[02:17] <czajkowski> just went up up a helium balloon
[07:59] <DJones> Morning
[08:09] <Adriannom> morning
[08:10] <diplo> Morning
[08:11] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:11] <daubers> Morning
[08:11] <Adriannom> how do i disable escape sequences on the console?  that is, i just want a regular escape key
[08:14] <tonytiger> AlanBell: pong?
[08:14] <j0nr> morning
[08:21] <Adriannom> odd that i can't find anything on google about it.  surely people have used apps that need a basic esc key..
[08:37] <Adriannom> dosbox it is then :s
[09:07] <dwatkins> Adriannom: stty?
[09:15] <Adriannom> dwatkins, thanks for the suggestion, doesn't seem to help though
[09:29] <dwatkins> What do you want esc to do, Adriannom?
[09:36] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:37] <MooDoo> hello cz
[09:38] <MooDoo> hello czajkowski
[10:06]  * JamesTait yawns, stretches and blinks. "Good morning." :)
[10:06] <czajkowski> indeed
[10:18]  * bigcalm does a safety dance
[10:18] <daubers> You can dance
[10:18] <BigRedS> a safety dance/
[10:18] <daubers> doo doo do da doo doo doo do
[10:19] <bigcalm> Everybody: look at your hands
[10:19] <MooDoo> you been watching glee again?
[10:20] <bigcalm> That track is over too soon
[10:21]  * bigcalm wishes he was big in Japan
[10:22] <bigcalm> Actually. When I visited in 2004, I was taller than the average height, so technically...
[10:25]  * MooDoo would be a giant
[10:25]  * deej1976 Yawn slow day
[10:39] <smittix> Moaning
[10:40] <sadsun> mornin'
[10:40] <bigcalm> Mining
[10:40] <smittix> heh
[10:41] <bigcalm> 128.7p per litre at asda - What does it normally cost for petrol then?
[10:41] <DJones> smittix: Its the other channel for the "mining" :)
[10:43] <DJones> bigcalm: Asda near home is 131.7 for petrol, 137.7 for diesel
[10:43] <sadsun> go Tesla :)
[10:44] <Adriannom> dwatkins, i want apps in the console to recognise esc as the escape key.  what i don't want is instead the escape key to start an escape sequence
[10:44] <bigcalm> DJones: noticed a retweet that asda have cut their price to 128.7p. As I'm a diesel drinker, I have no idea what that really means :)
[10:45] <DJones> not heard about that, but sounds like its 3p/litre off
[10:46] <bigcalm> https://twitter.com/#!/asda/status/132352885882232833
[10:47] <smittix> DJones: huh mining?
[10:47] <bigcalm> 136.7p per litre for diesel it would seem
[10:48] <DJones> looking at that, 3p off unleaded and only 1p off diesel
[10:48] <DJones> Going on the prices at my local asda
[10:49] <bigcalm> I fill up once every 6 weeks or so
[10:49] <bigcalm> Costs about 80 quid though
[10:49] <DJones> I fill up about twice a month, probably costs £140 in total
[10:50] <DJones> smittix: Sorry, it was bigcalm that said "mining" :)
[10:50]  * DJones polishes his eyeballs
[10:50] <dwatkins> Adriannom: hmm, have you checked the keymap/locale? Sounds like something's wrong there... or do you mean ctrl+C functionality, i.e. quit?
[10:55] <Halabund> Anyone have some clues for this one? --> http://askubuntu.com/questions/75395/poor-sound-quality-on-ubuntu-compared-to-winxp-why
[10:58] <Adriannom> dwatkins, i mean certain apps aren't registering it as an escape key because instead it's starting an "escape sequence", which waits for a further character and does something else.  maybe it's that the app is badly coded or something, not sure, either way i'd like to try to get standard escape key functionality.
[10:59] <Adriannom> dwatkins, so something isn't wrong, the escape sequence thing is a documented feature, there just doesn't appear to be a way of changing it
[11:00] <Halabund> how do I get F1 to work in console programs?  It just brings up the gnome-terminal help
[11:00] <Adriannom> not that i can find anyway
[11:03] <Adriannom> Halabund, not sure.  try http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=linux+console+%22disable+f1%22
[11:04] <Halabund> Adriannom, thanks, I already did.  I'll just use xterm instead, it's the easiest
[11:04] <Halabund> I don't need F1 every day anyway
[11:05] <Adriannom> Halabund, did you try with double quotes around the "disable f1"?  i didn't get good results without
[11:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 4 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/04/uds-p-day-4/
[11:05] <Adriannom> %22 = "
[11:24] <DJones> I like this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/04/bofh_2011_episode_17/ Nice explanations of version numbers :)
[11:32] <daubers> Hooray! Arduinos and MQTT are helping me win an argument with the estate agents and the landlord
[11:32] <daubers> I love science and technology :-D
[11:32] <BigRedS> haha
[11:34] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[11:35] <sadsun> goodmornin'bro
[11:35] <brobostigon> morning sadsun
[11:36] <DJones> Morning brobostigon, have you been released ok
[11:36] <brobostigon> DJones: yes, i have, yesterday. the infection id clear, now. however, my skin still needs some healing.
[11:37] <DJones> Good news then
[11:37] <brobostigon> DJones: yes, i look forward to some good food again, :)
[11:37] <DJones> :)
[11:45] <brobostigon> DJones: so it will be chicken curry, and beer night, :)
[11:45] <DJones> Heh, I had chicken curry & wine last night
[11:45] <brobostigon> :)
[11:47] <diplo> daubers, what are you proving ?
