/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/07/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

jbicha...but totem is in main and all of its dependencies and recommends need to be in main too00:01
jbichatotem's not going to be completely in sync with Debian but you can contribute there too00:02
m4n1shjbicha: ah yes. That is a problem00:09
m4n1shI forgot00:09
m4n1shthen we can never get those plugins :(00:10
micahgwe could in theory merge totem from Debian unstable (haven't looked at the diff yet, but the versions match up)00:10
m4n1shmicahg: if one of the dependencies of a totem plugin is in universe00:10
m4n1shthen it means that plugin will never be packaged in ubuntu?00:10
micahgm4n1sh: well, Debian is still on 3.0.x as well00:12
m4n1shbut totem would see a 3.2 this cycle? right?00:12
micahgno00:12
m4n1shthat clutter thing was a 3.4 problem?00:12
micahgoh?  I thought it was 3.2 and that's why we stayed on 3.0 for oneiric00:13
m4n1shnot sure00:13
m4n1shneed to check00:13
m4n1shand what about the universe dependency of plugin?00:13
m4n1shwhen package are built, then are universe repo available?00:14
micahgm4n1sh: not for packages in main00:14
m4n1shso means a plugin I worked on cant get accepted00:15
m4n1shbummer00:15
m4n1shI mean packaging update part00:15
micahgm4n1sh: what's the dependency?00:15
m4n1shlibepc-ui-dev00:15
m4n1shavailable in universe00:15
m4n1shlibepc-ui-1.0-200:16
micahgm4n1sh: do you want the plugin packages with totem or separately?00:17
micahg*packaged00:17
m4n1shwell totem source00:17
m4n1shcreated many binary packages00:17
m4n1shone of them is totem-plugins00:17
micahgis it shipped upstream?00:17
m4n1shyes00:17
m4n1shwith totem source package00:17
micahgstarting with what version?00:17
m4n1shso since source package will be in main00:17
m4n1shit has been always00:17
m4n1shtotem source package contains many plugins as part of codebase00:17
m4n1shso totem-plugins is in main00:18
micahglooks like all the build deps for that library are in main, you could try to MIR if the Desktop team thinks it's useful enough to support00:19
m4n1shI don't think it is that important00:19
m4n1shit should bring some value to the default install00:20
bjsniderm4n1sh, the trouble with 3.2 is that it only works if your system is opengl-capable00:20
m4n1shclutter?00:20
bjsnideryeah00:20
bjsniderit looks like they've overcome that problem, or are on the verge of it00:20
bjsniderwith llvm00:21
jbicham4n1sh: you can file a mir if you like and see what happens, I did that a few times last cycle00:21
m4n1shjbicha: that package isn't that so important00:21
m4n1shI was just trying out new plugins00:21
m4n1shand thought it would be good to have them packaged00:21
m4n1shthere are no shortage of people crying aloud that ubuntu is destroying our community esp GNOME00:22
m4n1shbjsnider: how with llvm?00:22
m4n1shisnt llvm a compiler suite?00:22
bjsniderhttp://lwn.net/Articles/465728/00:23
bjsniderthat should, it seems to me, make all the difference for totem as well00:23
bjsniderm4n1sh, they think linux achieved perfection with gnome 200:23
bjsnidergnome 2 is the alpha and the omega, or something like that00:24
thisfredquick sanity check: is this likely something I did wrong or a hardware failure? Bug #88696100:24
m4n1shI chuckled when I heard there was track at UDS named managing community bickering00:24
ubot2Launchpad bug 886961 in ubuntu "apt-get dist-upgrade hangs while generating grub.cfg" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88696100:24
m4n1shbjsnider: looks like some complex methods00:26
m4n1shhttp://www.mesa3d.org/llvmpipe.html00:26
bjsniderthere are extensions for gnome-shell that bring back everything in gnome 2, so i don't know what all the bellyaching is about00:26
m4n1shThe Gallium llvmpipe driver is a software rasterizer that uses LLVM to do runtime code generation. Shaders, point/line/triangle rasterization and vertex processing are implemented with LLVM IR which is translated to x86 or x86-64 machine code00:27
bjsniderthe menus, the bottom task panel, etc.00:27
m4n1shand then why is GNOME2 being deprecated00:27
m4n1shkind of cried00:27
m4n1sh*cries00:27
