[01:06] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Miia Ranta] Ubuntu 11.10 on an ExoPC/Wetab, or how I found some use for my tablet and learnt to hate on-screen keyboards - http://myrtti.fi/blog/2011/11/06/ubuntu-11-10-on-an-exopcwetab-or-how-i-found-some-use-for-my-tablet-and-learnt-to-hate-on-screen-keyboards/
[01:06] <ubuntuuk-planet> [iain woz ere] Goodbye Orlando - http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/blog/posts/2011/11/goodbye-orlando/
[02:06] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] UDS-P Day 5 - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/11/06/uds-p-day-5/
[03:10] <spiritech> hello ubuntu-uk
[03:47] <ball> Daviey: Does everybody need an invitation for #mythbuntu or did I offend someone?
[03:52] <Azelphur> ball: think it's everyone, I can't either
[03:58] <ball> Ah good.  I'd hate to think I'd done something bad without even realising it!
[04:25] <ball> Azelphur: It seems to suddenly be #ubuntu-mythtv
[04:44] <sammm> OMG I'm so bored!!!!!!1
[04:44] <sammm> Does anyone else here like cute ickle bunny wabbits?
[04:50] <ball> hello sammm
[04:50] <sammm> ball: heyyyyy
[04:50] <sammm> ball: Why are you awake so early/late?
[04:51] <ball> sammm: It's 23:51 here.
[04:51] <sammm> ball: WTF?
[04:51] <sammm> ball: This is #ubuntu-uk
[04:52] <sammm> UK being United Kingdom
[04:52] <ball> sammm: I'm British.
[04:52] <sammm> ball: WTF you have to be British to be here now?
[04:52] <ball> I never said that.
[04:53] <sammm> ball: You implied it
[04:53] <ball> sammm: I am not responsible for your interpretation of my comments.
[04:53] <ball> hello darael
[04:53] <sammm> ball: Do you like cute ickle bunny rabbits?
[04:54] <ball> sammm: I haven't eaten rabbit for many, many years.
[04:54] <darael> Hello, ball.  How goes it?
[04:54] <ball> darael: Not too bad thanks.
[04:55] <sammm> ball: Dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? You don't eat cute bunnies.
[04:55] <ball> Correct. I do not currently eat rabbit.
[04:56] <sammm> ball: How would you like it if I ate your dog?
[04:56] <ball> I daresay my daughter would object.
[09:53] <AlanBell> morning all
[10:02] <jacobw> morning AlanBell
[10:07] <AlanBell> Myrtti: have you tried the version of Onboard in -proposed?
[10:10] <Myrtti> AlanBell: yes, with no visible difference
[10:11] <Myrtti> perhaps I don't know what to look for
[10:12] <Myrtti> and all in all I like Gnome-Shell a tiniest bit more than Unity, and I haven't a clue how to change the keyboards
[10:17] <daubers> Morning
[10:18] <jacobw> morning daubers :)
[10:19] <daubers> So, should we run a meeting where we can discuss the UDS stuff that might effect us?
[10:20] <daubers> Or how we as a loco can help with any targets/aims that were brought up at UDS?
[10:30] <daubers> apparently not :)
[10:31] <Myrtti> I'm trying to find a blogpost...
[10:31] <daubers> Which one?
[10:32] <Myrtti> daubers: this one: http://lococouncil.ubuntu.com/2011/11/01/loco-council-oneiric-cycle-review/ which baffled me
[10:32] <Myrtti> I thought Ubuntu UK was already reapproved on Oneiric cycle
[10:32] <Myrtti> right after OggCamp
[10:32] <daubers> Myrtti: Yeah, that blog post is a covering of wha the loco team did as part of the oneiric cycle
[10:32] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:32] <Myrtti> oh, right, misread
[10:33] <daubers> We're now on the "perfect" cycle
[10:33] <Myrtti> it does say Oneiric above the list...
[10:33] <daubers> Yup :)
[10:33] <Myrtti> and even in the title
[10:33] <Myrtti> hohum. a Paracetamol and more tea
[10:33] <Myrtti> headaches in the morning when you wake up would be so much more fun and justified if I had drunk anything stronger than milk yesterday
[10:39] <daubers> Ick
[11:08] <bigcalm> Mornin'
[11:08] <daubers> o/
[11:09]  * daubers tries to find how the bus stops get their data
[11:31] <SuprEngr> daubers, at every stop the driver gets out and finds a phonebox.  driver then morse codes it in binary by tapping on the mouthpiece of the phone and the driver of the previous bus then paints the time on the next stop
[11:32] <SuprEngr> o/
[11:32] <bigcalm> Sounds reasonable to me
[11:33] <daubers> SuprEngr: Rumour has it it's either just a big wifi network or wimax
[11:34] <SuprEngr> ;)
[11:35] <daubers> Meh, I'll leave the packet sniffer running and wait for a bus to go past]
[11:36] <SuprEngr> [one of the drivers of every route has to be called Max for WhyMax to work effectively]
[11:37] <SuprEngr> ..and don't ask why Max? [for recursive,see...]