[11:51] <DJones> brobostigon: Just debating what filling to put in a suet pudding for dinner tomorrow, looking like steak & veg & ale
[11:52] <brobostigon> DJones: sounds good, :)
[12:05] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Andrew] Development of SlickPanel : Configuration - http://whyareyoureadingthisurl.wordpress.com/2011/11/04/development-of-slickpanel-configuration/
[12:34] <BigRedS> I _really_ wish * expanded as far as dotfiles
[12:35] <BigRedS> it seems so daft it not
[12:36] <bigcalm> Sod it, sub way it is then
[12:40] <jacobw> Halabund: man <command>
[12:45] <Halabund> jacobw, ??
[12:58] <daubers> diplo: That there is a damp problem stemming from the humidity, and that it comes from the back of the flat
[12:58] <BigRedS> Apparently there's a mozilla fair in London this weekend
[12:58] <BigRedS> anyone know what that is?
[13:05] <popey> morning
[13:05] <DJones> Morning popey
[13:05]  * deej1976 checks clock hmm 
[13:08] <jacobw> BigRedS: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Festival2011
[13:09] <BigRedS> jacobw: Ah! Ta! Why couldn't they put that on the website...
[13:12]  * popey tickles aquarius 
[13:12]  * aquarius is tickled
[13:12] <DJones> Are you still enjoying UDS
[13:12] <jacobw> switching between terminal windows in unity is fustrating :(
[13:12] <MattJ> Not for me
[13:13] <AlanBell> jacobw: what I did in the end was turn off the unity switcher keybindings and turn on one of the regular compiz switcher plugins
[13:13] <gord> i generally just use terminator and split my terminals
[13:13] <jacobw> i should be using tabs in gnome-terminal or terminator not multiple gnome terminal instances
[13:13] <deej1976> screen
[13:13] <gord> but i'v never been good at alt tabbing with any alt tabber though, so tend to keep everything in one window
[13:13] <MattJ> I use terminator in a tiling window manager, so that's saying something
[13:13] <AlanBell> I would like to use the standard one, but until it stops raising every window of an app it doesn't work for me
[13:14] <jacobw> AlanBell: ccsm?
[13:14] <AlanBell> jacobw: yes
[13:14] <gord> :O dang it. i forgot to get curly wurly's from popey :(
[13:14] <AlanBell> turned on application switcher
[13:14] <popey> gord: have yo left?
[13:14] <gord> popey, yeah back home now
[13:15] <popey> bummer
[13:15] <gord> popey, throw them out at a plenary, introduce the americans ;)
[13:19] <popey> heh
[13:22]  * TheOpenSourcerer has a cheese sarny with his home-made chilli chutney :-D
[13:22] <AlanBell> which is very tasty
[13:22] <brobostigon> yummy, :)
[13:23]  * deej1976 hmmm chilli chutney 
[13:23]  * AlanBell had a spoonful earlier, still warming my mouth nicely
[13:24] <deej1976> jealous
[13:25] <gord> not being able to publish entire directories in ubuntu one is a pain :(
[13:33] <popey> how do you make the launcher stay out?
[13:33] <popey> and not hide
[13:35] <AlanBell> in ccsm unity plugin Hide Launcher set to never
[13:36] <popey> yay
[13:36] <popey> ta
[13:36] <popey> thats so much nicer
[13:38] <AlanBell> it is
[13:38] <czajkowski> ohh really
[13:38] <czajkowski> handy
[13:38] <jacobw> cheese can record video, skype cannot
[13:38] <czajkowski> I find I've to move my mouse in and out till it comes out
[13:38] <AlanBell> much less swearing involved when trying to get to a browser back button
[13:44] <gord> cheese can record video *and* make you have a funny face
[13:48] <jacobw> neither of which is what i want :p
[13:50] <jacobw> the video test in skype's options dialogue works
[13:52] <jacobw> but the microphone doesn't work with anything
[13:57] <DJones> Anybody with a kindle around for a quick question, just reading some reviews and one comment which I've not seen repeated anywhere is that because the screen isn't backlit, you're not able to read at night, I do a lot of reading at night/morning when its dark and just wondered whether that would rule out the kindle/kobo etc with e-ink screens
[13:58] <bigcalm> DJones: How well can you read a book in the dark?
[13:59] <DJones> bigcalm: I use my phone to read ebooks, so thats backlit & not a problem
[13:59] <bigcalm> I have the 50 quid leather case with built in light. Well worth the cost in protecting the kindle and lighting the screen
[13:59] <bigcalm> DJones: but how do you read a physical book?
[14:00] <DJones> I would put the light on if it was dark, but as the time I'm reading, my wife is normally asleep, I don't want to do that
[14:01] <bigcalm> So get the case with the light (it's only on when you want it to be)
[14:01] <DJones> The case is probably the only way round it
[14:01] <Myrtti> got to love Russell Howard
[14:01] <Myrtti> I'm laughing my head off
[14:01] <bigcalm> Myrtti: isn't he a darling?
[14:04] <Myrtti> AHHAHHAHAH Dear Jim, would you please fix it so that I'd look less like Harry Potter
[14:04] <Myrtti> just killin'
[14:17] <Myrtti> oh lorrrdddie
[14:30] <davmor2> morning all
[14:30] <bigcalm> Evening
[14:33] <_hux_> bigcalm I'm confused I thought this was #ubuntu-uk
[14:34] <_hux_> it's afternoon
[14:36] <bigcalm> _hux_: ?
[14:37] <bigcalm> I'm messing with davmor2's head
[14:37] <bigcalm> Somebody has to
[14:38] <oimon> bonjour everybod
[14:38] <_hux_> and mine. I just got off night shift lol
[14:38] <_hux_> or bonsoir
[14:39] <oimon> i notice fedora has got to the stage of using an automatix style script..
[14:42] <oimon> and i read that gnome-shell will imminently run even on hardware without a native 3D driver, including virt guests, hence fallback mode obsolete?
