/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/06/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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scott-upstairsthe ubuntu studio team should be starting their meeting in two minutes16:58
scott-upstairsthe meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September416:58
astraljava#startmeeting Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting17:00
meetingologyMeeting started Sun Nov  6 17:00:48 2011 UTC.  The chair is astraljava. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.17:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired17:00
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astraljavaHello everybody.17:00
astraljavaWho's with us today?17:01
scott-upstairshello astraljava17:01
scott-upstairsi am here17:01
stochasticHi17:01
stochasticcan't stay too long17:01
scott-upstairsholstein and falktx said they would not be present today17:01
astraljavaRight, okay. Do we have an agenda?17:01
scott-upstairsstochastic, how much time, do you have preferred topics to discuss now17:01
scott-upstairsagend:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September417:01
scott-upstairsagenda17:01
stochasticjust the sooner I get on the road today the happier I will be, preferably no more than 30min17:02
astraljavaSame as from the last one?17:02
scott-upstairsstochastic, ack17:02
astraljavaOk. What are the most important topics, Scott?17:02
scott-upstairsastraljava, no, i unfortunately updated the wrong one (i.e. sept)17:02
astraljavaAhh... okay, that's fine.17:03
scott-upstairsso the agenda in the link is correct in scope, just not on the right wiki, i will resolve that after the meeting17:03
scott-upstairsokay, i won't bother reading the old business in the meeting17:03
scott-upstairsi will quickly explain the new development process for the ubuntu studio team17:04
scott-upstairswe will be actively involved with the release planning team this cycle17:04
astraljava#topic New development process17:04
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scott-upstairswe will collate a group of tasks we want into blueprints within launchpad17:04
scott-upstairskate stewart, the release manager, will approve them as she sees fit17:04
scott-upstairsour progress will then be tracked on the status.ubuntu.com site17:05
scott-upstairsif anyone has questions how this works, please let me know outside the meeting17:05
scott-upstairs 17:05
astraljavaSounds good, thanks.17:05
scott-upstairsthis is good because it forces us to be organized17:05
scott-upstairsbut it also holds us accountable as our progress (or lack of) will be extremely public17:06
scott-upstairsbut this also gives us a forum for resolution if someone is blocking us this cycle17:06
astraljavaThat is true.17:06
scott-upstairsdone17:06
astraljavaOk, any comments/questions regarding this topic?17:06
stochasticjust want to say that I'd love a step-by-step e-mail to be sent to the dev list regarding the process if that's possible17:07
stochastici.e. how do I get task x approved etc..17:07
stochastickeep everyone in the loop17:07
astraljavaSure, we can work something out, right Scott?17:08
scott-upstairsstochastic, i can do that, but i should point out that this is something done only at the beginning of the cycle (i.e. getting blueprints approved)17:08
stochasticokay17:08
scott-upstairsi should probably also note this in a wiki somewhere, i'll work on that too17:08
scott-upstairsi'm good17:09
astraljava#action Scott document devel process in the wiki17:09
meetingologyACTION: Scott document devel process in the wiki17:09
astraljava#topic Release planning for Precise17:09
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scott-upstairshas anyone NOT looked at the release planning wiki?17:09
scott-upstairsi don't want to over commit the team17:10
scott-upstairshi shnatsel17:10
shnatselhi scott-upstairs17:10
scott-upstairsso i wanted to make sure that people agree with what is preliminarily planned17:10
stochasticI like the scope of the release plan17:10
scott-upstairsthank you starcraftman17:11
scott-upstairsstochastic,17:11
astraljavaYeah it shouldn't be impossible.17:11
scott-upstairssorry, starcraftman17:11
scott-upstairsshnatsel, any opinion on the scope of precise release planning https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning17:11
