[07:55] <DJones> Morning all
[08:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/resource-library/open-source-procurement-toolkit
[08:17] <diplo> Morning all
[08:19] <_jane> Morning diplo
[08:20] <_jane> I am affected by the bug #851055 tracked  at lauchpad
[08:20] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 851055 in lightdm (Ubuntu Oneiric) "[Oneiric] 'Not Authorized' error given when mounting device" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/851055
[08:20] <_jane> lubotu3`: yes, that it
[08:20] <_jane> the status is "fix released"
[08:21] <AlanBell> yay, they finally published the toolkit
[08:22] <_jane> I am not sure how I get access to the update. Just a apt-get update was not enough
[08:22] <_serial_> apt-get upgrade?
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hey - A Cabinet Office document espousing the Four Freedoms :-)
[08:25] <daubers> Morning
[08:26] <diplo> Anyone know if I can run Gnome 3.2 on 10.10 ?
[08:26] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: wonder how that got there ;)
[08:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:27] <_jane> _serial_: I will try that. Cheers!
[08:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh. On Open Standards: "have intellectual property made irrevocably available on a royalty free basis..."
[08:30] <AlanBell> and Ubuntu gets a mention in the options catalog
[08:31] <AlanBell> and Alfresco and OpenERP
[08:43] <daubers> Anyone had experience of HP probooks?
[08:44] <diplo> I'm using one right here daubers
[08:44] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: they very nearly required open standards to be publicly available for free too, but bizarely I had to hold them back from that one
[08:44] <daubers> diplo: Any good? Thinking of getting one to replace my desktop at work
[08:44] <AlanBell> didn't want the BSI to challenge the whole definition because they couldn't charge £80 for a bit of paper
[08:45] <diplo> Windows/Ubuntu ?
[08:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just looking through the Options doc.
[08:45] <daubers> diplo: Will be dual booted
[08:45] <daubers> AlanBell: Is that the stuff you where consulting on?
[08:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Good stuff in general. But they still talk about it like a COTS.
[08:45] <AlanBell> the plan is to keep updating the options document over time
[08:45] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not much on engagement.
[08:45] <diplo> I dual boot, but rarely go into ubuntu as I just can't get setup right
[08:45] <diplo> Part to do with ATI GFX card in it I think
[08:45] <daubers> diplo: In what way?
[08:46] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: yes, that was kind of intentional, it is aimed at people already in "product" mode thinking
[08:46] <diplo> I use dual screens a lot and can't get it to work very well
[08:46] <daubers> Hmmm... I'd be doing that more or less every day.
[08:46] <diplo> Also, it Ubuntu ( not tried other OS's yet ) don't seem to control the fans very well
[08:46] <diplo> in*
[08:46] <AlanBell> daubers: I may have had a tiny bit of influence in a few areas :)
[08:46] <diplo> So they spin up a lot more than in Windows
[08:47] <daubers> diplo: Have you got the one with a quad amd in it?
[08:47] <daubers> AlanBell: Heh :)
[08:48] <daubers> Wonder what part of the kernel actually controls the fans
[08:48] <daubers> Must be something like ACPI
[08:49] <diplo> yeah, did a fair bit of looking 6 months or so ago, and I do think it can be fixed but I had spent so much time on it already
[08:49] <diplo> It's the i3 ( my company are skin flints on hardware )
[08:49] <diplo> :/
[08:49] <daubers> Ah, I know a company who do ex demo/reconditioned stuff, so the quad AMD is about £400
[08:50] <diplo> i3 M350 @ 2.27ghz
[08:50] <diplo> Nice, cheaper than my new one
[08:50] <diplo> I'd have been happy with that
[08:50] <daubers> THis is a Phenom II N930 ' 2.0GHz
[08:51] <_serial_> you can get refurb (dell) from http://www.mcscom.co.uk/ for quite cheap
[08:51] <daubers> Be tempted to try and wangle a dock as well (£80 odd from the same place)
[08:53] <diplo> I do like the laptop daubers, just got fed up of getting things right I guess.. really wanted an Intel chipset as they always just work for me
[08:54] <ubuntubhoy> Morning guys, can anyone help remove the config files for OnBoard keyboard ?
[08:54] <daubers> diplo: I'm a bit bored of stuff "just work"ing
[08:55] <daubers> fancy getting my hands dirty getting stuff to work again
[08:56] <MooDoo> _serial_: i use mark at msccom.co.uk :)   got one of my desktops from there
[08:56] <daubers> I do wish AMD had something like the Intel Ark
[08:57] <Myrtti> moin
[08:57] <_serial_> MooDoo: cool :)  yup mark very friendly and helpful,
[08:59] <smittix> Morning
[09:01] <MooDoo> morning smittix
[09:02] <bigcalm> Good morning, peeps :)
[09:07] <AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: which bit of the config? your personal preferences?
[09:07] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[09:08] <ubuntubhoy> screen position to be exact
[09:08] <ubuntubhoy> managed to move the right hand side off screen somehow
[09:08] <ubuntubhoy> so the move icon is off screen
[09:08] <AlanBell> oh heck, and alt+click drag doesn't work
[09:09] <ubuntubhoy> nope
[09:09] <ubuntubhoy> plus it has no window border
[09:09] <AlanBell> are you running the version in oneiric-proposed?
[09:10] <AlanBell> didn't think that had been fully released yet
[09:10] <ubuntubhoy> hmm, maybe
[09:10] <ubuntubhoy> probably infact
[09:11] <ubuntubhoy> I deleted onboard, purged onboard, autoremoved stray libs, deleted onboard .folder, and deleted onboard folder from .config, and .gconf
[09:12] <ubuntubhoy> still remembers the position
[09:12] <AlanBell> yeah, it isn't an onboard configuration as such
[09:12] <AlanBell> window manager somewhere
[09:13] <ubuntubhoy> If only Newrez worked in oneiric, would be a simple workaround to move it back
[09:13] <AlanBell> I was going to file a bug about the scanning layout not being draggable, but this is another situation where the lack of title bar is a bit inconvenient
[09:14] <ubuntubhoy> even just a position option in the prefs app would work
[09:14] <ubuntubhoy> or reset to defaults
[09:15] <AlanBell> running unity 3d?