m4n1shI don't understand the sense of entitlement00:28
bjsniderespecially since it's a free product00:31
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
desrtany canonical employees?03:43
lifelessI so want to make a sarcastic comment03:49
lifelessthe only thing stopping me is CLMobia03:49
desrthit me =)03:49
lifeless:P03:49
smspillazdesrt: hi04:24
desrtsmspillaz: hey04:24
desrtgot the info i needed already, thanks04:24
smspillazkk04:24
* smspillaz goes back to studying04:24
desrtweird!04:24
desrt;)04:24
infinitylifeless: Wait, you suddenly have a fear of CLMs?  Is this shiny and new?04:35
lifelessinfinity: not really04:36
lifelessinfinity: just the quotes page now reaches what, 500 people?04:36
infinitylifeless: But it's always reached those who could fire you.  Nothing's changed. ;)04:37
lifelessinfinity: TBH the ones that were percolating up are ones I wouldn't ever have used.04:37
lifelessinfinity: consider elmo's demo to Jane of screensavers.04:37
pittiGood morning05:11
huatsmorning08:18
pittihey huats, how are you?08:26
huatsfine pitti ! thanks !08:30
huats what about you ? you had a nice trip back ?08:30
pittihuats: well, as nice as a short night on an economy class seat can be :)08:32
pittiI managed to sleep a bit, yes08:32
pittiand actually waked up at 6 today, so not too bad :)08:33
huats:)08:33
huatsI woke up at 6 too :)08:33
pittiI'm officially on holiday today, so I cranked up my inkscape skills from about 0 to 0.05 :) http://www.piware.de/2011/11/12-04-testing-ftw/08:35
didrocksgood morning09:11
pittibonjour didrocks, ca va?09:21
didrockspitti: guten Morgen! still a little bit asleep, but I'm fine, you?09:21
pittididrocks: woke up at 6 again; didn't sleep too much, but that should be ok09:22
pittiI can take a nap this afternoon if I want, I'm officially on a swap day today ;)09:22
didrocksheh, indeed :)09:22
chrisccoulsongood morning everyone09:23
pittihey chrisccoulson09:24
chrisccoulsonhi pitti, how are you? how was your flight back?09:24
didrockshey chrisccoulson09:25
pittichrisccoulson: pretty quiet, I could sleep a bit09:25
chrisccoulsonhi didrocks, how are you?09:25
pittiand all on time, so that went well09:25
pittichrisccoulson: how was your's?09:25
chrisccoulsonpitti - heh, i tried to sleep a bit on my flight, but failed09:25
didrockschrisccoulson: I'm rather fine, despite a quite not optimal at all return :) yourself?09:25
chrisccoulsonso i ended up falling asleep on sunday afternoon09:25
chrisccoulsondidrocks, oh, what happened with your return?09:26
didrockschrisccoulson: first fight was delayed by 30 minutes, I ran with jibel at JFK to change terminal09:26
didrocksthere were calling us for final call for boarding09:26
chrisccoulsonoh, that sucks :(09:27
didrocksthe security, having a huge crowd, didn't want to listen to us09:27
didrocksso, we arrived when they closed the door09:27
didrocksand the security didn't tell them we were queuing09:27
pittididrocks: did they still let you in?09:27
didrocksthen, we were set in the next flight, in another terminal (just next to our arrival in fact)09:28
pittiah, argh09:28
didrockspitti: no, too late apparently, they didn't want to reopen the door :/09:28
didrocksapparently, they screwed my reschedule as well as I had to spent 30 minutes in Paris to have another flight to Lyon09:28
didrocksand nobody knew where my luggage was09:28
didrocksso I arrived in Lyon with it (but just 2 hours late, which isn't that bad)09:29
didrocksand I got my luggage by taxi yesterday evening09:29
didrocksso not that bad, but still, all that would have been avoided if JFK security was more flexible09:29
didrocks(especially when we are 5 in this case)09:29
glatzormorning pitti, you want to get rid of check_language_support?09:42
pittiglatzor: no, of language-selector09:42
pittiglatzor: and rewrite check_language_support to either be an aptdaemon plugin, or a separate script and call it from aptdaemon09:43
glatzorpitti, I have already worked on this.09:43
pittiooh09:43
glatzorpitti, it's 5 loc :) plus setuptools integration09:44
pittiglatzor: i. e. you integrated check_language_support, or you put the code to evaluate /usr/share/language-selector/data/pkg_depends into 5 LOCs?09:46
