/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/03/#ubuntu-uk.txt

=== Monster_Killer is now known as MonsterKiller
DJonesMorning all07:55
TheOpenSourcererhttp://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/open-source-procurement-toolkit08:15
diploMorning all08:17
_janeMorning diplo08:19
_janeI am affected by the bug #851055 tracked  at lauchpad08:20
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 851055 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[Oneiric] 'Not Authorized' error given when mounting device" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/85105508:20
_janelubotu3`: yes, that it08:20
_janethe status is "fix released"08:20
AlanBellyay, they finally published the toolkit08:21
_janeI am not sure how I get access to the update. Just a apt-get update was not enough08:22
_serial_apt-get upgrade?08:22
TheOpenSourcererHey - A Cabinet Office document espousing the Four Freedoms :-)08:24
daubersMorning08:25
diploAnyone know if I can run Gnome 3.2 on 10.10 ?08:26
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: wonder how that got there ;)08:26
TheOpenSourcererlol08:26
_jane_serial_: I will try that. Cheers!08:27
TheOpenSourcererGosh. On Open Standards: "have intellectual property made irrevocably available on a royalty free basis..."08:27
AlanBelland Ubuntu gets a mention in the options catalog08:30
AlanBelland Alfresco and OpenERP08:31
daubersAnyone had experience of HP probooks?08:43
diploI'm using one right here daubers08:44
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: they very nearly required open standards to be publicly available for free too, but bizarely I had to hold them back from that one08:44
daubersdiplo: Any good? Thinking of getting one to replace my desktop at work08:44
AlanBelldidn't want the BSI to challenge the whole definition because they couldn't charge £80 for a bit of paper08:44
diploWindows/Ubuntu ?08:45
TheOpenSourcererJust looking through the Options doc.08:45
daubersdiplo: Will be dual booted08:45
daubersAlanBell: Is that the stuff you where consulting on?08:45
TheOpenSourcererGood stuff in general. But they still talk about it like a COTS.08:45
AlanBellthe plan is to keep updating the options document over time08:45
TheOpenSourcererNot much on engagement.08:45
diploI dual boot, but rarely go into ubuntu as I just can't get setup right08:45
diploPart to do with ATI GFX card in it I think08:45
daubersdiplo: In what way?08:45
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: yes, that was kind of intentional, it is aimed at people already in "product" mode thinking08:46
diploI use dual screens a lot and can't get it to work very well08:46
daubersHmmm... I'd be doing that more or less every day.08:46
diploAlso, it Ubuntu ( not tried other OS's yet ) don't seem to control the fans very well08:46
diploin*08:46
AlanBelldaubers: I may have had a tiny bit of influence in a few areas :)08:46
diploSo they spin up a lot more than in Windows08:46
daubersdiplo: Have you got the one with a quad amd in it?08:47
daubersAlanBell: Heh :)08:47
daubersWonder what part of the kernel actually controls the fans08:48
daubersMust be something like ACPI08:48
diployeah, did a fair bit of looking 6 months or so ago, and I do think it can be fixed but I had spent so much time on it already08:49
diploIt's the i3 ( my company are skin flints on hardware )08:49
diplo:/08:49
daubersAh, I know a company who do ex demo/reconditioned stuff, so the quad AMD is about £40008:49
diploi3 M350 @ 2.27ghz08:50
diploNice, cheaper than my new one08:50
diploI'd have been happy with that08:50
daubersTHis is a Phenom II N930 ' 2.0GHz08:50
_serial_you can get refurb (dell) from http://www.mcscom.co.uk/ for quite cheap08:51
daubersBe tempted to try and wangle a dock as well (£80 odd from the same place)08:51
diploI do like the laptop daubers, just got fed up of getting things right I guess.. really wanted an Intel chipset as they always just work for me08:53
ubuntubhoyMorning guys, can anyone help remove the config files for OnBoard keyboard ?08:54
daubersdiplo: I'm a bit bored of stuff "just work"ing08:54
daubersfancy getting my hands dirty getting stuff to work again08:55
MooDoo_serial_: i use mark at msccom.co.uk :)   got one of my desktops from there08:56
daubersI do wish AMD had something like the Intel Ark08:56
Myrttimoin08:57
_serial_MooDoo: cool :)  yup mark very friendly and helpful,08:57
smittixMorning08:59
MooDoomorning smittix09:01
bigcalmGood morning, peeps :)09:02
AlanBellubuntubhoy: which bit of the config? your personal preferences?09:07
ubuntubhoyyeah09:07
ubuntubhoyscreen position to be exact09:08
ubuntubhoymanaged to move the right hand side off screen somehow09:08
ubuntubhoyso the move icon is off screen09:08
AlanBelloh heck, and alt+click drag doesn't work09:08
ubuntubhoynope09:09
ubuntubhoyplus it has no window border09:09
AlanBellare you running the version in oneiric-proposed?09:09
AlanBelldidn't think that had been fully released yet09:10
ubuntubhoyhmm, maybe09:10
ubuntubhoyprobably infact09:10
ubuntubhoyI deleted onboard, purged onboard, autoremoved stray libs, deleted onboard .folder, and deleted onboard folder from .config, and .gconf09:11
ubuntubhoystill remembers the position09:12
AlanBellyeah, it isn't an onboard configuration as such09:12
AlanBellwindow manager somewhere09:12
ubuntubhoyIf only Newrez worked in oneiric, would be a simple workaround to move it back09:13
AlanBellI was going to file a bug about the scanning layout not being draggable, but this is another situation where the lack of title bar is a bit inconvenient09:13