[09:15] <ubuntubhoy> nah, Gnome Shell
[09:17] <AlanBell> with compiz?
[09:17] <ubuntubhoy> dont think Shell uses it by default, and I have not set it
[09:18] <AlanBell> hmm, ok. For reference, with compiz in ccsm you can use the place windows plugin to set windows to start centred rather than "smart"
[09:19] <ubuntubhoy> let me install fusion-icon and see if it will switch to compiz
[09:19] <BigRedS> I don't think you can do Gnome-shell + compiz
[09:19] <ubuntubhoy> neither did I
[09:20] <ubuntubhoy> will soon find out how much it breaks it
[09:22] <ubuntubhoy> Fusion-icon claims it has compiz running, installing CCSM
[09:22] <AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: want me to file the bug?
[09:23] <ubuntubhoy> yeah, will be handy if someone else manages to push it off screen
[09:24] <AlanBell> I will make sure it is fixed somehow before that version escapes from -proposed into the main repos
[09:26] <ubuntubhoy> no joy with the compiz plugin
[09:26] <ubuntubhoy> still starts in position
[09:27] <ubuntubhoy> will just have to use Florence or the default Shell on-screen keyboard
[09:33] <JamesTait> Happy Thursday, everyone! *8O)
[09:33] <AlanBell> for anyone looking at the open source options catalog https://docs.google.com/#folders/0B2vdKVZndUC0YThlODVkNGQtMDJiMi00OGUyLWIxYjktNWUyNWRlZTY3YThl
[09:34] <AlanBell> feel free to email Tariq with changes you want to it
[09:34] <ali1234> link doesn't work
[09:34] <ali1234> oh, now it does
[09:34] <AlanBell> http://bit.ly/hDuFEG < does that one work?
[09:35] <AlanBell> ok, in the readme is his email address at the Home Office
[09:36] <AlanBell> he would love to hear feedback about the document and if you have additional free software products you would like to see on the list he is very likely to add them
[09:37] <AlanBell> the list has been kicking about since february this year
[09:44] <BigRedS> I do like how much free software stuff is hosted on google docs
[09:47] <AlanBell> it is good for co-editing stuff that is more formatted than etherpad can do
[09:48] <AlanBell> and you can export in odf formats for final formatting in LibreOffice
[09:48] <BigRedS> yeah, it just seems a bit, well, non-free. Not that there's huge amounts in the way of alternatives at the minute
[09:49] <AlanBell> yeah, when LibreOffice rendering to HTML 5 canvas hosted on Ubuntu One happens we will probably use that
[09:50] <AlanBell> dunno if that will support co-editing though
[09:51] <BigRedS> I imagine at some point it will. seems an inevitable feature really
[09:51] <AlanBell> I have suggested that ODF needs to be extended with a protocol for co-editing
[09:52] <AlanBell> so you would send ODF fragments and xpath locations over some kind of transport (telepathy or jabber or whatever) and they would be inserted at the other end
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting MQTT going to Eclipse... www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/11/ibm-open-sources-potential-int.php
[09:53] <AlanBell> so you could have a bunch of people working together on different ODF supporting desktop clients all co-editing the same document via some kind of coordinating server
[09:54] <TheOpenSourcerer> There was a working "mockup" of OOo using a Wiki backend to do just this a couple of years back.
[09:55] <AlanBell> there was, not sure it was ODF based or at the UNO api level, or just wrote the whole document to the wiki
[09:56] <AlanBell> how does MQTT going to eclipse make any sense whatsoever??
[09:56] <ali1234> that's what i was just wondering
[09:56] <oimon> are canonical missing a trick by not making a lightweight version with the raspberry pi guys? that thing could sell over a million units
[09:56] <deej1976> https://abicollab.net/
[09:56] <ali1234> probably
[09:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's a foundation (although a very IBM centric one) so control is less one-vendor driven.
[09:57] <AlanBell> ok, so they are handing control of MQTT to the Eclipse foundation and it has nothing to do with the Eclipse software
[09:57] <AlanBell> they want to make it more like the Apache foundation I guess
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> It gives it more independance
[09:58] <TheOpenSourcerer> Might also be submitted to OASIS for ratification a little birdy tells me.
[09:59] <AlanBell> oimon: no, for a couple of reasons, but if the raspberry pi does a hardware revision next year to a more current generation of ARM processor then it will probably run Ubuntu
[09:59] <AlanBell> but if they do that they need to make a whole bunch of components on the board more expensive
[10:00] <oimon> AlanBell: sure, although it might be a bit late for them to switch distro then
[10:00] <AlanBell> no, not at all
[10:00] <AlanBell> the thing has SD card storage and the idea is you have a bunch of them, not "this is my computer and it's operating system"
[10:01] <ali1234> ubuntu is unsuited to running on hardware like that anyway
[10:01] <AlanBell> that too
[10:01] <ali1234> it doesn't have enough memory either
[10:01] <AlanBell> well, just needs a bit more memory and a tiny bit more grunt
[10:01] <ali1234> no
[10:02] <ali1234> it needs probably at least 4x as much memory and 2x as much CPU to run ubuntu reasonably
[10:02] <ali1234> by reasonably i mean it boots before the class ends
[10:02] <oimon> aren't they building an ARM fedora for it?
[10:02] <ali1234> no, they are just using the regular ARM fedora
[10:03] <ali1234> it is a lot easier to customize a fedora install and remove the useless parts
[10:03] <oimon> that's why i was thinking of a ligtwieght ubuntu - more of a branding opportunity than the full ubuntu experience
[10:03] <AlanBell> yes, by "a bit more memory" I meant just a gig or two and a bit more grunt just another core and a few hundred mhz :)
[10:03] <oimon> this thing coudl be huge
[10:04] <ali1234> the effort required to make a lightweight ubuntu...
[10:04] <ali1234> it isn't worth it
[10:04] <ali1234> it wouldn't be ubuntu any more
[10:04] <ali1234> first thing that would need t go would be unity
[10:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> erm. It's called debian.
[10:05] <ali1234> yeah exactly
[10:05] <ali1234> it uses debian already
[10:05] <iclebyte> unity is gash for want of a better term
[10:05] <BigRedS> Oh not this again. Isn't there something new to complain about?
