[00:24] <64MAA2DVH> I did a zerofill and a reformated a entire 1TB disk, but now, in ext2 partitions, I can't create a directory with dolphin ... msg is Access denied to /media/722834cd-2063-499e-9446-893d41cd60c8/New Folder.
[00:24] <64MAA2DVH> before my reformat it works
[00:26] <TheMuso> 64MAA2DVH: Do you have write permission to the directory/file in question?
[00:27] <64MAA2DVH> I should, it's a removable device
[00:27] <64MAA2DVH> a 1TB disk in a USB case
[00:27] <64MAA2DVH> or via e-sata
[00:29] <broder> chronos: nothing gives you access to removable devices automatically, if they use a filesystem that has strong permissions (such as ext2)
[00:29] <TheMuso> broder: Exactly what I was about to say. :)
[00:34] <chronos> so with what user I should format these partitions?
[00:34] <chronos> to get access
[00:34] <chronos> this is my external disk, that I use every dau
[00:34] <chronos> *day
[00:42] <TheMuso> chronos: You just need to perform a chown on the root directory on tha tpartition.
[00:43] <maxb> Also, is there a reason to use ext2 over ext3?
[00:43] <TheMuso> Or even ext4.
[00:45] <chronos> I use ext2 cause I put my external hd connected to a router :)
[00:45] <chronos> TheMuso: and what should be the default user of this partition?//
[00:49] <TheMuso> chronos: The user who is going to write to the drive.
[00:50] <chronos> can be various users
[00:50] <chronos> I put chmod 777 and group users
[01:51] <cdbs> jasoncwarner_: there?
[01:51] <cdbs> Hey guys, a quick question:
[01:52] <cdbs> As for the RB vs Banshee discussion, would it be okay if I put up a poll on OMG! Ubuntu! asking readers to choose between those?
[01:52] <cdbs> that would be a good way to check what the community things about the issue
[01:56] <jbicha> I don't think this decision is a popularity contest
[02:00] <cdbs> Well yes it isn't, but still, a good way to check out what the community things about it
[02:00] <jbicha> personally I'm worried that there isn't an official stable release of GTK# for GTK3
[02:00] <cdbs> Are we actually going to dump GTK2?
[02:00] <bryceh> cdbs, check with jasoncwarner_
[02:00] <cdbs> I doubt it
[02:00] <cdbs> since Firefox will still remain GTK2
[02:00] <cdbs> and so will TB
[02:00] <bryceh> cdbs, if you do post it, just make sure to word it carefully
[02:00] <cdbs> bryceh: exactly
[02:01] <cdbs> I blame the recent flamewars because of the wording of articles in the blogosphere
[02:01] <bryceh> yep
[02:01] <cdbs> especially about the 750 MB thing
[02:01] <bryceh> like, instead of posing it as "vote your choice between rhythmbox vs. banshee" do something like, "Which of these are your top concerns if ubuntu switched from banshee to rhythmbox"
[02:02] <jbicha> Mozilla can make big changes in less than 3 months, but yes we likely won't be able to fully get rid of GTK2 on the CD this time
[02:02] <jbicha> oh my math's wrong, <18 weeks
[02:03] <cdbs> jbicha: that way I doubt if banshee NOT being gtk3 is a big issue
[02:03] <jbicha> it actually is an issue: how well is mono being developed?
[02:05] <cdbs> Don't say that
[02:05] <cdbs> Xamarin is driving development really well
[02:05] <cdbs> and the more issues against Mono are raised
[02:05] <cdbs> the more the people will point out about Xamarin
[02:06] <cdbs> since that point is quite wrong
[02:10] <bjsnider> how well is rhythmbox being developed?