[11:38] <AlanBell> Myrtti: hmm, it should be visibly quite different, no title bar and transparent backbround
[11:40] <Myrtti> AHHAHAHHAH someone has just made a funneh
[11:41] <Myrtti> mentioned in the blogpost I'm having trouble right-clicking anything, and here they suggest I right-click the border of onBoard
[11:42] <Myrtti> but I suppose they mean I do that after I've installed this hacky thing called twofing
[11:44] <AlanBell> Dunno, I will look into it later
[11:45] <daubers> I hate the smell of electric heaters that have been off for 8 months being turned on again
[11:45] <Myrtti> I hate the smell of my bathroom cleaning products
[11:46] <Myrtti> my toilet refreshener reminds me of the smell of my bathroom the last time I had a hangover
[11:46] <Myrtti> and my bathroom cleaner is just too strong
[11:46] <Myrtti> I don't know why I used the latter with this headache
[11:56] <SuprEngr> Myrtti, dissolved soda crystals? no smell, just cleaning. rubber gloves recommended though.
[11:58] <Myrtti> I think I'll just go buy a 2 liter canister of white vinegar instead and put it in a spray bottle
[11:58] <Myrtti> that's what I usually use in UK
[12:00] <SuprEngr> ...was going to suggest that but that smells [but some,  self included, find it a non-offensive]
[12:00] <Myrtti> SuprEngr: it smells differently, which in my experience doesn't induce a headache for me
[12:01] <SuprEngr> correct - hope head gets better soon
[12:02] <Myrtti> I may end up tossing the toilet refreshener
[12:02] <SuprEngr> [I'm glad I read that twice]
[12:02] <Myrtti> hehe
[12:04] <Myrtti> also, this whole discussion reminds me that it may be a good idea to have my eyes checked by a doctor sometime soon
[12:05] <SuprEngr> wouldn't think eye probs would cause waking up with an ache, *but* eyes are precious, go check
[12:07] <SuprEngr> also ask if waking up with low sugar... hmmm headache?
[12:31]  * penguin42 yawns
[12:38] <GentileBen> So, how do ya'll feel about Unity?
[12:39] <penguin42> ah throwing a good loaded question in?
[12:39] <GentileBen> Are you retarded? Go look up the definition of "loaded question".
[12:40] <penguin42> oh I'm sorry
[12:43] <mattt> :/
[13:14] <jacobw> friends is so unrealistic
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> jacobw: are*
[13:16] <jacobw> ;)
[13:17] <jacobw> enum friends {ross,rachel,chandler,joey};
[13:17] <MartijnVdS> ah those :)
[13:20] <jacobw> i've moved in to a place with sky tv
[13:21] <SuprEngr> what? sharing with someone called Sky... dodgy!
[13:22] <gord> does E4 still show friends on basically a 24 hour loop?
[13:22] <gord> been a long time since i watched uk tv
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> nah it has some "celebrity gossip" between episodes
[13:22] <jacobw> i'm watching comedy central
[13:23] <gord> E4 was the friends channel, then "Bill" or "Jim" or whatever it was, was the top gear channel
[13:23] <jacobw> lol, 'Dave'
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> gord: it's the Top Gear and QI channel, last time I checked
[13:24]  * jacobw thinks all TV channels should have a familial name
[13:25] <SuprEngr> jacobw, the royals already have one... it's called "One"
[13:25] <jacobw> Haha
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> ITV One amirite
[13:26] <jacobw> i was reading about the queen on wikipedia yesterday
[13:27] <jacobw> apparently until 1964 she appointed the leader of the conservative party
[13:28] <SuprEngr> po.s Dave currently showing "Have I Got News..."
[13:28] <SuprEngr> avec Angus Deaton!
[13:51] <KrimZon> does she still appoint the presenter of HIGNFY?
[13:52] <jacobw> i'm not sure :P
[14:07] <jacobw> hi hamitron
[14:07] <hamitron> hi :)
[15:39] <penguin42> spot the odd one out: http://s0.2mdn.net/viewad/2652468/UK-Grocery-StockShop-300x250.png
[15:39] <darael> penguin42: Bakers is the only one not intended for human consumption?
[15:40] <penguin42> nod
[15:40] <darael> I wasn't sure.  I thought there might have been something more subtle, that I'd missed.
[15:41] <pangolin> I bet it's delicious though
[15:41] <pangolin> :)
[15:42] <jacobw> its probably ok for pangolins too :P
[15:43] <penguin42> only imprecise ones though
[15:43] <jacobw> of course
[15:43] <DJones> Although dog biscuits are healthier for you than normal biscuits
[15:43]  * penguin42 hates to know how DJones knows that
[15:44] <darael> Well, dog biscuits have (legally) to be fit for human consumption.  After that it's just a case of happening to know the nutrition information of each.
