[10:34] <Pjotr> Hello all
[10:34] <knome> hello
[10:34] <Pjotr> micahg: has the Ubuntu Security Team reached a decision about this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sun-java6/+bug/884252
[12:47] <astraljava> Anyone using the weather applet? For a few days, it's not showing any data anymore.
[12:47] <ochosi> astraljava: read the xfce-ml :)
[12:47] <astraljava> Hmm... I don't think I'm subscribing that. Thanks!
[12:48] <ochosi> np
[12:48] <ochosi> but there's a lengthy ongoing discussion there that i don't want to duplicate in irc ;)
[12:56] <astraljava> I read it. Interesting. It's been known for almost a month now, and no fix?
[13:02] <mr_pouit> (because many plugins are unmaintained)
[13:08] <astraljava> Right, okay. I'll see if I have time to look into it.
[16:20] <charlie-tca> Good morning from Las Vegas
[16:21]  * micahg waves to charlie-tca
[16:22] <micahg> charlie-tca: meeting at 22:00 UTC today
[16:22] <GridCube> :D good morning charlie-tca :)
[16:22] <charlie-tca> Thank you, micahg 
[16:22] <charlie-tca> That was the question I was going to ask, too.
[16:23] <GridCube> im using a stylus to write :D
[16:23] <charlie-tca> I am down here in Las Vegas for another two weeks, so will be erratically on and off IRC
[16:23] <charlie-tca> GridCube: great!
[16:23] <charlie-tca> How's it working?
[16:23] <GridCube> pretty well and fast
[16:24] <charlie-tca> big changes coming for testing...
[16:24] <charlie-tca> They are re-writing the QA ISO tracker to include daily testing, and will also include hardware, to be sent to Ubuntu Friendly
[16:24] <GridCube> but if i rotate the  screen all touchScreen gets broken
[16:25] <charlie-tca> a bit unstable then?
[16:25] <GridCube> what changes?
[16:25] <charlie-tca> all broken images must be fixed within 3 hours if possible
[16:25] <charlie-tca> use ISO tracker for daily testing
[16:25] <GridCube> its unstable if i rotate
[16:26] <GridCube> :o the testings have Started?
[16:26] <charlie-tca> can't start yet, since the images are broken
[16:27] <charlie-tca> but, yes, they built the images already for Precise
[16:27] <GridCube> :P yeah well
[16:27] <charlie-tca> They should shake things out this week, with real testing starting next week
[16:28] <charlie-tca> QA tracker should be ready by December 1
[16:28] <GridCube> charlie-tca, me and madnick have been working on a new totally v
[16:28] <GridCube> revamped daily iso testings site
[16:28] <GridCube> have you seen the mails?
[16:29] <charlie-tca> Yeah, but we will be tracking them on the qa site this cycle, they want all tests in one place now
[16:29] <GridCube> :(
[16:29] <GridCube> oh
[16:29] <charlie-tca> exactly
[16:29] <charlie-tca> :(
[16:29] <GridCube> all the hard work
[16:29] <GridCube> :) well i learned stuff
[16:29] <charlie-tca> They took what we had, and what QA had, and combined them
[16:30] <GridCube> :)
[16:35] <holstein> any arandr users?
[16:36] <holstein> GridCube: you suggested it, and it seems to be doing the spanning well, or whatever you want to call it
[16:36] <holstein> *not* mirroring
[16:36] <holstein> the question is, can it do mirroring? and im just not seeing the setting?
[16:37] <GridCube> i do have mirroring :P
[16:37] <GridCube> try grandr
[16:38] <holstein> GridCube: thanks :)
[16:38] <holstein> im looking for the one pacakge to include in ubuntustudio that would do both
[16:39] <GridCube> im using it to invert the screen on this netbook, but doing inversions messes whit the pointers
[16:44] <holstein> GridCube: hmmm, grandr doesnt seem to be doing anything
[16:44] <holstein> any ideas?
[16:44] <holstein> MN
[16:44] <holstein> nm*
[16:44] <holstein> GridCube: i got mirroring
[16:44] <GridCube> :) with grandr?
[16:44] <holstein> i just had to set it to "auto"
[16:45] <holstein> theres a couple checkboxes
[16:45] <GridCube> :P i see
[16:45] <holstein> the 'off' checkbox
[16:45] <holstein> i unchecked that, and expected it to come 'on' ;)
[16:45] <GridCube> but when you do that your pointers work?
[16:45] <holstein> my mistake...
[16:45] <holstein> GridCube: seems OK
[16:45] <GridCube> :(
[16:45] <holstein> my pointer
[16:45] <holstein> im not rotating though
[16:46] <holstein> also, 'clone' and 'extend' are greyed out
[16:46] <holstein> hmmmm
[16:50] <holstein> GridCube: i rotated, and the pointer seemed cool
[16:50] <holstein> whats your issue?
[16:51] <holstein> i'll see if i can reproduce it
[16:53] <GridCube> if i rotate the screen my touchscreen gets inversed inputs
[16:54] <holstein> OH... i dont have a touchscreen
[16:54] <holstein> i bet thats the deal
[16:54] <holstein> drag...