[10:05] <BigRedS> Ah! The google reader interface!
[10:05] <BigRedS> we can do that
[10:06] <MooDoo> ali1234: fedora o/ :)
[10:06] <oimon> however if it used "ubuntu diet" version..
[10:06] <ali1234> there is no such thing
[10:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> BigRedS: I'm annoyed at the Google Reader Gadget in iGoogle. Lost all the Tags :-)
[10:07] <oimon> my point is that it might have been worth the effort to do it to increase exposure - this thing will be popular in schools globally
[10:07] <BigRedS> To be fair, I don't use Google reader, so I'm not sure. I just heard ranting from behind me yesterday from someone who does :)
[10:08] <oimon> i would like to use google reader but liferea doesn't support it grrr
[10:08] <shauno> I'd rather see the bbc put a face on it.  painting debian purple just for the sake of squeezing your branding where it doesn't belong, doesn't sound terribly productive
[10:08] <ubuntubhoy> AlanBell, FYI installed the non proposed OnBoard, and it starts as it should
[10:08] <ali1234> the question is, does ubuntu want to be known as "the slow operating system that ruined the raspberry pi by being unusable"
[10:08] <oimon> it would be nice to see the owl on it :P
[10:08] <ubuntubhoy> what was really weird with the proposed version is it even remembered the theme
[10:08] <BigRedS> oimon: Would it be worthwhile if the standard Ubuntu was completely different to the 'lightweight' one?
[10:08] <AlanBell> ali1234: no, which is why I told them to take Ubuntu off their marketing material
[10:09] <oimon> BigRedS: possibly as the pi will get into new markets not previously reached..i guess others disagree though
[10:09] <AlanBell> well actually because it wasn't going to run at all on ARM 6 instruction set
[10:09] <ali1234> and it hasn't done for a long time
[10:09] <daubers> Hmmm... not good http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/03/disk_drive_prices_may_double/
[10:09] <AlanBell> ubuntubhoy: bug 885608
[10:09] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 885608 in onboard (Ubuntu) "if you manage to get onboard move button offscreen you can't get it back" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/885608
[10:09] <BigRedS> oimon: but what's teh point if it's not the ubuntu anyone's going to use? It might as well be Debian or whatever
[10:10] <ubuntubhoy> cheers
[10:10] <oimon> BigRedS:  rom my POV i don't care as long as it's linux.
[10:10] <oimon> /rom/from
[10:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Well Windows CE wouldn't really work very well would it? ;-) And it would double (or more) the price.
[10:11] <ali1234> ubuntu is no longer meant to be installed by the user anyway
[10:12] <oimon> ali1234: not true, otherwise they wouldn't insist on fitting on the CD and making an excellent installer
[10:12] <gord> back home from uds now :) was really great this year and i was only there for 2.5 days!
[10:12] <ali1234> the installer is all about configuring the user
[10:12] <AlanBell> with the Raspberry Pi you would have a stack of SD cards, maybe cards with a Linux From Scratch project, Debian, Fedora, Debian/Hurd, minix, BeOS etc.
[10:13] <ali1234> the actual installation part is entirely automated and the user has no control
[10:13] <AlanBell> it isn't supposed to have a permanently installed boot disk
[10:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh. Yeah - LFS 7 was released yesterday
[10:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> Although technicall AlanBell on the Pi it would need to be CLFS
[10:13] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: what is that? cross compiled?
[10:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah
[10:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> LFS is x86
[10:14] <ali1234> i don't see why you would have all your cards running a different distro
[10:14] <ali1234> just pick one and then make cards for each task
[10:14] <AlanBell> you certainly could do that too
[10:14] <ali1234> most kids will probably end up with 1 card for each class that uses it
[10:15] <ali1234> which means they'll probably have 1 card for word processing, and 1 card for whatever programming class
[10:15] <ali1234> however given the size of sd cards now, those can probably be put on 1 card
[10:15] <AlanBell> I know they want to do a card that boots up a BBC micro emulator
[10:16] <ali1234> lol
[10:16]  * BigRedS would buy that
[10:16] <ali1234> well good luck licencing the roms
[10:16] <AlanBell> they want the BBC to publish that card
[10:16] <oimon> would kids need a pc in their room if web browsing and openoffice work OK on the pi?
[10:16] <ali1234> yes
[10:17] <ali1234> web browsing won't work well on it
[10:17] <oimon> have you seen the demos?
[10:17] <ali1234> yes
[10:17] <ali1234> and i am also familiar with the hardware
[10:17]  * AlanBell has seen one
[10:17] <BigRedS> flash for arm?
[10:17] <ali1234> and i have worked on ARM distros for a couple of years
[10:18] <ali1234> yes, flash will be the big problem, flash for ARM totally sucks
[10:18] <AlanBell> it will work as badly as an android browser on a slow arm smart phone
[10:18] <ali1234> and the next biggest problem will be getting a real browser to run in such tiny amount of memory
[10:18] <AlanBell> except you will be running it at a higher resolution
[10:19] <ali1234> then there's that whole, "i'm word processing a report and i need to check something on google" problem
[10:20] <AlanBell> functional, but not enjoyable if you have expectations formed from a modern desktop or laptop
[10:20] <ali1234> where you have to reboot, swap cards, wait 5 minutes for it to boot, check google, reboot, swap cards, wait 5 minutes for it to boot back into the word processor
[10:20] <ali1234> (if you use this crazy idea of lots of different cards)
[10:21] <BigRedS> Nobody is going to do that
[10:21] <oimon> how about running free-nx on it and using as a thin client :)
[10:21] <oimon> to daddy's PC
[10:21] <AlanBell> it isi not a desktop computer. It is a platform for doing interesting things in computing.
[10:21] <BigRedS> I thought the bulk of the point of it was that it's a project base, not a PC?
