=== Hornet is now known as EgbertPopplewick [07:07] Morning [07:12] hiya [07:30] morning [08:15] hi [08:20] Morning all [08:21] The future for datacentres and home servers? http://www.calxeda.com/ [08:31] Anyone recommend any open source Assett management software and also helpdesk software, preferably something that integrates together [08:32] I like OSTicket, but no asset stuff built in [08:33] Looks good stuff TheOpenSourcerer [08:33] I'd certainly want to use something that low power at home :) [08:33] ooh, ARM servers :) [08:34] and funnily enough canonical on the software partner page :) [08:38] Morning all [08:46] Morning all! :) [08:58] morning all [09:01] Morning peeps [09:01] :) [09:12] had to roll back to CM7.0.3 from 7.1.0 :( [09:13] oooooooooooooo [09:13] That sucks, why so? [09:14] had low space issues that i couldn't resolve, and some stuff wasn't working e.g. google chat [09:14] for no perceivable gain [09:14] need to make the decision quickly if you are gonna roll back to a previous backup [09:15] if i had have persevered, i probably could have moved the dalvik cache somewhere else [09:24] the NAS unit i just set up to replace the broken one is ARM [09:24] the old one was PPC [09:24] so ARM servers are already in the home [09:24] * MooDoo is getting a new nas [09:25] what's so good about ARM servers in the datacentre anyway? [09:25] the only reason i can think to use them is because your servers are not CPU bound, and so running x86 is a waste of electricity [09:25] power consumption perhaps? :) [09:26] if you are akamai it probably makes sense [09:28] ali1234: core density as well, if you want that [09:29] ali1234: what kind of nas did you get? [09:30] iomega ix2-200 [09:30] weird, looks like some sort of APC unit [09:31] the firmware is terrible [09:31] ack, meeting, brb [09:31] ali1234: so it runs debian? [09:32] it runs a broken version of debian [09:32] ali1234: power consumption and heat production and less expensive air con [09:32] virtualisation offers similar benefits too of course [09:33] that's what i mean. ARM seems good if you have low CPU/high IO requirements [09:34] lots of servers in the datacentre are idling [09:34] in my experience [09:43] Gooooood mooooorning all! :D [09:44] morning JamesTait [09:44] morning [09:45] How are we all this morning? [09:48] ready for the weekend but not bad, what about yourself [09:48] when making a OO impress doc and wanting to draw some block diagrams, is it best/easier to draw them in OOimpress, or another app and import them? [09:49] All fired up ready to kick some refactoring butt. :) [09:50] oimon: depends on complexity, but you can do a lot with impress, also the draw application in the suite [09:50] And sounding a little like a cross between beuno and jonobacon. :-P [09:50] which is basically the same, but without the slideshow bit (might have better layer support too) [09:50] AlanBell: cool, i was wondering if they were the same [09:50] gonna try impress [10:04] Nov 2 09:52:51 enzo kernel: [ 2066.641830] at-spi-registry[5574]: segfault at 18 ip 00007f9f3e9da5f1 sp 00007fffa9565260 error 4 in libgconf-2.so.4.1.5[7f9f3e9c3000+2d000] [10:05] I get logged out as soon as I attempt to login [10:05] seeing that message above in the kern.log with oneric [10:12] any ideas? [10:22] god morning [10:23] it's good as well :D [10:23] mornin === AlanChicken is now known as AlanBell [10:33] I missed all of you so much! [10:33] morning [10:35] That was somewhat of a netsplit [10:36] * DJones blames popey for being in the US and probably asleep at this time & not adminstering the whole of the internet properly [10:37] DJones: sounds reasonable [10:37] Think I just killed the bookmark manager in Chromium \o/ [10:44] DJones: sshhh! He has a daemon process in his brain that works even when he's asleep monitoring this channel ;) [10:45] can someone please check why my uncloaked host appears to be banned from here? it's 93-32-53-73.ip32.fastwebnet.it [10:48] I do like netsplits [10:49] LjL: that might be a request for #freenode [10:49] LjL: Give me a minute [10:49] bigcalm: erm, not really [10:49] I can only guess that it was from a time when you had connection problems & were bouncing in & out of the channel [10:49] freenode doesn't deal