scott-upstairsi think most of the tasks already have people (mainly me) associated with them, so we will be asking people to commit as well17:12
astraljavaWe can't just do it now, as there's not many in here.17:12
stochasticI just wanted to briefly mention that I'd like to revisit the concept of putting a 'documentation' link on the desktop.17:12
astraljavaSo I suppose we will ask people to assign themselves due some time?17:13
stochasticThis can fit under UI redesign and I'd be happy to help with that task in general17:13
scott-upstairsastraljava, i agree, we don't need to assign everything today, just getting the agreement on the scope was enough to move forward with the release team17:13
astraljavaOk.17:13
scott-upstairsstochastic, there are several items for "new users" i would like to address as well, but unless they are liminted in scope or studid-simple i was planning on deferring them to later17:14
scott-upstairsyou can see them in the release planning page as well17:14
shnatselscott-upstairs: I want more graphics apps. The doc is large, needs thinking.17:14
scott-upstairsstarcraftman, look under precise+1 -> new user support17:14
stochasticquit it with the starcraftman17:14
stochasticI see thanks17:15
shnatselscott-upstairs: popups tend to not work usually17:15
scott-upstairsstochastic, sorry again17:15
shnatselscott-upstairs: they're too intrusive17:15
scott-upstairsshnatsel, that is just brainstorming, i expect others have better methods to accomplish the goals ;)17:15
astraljavaYes, agreed.17:15
shnatselscott-upstairs: also, you'll need the support to be somewhat localized... and adding bookmarks to firefox doesn't work, I've tried that.17:15
scott-upstairsshnatsel, also, we can certainly explore more graphic applications17:15
scott-upstairshi JonReagan17:16
scott-upstairsas long as everyone is okay with the scope of precise development then we can discuss the particulars later17:16
stochasticyup17:16
JonReaganhello Scott  :)  Sorry I'm a bit late17:16
astraljavaOk, anything else regarding this topic?17:16
shnatselastraljava: yes17:17
shnatselscott-upstairs: when are you going to introduce workflows in the installer instead of broad categories? 12.10?17:17
astraljavaGo ahead.17:17
scott-upstairsshnatsel, that is the next topic actually ;)17:17
scott-upstairsbut it will be this cycle17:17
astraljavaYes, thank you. :)17:17
shnatselah :D17:17
shnatselgreat!17:17
astraljava#topic Updating seeds based on workflows17:17
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shnatselscott-upstairs: why it's not in the planning doc then?17:18
scott-upstairsshnatsel, part of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#live_dvd17:18
scott-upstairsi'll explain a bit for those not familiar17:18
scott-upstairsour goals is to do something similar to what tasksel did during the alternate installation where users could pick certain package sets to install or not install17:19
scott-upstairshowever, going to the live dvd will will use a GUI method that edubuntu is currently using17:19
scott-upstairsand we will base this on work flows, instead of just broad categories17:19
scott-upstairshttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/livedvd has more resources17:20
scott-upstairs 17:20
astraljavaThanks. Comments/questions?17:20
shnatseldo we need the alternate image at all?17:20
scott-upstairsthe exact work flows do not have to be decided this meeting but hopefully we can decide _which_ work flows we will support17:20
JonReaganAh, workflows meaning packages that would pertain to what people want to do with their system?17:20
scott-upstairsif not the exact contents of each work flow17:21
shnatselJonReagan: yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows17:21
scott-upstairsshnatsel, i believe we should not make an alternate dvd17:21
scott-upstairserr, alternate image17:21
shnatselI think so too17:21
scott-upstairsJonReagan, rather than make a large cache of audio applications we want to support a smaller, less intrusive package set based on a smaller granularity17:22
scott-upstairswe will targe what people actually want to accomplish17:22
scott-upstairsrather than a broad generalized term17:22
JonReagangotcha, that makes a lot of sense17:22
scott-upstairseveryone can see what is listed for the work flows at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#live_dvd17:23