ubuntubhoyeven just a position option in the prefs app would work09:14
ubuntubhoyor reset to defaults09:14
AlanBellrunning unity 3d?09:15
ubuntubhoynah, Gnome Shell09:15
AlanBellwith compiz?09:17
ubuntubhoydont think Shell uses it by default, and I have not set it09:17
AlanBellhmm, ok. For reference, with compiz in ccsm you can use the place windows plugin to set windows to start centred rather than "smart"09:18
ubuntubhoylet me install fusion-icon and see if it will switch to compiz09:19
BigRedSI don't think you can do Gnome-shell + compiz09:19
ubuntubhoyneither did I09:19
ubuntubhoywill soon find out how much it breaks it09:20
ubuntubhoyFusion-icon claims it has compiz running, installing CCSM09:22
AlanBellubuntubhoy: want me to file the bug?09:22
ubuntubhoyyeah, will be handy if someone else manages to push it off screen09:23
AlanBellI will make sure it is fixed somehow before that version escapes from -proposed into the main repos09:24
ubuntubhoyno joy with the compiz plugin09:26
ubuntubhoystill starts in position09:26
ubuntubhoywill just have to use Florence or the default Shell on-screen keyboard09:27
JamesTaitHappy Thursday, everyone! *8O)09:33
AlanBellfor anyone looking at the open source options catalog https://docs.google.com/#folders/0B2vdKVZndUC0YThlODVkNGQtMDJiMi00OGUyLWIxYjktNWUyNWRlZTY3YThl09:33
AlanBellfeel free to email Tariq with changes you want to it09:34
ali1234link doesn't work09:34
ali1234oh, now it does09:34
AlanBellhttp://bit.ly/hDuFEG < does that one work?09:34
AlanBellok, in the readme is his email address at the Home Office09:35
AlanBellhe would love to hear feedback about the document and if you have additional free software products you would like to see on the list he is very likely to add them09:36
AlanBellthe list has been kicking about since february this year09:37
BigRedSI do like how much free software stuff is hosted on google docs09:44
AlanBellit is good for co-editing stuff that is more formatted than etherpad can do09:47
AlanBelland you can export in odf formats for final formatting in LibreOffice09:48
BigRedSyeah, it just seems a bit, well, non-free. Not that there's huge amounts in the way of alternatives at the minute09:48
AlanBellyeah, when LibreOffice rendering to HTML 5 canvas hosted on Ubuntu One happens we will probably use that09:49
AlanBelldunno if that will support co-editing though09:50
BigRedSI imagine at some point it will. seems an inevitable feature really09:51
AlanBellI have suggested that ODF needs to be extended with a protocol for co-editing09:51
AlanBellso you would send ODF fragments and xpath locations over some kind of transport (telepathy or jabber or whatever) and they would be inserted at the other end09:52
TheOpenSourcererInteresting MQTT going to Eclipse... www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/11/ibm-open-sources-potential-int.php09:53
AlanBellso you could have a bunch of people working together on different ODF supporting desktop clients all co-editing the same document via some kind of coordinating server09:53
TheOpenSourcererThere was a working "mockup" of OOo using a Wiki backend to do just this a couple of years back.09:54
AlanBellthere was, not sure it was ODF based or at the UNO api level, or just wrote the whole document to the wiki09:55
AlanBellhow does MQTT going to eclipse make any sense whatsoever??09:56
ali1234that's what i was just wondering09:56
oimonare canonical missing a trick by not making a lightweight version with the raspberry pi guys? that thing could sell over a million units09:56
deej1976https://abicollab.net/09:56
ali1234probably09:56
TheOpenSourcererIt's a foundation (although a very IBM centric one) so control is less one-vendor driven.09:57
AlanBellok, so they are handing control of MQTT to the Eclipse foundation and it has nothing to do with the Eclipse software09:57
AlanBellthey want to make it more like the Apache foundation I guess09:57
TheOpenSourcererIt gives it more independance09:58
TheOpenSourcererMight also be submitted to OASIS for ratification a little birdy tells me.09:58
AlanBelloimon: no, for a couple of reasons, but if the raspberry pi does a hardware revision next year to a more current generation of ARM processor then it will probably run Ubuntu09:59
AlanBellbut if they do that they need to make a whole bunch of components on the board more expensive09:59
oimonAlanBell: sure, although it might be a bit late for them to switch distro then10:00
AlanBellno, not at all10:00
AlanBellthe thing has SD card storage and the idea is you have a bunch of them, not "this is my computer and it's operating system"10:00
ali1234ubuntu is unsuited to running on hardware like that anyway10:01
AlanBellthat too10:01
ali1234it doesn't have enough memory either10:01
AlanBellwell, just needs a bit more memory and a tiny bit more grunt10:01
ali1234no10:01
ali1234it needs probably at least 4x as much memory and 2x as much CPU to run ubuntu reasonably10:02
ali1234by reasonably i mean it boots before the class ends10:02
oimonaren't they building an ARM fedora for it?10:02
ali1234no, they are just using the regular ARM fedora10:02
ali1234it is a lot easier to customize a fedora install and remove the useless parts10:03
oimonthat's why i was thinking of a ligtwieght ubuntu - more of a branding opportunity than the full ubuntu experience10:03
AlanBellyes, by "a bit more memory" I meant just a gig or two and a bit more grunt just another core and a few hundred mhz :)10:03
oimonthis thing coudl be huge10:03
ali1234the effort required to make a lightweight ubuntu...10:04
ali1234it isn't worth it10:04
ali1234it wouldn't be ubuntu any more10:04