[14:48] <pancro> checking now
[14:49] <oimon> "gnome shell for everyone" http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/158976.html
[14:54]  * BigRedS wonders who it's for at the minute
[14:54] <BigRedS> Oh, I see
[14:55] <oimon> heard BigRedS metioned on uupc and suddenly realises he's been reading BigRedS wrongly
[14:55] <BigRedS> Hm?
[14:56] <BigRedS> How have you been reading it?
[14:56] <oimon> always read it as big reds, rather than big red S
[14:56] <BigRedS> Oh. and uupc not uucp. That makes more sense.
[14:56] <oimon> that's the tab completion big-tab...doh..bigr-tab
[14:58] <BigRedS> haha
[14:58] <BigRedS> Oh, you're listening to the computers-in-education episode?
[14:58] <BigRedS> I keep meaning to bloggify my opinions on that, because I seem to disagree with everybody
[14:59] <oimon> what's ur opinion, or do you want to save it?
[15:01] <oimon> my clever nephew hates ICT and he should really be having computing lessons instead that inspire him to do more than minecraft. the stuff they cover in ICT should be shoved into 2 weeks of lessons as part of PSE (personal social education) or general studies
[15:01] <Myrtti> ooer
[15:01] <Myrtti> I thought Finland was having it tough by the court making a decision that an ISP should block PirateBay
[15:02] <Myrtti> but it turns out that BT was ordered the same in UK, and they're going to comply like sheep, unlike the Finnish ISP is
[15:03] <oimon> i did comp sci GCSE and although it referred to outdated stuff such as card readers etc, at least it covered some fundamentals (generational backups etc). and i wrote a big project in Basic that was pretty decent.
[15:03] <oimon> that was the only thing that came close to the CS project i did at uni, which we had absolutely no training on writing the project up or even programming it
[15:06] <jacobw> when did you do the CS GCSE oimon ?
[15:06] <BigRedS> oimon: I think IT should be in the curriculum, just not how it is now
[15:06] <BigRedS> maybe I need to write that blog post :)
[15:06] <oimon> 1990-91
[15:06] <BigRedS> Myrtti: BT protested quite strongly, but law's law
[15:06] <diplo> Didn't even have PC's at my school then oimon  :P
[15:07] <oimon> i had an archimedes
[15:07] <BigRedS> oimon: my big disagreement is that everyone seems to think that replacing MS Office with $IDE and $programmingLanguage is a solution
[15:07] <DJones> When did computer science/studies first get exams in school?
[15:07] <Myrtti> BigRedS: righto
[15:07] <oimon> btw i saw some guy studying for some city & guilds diploma the other day, and his study notes showed floppy drives and DOS stuff. it was ancient
[15:07] <oimon> DJones: i suspect when GCSEs came along
[15:07] <BigRedS> Myrtti: Aruably they only protested out of laziness, but they didn't want to implement the ban and, IIRC, said that this cleanfeed thing is trivial to circumvent
[15:07] <jacobw> i saw an archimedes in 1999
[15:08] <BigRedS> but I think that this way to get to newzbin you have to actively use somethign to circumvent teh restriction, so any succesful visitors know they're doing somethign they shouldn't
[15:08] <oimon> i should have bought the acorn shares when they were 6p
[15:08] <DJones> oimon: I thought it may have been about then, nothing existed when I was doing my 'O' levels in the early 80's
[15:08] <oimon> would be a zillionaire by now
[15:09] <tubadaz> DJones: I did Computer Studies O-level in 1984 - well before GCSEs
[15:09] <Myrtti> oh good
[15:09] <oimon> tubadaz: what was the course like?
[15:09] <Myrtti> for once I feel young
[15:09] <Myrtti> carry on
[15:09] <oimon> i was warned off computing a-level even if i wanted a CS degree
[15:10] <jacobw> me too Myrtti
[15:10] <tubadaz> oimon: very much book based - we had one BBC Micro which we had to share! :-O
[15:10] <DJones> oimon: When I invent my time machine, I'll go back and invest a few thousands in microsoft, apple, facebook etc (Ah, who am I kidding, no I won't I'll just run bill gates & zuchenburg over)
[15:10] <jacobw> i did a diploma in digital applications in 2006-7
[15:10] <oimon> acorn & bbc made me the man i am today
[15:11] <DJones> tubadaz: I left school in 82, the school computer was a ZX80
[15:11] <tubadaz> At the time, I had a ZX81 and a Spectrum at home! :-D
[15:11] <daubers> My "computing" GCSE involved writing spreadsheets
[15:11] <jacobw> i eschewed dreamweaver and wrote my html code by hand with notepad
[15:11] <DJones> May have been a zx81
[15:11] <oimon> daubers: sounds more like ICT
[15:11] <daubers> tubadaz: Spectrums rule :)
[15:11] <daubers> jacobw: I got in trouble for doing that at school :(
[15:11] <oimon> i'm still avoiding dreamweaver now
[15:11] <tubadaz> daubers: :-D
[15:12] <jacobw> daubers: i can imagine, "er.. but what's that doing to the computer?!" is what i was asked..
