[05:45] <popey> Morning all!
[05:45] <popey> also Ugh.
[05:58] <MartijnVdS> Good morning popey
[07:05] <DJones> Morning all
[07:14] <MartijnVdS> woo, old bt mouse still working
[07:18] <ali1234> british telecom?
[07:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: no, it has blue teeth
[07:57] <BigRedS> It took me way too long to work out what you meant by that
[08:02] <MartijnVdS> and it's not even Friday!
[08:02] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:07] <BigRedS> it isn't? bah :(
[08:08] <daubers> Morning
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> So.. I need a new disk to store lots of big things® (>1TB, photos and music)
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> I'm looking at 7200 RPM SATA-600 disks.. anything I should look out for?
[08:08] <MartijnVdS> (as in, "Don't buy brand X" or "Brand Y disks are faster")
[08:09] <BigRedS> WD & Seagate are traditionally where to look, I think WD are more highly regarded than Seagate these days
[08:09] <BigRedS> for longevity at least. I don't do speed :)
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I know, everything will be faster than my current "green" 5400RPM disk
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> but still!
[08:32] <oimon> MartijnVdS: where will you backup the disk to?
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> oimon: my 2TB NAS :)
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> oimon: (same as my current disk)
[08:35] <oimon> is the correct answer :)
[08:35] <MartijnVdS> and once I get fibre, that NAS is going to make backups to another NAS at my parents :)
[08:36] <BigRedS> oimon: no, 'the cloud' is the correct answer
[08:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've used Samsung Spinpoints for years. Very pleased with them.
[08:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Although they've sold that off to seagate now iiuc
[08:36] <MartijnVdS> For some reason none of the stores in the area have >1TB disks in stock
[08:40] <MartijnVdS> I think I'll wait a few weeks/months. The current disk is fine. :)
[08:41] <bigcalm> Gooooooooooooood morning, here :)
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> howdy bigcalm
[08:42] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:43] <bigcalm> Hiya MartijnVdS & czajkowski :)
[08:43] <bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet?
[08:43] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, That would be because of the Great Disk Shortage of 2011
[08:43] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: Why?
[08:44] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: Thailand flooding?
[08:44] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Big flood. Destroyed  Thailand
[08:45] <JamesTait> Thoroughly happy Thursday, everyone! :)
[08:45] <MartijnVdS> Woo autumn photos :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6282743765/in/photostream/lightbox/
[08:49] <czajkowski> thursday you say *yawns*
[08:54] <iclebyte> mornin'
[08:55]  * AlanBell gives up on the Unity switcher and turns on the old compiz one
[08:57] <bigcalm> It's one of those days where I still haven't decided which IDE to load
[08:58] <bigcalm> Time for coffee I think
[09:06] <awilkins> Hmmph. The disk crisis has pushed prices up something mental
[09:06] <awilkins> The sweetspot for SATA drives seems to have moved up to somewhere around 2.5TB
[09:06] <awilkins> Which cost £20 more than the 1TB ones at the moment... wonder how long that will last
[09:07] <bigcalm> There's a crisis?
[09:08] <DJones> China Crisis?
[09:08] <MooDoo> Time Crisis?
[09:08] <bigcalm> Time Crisis 2?
[09:08] <bigcalm> Jinx
[09:08] <bigcalm> ish
[09:08] <MooDoo> lol
[09:09] <bigcalm> Spent far too much of my time and money on that game during my college days
[09:11] <iclebyte> bigcalm, you missed the point of college.
[09:11] <iclebyte> mine was spent on beer and looking at unachievable women.
[09:11] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:11] <daubers> awilkins: There was a 15-20% jump on Monday
[09:11] <bigcalm> iclebyte: I also spent far too much time and money in the local pubs during my college days
[09:11] <daubers> (wholesale)
[09:12] <bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
[09:12] <brobostigon> hi bigcalm
[09:12] <awilkins> daubers, More that that, I remember 1TB drives being about £64 incVAT
[09:12] <daubers> awilkins: Sorry, that's wholesale (what we buy them at at work) obviously retail ones will go higher still
[09:12] <awilkins> Now they are in the £90 region
[09:12] <awilkins> Grr.
[09:13] <daubers> awilkins: We spent about 50-60k on drives last week to try and weather this out :)
[09:13] <awilkins> Just as I was thinking of building a new MythTV box ( hi there ikonia !! :) )
[09:13] <ali1234> so what happened then?
[09:13] <awilkins> A flood destroyed 1/3rd of the worlds hard drive production in Thailand
[09:13] <ali1234> i see
[09:13] <daubers> Flooding in thailand has destroyed western digi plants and hitachi plants
[09:14] <daubers> also, 75% of the motors used in HDD's were produced there
[09:14] <bigcalm> Ah
[09:14] <MartijnVdS> daubers: ouch
[09:14] <awilkins> Ah, that's rather more serious then
[09:14] <bigcalm> Indeed
[09:14] <daubers> WD reckon they'll have their plant running at some capacity by feb/march
[09:14] <oimon> anyone else dicsovered big issues since upgrading thunderbird? i get 5 second lag when typing plain text email
[09:15] <daubers> hitachi will probably be similar
[09:15] <Dave2> a/sb end
[09:15] <awilkins> So drives for the immediate future are going to be expensive, and crap (non-optimized production lines making components they previously didn't)
[09:15] <daubers> Yup
[09:15] <MartijnVdS> so.. switch to Seagate?
[09:15] <daubers> awilkins: Moral of the story is, ssd's might suddenly become more popular
[09:15] <czajkowski> gah VLC you will be the death of me
[09:15] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Seagate will go up too, as they won't be able to ramp up production enough to fill the gap
[09:15] <czajkowski> keeps flipping crashing and stopping and no sound mid way
[09:16] <awilkins> daubers, The SSD pricing is already getting to the point where I'd get one for a main system drive
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> I want 1TB or larger SSD
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> + affordable
[09:16] <awilkins> daubers, But I still need large drives for my gaming habit
[09:16] <daubers> awilkins: Yeah, I almost bought one for my laptop, but bike test next month means no moneys
[09:16] <jpds> MartijnVdS: Would you like a pony with that?
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> jpds: Yes please. And the moon. On a stick.
[09:16] <daubers> MartijnVdS: I just had a delivery of 600GB ones, only about £700 a piece I think
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> daubers: getting there, but not quite :)
[09:25] <MartijnVdS> daubers: your UTF-8 is broken (you're sending Latin1)
[09:26] <daubers> Hmmm? It's whatever xchat is set to
[09:26] <bigcalm> Hybrid
[09:28] <awilkins> It's set in the server prefs
[09:28] <awilkins> The default for "Ubuntu Server" appears to be UTF-8
[09:29]  * awilkins is surprised and also incredulous - ‽
[09:30] <daubers> Mine was indeed set to Hybrid
[09:30] <awilkins> What is Hybrid ... it's not even on my list (xchat-gnome)
[09:30] <bigcalm> popey: got a moment to look at something for me?
[09:31] <bigcalm> I really should see a doctor, but I'm lazy
[09:31]  * Laney wolf whistles
[09:33] <bigcalm> awilkins: it's listed as IRC (Latin/Unicode Hybrid)
[09:33] <bigcalm> YMMV in xchat-gnome
[09:34] <awilkins> bigcalm, It doesn't seem available. Hooray for progress :)
[09:34] <bigcalm> *shrug*
[09:35] <popey> bigcalm: wassup?
