[13:01] In theory, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-translations-roundtable2 starts now in #ubuntu-uds-bonaire and on http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/bonaire6.ogg.m3u [15:31] there was some talk about the base package updates and the frequency of such, which led onto a point that regular community users could generate these updated packages "ourselves"... just wondering if there's any documentation/procedure for this [15:38] sagaci: there was some talk about this during the roundtable2 at UDS: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19832/community-p-translations-roundtable2/ [15:38] [TLE] Make the third language pack update for Oneiric a full one [15:39] [dpm] File a bug in launchpad to enabel UTC team members to request full langpack exports [15:39] these are the results [15:39] kelemengabor unfortunately i wasn't able to participate (listen) at UDS due to technical difficulities (laptop died) [15:39] i was wondering if there was any talk about translation of universe packages [15:39] andrejz: nope [15:40] isn't translation for universe packages just mainly done upstream? [15:40] see the notes above [15:40] yes, but we might enable it for a few selected packages [15:40] @sagci: yes but we would like to change that for a few packages [15:41] there are plans for this, but progress seems to be stalled, this is true too [15:42] i wanted to check what's the status [15:42] maybe next week after things calm down a little [15:43] kelemengabor we have a bug in slovenian language and i cannot pin it down maybe you can help me [15:43] andrejz: bring it on :) [15:43] well it's when you run apt-get update in terminal [15:43] waiting for heads is not translated correctly [15:44] BUT the string looks translated ok in apt [15:44] We have this letter Č and next to it is a wierd letter [15:44] but only in this string, so it's not general encoding problem (Which we have had about a year ago) [15:45] hm [15:45] can you copy the wrong string here? [15:48] here is the image - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1450316/slika-2011-11-04%2017%3A47%3A20.png [15:48] string is "Čakanje na glave" [15:48] oh, that character [15:49] this means: the font does not contain a symbol for this character, so here is its UTF-8 code [15:49] so it's a font thing? [15:50] my first guess would be that this character looking like an "a" is not an "a" really [15:51] because other a characters appear okay [15:51] that's what i thought too, but i cannot find a sting with wierd a anywhere :) [15:52] but i think if you look carefully you will see there is a below that square letter [15:52] square charachter [15:52] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/apt/+pots/apt-all/sl/382/+translate [15:52] it is here [15:53] it appears to me like a box here [15:53] ok, but the right string is there [15:53] not the current, but the in upstream and the suggestion from libapt [15:53] -pkg [15:53] yup, this is where the "apt translation mess" enters :( [15:54] yes but that shouldn't matter since the correct string was approved last december? [15:54] ok so which version is used then? [15:54] our problem is [15:54] I think the upstream [15:54] currently [15:54] there is no maintainer in debian at all for slovenian [15:55] and this is the second time something has happened with the encoding / characters in debian [15:55] so the process of apt translation looks like this: [15:55] we translate the apt-all template, submit it into Debian. [15:56] the build process splits it into three parts, which get packaged [15:56] it already starts to be overcomplicated, but wait until Ubuntu enters [15:56] so we fork the translations into LP and langpacks [15:57] but at the same time, we keep the translations in the packages, because of the installer [15:57] Ubuntu wants the installation process to happen fully localized [15:57] so this is necessar [15:57] y [15:58] this means if you want your updated translations appear, you would have to export the apt-all template, commit it into bzr and use it for building the packages [15:59] which, as you might have guessed, didn't happened in Oneiric [15:59] so upstream is used [15:59] i find sending translations to debian very slow and sometimes confusing [16:00] at the same time, we keep the three split templates in the langpacks, in case someone wants to submit new translations to untranslated entries [16:01] so that those would appear translated with langpacks [16:01] langpack updates, I mean [16:01] but this is not the way for fixing bad translations, because templates installed from the packages take precedence over those coming from langpacks [16:02] also there was recently some file shuffling between the binaries of apt [16:03] so that translations that were in one package previously are now packaged into three binary packages [16:03] so what should i do to fix this as soon as possible [16:04] this had to be followed by langpack-o-matic, so that it doesn't strip translation files from binary