[15:13] <daubers> jacobw: Thats the point I'd run netsend and say "It's better for the computer than this" <message spams on all the machines in the school>
[15:15] <jacobw> daubers: haha, the sys admin of my school's network helpfully left a gui version of netsend on a few machines
[15:15] <Myrtti> oy, Dreamweaver was ok, in comparison to other tools
[15:15] <Myrtti> ... back in 2000
[15:16] <daubers> I dunno why people keep saying "You don't need to know how a microwave works". If you want to make decent food in a microwave, a knowledge of how it works definatley helps
[15:17] <oimon> like not microwaving metal and covering food
[15:17] <oimon> and not microwaving your head
[15:17] <daubers> Indeed, and stuff needing some kind of water type thing in it
[15:17] <oimon> true
[15:17] <oimon> it's just the rules are shorter
[15:18] <daubers> Indeed
[15:18] <oimon> riding a bike or a car needs to be learned
[15:18] <jacobw> indeed, i've seen someone with a degree in philosophy of science put a fork in a microwave not knowing what would happen
[15:18] <daubers> There's also a point that if you teach people what else these things can do, then surely people will use them for more things
[15:18] <oimon> a law undergrad tried microwving baked bean tin ...without opening
[15:19] <jacobw> oh goodness
[15:19] <jacobw> ++law
[15:19] <DJones> oimon: That says everything about lawyers
[15:19] <oimon> he could only cook one thing the entire year
[15:19] <DJones> I guess that wasn't beans :)
[15:20] <oimon> no...after that it was roast chicken + buy a loaf of bread
[15:20] <oimon> then leave chicken carcass on counter for someone else to tidy away
[15:20] <jacobw> i was thinking about a cooking course yesterday
[15:21] <oimon> my son made me casserole the other day.
[15:21]  * AlanBell needs to do something about a chicken
[15:21] <oimon> and cupcakes
[15:21] <jacobw> whilst trying to dice a butternut squash
[15:21] <oimon> he is nearly 2 :P
[15:21] <jacobw> i need to learn knive skills and how to make curry base sauce and things like that
[15:21] <oimon> women like those skills :)
[15:21] <jacobw> oimon: is he an android?
[15:22] <oimon> more of a tux
[15:22] <jacobw> ha
[15:24] <oimon> in my experience even just a few signature dishes, well cooked can really impress the opposite sex
[15:25]  * jacobw was only thinking about improving his cooking skills
[15:25] <jacobw> :D
[15:26] <oimon> wow, that shard building is very nearly finished
[15:26] <jacobw> shard building?
[15:26] <oimon> some giant pointy building in london
[15:26] <oimon> looks like only a few more floors need glazing
[15:27]  * DJones wonders why they've named a building after a guy he was at school with
[15:28] <oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shard_London_Bridge
[15:28] <jacobw> i've just moved to london :)
[15:29] <oimon> has a question to ask the room
[15:29] <jacobw> no, chips aren't one of your five a day..
[15:30] <DJones> But chocolate raisons are
[15:30] <jacobw> lol
[15:30] <daubers> unless they're deep fried
[15:30] <oimon> i think i might struggle hiring a competent sysadmin so was considering hiring a CS (or similar) graduate on a lower salary who shows evidence of being a potentially good linux admin
[15:30] <oimon> thoughts?
[15:31] <oimon> due to hiring constraints i need to decide before i see the candidates :(
[15:31] <diplo> I tried that oimon, had issues with a lot of people we had in just not caring about there job
[15:31] <AlanBell> depends on the risk profile of the thing being admined
[15:32] <diplo> Generilisation, but it was the norm, seems a new generation of people don't care
[15:32] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[15:32] <oimon> are there any fresh graduates in here who are looking for their break as a linux sysadmin?
[15:33] <czajkowski> davmor2: poke
[15:33] <diplo> Would love a new job, just a tad far away for me oimon :)
[15:33] <davmor2> czajkowski: if you see Ursula give her a hug sounds like she needs it
[15:33] <oimon> diplo: where aer you?
[15:33] <bahja-ubuntu> hi
[15:34] <AlanBell> oimon: feel free to mail a suitable message to the list about the position
[15:34] <diplo> oimon, Nr Bath, so a long commute :/
[15:35] <oimon> AlanBell: unfortunately i'm sort of doing this blind as i need to commit to the type of position before i start hiring. stupid public sector :(
[15:35] <diplo> I really want to get back to sysadmin full time
[15:35] <oimon> one of my friends commutes to london from bath
[15:35] <diplo> But money needs to be worth while, guessing he earns a good wage ?
[15:35] <bahja-ubuntu> hello all
[15:36] <oimon> diplo: don't think so
[15:36] <oimon> times are hard
[15:36] <AlanBell> sure, but you can be fairly vauge about it, I don't want people posting job specs every week to the list, but a message saying you are hiring and asking people to contact you off list for a job spec would be fine
[15:36] <diplo> yeah, also with my wife leaving me can't afford to earn less than I'm on now
[15:37] <diplo> Wat sort of money is this job going to be offering ?
[15:37] <bahja-ubuntu> SOME one help me how to de pxe
[15:38] <diplo> bahja-ubuntu, just type what you are trying to acheive/having issues with
[15:38] <oimon> diplo: PM'd
[15:39] <bahja-ubuntu> i need to to boot  other computer in home using diskless technologie
[15:40] <bahja-ubuntu> i'm using    ubuntu 11.10
[15:40] <bahja-ubuntu> 3.0
[15:41] <bahja-ubuntu> you now just litel  of peopel using gnu/linux in algeria
[15:41] <bahja-ubuntu> diplo
[15:42] <diplo> Ok, so where are you already.. have you attempted setting anything up at all yet ?
[15:42] <bahja-ubuntu> see some tuto in youtube  but no metodic using in thos tuto
[15:43] <bahja-ubuntu> like install dhcp3-server
[15:43] <bahja-ubuntu> tftp
[15:44] <bahja-ubuntu> what about you dipol where are you from
[15:44] <diplo> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/Netboot
[15:45] <diplo> UK, majority of people will be in here as this is the uk ubuntu channel
[15:45] <diplo> We have a few strays from other countrys in here though :)
[15:52] <sagaci> people who are in LoCos with a less-active community
[15:56] <MooDoo> hi all
[15:57] <diplo> hi MooDoo
[15:57] <MooDoo> :)
[16:04] <oimon> aww i thought they just loved brits
[16:17] <AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19613/community-p-localized-iso-community-growth/ 7PM session
[16:17] <AlanBell> if some folk could drop in on that it would be great, there is live audio and IRC to talk back to them
[16:18] <AlanBell> I am probably not going to be able to make it
[16:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> This is really weird... In Firefox when I type CTL+F for the search tool - instead I get a rather odd looking terminal appear bottom right of the desktop.
