[00:00] <scott-upstairs> i want to email most of the people that i met and basically tell them that i enjoyed meeting them :)
[00:07] <astraljava> That's good. I wish I could do that.
[00:19] <scott-upstairs> astraljava, have you ever been to a uds?
[00:19] <scott-upstairs> i don't know that i can fully describe the effect it had on me
[00:19] <scott-upstairs> this reminds me when i first really got into computer and hacking on things
[00:19] <astraljava> Nope.
[00:20] <scott-upstairs> the energy is palpable and infectious
[00:20] <scott-upstairs> all i want to do is work on ubuntu stuff now...seriously :)
[00:20] <scott-upstairs> i still need to write a final blog post about uds
[00:20] <scott-upstairs> i was overwhelmed by the first three days
[00:20] <knome> scott-upstairs, uds has a powerful effect on you... but don't let it fool you. not all the people are really that excited about it as you are.
[00:20] <scott-upstairs> the last two were more about understand how effective i can be with what i learned
[00:20] <knome> scott-upstairs, everybody always say "yeah let's do x, y and z" in uds, but that rarely happens
[00:21] <knome> sorry to be so negative
[00:21] <scott-upstairs> knome, oh, i know
[00:21] <knome> but that's what i learned from uds :P
[00:21] <scott-upstairs> and i am trying to be very careful about the goals i set, especially for the team
[00:21] <scott-upstairs> we have tried to do too much every cycle
[00:21] <scott-upstairs> i have considered our goals very serious for several weeks now
[00:21] <knome> yeah
[00:22] <scott-upstairs> and even pointed it out to many people on the team to evaluate what we are going to do
[00:22] <scott-upstairs> my concern is that everyone said, "yes, we can do this"
[00:22] <scott-upstairs> but i worry that everyone will not be doing it
[00:22] <knome> that's the problem
[00:22] <scott-upstairs> aye
[00:23] <scott-upstairs> but i still think it is possible even if i become extremely involved with almost everything
[00:23] <knome> just remember not to micromanage
[00:23] <scott-upstairs> i will continue to delegate work at most opportunities
[00:23] <knome> let people work on the details and the bigger things too
[00:23] <knome> and just approve general lines
[00:23] <scott-upstairs> but i have a feeling that i will be 'plan B'
[00:23] <knome> ;)
[00:24] <scott-upstairs> okay, dinner time, back in a bit
[00:35] <knome> will be back tomorrow
[01:18] <scott-upstairs> i'm back
[02:24] <len> hello. First time on IRC... anyway I have been following the logs a bit and had some thoughts on the reybird or other themes.
[02:26] <len> I use focus follows mouse though that may make not much difference. But I find greybird has the window decoration so close between focus and not it is hard to find which text box I am using. I sort of enjoyed the phasex theme (dark) as the focused window is bright green and easy to see.
[02:27] <len> But... text box colours had for/background the same colour and unreadable.
[02:29] <len> I ended up using the window manager theme "Biz" for really clear textbox use and xcfe-stellar for the appearance theme. For a neutral theme but clearly marked focused window for better work flow.
[02:30] <len> Just put mail in the mailing list sorry to repeat.
[02:41] <ScottL> hi len, reading what you wrote
[02:42] <ScottL> oh, don't apologize!  we appreciate the feedback
[02:42] <ScottL> i will look at the "biz" theme later
[06:10] <jasonmchristos> I think the switch to xfce wasnt the best idea
[06:10] <jasonmchristos> A studio machine shouldnt really be a netbook it should be able to run the full featured desktop
[06:11] <holstein> jasonmchristos: have you checked out unity?
[06:11] <jasonmchristos> especially since xfce doesnt come with disk utility
[06:11] <jasonmchristos> disk utility is necisarry to format drives for recording
[06:11] <jasonmchristos> and gparted isnt the most versatile
[06:11] <holstein> jasonmchristos: our xfce can come with the disk utility
[06:11] <jasonmchristos> well put it on there
[06:12] <holstein> i prefer gparted though, and hadnt noticed yet
[06:12] <holstein> jasonmchristos: you want to suggest that via the email list?
[06:12] <jasonmchristos> well the benchmarking is important
[06:12] <holstein> eh
[06:12] <jasonmchristos> gparted doesnt tdo benchmarking also
[06:12] <holstein> there are other tools though
[06:12] <jasonmchristos> you need to know disk throughput for live recording
[06:12] <jasonmchristos> very important
[06:12] <holstein> sure
[06:12] <holstein> but, lets say you run a test
[06:12] <holstein> and the disk is not 'happening'
[06:13] <jasonmchristos> but disk utility does both in one
[06:13] <holstein> what are you going to do?