[10:21] <BigRedS> It doesn't need to run Firefox or flash or whatever, just vi and Perl
[10:22] <BigRedS> or whatever
[10:22] <oimon> quake3 runs ok on it :)
[10:22] <oimon> ok/well/
[10:22] <ali1234> quake3 has minimal system requirements
[10:22] <ali1234> it has already been ported to opengl|es for example
[10:22] <ali1234> and it is like 10 years old
[10:22] <AlanBell> if you think of it as a high powered arduino you are in the right place with your expectations
[10:23] <BigRedS> oimon: yeah, quake 3 runs on my 1995 thinkpad
[10:23] <ali1234> everyone always ports quake3 because it is so easy
[10:23] <BigRedS> Firefox doesn't
[10:23] <oimon> personally i am thinking of an upgrade to my nslu2 , but thinking about other uses
[10:23] <ali1234> nslu
[10:23] <ali1234> aren't those arm?
[10:23] <ali1234> or mips?
[10:24] <oimon> ARM
[10:24] <oimon> 32MB RAM , 266mhz ARM xscale
[10:25] <shauno> I have wondered that; whether this pi business has gumstix terrified
[10:25] <ali1234> hopefully
[10:25] <ali1234> gumstix is a total rip off
[10:26] <ali1234> theyare all about making boards that are only compatible with each other and selling them for 200% more than a generic board
[10:29] <oimon> i wonder what the profit margin is on the pi
[10:30] <AlanBell> barely anything
[10:30] <BigRedS> that's the point, I thought?
[10:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Raspberry Pi is a charity and a NFP
[10:35] <oimon> ah, thanks for the clarification.
[10:35] <oimon> they are good guys :)
[11:00] <oimon> spent 10 mins trying to navigate the menus for my car insurer :(
[11:01] <oimon> on the phone
[11:04] <BigRedS> Anyone know how to configure an Amazon EC2 alert so that if *any* instance (ideally of a given type) meet the criteria it'll alert, rather than just an aggregation of them?
[11:08] <oimon> RMS speaking in east london tonight @ goldsmiths college
[11:08] <oimon> http://castlondon.com/events/stallman.html
[11:10] <MooDoo> oimon: he spoke at nottingham, the about of "he's a sh**" feedback i got was imense
[11:12] <BigRedS> It's odd how as free software's become more acceptable to everyone else, he seems to have become less acceptable to free softwary people
[11:16] <oimon> i wonder if you have to be that kind of character? simon phipps preaches a similar message but doesn't cause as much offence
[11:57] <freakyclown> guys, my notification area in unity in 11.10 has stopped kinda working
[11:57] <freakyclown> whats there already i can use, but if i open up something new it does appear there
[11:57] <freakyclown> is there a quick way to reset it?
[12:11] <AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/2011-11-03/ UDS starts in 50 minutes or so, live audio streams available from the rooms, and you can talk back over IRC, ask if you see anything interesting and want help getting set up to participate
[12:15] <ali1234> AlanBell: the schedule page is really hard to read :(
[12:16] <oimon> +1
[12:16] <AlanBell> I know
[12:16] <oimon> took a while before i realised the times were on the LHS
[12:16] <oimon> in size 2
[12:16] <NET||abuse> hmm, so anyone know of a solution to oneiric and pulse audio streaming?
[12:16] <AlanBell> everyone is a bit scared of the code that generates it
[12:17] <oimon> lol
[12:17] <oimon> wow, the descriptions are size 0
[12:17] <ali1234> yeah exactly
[12:17] <NET||abuse> i have a natty laptop and an oneiric desktop without speakers or accessible headphone jack
[12:17] <oimon> compiz zoom FTW
[12:17] <NET||abuse> so want to stream all desktop audio to laptop.
[12:17] <ali1234> 4pm UK time: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19502/community-p-ux-participation/
[12:17] <NET||abuse> but pavdevchooser isn't in oneiric anymore
[12:18] <NET||abuse> so how can i select my laptop as the pulse audio device?
[12:18] <NET||abuse> pavdev? padevchooser
[12:18] <NET||abuse> :P
[12:20] <AlanBell> oimon: click the little pen+pad icon to read the descriptions at a more sensible size
[12:20] <ali1234> then at 7pm: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19794/design-p-unity-benchmark-testing-results/
[12:21] <AlanBell> great, absolutly pile on and beat the unity devs :)
[12:21] <AlanBell> nicely of course, but do give your feedback
[12:21] <ali1234> and 8pm: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19612/community-p-dev-outreach/
[12:22] <AlanBell> there is also a 15 minute talk on UEFI and Secure Boot at 18:30
[12:22] <ali1234> i don't see what anyone can do about that
[12:22] <ali1234> the only circumstances under which i would even turn it on are if i can choose the key
[12:23] <AlanBell> nothing at all can be done technically, but I think they will say what they are doing to get OEMs to allow you to choose the key http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19245/plenary-uefi/
[12:23] <AlanBell> plus what they are going to do to provide a signed grub I guess
[12:24] <ali1234> i want self signing or nothing
[12:24] <NET||abuse> in oneiric, how do i change the popout menu behaviour, there's no obvious settings for it in System settings.
[12:24] <AlanBell> NET||abuse: I think you are supposed to like it :)
[12:24] <ali1234> whats a pop out menu?
[12:24] <AlanBell> there are sessions on making unity more customisable
[12:24] <ali1234> i've heard of pop up menus
[12:25] <AlanBell> the right click on a launcher item menu?
[12:25] <NET||abuse> i tend to use synergy, and the menu is causing some glitchyness, so wan tto turn off having it pop from mousing onto the left edge to just the left upper corner
[12:25] <ali1234> ah launcher reveal
[12:25] <NET||abuse> actually in natty the customization was all through ccsm i think
[12:25] <NET||abuse> hmm, would have to install ccsm in oneiric
[12:25] <ali1234> it still is afaik
[12:26] <AlanBell> ccsm, unity plugin, reveal mode
[12:26] <NET||abuse> ah yeh, i looked for that before, and ccsm isn't in repos.
[12:26] <NET||abuse> :(
[12:26] <ali1234> sure it is
[12:26] <ali1234> i have it installed :/
[12:26] <NET||abuse> oh, i was looking for literally ccsm
[12:26] <AlanBell> ccsm isn't the package name
[12:26] <NET||abuse> forgot the package is called compizconfig-settings-manager
[12:26] <ali1234> use the launcher application lens
[12:26] <ali1234> just enter "compiz" and it will find it
[12:26] <ali1234> click to install through software centre
[12:27] <ali1234> this stuff works quite well now
[12:27] <AlanBell> NET||abuse: glad you found that, I can never remember where the hyphens go!