[15:45] <jacobw> i still won't be having them for breakfast
[15:45] <darael> And the fact that the dog biscuits are intended as a major part of a diet, whereas normal biscuits are essentially treats (however much some may disagree) makes the comparison easy.
[15:45] <DJones> penguin42: I've had dogs all my life, you get to know a lot about dog health & nutrition
[15:45] <darael> jacobw: Sounds advisable.
[15:46] <penguin42> darael: You mean I'm not supposed to base my entire nutrition around chocolate digestives?
[15:46] <darael> penguin42: I couldn't possibly comment.  I might say something in favour of such a plan.
[16:46] <mattt> what's a common python module for interacting with remote machines via ssh?
[16:46] <AlanBell> !info python-libssh2
[16:47] <lubotu3`> python-libssh2 (source: pylibssh2): Python binding for libssh2 library. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.0-1build1 (natty), package size 85 kB, installed size 732 kB
[16:47] <mattt> nice 1, thanks alan
[18:10] <andylockran> http://pastebin.com/kjZySZRk
[18:10] <andylockran> yep - well done Virgin Media :(
[18:13] <andylockran> How's things?
[18:17] <andylockran> hmm
[18:17] <andylockran> very quiet in here
[18:17] <andylockran> else I'm talking to myself?
[18:20] <MartijnVdS> *tumbleweed*
[18:21] <andylockran> was that in response to me?
[18:21] <andylockran> I've restarted my irssi client because I wasn't sure I was still connected..
[18:21] <MartijnVdS> andylockran: well it's VERY quiet
[18:22] <brobostigon> i am playing with android-x86, and am rather impressed on my eeepc, 2.3/gingerbread is working pretty quickly, and resource efficiently.
[18:24] <brobostigon> shame connectbot isnt scaling properly, to the whole screen.
[18:39] <andylockran> brobostigon: that's kewl
[18:39] <andylockran> brobostigon: you blogging the instructions ?
[18:39] <brobostigon> maybe. i am making notes.
[18:40] <andylockran> that'd be useful
[18:40] <andylockran> would like to put it on my eee 1000H
[18:40] <andylockran> is it easy
[18:40] <brobostigon> very, get the image from android-x86 site, dd or unetbootin to sd. and then boot from, simple.
[18:42] <brobostigon> ok, bbl, going to the pub, :)
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: http://imgur.com/a/dT6K3
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> popey: make any salt shaker into a dalek!
[19:21] <SuprEngr> MartijnVdS, but it only takes an upturned bucket & a new born kid sat on top to make a Davros!
[19:28] <popey> Evening all
[19:29] <SuprEngr> o/
[19:29] <AlanBell> evening popey and all
[19:38] <coffeemaker> would people take a tumblr blog seriously?
[19:39] <mgdm> whether or not to take a blog seriously depends on far much more than how it's hosted
[19:40] <coffeemaker> good point
[19:45] <penguin42> do not judge a blog by it's cover
[19:51] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: or its style sheet
[19:55] <coffeemaker> I've seen the term 'blog' used for when someone talks and no one is listening
[19:55] <coffeemaker> or wants to listen
[19:56] <MartijnVdS> isn't that "blag"? :P
[20:08] <AlanBell> Laney: did you write something about your views on Banshee?
[20:11] <Laney> where?
[20:12] <Laney> i ranted a bit on some plus comments
[20:12] <popey> AIUI it's not that Mono on ARM sucks.
[20:13] <popey> It's that Mono on _Linux_ on ARM sucks
[20:14] <ali1234> that's the reasoning?
[20:14] <ali1234> what will replace tomboy?
[20:15] <jacobw> vim + rsync :P
[20:15] <popey> tomboy is still available in the repo
[20:15] <popey> as is banshee
[20:15] <popey> all we're talking about is default apps
[20:15] <ali1234> what will replace it in the install?
[20:15] <popey> nothing
[20:15] <popey> same as gimp
[20:15] <ali1234> so there will be no note taking app by default?
[20:15] <popey> correct
[20:15] <ali1234> presumably something will replace banshee
[20:15] <popey> rhythmbox
[20:16] <ali1234> and gbrainy should never have been included to start with
[20:16] <jacobw> is that still included :s
[20:17] <ali1234> it's not in oneiric
[20:17] <popey> When pitti announced it at the end of UDS there was a cheer when he said they'd gained 30MB by not having Mono by default
[20:17] <ali1234> heh
[20:17] <popey> I don't know if the cheer was 'no mono' or '30MB'
[20:18] <popey> I dont know pitti's position on it
[20:18] <ali1234> i only use banshee because of convenience
[20:18] <ali1234> i don't use tomboy or any other note taking thing
[20:18] <ali1234> i have to say that banshee has been far buggier than rhythmbox ever was
[20:19] <AlanBell> 21:19 < Laney> never mind, I'll be mailing about this anyway
[20:19] <AlanBell> in -uds
[20:19] <ali1234> i reported a reproducable crash bug 6 months ago. still not fixed.
