the more successful approaches I've tried is ntlmaps [11:47] +1 [11:47] i use that too [11:47] works _brilliantly_ [11:47] It's a python proxy server that does the auth for you [11:47] And you connect programs to that [11:47] Will take a look thankyou [11:47] i have to use it at work to get a stupid java download tool working through the stupid proxy [11:47] The more secure NTLM config that's becoming more prevalent needs you to tweak the default config from just LM to LM & NT though [11:48] It locked me out of the domain yesterday because I hadn't done that [11:48] It was the first time I had used it in a while [11:49] The other thing I do for the office proxy is open an SSH tunnel to my router at home and put everything over SOCKS [11:50] yeah, i do that too [11:50] It would be nice if Ubuntu had an OS level way of setting the proxy like on mac [11:50] I hate bloody ISA server configured to do NTLM [11:50] it does [11:50] RhysMorgan, It does, but alas, it's not the best design I can think of [11:50] some apps dont respect it [11:50] * popey coughs Ubuntu One [11:50] Heh, yes [11:50] although thats on the plan for this cycle [11:50] lol, oversight? [11:51] And if you use a PAC script, it just passes the URL to the application [11:51] its because the vast majority of free software developers dont sit behind a proxy [11:51] I think that's mental [11:51] and apt doesn;t respect that? [11:51] if they did they'd realise what a massive pain in the arse it is [11:51] it does [11:51] RhysMorgan: its be good if it was possible to have them ignore it, too :) [11:51] Does apt understand PAC scripts? [11:51] no [11:52] I use a PAC script, my browsers understand it, but apt / update-manager don't [11:52] misunderstood [11:52] Thinking about it, it would be better if the OS just provided a local proxy if you used a PAC script [11:52] Even better for the apps that can't use a SOCKS proxy [11:53] Previously I thought it would just be great if the OS supplied libproxy support [11:54] So if you have a PAC script rather than passing the script URI to applications asking for proxy, it just starts a proxy server and passes it's local URI [11:54] Sounds like an RFE in the making :P [11:54] i never use pac scripts I just look for the proxy server address and use that [11:55] pac scripts are for windows users, not me [11:55] popey, I use PAC scripts because I move the machine between networks [11:55] You should see the size of the pac script used where I am working at the moment [11:55] so do i [11:55] popey, I guess we just have different tolerances for reconfiguring things [11:56] I use the PAC script for browsing, and tsocks for other things [11:56] heh [11:56] yeah [11:56] I don't even think Empathy does PAC scripts [11:56] Probably not Gwibber either [11:57] My window title bars have all just disappeared :O [11:57] if its useful, Empathy won't do it [11:57] I install Pidgin for this purpose because it's awkward to start Empathy with tsocks [11:58] But this kind of thing is why GNU/Linux distributions are perceived as not ready for Enterprise (tm) [11:58] Really, all the default apps should support the full gamut of proxy features [11:58] has anyone successfully stripped DRM from a kindle file? some of my books are >50 years old, i would want my ebooks to last that long. and the only way i can assure that is by ensuring they will work in future ebook readers before investing in them [11:58] awilkins: it's the rules: wait until it's nearly ready, then start working on a replacement [11:59] oimon: I haven't, but I know several people who have [12:00] BigRedS: good answer :) it's prob legal for books we own [12:01] I doubt it :( [12:01] but yeah, not me guv. honest! [12:02] i have stripped drm from an ebook that was compatible with the kindle, but it wasn't in kindle format [12:02] i can't remember what format it was in [12:02] i just discovered that there are ebook lending libraries [12:03] however they have limited copies of books [12:03] and it's mainly Z-list biogs [12:04] Yeah, they are allowed to lend each eBook about 20 times because that's how long it takes to wear out a paper one [12:04] i was looking in the kindle "blogs" section [12:04] it's like 75% erotic fiction [12:04] i was shocked [12:04] i did not expect this [12:04] Which is nuts - hey, let's take one of the major selling points of electronic media, and make sure we completely negate it! [12:05] http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries#London [12:05] I'm also shocked by the stats