/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/10/28/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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wendaro/18:02
coolbhavihey wendar18:03
wendarhi18:03
ajmitchhello18:03
wendarpinging the others18:03
coolbhavihi ajmitch18:03
wendarokay, I've pinged all18:05
wendarlet's go ahead and start (3 is a quorum, in case we need to vote on any proposals)18:06
wendar#startmeeting18:06
meetingologyMeeting started Fri Oct 28 18:06:28 2011 UTC.  The chair is wendar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.18:06
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired18:06
wendar[TOPIC] Review action items18:06
wendar[LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Agenda18:06
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review action items
* ajmitch has not found any that are really ready to be voted on yet18:06
wendarWe notified all old applications of the Oneiric update, so we can mark that done.18:07
* coolbhavi is a bit new to this so getting into grips with it now18:08
wendarIIRC, the notice about old archive contents being copied over was taken care of, but stgraber was going to double-check on the longer-term implications18:08
wendarthat is, right now, our process is that we don't put anything into the archive of the development release, so it's always empty when the new archive for the next development release is created18:09
ajmitchwhich is why there's no precise directory on extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/18:10
coolbhavihmm18:11
ajmitchso we've got a lot of new submissions for oneiric now, not all of them are great18:12
wendaryes18:12
wendaryou've done some scanning this week18:13
ajmitchdo we want to run through the list here, or just talk about general problems with them?18:13
wendarif we have any ready to go (I think not?) we can review here18:13
wendarbut, general problems is probably more useful now18:14
wendarI noted a few of them in the reviewer instruction documents18:14
wendarsource tarballs that can't be built18:14
wendarand binary packages instead of source packages18:15
ajmitchclosest that I have ready to go are the askubuntu-lens again, blocked on a SRU which was uploaded to -proposed this week, and maybe harmonySEQ if the permission problems with it can be sorted (/dev/snd/seq)18:15
ajmitchthe common problem with java submissions is submitting a tarball full of .jar files18:15
ajmitchone of those which I saw is even in a PPA like that, where the source package has multiple .jar files & debian/install to copy them into place18:16
wendaryeah18:16
wendarthe short term solution is to individually guide developers to what we're looking for18:16
wendarbut, longer term, we need documentation on these pieces18:17
ajmitchthat problem is solvable, but they bundle a *lot* of upstream .jar files with differing licenses, not all of which are compatible18:17
wendarso, the developers can reach what we need independently18:17
coolbhaviI have a small input here18:17
ajmitcheducating developers on license compatibility is probably trickier than some technical documentation18:17
wendarcoolbhavi: yes, that's great, go ahead18:17
wendarcoolbhavi: new ideas are much needed and greatly appreciated :)18:18
coolbhaviyes how about a elaborate explanation of dfsg and free licenses on a wiki page such that devs understand in a simple language?18:19
wendarit'd be useful to have something like that on developer.ubuntu.com18:19
wendarwe have longer explanations in the Ubuntu and Debian documentation18:20
wendarbut, if we can find a way to teach it more simply, that'd be great18:20
ajmitchyou'd probably want to link to something like http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html18:20
coolbhaviyes might be too trivial but I guess covering main parts of licenses so that it gets in a simplified language to help devs18:21
wendarhttp://people.debian.org/~bap/dfsg-faq.html18:21
wendarhttp://opensource.org/docs/osd18:22
coolbhaviwould be hepful... something similar or a link on developer.ubuntu.com might help18:22
wendarI think a combination of a clear and short explanation, with links to "more reading" at the bottom might be good18:22
coolbhavi+1 here18:22
ajmitchthat reminds me of the point I added on the arb blueprint - looking over developer.ubuntu.com & making sure that documentation is clear, and that it matches the processes18:22
wendarcoolbhavi: you'll be here at UDS next week?18:23
coolbhaviyes m flying tomorrow18:23
coolbhavill be there :)18:23
wendarcoolbhavi: great, I can connect you with David Planella, this is something we could get done this cycle18:23
coolbhavisure wendar18:24
wendarajmitch: yes, an overall review of developer.ubuntu.com is needed18:24
wendarajmitch: I've found a few spots (like the description of the ARB) that need some updates18:24
wendarajmitch: not huge updates, but bits and pieces18:24
ajmitchyeah, things like app submission assuming that everything should have a price18:25
wendaryup18:25
ajmitchwe'll need to sort out, probably in a dicussion at UDSm how much hand-holding & work we're going to do18:26
wendarI'll add those two as action items, and as topics for the session next week18:26
wendaryes, that too18:26
coolbhaviOr why not make a check in the portal itself if its a free license or not ... If not the portal shouldnt allow someone to submit apps18:27
ajmitchcoolbhavi: I think it already does that18:27
wendarit checks whether they say it's a free license18:27
ajmitchbecause the reviewing process is used for both commercial/proprietary & ARB apps18:28
