[06:04] <head_victim> blahdeblah & elky: as someone who knows a lot more about administering websites than I, what are your thoughts on starting afresh with the user list for ubuntu.org.au, the benefit being you can make it so you can only log in with your launchpad openid (should dramatically reduce the spam user count).
[06:04] <head_victim> And anyone else with comments are welcome to make them.
[06:04] <blahdeblah> head_victim: Sounds good to me!
[06:05] <head_victim> blahdeblah: I really can't see a downside. We pretty much need people to have launchpad accounts for the loco.u.c site as it is.
[06:05] <blahdeblah> yep
[06:05] <blahdeblah> do it
[06:06] <head_victim> I just don't like making decisions like that as I'm not what you'd call a website admin guru.
[06:06] <head_victim> Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
[06:15] <blahdeblah> I think just give people some warning (say 1-4 weeks) that it's going to happen, then make it so.
[06:15] <head_victim> The only downside is all the current posts will have to be assigned to an archive user
[06:15] <head_victim> But I'm just posting to the list saying "we need a yes/no in X amount of time, speak now or forever hold your peace"
[06:16] <DarrenS> sorry I'll revise that we can retain historical sanely.
[06:16] <head_victim> Basically no one has argued against anything I've proposed so far so I'm just going with it. I'm giving opportunity for others to have input but if none is received going with what I think works
[06:17] <head_victim> I've been learing lots through the process as well which is always good
[06:23] <head_victim> sagaci: trans event tonight?
[06:35] <sagaci> head_victim: yeppers
[06:35] <head_victim> sagaci: cool I'll dent/tweet, anything special you want in there?
[06:37] <sagaci> not really, it's just an event to see if there's any lurkers out there who want to help
[06:38] <head_victim> Good excuse for a jam
[06:38] <head_victim> I may be around I'm not sure. I ahve a few things I have to do today and running out of day to do them
[06:39] <head_victim> It's in just over an hour right?
[06:41] <sagaci> yep, got the l.u.c wrong, should be 1900 GMT+10
[06:41] <sagaci> so 8pm nsw
[06:41] <sagaci> zzz timezones
[06:41] <head_victim> So actually in 3 hours
[06:41] <head_victim> No
[06:41] <head_victim> I was right the first time.
[06:41] <head_victim> I love timezones
[06:42] <head_victim> Spam the list :) Go on, you know you want to
[06:43] <sagaci> well at first I didn't think of it, but now you mention it, I may as well
[06:43] <head_victim> And FB :)
[06:44] <sagaci> I don't use FB
[06:44] <head_victim> I only use it for the team.
[06:44] <head_victim> jaddi does a nice job of that currently though
[06:45] <sagaci> head_victim: should be in a tad over 2 hours
[06:45] <sagaci> 8pm NSW, 7pm QLD, etc
[06:48] <sagaci> shouldn't have even worried about UTC/GMT in the email
[06:48] <sagaci> :/
[07:11] <gggs> needs to be more people using UTC on the internet, it's not difficult :)
[07:14] <head_victim> bejames: any news on the libraries?
[07:32] <DarrenS> head_victim: I sorted that logo thing, check the method in the theme config
[07:33] <bejames> head_victim: no, never got a chance to wander up to BSQ this week. Been busier that a one legged man in a bum kicking contest this week. Should be able to do it next week
[08:26] <head_victim> bejames: that's ok, sorry for before i had to run just after I pinged you
[09:00] <sagaci> hi, I think this will just be a small and short meeting, but I'll use the meetingology bot anyway to log it all properly
[09:02] <sagaci> #startmeeting Ubuntu en_AU translations - precise 12.04 cycle
[09:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Nov  4 09:02:35 2011 UTC.  The chair is sagaci. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[09:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[09:03] <sagaci> if anyone is around and would like to participate, just say something to log your attendance :)
[09:03] <head_victim> Evening
[09:03] <head_victim> I made it back :)
[09:04] <sagaci> http://loco.ubuntu.com/meetings/ubuntu-au/254/detail/ -- basic agenda of this meeting
[09:04] <jaddi27> hi
[09:05] <sagaci> #topic Update on en_AU translations for the Precise cycle
[09:06] <sagaci> So as of 4/11/11, we're around 85.7% complete of all the packages, (bearing in mind that we have all the main Ubuntu packages done)
[09:07] <sagaci> which equates to around 53,000 strings to do
[09:08] <sagaci> also keep in mind the rough estimate of 20-40,000 potential new strings -- however shouldn't be too many since this is an LTS and most of the changes have already happened... ie. unity, gnome3, gtk, banshee
[09:09] <jaddi27> I think we should be on track to get this done by 12.04
[09:09] <head_victim> It's looking pretty good actually
[09:09] <head_victim> My hat is off to you two actually, you've really taken the bull by the horns.