on how long it takes to wear out paper books [12:05] Are people really that careless? [12:05] does kindle support epub? [12:05] * oimon used to work in a library [12:05] if it does, that's probably what format it was [12:05] ali1234: no. despite epub being the digital book standard [12:05] oimon, Do they use kippers for bookmarks, or something? [12:06] oh it was a .mobi format [12:06] kindle supports that [12:06] yeah [12:07] i hated getting the returned books with sticky covers [12:08] now i have a kid, i love the ability to get childrens books from teh library. [12:08] I have very fond memories of my weekly trip to the library with mother [12:08] as an adult i'd only use it othrewise if ebook lending was widespread [12:09] They are closing our local library. Which was a pale shadow of the library back home anyway. [12:10] I'd suggest making it into an ebook library with a cafe, but that would be scuppered by the need for a reader. [12:10] And the publishers, who don't actually want you to have ebooks [12:10] oimon: I worked/volunteered in a library as well, didn't get paid, just did it because I loved reading & it got me all the latestest books before they went on the shelves [12:11] my sister used to work for a publisher. a huge cost goes into the cover design and printing and binding. they are ripping off consumers of ebooks [12:12] "Kindle Format 8 will replace the existing Mobi format Amazon used previously" wonder if that means what i think it means [12:13] i hate being tied into kindle [12:14] but wifey has one [12:14] I refuse to buy a kindle, although I think they have come up with a great concept, as always it's marred by vendor lock-ins [12:16] if only epub worked on it [12:16] I'm still searching for a decent solution for the iPad that I can use in conjunction with dropbox [12:18] I'm using a kindle without any vendor lockin [12:18] I've not bought anything from amazon [12:18] I just feed it free (and, er, 'freed') ebooks [12:18] which format do you use? or convert with calibre? [12:18] But doesn't that negate the "think of it and start reading in 30 seconds" concept? [12:18] yeah [12:18] oimon: I have, er, friends that send stuff to me [12:18] I've ignored most of the details [12:19] mobis I think [12:19] It would be cool if like the cydia idea you could direct a kindle at a secondary repository [12:19] i understand kindle allows 14 day lending - anyone tried it? [12:19] my mum has loads of books on her kindle and i want to read some [12:19] without changing accounts et [12:21] I still use a sony e-reader [12:21] I hate DRM [12:22] Has anyone got an ipad and found a decent solution? [12:22] I tend to use my advent vega and use aldiko when I want to read [12:24] !info calibre [12:24] calibre (source: calibre): e-book converter and library management. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.7.44+dfsg-1build1 (natty), package size 9311 kB, installed size 34012 kB [12:25] The latest release of calibre is 0.8.23..looks for ppa [12:26] lbotu is looking at natty [12:27] jacobw arrgh i thought they fixed that [12:27] newer calibre on lucid is a dependency beast [12:28] due to python2.7.1 and qt reqs [12:38] 3 [12:38] 3 ` [12:38] oops, sorry about those [12:38] 3? [12:38] I thought it was 42? [12:38] laptop came back from suspend with half-open connections :) [12:39] 3 + 3 = 4 + 2 [12:39] total used free shared buffers cached / Mem: 1016384 963328 53056 0 5260 848048 /Swap: 1036284 1036284 0 [12:39] think i need to change my swappiness? [12:40] 850MB in RAM cache but 1GB swap used. [12:42] xorg seems to be very leaky in xfce [12:42] oimon: depends on how often you used the in-swap data [12:43] let's say the machine wasn't very responsive :) [12:43] Why is it after an apt-get upgrade my grub screen now says Debian? [12:43] i wonder what PPAs you have on your machine RhysMorgan [12:44] all ubuntu natty [12:45] += jdownloader && natty [13:02] rms sure is an odd ball https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html [13:03] heyla. I had to install a fresh 11.10 system recently after I fried my existing system... I'm having trouble getting DVDs to play. I followed all the instructions/links I got fed by Totem and by Google and installed various 'bad/ugly/etc' packages, and ran the decss.sh or whatever it's called, but still no go. Interestingly, VLC does play them (but the audio sync is out). Any thoughts? [13:04] gord: scrollback to discussion at 11.37 this morning :P [13:05] AlanBell: Is this anything you need to be