[20:19] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 6 in Launchpad itself ""next 10 entries" at bottom of page" [Medium,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6
[20:19] <AlanBell> I just reported a bug in banshee
[20:19] <AlanBell> bug 886908
[20:19] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 886908 in banshee (Ubuntu) "progress jumps back when scrolling through audio file with mouse wheel" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/886908
[20:19] <ali1234> i think the bug has been known long before i reported it too
[20:20] <ali1234> ah yeah i get that too
[20:20] <ali1234> can't seek in podcasts and stuff
[20:20] <jacobw> i noticed that bug before
[20:20] <AlanBell> I have not had it spin the processor full speed all cores for a bit, probably because I try not to use it
[20:21] <AlanBell> I suspect that is a bug in mono
[20:21] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
[20:21] <AlanBell> whenever a UDS session opened in Banshee by accident it was so frustrating trying to scroll to the end of it
[20:22] <ali1234> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=629541
[20:22] <lubotu3`> Gnome bug 629541 in general "Crashes on changing track with an ObjectDisposedException from HyenaSqliteCommand.Execute" [Normal,New]
[20:22] <jacobw> i've been finding banshee buggy since about version 0.12
[20:22] <bigcalm> I don't think that directhex is happy at the removal of Banshee et al from the default install of 12.04 :(
[20:23] <ali1234> when i was listening to the UDS live streams if it dropped out it would jump to playing the last song i listened to
[20:23] <ali1234> and back wouldn't work
[20:23] <ali1234> very annoying
[20:23] <ali1234> had to use mplayer
[20:23] <ali1234> the filesystem queue seems broken, i have a bunch of songs stuck in it
[20:24] <ali1234> and it doesn't work properly with the library - if you open a song or album from the dash, you can't get to "other songs by this artist" easily enough
[20:24] <directhex> bigcalm: it's not so much that. it's the shambolic way the decision was made
[20:25] <ali1234> directhex: i don't remember you complaining about the shambolic decision to include it :)
[20:26] <bigcalm> Hehe, meow
[20:28] <ali1234> the session about about unity user testing was interesting
[20:28] <ali1234> seems like nearly all the problems i have showed up in the tests
[20:30] <AlanBell> directhex: what was shambolic?
[20:33] <ali1234> banshee wasn't default in 10.04 was it?
[20:34] <ali1234> so LTS users won't even see a change
[20:34] <AlanBell> no, just 11.04
[20:34] <AlanBell> indeed, LTS to LTS does appear to be part of the decision
[20:35] <directhex> AlanBell: two reasons were cited for the dropping of banshee in the UDS logs - the only record that exists, since canonical were far too busy to spend a single minute liaising with upstream regarding their concerns or even to INVITE THE TEAM MEMBER THEY PAID TO BRING TO UDS INTO THE SESSION WHERE THEY WERE TO DISCUSS TOSSING OUT HIS WORK - were "it doesn't work on ARM" which is imaginary (it doesn't work on OMAP4, which is canonical's tar
[20:35] <directhex> get ARM platform, but they have never bothered to help provide access to that platform to any Banshee developers, or fix their supposed bugs), and that it's not a GTK3 app (the GTK3 bug is blocking on a single bug which needs help from someone with GTK3 experience, bug canonical's techs are far too busy masturbating onto a biscuit to cooperate with upstream on that one either)
[20:35] <directhex> sooooooooo shambolic.
[20:37] <AlanBell> there was someone on the banshee team there who didn't turn up to the defaults session ?!?
[20:37] <directhex> banshee devs have already given considerable (free) help to canonical to help banshee integration in ubuntu, and in return they've read about this on fucking boycott novell rather than via canonical's full-time upstream liaison gimps
[20:37] <ali1234> what's up with OMAP4? got some more details?
[20:38] <directhex> AlanBell: Laney was shipped to UDS, but never told that he should attend the session where stuff under his remit would be discussed
[20:39] <AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19442/desktop-p-default-apps/
[20:39] <AlanBell> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-p/2011-11-02-21-00-desktop-p-default-apps.1.ogg 10 minutes in
[20:40] <ali1234> it says he attended?
[20:40] <ali1234> where does that list come from anyway?
[20:40] <AlanBell> Laney edited the pad after the session had ended
[20:41] <AlanBell> and marked himself as attending the session
[20:41] <ali1234> but there can be a list of attendees even before the pad is created
[20:41] <AlanBell> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-default-apps
[20:41] <AlanBell> subscribers to the blueprint
[20:42] <ali1234> regarding that pad, i wouldn't say banshee is unmaintained in ubuntu
[20:42] <ali1234> the bugs very much are being forwarded to b.g.o
[20:42] <ali1234> but then they just die
[20:43] <directhex> the pad was heavily vandalised after the event.