[16:39] <popey> terminal or search box?
[16:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> I get a terminal
[16:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> I want the search tool that appears in the status bar
[16:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Using the FF menu it works but CTL+F opens this odd little terminal
[16:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Same in Chrome so it looks like a gnome thing rather than the app
[17:18] <NET||abuse> howdy,, nearly end of friday, have a weird annoyance with thunderbird and the indicator, i have 3 gmail accounts each with dozens of labels i filter different email to, i don't want the messaging indicator to go blue and list out the new mail count for all of them (it actually truncates to about 7 or so) but just for selected important stuff.. 3 inboxes and just 2 of the many label'd folders in gmail i have
[17:18] <NET||abuse> is there a wayt ot alter this behaviour?
[17:19] <NET||abuse> set which folders get added the the messaging indicator new mail list
[17:19] <NET||abuse> ?
[17:20] <e33> hi
[17:20] <e33> Discover the hciX location of the dongle, what mean dongle, is it the usb for bluetooth?
[17:20] <MartijnVdS> check the mac address
[17:21] <MartijnVdS> e33: Yes, dongle is the USB<->Bluetooth thing
[17:22] <e33> i am not so familiar with linux system, but on window system, no need to put any dongle to use the bluetooth
[17:22] <e33> i mean do i need to put a dongle to use bluetooth?
[17:22] <e33> sorry guys for this stupid question
[17:23] <daftykins> laptop or desktop PC?
[17:23] <e33> laptop
[17:23] <daftykins> laptops usually have bluetooth built in
[17:24] <daftykins> open a terminal and type "lsusb" and "lspci" and look for something bluetooth related
[17:24] <MartijnVdS> but to the software, it's the same: built-in and external bluetooth "look" the same for software
[17:26] <e33> i didnt see any bluetooth word :)
[17:27] <daftykins> e33: you could pastebin the output from those commands if you like, so we can look
[17:27] <daftykins> do you know pastebin?
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> e33: try "hcitool dev"
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> e33: it shows all the bluetooth devices that have been detected
[17:27] <e33> e33@e33-G560:~$ hcitool dev
[17:27] <e33> Devices:
[17:28] <e33> is it mean i dont have bluetooth built in on my pc?
[17:28] <daubers>  would you not need to run that as root?
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> no
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> you do need to run this one as root though
[17:28] <e33> i will run it as a root
[17:28] <daubers> Fair enough :) Some of those do, smoe dont (like lshw)
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> e33: please paste the output on pastebin
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> sudo rfkill list
[17:29] <MartijnVdS> it should list all bluetooth and wifi devices (and other things with antennas) inside your laptop
[17:30] <e33> sorry guys for the input cause it will cover the screen
[17:30] <e33> e33@e33-G560:~$ sudo rfkill list
[17:30] <e33> [sudo] password for e33:
[17:30] <e33> 0: phy0: Wireless LAN
[17:30] <e33> 	Soft blocked: yes
[17:30] <e33> 	Hard blocked: yes
[17:30] <e33> 1: ideapad_wlan: Wireless LAN
[17:30] <e33> 	Soft blocked: yes
[17:30] <e33> 	Hard blocked: no
[17:30] <e33> 2: ideapad_bluetooth: Bluetooth
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> !pastebin | e33
[17:30] <e33> 	Soft blocked: no
[17:30] <e33> 	Hard blocked: no
[17:30] <lubotu3`> e33: For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[17:30] <e33> e33@e33-G560:~$
[17:30] <daftykins> that's probly why i mentioned pastebin ¬_¬
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: and I..
[17:30] <e33> i see
[17:30] <e33> sorry guys
[17:30] <daftykins> ;)
[17:30] <daftykins> np
[17:31] <daftykins> lenovo ideapad eh, is it that shiny new 13"?
[17:31] <daftykins> :D
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: it looks like the bluetooth is recognised and not blocked
[17:31] <e33> it is lenovo 560
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> uhr
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> e33:
[17:31] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: i am very pleased for him ;)
[17:32] <daftykins> (or her)
[17:34] <daftykins> cor, i got quite a rude call from a desperate-to-get-commision Dell rep today, from India
[17:35] <daftykins> i had contacted them for a quote for a client, then been hounded by email twice and now a call
[17:35] <daftykins> they really are desperate
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> A rude one? Report to his boss :)
[17:35] <daftykins> well he just rooted through records to find my number then called me up without solicitation
[17:35] <daftykins> and wanted to know how soon i might be ordering ;)
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> LIEK, NEVAR!!!!11!12
[17:36] <daftykins> the funny thing is, in the process of asking for one quote i've already had dealings with 11 different guys!
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> *cough*
[17:36] <daftykins> terrible cold you've got there MartijnVdS :>
[17:39] <e33> so gentlemen :)
[17:39]  * MartijnVdS takes off every zig
[17:41]  * daubers goes home
[18:20] <bigcalm> Is it possible to change the sent date on emails in an IMAP folder?