concerned about http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2011/10/introduction-of-usage-limits-to-maps.html IFrom memory, doesn't the ubuntu-uk map use the google api [13:06] It was linked from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/27/google_maps_api_no_longer_free/ [13:07] DJones: isn't that old news? [13:08] AlanBell: I don't know, I only just saw it on the register front page, it could well be old new thats coming into effect [13:09] ok, it is a new change, but we won't be getting anything like 25,000 hits per day [13:10] i thought the gmap died? [13:10] why is it even using google instead of OSM? [13:15] show me how to do that with OSM and I totally will do it [13:15] what does it do? just draw pins on a map of the UK? [13:15] the map on Launchpad died because if you want to use https (which launchpad does) then you can't embed a map without paying lots [13:16] ali1234: and allows people to place their own pin [13:16] without knowing their latitude and longitude [13:16] is there a kml file somewhere then? [13:20] gord: wow [13:27] ali1234: http://ubuntu-uk.org/?ajax_map&action=132 [13:47] pfft, paranoid Ubuntu battery monitor [13:47] "Low" isn't 20 minutes left, low is 20 seconds left [13:48] i have seen on the web at some point you can use apt-get to output a list of apps installed and then run apt-get on another server and its all installed. anyone have an idea? [13:50] dogmatic69: it was mentioned on UUPC not so long ago [13:52] dpkg --get-selections | grep '[[:space:]]install$'| awk '{print $1}' > installedpackages [13:52] AlanBell: there's a better one [13:52] you can do something with dpkg --set-selections [13:53] well, you feed set-selections the output of --get-selections [13:53] i think it was popey who explained why there was a better alternative [13:53] something to do with dependencies [13:53] dpkg --get-selections >packages.txt [13:53] dpkg --set-selections but you lose the manual/automatic flags on the packages and I can't remember how you're now supposed to do it [13:53] yeah that was it [13:54] then sudo apt-get dselect-upgrade [14:02] AlanBell: so just those 3? 1) on first server 2) and 3) on new server? [14:02] yeah, I think so [14:05] dogmatic69: yeah [14:05] cool, thanks [14:05] will try it now [14:08] Ooooooh coffee time [14:19] what is hadoop for? [14:21] AlanBell: distributed computing? [14:21] that's about the limit of my depth of understanding of it, though [14:21] yeah, I get that bit, and I know what map-reduce is, just have no idea who would want to use it [14:21] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Hadoop [14:23] Hadoop = amazing [14:24] MartijnVdS: that's a bit of a vague description :) [14:24] AlanBell: it's a framework for applying map/reduce on massive datasets (distributed across lots of machines) [14:25] yeah, why would I want to do that? [14:25] AlanBell: Say you have several million phone call records, and you want to generate a bill, one for each calling number [14:25] AlanBell: you could just loop over the millions of records, and wait a long time [14:26] but using map/reduce, you chop up the data across multiple machines, create a mapping (number, price) for each record [14:26] then reduce -> sum everything with the same number up [14:26] so you end up with lots of number -> total_price [14:27] and it scales up with more hardware, instead of "heavier" hardware (faster CPU etc.) [14:27] AlanBell: or, say, indexing the web [14:27] AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MapReduce [14:27] ok [14:31] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sk7cOqB9Dk [14:32] ^ on-line checkout IRL :) [14:44] am i just unlucky or does everyone have to do the u1sdtool -d /-c /-s dance to actually get/send files via ubuntu one? [15:05] hi guys. i was trying to run a little virtual machine setup, using cloudmin on ubuntu, and to run a setup from an ubuntu 11.10 iso unattended? [15:06] is it possible? [15:06] I probably wont know the answer, but I can't find the question in that. [15:06] ah! Well, preseeding's been around for ever. which is possible but fiddly [15:06] well, it won't install from the default ubuntu 11.10 amd64 server edition iso [15:07] so , yeh, how can i get the install to run unatended [15:07] here end my knowledge, though. there's probably a more cloudy way of doing it [15:08] possibly [15:08] NET||abuse: there's this in the documentation on preseeding: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/appendix-preseed.html [15:08] Dunno