[09:09] <sagaci> and thus we're No.4 overall on the translation board, behind Spanish, en_GB, and Brazilian Portuguese 
[09:09] <jaddi27> I know that I will have more time after uni finishes next week to translate more
[09:10] <head_victim> And their teams are quite large by comparison.
[09:10] <jaddi27> I think we are doing well, seeing as we started fairly late (I think, anyway)
[09:11] <sagaci> translating into en_AU is a whole different beast than to translating into italian and any other non en-based language
[09:11] <sagaci> but that doesn't make it any less important
[09:12] <jaddi27> yes, i agree with that
[09:13] <jaddi27> i have really started to notice things in windows that are using enUS english
[09:13] <sagaci> 500 strings may take us 15-20mins but 500 strings for something like Tibetan might take a day with intense peer-review
[09:13] <jaddi27> mice that ubuntu is mostly right now
[09:14] <head_victim> I must admit since starting translation I really notice it in other systems when the locale isn't set, or worse yet it's set but it's still wrong.
[09:15] <sagaci> translation has opened me up to ubuntu development in itself, filing bugs and fixing them so it's no longer an issue
[09:15] <head_victim> The process is the same no matter what the issue is.
[09:15] <sagaci> although I tend to spot a typo once in every thousand strings
[09:15] <head_victim> I'm lazy enough that I'd like to see someone develop a plugin to have a button beside each string to "report a bug" on it.
[09:15] <jaddi27> i have found a couple of typos, but haven't really followed them up
[09:15] <sagaci> plus it helps new developers tackle these trivial bugs to learn the bzr/lp workflow
[09:16] <head_victim> Obviously not high on anyone's to do list ;)
[09:16] <jaddi27> head_victim, yes, that would be good
[09:17] <sagaci> *coughbang* https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntu-translations-en-au-1204
[09:17] <jaddi27> If I could understand where the code for everything was, I would try to make something up,but I can't find all the code
[09:18] <head_victim> sagaci: how large were you saying the entire PO was?>
[09:18] <sagaci> or file a wishlist bug
[09:18] <sagaci> head_victim: compressed or ?
[09:19] <head_victim> Whatever you have to download of lp
[09:19] <sagaci> i think it was 580MB
[09:19] <sagaci> give or take 20m
[09:20] <head_victim> Ok, is that a factor for you?
[09:20] <sagaci> but now I'm just thinking, you wouldn't have to reupload it all, just the individual po's to their respective package
[09:20] <sagaci> no
[09:20] <jaddi27> Is that for doing the scraping?
[09:20] <sagaci> yup
[09:20] <head_victim> Ok, I just recall you weren't on the best connection at one point so making sure.
[09:21] <jaddi27> Are you going to do that? Also, is it just done on already translated strings, or all strings
[09:21] <sagaci> oh nah, that's just my arrogance to think that I should be able to download gigs and gigs of data on a wireless connection 24/7
[09:21] <sagaci> wirelss 3G/4G, that is
[09:22] <head_victim> Well you can, I've downloaded a couple of hundred GB on wireless before just to make sure it wasn't metered ;)
[09:22] <sagaci> eventually but we need to make sure that most of the strings are done
[09:22] <sagaci> ie. 95%+
[09:22] <jaddi27> ok
[09:22] <sagaci> head_victim: lp/basepacks aren't unmetered
[09:23] <head_victim> But yeah, I am generally only comfortable with poedit at this stage for offline po editing
[09:23] <head_victim> sagaci: nope, but I was suprised how quickly you can get 100GB over wireless.