[16:54] <GridCube> if i touch the top right corner the pointer clics on the letf lower corner
[16:54] <holstein> yeah... something hasnt got passed on to the right place for that yet i bet
[16:54] <GridCube> :(
[16:55] <GridCube> also the acelerometer doesnt work, so it doesnt autorotates the screen
[16:55] <holstein> w0w... those are nearly deal-breaking issues
[17:09] <holstein> grandr is a fail
[17:09] <holstein> at least with my 7 minutes of testing ;)
[17:10] <madnick> holstein: have you created a virtual screen?
[17:10] <holstein> not that im aware of madnick 
[17:10] <holstein> but, whatever it is needs to be a GUI tool
[17:11] <holstein> madnick: i got mirroring working fine
[17:11] <holstein> but, the other options were greyed out
[17:11] <madnick> yup, it can likely not set the resolution
[17:13] <GridCube> holstein, and lxrandr?
[17:14] <holstein> GridCube: lemme try it..
[17:14] <GridCube> nah
[17:14] <GridCube> its even symplier
[17:14] <holstein> yeah
[17:15] <holstein> seems like it will *only* mirror
[17:15] <holstein> its not bad just having 2 tools
[17:15] <GridCube> waait
[17:15] <holstein> they just need to be labeled
[17:15] <GridCube> tell me you have tryed xfce4-display-settings
[17:15] <holstein> i dont want to have 'monitor' and 'monitor settings' in the menu
[17:17] <holstein> GridCube: im not finding it
[17:17] <GridCube> it should be preinstalled
[17:17] <GridCube> run it from a terminal :P
[17:17] <holstein> yeah... im not finding it
[17:17] <GridCube> D:
[17:17] <holstein> OH...i found it :)
[17:18] <holstein> hmmm
[17:18] <holstein> see, maybe its something with this hardware
[17:18] <holstein> everything is greyed out here too
[17:19] <GridCube> oh
[17:19] <GridCube> thats bad
[17:19] <GridCube> but thats not the programs fault then
[17:19] <holstein> well, maybe
[17:19] <holstein> whats it do for you?
[17:20] <holstein> ok... i got the greyed out options going
[17:20] <holstein> but, it seems it only mirrors :/
[17:22] <GridCube> unset the "auto"
[17:23] <holstein> in xfce4-* ?
[17:23] <GridCube> or in grandr
[17:26] <holstein> yeah... still greyed out for me
[17:26] <holstein> not sure...
[17:31] <GridCube> dunno
[17:31] <GridCube> :)
[17:31] <GridCube> well i gotta go
[18:12] <micahg> charlie-tca: so our images are uninstallable for the same reason as ubuntu, so nothing for me to fix :)
[18:17] <charlie-tca> I couldn't even find the errors in the logs for what is uninstallable
[18:18] <charlie-tca> I did figure we start testing about the time I get to Idaho, though. Give it time to shake out
[18:18] <micahg> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/report.html
[18:18] <madnick> charlie-tca: could you confirm bug 886401
[18:20] <charlie-tca> micahg: I never even thought to look at that. Thanks :)
[18:20] <charlie-tca> madnick: looking
[18:20] <madnick> Its not really a bug, its just an enabled extension that is gnome centric
[18:20] <charlie-tca> Then it should not be valid for xubuntu?
[18:20] <madnick> But nevertheless it does not work in Xubuntu to use it, and its enabled by default :P
[18:22] <madnick> Well, it gives xubuntu users the option, but then does not deliver, i can see how that would be frustrating for people using gthumb
[18:22] <charlie-tca> will confirm then, and leave open for "metoo"s
[18:22] <madnick> thanks :)
[18:28] <madnick> bug 883249 is valid aswell, there ought to be a workaround, from what ive seen it overwrites the data in ~/.config/xfce4
[18:32] <charlie-tca> workaround for that one is removing ~/.config/xfce4 and restarting
[18:34] <madnick> yeah :(
[18:36] <charlie-tca> At least there is a workaround, instead of having to reinstall
[18:38] <madnick> true :P
[18:46] <charlie-tca> Okay, both done
[18:48] <madnick> charlie-tca: have you seen what the greeter engine im working on is capable of? :P
[18:48] <charlie-tca> no, is it using lightdm?
[18:48] <madnick> yes
[18:48] <madnick> im working on a rewrite the one used in this video:
[18:48] <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/gspaceball/
[18:49] <madnick> Basically, it uses my generic engine, then it runs my theme, which in this case is a breakout game :)
[18:49] <madnick> "on a rewrite of the one"* :)
[18:50] <charlie-tca> neat
[18:50] <madnick> :)
[18:51] <madnick> atm im sketching on some UML diagrams for the implementation in an object oriented language instead of C
[18:52] <charlie-tca> Still seems to be a pain switching from lightdm-gtk-greeter to unity-greeter
[18:52] <charlie-tca> and the other way, too.
[18:53] <madnick> yes
[18:56] <micahg> we should make it so dpkg-reconfigure works
[18:56] <charlie-tca> yes
[18:57] <charlie-tca> I thought that was being worked for Precise already?
[18:59]  * micahg has no idea, should've been done for oneiric
[19:00] <charlie-tca> we ran outof time, we only had the greeter working derivatives for the final
[19:26] <charlie-tca> I will be back for the meeting. Need to take a break
[19:27] <ochosi> hm, when's the meeting again today?