[20:43] <directhex> it's useless as a reference now
[20:44] <AlanBell> directhex: http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-p-desktop-p-default-apps/latest or http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-p-desktop-p-default-apps/rev.1545 as it was at the end of the session
[20:45] <directhex> AlanBell: thanks, i didn't know you could view old revisions with etherpad
[20:45] <Laney> I wasn't aware that subscribing to blueprints was a commitment to attend
[20:45] <AlanBell> it isn't
[20:46] <AlanBell> but that is how the field labled "attendees" is populated in summit
[20:46] <AlanBell> and it is used by the scheduler to shuffle stuff around so they don't clash with other things too much
[20:47] <AlanBell> you can mark yourself as essential and it will try hard not to put it on at the same time as other stuff you are attending
[20:47] <Laney> I didn't feel any massive need to go to that session, since nobody told me that Banshee was under threat.
[20:48] <Laney> there was another one on at the same time that I felt would be more useful
[20:48] <directhex> AlanBell: the diff between those pads is a fascinating snapshot of just how this symbolic victory for the "i can;t program but I HATE THIS PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE RAAAARGH" crowd is being taken
[20:48] <AlanBell> Laney: you can also walk out of a session and go to another if you realise you are more useful somewhere else
[20:48] <AlanBell> didn't mean that to sound critical, was trying to be informative
[20:49] <Laney> do you think it would have been reasonable for someone to let me know what was going to happen?
[20:49] <AlanBell> yes, I do
[20:49] <directhex> the decision was premade. the community veneer was for show
[20:49] <Laney> also the reason I have not mailed is because I have been back for all of 4 hours and had other things to do
[20:50] <ali1234> directhex: well that i agree with
[20:50] <AlanBell> you first commented on the pad at 17:22 ish local time, about 10 minutes after they started talking
[20:50] <directhex> if they spent their money on a pandaboard for upstream rather than shipping laney over, that would have been a rather better use of their money.
[20:51] <directhex> but communities are hard work. if only someone had written a book on the art of community
[20:51] <Laney> I commented when I saw that hyperair's maintenance was being insulted
[20:52] <Laney> gotta go out
[20:52] <Laney> ttyl
[20:52] <directhex> and dnielsen's bug triage
[20:52] <ali1234> how much is a pandaboard anyway?
[20:52] <daubers> Evening
[20:52] <ali1234> i never had a problem reporting bugs on banshee
[20:52] <ali1234> the guide is excellent, was it written by dnielsen?
[20:53] <directhex> $174 plus a power supply which is sold separately
[20:53] <directhex> ali1234: probably
[20:53] <ali1234> i must have reported 4 or 5 in the past 6 months
[20:54] <ali1234> but they all turned out to be dupes of existing and sometimes very old bugs
[20:54] <directhex> i occasionally get pinged about bugs i reported in core ubuntu packages in breezy
[20:55] <ali1234> really? shouldn't they all be closed by now?
[20:55] <ali1234> i get a couple "we are closing this bug because this version is no longer maintained" emails every month
[20:56] <directhex> they probably should be
[20:56] <AlanBell> popey: I think pitti was the one proposing switching back to Rhythmbox
[20:57] <ali1234> bug 857299 (sorry, lazy)
[20:57] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 857299 in banshee (Ubuntu Precise) "banshee window remain white on startup on armel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/857299
[20:57] <AlanBell> listening to the audio it does seem to me that the "default apps" discussion would be best done not at UDS
[20:58] <ali1234> i don't think it should be done in 1 session
[20:58] <AlanBell> it needs a much wider input and more upstream communications
[20:58] <ali1234> maybe 1 session on monday and one session on friday when the dust has settled
[20:59] <AlanBell> at least
[20:59] <directhex> maybe "we're thinking of dropping app X due to problem Y" should be communicated to the authors of app X. maybe. i mean, call me a whiny bitch, but that seems courteous when the authors of app X have already made considerable accommodations for you
[21:00] <AlanBell> there should be a process for getting on and off the CD
[21:00] <AlanBell> directhex: much as I would like to call you a whiny bitch, I think you are right :)
[21:00] <ali1234> +1
[21:01] <AlanBell> also stuff getting on the CD like GBrainy seems random
[21:01] <ali1234> as mentioned, it is gone now
[21:01] <ali1234> i'd like to make something to replace it actually
[21:01] <AlanBell> it is, but how did it get on in the first place?
[21:01] <directhex> the lulzy part is the "let's add sysinfo!" in that log
[21:02] <directhex> sysinfo is an old unmaintained mono app
[21:02] <ali1234> !info sysinfo
[21:02] <directhex> AlanBell: did the Brain Age craze pass you by?