[09:23] <sagaci> are you talking WiFi or 3G/4G?
[09:23] <head_victim> 3G
[09:24] <sagaci> yeah, it's ok
[09:24] <jaddi27> head_victim, what type of stuff were you getting unmetered? was it through bigpond wireless?
[09:24] <sagaci> ubuntu repo mostly
[09:24] <sagaci> and ubuntu srcs, which is handy
[09:24] <head_victim> jaddi27: yeah just the aarnet stuff. Was trying to make sure it was unmetered and accidentally left it on overnight hence the 100GB instead of say 10gb to test.
[09:24] <jaddi27> ok
[09:24] <head_victim> But back on topic, when you dl the po would poedit be useful or is it just going to be too huge for a gui?
[09:25] <sagaci> they're separate .po's
[09:27] <jaddi27> sagaci, what is the kubuntu-alpha and cli-beta sections on the blueprint?
[09:27] <sagaci> you download the basepack, put it in a new dir under home (or wherever), extract it... blows up to about 3-4GB
[09:27] <sagaci> that was about 4-6 weeks ago as a note to myself on the status of those packages as a whole
[09:28] <sagaci> kubuntu was pretty untranslated/untouched and the commandline packages were ok but nothing incredible
[09:28] <sagaci> it's pretty much moot now since we're mowing them down
[09:29] <jaddi27> ok. sounds good
[09:29] <sagaci> just need to focus on getting them done and then getting the high-priority strings recorrected, "mobile phone", "rubbish bin" etc
[09:29] <sagaci> according to the English Translation guide, anyway
[09:30] <head_victim> Yeah I basically default to the enGB wiki when I'm not sure
[09:30] <head_victim> I also have an Australian Macquarie dictionary just in case
[09:30] <jaddi27> ok. are there any changes we need to make compared to the enGB page?
[09:30] <sagaci> exclamations
[09:31] <jaddi27> head_victim, would you say cypher or cipher? enGB is saying cypher
[09:31] <sagaci> probably used to years and years of Internet Explorer cipher
[09:32] <head_victim> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypher_%28disambiguation%29 gives some indication
[09:32] <head_victim> It would appear they're very interchangeable
[09:33] <jaddi27> yes, looks like it. on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cipher, they have both spellings
[09:33] <blahdeblah> cipher gets my vote
[09:33] <jaddi27> Do we have a preference for what I am translating at the moment?
[09:33] <head_victim> I would have probably said cypher until I just googled it. 
[09:34] <jaddi27> ok. i will just leave those strings for now
[09:34] <jaddi27> I will have to go to dinner now - be back later on
[09:36] <head_victim> Cipher is the main entry in the austrlaian concise oxford, cypher is listed as just a variant of cipher
[09:36] <jaddi27> Ok. will put it as cipher
[09:37] <head_victim> Maybe we need our own wiki list?
[09:37] <jaddi27> might be a good idea
[09:37] <jaddi27> copy the enGB one, and modify it to suit
[09:37] <head_victim> sagaci: could we add that to the blueprint?
[09:37] <sagaci> sure
[09:40] <sagaci> #action create modified en_AU translation list, deriving from the en_GB wiki page
[09:40] <meetingology> ACTION: create modified en_AU translation list, deriving from the en_GB wiki page
[09:41] <head_victim> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation/WordSubstitution
[09:41] <head_victim> For reference that is the enGB list
[09:42] <sagaci> anything else, finish off these last 50-70,000 strings and then focus on fixing mistakes/mistranslations and then just fix them as they come in
[09:42] <sagaci> and thus focus on the iso l10n
[09:46] <sagaci> pretty much ready to wrap it up
[09:48] <sagaci> #endmeeting
[09:48] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Nov  4 09:48:07 2011 UTC.  