glatzorpitti, http://paste.ubuntu.com/730838/09:51
glatzorpitti, but it could make sense to integrate this deeper into aptdaemon for performance reasons09:53
pittiglatzor: yes, the current implementation in c-l-s is rather expensive09:53
pittiit reinitializes apt caches again, etc.09:54
pittiglatzor: but for the time being this is nice, it'll fix bug 396414 when it is run on every install09:54
ubot2Launchpad bug 396414 in synaptic "When KDE or gnome apps get installed, the corresponding language-packs should be pulled automatically" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/39641409:54
glatzorpitti, I am currently failing to move language-selector to setuptools09:54
pittiglatzor: don't bother; as I said, I'd like to throw it away entirely (or leave it for the KDE guys)09:55
pittiglatzor: I'd like to look into an efficient, small, and simple reimplementation of the check_language_support09:55
pittiin python or shell, whatever is more appropriate09:56
pittiand we either call that from aptdaemon, or what might be preferable, integrate the logic into aptdaemon and then make a check_language_support script which just calls thaht method from aptdaemon09:56
glatzorpitti, by the way, do you think we will get dbus server support for python in this cycle?10:02
pittiglatzor: I looked into this another 8 hours or so, but gave up then; it requires major reorg of the pygobject sources :(10:02
pittior a clever fix which I'm not skilled enough to come up with10:02
pittiglatzor: I'll re-discuss it with J5, but I wouldn't bet on it this cycle10:03
pitti(it's still high on the list of things I'd like to see)10:03
mvohey glatzor! nice to see you. s-c trunk should be mostly ready for consumption in debian now10:06
pittihey mvo10:06
mvoglatzor: the only missing bit is that something needs to provide package-{install,upgrade,remove}.png icons, we do it in the humanity icon theme10:07
didrocksgood morning mvo!10:08
mvohey didrocks, good morning!10:08
glatzormvo, thanks!10:09
=== charles is now known as Guest24123
pittirickspencer3: hey Rick, how are you?11:39
rickspencer3hi pitti11:40
rickspencer3I am well, but the jet lag is baaaad this week11:40
rickspencer3I shall log off soon, and spend the day with my wife, I think11:40
rickspencer3pitti,  how are you?11:40
pittirickspencer3: reasonably well, woke up at 611:40
rickspencer3pitti, nice11:40
pittirickspencer3: I'm on a swap day as well, but playing around a little11:40
didrockshey rickspencer3!11:41
rickspencer3pitti, :)11:41
pittirickspencer3: how do you like the 12.04 motto card? http://www.piware.de/2011/11/12-04-testing-ftw/11:41
rickspencer3hi didrocks11:41
* rickspencer3 looks11:41
rickspencer3didrocks, tu as eu une bonne voyage apres NY?11:41
didrocksrickspencer3: on a raté notre avion avec jibel à cause de la sécurité de JFK. Donc on a pris le suivant11:42
didrocksrickspencer3: ils ont ensuite perdu ma valise, mais je l'ai eu par taxi hier soir, donc tout va bien :)11:42
didrocksrickspencer3: et toi?11:42
rickspencer3didrocks, j'ai ne fu pas mon connexion in NY parce que notre avion a ete en retard11:44
rickspencer3enfin, je prix un bon avion en Amsterdam, pas probleme11:44
didrocksrickspencer3: tu avais un autre vol pas trop tard?11:45
rickspencer3j'ai prix KLM11:45
rickspencer3didrocks, oui, Delta a me donne une voyage en KLM11:46
didrocksça va donc :-)11:46
rickspencer3don, j'ai arrive en Amsterdam une huer en retard saulement11:46
* rickspencer3 wipes sweat from brow11:47
rickspencer3pitti, nice!11:47
rickspencer3"Failure is not an Option" ;)11:47
didrocksrickspencer3: nous, on était arrivé dans le terminal 3, puis le vol air france au terminal 1, mais comme on l'a loupé, on a pris un vol delta au… terminal 3 (juste à côté de là où on était arrivé :/). Donc on a eu 2 fois la securité pour rien :)11:48
rickspencer3pitti, nice reference to NASA11:48
* rickspencer3 open google.translate11:48
rickspencer3j/k11:48
pittirickspencer3: I got this card from the space center: http://piware.de/fotos/Apollo%2013%20-%20Failure%20is%20not%20an%20option.jpg11:48
pittirickspencer3: something like "from testing comes quality"11:49