[21:02] <lubotu3`> sysinfo (source: sysinfo): display computer and system information. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.7-4 (natty), package size 105 kB, installed size 388 kB
[21:02] <AlanBell> directhex: my kids play some of those brain things, some friends came round to play it on the WII
[21:03] <ali1234> directhex: gbrainy is nothing like those games, it's more like doing an IQ test. the kind people hate.
[21:03] <AlanBell> they all seemed to know what they were doing and tried to pursuade me to join in
[21:03] <AlanBell> kept telling them I don't play games, don't care, don't want to participate
[21:03] <StevenR> hrrm. so I'm planning on getting a wireless keyboard. However, I wonder how secure they are from folk sniffing passwords from the air. Is there a way I can either secure the wireless keyboard in some fashion, or have a "software" keyboard that works via ssh from another computer? (the pc I want to control wirelessly is my home server/mythbox)
[21:03] <AlanBell> eventually they forced the controller on me and I had a go and got the high score :)
[21:03] <directhex> StevenR: i think bluetooth keyboards should be considered secure
[21:04] <directhex> but not RF
[21:04] <ali1234> StevenR: you can do the keyboard-over-ssh thing with synergy and a ssh tunnel
[21:04] <directhex> i'm guessing a bit though
[21:04] <ali1234> yes, bluetooth keyboards should be secure
[21:04] <StevenR> ali1234: really, what I want is enough to type passwords in. For controlling mythtv, an RF keyboard should be fine
[21:05] <StevenR> directhex: if the pin/key is sufficiently long, yes.
[21:05] <directhex> anyway. i need to re-blog my thoughts on the banshee removal. the wordpress app for webos decided to throw away an hour's typing, so i need to redo mostly from start
[21:05] <directhex> and i'm too sober to do it now
[21:05] <AlanBell> I am a bit surprised there wasn't a whole RB vs Banshee session like there was for the RDP client http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19614/desktop-p-freerdp/
[21:06] <directhex> AlanBell: too much publicity for a premade decision, i expect
[21:08] <ali1234> StevenR: RF keyboards have been demonstrated to be insecure. i doubt anyone would use it to hack into your home server though.
[21:08] <AlanBell> directhex: do you think more publicity would have changed it?
[21:09] <daubers> Is banshee going again?
[21:10] <ali1234> apparently
[21:10] <directhex> AlanBell: no. i think canonical being a free-software community member rather than a pure consumer might have changed it.
[21:10] <daubers> It comes it goes
[21:10] <ali1234> not if you're a LTS user
[21:10] <directhex> and even if it didn't change it, it would have been polite
[21:11] <directhex> ali1234: f-spot is coming back?
[21:12] <ali1234> no idea
[21:12] <ali1234> i never really noticed it going
[21:14] <AlanBell> directhex: personally I expect one or two people came to that session with the pre-made intention of getting a decision to go to Rhythmbox. If there was a general negative reaction then they wouldn't have been able to carry the decision.
[21:15] <AlanBell> I don't think UDS sessions are wide enough to overcome the "one person decides, nobody objects much" system of decision making
[21:15] <directhex> ali1234: f-spot was the photo app in dapper, hardy & lucid. nobody's saying "zomg can't change app in LTS" to being it back in oneiric. that's a really bullshit line of reasoning.
[21:15] <AlanBell> which mostly doesn't matter, for most sessions
[21:15] <directhex> or evo -> thunderbird
[21:16] <AlanBell> I guess if you are going to flip flop it makes sense to arrange LTS to be on a flip to flip cadence
[21:17] <AlanBell> or a flop to flop cadence, that would work too
[21:18]  * AlanBell votes for alternating music players in all releases
[21:18] <directhex> is it possible to comment on this topic without citing greg k-h's "canonical doesn't contribute upstream" slides?
[21:18]  * daubers just tends to use spotify...
[21:19] <AlanBell> directhex: the other reason was it is possibly easier to do interesting things with a music lens without the app running with Rhythmbox
[21:19] <AlanBell> is that true?
[21:20] <directhex> AlanBell: where is that said?
[21:20] <AlanBell> hard to get access to the banshee database without banshee running to present an API
[21:20] <AlanBell> in the audio
[21:20] <AlanBell> rhythmbox is an XML file so a lens can parse it quickly and easily without starting the app
[21:20] <ali1234> how do i access the audio?
[21:20] <directhex> parsing xml is quicker than sqlite?
[21:21] <ali1234> probably
[21:21] <AlanBell> directhex: I have no clue if it was true or not, hence my question
[21:22] <AlanBell> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-p/ <- audio files
[21:22] <AlanBell> http://mirrors.tumbleweed.org.za/uds-p/2011-11-02-21-00-desktop-p-default-apps.1.ogg < start 10 minutes from the beginning
[21:22] <AlanBell> and if you have banshee, don't use the mouse wheel to scroll through it :)
[21:23] <directhex> oh boy i have a big surging erection at needing to apply forensics to audio files to work this out, rather than any kind of cooperation with upstream.