[06:13] <holstein> you cant do anything about it
[06:13] <holstein> you format ext and 'get what you get'
[06:13] <holstein> not that im against that tool
[06:13] <jasonmchristos> you change drives
[06:13] <holstein> its in the repos though
[06:13] <holstein> you just install it
[06:13] <jasonmchristos> doesnt matter
[06:13] <holstein> we have access to the same packages
[06:13] <holstein> jasonmchristos: ?
[06:13] <holstein> how so?
[06:13] <jasonmchristos> lower the recording bps
[06:13] <holstein> its installable for you
[06:13] <holstein> the package
[06:13] <jasonmchristos> ok
[06:14] <holstein> you feel like its manditory?
[06:14] <holstein> i like it on the live CD's for sure
[06:14] <jasonmchristos> should come by default
[06:14] <holstein> jasonmchristos: i see it in my xubuntu install here
[06:14] <holstein> jasonmchristos: what are you referencing?
[06:14] <jasonmchristos> how else does someone calculate the proper recording bps to be handled by the disk throughput
[06:15] <holstein> just that XFCE probably doesnt have it?
[06:15] <holstein> because i think xubuntu has it
[06:15] <holstein> and we'll likely just have it
[06:15] <jasonmchristos> disk utility palimpset with the bnchmarking feature
[06:15] <holstein> jasonmchristos: i just format properly personally
[06:15] <holstein> and dont track to the same disk my OS is on
[06:15] <jasonmchristos> doesnt matter 
[06:15] <jasonmchristos> you need to know throughput exactly
[06:15] <holstein> but, 'disk utility' is in xubuntu
[06:16] <holstein> jasonmchristos: ?
[06:16] <holstein> right
[06:16] <holstein> but what do you do about it?
[06:16] <holstein> it is what it is
[06:16] <holstein> you can change it
[06:16] <holstein> cant*
[06:16] <jasonmchristos> to calculate what quality that you can record at
[06:16] <holstein> so who cares
[06:16] <jasonmchristos> also adding the sync mount option
[06:16] <holstein> jasonmchristos: listen
[06:17] <jasonmchristos> holstein: you decide what bit depth to record to it by what it will take
[06:17] <holstein> im not arguing it shouldnt be ther
[06:17] <holstein> e
[06:17] <jasonmchristos> and you may be able to change it
[06:17] <jasonmchristos> you might notice the DMA settings are off
[06:17] <holstein> jasonmchristos: yeah, im just not sure i agree
[06:17] <holstein> i dont juggle my quality settings aroung like that
[06:17] <jasonmchristos> but even if you cant you then change the size of the bitstream you re writing
[06:17] <holstein> i just do a clean multiple of 44.1
[06:17] <holstein> and call it a day
[06:18] <holstein> but again
[06:18] <holstein> im not arguing it shouldnt be there
[06:18] <holstein> jasonmchristos: what makes you think its not there?
[06:18] <holstein> it might be..
[06:18] <jasonmchristos> i installed 11.10
[06:18] <jasonmchristos> and it had gparted
[06:18] <holstein> ok
[06:18] <jasonmchristos> no disk utility
[06:18] <holstein> and you want the disk utility
[06:18] <jasonmchristos> nothing to benchmark with
[06:18] <holstein> jasonmchristos: in the mean time, you can install it
[06:18] <holstein> jasonmchristos: yeah
[06:19] <holstein> i get it
[06:19] <holstein> jasonmchristos: you want to send an email to the dev list?
[06:19] <jasonmchristos> you cant get the live recording done proper unless you calculate disk throughput
[06:19] <holstein> jasonmchristos: right
[06:19] <jasonmchristos> you need to be writing sync
[06:19] <holstein> yup
[06:19] <jasonmchristos> otherwise you run out of buffer
[06:19] <holstein> i understand
[06:19] <holstein> i just have *never* had that problem
[06:19] <jasonmchristos> well what do you do?