if that helps or not [15:09] actually, there's that virt- that builds images for you [15:09] that's what yout want [15:09] but I can't remember its name [15:10] ooh, sounds good [15:45] NET||abuse: I think this is what I was thinking about: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/ubuntu-vm-builder.html [15:49] hello hello [15:50] in the venerable UUPC podcasty thing popey mentioned a commandline util to enable wake on lan [15:50] anyone remember it? [15:51] danfish: [15:51] powerwake - remotely wake a napping system [15:51] wakeonlan - Sends 'magic packets' to wake-on-LAN enabled ethernet adapters [15:51] etherwake [15:51] one of those? [15:53] tx - but I think it was a command to enable the wake on lan on the remote system - or is that a bios only thing? [15:53] danfish: it's a bios thing [15:53] danfish: Sometimes you can do it using ethtool [15:53] As you might need to enable it on the card (As well as the bios) [15:54] ethtool -s eth0 wol g [15:54] ^ wakes up on "magic packet" [15:54] ethtool -s eth0 wol s [15:54] ^ wakes up on "magic packet" with password (might not be supported) [15:54] ethtool -s eth0 sopass foo [15:54] ^ serts password [15:55] thanks all - spot on as usual :) [15:55] danfish: Look for the "Supports Wake-on" and "Wake-on" lines in "ethtool" output [15:56] ok [15:56] Supports Wake-on: pumbg [15:56] Wake-on: g [15:56] says mine [15:56] * daubers might finally be coming out of caffeine withdrawal \o/ [15:57] Only a gentle headache this morning [15:57] daubers: on which end? :) [15:57] ah - remote machine (revo) seems to have had indigestion with the oneiric update ;) [15:57] will try later [15:57] They do that [15:57] daubers: (I mean.. by ingesting more caffeine, or by pulling through a caffeine-free phase) [15:57] daubers: how may a day were you? [15:57] s/may/many [15:58] MartijnVdS: By dropping from ~8-9 cups of coffee a day to 2, one in the morning, one at 3 [15:59] daubers: I was going to say that's a lot, but I can get through 6 cans of diet coke in a day [15:59] Also, I think the exercise thing is slowly starting to pay off, as I generally seem to have more energy over the past week or so [16:00] danfish: Diet coke is icky. I'm allowed one tin of coke a day if I've been exceptionally productive [16:01] (makes it about a tin a week at the moment) [16:01] daubers: heh - good re the exercise - what are you doing? [16:01] * danfish needs to start exercising again [16:01] danfish: Squash \o/ Once a week, as I gave up running as I got bored of it. Doing squash with some mates is a bit more social [16:01] Even if I'm rubbish at it :) [16:02] ooh [16:02] ethtool can set network offloading flags [16:02] ooh - I used to play squash and there's a club nearby \o/ [16:02] Heh :) [16:03] There's a fair few squash courts in reading, and at ~£6 a session it's not too pocket horrific [16:07] on a week of holiday - chores done 0, exercise done 0, sofa time lots, slob rating 100% [16:11] i've got two speeds, slow and stop :D [16:11] heh :) [16:30] danfish: sounds like my holidays [16:30] always have a huge list of things to do [16:30] end up getting nothing done :( [16:54] mattt: I've decided not to beat myself up about it. So long as doing nothing doesn't become a habit ;) [17:15] Sounds like most of my weekends. [17:46] FINALLY [17:46] http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/answer.py?answer=1631744 [17:46] Google Plus for Apps accounts [17:46] ooo [17:48] :| [17:48] http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2011/10/google-is-now-available-with-google.html for the blog post [17:50] we heard you like google, so we put a google in google so you can google while you google [17:50] :D [17:51] Not gone to the URL, but I assume the + has been dropped from part of the title to make the slug [17:51] yes [17:51] but i had to click on it before i figured it out [17:51] Ah, not a web dev? [17:51] yes actually [17:51] Oh :S [17:52] stuff like that always confuses me though [17:53] that, and the headlines on the BBC news RSS [17:53] smetimes i have to read them 3 or 4 times before i understand when they mean [17:53] Heh [17:54] * MartijnVdS adds a few people to Plus [17:54] Their command of grammar isn't always understandable with one reading [18:15] popey: does trublr contain any of my code? or did you end up starting over? [18:17] nope, all from scratch [18:17] does it handle X server restarts gracefully [18:17] ? [18:19] no [18:19] but it could do [18:22] looks good anyway [18:23] thanks [18:24] needs