[14:28] <czajkowski> ebel: typing break???
[14:29] <ebel> yes..... (what's the question?)
[14:29] <ebel> I use a typing break (1 min every 10 mins), otherwise my arms/wrists get sore
[14:29] <ebel> Tisn't in gnome anymore ☹ nor unity ☹
[14:31] <ebel> It may be required under S.I. 299 of 2007 to take a typing break (I amn't sure), and hence stock ubuntu may not be suitable for workplaces
[14:31] <czajkowski> hmmmm
[14:31] <czajkowski> let me go ask the Pendulum she knows these things
[14:32] <czajkowski> Pendulum: any ideas thoughts or heard of this in the ally team ?
[14:34] <Pendulum> hmm...
[14:34] <Pendulum> I don't know of thing off the top of my head
[14:34] <Pendulum> *anything
[14:34] <Pendulum> I'll look into it, though
[14:34] <czajkowski> Pendulum: thank you
[14:39] <Pendulum> ebel: what's worse for your arms/wrist mouse or keyboard?
[14:41] <ebel> depends. The equipment matters a lot, e.g. I have a fancy mouse ( http://www.flickr.com/photos/rorymccann/5595018202/ ) and fancy keyboard.
[14:41] <ebel> prolonged use of anything is bad.
[14:42] <ebel> I'm unsure if unity's 'full screen and no window bar' is good or bad from an RSI perspective (I'm guessing bad)
[14:43] <ebel> Since it's full screen & no window bar, I must move my hand off the mouse (& use alt-tab) to switch windows. I can no longer click on window bar.
[14:43] <ebel> So it'll probably be worse for my (left) wrist/arms.
[14:44] <ebel> To answer your question, in this case, keyboard is probably worse for my arms, if I don't take a regular break.
[14:44] <ebel> (although if I don't take breaks and use the mouse a lot that can hurt too.)
[14:47] <ebel> The typing break is also good to prevent RSI with your eyes. Since it's a regular reminder to focus on things that are far away, rather than only looking close for hours. This change in focus prevents eye strain.
[14:47] <ebel> This (requirement for regular eye breaks) is also covered under the law mentioned above (I think).
[14:53] <czajkowski> i've never heard that law inforced of used i the work place
[14:54] <ebel> (A lot of this is from EU law aswell, so would apply all over EU)
[14:54] <czajkowski> nods
[14:54] <ebel> czajkowski: oh yes, i had to look into it.
[14:54] <czajkowski> ebel: just wondered if this has been disucssed on any of the ally listws
[14:54] <czajkowski> lists
[14:55] <czajkowski> as i know many partially sighted people work in hse and never would take a break
[14:55] <ebel> i used to be in gnome, which i thought was cool, then gnome removed it. ☹
[14:55] <czajkowski> ebel: seee if you blogged more and it was on planet ubuntu we;'d have known :p
[14:56] <ebel> :P Well I only upgraded the other day and was only playing around last night
[14:56] <czajkowski> ahhh
[14:56] <ebel> Ah there it is §72(1)(c) of S.I. № 299 of 2007.
[14:57] <ebel> " An employer, when providing display screen equipment for use by an employee at a workstation, shall … plan the activities of the employer's employees in such a way that daily work on display screen equipment is periodically interrupted by breaks or changes of activity which reduce workload at the display screen,"
[14:58] <ebel> may or may not apply to computers...
[14:58] <ebel> aaaaaanyway
[14:58] <ebel> There are a few other programmes for this, RSIBreak, workrave, etc. that i'll have to investigate
[14:59]  * slashtommy uses it for eye rests
[15:01] <Pendulum> sorry, screen froze
[15:01] <Pendulum> ebel: I wonder if as a short-term thing to give yourself a break using Dasher or onBoard for things that can be done slower/non-programming?
[15:01] <Pendulum> it would at least give your hands a break from the keyboard occasionally
[15:03] <ebel> Unlikely, cause it would increase mouse usage, would not give my eyes a break, and unless there is a timer/enforced popup would not be used as much
[15:04] <ebel> Would also not give my upper arms a break, and would not give me a chance to strech the rest of my arms/shoulders.
[15:04] <Pendulum> yeah, I wasn't thinking long term. I was thinking more while looking for something else that worked for the break
[15:04] <ebel> I'm going to try some of the other programmes, rsibreak (urk kde), workrave, drwright, etc.
[15:05] <czajkowski> ebel: but good to know prior to uds
[15:06] <czajkowski> i'm sure other people use similar programs
[15:06] <czajkowski> and would like to know whats available in unity
[15:08] <ebel> I'm my own worst enemy and cannot be relied on to remember to take a break. I need a machine to tell me to break, it must be on an independent clock. if I were to rely on myself to take regular breaks, I wouldn't do it enough, and would get sore.
[15:09] <Pendulum> interestingly, it's not something that's ever been asked on the a11y list as far as I know
[15:10] <Pendulum> I suspect most people with RSI who would use it don't think of it as "accessibility"
[15:10] <Pendulum> even though it really is an accessibility thing
[15:11] <ebel> perhaps
[15:11] <ebel> It had never occured to me that it would be an a11y thing either
[15:11] <ebel> then again, I don't know many people who use RSI software.
[15:11] <czajkowski> i wasn't sure hence i asked Pendulum
[15:11] <ebel> I remember chairing an ubuntu-ie irc meeting, and tdr112 was in the room and was suprised that i actully type that fast.
[15:12] <ebel> (i.e. not copy/paste)
[15:12] <ebel> I plan, at some point, to write some software to monitor how many keys per sec one types and warn the user to slow down. sort of a dynamic typing break. :)
[15:13] <Pendulum> I'm technically not supposed to type at all (or even use the mouse much), although not for normal RSI reasons. But to really make that work would involve moving completely off Linux so not happening any time soon
[15:15] <ebel> why would linux/not linux matter? Are you supposed to use some sort of special windows-only-software?
[15:15] <Pendulum> I'm supposed to use voice recognition
[15:16] <Pendulum> I have yet to find working voice recognition on Linux
[15:17] <Pendulum> (commercial or open source, it just doesn't seem to be available)
[15:18] <Pendulum> sometime around 2004 (before I was using Linux) there was a version of ViaVoice that worked on 1 or 2 distros, but ViaVoice no longer exists and it only worked for a year or so anyway
[15:19] <Pendulum> reports of Dragon on Wine pretty much come back with "not very usable"
[15:20] <ebel> erk. ☹
[15:22] <Pendulum> yeah
[15:22] <Pendulum> it's the big a11y black hole on Linux
[15:23] <Pendulum> from what I can tell the big issue is getting the algorithms correct and getting enough voice samples to test with
[15:26] <ebel> it annoys me to think of large companies like google, that are usually friends with openness, that clearly have both good algorithms & lots of voice samples, and yet don't seem to release these out.
[15:29] <Pendulum> google is not a friend to a11y, anyway
[23:51] <Guest3666> hi
[23:52] <Guest3666>  (d)