[07:07] <daubers> Morning
[07:12] <dwatkins> hiya
[07:30] <AlanBell> morning
[08:15] <tonytiger> hi
[08:20] <DJones> Morning all
[08:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> The future for datacentres and home servers? http://www.calxeda.com/
[08:31] <diplo> Anyone recommend any open source Assett management software and also helpdesk software, preferably something that integrates together
[08:32] <diplo> I like OSTicket, but no asset stuff built in
[08:33] <diplo> Looks good stuff TheOpenSourcerer
[08:33] <diplo> I'd certainly want to use something that low power at home :)
[08:33] <AlanBell> ooh, ARM servers :)
[08:34] <AlanBell> and funnily enough canonical on the software partner page :)
[08:38] <smittix> Morning all
[08:46] <selinuxium> Morning all!  :)
[08:58] <MooDoo> morning all
[09:01] <bigcalm> Morning peeps
[09:01] <MooDoo> :)
[09:12] <oimon> had to roll back to CM7.0.3 from 7.1.0 :(
[09:13] <MooDoo> oooooooooooooo
[09:13] <bigcalm> That sucks, why so?
[09:14] <oimon> had low space issues that i couldn't resolve, and some stuff wasn't working e.g. google chat
[09:14] <oimon> for no perceivable gain
[09:14] <oimon> need to make the decision quickly if you are gonna roll back to a previous backup
[09:15] <oimon> if i had have persevered, i probably could have moved the dalvik cache somewhere else
[09:24] <ali1234> the NAS unit i just set up to replace the broken one is ARM
[09:24] <ali1234> the old one was PPC
[09:24] <ali1234> so ARM servers are already in the home
[09:24]  * MooDoo is getting a new nas
[09:25] <ali1234> what's so good about ARM servers in the datacentre anyway?
[09:25] <ali1234> the only reason i can think to use them is because your servers are not CPU bound, and so running x86 is a waste of electricity
[09:25] <mattt> power consumption perhaps?  :)
[09:26] <ali1234> if you are akamai it probably makes sense
[09:28] <AlanBell> ali1234: core density as well, if you want that
[09:29] <mattt> ali1234: what kind of nas did you get?
[09:30] <ali1234> iomega ix2-200
[09:30] <mattt> weird, looks like some sort of APC unit
[09:31] <ali1234> the firmware is terrible
[09:31] <mattt> ack, meeting, brb
[09:31] <AlanBell> ali1234: so it runs debian?
[09:32] <ali1234> it runs a broken version of debian
[09:32] <oimon> ali1234: power consumption and heat production and less expensive air con
[09:32] <oimon> virtualisation offers similar benefits too of course
[09:33] <ali1234> that's what i mean. ARM seems good if you have low CPU/high IO requirements
[09:34] <oimon> lots of servers in the datacentre are idling
[09:34] <oimon> in my experience
[09:43] <JamesTait> Gooooood mooooorning all! :D
[09:44] <MooDoo> morning JamesTait
[09:44] <Pernig> morning
[09:45] <JamesTait> How are we all this morning?
[09:48] <MooDoo> ready for the weekend but not bad, what about yourself
[09:48] <oimon> when making a OO impress doc and wanting to draw some block diagrams, is it best/easier to draw them in OOimpress, or another app and import them?
[09:49] <JamesTait> All fired up ready to kick some refactoring butt. :)
[09:50] <AlanBell> oimon: depends on complexity, but you can do a lot with impress, also the draw application in the suite
[09:50] <JamesTait> And sounding a little like a cross between beuno and jonobacon. :-P
[09:50] <AlanBell> which is basically the same, but without the slideshow bit (might have better layer support too)
[09:50] <oimon> AlanBell: cool, i was wondering if they were the same
[09:50] <oimon> gonna try impress
[10:04] <andylockran> Nov  2 09:52:51 enzo kernel: [ 2066.641830] at-spi-registry[5574]: segfault at 18 ip 00007f9f3e9da5f1 sp 00007fffa9565260 error 4 in libgconf-2.so.4.1.5[7f9f3e9c3000+2d000]
[10:05] <andylockran> I get logged out as soon as I attempt to login
[10:05] <andylockran> seeing that message above in the kern.log with oneric
[10:12] <andylockran> any ideas?
[10:22] <hoover> god morning
[10:23] <MooDoo> it's good as well :D
[10:23] <iclebyte> mornin
[10:33] <bigcalm> I missed all of you so much!