[19:27] <charlie-tca> 22:00 U"TC
[19:27] <Unit193> 22UTC
[19:27] <ochosi> ty
[19:27] <ochosi> wasn't sure anymore
[19:29] <Unit193> 2 hours, 30 minutes
[19:29] <ochosi> :)
[19:30] <ochosi> Unit193: are you doing a countdown for me?
[19:30] <Unit193> Might as well :D (But Charlie is far better)
[19:31] <ochosi> in fact it'd be nice if ubottu could do reminders for things like meetings or deadlines
[19:31] <ochosi> ubottu: can you do that for us?
[19:31] <ochosi> awwh
[19:35] <astraljava> Yeah, that's a demanding task alright. No offense to whoever are doing it, of course.
[19:36] <Unit193> ./ubottu is overloaded as it is
[19:50] <genii-around> Yep
[19:51] <Unit193> ^^ Would know, it's doing good as it is
[19:51] <astraljava> How so? Does it not scale? Is it sitting on a 486SX?
[19:52] <genii-around> An old server running 7.04 actually
[19:54] <Unit193> Tracking bans, factoids, packages, bugs... And it's all running on Python (Supybot)
[19:55] <astraljava> Surely it's got some timers already, though. It's not like there are millions of meetings.
[19:56] <astraljava> But anyway, apologies for the lack of smileys. My initial line was actually a response to ubottus template answer, not towards anyone who maintains it.
[19:57] <astraljava> I know sarcasm is lost on the internet.
[19:57] <Unit193> I've actually got a nice clone up, but it's not quite the same
[19:58] <astraljava> Why? Wouldn't it serve this purpose excellently?
[19:59] <Unit193> It's not actually running on a server, just a computer that I don't intend to turn off :P
[20:00] <astraljava> de-facto server, then
[20:01] <Unit193> Just about, yeah.  This best in offtopic?
[20:01] <astraljava> Sure, but I'm all done anyway. Joke carried on for too long, from my POV.
[21:18] <olbi> hello, meeting is over?
[21:19] <astraljava> Hasn't started yet.
[21:19] <olbi> wow :D
[21:19] <astraljava> in 40 minutes we're a-go.
[21:20] <olbi> oh, I have +1 hour :P
[21:20] <olbi> forgot that :]
[21:20] <astraljava> Yep, DST is over.
[21:26] <astraljava> Err... that woulda affected the other way around. Whatever.
[21:37]  * micahg hopes a production system that's internet facing isn't running 7.04
[21:42] <astraljava> Someone likes to live on the edge?
[21:42] <charlie-tca> If it is behind a good firefall, does it matter?
[21:42] <astraljava> Packet-crafting can penetrate firewalls.
[21:45] <micahg> charlie-tca: yes
[21:46] <knome> xubuntu community meeting in 15 minutes :)
[21:48] <charlie-tca> knome: I only have about an hour I stay around.
[21:48] <knome> charlie-tca, let's try to go through all the stuff in that time
[21:49] <charlie-tca> You are chairing, should be able to hold it to that.
[21:49] <charlie-tca> You can always email me if I miss something
[21:49] <astraljava> Yeah, after all, it's not a Studio meeting.
[21:49] <Unit193> It's got Apache/2.2.14 at any rate
[21:52] <knome> charlie-tca, and we have the meeting minutes (trying to use meetingology as much as possible now)
[21:52] <charlie-tca> um, I think we have always had minutes
[21:53] <olbi> :)
[21:53] <knome> charlie-tca, yeah, but the #info and stuff
[21:54] <knome> charlie-tca, try to create better minutes, so you don't need to read the log at all to see what people talked about
[21:55] <knome> hmm.
[21:56] <knome> we should give topic editing rights to meetingology later
[21:56] <Unit193> Op, /mode -t
[21:56] <knome> that's not too good.
[21:56] <knome> everybody can change the topic then
[21:57] <Unit193> Would work for the meeting until you get it changed
[21:57] <knome> i suppose you can give topic editing rights for a nick in freenode
[21:57] <knome> not so important
[21:57] <knome> i'll fix it after the meeting :)
[21:58] <knome> charlie-tca, will you give me +votsriRfAF for #xubuntu* ?
[21:59] <charlie-tca> You should already have full op there? 
[21:59] <charlie-tca> what is all that?
[21:59] <knome> that gives me "owner" rights
[21:59] <knome> which gives me access to modify the access
[21:59] <knome> so i don't need to poke you anymore :)
[21:59] <knome> #startmeeting Xubuntu Community Meeting
[21:59] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov  7 21:59:57 2011 UTC.  The chair is knome. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[21:59] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[22:00] <knome> hey everybody!
[22:00] <knome> our agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[22:01] <knome> if you say anything during the meeting, you will be counted as participant
[22:01] <knome> are we all ready, or does somebody need a minute or two?
[22:01]  * madnick is ready
[22:02]  * beardygnome is ready
[22:02] <olbi> we are ready :D
[22:02] <knome> okay, great
[22:02] <knome> let's start with our agenda then
[22:02] <knome> #topic Old Business
[22:02] <knome> #subtopic Top 10 FAQ for the new website
[22:03] <knome> GridCube seems to be offline, any updates about this?
[22:03] <knome> okay, nothing...