[09:35] <bigcalm> Aha
[09:40] <nubae> Join #ltsp
[09:40] <MartijnVdS> nubae: you need to add a / in front of that :)
[09:40] <nubae> yes i know :-) slip of the hand
[09:41] <BigRedS> ah, that reminds me. I'm after a windows terminal server-alike way of getting at a remote ubuntu machine
[09:41] <BigRedS> pointedly, with a desktop matching the resolution of the *client* rather than the server
[09:41] <BigRedS> and I can't seem to find one
[09:42] <nubae> BigRedS, ummm  can u explain that a bit better, its slightly confusing
[09:42] <nubae> in linux we have LTSP linux terminal server
[09:42] <nubae> in windows,  citrix, or if u want to go that way AD (LDAP)
[09:43] <oimon> BigRedS: i like freenx.
[09:43] <nubae> either way what do u want to run on the clients, linux or windows?
[09:43] <oimon> you can suspend sessions and use ssl certs for access..and it's SUPER fast
[09:44] <nubae> thats not quite the same as a terminal system
[09:44] <BigRedS> nubae: er, clients will be debian or ubuntu
[09:45] <nubae> then my suggestion, run ltsp, even if its off a windows virtualised partition
[09:46] <BigRedS> ltsp off windows? hm?
[09:46]  * BigRedS wanders off to look at ltsp
[09:46] <nubae> What would be better is a dedicated LTSP server of course
[09:46] <BigRedS> no it wouldn't
[09:46] <nubae> but i suppose u need the windows server for something
[09:47] <BigRedS> I basically want VNC but I want to view the remote desktop at the resolution of the local monitor
[09:47] <nubae> then oimon is right, run freenx
[09:48] <AlanBell> BigRedS: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15816/changing-the-resolution-of-a-vnc-session-in-linux
[09:48] <nubae> ltsp is probably too much too soon for you
[09:48] <nubae> or vmware or virtualbox
[09:48] <BigRedS> ltsp just looks like it's solving a different problem
[09:48] <BigRedS> virtualbox?
[09:49] <nubae> both do full screen
[09:49] <nubae> yes oracles version of vmware
[09:49] <nubae> opensource version
[09:49] <BigRedS> no, I know what it is
[09:49] <BigRedS> I just don't understand how it helps
[09:49] <oimon> btw freenx does not show the desktop like VNC, it allows multiple resumable sessions at the display res you choose
[09:49] <nubae> right
[09:50] <nubae> he doesnt want vnc i dont think
[09:50] <nubae> think of the latency
[09:50] <nubae> multiple vnc sessions at once
[09:50] <nubae> gah
[09:50] <oimon> oof
[09:50] <oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/4zuLKh5Zz4Et4OrRcrIl94
[09:51] <oimon> allows choice of DE and screen res.
[09:51] <BigRedS> I have a PC on my desk with a biggish monitor, and another in another room with a diddy monitor on it. I'd like to connect to it with a big monitor, basically.
[09:51] <BigRedS> it's all on the same gigE net so latency's really not likely to be a problem. I'm pondering bodging a length of cat5 into a vga cable...
[09:51] <nubae> ummmm...
[09:52] <MartijnVdS> HDMI-over-Cat5e extender? :)
[09:52] <nubae> and what do both systems run?
[09:52] <nubae> windows?
[09:52] <BigRedS> no
[09:52] <BigRedS> they're both ubuntu
[09:52] <BigRedS> well, there's a debian client, too, but I don't really midn what I use
[09:52] <nubae> so just do a ssh -X
[09:52] <BigRedS> I imagine the client is the easy bit
[09:52] <BigRedS> yeah, that had ocurred to me, I just assumed there was some more, er, pretty way
[09:53] <AlanBell> BigRedS: check out xpra as well
[09:53] <nubae> whats unpretty about that? u can always write a script to make it pretty
[09:53] <AlanBell> then you can move running apps between machines
[09:53] <dwatkins> BigRedS: you mean have the monitors next to each other, or mirror the image to them both? You can send VGA over CAT5 if you really want.
[09:54] <BigRedS> Nah, I want to have almost exactly VNC, but have the remote desktop be dictated by the resolution of the client's. Or be arbitrary
[09:55] <BigRedS> and I assumed there'd be some sort of even-my-dad-could-do-it methd which I could try, and file some bugs about or something
[09:55] <nubae> have u looked at vinagre?
[09:55] <nubae> its a vnc alternative
[09:55] <BigRedS> AlanBell: Oooh, that looks like fun
[09:55] <nubae> it might allow for that
[09:55] <BigRedS> it's a vnc client isn't it?
[09:55] <oimon> is xpra like synergy?
[09:56] <oimon> !info xpra
[09:56] <lubotu3`> xpra (source: parti-all): X Persistent Remote Applications. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.0.6-0ubuntu10 (natty), package size 41 kB, installed size 264 kB
[09:56] <nubae> it is, but its a really good one
[09:56] <dwatkins> BigRedS: you mean remote control VNC or join-together-two-machines VNC like with Synergy+?
[09:56] <BigRedS> I like the "So basically it's screen for remote X apps. " from their site
[09:56] <BigRedS> remote control
[09:57] <dwatkins> x11vnc?
[09:57] <nubae> if u are going vnc route choose vinagre
[09:58] <dwatkins> I use that to grab the existing display (i.e. VGA console) of my server and continue with existing apps, as opposed to starting a new X session on a virtual display number.
[09:58] <BigRedS> almost exactly the 'remote desktop connection' thing that ubuntu ships with, or tightvnc or whatever, but where I get a desktop whose resolution matches my monitor, not that of the server
[09:58] <nubae> trust me
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> vinagre++
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> nubae: except it doesn't talk to realvnc servers (on windows)
[09:58] <MartijnVdS> I just get "Connection closed"
[09:58] <nubae> yreah but he wants ubuntu to ubuntu
[09:58] <BigRedS> I thought vinagre was just a vnc client? Can the client set the resolution? I assumed that was down to the server
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: the client can scale down
[09:59] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: (or up) as necessary
[09:59] <dwatkins> There used to be a way to have persistent virtual VNC sessions.
[10:00] <dwatkins> I've done it on SLES before, where you can log back in to server:11 and still have your apps there
[10:00] <dwatkins> (11 being arbirtary)
[10:00] <dwatkins> (perhaps even arbitrary, too)
[10:00] <oimon> i even find VNC sucks a bit on the LAN too
[10:00] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: yeah, i've got scaling, but that's just done by making the pixels bigger :)
[10:01] <BigRedS> yeah, it's not great. I used to do a boatload of support by vncing over a lan...
[10:03] <nubae> yep, which is why real pros use ltsp ;-) :p
[10:04] <BigRedS> I must've completely misunderstood what ltsp is
[10:05] <popey> BigRedS: you're not pro :D
[10:05] <BigRedS> popey: Good lord no! I've seen professionalism and I don't like it :)
[10:06] <nubae> it'll take while to sink in... but its a terminal server
[10:06] <popey> "Not for me!"
[10:06] <nubae> ie clients are just dummy clients
[10:06] <BigRedS> nubae: yeah, it's basically citrix for linux isn't it? I don't get how that helps with VNCing to workstations
[10:06] <bigcalm> Sounds like my work
[10:07] <BigRedS> but that's mostly besides the point. I don't deal with things that have mice any more generally :)
[10:07] <nubae> u wouldnt need to
[10:07] <nubae> u install ltsp on the computer with small monitor
[10:08] <nubae> then u do a session from big monitor one
[10:09] <BigRedS> and I can still log in locally to the diddy one?