[12:27] <NET||abuse> ahhhhhh
[12:27] <NET||abuse> i never realized the lens thing did that!
[12:27] <NET||abuse> awsome
[12:27] <NET||abuse> hehe
[12:28] <AlanBell> I have set mine to never hide because I don't need the pixels and it keeps getting in the way of browser back buttons
[12:28] <ali1234> yeah i get that all the time
[12:28] <ali1234> go to top left to go back and accidentally touch the edge of the screen
[12:28] <ali1234> not just in the browser either
[12:28] <ali1234> there is too much stuff concentrated in the top left corner
[12:29] <NET||abuse> hmm, checked the lens for Pulse, found PulseAudio Manager.
[12:29] <ali1234> also it happens with gedit or terminal when i want to select a block of text
[12:29] <ali1234> very annoying
[12:29] <NET||abuse> maybe i can do networked pulseaudio wth that?
[12:29] <ali1234> isn't there a way to tunnel PA over ssh
[12:29] <ali1234> like ssh -X but for PA
[12:30] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/2145/how-can-i-use-pulseaudio-over-ssh
[12:33] <NET||abuse> ali1234: the accepted answer there points to a 2009 blog entry which includes use of padevchooser which is no longer included in oneiric
[12:33] <ali1234> well maybe there is something useful in the other answers, idk
[12:34] <NET||abuse> hmm, actually, i'll take that back, blog entry only mentions it in passing,
[12:34] <NET||abuse> this example is a little more involved and ssh'y
[12:42]  * NET||abuse sad
[12:44] <ali1234> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AccomplishmentsSpec :O
[12:44] <freakyclown> anyone have an answer for my Q earlier?
[12:44] <freakyclown> about reseting the indicator panel?
[12:44] <oimon> have you tried a unity --reset?
[12:44] <freakyclown> i *NEED* to get to tomboy and as its not displaying anything new i cant :/
[12:47] <NET||abuse> freakyclown: you having sync failure with tomboy on oneiric also?
[12:47] <NET||abuse> I have that issue?
[12:47] <NET||abuse> gets 38 notes, then fails. not clear reason why
[12:49] <oimon> thursday...hmm subway for lunch
[13:05] <freakyclown> well......that fucked everything :/
[13:05] <freakyclown> made things worse and then i had to reboot and loose a bunch of work cause i couldnt save what i needed
[13:06] <bigcalm> !ohmy | freakyclown
[13:06] <lubotu3`> freakyclown: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
[13:07] <NET||abuse> hmm, seems ccsm isn't making changes take affect yet
[13:07] <ging> freakyclown: this is 1 of those channels where they won't let me discuss what i did in the toilet
[13:07] <NET||abuse> turned on screenshot plugin and set launcher icon sizes down and top left activation zone, none of it working yet.
[13:08] <oimon> probably for the best ging
[13:09]  * freakyclown debates putting ubuntu/unity in the toilet :/
[13:10] <NET||abuse> is the gnome shell install on oneiric now compatible with unity? Natty wasn't, you couldn't instal side by side due to conflicts
[13:10] <NET||abuse> ubuntu uk podcast episode they mentioned gnome shell was in repo's and should just work now
[13:10] <NET||abuse> or did they just see it in repo's and didn't think of the conflict scenario?
[13:12] <freakyclown> awesome now i have two battery indicators! :/
[13:12] <NET||abuse> well uninstall and indicator
[13:12] <NET||abuse> i have conky running with battery info too
[13:13] <freakyclown> NET||abuse: would be easy if i had installed one!
[13:13] <freakyclown> this has just appeared on reboot :/
[13:13] <NET||abuse> owwh,
[13:13] <NET||abuse> what'd you install?
[13:14] <freakyclown> tons of stuff since last reboot ;)
[13:32] <DJones> Its not often I unfollow something/body on twitter, but wikileaks has turned into a propoganda stream for Assange now
[13:32] <BigRedS> When wasn't it one of them?
[13:34] <DJones> True, but at least until recently, it did put info about what it was leaking, now its just about the extradition/rape/paypal/visa claims
[13:40] <morsnowski> hi guys
[13:40] <morsnowski> why would "sudo chmod -R a=rw /media/truecrypt4/" not change permissions for that folder and it's children
[13:40] <morsnowski> it just doesn't do anything, no error no nothing
[13:41] <ali1234> DJones: they stopped leaking things. apparently they have no money to pay people to do redactions
[13:42] <DJones> ali1234: Yes, I knew about that
[13:42] <BigRedS> morsnowski: I take it an ls -ld on that directory before and after is the same, adn that's how you're verifying that nothing's changed?
[13:42] <BigRedS> what sort of filesystem is it in/on?
[13:42] <morsnowski> yes
[13:42] <morsnowski> ntfs in a truecrypt volume
[13:43] <morsnowski> hmm i thnink i made it ntfs, let me check
[13:44] <BigRedS> chmod doesn't understand ntfs, I can't remember how you get round that, though. I think you need to specify permissions at mount time?
[13:45] <BigRedS> It's been a long time since I last interfered with an ntfs volume...
[13:45] <morsnowski> /dev/dm-0  fuseblk   107768572  46330428  61438144  43% /media/truecrypt4
[13:45] <morsnowski> so it's something truecrytinian
[13:45] <jacobw> free graze box →  4MYNPP7
[13:46] <morsnowski> hmm I'll just mount it under windows and set as open as permissions I can find. lets see what that does . thanks
[13:47] <sadsun> hi
[13:47] <BigRedS> morsnowski: that probably wont help - Linux doesn't understand ntfs permissions
[13:49] <jacobw> o/ sadsun
[13:49]  * sadsun waves back
[13:53] <jacobw> sadsun: i posted 'free graze box →  4MYNPP7' just before you arrived
[13:54] <sadsun> o_O whats that?