[22:03] <knome> #subtopic madnick: Build a lightdm greeter
[22:03] <madnick> 1 sec
[22:03] <charlie-tca> It was waiting for a review only
[22:03] <ochosi> pfew, right on time
[22:04] <olbi> :P
[22:04] <madnick> http://gridcube.netii.net/test.htm
[22:04] <knome> charlie-tca, okay, i'll announce that later
[22:04] <madnick> o/
[22:04] <knome> madnick, wasn't there an other document too? (go ahead)
[22:05] <olbi> so short this top 10 questions :P
[22:05] <madnick> oh sorry, yes there is other documents, but this was the one i cound find bookmarked, and for the greeter:
[22:05] <knome> https://docs.google.com/a/shimmerproject.org/document/d/1HyhsMPDyyN-mRWRujfZX3JuKX9aWFQPWsxMEiJX99gQ/edit?hl=en&pli=1
[22:05] <madnick> I am working on a redesign of the engine, doing UML design, and reading docs, trying to collect all features possbile to make it modular as possible
[22:06] <olbi> ok, I think it should be translated to other langs
[22:06] <knome> #info madnick is working on a redesign of the engine, doing UML design, reading docs
[22:06] <knome> madnick, you can use #info too
[22:06] <madnick> okay :)
[22:06] <knome> olbi, let's get back to that later.
[22:06] <olbi> knome: ok
[22:07] <knome> madnick, is there any draft?
[22:07] <knome> madnick, or are we using the old style?
[22:07] <madnick> oh, for the acctual theme, i have not done anything
[22:07] <knome> okay
[22:07] <madnick> Just working to make the engine be able to handle all needs
[22:07] <knome> okay
[22:07] <knome> you know more about this next week?
[22:08] <madnick> yes
[22:08] <knome> great
[22:08] <olbi> I think, the style is good for xubunt website
[22:08] <olbi> but it should has some started guide
[22:09] <knome> olbi, are you talking about the website?
[22:09] <olbi> for actually supported versions of Xubuntu
[22:09] <olbi> knome: yes
[22:09] <knome> olbi, can we get back to other subjects later please
[22:09] <knome> #subtopic Ristretto as default image viewer
[22:09] <olbi> my fault :(
[22:09] <knome> comments, anybody?
[22:09] <charlie-tca> still buggy?
[22:09] <ochosi> i've worked a bit with stephen on ristretto 0.3.0
[22:10] <knome> #info Ristretto has got many updates lately (nearly a complete rewrite)
[22:10] <ochosi> i mean mostly in an advisory and testing position
[22:10] <knome> ochosi, you too can use #info :)
[22:10] <Unit193> Last I knew you couldn't use arrow keys to browse
[22:10] <ochosi> it's working great and as far as i'm concerned a lot more as the user would expect
[22:10] <ochosi> yep
[22:10] <olbi> are there some packages for ristretto 0.3 for xubuntu?
[22:10] <ochosi> that was one of the changes
[22:10] <ochosi> no, not yet
[22:10] <Unit193> Great!
[22:10] <knome> any blocking stuff?
[22:10] <micahg> when it hits testing it'll be syncs
[22:10] <micahg> *synd
[22:11] <ochosi> # Ristretto has become a lot more stable towards 0.3.0 and at the same time gained new features
[22:11] <ochosi> #info Ristretto has become a lot more stable towards 0.3.0 and at the same time gained new features
[22:11] <ochosi> what were the blockers again?
[22:11] <knome> using thumbnailbar crashed ristretto :P
[22:11] <knome> and stuff..
[22:11] <ochosi> right, no, that's not happening at all now
[22:11] <knome> yep
[22:11] <ochosi> and a thumbnailbar-redesign is underway
[22:11] <madnick> Can ristretto handle svg files?
[22:12] <ochosi> so that might even happen in time for 12.04 (depending on stephen's bathroom renovation :) )
[22:12] <knome> #info Thumbnailbar problems have been fixed, redesign is in progress
[22:12] <knome> ochosi, do you know about ristretto and svg?
[22:13] <ochosi> madnick: not sure, will quickly check (i have git-version here), one sec
[22:13] <olbi> if not, what imageviewer we choose?
[22:13] <knome> gthumb is default now
[22:14] <ochosi> gthumb is really something different imo, it's more a manager than a viewer
[22:14] <madnick> gthumb has some extensions that wont work with xubuntu enabled by default
[22:14] <micahg> well, we shipped both
[22:14] <knome> olbi, and anybody is free to create a app comparison spec
[22:14] <knome> madnick, yes, but gthumb is default, am i right? :)
[22:14] <knome> micahg, ^
[22:14] <madnick> knome: yes
[22:14] <knome> yep
[22:14] <micahg> idr, I thought it was default for some things
[22:14] <ochosi> #info Ristretto can display svg
[22:14] <olbi> i use gpicview but it can't handle svg too :(
[22:15] <knome> any other comments?
[22:15] <olbi> can it go forward with arrows?
[22:15] <olbi> to other images?
[22:15] <ochosi> olbi: ristretto?
[22:15] <olbi> yes
[22:15] <ochosi> yes
[22:15] <ochosi> it can
[22:15] <charlie-tca> Looks to me like we still have some critical bugs in it
[22:15] <ochosi> that was one of the improvements
[22:15] <olbi> at least :D
[22:15] <charlie-tca> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ristretto
[22:15] <mr_pouit> +1 with ochosi, I don't think people should see gthumb as a quick viewer (that's ristretto). With gthumb I guess you can manage your photo collection
[22:16] <ochosi> charlie-tca: are those reports on a more recent version of ristretto?
