=== jason is now known as Guest38057 === Guest38057 is now known as jasef === yofel_ is now known as yofel === jason is now known as jasef [16:58] the ubuntu studio team should be starting their meeting in two minutes [16:58] the meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4 [17:00] #startmeeting Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting [17:00] Meeting started Sun Nov 6 17:00:48 2011 UTC. The chair is astraljava. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot. [17:00] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting Meeting | Current topic: [17:00] Hello everybody. [17:01] Who's with us today? [17:01] hello astraljava [17:01] i am here [17:01] Hi [17:01] can't stay too long [17:01] holstein and falktx said they would not be present today [17:01] Right, okay. Do we have an agenda? [17:01] stochastic, how much time, do you have preferred topics to discuss now [17:01] agend: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2011September4 [17:01] agenda [17:02] just the sooner I get on the road today the happier I will be, preferably no more than 30min [17:02] Same as from the last one? [17:02] stochastic, ack [17:02] Ok. What are the most important topics, Scott? [17:02] astraljava, no, i unfortunately updated the wrong one (i.e. sept) [17:03] Ahh... okay, that's fine. [17:03] so the agenda in the link is correct in scope, just not on the right wiki, i will resolve that after the meeting [17:03] okay, i won't bother reading the old business in the meeting [17:04] i will quickly explain the new development process for the ubuntu studio team [17:04] we will be actively involved with the release planning team this cycle [17:04] #topic New development process === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting Meeting | Current topic: New development process [17:04] we will collate a group of tasks we want into blueprints within launchpad [17:04] kate stewart, the release manager, will approve them as she sees fit [17:05] our progress will then be tracked on the status.ubuntu.com site [17:05] if anyone has questions how this works, please let me know outside the meeting [17:05] [17:05] Sounds good, thanks. [17:05] this is good because it forces us to be organized [17:06] but it also holds us accountable as our progress (or lack of) will be extremely public [17:06] but this also gives us a forum for resolution if someone is blocking us this cycle [17:06] That is true. [17:06] done [17:06] Ok, any comments/questions regarding this topic? [17:07] just want to say that I'd love a step-by-step e-mail to be sent to the dev list regarding the process if that's possible [17:07] i.e. how do I get task x approved etc.. [17:07] keep everyone in the loop [17:08] Sure, we can work something out, right Scott? [17:08] stochastic, i can do that, but i should point out that this is something done only at the beginning of the cycle (i.e. getting blueprints approved) [17:08] okay [17:08] i should probably also note this in a wiki somewhere, i'll work on that too [17:09] i'm good [17:09] #action Scott document devel process in the wiki [17:09] ACTION: Scott document devel process in the wiki [17:09] #topic Release planning for Precise === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting Meeting | Current topic: Release planning for Precise [17:09] has anyone NOT looked at the release planning wiki? [17:10] i don't want to over commit the team [17:10] hi shnatsel [17:10] hi scott-upstairs [17:10] so i wanted to make sure that people agree with what is preliminarily planned [17:10] I like the scope of the release plan [17:11] thank you starcraftman [17:11] stochastic, [17:11] Yeah it shouldn't be impossible. [17:11] sorry, starcraftman [17:11] shnatsel, any opinion on the scope of precise release planning https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning [17:12] i think most of the tasks already have people (mainly me) associated with them, so we will be asking people to commit as well [17:12] We can't just do it now, as there's not many in here. [17:12] I just wanted to briefly mention that I'd like to revisit the concept of putting a 'documentation' link on the desktop. [17:13] So I suppose we will ask people to assign themselves due some time? [17:13] This can fit under UI redesign and I'd be happy to help with that task in general [17:13] astraljava, i agree, we don't need to assign everything today, just getting the agreement on the scope was enough to move forward with the release team [17:13] Ok. [17:14] stochastic, there are several items for "new users" i would like to address as well, but unless they are liminted in scope or studid-simple i was planning on deferring them to later [17:14] you can see them in the release planning page as well [17:14] scott-upstairs: I want more