[13:54] <jacobw> sadsun: its a voucher for graze.com that gives you a free box of interesting food
[13:54] <sadsun> ah I'm in the Netherlands
[13:55] <jacobw> ah ha
[13:55] <sadsun> looks good though
[13:56]  * sadsun has been considering to become a vegetarian for some time now
[13:56]  * oimon is a vegetarian at breakfast
[13:56] <sadsun> lol, thats a start :P
[13:57] <jacobw> i'm starting my second attempt at vegetarianism
[13:57] <sadsun> it aint easy, thats for sure
[13:57] <jacobw> my last attempt lasted a month, hopefully this one will be better :)
[13:57] <BigRedS> why are you doing it?
[13:57] <jacobw> it feels better, its hard to keep up, like going to the gym or doing kickboxing
[13:58] <oimon> i would die of malnutrition if i was vegetarian
[13:58] <sadsun> i used to eat ready-meal dinners and the only option is a veg.lasagna when it comes to ready-meals
[13:59] <jacobw> i cooked a batch of vegetable curry last night, that should provide a few meals
[14:11] <popey> oimon: you were asking about linuxprinting.org recently..?
[14:11] <oimon> popey: yes
[14:11] <popey> I just spoke to Till and he said the new server was delivered this week
[14:11] <oimon> ooh yeah :D
[14:11] <oimon> thanks for the info
[14:11] <popey> he will be given the backups and will reinstall the site
[14:12] <oimon> just checked the site twice today already
[14:12] <popey> and he's setting up a fail over site too, hosted by canonical
[14:12] <oimon> didn't relaise how much i relied on it
[14:12] <popey> and an update for jockey to make it check both servers
[14:27] <directhex> vegetarianism is fine, as long as you define bacon as a vegetable
[14:27] <BigRedS> I do have friends who insist that since pigs are vegetarian, I can eat them
[14:28] <bigcalm> Dear VM. You suck
[14:28] <MooDoo> i like vegitarians, just can't eat a whole one
[14:28] <MooDoo> bad dum tish
[14:29] <bigcalm> Morning, davmor2
[14:29] <czajkowski> UDS-P Day 3 http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/03/uds-p-day-3/
[14:30] <davmor2> morning bigcalm
[14:30] <MooDoo> czajkowski: hope you're having a good time davmor2 and czajkowski and popey :)
[14:30] <davmor2> MooDoo: too busy but fun
[14:30] <MooDoo> davmor2: well don't work too hard
[14:31] <czajkowski> indeed
[14:32] <oimon> where does apt-get source download files to?
[14:32] <davmor2> oimon: where ever it is told to
[14:33] <ali1234> the current directory
[14:33] <bigcalm> I fear that trying to send an email is asking too much of VirginMedia today :(
[14:33] <oimon> ali1234: thanks
[14:33] <oimon> i had a version of foomatic from 2010 , but was unsure if that was the one apt-get had got
[14:34] <oimon> need to compile a ppd file :-\
[14:34] <bigcalm> What's the difference between the CSD and the PWD?
[14:38] <oimon> what's a csd
[14:39] <mattt> afternoon
[14:40] <bigcalm> Current Selected Directory
[14:40] <deej1976> !info csd
[14:40] <lubotu3`> Package csd does not exist in natty
[14:40] <deej1976> !csd
[14:40] <bigcalm> It's not a package, it's a location
[14:44] <oimon> how can i create a PPD from the XML?
[14:50] <dogmatic69> :O
[14:50] <dogmatic69> i done cat some.pdf and now shell is bust...
[14:50] <dogmatic69> [┬┐_␤├└┌_├⎺_⎻␍° ␍␊┴␊┌⎺⎻ ⚡] $
[14:54] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: type 'reset' and hit enter
[15:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 3 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/03/uds-p-day-3/
[15:05] <smittix> :/
[15:05] <BigRedS> I tidied up my home directory this morning
[15:06] <BigRedS> It actually feels teh same now as if I'd tidied my desk
[15:06] <BigRedS> it's awesome
[15:06] <smittix> Have some people never heard of Archives. A user has a 15gb Mailbox
[15:06] <smittix> Exchange is crying
[15:06] <BigRedS> Have some people never heard of mail servers? smittix is running Exchange!
[15:06] <BigRedS> :)
[15:06] <smittix> Not me personally
[15:06] <smittix> :)
[15:07] <BigRedS> haha, yeah. I remember the fun of enforcing archiving-to-pst
[15:07] <smittix> We just hit the 75gb Mailstore limit
[15:07] <smittix> Exchange fell over - fun times.
[15:09] <MooDoo> yay
[15:10]  * smittix is playing with KDE
[15:10] <BigRedS> I pondered trying that KDE 3 fork the other day
[15:11] <BigRedS> Either I'll like that, or I'm just viewing old things through rose-tinted specs
[15:11] <jacobw> rose tinted specs
[15:12] <BigRedS> jacobw: yeah, having hunted down the old version, it usually turns out to be that :(
[15:12] <jacobw> superkaramba was ahead of its time
[15:12] <BigRedS> KDE4 seemed alright until I noticed the combination of needing a big amount of configuring to work, and a tendency to forget that config between sessions
[15:12] <jacobw> i used to be a kde fan before the long wait to 4.0
[15:13] <jacobw> i care much more about applications, most applications are written in GTK and gnome2/gnome3/unity provide me with a good way to switch focus between applications :)
[15:16] <DJones> INteresting http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/42867/commodore-64-extreme-model-launched quad core, i7, 8Gb ram, 2Tb HDD & running Mint
[15:17] <jacobw> :o
[15:23] <smittix> that reminds me.
[15:23] <smittix> Amiga has there own tablets
[15:23] <sadsun> uh c64... the good old days :)
[15:24] <BigRedS> jacobw: yeah, I've noticed that the only three things I require of my DE are ctrl+alt+arrow to move workspaces, alt+f2 and a wifi configurator
[15:29] <oimon> bad time to buy spare disks :(
[15:33] <smittix> My favourite game was on the Amiga, "Valhalla"
[15:36] <Azelphur> I was about 5 in the days of the amiga :D
[15:36] <Azelphur> I remember going into my brothers bedroom with premade breakfast and chanting "big car game!" until he woke up and played jaguar XJ220 with me :p
[15:36] <shauno> I still have mine.  there's more games available for it than there is my mac ;)
[15:37] <oimon> i have an amiga mammoth memory module at home for some reason
[15:37] <oimon> anyone still have an amiga?