ali1234first thing that would need t go would be unity10:04
TheOpenSourcerererm. It's called debian.10:05
ali1234yeah exactly10:05
ali1234it uses debian already10:05
iclebyteunity is gash for want of a better term10:05
BigRedSOh not this again. Isn't there something new to complain about?10:05
BigRedSAh! The google reader interface!10:05
BigRedSwe can do that10:05
MooDooali1234: fedora o/ :)10:06
oimonhowever if it used "ubuntu diet" version..10:06
ali1234there is no such thing10:06
TheOpenSourcererBigRedS: I'm annoyed at the Google Reader Gadget in iGoogle. Lost all the Tags :-)10:06
oimonmy point is that it might have been worth the effort to do it to increase exposure - this thing will be popular in schools globally10:07
BigRedSTo be fair, I don't use Google reader, so I'm not sure. I just heard ranting from behind me yesterday from someone who does :)10:07
oimoni would like to use google reader but liferea doesn't support it grrr10:08
shaunoI'd rather see the bbc put a face on it.  painting debian purple just for the sake of squeezing your branding where it doesn't belong, doesn't sound terribly productive10:08
ubuntubhoyAlanBell, FYI installed the non proposed OnBoard, and it starts as it should10:08
ali1234the question is, does ubuntu want to be known as "the slow operating system that ruined the raspberry pi by being unusable"10:08
oimonit would be nice to see the owl on it :P10:08
ubuntubhoywhat was really weird with the proposed version is it even remembered the theme10:08
BigRedSoimon: Would it be worthwhile if the standard Ubuntu was completely different to the 'lightweight' one?10:08
AlanBellali1234: no, which is why I told them to take Ubuntu off their marketing material10:08
oimonBigRedS: possibly as the pi will get into new markets not previously reached..i guess others disagree though10:09
AlanBellwell actually because it wasn't going to run at all on ARM 6 instruction set10:09
ali1234and it hasn't done for a long time10:09
daubersHmmm... not good http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/03/disk_drive_prices_may_double/10:09
AlanBellubuntubhoy: bug 88560810:09
lubotu3`Launchpad bug 885608 in onboard (Ubuntu) "if you manage to get onboard move button offscreen you can't get it back" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88560810:09
BigRedSoimon: but what's teh point if it's not the ubuntu anyone's going to use? It might as well be Debian or whatever10:09
ubuntubhoycheers10:10
oimonBigRedS:  rom my POV i don't care as long as it's linux.10:10
oimon/rom/from10:10
TheOpenSourcereroimon: Well Windows CE wouldn't really work very well would it? ;-) And it would double (or more) the price.10:11
ali1234ubuntu is no longer meant to be installed by the user anyway10:11
oimonali1234: not true, otherwise they wouldn't insist on fitting on the CD and making an excellent installer10:12
gordback home from uds now :) was really great this year and i was only there for 2.5 days!10:12
ali1234the installer is all about configuring the user10:12
AlanBellwith the Raspberry Pi you would have a stack of SD cards, maybe cards with a Linux From Scratch project, Debian, Fedora, Debian/Hurd, minix, BeOS etc.10:12
ali1234the actual installation part is entirely automated and the user has no control10:13
AlanBellit isn't supposed to have a permanently installed boot disk10:13
TheOpenSourcererOooh. Yeah - LFS 7 was released yesterday10:13
TheOpenSourcererAlthough technicall AlanBell on the Pi it would need to be CLFS10:13
AlanBellTheOpenSourcerer: what is that? cross compiled?10:13
TheOpenSourcererYeah10:14
TheOpenSourcererLFS is x8610:14
ali1234i don't see why you would have all your cards running a different distro10:14
ali1234just pick one and then make cards for each task10:14
AlanBellyou certainly could do that too10:14
ali1234most kids will probably end up with 1 card for each class that uses it10:14
ali1234which means they'll probably have 1 card for word processing, and 1 card for whatever programming class10:15
ali1234however given the size of sd cards now, those can probably be put on 1 card10:15
AlanBellI know they want to do a card that boots up a BBC micro emulator10:15
ali1234lol10:16
* BigRedS would buy that10:16
ali1234well good luck licencing the roms10:16
AlanBellthey want the BBC to publish that card10:16
oimonwould kids need a pc in their room if web browsing and openoffice work OK on the pi?10:16
ali1234yes10:16
ali1234web browsing won't work well on it10:17
oimonhave you seen the demos?10:17
ali1234yes10:17
ali1234and i am also familiar with the hardware10:17
* AlanBell has seen one10:17
BigRedSflash for arm?10:17
ali1234and i have worked on ARM distros for a couple of years10:17
ali1234yes, flash will be the big problem, flash for ARM totally sucks10:18
AlanBellit will work as badly as an android browser on a slow arm smart phone10:18
ali1234and the next biggest problem will be getting a real browser to run in such tiny amount of memory10:18
AlanBellexcept you will be running it at a higher resolution10:18
ali1234then there's that whole, "i'm word processing a report and i need to check something on google" problem10:19
AlanBellfunctional, but not enjoyable if you have expectations formed from a modern desktop or laptop10:20
ali1234where you have to reboot, swap cards, wait 5 minutes for it to boot, check google, reboot, swap cards, wait 5 minutes for it to boot back into the word processor10:20
ali1234(if you use this crazy idea of lots of different cards)10:20
BigRedSNobody is going to do that10:21
oimonhow about running free-nx on it and using as a thin client :)10:21
oimonto daddy's PC10:21