[22:16] <knome> 0.0.93
[22:16] <charlie-tca> I haven't looked at every one to verify the versions
[22:16] <knome> at least the hangs
[22:16] <micahg> right, it was totally rewritten
[22:16] <charlie-tca> each one will need to be tested against the latest version
[22:16] <ochosi> those older bugreports most likely don't matter anymore
[22:16] <ochosi> but yeah, we can test them
[22:17] <knome> ochosi, would you be willing to test those bugs against the new version, and report the outcome?
[22:17] <ochosi> i could, but not this week (i'm rather busy)
[22:17] <madnick> i could compile it and check it
[22:17] <knome> #action ochosi or madnick to test the bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ristretto with the latest version, and report back
[22:17] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi or madnick to test the bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ristretto with the latest version, and report back
[22:17] <ochosi> it's not very difficult, you just have to clone, compile it and then run it from the src-dir with "./ristretto"
[22:18] <knome> okay good
[22:18] <knome> let's continue about this next week when we know more
[22:18] <knome> #subtopic "maybe-ubiquity" option
[22:18] <knome> what is this? who is the assignee?
[22:18] <micahg> knome: you might want to defer that testing until next week when we have 0.3.0
[22:18] <charlie-tca> The project lead/release manager
[22:19] <knome> okay
[22:19] <knome> #info Will get back to the issue in the next meeting
[22:19] <knome> #subtopic Ubuntu moving to 5-year release schedule for LTS
[22:19] <charlie-tca> knome: all those lts items were assigned to project lead
[22:19] <micahg> knome: I was talking about ristretto not ubiquity
[22:20] <knome> micahg, ah...
[22:20] <knome> charlie-tca, sure, but i don't know what maybe-ubiquity is from the top of my head so somebody who does should explain it to me first.
[22:20] <micahg> should be syncd on the 15/16
[22:20] <knome> so, let's move that to next week too
[22:20] <knome> so somebody will have more time to explain it to me :P
[22:20] <knome> charlie-tca, what did you gather about the 5-year schedule in UDS?
[22:21] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu can choose to have 18 month, three-year, or five-year cycle for Precise.
[22:21] <mr_pouit> it's the nice frontendof ubiquity that moves the language and boot selection screen later afaik
[22:21] <knome> #info Xubuntu can choose to have 18 month, three-year, or five-year cycle for Precise.
[22:21] <charlie-tca> There are now procedures to have Xubuntu designated as an official LTS release. This has the advantage of allowing the cd images to be rebuilt at each point upgrade.
[22:21] <knome> #info There are now procedures to have Xubuntu designated as an official LTS release. This has the advantage of allowing the cd images to be rebuilt at each point upgrade.
[22:21] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/ tells us what we must do to maintain official derivative status.
[22:21] <knome> #info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/ tells us what we must do to maintain official derivative status.
[22:22] <charlie-tca> Normally, the project lead is also the release manager for Xubuntu.
[22:22] <olbi> should we go to DVDs?
[22:22] <charlie-tca> If so, I will notify the appropriate people to keep you informed.
[22:22] <charlie-tca> I started a release checklist at
[22:22] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu Release Manager - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Development/ReleaseProcess
[22:22] <charlie-tca> LTS 
[22:23] <knome> charlie-tca, can we have some time about this together later this week?
[22:23] <charlie-tca> and, lastly, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedDerivatives tells how to become an official derivative, as well as how to gain the LTS designator (last section).
[22:23] <charlie-tca> sure
[22:23] <knome> great
[22:23] <charlie-tca> I will be on and off until about November 24
[22:23] <knome> #info https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecognizedDerivatives tells how to become an official derivative, as well as how to gain the LTS designator (last section).
[22:24] <knome> #action Developers to read documents in the URLs linked
[22:24] <meetingology> ACTION: Developers to read documents in the URLs linked
[22:24] <knome> #action knome and charlie-tca to get around together about this
[22:24] <meetingology> ACTION: knome and charlie-tca to get around together about this
[22:24] <knome> #info Discussion will continue next week
[22:24] <knome> #topic Team updates
[22:24] <knome> #subtopic Packaging, Development
[22:25] <knome> please use '#info blahblah'
[22:25] <knome> so we'll get the stuff directly to minutes, and they are easier to pick to the official team reports too
[22:25] <knome> micahg, mr_pouit ?
[22:26] <mr_pouit> #info Nothing big this week: xfce4-indicator-plugin fixed in oneiric-updates for some open issues, and micahg did some syncs from debian testing
[22:27] <knome> that's it? :)
[22:27] <ochosi> mr_pouit: ooh, scrollwheel-stuff and togglebutton is fixed?
[22:27] <mr_pouit> yeah, let me find the bug numbers ;>
[22:28] <mr_pouit> Bug #852017 and Bug #879928
[22:28] <ochosi> hm, i have all oneiric updates activated, but it seems i haven't received that update yet... :/
[22:28] <knome> ooh, nice!