graphics apps. The doc is large, needs thinking. [17:14] starcraftman, look under precise+1 -> new user support [17:14] quit it with the starcraftman [17:15] I see thanks [17:15] scott-upstairs: popups tend to not work usually [17:15] stochastic, sorry again [17:15] scott-upstairs: they're too intrusive [17:15] shnatsel, that is just brainstorming, i expect others have better methods to accomplish the goals ;) [17:15] Yes, agreed. [17:15] scott-upstairs: also, you'll need the support to be somewhat localized... and adding bookmarks to firefox doesn't work, I've tried that. [17:15] shnatsel, also, we can certainly explore more graphic applications [17:16] hi JonReagan [17:16] as long as everyone is okay with the scope of precise development then we can discuss the particulars later [17:16] yup [17:16] hello Scott :) Sorry I'm a bit late [17:16] Ok, anything else regarding this topic? [17:17] astraljava: yes [17:17] scott-upstairs: when are you going to introduce workflows in the installer instead of broad categories? 12.10? [17:17] Go ahead. [17:17] shnatsel, that is the next topic actually ;) [17:17] but it will be this cycle [17:17] Yes, thank you. :) [17:17] ah :D [17:17] great! [17:17] #topic Updating seeds based on workflows === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting Meeting | Current topic: Updating seeds based on workflows [17:18] scott-upstairs: why it's not in the planning doc then? [17:18] shnatsel, part of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#live_dvd [17:18] i'll explain a bit for those not familiar [17:19] our goals is to do something similar to what tasksel did during the alternate installation where users could pick certain package sets to install or not install [17:19] however, going to the live dvd will will use a GUI method that edubuntu is currently using [17:19] and we will base this on work flows, instead of just broad categories [17:20] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntustudio/+spec/livedvd has more resources [17:20] [17:20] Thanks. Comments/questions? [17:20] do we need the alternate image at all? [17:20] the exact work flows do not have to be decided this meeting but hopefully we can decide _which_ work flows we will support [17:20] Ah, workflows meaning packages that would pertain to what people want to do with their system? [17:21] if not the exact contents of each work flow [17:21] JonReagan: yes, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Workflows [17:21] shnatsel, i believe we should not make an alternate dvd [17:21] err, alternate image [17:21] I think so too [17:22] JonReagan, rather than make a large cache of audio applications we want to support a smaller, less intrusive package set based on a smaller granularity [17:22] we will targe what people actually want to accomplish [17:22] rather than a broad generalized term [17:22] gotcha, that makes a lot of sense [17:23] everyone can see what is listed for the work flows at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#live_dvd [17:23] i'll send out an email to the list to solicit peoples opinions so we can make a decision next week [17:23] I'll just have a comment on this; let's not get carried away and add too many of those. This is going to be supported for 3 years. [17:23] aye! very, very good point [17:23] astraljava: 5 years? [17:23] this LTS is supported for 5 years [17:23] shnatsel: No, that's just server edition. [17:24] Really? [17:24] All of it? [17:24] astraljava, they have changed policy during uds [17:24] Holy c**p. [17:24] they are trying to embrace corporations more [17:24] I stand corrected. [17:24] we'll see where it goes and adjust later [17:24] Even more so. [17:25] astraljava's point still remains, we should ease into this (even if it wasn't an LTS) [17:25] and we still have the opportunity to adjust next cycle if we want to add something [17:25] and backport back to precise if we feel something is worth it [17:25] Yep, thanks. [17:25] so i am strongly suggesting we are cautious and prudent [17:26] any further comments or questions at this time? [17:26] now postponing workflows to 12.10 sounds like a good idea [17:26] astraljava, can you make the bot recognize i should email the list about work flows? [17:26] can we really develop and polish them in a cycle? [17:26] #action Scott to email lists regarding work flows [17:26] ACTION: Scott to email lists regarding work flows [17:26] shnatsel, do you really want to? i would think getting the process established now would be good [17:27] we can continue refining the work flows each cycle as needed then [17:27] I agree, this one is going to be present for a long time. Better include it now. [17:27] I'm neutral on this. [17:27] as long as we can give at least the same functionality as we did with the alternate cd i