[18:23] <daftykins> why do i detect shenanigans? :D
[18:25] <gord> why yes i agree, my shenanigan detector is waaay of the scale
[18:26] <bigcalm> A couple of years ago, a server of ours thought that it was in 2015. A few emails that were then sent from trac have the erroneous date. Using the 'All Mail' view in Thunderbird is not quite right with these emails in the wrong place
[18:28] <MattJ> It's not impossible to change the dates, just don't ask me how from a user perspective
[18:29] <bigcalm> It's a google apps address sadly
[18:29] <bigcalm> So I doubt I have real control of it
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you can use IMAP to fix it -- download the mails to an mbox, fix that, delete from IMAP, re-upload the mbox
[18:30] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: mutt should be able to do it
[18:33] <mgdm> bigcalm: if you have access to the IMAP server, probably - you could edit the mailbox directly >:)
[18:33] <mgdm> (if it's Maildir or mbox)
[18:33] <bigcalm> Humm, ok. I will look into it eventually :)
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: it's Gmail
[18:34] <mgdm> ah
[18:34] <mgdm> didn't spot that
[18:36] <bigcalm> They are all responses to a closed ticket. Tempted to delete the emails. But I hate deleting anything
[18:37] <bigcalm> There we go :S
[18:39]  * bigcalm wants http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sor8_lHWHkc
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: part of some kind of indie bundle?
[18:40] <bigcalm> I guess it might be
[18:40] <bigcalm> Don't think it's released yet (that game)
[18:43] <gord> huh... those guys don't have much imagination http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QLp7q18iZk
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> "Look we wrote a physics engine"
[18:58] <jacobw2> whoops
[18:58] <bigcalm> You didn't meant to come here?
[18:58] <mgdm> not with that cloak :P
[18:59] <bigcalm> Are you defecting from Fedora?
[18:59] <daftykins> XD
[18:59] <daftykins> i've a feeling peeps are defecting *to* Fedora ;)
[18:59] <bigcalm> I say use what works for you
[18:59] <daftykins> yeah
[19:00] <daftykins> Unity is my motivating reason
[19:01] <ali1234> doesn't fedora default to gnome-shell?
[19:01] <ali1234> isn't that *even worse*
[19:01] <MattJ> I don't get why someone would switch distro based on the default DE, but... I guess I'm me
[19:01] <mgdm> I prefer it to Unity, but it's a close-run thing
[19:01] <ali1234> MattJ: compare kubuntu to opensuse to see why
[19:02] <MattJ> I'm not a KDE person :)
[19:02] <ali1234> if you want a particular DE you will get significantly better results by picking a distro that uses it by default
[19:02] <daftykins> well let's consider that not *everyone* knows nor is confident on how to change DE
[19:03] <MattJ> daftykins, a good point... but... you? :)
[19:03] <daftykins> ah the above was just a thought of mine really
[19:03] <daftykins> i don't actually use any Ubuntus newer than Lucid right now
[19:04] <daftykins> i've only had the odd fiddle in a VM
[19:05] <MattJ> I suspect the majority (not all) people who are not capable of changing DE in Ubuntu probably aren't going to be too bothered by Unity
[19:06] <ali1234> it has nothing to do with technical ability
[19:06] <daftykins> well, i actually said people need to know about it, rather than their technical ability
[19:06] <MattJ> I agree it's not just technical ability, but I'd say it's certainly related
[19:07] <ali1234> if anything it is down to the technical ability of the people creating the packages
[19:07]  * MartijnVdS had to explain ccsm settings (to "fix" unity) to one of our sysadmins today.
[19:07] <daftykins> because Joe Bloggs walking up to a particular distro doesn't necessarily know it's just a component rather than something fixed
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> It's not obvious
[19:07] <ali1234> KDE is more than just a component
[19:07] <ali1234> KDE on opensuse operates totally differently to KDE on ubuntu
[19:07] <daftykins> i never referred to KDE personally
[19:08] <daftykins> nor opensuse
[19:08] <ali1234> the same is true of gnome-shell
[19:08] <daftykins> but yeah
[19:08] <ali1234> with fedora
[19:08] <jacobw> i defected from fedora with maverick
[19:08] <daftykins> jeez, i'm getting close to wanting to never say anything in here again, it gets obsessed over for far too long =|
[19:09] <jacobw> but anyhow, i won't be pressing ctrl+z in my screen session again anytime soon :|
[19:09] <MattJ> daftykins, I know how you feel :)
[19:09] <daftykins> :)
[19:09] <ali1234> you are basically making the same mistake that everyone involved in ubuntu has been making for the past 12 months
[19:09] <ali1234> "if only we explained it better, people would like it"
[19:09] <daftykins> me?
[19:09] <ali1234> yes, you
[19:10] <daftykins> i'd be all willing to accept what you're saying immediately, if i had thought it through that far
[19:10] <daftykins> but really, the extent of my comment was "user sees new thing, doesn't like, tries option B"
[19:10] <hamitron> "anyone who doesn't agree needs leducating"
[19:10] <daftykins> lmao
[19:10] <hamitron> educating*
[19:10] <ali1234> you are asserting that the reason people switch to another distro is because they don't know they can have that other distro's DE installed on ubuntu
[19:11] <daftykins> hamitron: that was really clever actually, because it's like that person is being "led" through said education :D
[19:11] <bigcalm> If people are complaining about lack of usability, then something needs to be about the product. Not just teach people how to use it how they think it's meant to be used.