scott-upstairsi'll send out an email to the list to solicit peoples opinions so we can make a decision next week17:23
astraljavaI'll just have a comment on this; let's not get carried away and add too many of those. This is going to be supported for 3 years.17:23
scott-upstairsaye!  very, very good point17:23
shnatselastraljava: 5 years?17:23
scott-upstairsthis LTS is supported for 5 years17:23
astraljavashnatsel: No, that's just server edition.17:23
astraljavaReally?17:24
astraljavaAll of it?17:24
scott-upstairsastraljava, they have changed policy during uds17:24
astraljavaHoly c**p.17:24
scott-upstairsthey are trying to embrace corporations more17:24
astraljavaI stand corrected.17:24
scott-upstairswe'll see where it goes and adjust later17:24
astraljavaEven more so.17:24
scott-upstairsastraljava's point still remains, we should ease into this (even if it wasn't an LTS)17:25
scott-upstairsand we still have the opportunity to adjust next cycle if we want to add something17:25
scott-upstairsand backport back to precise if we feel something is worth it17:25
astraljavaYep, thanks.17:25
scott-upstairsso i am strongly suggesting we are cautious and prudent17:25
scott-upstairsany further comments or questions at this time?17:26
shnatselnow postponing workflows to 12.10 sounds like a good idea17:26
scott-upstairsastraljava, can you make the bot recognize i should email the list about work flows?17:26
shnatselcan we really develop and polish them in a cycle?17:26
astraljava#action Scott to email lists regarding work flows17:26
meetingologyACTION: Scott to email lists regarding work flows17:26
scott-upstairsshnatsel, do you really want to?  i would think getting the process established now would be good17:26
scott-upstairswe can continue refining the work flows each cycle as needed then17:27
astraljavaI agree, this one is going to be present for a long time. Better include it now.17:27
shnatselI'm neutral on this.17:27
scott-upstairsas long as we can give at least the same functionality as we did with the alternate cd i don't see a downside at this point17:27
stochasticessentially the concept between selecting workflows and selecting a bunch of software bundles is the same, we just label and organize them slightly differently?17:27
scott-upstairsstochastic, from the user perspective, i would say yes17:28
stochasticokay, but we'd be re-arranging packaging from the dev perspective?17:28
shnatselstochastic: from dev perspective also17:28
shnatselstochastic: just requires much more fine-grained selection17:28
scott-upstairsstochastic, i would say yes again17:28
astraljavaWhat does that mean exactly?17:29
scott-upstairsstochastic, but i would describe it more as we are re-arranging the package sets but not really the packaging17:29
scott-upstairsastraljava, which part are you asking about?17:30
stochasticwell I think it is a do-able concept with very few modifications required.  The largest problem will be selecting the ideal workflows to include - that's a big list.17:30
scott-upstairsstochastic, agreed!  this is one reason to focus small on this set17:30
astraljavaRe-arranging packaging from dev perspective?17:30
scott-upstairsalso, not all work flows are a) complete or b) desired17:30
scott-upstairswe should consider if we feel a large group of users actually desire a work flow17:30
stochasticastraljava, we'd be heavily adjusting the content/labelling of the meta packages17:31
astraljavaOk.17:31
scott-upstairsany further comments or questions?17:32
stochasticyes, this is a task best handled by a committee I think17:32
scott-upstairsagreed!  oh, i defintely agree!17:32
stochasticbut done for 12.0417:32
JonReagan+1 on that17:32
scott-upstairsstochastic, please keep in mind we only need to decide _which_ work flows soon, not just _what_ exactly is in each one17:33
scott-upstairsthis may seem strange, but hear me out17:33
scott-upstairsi think we should look at what the users want to do17:33
stochasticyes, true17:33
JonReaganwould this mean some sort of survey?17:33
scott-upstairsif we think we can support it, then we can consider it for inclusion17:33
scott-upstairsthen later we can fine tune the contents of the ones we will support17:33