[22:28]  * ochosi is soo keen to get it
[22:28] <knome> good work :)
[22:28] <knome> mr_pouit, you ready? :)
[22:29] <mr_pouit> (0.3.1-1ubuntu3.1 is the fixed version. It was accepted 16h ago, so maybe some mirrors haven't updated yet)
[22:29]  * ochosi switches to ubuntu.com servers
[22:29] <mr_pouit> knome: that's all, unless micahg has something to add ;-)
[22:29] <micahg> nope
[22:29] <knome> #subtopic Bug Triage, Testing
[22:30] <knome> charlie-tca? :)
[22:30] <knome> still pretty quiet for pangolin is it
[22:30] <charlie-tca> #info all testing will now be coordinated through the QA ISO tracker, including daily testing
[22:30] <Unit193> Starting tests Nov 24th, correct?
[22:30] <charlie-tca> #info New process for images... if you break it, you fix it, and you get 3 hours
[22:30] <knome> madnick, want to add a few words about the testing system?
[22:31] <charlie-tca> #info we will start our daily testing between 24 and 28 November
[22:31] <olbi> cool :)
[22:31] <madnick> knome: well, this overrides it, i think? i will still continue developing it, because it may be useful, not sure if gridcube will however
[22:31] <knome> right
[22:31] <knome> don't know QA ISO tracker, but i suppose it does.
[22:32] <knome> anything else from bugs or testing?
[22:32] <charlie-tca> I want to thank both GridCube and madnick for their work on the testing setup, but with qa iso tracker, we will not be using it
[22:32] <madnick> charlie-tca: "you break it you fix it in 3 hours"?
[22:32] <knome> good to have a tool, even if it was not ours
[22:32] <charlie-tca> The developer that uploads a broken package will have to fix it, including weekends and off days,.
[22:32] <madnick> ohhh
[22:32] <charlie-tca> They initial fix time goal is 3 hours
[22:33] <ochosi> sounds pretty ambitious
[22:33] <knome> i hope this applies to canonical developers too
[22:33]  * madnick thought it was about if you broke it while testing :P
[22:33] <knome> does it apply to a package breaking some other package too?
[22:33] <charlie-tca> applies to everyone, 
[22:33] <charlie-tca> They will revert the package if needed to fix the others
[22:33] <knome> okay
[22:34] <knome> let's hope this works as planned
[22:34] <charlie-tca> we all do
[22:34] <knome> yep
[22:34] <knome> anything else, or shall we continue?
[22:34] <charlie-tca> The goal is to have working images, as much as possible
[22:34] <charlie-tca> I'm done
[22:34] <knome> okay
[22:34] <knome> #subtopic Website, Documentation
[22:35] <knome> #info Finishing touches are made for the website
[22:35] <olbi> we should add starting guide on website for newers :]
[22:35] <knome> #info Discussion about website content at the developer mailing list, will give people at least a week to share their ideas and drafts
[22:36] <knome> olbi, yes, and we should be getting the Top 10 FAQ online too on our staging site
[22:36] <ochosi> mr_pouit: confirmed, scrollbar works again over sound-indicator! yay!
[22:37] <knome> #action knome will schedule a sprint for the website content review and update next week
[22:37] <meetingology> ACTION: knome will schedule a sprint for the website content review and update next week
[22:37] <knome> #subtopic Marketing, Artwork
[22:38] <ochosi> right
[22:38] <ochosi> i've mostly done minor tweaks of greybird lately
[22:38] <knome> #info madnick works on Plymouth and lightdm to create a nice booting experience; we follow the artistic specification created for Oneiric
[22:39] <ochosi> some of you know already
[22:39] <ochosi> #info ochosi has created a dark style for xfce4-datetime-plugin http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-11072011-113830pm.php
[22:39] <olbi> we need better artworks for apps, in Xubuntu 11.10 when I used FF 7.0 and for examples wordpress plugin "Add images" it doesnt look good :/
[22:39] <ochosi> #info A patched version is available for testing in the shimmer PPA (thanks to mr_pouit). You'll need Greybird from git though.
[22:40] <Unit193> A few combo GTK2/3 themes would be good, IMO
[22:40] <ochosi> +1
[22:40] <knome> #info New website needs dynamic content, see the message on developer mailing list: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2011-October/008004.html
[22:40] <olbi> only greybird is supported now?
[22:40] <ochosi> but who will do them ;)
[22:40] <ochosi> olbi: yes, atm it's only greybird...
[22:41] <knome> olbi, application specific stuff should mostly go upstream, we don't want to use time fixing other peoples bugs
[22:41] <knome> yes, greybird is the only feasible gtk2+3 theme right now
[22:41] <Unit193> ochosi: xfce-look doesn't even have a subpage with them yet, while gnome-look does :/
[22:41] <ochosi> Unit193: well, in fact that makes sense because xfce is still all-gtk2
[22:41] <olbi> i dont like greybird, better is bluebird
[22:42] <olbi> but support under 11.10 is poor so use now greybird :]
[22:42] <ochosi> doing bluebird's gtk3 won't be too difficult, albatross will a lot more challenging
[22:42] <knome> #info Ideas for the new website content, including drafts, should be sent to the developer mailing list, and you can use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Drafts too
[22:42] <knome> olbi, ^ about xubuntu/ubuntu/kubuntu diffs etc.