[06:20] <holstein> i test 24/96 with 8 channels
[06:20] <holstein> and it works
[06:20] <holstein> no xruns
[06:20] <holstein> and i just move on
[06:20] <holstein> but, its in the repos for 11.10
[06:20] <jasonmchristos> that has nothing to do with xruns
[06:20] <holstein> and it can be added
[06:20] <holstein> jasonmchristos: it can be added man
[06:20] <jasonmchristos> im talking about writing to the HD
[06:20] <holstein> its not a big deal
[06:20] <holstein> jasonmchristos: i am too ;)
[06:21] <holstein> i can write 8 tracks of 24/96
[06:21] <holstein> no issues
[06:21] <jasonmchristos> no xruns has to do with bitstreams of the in/outs 
[06:21] <holstein> but i dont do that
[06:21] <jasonmchristos> once its outed it needs to be written
[06:21] <holstein> right
[06:21] <jasonmchristos> to HD
[06:21] <jasonmchristos> or outed to a magnetic tape
[06:21] <holstein> and its *never* been a problem for me
[06:21] <holstein> but, i like the disk utility
[06:21] <holstein> i like the testing features on the live CD's
[06:22] <jasonmchristos> ok
[06:22] <jasonmchristos> why do you guys want input
[06:22] <holstein> that has nothing to do with XFCE though right?
[06:22] <jasonmchristos> if you never listen
[06:22] <holstein> jasonmchristos: ?
[06:22] <holstein> im listening
[06:22] <holstein> and agreeing actually
[06:22] <jasonmchristos> im telling you put disk utility on by default
[06:22] <holstein> im not a dev either
[06:22] <holstein> jasonmchristos: right
[06:22] <holstein> we cant go back and put it in 11.10
[06:22] <holstein> thats over
[06:22] <holstein> it'll have to be proposed for 12.04
[06:23] <holstein> unless it was just a glitch that its not in 11.10
[06:23] <jasonmchristos> ok
[06:23] <holstein> jasonmchristos: +
[06:23] <jasonmchristos> im just trying to help
[06:23] <holstein> sending an email to the dev lise is the way to go
[06:23] <jasonmchristos> i reverted to 10.10
[06:23] <holstein> 10.04 is the LTS
[06:23] <holstein> FYI
[06:23] <holstein> thats what im running on my production rig
[06:24] <jasonmchristos> yeah i shouldve done 10.04 because it has the RT kernel
[06:24] <holstein> anyways, is that all about XFCE?
[06:24] <holstein> the move to XFCE was not done in haste
[06:24] <holstein> we feel its the most like what we had
[06:24] <holstein> the most 'desktop' feeling
[06:25] <holstein> and the most like gnome2
[06:25] <jasonmchristos> i thought 10.10 would also i liked 10.10 better because it comes stock with mc cloning in the network settings
[06:25] <jasonmchristos> so the move to xfce was done because of gnome 3
[06:26] <holstein> we had to do something
[06:26] <holstein> change was forced on us all
[06:26] <holstein> and thats fine
[06:26] <jasonmchristos> i see
[06:26] <jasonmchristos> good point
[06:26] <holstein> ive been living in XFCE for a week now
[06:26] <holstein> i like it
[06:27] <holstein> its not my studio box, but i feel like it'll be nice there too
[06:27] <jasonmchristos> you didnt think kde wouldve been better ?
[06:27] <holstein> *i* didnt
[06:27] <holstein> KDE is too heavy feeling in my opinion
[06:27] <holstein> but, its nothing like gnome2 for sure
[06:27] <holstein> and the apps are quite different
[06:27] <jasonmchristos> xfce is just so stripped and something doing live audio production should handle a bulkier desktop system
[06:28] <holstein> or you could argue that system resources should be given to the system, not the desktop
[06:28] <jasonmchristos> seems like with the RT options it doesnt hurt ecause any daemons are locked out for the RT processes
[06:29] <holstein> we'll just need to do some testing for that
[06:29] <jasonmchristos> so it shouldnt hurt to have a bulkier desktop with benchmarking capabilities
[06:29] <holstein> sure
[06:29] <holstein> but, again, you can install kubuntu, and add the studio stuff
[06:29] <holstein> or studio, and install KDE
[06:29] <holstein> its not set in stone
[06:29] <holstein> its just the most like gnome2
[06:29] <holstein> the base
[06:30] <jasonmchristos> i agree it was likely a better option than that gnome 3 netbook looking desktop
[06:30] <holstein> the end user always has the option
[06:30] <holstein> LXDE is nice, and was on the list as well
[06:30] <holstein> but we felt that was *so* light
[06:31] <jasonmchristos> i think gnome2 shoyld be forked myself
[06:31] <holstein> eh, its over
[06:31] <holstein> it will be, but its over
[06:31] <jasonmchristos> dead?
[06:31] <holstein> yeah
[06:31] <jasonmchristos> someone killed the gnome?