scott-upstairsobvsiously we WILL need to examine the contents first if we are not sure we can support it properly before deciding about inclusion17:34
scott-upstairsJonReagan, it could, but perhaps we should discuss that in the next meeting17:34
scott-upstairsi would be completely open to a meeting of anyone interested to discuss these things outside of this meeting17:35
astraljava#action Have a separate meeting for work flows discussion17:35
meetingologyACTION: Have a separate meeting for work flows discussion17:35
scott-upstairswho would be interested in such a meeting?17:35
scott-upstairsi would17:35
astraljavao/17:35
stochasticaie17:35
scott-upstairsi'm sure holstein would be as well17:36
JonReaganI'd be interested for sure17:36
scott-upstairsgood :)  basically everyone17:36
shnatselprobably me too17:36
scott-upstairsi can send out an email to coordinate times then17:36
scott-upstairsis this a good time for almost everyone?  earlier?  later?17:36
astraljavaWe just don't have everyone here, so we'll throw some suggestions for times on the -devel channel and mailing list later?17:36
astraljavaAhh, one step ahead of me, sorry.17:37
stochasticgood time, but depends on the week as to if this day is free for me17:37
scott-upstairswould someone else but me email the list for this purpose, i have enough tasks already17:37
astraljavaGood time for me.17:37
astraljavaI can do that.17:37
JonReagansure, I could send out an email17:37
astraljavaOh okay, Jon, go ahead.17:37
astraljavaMoving on?17:38
scott-upstairsis it okay if we move on?17:38
scott-upstairshehe17:38
* stochastic needs to be leaving soon17:38
astraljava#topic Meeting schedule17:38
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JonReaganAlrighty then.  What should be said?  Need a meeting to discuss workflows, ask for which time works best on Sunday?17:38
scott-upstairsi have a few questions about making our meetings more effective17:38
scott-upstairsJonReagan, stochastic needs to leave, can you and i coordinate after this meeting?17:39
JonReaganabsolutely17:39
scott-upstairshow often should we have meetings?17:39
scott-upstairsshould we alternate times between meetings for our european friends?17:39
stochasticbi-weekly or weekly would be good for informal, monthly for formal team meeting?17:39
scott-upstairsshould have stagger meetings with "informal" meetings in between?17:39
astraljavaI'm good for weekly.17:40
astraljavaWhatever the formality.17:40
scott-upstairsstochastic, would you suggest using a regular time for the "informal" meetings?17:40
scott-upstairsnot asking you to actually suggest a time right now, just qualify if you think we _should_ use a regular time17:40
stochasticyes, a set hour where it's generally anticipated that people would be around17:40
scott-upstairsi have opinions but don't want to bias the group17:40
shnatselbi-weekly preferred here (I'm ok with not attending half of meetings, though, and you're probably OK with me missing too)17:40
scott-upstairslol shnatsel , you are important man!17:41
scott-upstairsbut i understand as well17:41
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JonReaganI'd be up for weekly meetings, we have an awful lot to do before the next release17:41
astraljavaAgreed.17:41
scott-upstairsthe general consensus i'm seeing is weekly meetings, but perhaps alternating "formal" and "informal"?17:41
shnatselweekly will definitely make the dev process more lively.17:42
scott-upstairsboth using an agreed time?17:42
JonReaganfor predictability, I'd say yes17:42
astraljavaPreferably, but subject to change if necessary.17:42
JonReaganagreed17:42
stochasticto explain 'formal' and 'informal' I think one would be in here, logged, with an agenda, the other, in -dev with minimal agenda17:43
scott-upstairsperhaps we alternate times between week#1 and week#3 for the "formal meeting" and the same for #2 and #4 for "informal"?17:43
astraljavaSounds good to me.17:43
scott-upstairsstochastic, +117:43
scott-upstairsokay, let's go with that and we can make changes as necessary as astraljava and stochastic are saying17:43
scott-upstairsany other comments or questions?17:44
stochasticI really feel formal will only be needed monthly, but that's just a minor technicality that can be adjusted later17:44
astraljava#action Move to bi-weekly formal and informal meetings alternating17:44
meetingologyACTION: Move to bi-weekly formal and informal meetings alternating17:44