[19:11] <ali1234> this isn't true. if you know about other distros and DEs the chances are you understand enough to know they can be installed on ubuntu
[19:12] <ali1234> the problem is that all other DEs on ubuntu get an insignificant amount of resources allocated to them in comparison with unity
[19:12] <daftykins> ali1234: *obviously* (to me alone, granted) i don't think that's the case in an even quantifiable percent of cases. not everything i say is deadly serious - in fact often practically nothing is
[19:12] <ali1234> as a result, they don't work well compared to the same DE on pretty much any other distro
[19:13] <ali1234> quite often changes made specifically for unity break the other DEs
[19:13] <daftykins> yeah that's all obvious to me
[19:13] <daftykins> and of course we know that, but again i'm not talking about us :S
[19:13] <hamitron> tbh, no distro can do everything... it has to have a target and aim towards just and only that
[19:13] <ali1234> hamitron: i agree
[19:13] <daftykins> yeah
[19:13] <ali1234> and since i prefer unity to the other two anyway that's why i still use ubuntu
[19:14] <ali1234> but if i wanted to switch to KDE i would NOT install kubuntu
[19:14] <daftykins> anyway for the love of tux, please try and implement a mental filter that doesn't feel it necessary to jump all over the slightest of comments
[19:14] <ali1234> daftykins: you made a rather large generalization
[19:14] <daftykins> which, to my mind, was clearly not serious
[19:14] <daftykins> inferred by the very first comments' smiley
[19:14] <ali1234> well if you want to make frivolous comments please make them about yourself :)
[19:15] <daftykins> sigh
[19:15] <daftykins> what you've just done is exactly what's wrong with the community
[19:15] <MattJ> File a bug report
[19:16] <jacobw> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7-l-PiVWNY
[19:16] <daftykins> judging by how long it took to resolve the first i posted, i'm not sure it's worth it ;)
[19:17]  * hamitron hasn't even tried Unity yet
[19:19] <daftykins> jacobw: crikey, must say i'm tempted to agree with the comments there that that can be quite damaging
[19:20] <jacobw> daftykins: it could well be
[19:20] <hamitron> is it worth a download?
[19:20] <jacobw> hamitron: yes
[19:21] <hamitron> downloading
[19:21] <hamitron> :)
[19:29] <hamitron> jacobw, storing a usb wire? :|
[19:29] <jacobw> its clever
[19:29] <hamitron> I guess
[19:30] <hamitron> I just plug all cables in, and throw the excess behind the desk.... then leave till I change everything
[19:30] <hamitron> ;)
[19:32] <jacobw> where's the fun in that!
[19:33] <hamitron> I get all the "fun" when untangling them all ;)
[19:34] <daftykins> lmao
[19:34] <hamitron> I also suspect doing that to a cable lots, will make it look shabby very quick
[19:34] <hamitron> :/
[19:34] <jacobw> hmph
[19:34] <daftykins> aka when neighbourhood cats start disappearing around hamitron's place
[19:35] <hamitron> cats? :|
[19:35] <daftykins> yes
[19:35] <daftykins> frustration of cable untying leads to cat death
[19:35] <jacobw> hehe
[19:35] <hamitron> :))
[19:35] <daftykins> sorry, i suppose i am a tad cryptic sometimes
[19:36] <daftykins> that is, when i'm not making sweeping generalisations
[19:36] <daftykins> *whistle*
[19:36] <hamitron> lucky for the kittens, I am too lazy to change setup often
[19:36] <hamitron> haha
[19:36] <daftykins> right, i fed the army (3 cats and 1 dog) so now it's time to feed me \o/
[19:36]  * hamitron is just tired
[19:36] <daftykins> it's the face you make when you look behind the desk though
[19:36] <jacobw> do you feed them first so they don't bother you while your feeding yourself?
[19:37] <daftykins> http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/075/873/original/Raisins_Face.jpg
[19:37] <daftykins> jacobw: err just my approach to chores really, i'm home alone this weekend so i get things done by making myself 'earn' things :)
[19:37] <daftykins> plus i find i can enjoy things more once the daily tedium is out of the way
[19:41] <Azelphur> my £15 scanner off fleabay seems to work :D
[19:41] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[19:44] <hamitron> Azelphur, how many keys does your keyboard have?
[19:44] <daftykins> whoa whoa whoa... Azelphur in functional-computering shocker!
[19:44] <daftykins> stop the press!
[19:45] <daftykins> :)
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> News at 11
[19:49] <Myrtti> I wish I could get our wifi-connectable scanner to work over wifi in Ubuntu
[19:49] <MartijnVdS> http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu2unhqHhk1qmozq4o1_500.jpg
[19:49] <Myrtti> I know it works like a charm if I connect to the machine with USB but that's so passe
[19:49] <Azelphur> hamitron: my G19? A standard 102(?) key keyboard with 12 G-Keys, 4 M-Keys, an extra D-Pad, Menu, Ok, Back, Settings, LCD On/Off. It also has media keys (play, stop, back, forward, mute and a volume wheel)
[19:50] <Azelphur> hamitron: my G13 has 22 G-Keys, an anologue joystick, 2 shoulder buttons, 4 M-Keys, 5 LCD keys and an LCD On/Off button
[19:50] <hamitron> Azelphur, I mean the midi/usb musical keyboard/piano
[19:50] <Azelphur> ohhh
[19:50] <hamitron> :D
[19:50] <Azelphur> 61
[19:50] <jacobw> !ping
[19:50] <lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
[19:51] <hamitron> you find that is enough for when using 2 hands?
[19:51] <daftykins> Myrtti: i managed to avoid that by getting a lovely multi-function printer with a scanner that pushes the resulting image/PDF to SAMBA shares \o/
[19:51] <alexamway> привет.
[19:51] <Myrtti> daftykins: ooer
[19:51] <Myrtti> nice
[19:51] <alexamway> люди подскажите как на русский канал помощи убунты попасть ?
[19:51] <DJones> !ru | alexamway
[19:51] <lubotu3`> alexamway: Пожалуйста наберите /join #ubuntu-ru для получения помощи на русском языке. | Pozhalujsta naberite /join #ubuntu-ru dlya polucheniya pomoshi na russkom yazyke.