[10:09] <BigRedS> I suppose at worst I'd just need to initate a session to localhost presumably
[10:09] <nubae> getting everythin running smooth as hell from ltsp session
[10:10] <nubae> sure u ¡can set up fat clients in ltsp
[10:10] <nubae> and anywya it goes by accounts
[10:10] <nubae> ie... ever user has their own account so u set one up for diddy
[10:11] <nubae> and one for biggy
[10:11] <BigRedS> but I want the same desktop on both
[10:11] <nubae> even easier
[10:11] <nubae> login with diddy on both
[10:12] <nubae> whatever what u hack it there's a solution
[10:12] <nubae> go read up on ltsp first
[10:12] <BigRedS> haha, yeah. I was just hoping for a more, er, simple one :)
[10:12] <nubae> think there is a primer somewhere
[10:12] <nubae> well ull learn a hell of a lot
[10:13] <nubae> and its stuff worth learning
[10:13] <nubae> u might finally understand how linux really works ;-)
[10:13] <BigRedS> Nah, I get enough of that in the day really
[10:14] <BigRedS> I'm trying quite hard to be a normal user when I get home :)
[10:14] <nubae> either way setting it up is a 3 step process
[10:14] <nubae> its easy
[10:14] <BigRedS> cool. I'll have a faff next time I manage to get annoyed at screen resolutions :) ta
[10:14] <nubae> its just the internals which are fascinating and cool
[10:15] <BigRedS> can the internals be easily avoided?
[10:16] <gordonjcp> internals of what?
[10:16] <BigRedS> ltsp
[10:17] <BigRedS> I just want to press 'go' and have the thing work
[10:17] <gordonjcp> oh, that stuff
[10:17] <BigRedS> it does graphics, graphics scare me
[10:17] <gordonjcp> isn't it just vnc with some extra bumf stuck on?
[10:17] <BigRedS> probably. All I want is VNC where the resolution is dictated by that of the client rather than the server
[10:17] <BigRedS> I think I might just accept the scaling and be done with it
[10:17] <gordonjcp> I don't ge tthe point of that
[10:17] <BigRedS> depends how bored/annoyed I get
[10:17] <gordonjcp> surely that's what X is for?
[10:18] <BigRedS> yeah, that was my first thought. Here's a chance to learn X, run an X client on one machine and an X server on the other
[10:18] <BigRedS> and then I remembered about X and thought that that's just a way to get really irritated
[10:18] <ali1234> why don';t you just use X?
[10:18] <ali1234> it's much easier to use than VNC
[10:19] <gordonjcp> well yeah, but if you're using X to begin with you may as well just tunnel it over ssh and save yourself the bother
[10:19] <ali1234> VNC never works right
[10:19] <nubae> ssh -X
[10:19] <nubae> never fails
[10:20] <ali1234> i have never seen it fail
[10:20] <nubae> thast by fair the easiest solution
[10:20] <ali1234> even when the local X server is completely messed up, ssh -X localhost always seems to work
[10:20] <jpds> xpra++
[10:20] <jpds> Much better than ssh -X
[10:20] <BigRedS> it was more that I was expecting the built in clicky way of doing it to work and when it didn't I wondered if there was some other method I could use that would also be appropriate for pointing other people at
[10:20] <ali1234> it's also very handy for when you added yourself to a group and don't want to logout
[10:21] <AlanBell> !info openerp-client
[10:21] <lubotu3`> openerp-client (source: openerp-client): Enterprise Resource Management (client). In component universe, is optional. Version 5.0.14-1 (natty), package size 529 kB, installed size 2896 kB
[10:21] <AlanBell> yay, nobody got round to updating it :)
[10:21] <ali1234> xpra has all the same flaws that VNC has
[10:22] <jpds> ali1234: Such as?
[10:23] <ali1234> such as it reduces everything to bitmaps
[10:23] <ali1234> and presumably has no encryption
[10:23] <jpds> ali1234: xpra can use SSH.
[10:23] <jpds> xpra attach ssh:IP.address:1
[10:24] <ali1234> yeah, well, you can tunnel vnc through ssh as well, if you screw around with it long enough
[10:26] <jpds> But, yeah; in my experience xpra isn't anywhere near as latent as ssh -X.
[10:28] <oimon> is it weird that the postoffice owners were burning joss sticks in the shop today? it was a bit overpowering and nauseating
[10:29] <bigcalm> Maybe they have egg sandwiches for lunch
[10:32] <daubers> bigcalm: Now I'm even hungrier
[10:32] <oimon> it was 9am, just opened
[10:32] <oimon> massive queue of OAPs at 9.01
[10:33] <daubers> "When I was a lad this was all post offices as far as the eye can see"?
[10:33] <DJones> oimon: Were the the post office owners Hindu by any chance, I think today it a major celebration (Dewali) for them
[10:33] <oimon> ah, possibly
[10:33] <oimon> lots of fireworks last night
[10:37] <DJones> Whoever was talking about the HDD prices & flooding destroying/damaging factories cause shortages http://regmedia.co.uk/2011/10/27/wd_lake_3.jpg
[10:37] <oimon> reading RMS "rider" of requirements confirm my suspicions that he is an aspie https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html
[10:38] <gordonjcp> s/aspie/arsehat/
[10:38] <gordonjcp> ftfy
[10:38] <ali1234> where's the list part?
[10:38] <oimon> well, it explains why he acts like he does, and can't help it
[10:39] <ali1234> "I do not eat breakfast.  Please do not ask me any questions about what I will do breakfast.  Please just do not bring it up."
[10:39] <ali1234> lol
[10:39] <gordonjcp> oimon: because he's a total dick?
[10:40] <oimon> gordonjcp: no. he might act like one, but if he has aspergers it explains his behaviour
[10:40] <gordonjcp> with the social skills of a telephone pole?
[10:40] <gordonjcp> pff
[10:40] <gordonjcp> I'm inclined to disagree
[10:40] <gordonjcp> there are plenty of people with Aspergers who are not self-important pricks
[10:40] <oimon> people with aspie syndrome generally don't get made spokesman for a company
[10:41] <oimon> for good reason
[10:41] <ali1234> here's the thing
[10:41] <oimon> he is delivering the conditions for relating to him and accomodating him
[10:41] <oimon> he needs a PR person for his outbursts
[10:42] <popey> he needs to step down
[10:42] <gordonjcp> he needs to shut the hell up
[10:42] <ali1234> all you people need to stop complaining about RMS and take a look at yourselves
[10:42] <gordonjcp> and stop making ridiculous demands in his rider
[10:42] <ali1234> i don't see him making any ridiculous demands
[10:42] <ali1234> i see *you* making ridiculous demands about what he must do
[10:42] <gordonjcp> ffs, notable dickheads Oasis don't have as much arseholery in their rider
[10:43] <oimon> really? they walk off stage rather easily. that is due to ego though
[10:43] <ali1234> if you don't like it you are free to not ask him to come and talk at your event
[10:43] <kvarley> gordonjcp:Watch your language please.
[10:43] <gordonjcp> oimon: right, but their rider is rather less rectocranially-orientated
[10:44] <gordonjcp> oimon: if rms walked off stage mid-blether it could only be an improvement
[10:44] <ali1234> "A microphone is desirable if the room is large.  No other facilities are needed."