scott-upstairsastraljava, what was that sign you suggested to let the chair know we are done with a topic?17:44
scott-upstairswas it '..'17:44
scott-upstairsi.e.17:44
scott-upstairs..17:44
astraljavaYes, that would be good.17:44
astraljavaAnd asking for voices with o/ while someone is talking?17:45
astraljavaAs in not interrupting the talk.17:45
scott-upstairsif we can use .. to help the chair know when to move to the next topic, that would help the meeting progress17:45
scott-upstairsokay, i didn't know that one :)17:45
scott-upstairseveryone okay moving to next topic?17:45
astraljavaIt helps to keep the talk coherent.17:45
stochasticyup17:45
astraljava#topic Other business17:46
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scott-upstairsi have no other business17:46
astraljavaMe neither.17:46
stochasticI'd just like to say one brief thing17:46
stochasticIn the coming days it'd be nice if the devs could ponder how much social interaction they'd feel comfortable with on the new website.17:47
scott-upstairsstochastic, would you be up to emailing the -dev list about this?17:47
stochasticyes17:47
stochasticwill do17:48
scott-upstairsthis would be a good forum to aggregate opinions i think17:48
scott-upstairserr, that would be17:48
scott-upstairs..17:48
stochasticfor now, ponder away, I'm on vacation for a couple days17:48
scott-upstairsenjoy your vacation :)17:48
scott-upstairsnext topic?17:48
astraljava#topic Next meeting17:48
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scott-upstairsoi :)17:48
scott-upstairsokay, sounds like we will meet "formally" in two weeks17:49
scott-upstairssame bat channel, same bat time?  (american joke)17:49
stochasticsure17:49
astraljavaSo according to the decision today, we shall meet formally here on 2011.11.20 1700 UTC17:49
stochasticI might not make that meeting17:49
scott-upstairsstochastic, should we reschedule the time?17:50
scott-upstairsmove it ahead a day?17:50
JonReaganhaha, that would work for me.  you mentioned earlier perhaps finding a time that would work for both europe and in the US?17:50
astraljavaAnd informally on #ubuntustudio-devel on 2011.11.13 1700 UTC, unless otherwise signalled.17:50
scott-upstairsJonReagan, yes!  good point17:50
scott-upstairsshould the next "formal" meeting be euro friendly?17:50
stochasticscott-upstairs, no need to move it, just uncertain schedule at this point17:50
scott-upstairsperhaps move ahead 12 hours?17:51
scott-upstairsshnatsel, JonReagan, any suggestions?17:51
* scott-upstairs is presuming that JonReagan is in a european time zone17:51
astraljavaThat's gonna be 5 am. for me. Well, I can work it out.17:51
JonReaganlol nope, I'm EST17:51
shnatselI'm GMT+417:51
scott-upstairsshnatsel, do you have a preference what we should do for the next meeting in two weeks?17:52
stochasticeither case would be fine for me 9am or 9pm17:52
stochasticI like the idea of alternating, but I'm not sure how successful it will be :)17:53
astraljavaLet's have a voting on this later.17:53
astraljavaSo we can wrap up here.17:53
shnatselscott-upstairs: last time I checked there was only one time that fits both european and american useras17:53
shnatselusers17:53
shnatselI've found one, let me look it up...17:53
shnatselAsia is out ofc17:54
* stochastic is out for now. Will read the rest in meeting minutes17:54
stochasticgoodbye17:54
astraljavaBye.17:54
scott-upstairsbye stochastic ,enjoy the vacation :)17:54
scott-upstairsi actually need to go as well, JonReagan can you email me about what we were going to work on together or catch me later this afternoon in IRC?17:55
scott-upstairspoof17:55
astraljava#action Decide alternating meeting times on channel/mailing list later17:56
meetingologyACTION: Decide alternating meeting times on channel/mailing list later17:56
astraljava#endmeeting17:56
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meetingologyMeeting ended Sun Nov  6 17:56:27 2011 UTC.17:56
meetingologyMinutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-06-17.00.moin.txt17:56
astraljavaThanks everybody!17:56
JonReaganGreat meeting, talk to you all later!17:57
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starcraftmanToo many S names in this channel! hehe :)18:01
texaswritermore a names20:15

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