with channel bans [10:49] Oh, from this channel, sorry :) [10:50] DJones: i was thinking it might be that, thanks [10:50] Just got to remember the command to remove it now :) [10:50] DJones: you can't remove it now, because we've got no chanserv to op you :P [10:50] Bugger [10:50] well it doesn't matter very much, i'm usually cloaked [10:51] I'll remove it when I can anyway [10:51] thanks [10:52] Even freenode.net is down [10:52] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, one of our sponsors are experiencing some routing issues -- as a result we are missing a few servers, have a messed up rotation, no services and no web presence. Hopefully we'll return to some normality soon. Thank you for your patience and have a good day (or night, if you're Australian!) [10:52] Ah [10:56] ChanServ is back [11:03] LjL: Do you want to check thats working now [11:03] Back in a bit, just got head to a meeting for a minutes [11:17] i think that means djones has gone for a poo [11:18] * DJones kicks oimon [11:18] irc'ing on the toilet? [11:18] Nah, ended up a 30 second web demo meeting [11:20] Is packages.ubuntu.com down? Can't decide if its just my web connection causing problems or the site itself [11:20] http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/packages.ubuntu.com [11:21] I suspect it must be my web connection because downforeveryoneorjustme.com seems down :) [11:24] woops [11:30] \o/ somebody has put a new hamster in the hamster wheel powering the internet [11:31] Where you getting an +++OUT OF CHEESE ERROR+++ ? [11:31] * bigcalm forgets the exact quote :S [11:34] We've seen some strange transient routing issues over the last few days [11:36] * awilkins is wondering if he should try Unity2d for a while [11:36] bigcalm: [11:36] Yep, that was the warning [11:36] DJones: yes? [11:36] If I didn't know this machine was perfectly stable in Windows, I'd suspect the hardware was flaking out [11:37] Ah [11:40] Why when you change to a new server, do you always forget the little things you've installed "just at the time", why do I never write them all down [11:40] DJones, Yeah, I know [11:40] DJones, It would be nice to have a tool that logs all that stuff and presents a structured list of what you did, so you could separate out the bits that you want everywhere and apply it to all new machines [11:41] yeah, would be good [11:41] A project for the 2 of you ;) [11:42] Wouldn't mind, its only a little piddly home server, serves a tiny static website, runs irssi, & keeps a stack of media files for distributing round the house [11:43] How about... a terminal with an inbuilt wiki pane to the right... select the command text, type a documentation string, it logs that [11:43] Would help eliminate all the piddly little commands you run like cd, ls [11:44] Or annotate your bash history [11:45] That wouldn't log what you did in config files though [11:45] bigcalm, No... so how do we link etckeeper or similar into this [11:45] Link to the commit IDs in your log? [11:46] Erm, could do :) [11:46] I didn't know about etckeeper [11:46] !etckeeper [11:46] !info etckeeper [11:46] etckeeper (source: etckeeper): store /etc in git, mercurial, bzr or darcs. In component main, is optional. Version 0.52ubuntu1 (natty), package size 26 kB, installed size 384 kB [11:47] AlanBell to the rescue! [11:47] Most interesting [11:48] So, if etckeeper hooks apt, presumably you could also get it to log installed packages [11:49] (or maybe it does alreadY) [11:50] package changes are logged into /var/log/dpkg.log.. not sure how helpful that is for you though [11:52] popey: What's your job? Just saw your tweets. [11:52] pkgsync. [11:52] isn't it engineering manager? [11:58] Chief cake taster [12:01] :) [12:05] [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 2 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/02/uds-p-day-2/ [12:07] Afternoon [12:09] hiya daubers [12:10] anyone dipping into interesting sessions from UDS today? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/today [12:10] AlanBell: WOuld do if I had some more time. Intending to try and read some of the summaries over the weekend [12:15] hola davmor2 how's UDS? [12:16] MooDoo: I don't know it's the other side of the building ;) [12:16] MooDoo: I'm surprised that czajkowski hasn't sent him to the ER [12:16] davmor2: you're not partaking? Or ust got up? [12:16] bigcalm: give her chance :) [12:17] bigcalm: No czajkowski won't kill me apparently as I'm organising the workspace thing :D [12:17] MooDoo: no I'm on a team sprint [12:17] davmor2: ah! [12:17] * mattt is finally getting around to listening to the keynote [12:17] davmor2: good, my words didn't go unheeded [12:18] huge openstack focus, wow [12:19] Hummph, I've switched to Unity2d [12:20] I shall see if this improves stability - my machine keeps having nasty crashes that coincidentally coincide with pretty graphics moments like window fades, etc [12:22] :D [12:22] I'm a happy bunny [12:22] andylockran: any particular reason? [12:22] MooDoo: just enjoying xubuntu+dock [12:22] andylockran, Been given a carrot? [12:22] selinuxium: I'd quite like a carrot [12:23] andylockran: which dock? [12:24] docky [12:24] What's the difference from having a panel down there? [12:24] it also holds minimized apps [12:25] I see [12:25] I didn't install it as I thought it would need gnome to work correctly [12:25] nope - it works really well - though need to enable compositing [12:25] :| [12:26] what's that face for? [12:26] * selinuxium posts andylockran a carrot... CoIP hasn't been invented yet... [12:26] This system isn't the greatest under Linux for fancy graphics. Which is a shame [12:27] CoIP [12:27] Carrot over Internet Protocol [12:28] Will have to make do with cookies. It does seem a short leap from there to cake, and thus carrot cake... but never mind [12:28] Great how the mind works ;) [12:32] andylockran: do you find it difficult to grab the edge of a window for resizing? [12:33] It feels like a pixel hunt to me [12:34] Yeah, it's a single pixel area... the alt-F8 key shortcut is a nice idea but it rather removes your hand from the mouse, which is daft when you want to resize a window [12:35] Most interesting, ta [12:35] Really not optimal though [12:35] bigcalm: Take a look at bug 160311 :-) [12:35] Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311 [12:35] No, my hand reach is not enough to hit alt-f8 with my left hand, so It's a 2-hand key combo [12:35] So I have to leave the mouse to do it [12:36] An old and bloody annoying bug. [12:37] awilkins: use the right hand alt? [12:37] TheOpenSourcerer: poo :( [12:38] bigcalm, AltGr doesn't work [12:38] So I see [12:53] Why do I struggle to decide what to have for lunch? [12:53] It really shouldn't be this stressful [12:53] bigcalm: I've been told to find myself a new work computer [12:53] thats more stressful [12:54] But you can't eat a computer [12:54] Ham Sandwich with some of my amazing Chilli Chutney :-D [12:54] 50 Chillies and 25 cloves of Garlic [12:56] How long did it take you to learn to like having your mouth on fire? [12:56] TheOpenSourcerer: So you're trying to get some time to yourself then.... [12:56] bigcalm: About 28 years I guess. [12:57] daubers: :-D [12:57] It also goes very well with cheese too. [12:57] Next you'll tell us that you like chilli chocolate [12:58] I say "my" Chilli Chutney. I did make it but it was this recipe: http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/2011/10/27/how-to-make-my-favourite-green-chilli-chutney/ [12:58] Great website BTW [12:58] bigcalm: I do, and so does my 7 yr old son. [12:59] My future mother-in-law likes it as well. But I think mothers-in-law are meant to be odd ;) [13:02] anyone used ganglia? [13:03] looks pretty good [13:03] $morning all [13:03] Afternoon part-timer [13:04] hey popey! Guess what I got yesterday ;-) [13:04] popey: Does every morning start with a hangover, or is that just Aq? [13:04] haha [13:04] i have no hangover [13:04] which is surprising [13:05] TheOpenSourcerer: hp touchpad? [13:05] 32G [13:05] ooo nice [13:05] just one? [13:05] Unfortunately yes. [13:05] ☹ [13:05] got ubuntu on it yet? [13:05] heh [13:05] I haven't even unboxed it yet. [13:06] TheOpenSourcerer: Put CM on it [13:09] * popey is in an interesting session about linaro set top boxes [13:09] Central heating just came on. Woot \o/ [13:10] heh [13:14] What can we expect the next gen. of set top boxes then? [13:14] Will TiVo be a thing of the past? [13:18] does anyone here use