AlanBellit isi not a desktop computer. It is a platform for doing interesting things in computing.10:21
BigRedSI thought the bulk of the point of it was that it's a project base, not a PC?10:21
BigRedSIt doesn't need to run Firefox or flash or whatever, just vi and Perl10:21
BigRedSor whatever10:22
oimonquake3 runs ok on it :)10:22
oimonok/well/10:22
ali1234quake3 has minimal system requirements10:22
ali1234it has already been ported to opengl|es for example10:22
ali1234and it is like 10 years old10:22
AlanBellif you think of it as a high powered arduino you are in the right place with your expectations10:22
BigRedSoimon: yeah, quake 3 runs on my 1995 thinkpad10:23
ali1234everyone always ports quake3 because it is so easy10:23
BigRedSFirefox doesn't10:23
oimonpersonally i am thinking of an upgrade to my nslu2 , but thinking about other uses10:23
ali1234nslu10:23
ali1234aren't those arm?10:23
ali1234or mips?10:23
oimonARM10:24
oimon32MB RAM , 266mhz ARM xscale10:24
shaunoI have wondered that; whether this pi business has gumstix terrified10:25
ali1234hopefully10:25
ali1234gumstix is a total rip off10:25
ali1234theyare all about making boards that are only compatible with each other and selling them for 200% more than a generic board10:26
oimoni wonder what the profit margin is on the pi10:29
AlanBellbarely anything10:30
BigRedSthat's the point, I thought?10:30
TheOpenSourcereroimon: Raspberry Pi is a charity and a NFP10:35
oimonah, thanks for the clarification.10:35
oimonthey are good guys :)10:35
oimonspent 10 mins trying to navigate the menus for my car insurer :(11:00
oimonon the phone11:01
BigRedSAnyone know how to configure an Amazon EC2 alert so that if *any* instance (ideally of a given type) meet the criteria it'll alert, rather than just an aggregation of them?11:04
oimonRMS speaking in east london tonight @ goldsmiths college11:08
oimonhttp://castlondon.com/events/stallman.html11:08
MooDoooimon: he spoke at nottingham, the about of "he's a sh**" feedback i got was imense11:10
BigRedSIt's odd how as free software's become more acceptable to everyone else, he seems to have become less acceptable to free softwary people11:12
oimoni wonder if you have to be that kind of character? simon phipps preaches a similar message but doesn't cause as much offence11:16
freakyclownguys, my notification area in unity in 11.10 has stopped kinda working11:57
freakyclownwhats there already i can use, but if i open up something new it does appear there11:57
freakyclownis there a quick way to reset it?11:57
AlanBellhttp://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/2011-11-03/ UDS starts in 50 minutes or so, live audio streams available from the rooms, and you can talk back over IRC, ask if you see anything interesting and want help getting set up to participate12:11
ali1234AlanBell: the schedule page is really hard to read :(12:15
oimon+112:16
AlanBellI know12:16
oimontook a while before i realised the times were on the LHS12:16
oimonin size 212:16
NET||abusehmm, so anyone know of a solution to oneiric and pulse audio streaming?12:16
AlanBelleveryone is a bit scared of the code that generates it12:16
oimonlol12:17
oimonwow, the descriptions are size 012:17
ali1234yeah exactly12:17
NET||abusei have a natty laptop and an oneiric desktop without speakers or accessible headphone jack12:17
oimoncompiz zoom FTW12:17
NET||abuseso want to stream all desktop audio to laptop.12:17
ali12344pm UK time: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19502/community-p-ux-participation/12:17
NET||abusebut pavdevchooser isn't in oneiric anymore12:17
=== dipl0 is now known as diplo
NET||abuseso how can i select my laptop as the pulse audio device?12:18
NET||abusepavdev? padevchooser12:18
NET||abuse:P12:18
AlanBelloimon: click the little pen+pad icon to read the descriptions at a more sensible size12:20
ali1234then at 7pm: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19794/design-p-unity-benchmark-testing-results/12:20
AlanBellgreat, absolutly pile on and beat the unity devs :)12:21
AlanBellnicely of course, but do give your feedback12:21
ali1234and 8pm: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19612/community-p-dev-outreach/12:21
AlanBellthere is also a 15 minute talk on UEFI and Secure Boot at 18:3012:22
ali1234i don't see what anyone can do about that12:22
ali1234the only circumstances under which i would even turn it on are if i can choose the key12:22
AlanBellnothing at all can be done technically, but I think they will say what they are doing to get OEMs to allow you to choose the key http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19245/plenary-uefi/12:23
AlanBellplus what they are going to do to provide a signed grub I guess12:23
ali1234i want self signing or nothing12:24
NET||abusein oneiric, how do i change the popout menu behaviour, there's no obvious settings for it in System settings.12:24
AlanBellNET||abuse: I think you are supposed to like it :)12:24
ali1234whats a pop out menu?12:24
AlanBellthere are sessions on making unity more customisable12:24
ali1234i've heard of pop up menus12:24
AlanBellthe right click on a launcher item menu?12:25
NET||abusei tend to use synergy, and the menu is causing some glitchyness, so wan tto turn off having it pop from mousing onto the left edge to just the left upper corner12:25
ali1234ah launcher reveal12:25
NET||abuseactually in natty the customization was all through ccsm i think12:25
NET||abusehmm, would have to install ccsm in oneiric12:25
ali1234it still is afaik12:25
AlanBellccsm, unity plugin, reveal mode12:26
NET||abuseah yeh, i looked for that before, and ccsm isn't in repos.12:26
NET||abuse:(12:26