wendarthe ARB doesn't even look at it unless it's marked as a free software license18:28
wendarbut, developers don't always understand what's needed18:28
wendaror, may have license problems internally18:28
wendar(that they didn't realize they had)18:28
coolbhaviOh okay I still do  not have proper access to the portal so I havent checked18:28
ajmitchright, they can put a copy of the GPL in their tarball, but not submit source along with it18:28
ajmitchnor do I, I'm just going from the public parts that I can see :)18:29
wendarcoolbhavi: yes, we'll get access set up next week18:29
wendarthe new ARB queue is set up now18:29
coolbhavigreat18:29
wendarit has nothing in it now18:29
ajmitchwill they still be copied into LP bugs?18:29
wendarbut, we'll start moving things into it18:29
wendarajmitch: we should be able to stop copying to LP bugs now18:30
wendarajmitch: which will help a lot :)18:30
ajmitchok, then is there a way that I could get a list of the queue withouth screenscraping developer.ubuntu.com? :)18:30
wendarbut, I haven't run an app all the way through the new process yet18:30
wendarajmitch: a list of the queue?18:31
* ajmitch is using lplib at the moment to pull the list of bugs & make sure that there are notes locally or at least an entry about them on my local system18:31
ajmitchjust something I hacked up very quickly to make sure that I can keep on top of them18:31
coolbhaviajmitch, something like sponsors queue?18:31
wendarwhat MyApps has now is a first approximation of our process18:31
wendarso, we'll need to try it out, and let the developers know if/where we need changes18:32
ajmitchwendar: right, I've subscribed to the developerportal bugs, I'll file them there18:32
wendarajmitch: ah, cool, sounds like a useful tool18:32
ajmitchjust looking at the list, there are a couple there that were up for review on the debian-mentors list, but didn't get anywhere18:33
wendarajmitch: so, I'm sitting in a session right now on how we get good reports on how the queues are doing, and keep on top of them18:33
ajmitchwendar: ok :)18:33
coolbhavi:)18:33
wendarajmitch: so, it's very llikely we can get what you need from that tool built into the web interface18:34
ajmitchthat would be nice18:34
wendarajmitch: yeah, I want to make sure we don't fall back into REVU, where submissions sit for months or years without progress :(18:35
wendarit's a real risk, we're already falling behind the rate of submission :(18:35
ajmitchwendar: the one I'm looking at, openssn, even has packaging in the debian pkg-games repository which is closer to what we need than what was submitted to the ARB18:36
wendarinteresting18:36
ajmitchI wonder if we should try & work with some of these to get them into debian18:36
wendarso, maybe the best recommendation is to help him get it into debian?18:36
wendaraye18:36
wendarI think that's quite valuable18:36
wendarhelp them find contacts or sponsors in Debian18:37
ajmitchgrub-customizer fails the 'no system apps' part of the checklist, was also on REVU & on mentors.debian.net18:37
wendaralso, I'm a DM and lfaraone is a DD18:37
* ajmitch is a DD, not sure about the others18:37
wendarajmitch: yeah, it modifies a pretty fundamental part of the system18:38
wendarwe can ask cjwatson about it, and see if it's likely to have any chance in Debian18:38
ajmitchapart from that, it'd be nice to get in, get it synced to precise & then into -backports18:38
wendaryeah, if the code is good, I can see it being a valuable tool18:39
wendarit needs a grub-knowledgable sponsor18:39
ajmitchwe also had listed somewherewe had listed somewhere a general guideline for size of applications, is that still around?18:39
wendarit's not a hard rule18:39
ajmitchsorry if I'm a bit all over the place this morning :)18:40
wendarbut ~10,000 lines18:40
wendarajmitch: np, that's what the IRC sessions are for, gathering "other business"18:40
ajmitchrstudio will need to go into the distro then, sloccount said it was about 100k18:40
ajmitchit's a mix of C++ & java, currently has no packaging18:41
wendarah, that would be too bad, it's one of the best apps we've gotten :(18:41
ajmitchyeah18:41
ajmitchI was just surprised at the size of it18:41
wendarif it's clean code, and non risky, it could still be fine18:41
wendar(like, it's not modifying core systems, making network connections, etc)18:42
ajmitchit could be, but someone would need to step up & do the packaging - the java part is for a GWT web frontend18:42
wendaryeah, I'm surprized18:42
wendariamfuzz said he'd be willing to do the packaging for it18:43
ajmitchgreat18:43
ajmitchthough I still feel that something of that size & quality may be a better fit for the distro, rather than something to copy over every 6 months :)18:44
wendaryeah, it seems like the kind of thing we should mentor to move up into Debian18:45
wendarI think the developer would be open to that18:45
wendarbut, getting it into extras for Oneiric is a good easy introduction18:45
ajmitchrstudio was the one where the submitter asked about building against newer versions of boost & qt - both of which aren't available yet in the distro18:45
wendarah, I hadn't read the follow-up on that one18:46
wendarso, the versions in Oneiric weren't sufficient?18:46
wendar(I asked, didn't see the answer yet)18:46
ajmitchthey're sufficiant for now18:46
ajmitchhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-app-review-board/+bug/881515/comments/418:47