[15:37] <Azelphur> I also used to love lemmings, wasn't actually old enough to play it, I just used to press the nuke button and giggle manically when they all exploded xD
[15:38] <shauno> I still have my 1200, but I can't seem to populate any more ram.  if I do, I can't address the pcmcia slot
[15:38] <DJones> Azelphur: Lemmings was good, I also liked Choplifter on the Apple II's
[15:38] <oimon> it's a a500 RAM expansion
[15:38] <Azelphur> hehe
[15:38] <shauno> ah; the other half-a-meg which pops in the bomb bay?
[15:39] <oimon> yes
[15:39] <Azelphur> and on gauntlet I used to sit there pressing up and down on the character select screen, so it'd be like wiz-warr-wiz-warr, \o/
[15:39] <shauno> yeah.  mine has 4MB & a new cpu in that bay :)
[15:39] <oimon> 4mb..wow
[15:39] <oimon> you must be single, right?
[15:40] <oimon> i had 10 PCs in my house before i got married
[15:40] <shauno> my amiga lasted longer than my marriage, but I'm not sure it could take sole blame
[15:40] <oimon> :(
[15:40] <DJones> oimon: You should have just moved them into the loft, they'd never get disturbed then
[15:41] <oimon> i didn't have a loft at the time, but i would now
[15:41] <oimon> there is a g4 powerbook up there that lasted a week on me...why i still have it?
[15:45] <DJones> I think I've got a Dell Poweredge server case & motherboard in mine, must be a good 10 years old, every other bit of it has been canibalised
[15:46] <oimon> my airfix models are up there :(
[15:46] <oimon> and books
[15:47] <DJones> I do have an office/computer room with 2 working desktops, 2 laptops, 2 desktops (not set up), 2 printers .....
[15:53] <oimon> my toddler walks past his old bedroom and points and says "DADA"
[15:53] <oimon> yes, it's daddy study now :)
[15:54] <MooDoo> my 3 year old says the reason there are no mermaids is that the dinosaurs ate them all
[16:02] <DJones> MooDoo: How does the 3 year old explain there not being any dinosours left now
[16:08] <Seeker`> DJones: mermaids are poisonous of course!
[16:09] <jacobw> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Lies-Tell-Small-Kids/dp/0340834056
[16:10] <Seeker`> I once told my brother that milk was poisonous just after he finished a big glass of milk :D
[16:10] <oimon> i was shocked to see that the mermaids on bagpuss had boobies
[16:10] <oimon> the ones on mr benn don't
[16:13] <jacobw> Seeker`: that's cold :o
[16:14] <Seeker`> yup, milk was right out of the fridge :P
[16:14] <Seeker`> I told him the truth a minute or two later
[16:14] <jacobw> lol
[16:22] <jacobw> lightning :o
[17:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Leadership Summit Part Two Today - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/03/leadership-summit-part-two-today/
[18:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] LetMetRead : Google Reader - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/11/03/letmetread-google-reader/
[18:05] <davmor2> czajkowski: behave or I'll rip your arm off and beat you with the soggy end
[18:06] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ha - go to google and type "do a barrel roll"
[18:08] <gord> davmor2, behave :P
[18:10] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: gah!
[18:11] <AlanBell> http://mrdoob.com/projects/chromeexperiments/google_gravity/
[18:13] <bigcalm> Very clever
[18:32] <AlanBell> secure boot UDS session about to start if people are interested
[18:33] <AlanBell> vlc http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/grandsierra-d.ogg.m3u to listen in
[18:33] <popey> can you tweet that?
[18:34] <AlanBell> twote it
[18:37]  * MartijnVdS hears nothing
[18:37] <AlanBell> popey: what happened to the audio
[18:37] <MartijnVdS> \o/ audios
[18:37] <AlanBell> back
[18:37] <Pendulum> MartijnVdS: there was no audio at that moment
[18:37] <Pendulum> the room was incredibly quiet
[18:38] <AlanBell> it faded out on the applause :)
[18:39]  * smittix has python woes.
[18:39]  * mgdm is attempting to use ctypes to wrap a library he wrote
[18:40] <mgdm> Though I've just realised that the bit of hardware I want to drive doesn't work on the Mac, which is what I'm using
[18:40] <jacobw> what's up smittix ?
[19:05] <jacobw> youtube's layout has changed
[19:07] <smittix> jacobw: just getting to grips with it. Trying to create a pop up dialog to ask if the user really wants to quit. heh
[19:12] <Azelphur> My brother says a desk like this won't take much weight, http://www.outlawdesignblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/2770294049_635dde0069.jpg
[19:12] <Azelphur> thoughts? I think it will o.O
[19:13] <BigRedS> Depends on teh size of much
[19:13] <BigRedS> but it hardly looks weaker than any other desk
[19:14] <Azelphur> BigRedS: yea, but I'm planning on putting a super heavyweight computer on it (steel, 4 hdds, dual gpus, water cooling with 480mm rad), along with quad screen and lots of other heavy stuff
[19:14] <Azelphur> so it's really gotta take a beating
[19:15] <BigRedS> if someone else is making it, get the specs from them, if you are, just reinforce it appropriately
[19:15] <BigRedS> or stick the PC on the floor...
[19:15] <Azelphur> yea, my brother found a local carpenter that was LFW
[19:18] <ali1234> it depends what kind of qood you make it out of
[19:18] <ali1234> wood
[19:24] <ali1234> Azelphur: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/IMAG0080.jpg
[19:24] <ali1234> that's a proper desk :)
[19:25] <Azelphur> :o
[19:25] <Azelphur> that is a propr desk.
[19:25] <BigRedS> I ike the vice
[19:25] <Azelphur> I think it would be a bit too small for me though
[19:25] <ali1234> lolll
[19:25] <ali1234> its huge though
[19:25] <Azelphur> It's nearly swamped with 3, what are those 17" monitors?
[19:25] <Azelphur> I have 4 26"
[19:26] <ali1234> yeah but you probably don't have a solder rework station and a 32 port switch
[19:26] <Azelphur> true
[19:26] <smittix> You guys should think yourself lucky
[19:26] <smittix> My desk is my knee
[19:26] <Azelphur> the desk I already have is about the same size of that, just without the cool keyboard tray
[19:26] <Azelphur> and it's really cramped
[19:26]  * BigRedS wonders if smittix is Santa
[19:26] <smittix> heh
[19:26] <Azelphur> and my monitors are basically like | __ __ |
[19:27] <Azelphur> xD
[19:27] <smittix> I once had an office until my daughter came along.
