[13:01] <kelemengabor> In theory, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-translations-roundtable2 starts now in #ubuntu-uds-bonaire and on http://icecast.ubuntu.com:8000/bonaire6.ogg.m3u
[15:31] <sagaci> there was some talk about the base package updates and the frequency of such, which led onto a point that regular community users could generate these updated packages "ourselves"... just wondering if there's any documentation/procedure for this
[15:38] <kelemengabor> sagaci: there was some talk about this during the roundtable2 at UDS: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19832/community-p-translations-roundtable2/
[15:38] <kelemengabor> [TLE] Make the third language pack update for Oneiric a full one
[15:39] <kelemengabor> [dpm] File a bug in launchpad to enabel UTC team members to request full langpack exports
[15:39] <kelemengabor> these are the results
[15:39] <andrejz> kelemengabor unfortunately i wasn't able to participate (listen) at UDS due to technical difficulities (laptop died)
[15:39] <andrejz> i was wondering if there was any talk about translation of universe packages
[15:39] <kelemengabor> andrejz: nope
[15:40] <sagaci> isn't translation for universe packages just mainly done upstream?
[15:40] <kelemengabor> see the notes above
[15:40] <kelemengabor> yes, but we might enable it for a few selected packages
[15:40] <andrejz> @sagci: yes but we would like to change that for a few packages
[15:41] <kelemengabor> there are plans for this, but progress seems to be stalled, this is true too
[15:42] <andrejz> i wanted to check what's the status
[15:42] <andrejz> maybe next week after things calm down a little
[15:43] <andrejz> kelemengabor we have a bug in slovenian language and i cannot pin it down maybe you can help me
[15:43] <kelemengabor> andrejz: bring it on :)
[15:43] <andrejz> well it's when you run apt-get update in terminal
[15:43] <andrejz> waiting for heads is not translated correctly
[15:44] <andrejz> BUT the string looks translated ok in apt
[15:44] <andrejz> We have this letter Č and next to it is a wierd letter
[15:44] <andrejz> but only in this string, so it's not general encoding problem (Which we have had about a year ago)
[15:45] <kelemengabor> hm
[15:45] <kelemengabor> can you copy the wrong string here?
[15:48] <andrejz> here is the image - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1450316/slika-2011-11-04%2017%3A47%3A20.png
[15:48] <andrejz> string is "Čakanje na glave"
[15:48] <kelemengabor> oh, that character
[15:49] <kelemengabor> this means: the font does not contain a symbol for this character, so here is its UTF-8 code
[15:49] <andrejz> so it's a font thing?
[15:50] <kelemengabor> my first guess would be that this character looking like an "a" is not an "a" really
[15:51] <kelemengabor> because other a characters appear okay
[15:51] <andrejz> that's what i thought too, but i cannot find a sting with wierd a anywhere :)
[15:52] <andrejz> but i think if you look carefully you will see there is a below that square letter
[15:52] <andrejz> square charachter
[15:52] <kelemengabor> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/apt/+pots/apt-all/sl/382/+translate
[15:52] <kelemengabor> it is here
[15:53] <kelemengabor> it appears to me like a box here
[15:53] <andrejz> ok, but the right string is there
[15:53] <kelemengabor> not the current, but the in upstream and the suggestion from libapt
[15:53] <kelemengabor> -pkg
[15:53] <kelemengabor> yup, this is where the "apt translation mess" enters :(
[15:54] <andrejz> yes but that shouldn't matter since the correct string was approved last december?
[15:54] <andrejz> ok so which version is used then?
[15:54] <andrejz> our problem is
[15:54] <kelemengabor> I think the upstream
[15:54] <kelemengabor> currently
[15:54] <andrejz> there is no maintainer in debian at all for slovenian
[15:55] <andrejz> and this is the second time something has happened with the encoding / characters in debian
[15:55] <kelemengabor> so the process of apt translation looks like this:
[15:55] <kelemengabor> we translate the apt-all template, submit it into Debian.
[15:56] <kelemengabor> the build process splits it into three parts, which get packaged
[15:56] <kelemengabor> it already starts to be overcomplicated, but wait until Ubuntu enters
[15:56] <kelemengabor> so we fork the translations into LP and langpacks
[15:57] <kelemengabor> but at the same time, we keep the translations in the packages, because of the installer
[15:57] <kelemengabor> Ubuntu wants the installation process to happen fully localized
[15:57] <kelemengabor> so this is necessar
[15:57] <kelemengabor> y
[15:58] <kelemengabor> this means if you want your updated translations appear, you would have to export the apt-all template, commit it into bzr and use it for building the packages
[15:59] <kelemengabor> which, as you might have guessed, didn't happened in Oneiric
[15:59] <kelemengabor> so upstream is used
[15:59] <andrejz> i find sending translations to debian very slow and sometimes confusing
[16:00] <kelemengabor> at the same time, we keep the three split templates in the langpacks, in case someone wants to submit new translations to untranslated entries
[16:01] <kelemengabor> so that those would appear translated with langpacks
[16:01] <kelemengabor> langpack updates, I mean
[16:01] <kelemengabor> but this is not the way for fixing bad translations, because templates installed from the packages take precedence over those coming from langpacks
[16:02] <kelemengabor> also there was recently some file shuffling between the binaries of apt
[16:03] <kelemengabor> so that translations that were in one package previously are now packaged into three binary packages
[16:03] <andrejz> so what should i do to fix this as soon as possible
[16:04] <kelemengabor> this had to be followed by langpack-o-matic, so that it doesn't strip translation files from binary packages that now should contain them, but this didn't happened before Oneiric release
[16:05] <kelemengabor> about what to do, well, ask dpm
[16:06] <kelemengabor> I think the good solution would be the export-rebuild dance, if package maintainers/SRU team agrees, which I doubt
[16:06] <kelemengabor> but maybe dpm knows a shorter way through the woods, or something
[16:07] <kelemengabor> I hope he will continue the translation coordinators calls sometime soon, so you can bring it up there
[16:08] <andrejz> this issue may affect other languages too
[16:08] <kelemengabor> this whole export-rebuild thing is really to be done after nonlangpackfreeze, but we suck at enforcing that.