ali1234sure it is12:26
ali1234i have it installed :/12:26
NET||abuseoh, i was looking for literally ccsm12:26
AlanBellccsm isn't the package name12:26
NET||abuseforgot the package is called compizconfig-settings-manager12:26
ali1234use the launcher application lens12:26
ali1234just enter "compiz" and it will find it12:26
ali1234click to install through software centre12:26
ali1234this stuff works quite well now12:27
AlanBellNET||abuse: glad you found that, I can never remember where the hyphens go!12:27
NET||abuseahhhhhh12:27
NET||abusei never realized the lens thing did that!12:27
NET||abuseawsome12:27
NET||abusehehe12:27
AlanBellI have set mine to never hide because I don't need the pixels and it keeps getting in the way of browser back buttons12:28
ali1234yeah i get that all the time12:28
ali1234go to top left to go back and accidentally touch the edge of the screen12:28
ali1234not just in the browser either12:28
ali1234there is too much stuff concentrated in the top left corner12:28
NET||abusehmm, checked the lens for Pulse, found PulseAudio Manager.12:29
ali1234also it happens with gedit or terminal when i want to select a block of text12:29
ali1234very annoying12:29
NET||abusemaybe i can do networked pulseaudio wth that?12:29
ali1234isn't there a way to tunnel PA over ssh12:29
ali1234like ssh -X but for PA12:29
ali1234http://askubuntu.com/questions/2145/how-can-i-use-pulseaudio-over-ssh12:30
NET||abuseali1234: the accepted answer there points to a 2009 blog entry which includes use of padevchooser which is no longer included in oneiric12:33
ali1234well maybe there is something useful in the other answers, idk12:33
NET||abusehmm, actually, i'll take that back, blog entry only mentions it in passing,12:34
NET||abusethis example is a little more involved and ssh'y12:34
* NET||abuse sad12:42
ali1234https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccomplishmentsSpec :O12:44
freakyclownanyone have an answer for my Q earlier?12:44
freakyclownabout reseting the indicator panel?12:44
oimonhave you tried a unity --reset?12:44
freakyclowni *NEED* to get to tomboy and as its not displaying anything new i cant :/12:44
NET||abusefreakyclown: you having sync failure with tomboy on oneiric also?12:47
NET||abuseI have that issue?12:47
NET||abusegets 38 notes, then fails. not clear reason why12:47
oimonthursday...hmm subway for lunch12:49
freakyclownwell......that fucked everything :/13:05
freakyclownmade things worse and then i had to reboot and loose a bunch of work cause i couldnt save what i needed13:05
bigcalm!ohmy | freakyclown13:06
lubotu3`freakyclown: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.13:06
NET||abusehmm, seems ccsm isn't making changes take affect yet13:07
gingfreakyclown: this is 1 of those channels where they won't let me discuss what i did in the toilet13:07
NET||abuseturned on screenshot plugin and set launcher icon sizes down and top left activation zone, none of it working yet.13:07
oimonprobably for the best ging13:08
* freakyclown debates putting ubuntu/unity in the toilet :/13:09
NET||abuseis the gnome shell install on oneiric now compatible with unity? Natty wasn't, you couldn't instal side by side due to conflicts13:10
NET||abuseubuntu uk podcast episode they mentioned gnome shell was in repo's and should just work now13:10
NET||abuseor did they just see it in repo's and didn't think of the conflict scenario?13:10
freakyclownawesome now i have two battery indicators! :/13:12
NET||abusewell uninstall and indicator13:12
NET||abusei have conky running with battery info too13:12
freakyclownNET||abuse: would be easy if i had installed one!13:13
freakyclownthis has just appeared on reboot :/13:13
NET||abuseowwh,13:13
NET||abusewhat'd you install?13:13
freakyclowntons of stuff since last reboot ;)13:14
=== Twinkletoes_ is now known as Twinkletoes
DJonesIts not often I unfollow something/body on twitter, but wikileaks has turned into a propoganda stream for Assange now13:32
BigRedSWhen wasn't it one of them?13:32
DJonesTrue, but at least until recently, it did put info about what it was leaking, now its just about the extradition/rape/paypal/visa claims13:34
morsnowskihi guys13:40
morsnowskiwhy would "sudo chmod -R a=rw /media/truecrypt4/" not change permissions for that folder and it's children13:40
morsnowskiit just doesn't do anything, no error no nothing13:40
ali1234DJones: they stopped leaking things. apparently they have no money to pay people to do redactions13:41
DJonesali1234: Yes, I knew about that13:42
BigRedSmorsnowski: I take it an ls -ld on that directory before and after is the same, adn that's how you're verifying that nothing's changed?13:42
BigRedSwhat sort of filesystem is it in/on?13:42
morsnowskiyes13:42
morsnowskintfs in a truecrypt volume13:42
morsnowskihmm i thnink i made it ntfs, let me check13:43
BigRedSchmod doesn't understand ntfs, I can't remember how you get round that, though. I think you need to specify permissions at mount time?13:44
BigRedSIt's been a long time since I last interfered with an ntfs volume...13:45
morsnowski/dev/dm-0  fuseblk   107768572  46330428  61438144  43% /media/truecrypt413:45
morsnowskiso it's something truecrytinian13:45
jacobwfree graze box →  4MYNPP713:45
morsnowskihmm I'll just mount it under windows and set as open as permissions I can find. lets see what that does . thanks13:46
sadsunhi13:47
BigRedSmorsnowski: that probably wont help - Linux doesn't understand ntfs permissions13:47
jacobwo/ sadsun13:49
* sadsun waves back13:49
jacobwsadsun: i posted 'free graze box →  4MYNPP7' just before you arrived13:53
sadsuno_O whats that?13:54