[10:33] <andylockran> morning
[10:35] <DJones> That was somewhat of a netsplit
[10:36]  * DJones blames popey for being in the US and probably asleep at this time & not adminstering the whole of the internet properly
[10:37] <bigcalm> DJones: sounds reasonable
[10:37] <bigcalm> Think I just killed the bookmark manager in Chromium \o/
[10:44] <danfish> DJones: sshhh! He has a daemon process in his brain that works even when he's asleep monitoring this channel ;)
[10:45] <LjL> can someone please check why my uncloaked host appears to be banned from here? it's 93-32-53-73.ip32.fastwebnet.it
[10:48] <andylockran> I do like netsplits
[10:49] <bigcalm> LjL: that might be a request for #freenode
[10:49] <DJones> LjL: Give me a minute
[10:49] <LjL> bigcalm: erm, not really
[10:49] <DJones> I can only guess that it was from a time when you had connection problems & were bouncing in & out of the channel
[10:49] <LjL> freenode doesn't deal with channel bans
[10:49] <bigcalm> Oh, from this channel, sorry :)
[10:50] <LjL> DJones: i was thinking it might be that, thanks
[10:50] <DJones> Just got to remember the command to remove it now :)
[10:50] <LjL> DJones: you can't remove it now, because we've got no chanserv to op you :P
[10:50] <DJones> Bugger
[10:50] <LjL> well it doesn't matter very much, i'm usually cloaked
[10:51] <DJones> I'll remove it when I can anyway
[10:51] <LjL> thanks
[10:52] <DJones> Even freenode.net is down
[10:52] <bigcalm> -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, one of our sponsors are experiencing some routing issues -- as a result we are missing a few servers, have a messed up rotation, no services and no web presence. Hopefully we'll return to some normality soon. Thank you for your patience and have a good day (or night, if you're Australian!)
[10:52] <DJones> Ah
[10:56] <bigcalm> ChanServ is back
[11:03] <DJones> LjL: Do you want to check thats working now
[11:03] <DJones> Back in a bit, just got head to a meeting for a minutes
[11:17] <oimon> i think that means djones has gone for a poo
[11:18]  * DJones kicks oimon 
[11:18] <oimon> irc'ing on the toilet?
[11:18] <DJones> Nah, ended up a 30 second web demo meeting
[11:20] <DJones> Is packages.ubuntu.com down? Can't decide if its just my web connection causing problems or the site itself
[11:20] <oimon> http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/packages.ubuntu.com
[11:21] <DJones> I suspect it must be my web connection because downforeveryoneorjustme.com seems down :)
[11:24] <oimon> woops
[11:30] <DJones> \o/ somebody has put a new hamster in the hamster wheel powering the internet
[11:31] <bigcalm> Where you getting an +++OUT OF CHEESE ERROR+++ ?
[11:31]  * bigcalm forgets the exact quote :S
[11:34] <kirrus> We've seen some strange transient routing issues over the last few days
[11:36]  * awilkins is wondering if he should try Unity2d for a while
[11:36] <DJones> bigcalm:
[11:36] <DJones> Yep, that was the warning
[11:36] <bigcalm> DJones: yes?
[11:36] <awilkins> If I didn't know this machine was perfectly stable in Windows, I'd suspect the hardware was flaking out
[11:37] <bigcalm> Ah
[11:40] <DJones> Why when you change to a new server, do you always forget the little things you've installed "just at the time", why do I never write them all down
[11:40] <awilkins> DJones, Yeah, I know
[11:40] <awilkins> DJones, It would be nice to have a tool that logs all that stuff and presents a structured list of what you did, so you could separate out the bits that you want everywhere and apply it to all new machines
[11:41] <DJones> yeah, would be good
[11:41] <bigcalm> A project for the 2 of you ;)
[11:42] <DJones> Wouldn't mind, its only a little piddly home server, serves a tiny static website, runs irssi, & keeps a stack of media files for distributing round the house
[11:43] <awilkins> How about... a terminal with an inbuilt wiki pane to the right... select the command text, type a documentation string, it logs that
[11:43] <awilkins> Would help eliminate all the piddly little commands you run like cd, ls
[11:44] <awilkins> Or annotate your bash history
[11:45] <bigcalm> That wouldn't log what you did in config files though
[11:45] <awilkins> bigcalm, No... so how do we link etckeeper or similar into this
[11:45] <awilkins> Link to the commit IDs in your log?
[11:46] <bigcalm> Erm, could do :)
[11:46] <bigcalm> I didn't know about etckeeper
[11:46] <bigcalm> !etckeeper
[11:46] <AlanBell> !info etckeeper
[11:46] <lubotu3`> etckeeper (source: etckeeper): store /etc in git, mercurial, bzr or darcs. In component main, is optional. Version 0.52ubuntu1 (natty), package size 26 kB, installed size 384 kB
[11:47] <bigcalm> AlanBell to the rescue!