[19:52] <alexamway> ok. senkyu
[19:52] <jacobw> ukrainian
[19:52] <daftykins> jacobw: bless you
[19:52] <jacobw> ;)
[19:54] <DJones> alexamway: You're welcome
[19:54] <alexamway> (02:53:07) Cannot send to channel
[19:55] <alexamway> там такая хрень вылезла.... шо с чатом ?
[19:55] <alexamway> ssory. i"am noo speak eng\uk
[19:56] <daftykins> alexamway: you cannot speak in #ubuntu-ru ? maybe you must register
[19:56] <daftykins> !register
[19:56] <lubotu3`> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type « /nick <nickname> » to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
[19:57] <alexamway> !register
[19:57] <lubotu3`> Information about registering your nickname: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat/Registration - Type « /nick <nickname> » to select your nickname. Registration help available by typing /join #freenode
[19:57] <alexamway> незнаю что делать
[19:57] <alexamway> :(
[19:58] <daftykins> my dog just gave me a look as though the fireworks outside are my doing and mark the end of the world
[20:04] <jacobw> Ник на IRC-сервере регистрируется так: /msg nickserv register <password> <e-mail> .  Подробнее про регистрацию: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration >> Валидируйте ник  по почте! <<
[20:05] <jacobw> alexamway
[20:06] <alexamway> что ?
[20:06] <ali1234> where'd you get that translation?
[20:06] <jacobw> ali1234: #ubuntu-ru
[20:06] <ali1234> of course :)
[20:07] <ali1234> 'незнаю' is the only russian word i know
[20:07] <jacobw> i know no Russian words
[20:07] <ali1234> it means 'don't know'/'don't understand'
[20:08] <DJones> Heh, the google translate of that is quite odd
[20:09]  * jacobw will remember that word
[20:09] <hamitron> "I'm sorry, but I'm too dumb to understand"
[20:09] <ali1234> yeah. from 5 years of russian lessons that is all i remember
[20:10] <hamitron> :/
[20:10] <jacobw> i studied german for a year at school, the only thing i remeber is what the classroom looked like :(
[20:10] <hamitron> not even the teacher? ;)
[20:11] <jacobw> aside from guten morgen/tag danke/bitte and ich habe meine breiftasche verloren
[20:11] <daftykins> XD
[20:12] <daftykins> that's not bad
[20:12] <daftykins> i did about 6 years of German, forgot all rules of grammar practically but i can still remember tonnes of words
[20:12] <daftykins> swap brieftasche for regenschirm (umbrella) and you've got yourself a currently relevant statement! :D
[20:12] <jacobw> haha
[20:13] <daftykins> i got PROPERLY wee'd on today riding into town
[20:13] <daftykins> oh my lawd
[20:13] <daftykins> i was cycling with one eye open as my eyebrows are distinctly fail-brows
[20:14] <jacobw> oh dear
[20:15] <daftykins> yep it came down that heavily
[20:15] <jacobw> i saw a man do an emergency stop on a bicycle today and fly over the handbars
[20:15] <daftykins> trust me, a welcome sight is most definitely not speeding cars in the rain down narrow Guernsey roads through one eye :D
[20:16] <daftykins> :O erk
[20:16] <daftykins> what was he avoiding?
[20:17] <jacobw> er, he was cycling along the pavement about to go straitover a side road when he saw a car coming out the side road
[20:18] <hamitron> hope he hurt himself
[20:18] <hamitron> ;/
[20:18] <jacobw> obviously, he shouldn't have been cycling on the pavement
[20:20] <hamitron> ouuu, chocolate Santas
[20:20] <hamitron> :)
[20:54] <mattt> happy friday everyone
[21:11] <AlanBell> looks like they are going to drop mono from the desktop CD
[21:11] <AlanBell> moving from Banshee back to Rhythmbox
[21:12] <BigRedS> Whoo!
[21:12] <BigRedS> I've nothing against mono, but I much prefer Rhythmbox to Banshee
[21:12] <BigRedS> But also my prediction of something surprising with every upgrade *still* holds true :(
[21:14] <jacobw> odd
[21:18] <jacobw> is anyone watching derren brown on c4?
[21:40] <mattt> nah, was watching the rugby
[21:41] <jacobw> its quite special
[23:20] <alexcockell> Hi all..
[23:41] <alexcockell> Hi drussell..
[23:42] <alexcockell> Was meaning to ask any of you here.. who else is running on NVidia-based netbooks and having hassles with the latest iPlayer playout client?
[23:47] <alexcockell> As in - version 3 of the Embedded Media Client basically won'ty work with Flash 11 - due to relying so much on Stage 3D.. which Adobe ripped out of the Linux Flash build..
[23:53] <gord> alexcockell, hey, no idea. but you might want to ask at a more high bandwidth time, or on the email mailing list - midnight on a friday really isn't the best time to get support in a uk irc channel ;)
[23:54] <alexcockell> Yeah - I know.. but was hoping to just flag it...
[23:54] <alexcockell> Basically the Beeb have locked out versions of Flash older than 10.1....
[23:55] <alexcockell> ... but Adobe ripped out Stage Video accel from Flash 11...
[23:55] <alexcockell> So - you run a netbook with an ION 1 chip in... iPlayer won't run worth anything..
[23:56] <hamitron> get_iplayer?
[23:56] <alexcockell> That's working around the problem..
[23:56] <alexcockell> Not, say, packaging up Flash 10.3 so users have a 100% legit backout option
[23:57] <alexcockell> My R61i will happily run iPlayer - as it's based on Intel X3100 - CPU handles the lot..
[23:57] <alexcockell> ... but an Atom N270 doesn't have the grunt..
[23:58] <ali1234> what's a playout client?
[23:59] <alexcockell> BBC iPlayer Embedded Media Player v3.
[23:59] <alexcockell> The Flash client on the website - you know - when you browse to the page to play the content.