[10:44] <gordonjcp> at least you might miss him singing
[10:44] <ali1234> so unreasonable
[10:44] <ali1234> how could we ever accomodate such incredible requests such as the availability of a microphone at a lecture?
[10:44] <ali1234> it's simply impossible i tell you
[10:45] <gordonjcp> ali1234: look at his demands for internet connectivity, then
[10:45] <popey> it doesnt strike me as unreasonable
[10:45] <popey> none of it is unreasonable. it's quirky
[10:45] <ali1234> none of it is unreasonable, and most of it probably exists because at some time in the past, someone asked him
[10:45] <ali1234> and so it got added to the list
[10:45] <gordonjcp> popey: his big long list of stuff he won't eat is fairly unreasonable
[10:45] <ali1234> that's where riders come from, all of them
[10:46] <oimon> do you agree that he is probably aspie though?
[10:46] <gordonjcp> he did that when he came to glasgow, demanded fed and then refused to eat anywhere we suggested
[10:46] <gordonjcp> oimon: no
[10:46] <oimon> ali?
[10:46] <ali1234> i dunno
[10:46] <ali1234> i don't think you can make a medical diagnosis based on such little evidence
[10:47] <oimon> i am usually right in my diagnoses
[10:47] <oimon> i know quite a few
[10:48] <gordonjcp> so do I, so do most of us
[10:48] <gordonjcp> in my limited experience of clinical psychology I'd guess he probably is a *little* to the aspie end of the spectrum but that is mostly overridden by his vastly overinflated pompous ego
[10:50] <gordonjcp> from my experience I find that people with aspergers tend to have rather better manners than rms exhibits
[10:50] <oimon> nobody can claim they weren't told of his requirements :)
[10:50] <gordonjcp> even if they are a bit odd in their social contact
[10:54] <popey> oimon: i would be surprised if he wasn't aspie
[10:54] <oimon> maybe they could fork the FSF
[10:54] <ali1234> so his entirely unreasonable demands relating to internet connection consists of: a secure internet connection where ssh works
[10:55] <oimon> and a bit more
[10:56] <awilkins> "Meetina a sad parrot is not an agreeable surprise"
[10:56] <awilkins> I don't think that's unreasonable, even it's a bit odd to state it up dront
[10:56] <oimon> nothing to ID him, no proxy, hotel doesn't ask for passport, nothing wireless,..
[10:56] <awilkins> And my typing is very off today
[10:56] <ali1234> the only possible reason that entire paragraph could be in there is because one time someone did exactly that
[10:57] <awilkins> Quite possibly
[10:57] <popey> indeed, the whole document smacks of lots of notes made after individual failures
[10:57] <oimon> he feels compelled to validate everything (except breakfast)
[10:57] <ali1234> popey: exactly my reading of it
[10:57] <ali1234> like i said, that's where *all* those crazy rock'n'roll riders come from
[10:58] <oimon> he could just say, don't buy me a parrot...or not mention the parrot thing at all
[10:58] <popey> i think you're overanalysing it :D
[10:59] <oimon> this document  explains him more than any interview
[10:59] <ali1234> it doesn't say "don't buy me a parrot"
[10:59] <ali1234> it says "don't buy a parrot (for yourself) to try to impress me"
[11:00] <oimon> oh yeah
[11:00] <gordonjcp> yeah, I mean he wants to stay in a hotel that won't ask for a credit card or any form of ID
[11:00] <gordonjcp> good luck with that
[11:00] <awilkins> He prefers to stay with private individuals
[11:01] <awilkins> One of my colleagues saw him leaving Leeds train station when he came to give a talk here.
[11:01] <ali1234> i've never needed anything other than the WPA key in any hotel i've ever been in
[11:01] <ali1234> and the key is usually the name of the hotel or something silly like that
[11:02]  * Laney is enjoying the quiz
[11:02] <ali1234> of course it usually doesn't work properly, because wireless is a bit rubbish like that
[11:02] <popey> :D
[11:02] <oimon> on the continent , ID cards are typical so they would expect a passport to be shown to stay at a hotel. i had trouble visiting a client at a bank because they wanted my passport, and i'd left it at the hotel
[11:02] <Laney> i think i know what is officially supported
[11:02] <popey> yeah, I thought I did too! :D
[11:02] <Laney> don't want to say
[11:02] <awilkins> I'm recognizing lots of my own traits in here, to be honest
[11:03] <awilkins> So pretty aspie
[11:03] <oimon> everyone has particular likes and dislikes. and i assume he is single, so used to getting his own way. however he is quite extreme on the spectrum
[11:03] <awilkins> Although I'm more socially adjusted than this... but I haven't lived at MIT for most of my life
[11:03] <oimon> and you don't eat your feet in front of an audience
[11:04] <oimon> i hope
[11:04] <Laney> yay, i was right
[11:04] <awilkins> Nope
[11:04] <Laney> "what is on ports.ubuntu.com" was my guide
[11:04]  * oimon remembered every dr who except for the current one :-\
[11:05] <MooDoo> oimon: why not the current one?
[11:05] <oimon> couldn't remember his surname
[11:06] <awilkins> "Smith"
[11:06] <oimon> AKA chinhead
[11:06] <MooDoo> lol
[11:06] <ali1234> mike smith right?
[11:06] <awilkins> Matt Smith
[11:06]  * oimon wonders who matt baker is
[11:07] <ali1234> who am i thinking of?
[11:07] <MooDoo> oimon: the one show
[11:07] <oimon> LOL..probably influenced by 2 other dr's
[11:07] <MooDoo> oimon: he's also on country file
[11:07] <Myrtti> PSA: Adobe has -50% off from Lightroom today if you get it from their site. Not strictly Ubuntu news, but thought someone might be interested
[11:07] <ali1234> what's lightroom?
[11:07] <MooDoo> Myrtti: already have it :D
[11:07] <MooDoo> ali1234: windows version of darktables
[11:08] <ali1234> is it photoshop?
[11:08] <Myrtti> MooDoo: or mac
[11:08] <MooDoo> photography work flow solution
[11:08] <MooDoo> ali1234: no
[11:08] <ali1234> why would i want it then?
[11:08] <MooDoo> ali1234: no editing, but you can do a hell of a lot with it
[11:08] <awilkins> More for pro photographers, isn't it
[11:08] <MooDoo> awilkins: nope not really, anyone can use it :
[11:09] <MooDoo> brilliant for catalogin
[11:09] <awilkins> I go for the "big folder" method
[11:09] <MooDoo> ie everyting in one folder?
[11:10] <MooDoo> well i think it's interesting Myrtti thanks, although i already am a user :)
[11:12] <ali1234> £1,509 for CS production :(
[11:12] <MooDoo> worth it though if you're into all that :)
[11:12] <ali1234> no it isn't
[11:13] <MooDoo> why not?
[11:15] <awilkins> I seem to be channeling Stallman now in my latest email to boss about why phone conferences are not useful to me for discussing technical issues
[11:16] <awilkins> Always a risk when I read an extended section of prose ... absorb it's personality
[11:17] <ali1234> wow, if you buy photoshop, after effect, and illustrator separately it costs £2000
[11:18] <oimon> awilkins: i started doing it too!