[16:09] <andrejz> yes, i noticed that ;) How can this be improved?
[16:09] <kelemengabor> there are quite a few packages for which we should do this, but currently its up to their maintainer to actually happen - so mostly it doesn't
[16:09] <kelemengabor> good question! :)
[16:10] <kelemengabor> and yes, upsteam apt translations sucks for Hungarian too :(
[16:14] <kelemengabor> this is certainly worth a little thinking, because the idea is that the whole install process, until the user is able to download his/her language packs, should be fully localized. but if you have no internet connection during installation, after reboot you can see this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~kelemeng/pix/languageselector-updatenotifier.png
[16:14] <kelemengabor> which is pretty much a shame :(
[16:14] <andrejz> yup
[16:15] <kelemengabor> this is not related to apt, but enforcing the nonlangpackfreeze
[16:15] <andrejz> also there is this bug in debian installer in slovenian so under certain circumstanced user sees wrongly formed string
[16:15] <andrejz> and if you want to sumbit to debain you somehow have to split the template
[16:16] <andrejz> so i just don't have the energy to do it ;)
[16:16] <kelemengabor> me neither.
[16:16] <kelemengabor> also the Hungarian Debian translator has quite different views on defining "quality translation" than me :(
[16:17] <andrejz> well there is no slovenian debian translator
[16:17] <andrejz> or there is one overloaded person who tries to maintain one or two packages
[16:17] <kelemengabor> I hoped that this fork called Ubuntu can provide a good solution for users, but nooo
[16:18] <andrejz> we also had some debates about terminology among various translation groups
[16:18] <kelemengabor> its from Debian, it gotta be good! :)
[16:18] <andrejz> Debian really should use something like launchpad or transifex
[16:18] <andrejz> it's so user unfriendly environment
[16:19] <andrejz> this debian translator once showed me a report
[16:19] <andrejz> he submited a tranlsation in february and maintainer picked it up in november
[16:20] <andrejz> that's why seleceted universe packages need to be translatable in launchpade
[16:20] <kelemengabor> well, I think this situation could be solved by taking over the project, but time is a great barrier :(
[16:21] <kelemengabor> but what's in universe that comes from Debian?
[16:21] <andrejz> if someone would pay me to translate (or if I had a source of income) i might try and take it over
[16:21] <andrejz> self generating income
[16:50] <andrejz> anyway i think this nonlangpack deadline should be addressed in some way kelemengabor
[16:51] <kelemengabor> indeed, too bad that UDS is already almost over :(
[16:52] <andrejz> no matter, we might still arrange it
[16:53] <andrejz> i think we should try to have a translator's call ASAP and discuss it and also can try to gather some feedback from ubuntu-translators ML
[16:58] <andrejz> kelemengabor can you check if string in empathy is now translated (use echo for voice cancelization)
[17:03] <kelemengabor> andrejz: not yet :(
[17:03] <andrejz> but it should be fixed
[17:03] <andrejz> before 3.2.1 right ?
[17:03] <kelemengabor> empathy is 3.2.0.1, I'm afraid this is not high enough
[17:05] <kelemengabor> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/GNOME/sources/empathy/3.2/empathy-3.2.1.changes
[17:05] <kelemengabor> yup, here it is
[17:05] <kelemengabor> we would need an update for empathy
[17:05] <andrejz> oh, sorry i missed the 0 in 3.2.0.1
[17:08] <andrejz> Kelemengabor what about music field
[17:09] <andrejz> in unity the term Music is still not translated
[17:09] <andrejz> even though i have reported it and i think you found the reason why it's not translated
[17:09] <kelemengabor> I know, IIRC the bug was fixed in the upstream branch, but no SRU for Oneiric
[17:10] <andrejz> can we somehow get this to SRU cause it's one of the most visible spaces
[17:15] <kelemengabor> well, I think you can file an SRU request: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Procedure
[17:15] <kelemengabor> but I have no time for these :(
[17:15] <andrejz> :(
[17:15] <kelemengabor> sorry, somewhere you must draw a line :(
[17:15] <andrejz> i understand to well myself
[17:15] <kelemengabor> again, ask dpm :)
[17:16] <andrejz> we also need to clear up priorities for KDE packages
[17:17] <kelemengabor> I could name a few other bugs that would worth an SRU for Natty, but no one seems inclined to do the actual work
[17:17] <andrejz> kelemengabor, kubuntu-user-docs are not a part of a language pack, correct?
[17:17] <kelemengabor> AFAIK, not
[17:17] <andrejz> ok
[17:17] <kelemengabor> or, wait...
[17:18] <andrejz> i checked the import queue
[17:18] <kelemengabor> maybe they are, I don't know much about the kde langpack
[17:22] <kelemengabor> andrejz: no, they are not. all kubuntu-docs translation is in the kubuntu-docs package
[17:22] <andrejz> cool
[17:22] <kelemengabor> so if you want an update, you need to rebuild it :)
[17:22] <andrejz> i just need to approve templates for oneiric
[17:22] <andrejz> i haven't checked it since the deadline
[17:23] <andrejz> but appearently some went ahead after  the final deadline :)
[17:23] <andrejz> and now i am importing them