[21:23] <ali1234> they play directly in firefox :)
[21:24] <AlanBell> ali1234: yeah, but then they don't save anywhere sensible, and I couldn't scroll through it
[21:24] <ali1234> yeah you can scroll
[21:24] <ali1234> just grab the little speech bubble thingy
[21:25] <AlanBell> oh yeah, that wasn't working for me earlier!
[21:25] <AlanBell> no mouse wheel scroll
[22:16] <Myrtti> good grief I hate this hardware tweaking stuff
[22:17] <Myrtti> hours of work and things don't *still* work
[22:20] <ali12341> is there any software for bulk flashing usb drives?
[22:24] <bigcalm> ali12341: up arrow on a dd command?
[22:25] <AlanBell> Myrtti: I would like to help you get onboard working nice
[22:25] <ali12341> i need something that works in parallel
[22:25] <Myrtti> I don't really mind onboard being rubbish
[22:25] <AlanBell> I do!
[22:25] <Myrtti> it's the magic of not knowing how to rightclick that vexes me more
[22:26] <Myrtti> I can promptly move to hating onboard with all my might after I've figured rightclicking
[22:26] <AlanBell> hmm, onboard can do that with hover click, but that requires a mouse
[22:26] <AlanBell> oh, no it doesn't
[22:27] <AlanBell> onboard has a right click button
[22:27] <Myrtti> I wonder how much a decent bluetooth keyboard is
[22:30] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/onboardmouse.png
[22:30] <AlanBell> Myrtti: using that layout the second button in the mouse column is to right click, press that then prod the screen where you want to right clic
[22:31] <AlanBell> if you can't see that, prod the arrow next to the drag button to show that column
[22:32] <AlanBell> top button is middle click
[22:33] <AlanBell> interestingly they all have tooltips, but you won't see them on a touchscreen
[22:34] <ali12341> hmm... if i have 100 identical USB flash drives plugged into a computer with loads of hubs, and one of them is bad, how can i identify which one it is?
[22:34] <ali12341> something about the bus topology
[22:35] <AlanBell> do they have activity LEDs?
[22:35] <ali12341> i don't know
[22:35] <ali12341> let's assume they don't
[22:35] <bigcalm> The hubs or the usb flash drives?
[22:35] <ali12341> the usb flash drives
[22:36] <ali12341> let's also assume i have 10 identical 10 port hubs and 10 usb ports on the motherboard
[22:37] <AlanBell> what happens after sdz0 ?
[22:37] <ali12341> sdaa i think
[22:37] <AlanBell> ok, so in software you know that /dev/sdat is giving IO errors of some kind right?
[22:38] <ali12341> yeah
[22:38] <ali12341> how do i trace that to a physical port?
[22:38] <AlanBell> can you plug them in one by one in order?
[22:38] <ali12341> no, i am too lazy
[22:38] <AlanBell> so start with 100 empty ports, first one is sda and so on
[22:38] <AlanBell> ok, so you need to unplug them and report which one is being unplugged as you go
[22:39] <AlanBell> but you won't want to do that either will you :)
[22:39] <ali12341> yeah
[22:39] <ali12341> well how do i know which one was unplugged?
[22:39] <ali12341> this is the actual problem
[22:39] <ali12341> i need to copy 10mb of files to 100 flash drives
[22:40] <ubuntubhoy> ali12341, if it was duff, the system would just ignore it, as it does with a couple of duff SD cards I have
[22:40] <mattt> evening all
[22:40] <ali12341> ubuntubhoy: but that is not helpful, because i don't want to give someone a bad one
[22:40] <ali12341> and i don't want to manually check each one one at a time
[22:41] <ali12341> i want to plug them all in and run a program that flashes them all and reports which ones are bad
[22:41] <AlanBell> there is information in /var/log/syslog
[22:42] <ali12341> usb 1-6.4
[22:42] <ali12341> that seems to be a fixed unique identifier of the port
[22:42] <AlanBell> yeah, just trying to figure out how that relates to bus/device
[22:42] <ali12341> since i don't actually have 10 x 10 port hubs
[22:43] <ali12341> what i actually want is to be able to plug in drives until i run out of ports, then it says "port 1 is done, plug in another" and have it do that while working on a nother one
[22:43] <ali12341> so i can just shuffle drives constantly without having to wait
[22:44] <ali12341> so it needs to be able to say which one is done, and whether it worked or not
[22:44] <ubuntubhoy> but when you plug in a duffer, it wont mount
[22:44] <ubuntubhoy> so you will physically see it
[22:44] <ali12341> i won't see anything
[22:44] <ali12341> i will see that one of them didn't mount
[22:44] <ali12341> but i won't know which one
[22:44] <ali12341> because there is 100
[22:45] <ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671279] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Unhandled sense code