[11:18] <oimon> i wrote about what happened when a user demanded admin rights on a pc
[11:18] <MooDoo> ali1234: that's why it's better to buy production
[11:18] <ali1234> they are basically paying you £500 to take a free copy of flash :)
[11:18] <oimon> went on a rant, and had to delete it as a tangent
[11:19] <ali1234> hey, if you go through the business site, it;s £100 less
[11:20] <oimon> and the edu site..even better
[11:29] <jacobw2> Afternoon
[11:31] <MooDoo> afternoon
[11:34] <popey> oooo better sandy bridge support in linux 3.1
[11:34] <popey> wonder if that means minecraft will work properly on my i7 now
[11:34]  * popey pokes gord and ali1234 who know about these things
[11:34] <awilkins> popey, Isn't Minecraft support more to do with OpenGL drivers?
[11:34] <ali1234> i don't know anything about it
[11:35] <gordonjcp> I bet there were at least two people pretty much as influential in Free software as rms at Oggcamp
[11:35] <gordonjcp> imagine if we all presented riders like that
[11:35] <ali1234> yeah right
[11:35] <ali1234> who?
[11:35] <gordonjcp> I don't know
[11:35] <ali1234> i mean, if you include people who are a bad influence, and just want to compromise the ideals to get short term success, then maybe
[11:35] <gordonjcp> lol
[11:35] <popey> heh
[11:36] <gordonjcp> ali1234: back under your bridge, you ;-)
[11:36]  * gordonjcp -> food
[11:36] <popey> hah!
[11:38] <jacobw2> minecraft doesn't work on your i7?
[11:39] <awilkins> What's better, BTW, i5 or i7?
[11:39] <awilkins> I hate this modern trend for model numbers not meaning ANYTHING
[11:40] <awilkins> I get why they do it instead of model names ; you think "Celeron - inferior"
[11:40] <awilkins> But I just think i3 ? i5 ? i7 ? My brain hurts
[11:41] <jacobw2> ha, "celeron.. inferior" is my thought process exactly.
[11:41] <popey> it is what you think it is
[11:41] <popey> jacobw2: it works but the graphics corrupt
[11:42]  * awilkins just thinks the processor with the most L2 cache is the best these days
[11:43]  * GirlyGirl wonders what's up with the linux folk and minecraft
[11:44] <jacobw2> minecrack
[11:44] <popey> hmm?
[11:44] <MooDoo> GirlyGirl: ti's a good program :D
[11:44] <awilkins> It's one of the games that ought to run as well on Linux as Windows.... and it also appeals to the mindset that Linux appeals to as well
[11:44] <awilkins> You can make of the game what you want of it, as long as you have the skill
[11:45] <jacobw2> i've still not tried it
[11:45] <RhysMorgan> Afternoon All
[11:46] <RhysMorgan> HOw can I get apt to use a proxy which requires domain level authentication?
[11:46] <RhysMorgan> I have tried export http_proxy=http://domain\user:pass@proxy:port/
[11:46]  * awilkins has not reached the Minecraft Event Horizon where you get good enough to be really drawn into it
[11:46] <RhysMorgan> but that doesn;t seem to work
[11:46] <awilkins> RhysMorgan, ISA server? NTLM auth?
[11:46] <RhysMorgan> awilkins,
[11:46] <RhysMorgan> awilkins, yes
[11:46] <awilkins> RhysMorgan, One of the more successful approaches I've tried is ntlmaps
[11:47] <popey> +1
[11:47] <popey> i use that too
[11:47] <popey> works _brilliantly_
[11:47] <awilkins> It's a python proxy server that does the auth for you
[11:47] <awilkins> And you connect programs to that
[11:47] <RhysMorgan> Will take a look thankyou
[11:47] <popey> i have to use it at work to get a stupid java download tool working through the stupid proxy
[11:47] <awilkins> The more secure NTLM config that's becoming more prevalent needs you to tweak the default config from just LM to LM & NT though
[11:48] <awilkins> It locked me out of the domain yesterday because I hadn't done that
[11:48] <awilkins> It was the first time I had used it in a while
[11:49] <awilkins> The other thing I do for the office proxy is open an SSH tunnel to my router at home and put everything over SOCKS
[11:50] <popey> yeah, i do that too
[11:50] <RhysMorgan> It would be nice if Ubuntu had an OS level way of setting the proxy like on mac
[11:50] <awilkins> I hate bloody ISA server configured to do NTLM
[11:50] <popey> it does
[11:50] <awilkins> RhysMorgan, It does, but alas, it's not the best design I can think of
[11:50] <popey> some apps dont respect it
[11:50]  * popey coughs Ubuntu One
[11:50] <awilkins> Heh, yes
[11:50] <popey> although thats on the plan for this cycle
[11:50] <RhysMorgan> lol, oversight?
[11:51] <awilkins> And if you use a PAC script, it just passes the URL to the application
[11:51] <popey> its because the vast majority of free software developers dont sit behind a proxy
[11:51] <awilkins> I think that's mental
[11:51] <RhysMorgan> and apt doesn;t respect that?
[11:51] <popey> if they did they'd realise what a massive pain in the arse it is
[11:51] <popey> it does
[11:51] <BigRedS> RhysMorgan: its be good if it was possible to have them ignore it, too :)
[11:51] <awilkins> Does apt understand PAC scripts?
[11:51] <popey> no
[11:52] <awilkins> I use a PAC script, my browsers understand it, but apt / update-manager don't
[11:52] <popey> misunderstood
[11:52] <awilkins> Thinking about it, it would be better if the OS just provided a local proxy if you used a PAC script
[11:52] <awilkins> Even better for the apps that can't use a SOCKS proxy
[11:53] <awilkins> Previously I thought it would just be great if the OS supplied libproxy support
[11:54] <awilkins> So if you have a PAC script rather than passing the script URI to applications asking for proxy, it just starts a proxy server and passes it's local URI
[11:54] <RhysMorgan> Sounds like an RFE in the making :P
[11:54] <popey> i never use pac scripts I just look for the proxy server address and use that
[11:55] <popey> pac scripts are for windows users, not me
[11:55] <awilkins> popey, I use PAC scripts because I move the machine between networks
[11:55] <RhysMorgan> You should see the size of the pac script used where I am working at the moment
[11:55] <popey> so do i
[11:55] <awilkins> popey, I guess we just have different tolerances for reconfiguring things
[11:56] <awilkins> I use the PAC script for browsing, and tsocks for other things
[11:56] <popey> heh
[11:56] <popey> yeah
[11:56] <awilkins> I don't even think Empathy does PAC scripts
[11:56] <awilkins> Probably not Gwibber either
[11:57] <RhysMorgan> My window title bars have all just disappeared :O
[11:57] <jacobw2> if its useful, Empathy won't do it
[11:57] <awilkins> I install Pidgin for this purpose because it's awkward to start Empathy with tsocks
[11:58] <awilkins> But this kind of thing is why GNU/Linux distributions are perceived as not ready for Enterprise (tm)
[11:58] <awilkins> Really, all the default apps should support the full gamut of proxy features
[11:58] <oimon> has anyone successfully stripped DRM from a kindle file? some of my books are >50 years old, i would want my ebooks to last that long. and the only way i can assure that is by ensuring they will work in future ebook readers before investing in them
[11:58] <BigRedS> awilkins: it's the rules: wait until it's nearly ready, then start working on a replacement
[11:59] <BigRedS> oimon: I haven't, but I know several people who have
[12:00] <oimon> BigRedS: good answer :) it's prob legal for books we own
[12:01] <BigRedS> I doubt it :(
[12:01] <BigRedS> but yeah, not me guv. honest!