some work [18:24] be nice if it could be financed by donations or something [18:24] I really haven't tested how many concurrent connections the server will support [18:24] or how much bandwidth it will need per person [18:26] it's centralized? [18:27] btw, this is exactly the kind of initiative i wanted to see the other day :) [18:27] it routes traffic through a central box, yeah [18:28] the client sets up an ssh tunnel to the central box port forwarding from helper to helpee [18:30] ooo [18:30] firefox says: "The operation can not be completed because of an internal failure. A secure network communication has not been cleaned up correctly." [18:30] nice [19:38] How come people think I am less technical if I use Xchat on windows? [19:38] There's no other good IRC clients on Windows :/ [19:38] i use pidgin [19:39] anyone who judges technical ability based on what irc client you use is a noob [19:40] same goes for any software [19:40] it's what you do with it [19:40] ah, the penis size argument ;) [19:43] Monsterwizard: putty, to ssh to the server where you run irssi in screen [19:43] it's not the size of the worm it's how you wiggly it? [19:44] Well I'm gonnna run irc in emacs [19:44] lol [19:44] why? oh just to over complicate things for other people when they use the computer [19:45] Evening [19:50] Monsterwizard: that's as good a reason as any [19:50] Heh, the Japanese have made a Terrahawk :) http://laughingsquid.com/spherical-flying-drone-hovers-like-a-helicopter-flies-at-40-mph/ [19:54] DJones: Terrahawks! [19:54] :D [19:55] Gerry Anderson tv series from a few decades ago :) [19:56] Oh, we know :) [20:10] hello, I have my inlaws netbook seems to only boot into busybox. [20:11] says mounting/dev on /root/dev failed: no such file or directory [20:12] would installing a new version of ubuntu on it work? [20:14] probably [20:14] you should boot a live image and examine the partitions for errors [20:17] thanks will do that! [20:19] not even exit on busy shell works.. kernel panic-not syncing: attempted to kill init! [20:20] well yeah that will happen if there is no root filesystem [20:21] what tool checks partition errors? [20:21] fdisk and fsck [20:24] failed to mount /dev/sda1 [20:27] ran $dmseg | tail [20:27] ext4-fs (sda1): error loadin journal [20:29] will this mean something is physically broken? [20:29] maybe [20:31] gparted seems to see the drives. [20:35] if i cant mount it, i cannot do fdisk right? [20:41] ok, answering myself here: sudo fsck /dev/sda1 [20:42] ignored some sort of error said yes twice... [20:43] claering orfans... [20:43] inodes... [20:47] ali1234 fdisk lets it mount! great i'll try to mount [21:14] hahaha butthurt perl programmers [21:26] ali1234 you are my sister-in-law unsung hero. of course i took all the credit of fixing her netbook. === Chaser_ is now known as Chaser [22:06] when I press shut down my pc only logs off [22:08] you could try the command: sudo shutdown -h 0 [22:08] as a temp fix, till you properly sort it [22:08] thanx hamitron [23:38] does anyone fancy having a go at this shredder challenge? [23:41] shredder challenge? [23:41] http://www.shredderchallenge.com [23:42] way too advanced for me :P [23:42] not really [23:42] it's just a jigsaw puzzle [23:43] as a human sure, I dunno I guess you could look for color gradients as they continued and make a best effort guess [23:44] ali1234: do you know how the shredded documents are being sent to us? [23:44] individual scans of every single strip? lol [23:44] yeah basically [23:45] so you've got strips from multiple documents all bundled together, that makes it a little more difficult [23:45] the first puzzle is only one page [23:46] I dunno I guess I can take a look at it, I have done some PIL stuff in python before [23:46] although this seems more advanced mathematics than programming, which I'm not amazingly brilliant at xD [23:48] i feel like the best thing to do would be make a program that cuts out all the individual pieces and then displays them side by side and you click yes/no depending on if they look like they match [23:49] that'd be pretty easy [23:49] but yea, brb I got food cooking [23:49] aw, no fun, must be either US citizen or permanent resident [23:50] i'm sure we can find someone [23:50] "Entries ... must be a permanent resident or citizen of the United States" - way to limit the solution pool [23:50] or not, gg [23:50] or we could just troll the competition by releasing the answers publicly :) [23:54] or work with someone from the US?