[11:47] <bigcalm> Most interesting
[11:48] <awilkins> So, if etckeeper hooks apt, presumably you could also get it to log installed packages
[11:49] <awilkins> (or maybe it does alreadY)
[11:50] <kirrus> package changes are logged into /var/log/dpkg.log.. not sure how helpful that is for you though
[11:52] <Oli> popey: What's your job? Just saw your tweets.
[11:52] <directhex> pkgsync.
[11:52] <MooDoo> isn't it engineering manager?
[11:58] <bigcalm> Chief cake taster
[12:01] <Oli> :)
[12:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 2 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/02/uds-p-day-2/
[12:07] <daubers> Afternoon
[12:09] <MooDoo> hiya daubers
[12:10] <AlanBell> anyone dipping into interesting sessions from UDS today? http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/today
[12:10] <daubers> AlanBell: WOuld do if I had some more time. Intending to try and read some of the summaries over the weekend
[12:15] <MooDoo> hola davmor2 how's UDS?
[12:16] <davmor2> MooDoo: I don't know it's the other side of the building ;)
[12:16] <bigcalm> MooDoo: I'm surprised that czajkowski hasn't sent him to the ER
[12:16] <MooDoo> davmor2: you're not partaking?  Or ust got up?
[12:16] <MooDoo> bigcalm: give her chance :)
[12:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: No czajkowski won't kill me apparently as I'm organising the workspace thing :D
[12:17] <davmor2> MooDoo: no I'm on a team sprint
[12:17] <MooDoo> davmor2: ah!
[12:17]  * mattt is finally getting around to listening to the keynote
[12:17] <bigcalm> davmor2: good, my words didn't go unheeded
[12:18] <mattt> huge openstack focus, wow
[12:19] <awilkins> Hummph, I've switched to Unity2d
[12:20] <awilkins> I shall see if this improves stability - my machine keeps having nasty crashes that coincidentally coincide with pretty graphics moments like window fades, etc
[12:22] <andylockran> :D
[12:22] <andylockran> I'm a happy bunny
[12:22] <MooDoo> andylockran: any particular reason?
[12:22] <andylockran> MooDoo: just enjoying xubuntu+dock
[12:22] <selinuxium> andylockran, Been given a carrot?
[12:22] <andylockran> selinuxium: I'd quite like a carrot
[12:23] <bigcalm> andylockran: which dock?
[12:24] <andylockran> docky
[12:24] <bigcalm> What's the difference from having a panel down there?
[12:24] <andylockran> it also holds minimized apps
[12:25] <bigcalm> I see
[12:25] <bigcalm> I didn't install it as I thought it would need gnome to work correctly
[12:25] <andylockran> nope - it works really well - though need to enable compositing
[12:25] <bigcalm> :|
[12:26] <andylockran> what's that face for?
[12:26]  * selinuxium posts andylockran a carrot...   CoIP hasn't been invented yet...
[12:26] <bigcalm> This system isn't the greatest under Linux for fancy graphics. Which is a shame
[12:27] <andylockran> CoIP
[12:27] <awilkins> Carrot over Internet Protocol
[12:28] <awilkins> Will have to make do with cookies. It does seem a short leap from there to cake, and thus carrot cake... but never mind
[12:28] <bigcalm> Great how the mind works ;)
[12:32] <bigcalm> andylockran: do you find it difficult to grab the edge of a window for resizing?
[12:33] <bigcalm> It feels like a pixel hunt to me
[12:34] <awilkins> Yeah, it's a single pixel area... the alt-F8 key shortcut is a nice idea but it rather removes your hand from the mouse, which is daft when you want to resize a window
[12:35] <bigcalm> Most interesting, ta
[12:35] <bigcalm> Really not optimal though
[12:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: Take a look at bug 160311 :-)
[12:35] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 160311 in metacity "Resizing windows by grabbing window borders is difficult" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160311
[12:35] <awilkins> No, my hand reach is not enough to hit alt-f8 with my left hand, so It's a 2-hand key combo
[12:35] <awilkins> So I have to leave the mouse to do it
[12:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> An old and bloody annoying bug.
[12:37] <bigcalm> awilkins: use the right hand alt?
[12:37] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: poo :(
[12:38] <awilkins> bigcalm, AltGr doesn't work
[12:38] <bigcalm> So I see
[12:53] <bigcalm> Why do I struggle to decide what to have for lunch?
[12:53] <bigcalm> It really shouldn't be this stressful
[12:53] <daubers> bigcalm: I've been told to find myself a new work computer
[12:53] <daubers> thats more stressful
[12:54] <bigcalm> But you can't eat a computer
[12:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ham Sandwich with some of my amazing Chilli Chutney :-D
[12:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> 50 Chillies and 25 cloves of Garlic
[12:56] <bigcalm> How long did it take you to learn to like having your mouth on fire?