don't see a downside at this point [17:27] essentially the concept between selecting workflows and selecting a bunch of software bundles is the same, we just label and organize them slightly differently? [17:28] stochastic, from the user perspective, i would say yes [17:28] okay, but we'd be re-arranging packaging from the dev perspective? [17:28] stochastic: from dev perspective also [17:28] stochastic: just requires much more fine-grained selection [17:28] stochastic, i would say yes again [17:29] What does that mean exactly? [17:29] stochastic, but i would describe it more as we are re-arranging the package sets but not really the packaging [17:30] astraljava, which part are you asking about? [17:30] well I think it is a do-able concept with very few modifications required. The largest problem will be selecting the ideal workflows to include - that's a big list. [17:30] stochastic, agreed! this is one reason to focus small on this set [17:30] Re-arranging packaging from dev perspective? [17:30] also, not all work flows are a) complete or b) desired [17:30] we should consider if we feel a large group of users actually desire a work flow [17:31] astraljava, we'd be heavily adjusting the content/labelling of the meta packages [17:31] Ok. [17:32] any further comments or questions? [17:32] yes, this is a task best handled by a committee I think [17:32] agreed! oh, i defintely agree! [17:32] but done for 12.04 [17:32] +1 on that [17:33] stochastic, please keep in mind we only need to decide _which_ work flows soon, not just _what_ exactly is in each one [17:33] this may seem strange, but hear me out [17:33] i think we should look at what the users want to do [17:33] yes, true [17:33] would this mean some sort of survey? [17:33] if we think we can support it, then we can consider it for inclusion [17:33] then later we can fine tune the contents of the ones we will support [17:34] obvsiously we WILL need to examine the contents first if we are not sure we can support it properly before deciding about inclusion [17:34] JonReagan, it could, but perhaps we should discuss that in the next meeting [17:35] i would be completely open to a meeting of anyone interested to discuss these things outside of this meeting [17:35] #action Have a separate meeting for work flows discussion [17:35] ACTION: Have a separate meeting for work flows discussion [17:35] who would be interested in such a meeting? [17:35] i would [17:35] o/ [17:35] aie [17:36] i'm sure holstein would be as well [17:36] I'd be interested for sure [17:36] good :) basically everyone [17:36] probably me too [17:36] i can send out an email to coordinate times then [17:36] is this a good time for almost everyone? earlier? later? [17:36] We just don't have everyone here, so we'll throw some suggestions for times on the -devel channel and mailing list later? [17:37] Ahh, one step ahead of me, sorry. [17:37] good time, but depends on the week as to if this day is free for me [17:37] would someone else but me email the list for this purpose, i have enough tasks already [17:37] Good time for me. [17:37] I can do that. [17:37] sure, I could send out an email [17:37] Oh okay, Jon, go ahead. [17:38] Moving on? [17:38] is it okay if we move on? [17:38] hehe [17:38] * stochastic needs to be leaving soon [17:38] #topic Meeting schedule === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting Meeting | Current topic: Meeting schedule [17:38] Alrighty then. What should be said? Need a meeting to discuss workflows, ask for which time works best on Sunday? [17:38] i have a few questions about making our meetings more effective [17:39] JonReagan, stochastic needs to leave, can you and i coordinate after this meeting? [17:39] absolutely [17:39] how often should we have meetings? [17:39] should we alternate times between meetings for our european friends? [17:39] bi-weekly or weekly would be good for informal, monthly for formal team meeting? [17:39] should have stagger meetings with "informal" meetings in between? [17:40] I'm good for weekly. [17:40] Whatever the formality. [17:40] stochastic, would you suggest using a regular time for the "informal" meetings? [17:40] not asking you to actually suggest a time right now, just qualify if you think we _should_ use a regular time [17:40] yes, a set hour where it's generally anticipated that people would be around [17:40] i have opinions but don't want to bias the group [17:40] bi-weekly preferred here (I'm ok with not attending half of meetings, though, and you're probably OK with me missing too) [17:41] lol shnatsel , you are important man! [17:41] but i understand as well === emma is now known as Em [17:41] I'd be up for weekly meetings, we have an awful lot to do before the next release [17:41] Agreed. [17:41] the general consensus i'm seeing is weekly