[12:02] <ali1234> i have stripped drm from an ebook that was compatible with the kindle, but it wasn't in kindle format
[12:02] <ali1234> i can't remember what format it was in
[12:02] <oimon> i just discovered that there are ebook lending libraries
[12:03] <oimon> however they have limited copies of books
[12:03] <oimon> and it's mainly Z-list biogs
[12:04] <awilkins> Yeah, they are allowed to lend each eBook about 20 times because that's how long it takes to wear out a paper one
[12:04] <ali1234> i was looking in the kindle "blogs" section
[12:04] <ali1234> it's like 75% erotic fiction
[12:04] <ali1234> i was shocked
[12:04] <ali1234> i did not expect this
[12:04] <awilkins> Which is nuts - hey, let's take one of the major selling points of electronic media, and make sure we completely negate it!
[12:05] <oimon> http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries#London
[12:05] <awilkins> I'm also shocked by the stats on how long it takes to wear out paper books
[12:05] <awilkins> Are people really that careless?
[12:05] <ali1234> does kindle support epub?
[12:05]  * oimon used to work in a library
[12:05] <ali1234> if it does, that's probably what format it was
[12:05] <oimon> ali1234: no. despite epub being the digital book standard
[12:05] <awilkins> oimon, Do they use kippers for bookmarks, or something?
[12:06] <ali1234> oh it was a .mobi format
[12:06] <oimon> kindle supports that
[12:06] <ali1234> yeah
[12:07] <oimon> i hated getting the returned books with sticky covers
[12:08] <oimon> now i have a kid, i love the ability to get childrens books from teh library.
[12:08] <awilkins> I have very fond memories of my weekly trip to the library with mother
[12:08] <oimon> as an adult i'd only use it othrewise if ebook lending was widespread
[12:09] <awilkins> They are closing our local library. Which was a pale shadow of the library back home anyway.
[12:10] <awilkins> I'd suggest making it into an ebook library with a cafe, but that would be scuppered by the need for a reader.
[12:10] <awilkins> And the publishers, who don't actually want you to have ebooks
[12:10] <DJones> oimon: I worked/volunteered in a library as well, didn't get paid, just did it because I loved reading & it got me all the latestest books before they went on the shelves
[12:11] <oimon> my sister used to work for a publisher. a huge cost goes into the cover design and printing and binding. they are ripping off consumers of ebooks
[12:12] <oimon> "Kindle Format 8 will replace the existing Mobi format Amazon used previously" wonder if that means what i think it means
[12:13] <oimon> i hate being tied into kindle
[12:14] <oimon> but wifey has one
[12:14] <RhysMorgan> I refuse to buy a kindle, although I think they have come up with a great concept, as always it's marred by vendor lock-ins
[12:16] <oimon> if only epub worked on it
[12:16] <RhysMorgan> I'm still searching for a decent solution for the iPad that I can use in conjunction with dropbox
[12:18] <BigRedS> I'm using a kindle without any vendor lockin
[12:18] <BigRedS> I've not bought anything from amazon
[12:18] <BigRedS> I just feed it free (and, er, 'freed') ebooks
[12:18] <oimon> which format do you use? or convert with calibre?
[12:18] <RhysMorgan> But doesn't that negate the "think of it and start reading in 30 seconds" concept?
[12:18] <BigRedS> yeah
[12:18] <BigRedS> oimon: I have, er, friends that send stuff to me
[12:18] <BigRedS> I've ignored most of the details
[12:19] <BigRedS> mobis I think
[12:19] <RhysMorgan> It would be cool if like the cydia idea you could direct a kindle at a secondary repository
[12:19] <oimon> i understand kindle allows 14 day lending - anyone tried it?
[12:19] <oimon> my mum has loads of books on her kindle and i want to read some
[12:19] <oimon> without changing accounts et
[12:21] <Monsterwizard> I still use a sony e-reader
[12:21] <Monsterwizard> I hate DRM
[12:22] <RhysMorgan> Has anyone got an ipad and found a decent solution?
[12:22] <RhysMorgan> I tend to use my advent vega and use aldiko when I want to read
[12:24] <oimon> !info calibre
[12:24] <lubotu3`> calibre (source: calibre): e-book converter and library management. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.7.44+dfsg-1build1 (natty), package size 9311 kB, installed size 34012 kB
[12:25] <oimon> The latest release of calibre is 0.8.23..looks for ppa
[12:26] <jacobw2> lbotu is looking at natty
[12:27] <oimon> jacobw arrgh i thought they fixed that
[12:27] <oimon> newer calibre on lucid is a dependency beast
[12:28] <oimon> due to python2.7.1 and qt reqs
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> 3
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> 3   `
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> oops, sorry about those
[12:38] <jacobw2> 3?
[12:38] <RhysMorgan> I thought it was 42?
[12:38] <MartijnVdS> laptop came back from suspend with half-open connections :)
[12:39] <MartijnVdS> 3 + 3 = 4 + 2
[12:39] <oimon> total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached / Mem:       1016384     963328      53056          0       5260     848048 /Swap:      1036284    1036284          0
[12:39] <oimon> think i need to change my swappiness?
[12:40] <oimon> 850MB in RAM cache but 1GB swap used.
[12:42] <oimon> xorg seems to be very leaky in xfce
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> oimon: depends on how often you used the in-swap data
[12:43] <oimon> let's say the machine wasn't very responsive :)
[12:43] <RhysMorgan> Why is it after an apt-get upgrade my grub screen now says Debian?
[12:43] <oimon> i wonder what PPAs you have on your machine RhysMorgan
[12:44] <RhysMorgan> all ubuntu natty
[12:45] <RhysMorgan> += jdownloader && natty
[13:02] <gord> rms sure is an odd ball https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html
[13:03] <denny> heyla.  I had to install a fresh 11.10 system recently after I fried my existing system...  I'm having trouble getting DVDs to play.  I followed all the instructions/links I got fed by Totem and by Google and installed various 'bad/ugly/etc' packages, and ran the decss.sh or whatever it's called, but still no go.  Interestingly, VLC does play them (but the audio sync is out).  Any thoughts?
[13:04] <oimon> gord: scrollback to discussion at 11.37 this morning :P
[13:05] <DJones> AlanBell: Is this anything you need to be concerned about http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2011/10/introduction-of-usage-limits-to-maps.html IFrom memory, doesn't the ubuntu-uk map use the google api
[13:06] <DJones> It was linked from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/27/google_maps_api_no_longer_free/
[13:07] <AlanBell> DJones: isn't that old news?
[13:08] <DJones> AlanBell: I don't know, I only just saw it on the register front page, it could well be old new thats coming into effect
[13:09] <AlanBell> ok, it is a new change, but we won't be getting anything like 25,000 hits per day
[13:10] <ali1234> i thought the gmap died?
[13:10] <ali1234> why is it even using google instead of OSM?
[13:15] <AlanBell> show me how to do that with OSM and I totally will do it
[13:15] <ali1234> what does it do? just draw pins on a map of the UK?
[13:15] <AlanBell> the map on Launchpad died because if you want to use https (which launchpad does) then you can't embed a map without paying lots
[13:16] <AlanBell> ali1234: and allows people to place their own pin
[13:16] <AlanBell> without knowing their latitude and longitude
[13:16] <ali1234> is there a kml file somewhere then?
[13:20] <jacobw2> gord: wow
[13:27] <AlanBell> ali1234: http://ubuntu-uk.org/?ajax_map&action=132
[13:47] <gordonjcp> pfft, paranoid Ubuntu battery monitor
[13:47] <gordonjcp> "Low" isn't 20 minutes left, low is 20 seconds left
[13:48] <dogmatic69> i have seen on the web at some point you can use apt-get <something> to output a list of apps installed and then run apt-get <somethingelse> on another server and its all installed. anyone have an idea?