[12:56] <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: So you're trying to get some time to yourself then....
[12:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: About 28 years I guess.
[12:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> daubers: :-D
[12:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> It also goes very well with cheese too.
[12:57] <bigcalm> Next you'll tell us that you like chilli chocolate
[12:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> I say "my" Chilli Chutney. I did make it but it was this recipe: http://www.greatcurryrecipes.net/2011/10/27/how-to-make-my-favourite-green-chilli-chutney/
[12:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Great website BTW
[12:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: I do, and so does my 7 yr old son.
[12:59] <bigcalm> My future mother-in-law likes it as well. But I think mothers-in-law are meant to be odd ;)
[13:02] <dogmatic69> anyone used ganglia?
[13:03] <dogmatic69> looks pretty good
[13:03] <popey> $morning all
[13:03] <bigcalm> Afternoon part-timer
[13:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> hey popey! Guess what I got yesterday ;-)
[13:04] <bigcalm> popey: Does every morning start with a hangover, or is that just Aq?
[13:04] <popey> haha
[13:04] <popey> i have no hangover
[13:04] <popey> which is surprising
[13:05] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: hp touchpad?
[13:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> 32G
[13:05] <popey> ooo nice
[13:05] <popey> just one?
[13:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Unfortunately yes.
[13:05] <popey> ☹
[13:05] <AlanBell> got ubuntu on it yet?
[13:05] <popey> heh
[13:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't even unboxed it yet.
[13:06] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: Put CM on it
[13:09]  * popey is in an interesting session about linaro set top boxes
[13:09] <bigcalm> Central heating just came on. Woot \o/
[13:10] <popey> heh
[13:14] <bigcalm> What can we expect the next gen. of set top boxes then?
[13:14] <bigcalm> Will TiVo be a thing of the past?
[13:18] <mattt> does anyone here use juju?
[13:18] <oimon> i wonder how many cheapo STB's over the next year or so will turn out to be a raspberry pi hidden in a bigger case
[13:18] <AlanBell> oimon: not the ones that are linaro based
[14:06] <denny> how can I set the window auto-raise delay for focus-follows-mouse in 11.10 gnome fallback? (or whatever the non-unity, non-gnome-shell UI is called)
[14:16] <popey> davmor2: what was that macro recorder thing you mentioned?
[14:17] <davmor2> popey: xpresser ?
[14:17] <popey> ta
[14:20] <Myrtti> I think more tea is needed
[14:27] <selinuxium> Is there any way of opening applications on particular workspaces? I open the same applications and put them in the same workspaces every morning... would be nice to automate...
[14:27] <selinuxium> To add to the dilemma I have a dual screen set-up
[14:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> selinuxium: Me too :-) If you find out how to do that I'd love to know.
[14:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thunderbird on screen 1, FFox and Hotot on 2, OpenERP Client on 3 and 4 mostly eclipse and/or other stuff.
[14:30] <selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, :) Will do... How are you doing anyway? You near Liverpool Street any time soon?
[14:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> Good thanks selinuxium but not got any "in town" meeting booked for the forseeable right now.
[14:31] <daubers> urgh, I dislike it when customers say "We know you told us not to do this but....."
[14:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> ha
[14:32] <daubers> The answer is generally "Sorry, you're on your own, or you can pay for a callout at £1000+VAT per day (min 1 day) to fix it"
[14:40] <selinuxium> TheOpenSourcerer, Next time you are in town give me a bell for beer! :) Also... http://www.foosel.org/linux/devilspie  is looking promising...
[14:41] <denny> selinuxium: if you're running Compiz you can teach it rules for specific windows...  based on their titles I think
[14:41] <denny> window placement is a long-running pile of &"$£* in Linux/X
[14:42] <denny> if you file a bug about it, everyone goes "It's not our fault, it's their fault!" and points at someone else
[14:42] <denny> it's very tedious
[14:43] <denny> currently it's actually down to application developers to save and request restoration of window position, which seems a bit silly.
[14:43] <selinuxium> hi denny, yeah I am using Compiz but i need to open Chromium-browser in 2 workspaces, one in incognito so I can have 2 google accounts open...