rickspencer3excellent pitti :)11:49
didrockspitti: last year, we bought the Tee Shirt for njpatel just after the "unity by default" annoucement :)11:50
* pitti discovers kvm's --virtfs magic, sweet11:51
pittiso we have that, autopkgtest, and now a package which is in dep-8 (upower), we just need to connect the dots now11:51
pittijibel: bonjour, ca va?11:52
pittijibel: had a safe trip home?11:52
rickspencer3hey guys, I'm going to go into lurk/log off mode11:53
rickspencer3ttyl11:53
* pitti -> diablo II11:53
didrockssee you rickspencer3 and enjoy diablo II pitti :)11:54
* didrocks continues writing tarmac <-> jenkins plugin for unity11:54
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
* Sweetshark let go a muffled moarn about ubuflu and jetlag.12:07
=== dpm is now known as dpm-lunch
jibelHey pitti , mir geht es gut.12:49
jibelpitti, didrock and I missed our connection by 5 minutes in JFK thanks to an overzealous security agent.12:49
jibelI'll remember to avoid connecting flights in JFK with less than a 3 hours layover.12:49
jibelBut that's minor annoyance and reached home finally :)12:50
Sweetsharkjibel: I almost had that in newark on the flight to Orlando -- but without an overzealous security agent. continental just had that connection that tight that I appeared at the gate 30 sec before closing. Any overzeal by the personal would have made me miss it.12:53
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
didrocksjibel: hey!12:58
didrocksjibel: so they lost my luggage, but then, were quite active and I received it by taxi yesterday evening12:58
jibelSalut didrocks12:58
jibeldidrocks, Cool. It's better to wait for your luggage on your way back home than the other way.13:00
didrocksjibel: indeed, I wasn't too worry because of that :)13:00
didrocksjibel: did you catch your train?13:00
jibeldidrocks, yep, I got it.13:03
pittijibel: FYI, I converted the first package to dep-8 today, and tried autopkgtest13:04
pittijibel: it works well enough in "run in current system" mode13:05
pittijibel: now I'm wondering if you already have existing machinery to set up VMs, snapshot them, install packages, run something, and tear them down13:05
pittijibel: or whether it's worth writing a kvm runner for autopkgtest13:05
pittijibel: I tried the chroot runner, but that's not enough as we want to start e. g. dbus for the tests, and it also needs root13:06
pittijibel: so I discovered kvm's --virtfs, and that's a nice way to shovel data into the VM (to control what autopktgtest runs, and copy back the logs)13:06
jibelpitti, thanks, that's upower, right ?13:07
jibelpitti, I'll finish the setup of upgrade testing in the QA Lab today and will try autopkgtest right after.13:08
pittijibel: we can walk through this together13:10
pittijibel: right, upower13:10
pittijibel: if you don't already have similar machinery, I'm actually interested in writing that kvm backend, but before I'd like to get a closer understanding what we need exactly13:11
pittijibel: I'm off for lunch now anyway, but maybe we can mumble about this later13:11
jibelpitti, sure, we use something similar for kernel. I'll see if we can reuse it for packages.13:12
jbichagood morning13:12
jibelpitti, bon appetit13:12
Q-FUNKpretty weird Bug #886833  in Lucid. where would I start to investigate this?13:24
ubot2Launchpad bug 886833 in gdm "gdm-greeter unusable because filled with pixel garbage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88683313:24
mterryHuh, when did apps.ubuntu.com go live?  I missed that.  It's neat13:41
Laneysome time when natty was current, judging by the default :-)13:56
mterryLaney, :)13:57
=== dpm-lunch is now known as dpm
=== eeejay_is_afk is now known as eeejay
jbicharicotz: I think we should remove glib 2.31 from the gnome3 oneiric ppa as I don't think we should bother patching gnome 3.2 stuff for the new glib16:26
jbichaor at least we should do that in precise, not oneiric16:27
ricotzjbicha, agreed, i think seb128 requested it for testing16:47
seb128ricotz, jbicha: you can drop it, we wanted it somewhere for testing but that didn't need to be the same ppa than gnome316:50
jbichaok, done, it's still in the precise part of the gnome3 ppa17:01