[22:45] <ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671285] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb]  Result: hostbyte=invalid driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE
[22:45] <ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671293] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb]  Sense Key : Medium Error [current]
[22:45] <ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671302] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb]  Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error
[22:45] <ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671311] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 00
[22:45] <ubuntubhoy> Nov  6 22:43:35 Ubuntu-Touch kernel: [29913.671329] end_request: critical target error, dev sdb, sector 0
[22:45] <AlanBell> !flood
[22:45] <lubotu3`> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
[22:45] <ubuntubhoy> thats what I get from one of my duff SD cards
[22:45] <ubuntubhoy> and soz
[22:45] <Myrtti> uhhuhh
[22:45] <ali12341> usb 1-6.3 <- the other port on the same hub
[22:45] <ali12341> so yeah that's part of it
[22:46] <AlanBell> Device numbers don't appear to be useful at all
[22:46] <ali12341> device node names aren't much use
[22:47] <ali12341> i plan to watch for the vendor/product ID
[22:47] <ali12341> then remount it, copy files, sync, remount ro, md5sum files, and print success/fail message
[22:47] <AlanBell> lsusb -t
[22:48] <ali12341> ah that's helpful
[22:49] <AlanBell> those port numbers look useful
[22:49] <ali12341> yes that matches up with the 1-6.3
[22:49] <AlanBell> in fact they look like the 1-6.3
[22:49] <AlanBell> bus one port 6 then port 3 on the hub
[22:50] <ali12341> exactly
[22:50] <ali12341> so i can use that to "label" each port on whatever hub i am using
[22:51] <ali12341> if only usb had an eject command that actually made the cable unplug itself
[22:51] <AlanBell> if only Ubuntu didn't claim it had!
[22:51] <AlanBell> bug 764905
[22:51] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 764905 in Ayatana Design "Drag and drop a USB key into the trash should eject the USB key" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/764905
[22:52] <AlanBell> thats what you want, fire the thing across the room with the eject command
[22:56] <AlanBell> Myrtti: in onboard preferences you can tell onboard to hide to a floating icon, does that work well for you? looks like it should do for a touch screen.
[22:58] <matti> Guys.
[22:58] <matti> Anybody owns a System76 machine?
[22:58] <matti> I do not want to pay IBM / Lenovo this time.
[22:59] <matti> But I want a nice, Linux-friendly system.
[22:59]  * matti is looking at reviews etc.
[23:00] <AlanBell> UK keyboard?
[23:03] <matti> AlanBell: Hm?
[23:03] <matti> AlanBell: Are you asking me? ;]
[23:03] <AlanBell> yes
[23:03] <AlanBell> does it have/do you want a UK keyboard?
[23:03] <matti> Oh.
[23:03] <matti> I am not sure whether it has UK layout.
[23:03] <matti> Hm.
[23:04] <matti> ThinkPad W520 I want is almost the same as Serval Professional I want ;p
[23:04] <matti> LOL
[23:05] <AlanBell> nice laptop, bit heavy
[23:06] <matti> Yeah.
[23:07] <matti> It will be a desktop replacement for me.
[23:07]  * matti has bazillion VMs running things on his old 13" Samsung Q70.
[23:08] <AlanBell> I have quite a few on my core i3 samsung R530
[23:08] <AlanBell> put 8GB of ram in it
[23:09] <matti> I put 2x 2GB recently.
[23:09] <matti> Max it can take is 4 GB.
[23:09] <matti> Its from 2007 ;]
[23:10] <matti> I really like ThinkPad W520.
[23:10] <matti> But is darn expensive beast.
[23:10] <matti> Nearly 2.5k GBP
[23:10] <matti> Too much.
[23:11] <Myrtti> ubuntu one setup :-( Y U SO RUBBISH
[23:11] <matti> Myrtti: I lost data with U1.
[23:11] <matti> Myrtti: Nice thing, but ... requires some work ;]
[23:12] <Myrtti> I lose my sanity with this tablet
[23:12] <matti> :<
[23:12] <ubuntubhoy> Myrtti, what tablet you using ?
[23:13] <Myrtti> exopc/wetab
[23:14] <ubuntubhoy> that has a nearly full Android 3.2 port iirc, have you tried it ?
[23:21] <AlanBell> night all o/
[23:21] <Myrtti> I already own an Android device, having another doesnt necessarily make this one more fun
[23:22] <ubuntubhoy> Myrtti, its more a convenience thing, I also have a Vega, but would love to get 3.2 working right on my Duo
[23:27] <Myrtti> Ill just start writing bugreports until everyone at canonical hate me
[23:27] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[23:28] <Myrtti> it's of course a cunning plan to make them hire me.
[23:28] <Myrtti> anyway, should go to bed so I have energy for tomorrow, for filing those bugreports.