[09:48] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-au/2011/ubuntu-au.2011-11-04-09.02.moin.txt
[09:50] <head_victim> Thanks for the update :)
[09:55] <sagaci> no problem
[09:57] <head_victim> blahdeblah: you'd be proud, I'm learing some html in the website update. I still remember how poor my first attempts were.
[09:57] <blahdeblah> We're all poor when we start out
[09:58] <head_victim> I've learnt how to insert images and then centre vertically and horizontally those images into a drupal block. Thank goodness for google.
[10:00] <blahdeblah> the only way to code HTML ;-)
[10:29] <jaddi27> sagaci, thanks for the update
[10:30] <jaddi27> head_victim, is wysiwyg installed on the website? it makes drupal posting much easier
[10:30] <sagaci> no worries, just settting up my main laptop with the latest precise daily
[10:31] <jaddi27> head_victim, i prefer ckeditor as the editor over tinymce if that is of use also
[10:31] <head_victim> jaddi27: no idea tbh
[10:31] <head_victim> I think it will come down to if we're going to have admins doing the posting or if we'll open it up for all users to post.
[10:31] <jaddi27> sagaci, I am surprised they have released a version already - there mustn't be many changes since oneiric
[10:32] <sagaci> nah and it's going to be pretty unstable for a while
[10:32] <jaddi27> head_victim, You can do profiles (from memory they are in drupal6 also - i mainly use drupal7), so registered users/admins/whatever is selected can use the ckeditor, while others just have to use plain text
[10:34] <head_victim> jaddi27: yeah with the number of spam users we had on the old website we had to manually allow edit rights per person when they wanted to post.
[10:35] <head_victim> SSO is hopefully going to help with that
[10:35] <jaddi27> yes, i can understand that
[10:35] <jaddi27> we will still have to monitor it, but if it is openid, it should help
[10:35] <head_victim> That and it's just clicking, no remembering passwords
[10:36] <jaddi27> http://drupal.org/project/mollom might be worth looking at
[10:36] <jaddi27> it gets good reviews, and is written by the drupal founder, so integrates very well
[10:36] <head_victim> The main issue is as it's Canonical hosted it either has to be already in use somewhere in Canonical or it has to be security vetted.
[10:37] <head_victim> Which is appropriate in my opinion. So as long as modules meet the required outcomes I don't mind which specific ones they are.
[10:40] <jaddi27> ok. Well I think at lease mollom would be useful, even if we don't get the text editing module
[10:41] <jaddi27> The text editor is: http://drupal.org/project/wysiwyg, which I would use with http://ckeditor.com/
[10:41] <jaddi27> in case you wanted to know
[10:42] <head_victim> I'll pass it on :)
[10:43] <head_victim> I'd favour the text editing personally, if we lock it down to openid I'd be interested to see if we get any spam users at all.
[10:43] <head_victim> Considering how rare it is to see spam on launchpad
[10:44] <jaddi27> Yes, that is true
[10:46] <head_victim> I'm writing a list of wishlist modules, currently there is Date, Calendar, WYSIWYG, CKEditor & Mollom. All I'm really after is function though so I won't think twice if they offer something similar that's going to dramatically reduce the amount of resources they have to spend on the project.
[10:46] <head_victim> But that being said, we're the test case for all the canonical host sites, so when we're up and running well they'll start migrating the other users.
[10:46] <jaddi27> IMCE - http://drupal.org/project/imce  - is a image/file browser, which when the integration module with wysiwyg is installed, makes it very easy to do images
[10:47] <jaddi27> head_victim, Just to clarify, there is a ckeditor module as well as wysiwyg, but so far I have used the latter because it is being more widely used
[10:47] <jaddi27> I think both work fine though
[10:48] <jaddi27> And wysiwyg does not include a text editor, so you have to install one, which is where ckeditor comes in
[10:48] <head_victim> No dramas, the Canonical staff have had to do plenty of hand holding while I work out what I'm meant to be asking for and how to answer their questions ;) I'm learning lots which is good though.
[10:48] <jaddi27> Yes, that is good to hear