[19:27] <jacobw> 2 up 2 down?
[19:27] <smittix> Yeah,
[19:27] <smittix> Up for sale too so I can get an office back!
[19:28] <smittix> But then another child will come along and take control of it.
[19:28] <smittix> Need to make sure it already has a study
[19:31] <jacobw> ha, i was talking about Azelphur's depiction of his monitors
[19:31] <Azelphur> jacobw: nah, I have a standard rectangular desk, and 2 monitors take up about 70% of the desk space
[19:32] <Azelphur> so I have them widescreen, but the only way they'll fit on is with 2 monitors practically sideways
[19:32] <smittix> jacobw: HEH! thought you meant my house
[19:32] <smittix> which was correct anyway
[19:32] <smittix> I have some how messed my version number up using quickly :/ https://launchpad.net/autostart-changer
[19:33] <jacobw> i should get more involved in ubuntu
[19:34] <tonytiger> do it!
[19:36] <ali1234> the superliminal technique
[19:36] <jacobw> ?
[19:37]  * jacobw pokes launchpad
[19:37] <ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xx4BsBr2fU
[19:39] <BigRedS> Ooh. Apparently I've earned the tumbleweed badge on serverfault
[20:18] <mattt> if anyone is in/around datchet, don't order the large cod from drunken fish
[20:18]  * mattt goes to die
[20:20] <bigcalm> Drunken cook?
[22:27] <AlanBell> Azelphur: and others with multi monitors -> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19457/desktop-p-multi-monitor/
[22:31] <AlanBell> I would like some people to get involved in localised isos http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19613/community-p-localized-iso-community-growth/
[22:31] <AlanBell> so we could have an image that installs without Americanisms
[22:31] <diplo> I'd be up for that AlanBell
[22:32] <AlanBell> cool, from what I have read there are scripts that kind of just do it, based on the translations that are available
[22:33] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OneiricOcelot/LocalizedImagesRollout
[22:33] <AlanBell> I put myself down as the contact but I really don't have time to actually do it
[22:33] <diplo> 'The Queens English'
[22:33] <diplo> :D
[22:38] <Azelphur> AlanBell: blank etherpad is blank?
[22:38] <smittix> interesting
[22:38] <AlanBell> Azelphur: yes, the session is tomorrow!
[22:38] <Azelphur> ah :)
[22:38] <Azelphur> tbh all the limitations in multi monitor support are in the driver
[22:39] <AlanBell> oh, plenty of limitations in unity design too
[22:39] <gord> there is no unity design for multi-monitor :) at least as of right now
[22:39] <gord> we did the best we could to get something working, but there is always more we want to do
[22:40] <Azelphur> AlanBell: ah yea, that's somewhat true, limitations ie "It doesn't work at all"
[22:40] <Azelphur> which is why I switched to XFCE in 11.10
[22:41] <AlanBell> unity kind of works over two monitors for me
[22:42] <diplo> Didn't work for me at all
[22:42] <Azelphur> If you have separate X screens, it doesn't initialise the desktop environment on anything but :0
[22:42] <Azelphur> which means, you just get a white background and a black X pointer, that's it.
[22:42] <diplo> Went back to 10.10 on desktop, started using win7 on lappy
[22:42] <AlanBell> oh, I have one X screen
[22:42] <Azelphur> yea
[22:43] <AlanBell> laptop + hdmi port to largeish monitor
[22:43] <AlanBell> it is better than 11.04 was
[22:43] <Azelphur> AlanBell: it's pretty much what i've always said, if your dual screen your fine and everybody likes you
[22:43] <Azelphur> but if you use more than 2, most people will tell you to go away.
[22:43] <AlanBell> no, it is still broken on two screens
[22:43] <AlanBell> just not as broken as it used to be
[22:44] <Azelphur> AlanBell: yea but "partially broken" and "Doesn't work at all and is entirely unsupported" are leagues apart
[22:44] <AlanBell> they were demoing a 6 monitor rig at UDS a couple of days ago
[22:44] <AlanBell> just trying to find the articles about it
[22:44] <Azelphur> yea, you'll probably find that was ATI powered
[22:44] <Azelphur> or that they used xinerama which means no compiz/composite
[22:45] <diplo> Azelphur, mine was broke on natty on my laptop with a ATI card
[22:45] <diplo> not tried Oneric on that laptop yet
[22:46] <diplo> Book marked those links AlanBell, will take a look at work tomorrow
[22:46] <AlanBell> great
[22:46] <AlanBell> add 4 hours to the times
[22:49] <diplo> tbh I've moved to Gnome3 at home and got to say I prefer it over Unity so far, more responsive and less buggy for me so far
[22:49] <diplo> I was crashing 2-3 times a night, and just couldn't find what the issue was
[22:56] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1373/detail/
[22:56] <AlanBell> nottingham happy hour could do with more attendees :)
[22:57] <diplo> Really would like to make that, but can get up there as I'm visiting headoffice 2 weeks later
[22:57] <diplo> Can't ask to come twice :D
[22:57] <diplo> Have to wait for a more local one
[22:59] <AlanBell> tonytiger: pingaling
[23:06] <AlanBell> Azelphur: picture http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/ubuntu-desktop-designers-clarify-on-configurability/
[23:06] <AlanBell> there was a rather bad video of it too somewhere
[23:07] <diplo> Good night all
[23:07] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:08] <AlanBell> no idea what they had driving it, or what they said about it, but I think it is good that they are contemplating the problem
[23:09] <AlanBell> fundamental stuff like you are working on an app in the bottom right screen and you want to launch a text editor and you have to go to the top left screen to get to the launcher
[23:09] <AlanBell> at least you should now have a menu on the same monitor as the application
[23:10] <AlanBell> even though I think global menus are just a broken concept
[23:17] <jacobw> !politics
[23:17] <lubotu3`> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
[23:18] <hamitron> did i miss a nice arguement? :/
[23:26] <jacobw> nope, just me wanting to know which was the politics channel