juju? [13:18] i wonder how many cheapo STB's over the next year or so will turn out to be a raspberry pi hidden in a bigger case [13:18] oimon: not the ones that are linaro based [14:06] how can I set the window auto-raise delay for focus-follows-mouse in 11.10 gnome fallback? (or whatever the non-unity, non-gnome-shell UI is called) [14:16] davmor2: what was that macro recorder thing you mentioned? [14:17] popey: xpresser ? [14:17] ta [14:20] I think more tea is needed [14:27] Is there any way of opening applications on particular workspaces? I open the same applications and put them in the same workspaces every morning... would be nice to automate... [14:27] To add to the dilemma I have a dual screen set-up [14:29] selinuxium: Me too :-) If you find out how to do that I'd love to know. [14:30] Thunderbird on screen 1, FFox and Hotot on 2, OpenERP Client on 3 and 4 mostly eclipse and/or other stuff. [14:30] TheOpenSourcerer, :) Will do... How are you doing anyway? You near Liverpool Street any time soon? [14:31] Good thanks selinuxium but not got any "in town" meeting booked for the forseeable right now. [14:31] urgh, I dislike it when customers say "We know you told us not to do this but....." [14:31] ha [14:32] The answer is generally "Sorry, you're on your own, or you can pay for a callout at £1000+VAT per day (min 1 day) to fix it" [14:40] TheOpenSourcerer, Next time you are in town give me a bell for beer! :) Also... http://www.foosel.org/linux/devilspie is looking promising... [14:41] selinuxium: if you're running Compiz you can teach it rules for specific windows... based on their titles I think [14:41] window placement is a long-running pile of &"$£* in Linux/X [14:42] if you file a bug about it, everyone goes "It's not our fault, it's their fault!" and points at someone else [14:42] it's very tedious [14:43] currently it's actually down to application developers to save and request restoration of window position, which seems a bit silly. [14:43] hi denny, yeah I am using Compiz but i need to open Chromium-browser in 2 workspaces, one in incognito so I can have 2 google accounts open... [14:43] funtiems :) [14:44] denny, TheOpenSourcerer, there appears to be a GUI - gDevilspie [14:45] I used devils pie before, but the built-in stuff in compiz seemed to be equivalent or better when I was last looking [14:45] I don't even know what WM I'm using any more [14:46] 11.10 has done odd things to my machine :) [14:46] well, trying to run 11.10 but without Unity has done odd things [14:46] Gnome Shell won't even load on my three-screen setup [14:46] although it looked pretty rubbish before it crashed anyway [14:46] so I'm running the fallback thing [14:47] which is a bit rubbish, but at least I can get work done without the UI getting in my way all the time [14:47] Gnome shell seems to be running well on my system on 11.10 [14:47] do you have three monitors running off of two graphics cards? [14:47] no [14:47] I find this causes me a number of issues :) [14:48] in 11.10's defence, this is the first installation of Linux ever to find all three monitors and enable them using only GUI tools [14:48] shame about Unity really [14:48] and as I say, Gnome Shell didn't like the three monitors, which is interesting given that fallback manages okay and that's still gnome3 if I understand correctly? [14:49] unity is a shell for gnome3 [14:49] oh aye? [14:49] gnome-shell is another shell for gnome 3 [14:49] right [14:49] I didn't much like the look of either, but Unity did at least run :) [14:50] and fallback uses the two panel shell for gnome 3 [14:50] it just took ages to switch between windows and stuff like that [14:50] (in terms of my identifying the window I wanted and selecting it, rather than in terms of rendering speed etc) [14:50] alt-tab is not very deterministic under unity, I turned that off and use one of the normal switchers [14:51] the 'I must be on the left of the screen' thing was a bit of a nuisance on a triple-head setup too... the left of the left screen is a long way away :) [14:51] I tried Cairo Dock but that was quite faffy too [14:52] I'm fairly sure having a task bar is actually quicker for switching between windows, rather than just being what I'm used to [14:52] always hard