[06:32] <holstein> gnome2
[06:32] <holstein> gnome is there, and in the repos too
[06:32] <jasonmchristos> hmm
[06:32] <holstein> gnome shell or whatever it is
[06:33] <holstein> but, XFCE is well maintained and not bare-bones minimal
[06:33] <holstein> with a nice light set of core apps
[06:35] <jasonmchristos> ok
[11:51] <ScottL> wow,holstein, you handled that better than  i think i would/could have :)
[11:51] <ScottL> i was getting frustrated just reading that conversation ;)
[12:10] <astraljava> Mike's the man.
[12:10] <astraljava> We need to hold on to him as best we can, we can't afford to lose him.
[15:20] <holstein> astraljava, ScottL, hehe
[15:20] <holstein> i thought i had lost a bit of patients and crossed a line maybe
[15:20] <holstein> im glad it doesnt seem that way
[15:21] <holstein> some folks just want to have a problem though
[15:21] <holstein> i can relate with the frustration though
[15:23] <holstein> finding where/who to complain to can be challenging
[15:24] <holstein> and taking the extra step of *not* complaining and actually helping fix things is ideal i suppose
[18:01] <astraljava> holstein: I didn't know you were a doctor, and apparently not a very good one at that.
[18:07] <scott-work> wuh?  i missed this one
[18:07] <astraljava> < holstein> i thought i had lost a bit of patients and crossed a line maybe
[18:12] <scott-work> oh! i think i know where this is from then, he did better than i would have
[18:14] <astraljava> You're missing the point.
[18:17] <scott-work> sorry, i'm a bit distracted being back at work because i really don't want to be back at work and i just want to work on ubuntu or ubuntu studio.....badly
[18:18] <astraljava> I understand that. And it's different for you native speakers, cause you see how it's pronounced and get it with the context.
[18:18] <scott-work> but i think i understand our point..."patients" as in a doctor and lossing it as in a patient dieing
[18:19] <scott-work> your, not our
[18:19] <scott-work> just a moment, i'm going to relog as i realize i'm messing a few channels
[18:19] <astraljava> Ok.
[18:20] <scott-work> okay, back, i now have a few more channels like i expected
[18:20] <scott-work> firefox with pinned tabs behaves slightly wonky sometimes
[18:21] <scott-work> oh, one more missing, brb
[18:22] <scott-work> argghh!
[18:23] <scott-work> okay, i think that is it
[18:26] <scott-work> astraljava: i forget where you are from and i don't want to insult you by guessing ;)  can you tell me again?
[18:27] <scott-work> oh, and i'm going to make a prediction (although i hope it isn't true)....
[18:27] <scott-work> the lowlatency kernel will not be accomplished until quite late in this cycle
[18:27] <astraljava> Finland.
[18:27] <astraljava> How late?
[18:28] <scott-work> i'm still amazed at how so much of the rest of the world can speak multiple languages compared to the us, astraljava , it's bloody impressive
[18:28] <scott-work> oh, i'm just guessing about the kernel, i don't actually know anything about it, just a gut feeling
[18:29] <scott-work> but i think the kernel guys will get wrapped up in their own stuff but i'm going to try to keep up with one of the guys who is most involved and poke him from time to time ;)
[18:29] <astraljava> Well, you have the advantage of being natives for one of the most universal languages. The rest of us have to struggle.
[18:29] <astraljava> Sounds like a plan.
[18:29] <scott-work> astraljava: most everyone i interface with (including yourself) do a wonderful job!  i am very serious about that
[18:30] <scott-work> i find most actually write it better than many of those that are native speakers
[18:30] <scott-work> quite frankly, it's a bit humbling
[18:30] <astraljava> Thanks. We also learn it differently. We often lack in pronunciation, but might even do better in spelling.
[18:31] <astraljava> That's only because we're taught differently.
[18:32] <astraljava> We don't hear it all the time, so we need to learn how words are spelt, and after that we learn how they're pronounced.
[18:32] <astraljava> And we need to think about everything more, so we're more careful.
[19:02] <scott-work> astraljava: i feel that most americans do not spell very well and that our written language is being corrupted by people who don't value speaking or writting properly
[19:02] <scott-work> irc and text messaging doesn't help on that front either
[19:03] <astraljava> True. And tweeting makes it all the more worse.
[19:03] <scott-work> i don't say banish the tools, i wish we could just appreciate writing and speaking more
[19:03] <scott-work> i don't mind slang, but it should be balanced with the ability to use the proper words as well
[19:05] <scott-work> but i'm funny like that and other areas as well
[19:05] <scott-work> books, for example.  i really don't like writing in a book or folding a corner over as a bookmark
[19:05] <astraljava> Well, whatever it's worth, I'm with you there.
[21:28] <scott-work> look at this - ubuntu studio on g+: https://plus.google.com/102125777892703446963
[21:29] <astraljava> Nice.