didrocksseb128: salut seb128, bien rentré?17:02
seb128didrocks, lut, nickel, et toi?17:09
didrocksseb128: quelques surprises (connexion manquée à jfk à cause de la sécurité et aller-retour entre terminaux) + perte de baggage, mais tout est rentré dans l'ordre le dimanche soir!17:10
seb128oh17:10
seb128so you didn't master jfk connections enough :-(17:11
seb128when did you arrive ?17:11
didrocksI arrived 2 hours late fortunatly, so back home at 12h17:12
didrockswell, we could have mastered the jfk connexion if the security didn't tell jibel and I to wait in line17:13
didrocks(even when it was the final call with our name)17:13
didrocksso we missed it by 2 minutes…17:13
didrocksand were redirectered to a delta flight at the terminal we arrived…17:13
seb128didrocks, ok, no luck there, there is a reason I never connect in the U.S ;-)17:18
chrisccoulsonme too ;)17:18
seb128hey chrisccoulson, how are you? had a good trip back?17:19
chrisccoulsonseb128, it was uneventful. how about you?17:19
seb128chrisccoulson, I was surprised to not see you at the airport btw ;-)17:20
chrisccoulsonheh17:20
seb128chrisccoulson, nothing worth mentioning, the plane didn't have by-seat-screens but I slept most of the flight so that was ok17:20
didrocksseb128: well, back to europe, it should be easier, but not luck this time, yeah. I'll avoid connecting to JFK after those 2 bad surprises though17:21
seb128didrocks, well you got lucky in your unluck, 2 hours delay is ok for a missed flight17:21
didrocksand lost luggage which I got in the evening by taxi17:22
didrocksso yeah, not a lot to complain :)17:22
seb128didrocks, well at least you didn't loose your password like mhr317:25
seb128he put it with his tickets on a tray at the security check and never got it back on the other side17:25
seb128it got stucked somewhere or picked by somebody by mistake or something17:25
=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_is_afk
jbichapassport?17:29
didrocksurgh?17:30
seb128ups17:31
seb128yes, passport17:31
didrocksthat sucks…17:31
seb128lol, I'm used to type password :p17:31
didrocksI'll keep it on me from now on then and don't put it on a tray17:31
seb128didrocks, yeah, he never got it back17:31
seb128that was after security check though and he had his national id so he managed to get in the plane17:31
Q-FUNKouch17:32
didrocksfortunatly, but still, experiencing that at the security check… that's weird17:32
seb128dunno what happened, there was some chaos there, a guy was making the portal thing bip and they made him go several times through, quite some people queued and the trays line kept going on some quite some trays pilled up17:33
seb128well at the end his password and ticket got lost somewhat17:33
seb128no fun17:33
didrocksah, can be only a mistake then17:33
didrocksyeah, no fun :/17:34
Q-FUNKHeathrow?17:34
seb128no, Orlando17:34
Q-FUNKah17:34
Q-FUNKI keep on reading horror stories of people losing their keys, overpriced watch or passport while it's sitting in the tray at Heathrow.17:34
Q-FUNKhow was UDS Disney?17:35
seb128Q-FUNK, quite good17:38
seb128well I can see watches being stolen but not sure what happened to the passport17:39
didrocksif the plane tickets have been taken as well, seems to be more an error17:39
=== eeejay_is_afk is now known as eeejay
seb128yeah17:40
seb128or the trays stacking pushed it somewhere in the tray line or something17:40
didrocksyeah, possible17:40
Q-FUNKthey shouldn't allow trays to stack up or people to lose sight of their own tray.17:42
Q-FUNKgetting back to dev issues, any idea what could cause Bug #886833  in Lucid? where would I start to investigate this?17:43
ubot2Launchpad bug 886833 in gdm "gdm-greeter unusable because filled with pixel garbage" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88683317:43
Q-FUNKit doesn't affect gnome sessions if I logon via LDM with a thin client, so I'm puzzled as to what would cause it.17:46
seb128not really, lucid don't change a lot nowadays ... could you check what packages get updates for you?17:46
Q-FUNKwhat fetches them, you mean?17:46
Q-FUNKunattended-updates, IIRC17:47
seb128get updated17:47
seb128did that happen after an upgrade?17:47