[14:43] <denny> funtiems  :)
[14:44] <selinuxium> denny, TheOpenSourcerer, there appears to be a GUI - gDevilspie
[14:45] <denny> I used devils pie before, but the built-in stuff in compiz seemed to be equivalent or better when I was last looking
[14:45] <denny> I don't even know what WM I'm using any more
[14:46] <denny> 11.10 has done odd things to my machine  :)
[14:46] <denny> well, trying to run 11.10 but without Unity has done odd things
[14:46] <denny> Gnome Shell won't even load on my three-screen setup
[14:46] <denny> although it looked pretty rubbish before it crashed anyway
[14:46] <denny> so I'm running the fallback thing
[14:47] <denny> which is a bit rubbish, but at least I can get work done without the UI getting in my way all the time
[14:47] <nymwar> Gnome shell seems to be running well on my system on 11.10
[14:47] <denny> do you have three monitors running off of two graphics cards?
[14:47] <nymwar> no
[14:47] <denny> I find this causes me a number of issues  :)
[14:48] <denny> in 11.10's defence, this is the first installation of Linux ever to find all three monitors and enable them using only GUI tools
[14:48] <denny> shame about Unity really
[14:48] <denny> and as I say, Gnome Shell didn't like the three monitors, which is interesting given that fallback manages okay and that's still gnome3 if I understand correctly?
[14:49] <AlanBell> unity is a shell for gnome3
[14:49] <denny> oh aye?
[14:49] <AlanBell> gnome-shell is another shell for gnome 3
[14:49] <denny> right
[14:49] <denny> I didn't much like the look of either, but Unity did at least run  :)
[14:50] <AlanBell> and fallback uses the two panel shell for gnome 3
[14:50] <denny> it just took ages to switch between windows and stuff like that
[14:50] <denny> (in terms of my identifying the window I wanted and selecting it, rather than in terms of rendering speed etc)
[14:50] <AlanBell> alt-tab is not very deterministic under unity, I turned that off and use one of the normal switchers
[14:51] <denny> the 'I must be on the left of the screen' thing was a bit of a nuisance on a triple-head setup too...  the left of the left screen is a long way away  :)
[14:51] <denny> I tried Cairo Dock but that was quite faffy too
[14:52] <denny> I'm fairly sure having a task bar is actually quicker for switching between windows, rather than just being what I'm used to
[14:52] <denny> always hard to assess your own biases though
[14:52] <denny> the fact that I like focus-follows-mouse doesn't really work well with the detached menu bar thingy either
[14:53] <denny> i r special snowflake edge case, I guess
[14:53] <AlanBell> focus-follows-mouse has been mentioned in some of the design sessions at UDS
[14:53] <denny> if you're coming from Windows 7, Unity is probably quite nice
[14:53] <denny> it looks quite similar, to my uneducated eye
[14:54] <MooDoo> if you're coming from windows 7 it's aweful, then again if you're linux then windows then linux, it all becomes a blur lol
[14:54] <denny> heh
[14:56] <AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19802/design-p-design-and-community/ would be a good session to bring up comments about unity and what you want it to be in 12.04
[14:56] <AlanBell> at 4PM today
[14:57] <AlanBell> live audio here -> http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/bonaire2.ogg.m3u
[14:57] <AlanBell> talk to the room in the #ubuntu-uds-bonaire2 IRC channel
[14:58] <AlanBell> the IRC channel is on a big projector at the front of the room, all rooms have dual projectors, one for IRC, one with a dangling VGA connector for laptops
[14:58] <AlanBell> so do go in there and politely say you would like multi-monitor improvements and alt-tab to be unbroken
[15:03] <oly> hi, anyone in here able to tell me why firefox is not associated to application when i download files
[15:04] <oly> for example when i download a word document it trys to use archive manager instead of open office and open office is not available in the list
[15:26] <daubers> oly: It's a known bug. I think a fix has been released......
[15:26] <daubers> bug 873470
[15:26] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 873470 in desktop-file-utils (Ubuntu Oneiric) "File-roller is associated with .docx,.xlsx,.pptx files instead of LibreOffice" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/873470
[15:26] <daubers> it might be filtering through the system
[15:26] <bigcalm> Everything is associated with the Archive Manager upon installing 11.10
[15:27] <bigcalm> A bit silly really :)
[15:29] <oly> aha cheers for that info daubers
[16:02] <jacobw> pentadactyl > vimperator? discuss.
[16:08]  * denny blinks
[16:08] <denny> Evolution won't let me create any IMAP folders today
[16:08] <denny> that's helpful
[16:09] <bigcalm> Evolution has never been helpful. Why does it still exist?
[16:10] <denny> I find it more usable than Thunderbird, on average
[16:10] <denny> they all have their quirks though
[16:10] <jacobw> denny: have you tried thunderbird with muttator?
[16:11] <denny> nope?
[16:11] <jacobw> http://vimperator.org/muttator
[16:12] <bigcalm> o.O
[16:12] <bigcalm> vim is going the way of emacs
[16:13] <funkyHat> http://dactyl.sourceforge.net/teledactyl
[16:13] <jacobw> (no (its (not)))
[16:14] <bigcalm> funkyHat: same thing with a different name?