[22:42] <ochosi> if any of you feel like supporting me here, that'd be nice
[22:42] <knome> i'll help you as much as i can
[22:43] <charlie-tca> testing will help, when we can. I can't upgrade to precise until I get to Idaho, though
[22:43] <daz1> I would like to offer my help in any way with themes
[22:43] <olbi> ehh, site is working like it is on huge load :/
[22:43] <ochosi> daz1: nice, thanks. let's talk about it after the meeting?
[22:44] <knome> olbi, the wiki is always slow, that's why ML is okay too
[22:44] <knome> #action Those interested in helping with themes (testing or anything else), contact ochosi
[22:44] <meetingology> ACTION: Those interested in helping with themes (testing or anything else), contact ochosi
[22:44] <knome> ochosi, anything else you want to add?
[22:45] <ochosi> hm, not for now, i guess even greybird needs a few gtk3-fixes
[22:45] <knome> okay
[22:45] <knome> #topic Announcements
[22:46] <knome> #info No (other) announcements.
[22:46] <knome> #topic Other Business
[22:46] <knome> #subtopic Xubuntu brainstorming day/weekend
[22:46] <knome> ochosi, go ahead
[22:46] <knome> ochosi, (and please use #info where applicable)
[22:48] <ochosi> right
[22:48] <ochosi> (and sry for the delay)
[22:48] <knome> np
[22:49] <ochosi> my idea was develop a – maybe even longish – todo list for precise
[22:49] <ochosi> something like a real roadmap
[22:49] <ochosi> but basically say: we have until next week to add stuff to that list, and then it's "done"
[22:49] <ochosi> "done" obviously excludes bugfixes
[22:50] <ochosi> but settle on features we would like to see and then concentrate on those
[22:50] <knome> i think this is a good idea
[22:50] <ochosi> the way i experienced the last cycles there were always a lot of things coming up late in the cycle
[22:50] <charlie-tca> I defer to mr_pouit for that. I think the developers should play an active role
[22:50] <ochosi> and this is something that is very strainful – especially for people who are also fixing bugs...
[22:50] <knome> i think the whole community should take part
[22:50] <ochosi> exactly
[22:51] <ochosi> in xfce they have something like that
[22:51] <ochosi> they develop a roadmpa
[22:51] <ochosi> map
[22:51] <ochosi> and then they try to find assignees
[22:51] <olbi> yep
[22:51] <ochosi> obviously without an assignee a feature isn't going to be implemented
[22:51] <olbi> it is very good :)
[22:51] <ochosi> but that way we could also "track" what's going on
[22:51] <ochosi> finding assignees could happen after the "feature freeze" for the roadmap
[22:51] <ochosi> and also items could be dropped, but not added
[22:52] <ochosi> (not sure how strict this policy would have to be though, just thinking out loud)
[22:52] <charlie-tca> so, basically, you really want blueprints that we did not do for UDS?
[22:52] <knome> the reality is most of us can't attend UDS
[22:52] <ochosi> yes, but in a more accessible way, e.g. in the wiki
[22:52] <knome> and that the things planned in UDS very rarely happen
[22:53] <charlie-tca> Why isn't launchpad blueprints fully accessible by everyone?
[22:53] <knome> unless you have people that are committed, and it's too easy to promise something in UDS
[22:53] <knome> yes, it's a shame we didn't have blueprints for UDS.
[22:53] <charlie-tca> actually, the entire Ubuntu distro is built from blueprints that happen at UDS. Xubuntu has only tried to use them one time.
[22:53] <knome> the problem is that we had a really weak representation at UDS
[22:54] <knome> and those who are there, don't really have time to hang out at IRC
[22:54] <ochosi> charlie-tca: maybe it's me being used to editing wikis, but i tend to think they're quick and more intuitive to use than launchpad. also: many people don't even know what a "blueprint" is. i have read discussions on irc about that again and again
[22:54] <knome> this should be done BEFORE UDS in the next cycle, but it's not possible anymore for pangolin
[22:54]  * micahg has to go will check backscroll later
[22:54] <ochosi> but really, i'm not opposing using blueprints as a means to accomplish this
[22:55] <ochosi> the main thing is the idea of getting more users involved and collecting more ideas
[22:55] <knome> #idea Schedule a daay or two for Xubuntu brainstorming, and create the blueprints for the release during those days
[22:55] <charlie-tca> Yes, they should be done before UDS, but they can still be built at this time
[22:55] <knome> #info This should be done before UDS in the next cycles, but since we are already late, we will have to stick with this timeframe
[22:56] <ochosi> suggestion: we could create a wikipage for starters
[22:56] <charlie-tca> It also requires more than just one or two people applying to go to UDS.
[22:56] <ochosi> and those ideas that find assignees "become" blueprints
[22:56] <knome> #action knome to create a Doodle poll for best days for the majority of contributors so we can see which dates would be the best
[22:56] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to create a Doodle poll for best days for the majority of contributors so we can see which dates would be the best
[22:57] <ochosi> knome: maybe make it more than one day in a row
[22:57] <knome> charlie-tca, that's a problem that does beyond the blueprints only
[22:57] <knome> ochosi, yes
[22:57] <knome> err -only
[22:57] <ochosi> any more thoughts on this?