jacobwsadsun: its a voucher for graze.com that gives you a free box of interesting food13:54
sadsunah I'm in the Netherlands13:54
jacobwah ha13:55
sadsunlooks good though13:55
* sadsun has been considering to become a vegetarian for some time now13:56
* oimon is a vegetarian at breakfast13:56
sadsunlol, thats a start :P13:56
jacobwi'm starting my second attempt at vegetarianism13:57
sadsunit aint easy, thats for sure13:57
jacobwmy last attempt lasted a month, hopefully this one will be better :)13:57
BigRedSwhy are you doing it?13:57
jacobwit feels better, its hard to keep up, like going to the gym or doing kickboxing13:57
oimoni would die of malnutrition if i was vegetarian13:58
sadsuni used to eat ready-meal dinners and the only option is a veg.lasagna when it comes to ready-meals13:58
jacobwi cooked a batch of vegetable curry last night, that should provide a few meals13:59
=== RhysMorgan is now known as Ababcus
popeyoimon: you were asking about linuxprinting.org recently..?14:11
oimonpopey: yes14:11
popeyI just spoke to Till and he said the new server was delivered this week14:11
oimonooh yeah :D14:11
oimonthanks for the info14:11
popeyhe will be given the backups and will reinstall the site14:11
oimonjust checked the site twice today already14:12
popeyand he's setting up a fail over site too, hosted by canonical14:12
oimondidn't relaise how much i relied on it14:12
popeyand an update for jockey to make it check both servers14:12
directhexvegetarianism is fine, as long as you define bacon as a vegetable14:27
BigRedSI do have friends who insist that since pigs are vegetarian, I can eat them14:27
bigcalmDear VM. You suck14:28
MooDooi like vegitarians, just can't eat a whole one14:28
MooDoobad dum tish14:28
bigcalmMorning, davmor214:29
czajkowskiUDS-P Day 3 http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/03/uds-p-day-3/14:29
davmor2morning bigcalm14:30
MooDooczajkowski: hope you're having a good time davmor2 and czajkowski and popey :)14:30
davmor2MooDoo: too busy but fun14:30
MooDoodavmor2: well don't work too hard14:30
czajkowskiindeed14:31
oimonwhere does apt-get source download files to?14:32
davmor2oimon: where ever it is told to14:32
ali1234the current directory14:33
bigcalmI fear that trying to send an email is asking too much of VirginMedia today :(14:33
oimonali1234: thanks14:33
oimoni had a version of foomatic from 2010 , but was unsure if that was the one apt-get had got14:33
oimonneed to compile a ppd file :-\14:34
bigcalmWhat's the difference between the CSD and the PWD?14:34
oimonwhat's a csd14:38
matttafternoon14:39
bigcalmCurrent Selected Directory14:40
deej1976!info csd14:40
lubotu3`Package csd does not exist in natty14:40
deej1976!csd14:40
bigcalmIt's not a package, it's a location14:40
oimonhow can i create a PPD from the XML?14:44
dogmatic69:O14:50
dogmatic69i done cat some.pdf and now shell is bust...14:50
dogmatic69[┬┐_␤├└┌_├⎺_⎻␍° ␍␊┴␊┌⎺⎻ ⚡] $14:50
BigRedSdogmatic69: type 'reset' and hit enter14:54
=== RhysMorgan is now known as Ababcus
ubuntuuk-planet[Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 3 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/03/uds-p-day-3/15:05
smittix:/15:05
BigRedSI tidied up my home directory this morning15:05
BigRedSIt actually feels teh same now as if I'd tidied my desk15:06
BigRedSit's awesome15:06
smittixHave some people never heard of Archives. A user has a 15gb Mailbox15:06
smittixExchange is crying15:06
BigRedSHave some people never heard of mail servers? smittix is running Exchange!15:06
BigRedS:)15:06
smittixNot me personally15:06
smittix:)15:06
BigRedShaha, yeah. I remember the fun of enforcing archiving-to-pst15:07
smittixWe just hit the 75gb Mailstore limit15:07
smittixExchange fell over - fun times.15:07
MooDooyay15:09
* smittix is playing with KDE15:10
BigRedSI pondered trying that KDE 3 fork the other day15:10
BigRedSEither I'll like that, or I'm just viewing old things through rose-tinted specs15:11
jacobwrose tinted specs15:11
BigRedSjacobw: yeah, having hunted down the old version, it usually turns out to be that :(15:12
jacobwsuperkaramba was ahead of its time15:12
BigRedSKDE4 seemed alright until I noticed the combination of needing a big amount of configuring to work, and a tendency to forget that config between sessions15:12
jacobwi used to be a kde fan before the long wait to 4.015:12
jacobwi care much more about applications, most applications are written in GTK and gnome2/gnome3/unity provide me with a good way to switch focus between applications :)15:13
DJonesINteresting http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42867/commodore-64-extreme-model-launched quad core, i7, 8Gb ram, 2Tb HDD & running Mint15:16
jacobw:o15:17
smittixthat reminds me.15:23
smittixAmiga has there own tablets15:23
sadsunuh c64... the good old days :)15:23
BigRedSjacobw: yeah, I've noticed that the only three things I require of my DE are ctrl+alt+arrow to move workspaces, alt+f2 and a wifi configurator15:24
oimonbad time to buy spare disks :(15:29
smittixMy favourite game was on the Amiga, "Valhalla"15:33
AzelphurI was about 5 in the days of the amiga :D15:36
AzelphurI remember going into my brothers bedroom with premade breakfast and chanting "big car game!" until he woke up and played jaguar XJ220 with me :p15:36
shaunoI still have mine.  there's more games available for it than there is my mac ;)15:36
oimoni have an amiga mammoth memory module at home for some reason15:37
oimonanyone still have an amiga?15:37
AzelphurI also used to love lemmings, wasn't actually old enough to play it, I just used to press the nuke button and giggle manically when they all exploded xD15:37