[13:50] <oimon> dogmatic69: it was mentioned on UUPC not so long ago
[13:52] <AlanBell> dpkg --get-selections | grep '[[:space:]]install$'| awk '{print $1}' > installedpackages
[13:52] <oimon> AlanBell: there's a better one
[13:52] <AlanBell> you can do something with dpkg --set-selections
[13:53] <BigRedS> well, you feed set-selections the output of --get-selections
[13:53] <oimon> i think it was popey who explained why there was a better alternative
[13:53] <oimon> something to do with dependencies
[13:53] <AlanBell> dpkg --get-selections >packages.txt
[13:53] <AlanBell> dpkg --set-selections <packages.txt
[13:53] <BigRedS> but you lose the manual/automatic flags on the packages and I can't remember how you're now supposed to do it
[13:53] <oimon> yeah that was it
[13:54] <AlanBell> then sudo apt-get dselect-upgrade
[14:02] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: so just those 3? 1) on first server 2) and 3) on new server?
[14:02] <AlanBell> yeah, I think so
[14:05] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah
[14:05] <dogmatic69> cool, thanks
[14:05] <dogmatic69> will try it now
[14:08] <daubers> Ooooooh coffee time
[14:19] <AlanBell> what is hadoop for?
[14:21] <BigRedS> AlanBell: distributed computing?
[14:21] <BigRedS> that's about the limit of my depth of understanding of it, though
[14:21] <AlanBell> yeah, I get that bit, and I know what map-reduce is, just have no idea who would want to use it
[14:21] <MooDoo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Hadoop
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> Hadoop = amazing
[14:24] <BigRedS> MartijnVdS: that's a bit of a vague description :)
[14:24] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's a framework for applying map/reduce on massive datasets (distributed across lots of machines)
[14:25] <AlanBell> yeah, why would I want to do that?
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Say you have several million phone call records, and you want to generate a bill, one for each calling number
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you could just loop over the millions of records, and wait a long time
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> but using map/reduce, you chop up the data across multiple machines, create a mapping (number, price) for each record
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> then reduce -> sum everything with the same number up
[14:26] <MartijnVdS> so you end up with lots of number -> total_price
[14:27] <MartijnVdS> and it scales up with more hardware, instead of "heavier" hardware (faster CPU etc.)
[14:27] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: or, say, indexing the web
[14:27] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MapReduce
[14:27] <AlanBell> ok
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sk7cOqB9Dk
[14:32] <MartijnVdS> ^ on-line checkout IRL :)
[14:44] <oimon> am i just unlucky or does everyone have to do the u1sdtool -d /-c /-s dance to actually get/send files via ubuntu one?
[15:05] <NET||abuse> hi guys. i was trying to run a little virtual machine setup, using cloudmin on ubuntu, and to run a setup from an ubuntu 11.10 iso unattended?
[15:06] <NET||abuse> is it possible?
[15:06] <BigRedS> I probably wont know the answer, but I can't find the question in that.
[15:06] <BigRedS> ah! Well, preseeding's been around for ever. which is possible but fiddly
[15:06] <NET||abuse> well, it won't install from the default ubuntu 11.10 amd64  server edition iso
[15:07] <NET||abuse> so , yeh, how can i get the install to run unatended
[15:07] <BigRedS> here end my knowledge, though. there's probably a more cloudy way of doing it
[15:08] <NET||abuse> possibly
[15:08] <kirrus> NET||abuse: there's this in the documentation on preseeding: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/installation-guide/i386/appendix-preseed.html
[15:08] <kirrus> Dunno if that helps or not
[15:09] <BigRedS> actually, there's that virt-<something> that builds images for you
[15:09] <BigRedS> that's what yout want
[15:09] <BigRedS> but I can't remember its name
[15:10] <NET||abuse> ooh, sounds good
[15:45] <BigRedS> NET||abuse: I think this is what I was thinking about: https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04/serverguide/C/ubuntu-vm-builder.html
[15:49] <danfish> hello hello
[15:50] <danfish> in the venerable UUPC podcasty thing popey mentioned a commandline util to enable wake on lan
[15:50] <danfish> anyone remember it?
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> danfish:
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> powerwake - remotely wake a napping system
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> wakeonlan - Sends 'magic packets' to wake-on-LAN enabled ethernet adapters
[15:51] <popey> etherwake
[15:51] <MartijnVdS> one of those?
[15:53] <danfish> tx - but I think it was a command to enable the wake on lan on the remote system - or is that a bios only thing?
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> danfish: it's a bios thing
[15:53] <daubers> danfish: Sometimes you can do it using ethtool
[15:53] <daubers> As you might need to enable it on the card (As well as the bios)
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> ethtool -s eth0 wol g
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> ^ wakes up on "magic packet"
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> ethtool -s eth0 wol s
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> ^ wakes up on "magic packet" with password (might not be supported)
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> ethtool -s eth0 sopass foo
[15:54] <MartijnVdS> ^ serts password
[15:55] <danfish> thanks all - spot on as usual :)
[15:55] <MartijnVdS> danfish: Look for the "Supports Wake-on" and "Wake-on" lines in "ethtool" output
[15:56] <danfish> ok
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> Supports Wake-on: pumbg
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> Wake-on: g
[15:56] <MartijnVdS> says mine
[15:56]  * daubers might finally be coming out of caffeine withdrawal \o/
[15:57] <daubers> Only a gentle headache this morning
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> daubers: on which end? :)
[15:57] <danfish> ah - remote machine (revo) seems to have had indigestion with the oneiric update ;)
[15:57] <danfish> will try later
[15:57] <daubers> They do that
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> daubers: (I mean.. by ingesting more caffeine, or by pulling through a caffeine-free phase)
[15:57] <danfish> daubers: how may a day were you?
[15:57] <danfish> s/may/many
[15:58] <daubers> MartijnVdS: By dropping from ~8-9 cups of coffee a day to 2, one in the morning, one at 3
[15:59] <danfish> daubers: I was going to say that's a lot, but I can get through 6 cans of diet coke in a day
[15:59] <daubers> Also, I think the exercise thing is slowly starting to pay off, as I generally seem to have more energy over the past week or so
[16:00] <daubers> danfish: Diet coke is icky. I'm allowed one tin of coke a day if I've been exceptionally productive
[16:01] <daubers> (makes it about a tin a week at the moment)
[16:01] <danfish> daubers: heh - good re the exercise - what are you doing?
[16:01]  * danfish needs to start exercising again
[16:01] <daubers> danfish: Squash \o/ Once a week, as I gave up running as I got bored of it. Doing squash with some mates is a bit more social
[16:01] <daubers> Even if I'm rubbish at it :)
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> ooh
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> ethtool can set network offloading flags
[16:02] <danfish> ooh - I used to play squash and there's a club nearby \o/
[16:02] <daubers> Heh :)
[16:03] <daubers> There's a fair few squash courts in reading, and at ~£6 a session it's not too pocket horrific
[16:07] <danfish> on a week of holiday - chores done 0, exercise done 0, sofa time lots, slob rating 100%
[16:11] <MooDoo> i've got two speeds, slow and stop :D
[16:11] <daubers> heh :)
[16:30] <mattt> danfish: sounds like my holidays
[16:30] <mattt> always have a huge list of things to do
[16:30] <mattt> end up getting nothing done :(
[16:54] <danfish> mattt: I've decided not to beat myself up about it. So long as doing nothing doesn't become a habit ;)
[17:15] <dwatkins> Sounds like most of my weekends.