[16:14] <funkyHat> bigcalm: that's just an extension for thunderbird that gives it vi-like keybindings, not actually part of vim
[16:14] <funkyHat> bigcalm: more up to date fork I believe
[16:14] <bigcalm> I know, but everything is starting to look like vim ;)
[16:14] <czajkowski> aloha
[16:14] <bigcalm> Ah yes, just read that
[16:14] <bigcalm> Hi czajkowski :)
[16:14] <denny> why anyone would want anything to behave like vim I have no idea
[16:14] <denny> or like any CLI application for that matter, they're almost all completely insane
[16:15] <denny> vi has always struck me as particularly special though... a text editor that, when you load it, won't let you edit the text (until you change mode)
[16:15] <funkyHat> denny: vim has a bit of a steep learning curve but then the amount of keypresses required to do stuff just gets less and less
[16:15] <denny> primary purpose fail :)
[16:16] <funkyHat> Except experienced vim users probably spend less time in insert mode than other modes
[16:18] <funkyHat> Starting in insert modewould annoy me, at any rate ;)
[16:20] <bigcalm> There are 2 things that need to be made obvious when using an editor: 1) how to edit. 2) how to exit
[16:23] <funkyHat> That depends on whether you're trying to make a tet editor that's easy to use or a text editor that's fast to use
[16:23] <funkyHat> s/tet/text/
[16:23] <ali1234> vim isn't fast to use
[16:24] <bigcalm> It's quite often set as the default editor on systems. I had no idea what I was doing when I 1st tried to edit a cronjob
[16:24] <ali1234> most of the claimed "fast" things you can do with it rely on you having memorized the entire text you are editing
[16:24] <funkyHat> ali1234: I disagree
[16:25] <denny> yeah, pico would be a friendlier default
[16:25] <denny> with the menu across the bottom  :)
[16:25] <funkyHat> But I'm also not going to suggest that it should be the default editor ⢁)
[16:25] <funkyHat> Or nano. I think nano is the default in ubuntu
[16:25] <jacobw> nano provided by debian and ubuntu for intuitive editting
[16:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> nano is pretty cool as long as you open it with -c
[16:27] <bigcalm> I open with -w
[16:27] <bigcalm> Otherwise it kills configs
[16:28] <bigcalm> As with everything, you need to know what you're doing before you start
[16:28]  * funkyHat sshes into a box that has nano on it to check what those options do
[16:30] <funkyHat> What? It actually edits lines just bcause they are too long without -w?
[16:30] <denny> :-o
[16:30] <denny> helpful.
[16:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have not experienced that issue before. I like -c cause it shows your cursor position a.k.a line number
[16:33] <NET||abuse> hey guys. i'm on a new work machine, ubuntu 11.10, tomboy fails to finish initial sync
[16:33] <NET||abuse> i get about 38 of my 200 notes downloaded, then it stops
[16:34] <NET||abuse> just says failed to sync, see below for details, that gives me the 38 notes with "Added" indicated beside each one, but that's it.
[16:34] <NET||abuse> no errors apparent in that list
[16:34] <jacobw> NET||abuse: which synchronisation method are you using?
[16:56] <jacobw> i've seen the same episode of scrubs twice today on sky
[16:56] <jacobw> perhaps its a good thing i've never had sky before
[16:57] <sadsun> I watch everything online nowadays
[17:23] <aaronr> upgrading a machine to 11.10 and see a message saying "the support in ubuntu 11.10 for your intel graphics hardware is limited and you may encounter problems after the upgrade" — will this computer still work in the Ubuntu 2D mode, or does it need a better graphics card before i upgrade? (are there any docs on what doesn't work?)
[17:28] <jacobw> aaronr: http://friendly.ubuntu.com/
[17:34] <NET||abuse> jacobw: oops, an hour later.....
[17:34] <aaronr> jacobw: thanks, but i'm interested in what specifically won't work. if it will work in unity 2d mode, then i don't need to upgrade the graphics card. if not, i will.
[17:35] <NET||abuse> jacobw: yeh, using Tomboy Web sync, through Ubuntu One
[17:36] <jacobw> aaronr: can you try it with the live image?
[17:38] <jacobw> NET||abuse: how many notes can you see in the web interfac?
[17:39] <aaronr> jacobw: yeah, i can give it a shot.
[17:40] <aaronr> i'd still like to understand what's changed in 11.10 and find out more about what will break, though. i'm having trouble finding relevant docs explaining this message.
[17:40] <jacobw> do you know which driver your using?