meetings, but perhaps alternating "formal" and "informal"? [17:42] weekly will definitely make the dev process more lively. [17:42] both using an agreed time? [17:42] for predictability, I'd say yes [17:42] Preferably, but subject to change if necessary. [17:42] agreed [17:43] to explain 'formal' and 'informal' I think one would be in here, logged, with an agenda, the other, in -dev with minimal agenda [17:43] perhaps we alternate times between week#1 and week#3 for the "formal meeting" and the same for #2 and #4 for "informal"? [17:43] Sounds good to me. [17:43] stochastic, +1 [17:43] okay, let's go with that and we can make changes as necessary as astraljava and stochastic are saying [17:44] any other comments or questions? [17:44] I really feel formal will only be needed monthly, but that's just a minor technicality that can be adjusted later [17:44] #action Move to bi-weekly formal and informal meetings alternating [17:44] ACTION: Move to bi-weekly formal and informal meetings alternating [17:44] astraljava, what was that sign you suggested to let the chair know we are done with a topic? [17:44] was it '..' [17:44] i.e. [17:44] .. [17:44] Yes, that would be good. [17:45] And asking for voices with o/ while someone is talking? [17:45] As in not interrupting the talk. [17:45] if we can use .. to help the chair know when to move to the next topic, that would help the meeting progress [17:45] okay, i didn't know that one :) [17:45] everyone okay moving to next topic? [17:45] It helps to keep the talk coherent. [17:45] yup [17:46] #topic Other business === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting Meeting | Current topic: Other business [17:46] i have no other business [17:46] Me neither. [17:46] I'd just like to say one brief thing [17:47] In the coming days it'd be nice if the devs could ponder how much social interaction they'd feel comfortable with on the new website. [17:47] stochastic, would you be up to emailing the -dev list about this? [17:47] yes [17:48] will do [17:48] this would be a good forum to aggregate opinions i think [17:48] err, that would be [17:48] .. [17:48] for now, ponder away, I'm on vacation for a couple days [17:48] enjoy your vacation :) [17:48] next topic? [17:48] #topic Next meeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Studio collaborator meeting Meeting | Current topic: Next meeting [17:48] oi :) [17:49] okay, sounds like we will meet "formally" in two weeks [17:49] same bat channel, same bat time? (american joke) [17:49] sure [17:49] So according to the decision today, we shall meet formally here on 2011.11.20 1700 UTC [17:49] I might not make that meeting [17:50] stochastic, should we reschedule the time? [17:50] move it ahead a day? [17:50] haha, that would work for me. you mentioned earlier perhaps finding a time that would work for both europe and in the US? [17:50] And informally on #ubuntustudio-devel on 2011.11.13 1700 UTC, unless otherwise signalled. [17:50] JonReagan, yes! good point [17:50] should the next "formal" meeting be euro friendly? [17:50] scott-upstairs, no need to move it, just uncertain schedule at this point [17:51] perhaps move ahead 12 hours? [17:51] shnatsel, JonReagan, any suggestions? [17:51] * scott-upstairs is presuming that JonReagan is in a european time zone [17:51] That's gonna be 5 am. for me. Well, I can work it out. [17:51] lol nope, I'm EST [17:51] I'm GMT+4 [17:52] shnatsel, do you have a preference what we should do for the next meeting in two weeks? [17:52] either case would be fine for me 9am or 9pm [17:53] I like the idea of alternating, but I'm not sure how successful it will be :) [17:53] Let's have a voting on this later. [17:53] So we can wrap up here. [17:53] scott-upstairs: last time I checked there was only one time that fits both european and american useras [17:53] users [17:53] I've found one, let me look it up... [17:54] Asia is out ofc [17:54] * stochastic is out for now. Will read the rest in meeting minutes [17:54] goodbye [17:54] Bye. [17:54] bye stochastic ,enjoy the vacation :) [17:55] i actually need to go as well, JonReagan can you email me about what we were going to work on together or catch me later this afternoon in IRC? [17:55] poof [17:56] #action Decide alternating meeting times on channel/mailing list later [17:56] ACTION: Decide alternating meeting times on channel/mailing list later [17:56] #endmeeting === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology [17:56] Meeting ended Sun Nov 6 17:56:27 2011 UTC. [17:56] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-06-17.00.moin.txt [17:56] Thanks everybody! [17:57] Great meeting, talk to you all later! === jason is now known as Guest3984 === Guest3984 is now known as jasef [18:01] Too many S names in this channel! hehe :) [20:15] more a names