to assess your own biases though [14:52] the fact that I like focus-follows-mouse doesn't really work well with the detached menu bar thingy either [14:53] i r special snowflake edge case, I guess [14:53] focus-follows-mouse has been mentioned in some of the design sessions at UDS [14:53] if you're coming from Windows 7, Unity is probably quite nice [14:53] it looks quite similar, to my uneducated eye [14:54] if you're coming from windows 7 it's aweful, then again if you're linux then windows then linux, it all becomes a blur lol [14:54] heh [14:56] http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19802/design-p-design-and-community/ would be a good session to bring up comments about unity and what you want it to be in 12.04 [14:56] at 4PM today [14:57] live audio here -> http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/bonaire2.ogg.m3u [14:57] talk to the room in the #ubuntu-uds-bonaire2 IRC channel [14:58] the IRC channel is on a big projector at the front of the room, all rooms have dual projectors, one for IRC, one with a dangling VGA connector for laptops [14:58] so do go in there and politely say you would like multi-monitor improvements and alt-tab to be unbroken [15:03] hi, anyone in here able to tell me why firefox is not associated to application when i download files [15:04] for example when i download a word document it trys to use archive manager instead of open office and open office is not available in the list [15:26] oly: It's a known bug. I think a fix has been released...... [15:26] bug 873470 [15:26] Launchpad bug 873470 in desktop-file-utils (Ubuntu Oneiric) "File-roller is associated with .docx,.xlsx,.pptx files instead of LibreOffice" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873470 [15:26] it might be filtering through the system [15:26] Everything is associated with the Archive Manager upon installing 11.10 [15:27] A bit silly really :) [15:29] aha cheers for that info daubers [16:02] pentadactyl > vimperator? discuss. === chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson [16:08] * denny blinks [16:08] Evolution won't let me create any IMAP folders today [16:08] that's helpful [16:09] Evolution has never been helpful. Why does it still exist? [16:10] I find it more usable than Thunderbird, on average [16:10] they all have their quirks though [16:10] denny: have you tried thunderbird with muttator? [16:11] nope? [16:11] http://vimperator.org/muttator [16:12] o.O [16:12] vim is going the way of emacs [16:13] http://dactyl.sourceforge.net/teledactyl [16:13] (no (its (not))) [16:14] funkyHat: same thing with a different name? [16:14] bigcalm: that's just an extension for thunderbird that gives it vi-like keybindings, not actually part of vim [16:14] bigcalm: more up to date fork I believe [16:14] I know, but everything is starting to look like vim ;) [16:14] aloha [16:14] Ah yes, just read that [16:14] Hi czajkowski :) [16:14] why anyone would want anything to behave like vim I have no idea [16:14] or like any CLI application for that matter, they're almost all completely insane [16:15] vi has always struck me as particularly special though... a text editor that, when you load it, won't let you edit the text (until you change mode) [16:15] denny: vim has a bit of a steep learning curve but then the amount of keypresses required to do stuff just gets less and less [16:15] primary purpose fail :) [16:16] Except experienced vim users probably spend less time in insert mode than other modes [16:18] Starting in insert modewould annoy me, at any rate ;) [16:20] There are 2 things that need to be made obvious when using an editor: 1) how to edit. 2) how to exit [16:23] That depends on whether you're trying to make a tet editor that's easy to use or a text editor that's fast to use [16:23] s/tet/text/ [16:23] vim isn't fast to use [16:24] It's quite often set as the default editor on systems. I had no idea what I was doing when I 1st tried to edit a cronjob [16:24] most of the claimed "fast" things you can do with it rely on you having memorized the entire text you are editing [16:24] ali1234: I disagree [16:25] yeah, pico would be a friendlier default [16:25] with the menu across the bottom :) [16:25] But I'm also not going to suggest that