[22:57] <knome> #action ochosi to build a wikipage around the idea
[22:57] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to build a wikipage around the idea
[22:58] <olbi> I can help :)
[22:58] <ochosi> nice
[22:58] <knome> #info Discussion will continue on the mailing list and the following community meetings after the wikipage and the Doodle poll is set
[22:59] <knome> #subtopic Contributor check
[22:59] <knome> #action knome to send an email about this to the mailing list in the following week
[22:59] <meetingology> ACTION: knome to send an email about this to the mailing list in the following week
[22:59] <knome> #subtopic Meeting times
[23:00] <knome> #info Will be discussed at the next meeting. The next meeting is at Sunday, November 13 at 22UTC.
[23:00] <knome> #subtopic Any other business
[23:00] <knome> anybody?
[23:01] <olbi> I dont have now
[23:01] <Unit193> GridCube had this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GridCube/ProposedChanges , but he isn't here so....
[23:01] <knome> okay, any discussion should be continued on the mailing list, or IRC
[23:01] <knome> Unit193, let's discuss those when he's online
[23:02] <knome> #endmeeting
[23:02] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov  7 23:02:02 2011 UTC.  
[23:02] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2011/xubuntu-devel.2011-11-07-21.59.moin.txt
[23:02] <knome> thanks.
[23:02] <charlie-tca> Thank you, knome 
[23:02] <knome> tight fit, but we made it in about an hour! :)
[23:02] <charlie-tca> will see you later this week here.
[23:02] <knome> yep!
[23:03] <madnick> knome: ochosi and i talked about making the xscreensaver loginbox prettier
[23:03] <knome> okay
[23:03] <knome> i'll be back really soon
[23:03] <beardygnome> madnick: that's a great idea
[23:04] <madnick> :)
[23:04] <beardygnome> i use gnome-screensaver atm because xscreensaver looks so bad
[23:04] <ochosi> beardygnome: yeah, problem is: you have to edit the source because it doesn't support theming
[23:04] <ochosi> but if we do it might turn out to be nice, who knows
[23:05] <ochosi> personally i'd try not to make it too xubuntu-specific (in terms of looks) so that other people/distros/DEs can use it as well
[23:07] <beardygnome> ochosi: sounds good
[23:08] <knome> madnick, yeah, ++
[23:08] <ochosi> madnick: i'm about to revamp the Roadmap page, would you mind adding your stuff there?
[23:08] <knome> i will be updating the meeting minutes, will read stuff after that again
[23:09] <madnick> ochosi: not sure what that means :P
[23:09] <ochosi> madnick: hehe, i'll ping you again when the page is ready ;)
[23:09] <madnick> okay
[23:09] <madnick> :D
[23:09] <madnick> sounds good
[23:17] <ochosi> madnick: ok, i think i'll save the page now, you can add a few things yourself then
[23:18] <ochosi> madnick: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
[23:22] <madnick> ochosi: i should add what im working on?
[23:22] <ochosi> madnick: yes, you could add what you plan for precise
[23:23] <madnick> oh okay :)
[23:23] <madnick> sure
[23:27] <olbi> if it is need I could some times checked Xubuntu on laptops 
[23:28] <madnick> ochosi: i probably failed at updating that page properly
[23:29] <ochosi> madnick: hmm, try again? :)
[23:29] <madnick> ochosi: no, it updated, but im not sure it supposed to look like i made it :P
[23:29] <madnick> I created a new big headline
[23:30] <madnick> and added to themes
[23:30] <olbi> is it possible to translate that page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu to another language?
[23:30] <knome> ochosi, the website at xubuntu.org will be translatable later
[23:30] <olbi> midori sux, it shouldn't be
[23:30] <ochosi> madnick: it looks ok, but i'd make the "software development" header [23:31] <madnick> okay thanks
[23:31] <olbi> i prefer staying with thunderbird, claws mail on early development
[23:32] <olbi> but in office, we should add LibreOffice, so much ppl are known this
[23:32] <ochosi> olbi: this is not issues i'd like to discuss *here* and *now*, but things that need careful assessment (=application comparison)
[23:32] <olbi> ok, ok :)
[23:32] <ochosi> without that, i couldn't care less about peoples arguments. there are almost as many arguments for and against a specific app as there are people (and usecases ;) )
[23:32] <olbi> ok, so could you add LibreOffice to this page?
[23:33] <knome> i doubt libreoffice will be installed by default, but yes, you can add that.
[23:33] <ochosi> olbi: you can even do that yourself ;)
[23:33] <knome> somebody needs to be the assignee in driving the change though
[23:33] <olbi> I can edit :D
[23:34] <ochosi> exactly, maybe i should add a disclaimer: "Without an assignee, the proposed changes are not worth the piece of virtual paper they are written on."
[23:45] <ochosi> ok, one quick note on the roadmap page: please create sublists for every *type* of application
[23:45] <ochosi> i can't see why empathy and filezilla should be compared to each other
[23:46] <ochosi> (i.e. make a sublist "instant messaging")
[23:46] <olbi> oh, ok :)
[23:47] <ochosi> theoretically we can also structure it like the application menu, that would mean "web-browsers" would become a sublist of "Internet"
[23:47] <ochosi> personally i don't mind, as long as it's clear and consistent
[23:47] <knome> also, please don't add just everything in the page... the page comes meaningless if you list every possible application
[23:47] <knome> only add those you really would like to see, and possibly also be the assignee in writing a blueprint, and working for it
[23:47] <ochosi> +1