wendarlooking at his README, it looked like the versions in Oneiric were what he needed18:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 881515 in Ubuntu Application Review Board "Application Review Request: rstudio-v0.94" [Undecided,New]18:47
wendarah, got it18:47
wendarso, the answer to that is "no, it's not possible"18:47
ajmitchI would not want to ever allow apps to bundle newer versions of libraries like that18:47
wendarso, we'd have to hold off updating in the distribution until the library is updated18:48
wendarajmitch: want me to take that one?18:48
ajmitchsure18:48
wendarwill do18:50
ajmitchit's going to be hard to keep track of who's looking at what if we split them up between us18:50
wendarthe shepherd idea we used before helped with that18:50
wendarbut, it also meant some submissions got no attention18:50
wendarif the shepherd ran out of time18:50
wendarsomething to talk about next week18:50
wendar(and, I'm not sure how that'll work out in the new interface)18:51
wendarI had a thought this week18:51
ajmitchdepending on when the uds session is, I may not be able to attend remotely18:51
wendardo you know how the patch pilot's program works?18:51
ajmitcha roster of people who look at the sponsoring queue & pick items off it18:52
wendarinstead of assigning responsibility by submission, we do it by time18:52
wendaryeah18:52
wendara person agrees to a particular 4-hour period once a month18:52
wendarand, in that time they're available to answer questions18:52
ajmitchwe'd probably want to track when something was last touched18:52
wendarand work through as much of the queue as possible18:52
wendaryup, we'd have to make sure there was available info on what had been done18:53
wendarso, the next pilot could pick it up18:53
ajmitchwith LP we can set bugs to incomplete if we're waiting for info, and it lists the last changed on the overview page18:53
coolbhaviwhy dont have a wiki page with all the TODO's and updates and ownerships to be updated every week maybe and the responsibility of updation is owned up by someone so we can have a spoc maintainability of tracker?18:53
wendarajmitch: the new system has that too18:53
ajmitchwendar: great, was about to ask that18:53
wendarit gets hidden from the list needing review18:53
wendaruntil the developer responds18:54
wendarcoolbhavi: that's a good idea, especially the interface we get isn't quite good enough to start with18:54
ajmitchcoolbhavi: it may work, just depends on how awkward it is to keep in sync with new submissions18:54
ajmitchwe've obviously seen quite a few new submissions since the new site went up18:55
wendarcoolbhavi: it can be a pain to manually update, so hopefully we can automate that quickly18:55
wendarideally, it'd be a report page in the interface, with no manual maintenance work18:55
ajmitchthe simple tool that I hacked up is dead simple it just reads the statuses & bug links out of a .yaml file :)18:55
wendarajmitch: cool18:56
ajmitchyaml just because it's close to freeform text18:56
coolbhaviyes thats another part as we get more active, submissions will increase I guess. Agreed.18:56
wendarI haven't been updating statuses18:56
wendar(I have that on our list to talk about next week too, although we might not need it if we're switching away from LP)18:56
ajmitchI've mostly just been keepign my own statuses, such as ones I haven't looked at, those that need packaging done, etc18:56
wendarhttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-app-review-board18:56
wendarajmitch: it'd be nice to get that somewhere we share it18:57
wendarajmitch: is it crontab-able?18:57
ajmitchwendar: not particularly, I'll need to spend more than 30 minutes on it18:57
wendarI do feel the pain, I totally missed a response from one of the developers on a package I was shepherding :(18:58
ajmitchall I wanted initially was for something to try & make sure I wrote notes about every submission18:59
ajmitchI can work on it some more if you think it'll be useful18:59
wendarajmitch makes sense18:59
wendarit'd be cool to take a look at it18:59
wendarI don't know, if we can get the features in the web interface quickly, I don't want to suck up your time19:00
wendarI guess we'll see19:00
ajmitchI'll probably still use something like it for my private notes :)19:00
wendaryup, makes sense19:00
wendarif you do keep working on it, share what's useful19:00
ajmitchsome of them aren't really publishable once I got to the 3rd or 4th submission with .jar files & license violations19:00
wendarheh :)19:01
wendarcurse silently, teach kindly :)19:01
ajmitchright :)19:01
coolbhavialright guys I am sorry that I have to leave in the middle as its way past midnight n m very sleepy now ... See you at the UDS next week :)19:01
ajmitchcoolbhavi: thanks for stopping in, see you round :)19:01
wendarcoolbhavi: we're pretty much ready to wrap up19:02
ajmitchOK, I guess we've got some points that can be discussed at UDS anyway19:02
wendartake a look at the blueprint and let me know if you want to add anything19:02
wendarone final thing, chair for next meeting19:02
wendarajmitch: do you want to take the next rotation?19:02
ajmitchsure19:02
wendarcool19:03
coolbhavi:)19:03
wendarI'll take the minutes and distribute them19:03
ajmitchthanks19:03
wendarand update the agenda for next time19:03
wendarthanks all!19:03
coolbhavithanks so much19:03
coolbhavisee you at UDS19:03
coolbhavi:)19:03
wendarsee you there :)19:03
wendar#endmeeting19:03
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Fri Oct 28 19:03:59 2011 UTC.19:04
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-28-18.06.moin.txt19:04

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