it should be the default editor ⢁) [16:25] Or nano. I think nano is the default in ubuntu [16:25] nano provided by debian and ubuntu for intuitive editting [16:27] nano is pretty cool as long as you open it with -c [16:27] I open with -w [16:27] Otherwise it kills configs [16:28] As with everything, you need to know what you're doing before you start [16:28] * funkyHat sshes into a box that has nano on it to check what those options do [16:30] What? It actually edits lines just bcause they are too long without -w? [16:30] :-o [16:30] helpful. [16:31] I have not experienced that issue before. I like -c cause it shows your cursor position a.k.a line number [16:33] hey guys. i'm on a new work machine, ubuntu 11.10, tomboy fails to finish initial sync [16:33] i get about 38 of my 200 notes downloaded, then it stops [16:34] just says failed to sync, see below for details, that gives me the 38 notes with "Added" indicated beside each one, but that's it. [16:34] no errors apparent in that list [16:34] NET||abuse: which synchronisation method are you using? [16:56] i've seen the same episode of scrubs twice today on sky [16:56] perhaps its a good thing i've never had sky before [16:57] I watch everything online nowadays [17:23] upgrading a machine to 11.10 and see a message saying "the support in ubuntu 11.10 for your intel graphics hardware is limited and you may encounter problems after the upgrade" — will this computer still work in the Ubuntu 2D mode, or does it need a better graphics card before i upgrade? (are there any docs on what doesn't work?) [17:28] aaronr: http://friendly.ubuntu.com/ [17:34] jacobw: oops, an hour later..... [17:34] jacobw: thanks, but i'm interested in what specifically won't work. if it will work in unity 2d mode, then i don't need to upgrade the graphics card. if not, i will. [17:35] jacobw: yeh, using Tomboy Web sync, through Ubuntu One [17:36] aaronr: can you try it with the live image? [17:38] NET||abuse: how many notes can you see in the web interfac? [17:39] jacobw: yeah, i can give it a shot. [17:40] i'd still like to understand what's changed in 11.10 and find out more about what will break, though. i'm having trouble finding relevant docs explaining this message. [17:40] do you know which driver your using? [17:43] http://i.imgur.com/CGB8v.png is genius. [17:45] jacobw: according to Xorg.log it's the intel driver for an intel 865g gpu [17:54] gord: that got through the app review process! [18:03] aaronr: i don't think there's any regressions, looking at launchpad bugs and answers doesn't uncover any new issues in oneiric [18:03] gord: haha [18:05] Evening all [18:06] Gnome3 is much smoother than unity so far [18:17] Gnome3 has more boring bugs than unity, though [18:18] Not for me yet, not crashed once yet [18:18] Yet unity has crashed multiple times [18:18] thanks jacobw [18:18] nah, not crashes, just stupid design decisions [18:18] I've not had either crash much at all [18:18] Oh unity has been once or twice a night [18:18] Don't like the no option of minimise though [18:19] yeah, that's the sort of design decisions that need fixing [18:20] that's the thing, gnome3 is broken out of the box in a usability sense, so you isntall these extensions and it works [18:20] unity just does random things every so often to keep me on my toes [18:46] whois tomk tomk [18:46] busted [18:56] haha [18:56] boosted [18:57] Mmm, could nobble a Boost === ali12341 is now known as ali1234 [19:08] i'm considering a system76 lemur ultra, can anyone testify as to their quality? [19:42] evening friends === arsen is now known as Guest95200 [20:07] Evening [20:09] howzit guys [20:17] I've just done a clean install of 11.10 with an nvidia card, activated the nvidia drivers but I have no shadows on the desktop - why would that be? [20:21] feisar: have you restarted the X server since activating the drivers? you can log out and back in again to do so [20:30] jacobw: yeah I have restarted and still no go, thanks [20:31] 895 [21:05] [Jonathan Riddell] Precise Ubuntu Developer Summit - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4496 [21:09] i just watched the a-team reboot movie [21:09] it's terrible [21:09] don't watch it [21:10] A wish you'd said that about 6 months ago [21:10]