[17:43] <gord> http://i.imgur.com/CGB8v.png is genius.
[17:45] <aaronr> jacobw: according to Xorg.log it's the intel driver for an intel 865g gpu
[17:54] <AlanBell> gord: that got through the app review process!
[18:03] <jacobw> aaronr: i don't think there's any regressions, looking at launchpad bugs and answers doesn't uncover any new issues in oneiric
[18:03] <bigcalm> gord: haha
[18:05] <diplo> Evening all
[18:06] <diplo> Gnome3 is much smoother than unity so far
[18:17] <BigRedS> Gnome3 has more boring bugs than unity, though
[18:18] <diplo> Not for me yet, not crashed once yet
[18:18] <diplo> Yet unity has crashed multiple times
[18:18] <aaronr> thanks jacobw
[18:18] <BigRedS> nah, not crashes, just stupid design decisions
[18:18] <BigRedS> I've not had either crash much at all
[18:18] <diplo> Oh unity has been once or twice a night
[18:18] <diplo> Don't like the no option of minimise though
[18:19] <BigRedS> yeah, that's the sort of design decisions that need fixing
[18:20] <BigRedS> that's the thing, gnome3 is broken out of the box in a usability sense, so you isntall these extensions and it works
[18:20] <BigRedS> unity just does random things every so often to keep me on my toes
[18:46] <gr33npeace> whois tomk tomk
[18:46] <sadsun> busted
[18:56] <mattt> haha
[18:56] <mattt> boosted
[18:57] <bigcalm> Mmm, could nobble a Boost
[19:08] <jacobw> i'm considering a system76 lemur ultra, can anyone testify as to their quality?
[19:42] <stevepdp> evening friends
[20:07] <daubers> Evening
[20:09] <mattt> howzit guys
[20:17] <feisar> I've just done a clean install of 11.10 with an nvidia card, activated the nvidia drivers but I have no shadows on the desktop - why would that be?
[20:21] <jacobw> feisar: have you restarted the X server since activating the drivers? you can log out and back in again to do so
[20:30] <feisar> jacobw: yeah I have restarted and still no go, thanks
[20:31] <jajajajaj> 895
[21:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jonathan Riddell] Precise Ubuntu Developer Summit - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4496
[21:09] <ali1234> i just watched the a-team reboot movie
[21:09] <ali1234> it's terrible
[21:09] <ali1234> don't watch it
[21:10] <DJones> A wish you'd said that about 6 months ago
[21:10] <hamitron> is it so bad I got to watch it, to believe how bad it is? ;)
[21:11] <ali1234> no
[21:11] <ali1234> it's just stupid
[21:15] <ali1234> i haven't really watched any films in ages
[21:15] <Myrtti> apparently the frozen planet on bbc is really exciting
[21:15] <hamitron> Myrtti, after Planet Dinosaur, I haven't bothered with that one
[21:15] <hamitron> :/
[21:16] <ali1234> hamitron http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uIQZkXPkU
[21:16] <hamitron> ouuu
[21:17] <hamitron> I got a server to bypass youtube filtering now, so i can download it
[21:17] <hamitron> :)
[21:17] <ali1234> what is youtube filtering
[21:17] <hamitron> I blocked youtube
[21:17] <ali1234> you blocked youtube and then you got a server to get around your own block
[21:17] <hamitron> so others here can't slow down my internet
[21:17] <hamitron> yes
[21:17] <hamitron> haha
[21:18] <hamitron> I can't remember the command for downloading youtube
[21:18] <hamitron> :/
[21:19] <MartijnVdS> wget
[21:19] <hamitron> wget does it?
[21:20] <MartijnVdS> if you know the URL, sure
[21:20] <ali1234> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xb53su_nathan-smithe-s-tv-impossible-plane_fun
[21:20] <ali1234> same video
[21:21] <hamitron> but....
[21:22] <hamitron> still need to work this out
[21:22] <hamitron> :/
[21:23] <hamitron> ali1234, that is blocked too
[21:23] <hamitron> I'm just been dumb with youtube-dl
[21:23] <hamitron> :/
[21:23] <hamitron> can't work it out
[21:28] <hamitron> why is this not working?
[21:28] <hamitron> youtube-dl -b http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uIQZkXPkU
[21:29] <hamitron> :/
[21:29] <ali1234> because you've blocked youtube?
[21:30] <hamitron> it isn't blocked on the server I'm running that
[21:31] <hamitron> get_iplayer works
[21:31] <hamitron> :)
[21:31] <DJones> hamitron: Just ran that same command, I get an error "no such option: -b"
[21:31] <hamitron> b for best
[21:32] <DJones> -b isn't listed in the options for man youtube-dl
[21:33] <hamitron> well, can you get it working at all?