shaunoI still have my 1200, but I can't seem to populate any more ram.  if I do, I can't address the pcmcia slot15:38
DJonesAzelphur: Lemmings was good, I also liked Choplifter on the Apple II's15:38
oimonit's a a500 RAM expansion15:38
Azelphurhehe15:38
shaunoah; the other half-a-meg which pops in the bomb bay?15:38
oimonyes15:39
Azelphurand on gauntlet I used to sit there pressing up and down on the character select screen, so it'd be like wiz-warr-wiz-warr, \o/15:39
shaunoyeah.  mine has 4MB & a new cpu in that bay :)15:39
oimon4mb..wow15:39
oimonyou must be single, right?15:39
oimoni had 10 PCs in my house before i got married15:40
shaunomy amiga lasted longer than my marriage, but I'm not sure it could take sole blame15:40
oimon:(15:40
DJonesoimon: You should have just moved them into the loft, they'd never get disturbed then15:40
oimoni didn't have a loft at the time, but i would now15:41
oimonthere is a g4 powerbook up there that lasted a week on me...why i still have it?15:41
DJonesI think I've got a Dell Poweredge server case & motherboard in mine, must be a good 10 years old, every other bit of it has been canibalised15:45
oimonmy airfix models are up there :(15:46
oimonand books15:46
DJonesI do have an office/computer room with 2 working desktops, 2 laptops, 2 desktops (not set up), 2 printers .....15:47
oimonmy toddler walks past his old bedroom and points and says "DADA"15:53
oimonyes, it's daddy study now :)15:53
MooDoomy 3 year old says the reason there are no mermaids is that the dinosaurs ate them all15:54
DJonesMooDoo: How does the 3 year old explain there not being any dinosours left now16:02
=== RhysMorgan is now known as Ababcus
Seeker`DJones: mermaids are poisonous of course!16:08
jacobwhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Lies-Tell-Small-Kids/dp/034083405616:09
Seeker`I once told my brother that milk was poisonous just after he finished a big glass of milk :D16:10
oimoni was shocked to see that the mermaids on bagpuss had boobies16:10
oimonthe ones on mr benn don't16:10
jacobwSeeker`: that's cold :o16:13
Seeker`yup, milk was right out of the fridge :P16:14
Seeker`I told him the truth a minute or two later16:14
jacobwlol16:14
jacobwlightning :o16:22
=== optimusP is now known as the_hulk
ubuntuuk-planet[Jono Bacon] Leadership Summit Part Two Today - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/03/leadership-summit-part-two-today/17:05
ubuntuuk-planet[Andrew] LetMetRead : Google Reader - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/letmetread-google-reader/18:05
davmor2czajkowski: behave or I'll rip your arm off and beat you with the soggy end18:05
TheOpenSourcererHa - go to google and type "do a barrel roll"18:06
gorddavmor2, behave :P18:08
bigcalmTheOpenSourcerer: gah!18:10
AlanBellhttp://mrdoob.com/projects/chromeexperiments/google_gravity/18:11
bigcalmVery clever18:13
AlanBellsecure boot UDS session about to start if people are interested18:32
AlanBellvlc http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grandsierra-d.ogg.m3u to listen in18:33
popeycan you tweet that?18:33
AlanBelltwote it18:34
* MartijnVdS hears nothing18:37
AlanBellpopey: what happened to the audio18:37
MartijnVdS\o/ audios18:37
AlanBellback18:37
PendulumMartijnVdS: there was no audio at that moment18:37
Pendulumthe room was incredibly quiet18:37
AlanBellit faded out on the applause :)18:38
* smittix has python woes.18:39
* mgdm is attempting to use ctypes to wrap a library he wrote18:39
mgdmThough I've just realised that the bit of hardware I want to drive doesn't work on the Mac, which is what I'm using18:40
jacobwwhat's up smittix ?18:40
jacobwyoutube's layout has changed19:05
=== Pendulum_ is now known as Pendulum
smittixjacobw: just getting to grips with it. Trying to create a pop up dialog to ask if the user really wants to quit. heh19:07
AzelphurMy brother says a desk like this won't take much weight, http://www.outlawdesignblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2770294049_635dde0069.jpg19:12
Azelphurthoughts? I think it will o.O19:12
BigRedSDepends on teh size of much19:13
BigRedSbut it hardly looks weaker than any other desk19:13
AzelphurBigRedS: yea, but I'm planning on putting a super heavyweight computer on it (steel, 4 hdds, dual gpus, water cooling with 480mm rad), along with quad screen and lots of other heavy stuff19:14
Azelphurso it's really gotta take a beating19:14
BigRedSif someone else is making it, get the specs from them, if you are, just reinforce it appropriately19:15
BigRedSor stick the PC on the floor...19:15
Azelphuryea, my brother found a local carpenter that was LFW19:15
ali1234it depends what kind of qood you make it out of19:18
ali1234wood19:18
ali1234Azelphur: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/IMAG0080.jpg19:24
ali1234that's a proper desk :)19:24
Azelphur:o19:25
Azelphurthat is a propr desk.19:25
BigRedSI ike the vice19:25
AzelphurI think it would be a bit too small for me though19:25
ali1234lolll19:25
ali1234its huge though19:25
AzelphurIt's nearly swamped with 3, what are those 17" monitors?19:25
AzelphurI have 4 26"19:25
ali1234yeah but you probably don't have a solder rework station and a 32 port switch19:26
Azelphurtrue19:26
smittixYou guys should think yourself lucky19:26
smittixMy desk is my knee19:26
Azelphurthe desk I already have is about the same size of that, just without the cool keyboard tray19:26
Azelphurand it's really cramped19:26
* BigRedS wonders if smittix is Santa19:26
smittixheh19:26
Azelphurand my monitors are basically like | __ __ |19:26
AzelphurxD19:27
smittixI once had an office until my daughter came along.19:27