Q-FUNKyup.  it worked fine until this summer.17:47
Q-FUNKthat's about the last time I logged onto that host locally via GDM17:47
Q-FUNKI normally logon by remote via LDM with a thin client for desktop sessions and let unattended-upgrades fetch and install from -updates and -security.17:51
Q-FUNKI have tried purging gdm and reinstalling, but that doesn't solve it.17:52
Q-FUNKsince it's my LTSP server, this one only gets updated from LTS to LTS+1.17:53
seb128ok, not sure, that seems like an xorg or gtk issue...18:00
seb128hum18:00
seb128great, the banshee guys troll over blog posts about the UDS discussion and users spammed the etherpad18:00
didrocksok, on this positive note, I think it's time for me to take some rest to be 100% effective tomorrow :)18:02
didrockssee you guys!18:02
Q-FUNKthat host uses nouveau, as its X driver18:03
seb128Laney, hey18:06
seb128Laney, so about banshee, seems online discussions are parts based on non-fact but on after session etherpad spamming18:07
seb128Laney, the session format is probably suboptimal but we didn't have a strict agenda, we mainly discussed what was brought up during the session18:08
seb128i.e I had no clue we would discuss the music player there18:08
davidcalleseb128, I think a lot of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that the notes said at some point "Banshee is not well maintained". The truth being "we have no one maintaining Banshee on the Canonical side", it's unfortunate that it worded noted the way it was said during the session :/18:14
davidcallethat is wasn't worded*18:14
popeyseb128: fyi if you want to slide backwards in time to get a copy of the pad before vandalism.. http://pad.ubuntu.com/ep/pad/view/uds-p-desktop-p-default-apps/latest18:14
seb128popey, thanks18:14
seb128davidcalle, the wording is maybe inappropriate but consensus around people there is that the oneiric version is quite buggy18:15
davidcalleseb128, I agree, I was in the session.18:15
seb128that was not the main driver behind the change though18:15
popeyseb128: version 1939 seems to be around the end of the discussion18:16
seb128popey, it's probably before that, or the etherpad got spammed during the session18:17
seb128like all the "port to vala" comments have nothing to do with what we discussed there18:17
seb128the 10) % thing is weird, dunno where that's coming from18:18
popeyah yes, nearer 153818:18
seb128yeah, that's closer I think18:19
seb128a bit before that maybe18:19
seb128dobey, hey18:19
seb128dobey, did you try to alt-right-click to get the "add to panel"?18:19
Q-FUNKseb128: confirmed. it's a nouveau issue. purposely purging -nouveau and letting X use -nv fixed it.18:27
seb128ok, great18:27
Q-FUNKturns out that nouveau tries to find its DRI files somewhere unexpected, as reported by X log18:35
micahgjbicha or ricotz could you join #ubuntu-meeting to discuss the desktop-extra packageset?19:15
micahgor anyone who can help us define vanilla GNOME :)19:16
Laneyseb128: I think there are some lessons that could be learned and it would be nice for something positive to come out of this19:54
seb128Laney, indeed19:54
seb128Laney, note that the decision is not totally made yet which is why there was no communication about it19:55
seb128jasoncwarner_ needs at least to check with u1 and stakeholders if there would be any issue changing19:55
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
=== allison_ is now known as wendar
jbichaseb128: pitti did announce at the final plenary that banshee & mono were being removed from the CD20:29
seb128jbicha, that's what we are aiming for right20:29
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
TheMusoseb128: Good evening. Suffering from jetlag?21:00
seb128hey TheMuso, jetlag is ok, I managed to stay up until a reasonable time and had a good night yesterday21:01
seb128what about you? had a good flight back?21:01
=== eeejay is now known as eeejay_is_afk
TheMusoYes, flight was uneventful thanks. Didn't feel like doing much yesterday when I got back, but went to bed early, and got up about half an hour ago, and am feeling much better, thanks.21:03