[21:33] <hamitron> -b, --best-quality  download the best quality video possible
[21:33] <jacobw> version?
[21:33] <DJones> Just take the -b, seems to be working for me
[21:34] <DJones> "youtube-dl http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uIQZkXPkU"
[21:34] <hamitron> version is 2010.04.04
[21:36] <DJones> hamitron: http://pastebin.com/pi0s7Ybg
[21:37] <hamitron> DJones, what is youtube-dl -v
[21:37] <hamitron> ?
[21:37]  * hamitron on lucid
[21:38] <DJones> hamitron: No idea, I've never used it until you mentioned you had problems
[21:38] <DJones> -v is version
[21:38] <hamitron> I mean, what version you have?
[21:38] <hamitron> ;)
[21:38] <DJones> sorry, just realised that
[21:39] <DJones> 2011.08.04 (I'm on 11.10)
[21:39] <hamitron> must be some fixes :/
[21:41] <DJones> These are the options available in this version http://pastebin.com/3D9wnNAa
[21:41] <hamitron> I guess it is tough keeping apps up-to-date with online services that change
[21:42] <Laney> especially ones that probably don't want you doing it
[21:43] <hamitron> DJones, yeh, different :)
[21:43] <ali1234> i was thinking about that the other day when trying to rip a video from the bbc
[21:43] <hamitron> http://pastebin.com/TuWMgMHC
[21:44] <hamitron> one reason i don't like all this online stuff tbh
[21:44] <ali1234> you can make a foolproof ripper by using tcpdump
[21:45] <hamitron> :/
[21:45] <hamitron> I can? ;/ maybe you can
[21:45] <hamitron> ;)
[21:45] <ali1234> then i was thinking a bit more
[21:46] <ali1234> and i came up with the idea of dumping all packets and replaying them
[21:46] <ali1234> rather than spidering everything and trying to keep up with site changes
[21:46] <hamitron> but wouldn't that be messy, and increase storage size?
[21:47] <ali1234> just record every outgoing stream, checksum on the first few bytes, and then store the response
[21:47] <hamitron> also, would need another app that supports connecting in the first place
[21:48] <ali1234> it would be done at the network device level
[21:48] <ali1234> you'd have a special network device that has recording or playback modes
[21:48] <ali1234> most of the infrastructure for this already exists
[21:48] <jacobw> it'd allow many users on a high bandwidth domain to stream X from a low bandwidth domain
[21:49] <ali1234> i suppose it could be used as a cache too
[21:49] <ali1234> i've done some work on a wayback machine type of thing
[21:49] <hamitron> imo, the bbc and youtube should just have torrents
[21:49] <ali1234> and spidering pages that uses flash etc is hard
[21:49] <hamitron> ;)
[21:50] <ali1234> mainly because flashplugin crashes so much
[21:50] <ali1234> the approach i used was to use webkit and hook every received file
[21:50] <ali1234> since plugins go through the browser api for most stuff
[21:50] <ali1234> but it isn't perfect
[21:50] <Laney> how do I rate something in the software centre?
[21:51] <ali1234> you have to write a review i think
[21:51] <Laney> don't think so
[21:51] <ali1234> and you have to be logged in of course
[21:51] <Laney> but how do you get to that bit?
[21:51] <ali1234> i don't really use software centre
[21:51] <Laney> can't see anywhere to log in
[21:52] <ali1234> you also have to have the package installed
[21:52] <Laney> yes
[21:52] <ali1234> you have to go to more info
[21:52] <ali1234> then scroll down to "add your review"
[21:53] <ali1234> "write your own review"
[21:54] <Laney> found it
[21:54] <hamitron> heh
[21:54] <hamitron> youtube-dl is just a python script
[21:54] <hamitron> so downloaded it and running with ./youtube-dl
[21:54] <Laney> "An exception representing server-side error"
[21:54] <hamitron> ;)
[21:54] <Laney> hah
[21:56] <ali1234> i tried to write a review once and it just crashed the whole thing
[21:56] <ali1234> that was ages ago though
[21:56] <ali1234> i heard that has been fixed
[21:57] <Laney> worked on the second try
[21:58] <hamitron> ali1234, 55mins remaining
[21:58] <ali1234> hah
[21:58] <ali1234> the video isn't worth it
[21:58] <hamitron> oh, ok
[21:59] <hamitron> well, at least I got the downloader fixed now, for when there is something worth getting
[21:59] <hamitron> ;)
[22:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] UDS In Full Swing - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/02/uds-in-full-swing/
[22:06] <dwatkins> I wish they hadn't turned off Google Reader's ability to share links via bookmarklet.