jacobw2 up 2 down?19:27
smittixYeah,19:27
smittixUp for sale too so I can get an office back!19:27
smittixBut then another child will come along and take control of it.19:28
smittixNeed to make sure it already has a study19:28
jacobwha, i was talking about Azelphur's depiction of his monitors19:31
Azelphurjacobw: nah, I have a standard rectangular desk, and 2 monitors take up about 70% of the desk space19:31
Azelphurso I have them widescreen, but the only way they'll fit on is with 2 monitors practically sideways19:32
smittixjacobw: HEH! thought you meant my house19:32
smittixwhich was correct anyway19:32
smittixI have some how messed my version number up using quickly :/ https://launchpad.net/autostart-changer19:32
jacobwi should get more involved in ubuntu19:33
tonytigerdo it!19:34
ali1234the superliminal technique19:36
jacobw?19:36
* jacobw pokes launchpad19:37
ali1234http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xx4BsBr2fU19:37
BigRedSOoh. Apparently I've earned the tumbleweed badge on serverfault19:39
matttif anyone is in/around datchet, don't order the large cod from drunken fish20:18
* mattt goes to die20:18
bigcalmDrunken cook?20:20
=== gary_ is now known as Guest5604
AlanBellAzelphur: and others with multi monitors -> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19457/desktop-p-multi-monitor/22:27
AlanBellI would like some people to get involved in localised isos http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19613/community-p-localized-iso-community-growth/22:31
AlanBellso we could have an image that installs without Americanisms22:31
diploI'd be up for that AlanBell22:31
AlanBellcool, from what I have read there are scripts that kind of just do it, based on the translations that are available22:32
AlanBellhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/LocalizedImagesRollout22:33
AlanBellI put myself down as the contact but I really don't have time to actually do it22:33
diplo'The Queens English'22:33
diplo:D22:33
AzelphurAlanBell: blank etherpad is blank?22:38
smittixinteresting22:38
AlanBellAzelphur: yes, the session is tomorrow!22:38
Azelphurah :)22:38
Azelphurtbh all the limitations in multi monitor support are in the driver22:38
AlanBelloh, plenty of limitations in unity design too22:39
gordthere is no unity design for multi-monitor :) at least as of right now22:39
gordwe did the best we could to get something working, but there is always more we want to do22:39
AzelphurAlanBell: ah yea, that's somewhat true, limitations ie "It doesn't work at all"22:40
Azelphurwhich is why I switched to XFCE in 11.1022:40
AlanBellunity kind of works over two monitors for me22:41
diploDidn't work for me at all22:42
AzelphurIf you have separate X screens, it doesn't initialise the desktop environment on anything but :022:42
Azelphurwhich means, you just get a white background and a black X pointer, that's it.22:42
diploWent back to 10.10 on desktop, started using win7 on lappy22:42
AlanBelloh, I have one X screen22:42
Azelphuryea22:42
AlanBelllaptop + hdmi port to largeish monitor22:43
AlanBellit is better than 11.04 was22:43
AzelphurAlanBell: it's pretty much what i've always said, if your dual screen your fine and everybody likes you22:43
Azelphurbut if you use more than 2, most people will tell you to go away.22:43
AlanBellno, it is still broken on two screens22:43
AlanBelljust not as broken as it used to be22:43
AzelphurAlanBell: yea but "partially broken" and "Doesn't work at all and is entirely unsupported" are leagues apart22:44
AlanBellthey were demoing a 6 monitor rig at UDS a couple of days ago22:44
AlanBelljust trying to find the articles about it22:44
Azelphuryea, you'll probably find that was ATI powered22:44
Azelphuror that they used xinerama which means no compiz/composite22:44
diploAzelphur, mine was broke on natty on my laptop with a ATI card22:45
diplonot tried Oneric on that laptop yet22:45
diploBook marked those links AlanBell, will take a look at work tomorrow22:46
AlanBellgreat22:46
AlanBelladd 4 hours to the times22:46
diplotbh I've moved to Gnome3 at home and got to say I prefer it over Unity so far, more responsive and less buggy for me so far22:49
diploI was crashing 2-3 times a night, and just couldn't find what the issue was22:49
AlanBellhttp://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1373/detail/22:56
AlanBellnottingham happy hour could do with more attendees :)22:56
diploReally would like to make that, but can get up there as I'm visiting headoffice 2 weeks later22:57
diploCan't ask to come twice :D22:57
diploHave to wait for a more local one22:57
AlanBelltonytiger: pingaling22:59
AlanBellAzelphur: picture http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/ubuntu-desktop-designers-clarify-on-configurability/23:06
AlanBellthere was a rather bad video of it too somewhere23:06
diploGood night all23:07
Azelphurhehe23:07
AlanBellno idea what they had driving it, or what they said about it, but I think it is good that they are contemplating the problem23:08
AlanBellfundamental stuff like you are working on an app in the bottom right screen and you want to launch a text editor and you have to go to the top left screen to get to the launcher23:09
AlanBellat least you should now have a menu on the same monitor as the application23:09
AlanBelleven though I think global menus are just a broken concept23:10
jacobw!politics23:17
lubotu3`Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!23:17
hamitrondid i miss a nice arguement? :/23:18
jacobwnope, just me wanting to know which was the politics channel23:26

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