kirklandis there a way to configure the unity launcher thing to only pop up when the mouse goes to the top left corner?21:22
kirklandah, found it21:26
maxbkirkland: really, where?21:33
kirklandmaxb: ccsm, search unity, top option21:35
=== davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle
=== eeejay_is_afk is now known as eeejay
GremuchnikHi.  Does anybody here have regrets about Ubuntu choosing Unity and the subsequent deluge of defections from Ubuntu to Mint, Xubuntu, Debian and other distros?22:12
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away
JanCGremuchnik: there is no "deluge of defections"22:26
jbichaGremuchnik: that's quite off-topic but we don't have reliable numbers for how many users there are22:27
GremuchnikDunno if you guys noticed already, but Linux Mint passed Ubuntu on Distrowatch in the last 7 days, 30 days, 3 months and even 6 months.  That does not even include figures for Xubuntu and others.22:27
JanCthe only thing to regret is that a significant number of power users have switched, and we lose people who can help lesser experienced users that way22:27
jbichadistrowatch doesn't mean much22:27
Gremuchnikif its off topic, sorry.22:27
JanCdistrowatch visitors are probably 1% of all Ubuntu users  ;)22:28
JanCor less22:28
bjsnidermint is an ubuntu variant22:28
Gremuchnikbjsnider, yes, but one which has specifically rejected Unity and which will heavily modify G322:29
jbichathere's a lot more to Ubuntu than just Unity22:29
Gremuchnikhttp://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=185122:29
Gremuchnikjbicha, yes, but the "a lot more" now will have to go through Unity22:29
bjsniderdistrowatch is probably being influenced by a bot22:30
bjsniderawhile back pclinuxos was the #1 distro for a period of time obviously because of a bot22:30
JanCbjsnider: it doesn't have t obe22:30
bjsnider6 people actually use it22:31
JanCthey count page visits22:31
bjsniderright, so somebody builds a bot that looks at pages22:31
JanCand I know for sure more than 6 people in Belgium alone used pclinuxos but now moved to mint  ;)22:31
JanCin any case, they count only a small subset of linux users22:32
jbichahttp://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=faq22:32
JanC99% of linux desktop user don't visit that site, or at least very, very infrequently22:33
Gremuchnikwell, I am sure that most GNU/Linux users do not visit DW, but I do think that its a not unrepresentative sample of a trend.  If you guys are all convinced that the imposition of Unity on the community did not create a negative backlash then I sure won't convince you otherwise.  Well, thanks for not being angry at me for raising the topic.  Cheers!22:35
bjsniderJanC, i'm just kidding. i used texstar's mandrake packages back in the day. i might have used pclos if not for ubuntu22:35
brycehGremuchnik, well, if you're right that users are switching at a high rate, then at least people can stop complaining that Canonical doesn't contribute anything to the larger ecosystem.  ;-)22:36
Gremuchnikbryceh, I am just personally sad to see what I consider the flagship of all GNU/Linux distros (Ubuntu) shooting itself in the leg after making the best desktop I had ever seen (pre-Unity GNOME).  I am grateful to all that Ubuntu has done in the past and I am saddened by this.22:38
JanCGremuchnik: like I said, I am a bit concerned about the profile of the users that are moving away, but not about the number22:39
Gremuchnikgood night guys, and kind regards to you all22:40
brycehJanC, I agree; it's not really the size of your userbase that matters, it's how healthy the flow of ideas and other participation there is22:42
brycehlinuxmint and xubuntu and so on are all still ubuntu under the hood, so there's still plenty of room for participation and ideas to flow.22:43
charlie-tca+122:44
JanCbryceh: size is important too, at least to attract commercial support (including hardware support etc.)22:44
JanCso you need both: lots of users who form a customer base for third parties & Canonical *and* a large enough number of experienced users who can advance/support ubuntu22:47
JanCand both groups need each other ☺22:48

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!