packages that now should contain them, but this didn't happened before Oneiric release [16:05] about what to do, well, ask dpm [16:06] I think the good solution would be the export-rebuild dance, if package maintainers/SRU team agrees, which I doubt [16:06] but maybe dpm knows a shorter way through the woods, or something [16:07] I hope he will continue the translation coordinators calls sometime soon, so you can bring it up there [16:08] this issue may affect other languages too [16:08] this whole export-rebuild thing is really to be done after nonlangpackfreeze, but we suck at enforcing that. [16:09] yes, i noticed that ;) How can this be improved? [16:09] there are quite a few packages for which we should do this, but currently its up to their maintainer to actually happen - so mostly it doesn't [16:09] good question! :) [16:10] and yes, upsteam apt translations sucks for Hungarian too :( [16:14] this is certainly worth a little thinking, because the idea is that the whole install process, until the user is able to download his/her language packs, should be fully localized. but if you have no internet connection during installation, after reboot you can see this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kelemeng/pix/languageselector-updatenotifier.png [16:14] which is pretty much a shame :( [16:14] yup [16:15] this is not related to apt, but enforcing the nonlangpackfreeze [16:15] also there is this bug in debian installer in slovenian so under certain circumstanced user sees wrongly formed string [16:15] and if you want to sumbit to debain you somehow have to split the template [16:16] so i just don't have the energy to do it ;) [16:16] me neither. [16:16] also the Hungarian Debian translator has quite different views on defining "quality translation" than me :( [16:17] well there is no slovenian debian translator [16:17] or there is one overloaded person who tries to maintain one or two packages [16:17] I hoped that this fork called Ubuntu can provide a good solution for users, but nooo [16:18] we also had some debates about terminology among various translation groups [16:18] its from Debian, it gotta be good! :) [16:18] Debian really should use something like launchpad or transifex [16:18] it's so user unfriendly environment [16:19] this debian translator once showed me a report [16:19] he submited a tranlsation in february and maintainer picked it up in november [16:20] that's why seleceted universe packages need to be translatable in launchpade [16:20] well, I think this situation could be solved by taking over the project, but time is a great barrier :( [16:21] but what's in universe that comes from Debian? [16:21] if someone would pay me to translate (or if I had a source of income) i might try and take it over [16:21] self generating income [16:50] anyway i think this nonlangpack deadline should be addressed in some way kelemengabor [16:51] indeed, too bad that UDS is already almost over :( [16:52] no matter, we might still arrange it [16:53] i think we should try to have a translator's call ASAP and discuss it and also can try to gather some feedback from ubuntu-translators ML [16:58] kelemengabor can you check if string in empathy is now translated (use echo for voice cancelization) [17:03] andrejz: not yet :( [17:03] but it should be fixed [17:03] before 3.2.1 right ? [17:03] empathy is 3.2.0.1, I'm afraid this is not high enough [17:05] http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/empathy/3.2/empathy-3.2.1.changes [17:05] yup, here it is [17:05] we would need an update for empathy [17:05] oh, sorry i missed the 0 in 3.2.0.1 [17:08] Kelemengabor what about music field [17:09] in unity the term Music is still not translated [17:09] even though i have reported it and i think you found the reason why it's not translated [17:09] I know, IIRC the bug was fixed in the upstream branch, but no SRU for Oneiric [17:10] can we somehow get this to SRU cause it's one of the most visible spaces [17:15] well, I think you can file an SRU request: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure [17:15] but I have no time for these :( [17:15] :( [17:15] sorry, somewhere you must draw a line :( [17:15] i understand to well myself [17:15] again, ask dpm :) [17:16] we also need to clear up priorities for KDE packages [17:17] I could name a few other bugs that would worth an SRU for Natty, but no one seems inclined to do the actual work [17:17] kelemengabor, kubuntu-user-docs are not a part of a language pack, correct? [17:17] AFAIK, not [17:17] ok [17:17] or, wait... [17:18] i checked the import queue [17:18] maybe they are, I don't know much about the kde langpack [17:22] andrejz: no, they are not. all kubuntu-docs translation is in the kubuntu-docs package [17:22] cool [17:22] so if you want an update, you need to rebuild it :) [17:22] i just need to approve templates for oneiric [17:22] i haven't checked it since the deadline [17:23] but appearently some went ahead after the final deadline :) [17:23] and now i am importing them