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> FINALLY
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> http://www.google.com/support/a/bin/answer.py?answer=1631744
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> Google Plus for Apps accounts
[17:46] <popey> ooo
[17:48] <bigcalm> :|
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> http://googleenterprise.blogspot.com/2011/10/google-is-now-available-with-google.html for the blog post
[17:50] <ali1234> we heard you like google, so we put a google in google so you can google while you google
[17:50] <bigcalm> :D
[17:51] <bigcalm> Not gone to the URL, but I assume the + has been dropped from part of the title to make the slug
[17:51] <ali1234> yes
[17:51] <ali1234> but i had to click on it before i figured it out
[17:51] <bigcalm> Ah, not a web dev?
[17:51] <ali1234> yes actually
[17:51] <bigcalm> Oh :S
[17:52] <ali1234> stuff like that always confuses me though
[17:53] <ali1234> that, and the headlines on the BBC news RSS
[17:53] <ali1234> smetimes i have to read them 3 or 4 times before i understand when they mean
[17:53] <bigcalm> Heh
[17:54]  * MartijnVdS adds a few people to Plus
[17:54] <bigcalm> Their command of grammar isn't always understandable with one reading
[18:15] <ali1234> popey: does trublr contain any of my code? or did you end up starting over?
[18:17] <popey> nope, all from scratch
[18:17] <ali1234> does it handle X server restarts gracefully
[18:17] <ali1234> ?
[18:19] <popey> no
[18:19] <popey> but it could do
[18:22] <ali1234> looks good anyway
[18:23] <popey> thanks
[18:24] <popey> needs some work
[18:24] <popey> be nice if it could be financed by donations or something
[18:24] <popey> I really haven't tested how many concurrent connections the server will support
[18:24] <popey> or how much bandwidth it will need per person
[18:26] <ali1234> it's centralized?
[18:27] <ali1234> btw, this is exactly the kind of initiative i wanted to see the other day :)
[18:27] <popey> it routes traffic through a central box, yeah
[18:28] <popey> the client sets up an ssh tunnel to the central box port forwarding from helper to helpee
[18:30] <ali1234> ooo
[18:30] <ali1234> firefox says: "The operation can not be completed because of an internal failure. A secure network communication has not been cleaned up correctly."
[18:30] <popey> nice
[19:38] <Monsterwizard> How come people think I am less technical if I use Xchat on windows?
[19:38] <Monsterwizard> There's no other good IRC clients on Windows :/
[19:38] <ali1234> i use pidgin
[19:39] <ali1234> anyone who judges technical ability based on what irc client you use is a noob
[19:40] <ali1234> same goes for any software
[19:40] <ali1234> it's what you do with it
[19:40] <MartijnVdS> ah, the penis size argument ;)
[19:43] <gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: putty, to ssh to the server where you run irssi in screen
[19:43] <Monsterwizard> it's not the size of the worm it's how you wiggly it?
[19:44] <Monsterwizard> Well I'm gonnna run irc in emacs
[19:44] <Monsterwizard> lol
[19:44] <Monsterwizard> why? oh just to over complicate things for other people when they use the computer
[19:45] <daubers> Evening
[19:50] <gordonjcp> Monsterwizard: that's as good a reason as any
[19:50] <DJones> Heh, the Japanese have made a Terrahawk :) http://laughingsquid.com/spherical-flying-drone-hovers-like-a-helicopter-flies-at-40-mph/
[19:54] <gordonjcp> DJones: Terrahawks!
[19:54] <mgdm> :D
[19:55] <DJones> Gerry Anderson tv series from a few decades ago :)
[19:56] <mgdm> Oh, we know :)
[20:10] <andres-kain> hello, I have my inlaws netbook seems to only boot into busybox.
[20:11] <andres-kain> says mounting/dev on /root/dev failed: no such file or directory
[20:12] <andres-kain> would installing a new version of ubuntu on it work?
[20:14] <ali1234> probably
[20:14] <ali1234> you should boot a live image and examine the partitions for errors
[20:17] <andres-kain> thanks will do that!
[20:19] <andres-kain> not even exit on busy shell works.. kernel panic-not syncing: attempted to kill init!
[20:20] <ali1234> well yeah that will happen if there is no root filesystem
[20:21] <andres-kain> what tool checks partition errors?
[20:21] <ali1234> fdisk and fsck
[20:24] <andres-kain> failed to mount /dev/sda1
[20:27] <andres-kain> ran $dmseg | tail
[20:27] <andres-kain> ext4-fs (sda1): error loadin journal
[20:29] <andres-kain> will this mean something is physically broken?
[20:29] <ali1234> maybe
[20:31] <andres-kain> gparted seems to see the drives.
[20:35] <andres-kain> if i cant mount it, i cannot do fdisk right?
[20:41] <andres-kain> ok, answering myself here: sudo fsck /dev/sda1
[20:42] <andres-kain> ignored some sort of error said yes twice...
[20:43] <andres-kain> claering orfans...
[20:43] <andres-kain> inodes...
[20:47] <andres-kain> ali1234 fdisk lets it mount! great i'll try to mount
[21:14] <ali1234> hahaha butthurt perl programmers
[21:26] <Andres-kain> ali1234 you are my sister-in-law unsung hero. of course i took all the credit of fixing her netbook.
[22:06] <hux__> when I press shut down my pc only logs off
[22:08] <hamitron> you could try the command: sudo shutdown -h 0
[22:08] <hamitron> as a temp fix, till you properly sort it
[22:08] <hux__> thanx hamitron
[23:38] <ali1234> does anyone fancy having a go at this shredder challenge?
[23:41] <Azelphur> shredder challenge?
[23:41] <ali1234> http://www.shredderchallenge.com
[23:42] <Azelphur> way too advanced for me :P
[23:42] <ali1234> not really
[23:42] <ali1234> it's just a jigsaw puzzle
[23:43] <Azelphur> as a human sure, I dunno I guess you could look for color gradients as they continued and make a best effort guess
[23:44] <Azelphur> ali1234: do you know how the shredded documents are being sent to us?
[23:44] <Azelphur> individual scans of every single strip? lol
[23:44] <ali1234> yeah basically
[23:45] <Azelphur> so you've got strips from multiple documents all bundled together, that makes it a little more difficult
[23:45] <ali1234> the first puzzle is only one page
[23:46] <Azelphur> I dunno I guess I can take a look at it, I have done some PIL stuff in python before
[23:46] <Azelphur> although this seems more advanced mathematics than programming, which I'm not amazingly brilliant at xD
[23:48] <ali1234> i feel like the best thing to do would be make a program that cuts out all the individual pieces and then displays them side by side and you click yes/no depending on if they look like they match
[23:49] <Azelphur> that'd be pretty easy
[23:49] <Azelphur> but yea, brb I got food cooking
[23:49] <Myrtti> aw, no fun, must be either US citizen or permanent resident
[23:50] <ali1234> i'm sure we can find someone
[23:50] <Azelphur> "Entries ... must be a permanent resident or citizen of the United States" - way to limit the solution pool
[23:50] <Azelphur> or not, gg
[23:50] <ali1234> or we could just troll the competition by releasing the answers publicly :)
[23:54] <hamitron> or work with someone from the US?