[02:12] <jbicha> I don't actually use music players very much, but if we keep Banshee & Mono the lack of GTK3 support will be a question
[02:13] <bjsnider> mono ain't going away
[02:13] <bjsnider> last few times i tried to use rhythmbox it crashed out swiftly
[02:52] <micahg> cdbs: gtk3 port for firefox is progressing
[02:52] <cdbs> That's good to hdar
[02:52] <cdbs> *hear
[02:52] <cdbs> but I'm sure we might still have to stick gtk2 in, because of one app or something
[02:52] <cdbs> there are still quite many apps using it
[02:53] <cdbs> such as TB, s-c-p, software-sources (if I'm not mistaken), just to think of some
[02:53] <cdbs> of course, these other apps can be ported quite easily
[02:54] <cdbs> alright, I was wrong about software-properties-gtk
[02:55]  * cdbs g2g
[03:00] <dobey> people are arguing about that in here too? fun times.
[03:03] <dobey> cdbs: btw, the banshee v rb article on omgubuntu already has a poll attached to it.
[03:45] <bjsnider> just looking over the git repo for rb, there are a couple dozen commits per month, which is a lot more than i expected to see. so maybe it's better than i remember
[03:46] <bjsnider> i don't thinkt he default app is really all that interesting. people can still use what they want
[03:48] <dobey> yeah; see the blog post jono just made :)
[03:50] <bjsnider> url?
[03:55] <dobey> top of planet
[03:56] <dobey> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/08/ubuntu-more-than-the-default-install/
[04:00] <bjsnider> yeah, he's exactly right. you're limiting your experience quite a bit if you only use the default stuff
[06:33] <pitti> Good morning
[06:39] <TheMuso> Hey pitti.
[06:46] <jasoncwarner_> hey, pitti...avoid ubuflu?
[06:47] <pitti> jasoncwarner_: well, I already had it last week, I'm mostly through
[06:48] <didrocks> good morning
[06:48] <jasoncwarner_> pitti: ah, ok. seems seb128 is a bit under the weather.
[06:48] <jasoncwarner_> morning didrocks
[06:48] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[06:48] <didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_, guten morgen pitti
[06:49] <pitti> seems the ML/blogosphere is exploding over the music player :(
[06:50] <jasoncwarner_> pitti: wait, we still ship a music player? :P
[07:27] <desrt> didrocks: damn you!
[07:28]  * desrt is sick :(
[07:29] <didrocks> desrt: urgh, sorry dude
[07:30]  * desrt is in LHR with a headache due to air pressure
[07:31] <pitti> isn't it nice to bring souvenirs back home? :/
[07:32]  * desrt tries a shower
[08:02] <chrisccoulson> good morning desktop team
[08:02] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:02] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[08:02] <desrt> good morning chrisccoulson
[08:03] <chrisccoulson> hi desrt
[08:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: pretty well, ubuflu mostly gone
[08:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: how about yourself?
[08:03] <desrt> pitti: you too, eh? :(
[08:03] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think i'm getting delayed ubuflu
[08:03] <pitti> desrt: there's no escape!
[08:03] <chrisccoulson> or, "flubuntu" as blake put it ;)
[08:03] <desrt> hmmm
[08:03] <chrisccoulson> desrt, did you get it too?
[08:04] <desrt> chrisccoulson: ya.  just after i got back home the symptoms kicked into full gear
[08:04] <desrt> and i just had a miserable head-exploding landing at LHR
[08:04] <desrt> 2 hours ago and my ears still haven't sorted themselves yet
[08:05] <chrisccoulson> that's not nice :(
[08:05] <chrisccoulson> i hope you feel a bit better soon
[08:05] <desrt> within the next 5 or 10 minutes would be nice :)
[08:05]  * desrt takes some drugs
[08:05] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[08:08] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[08:09] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks
[08:13] <jasoncwarner_> morning chrisccoulson , how are things?
[08:13] <chrisccoulson> hi jasoncwarner_. yeah, not too bad thanks. i think i'm mostly recovered from UDS now
[08:13] <chrisccoulson> how about you?
[08:14] <jasoncwarner_> chrisccoulson: pretty good, thanks. just trying to get two kids over jetlag. That is fun ;)
[08:14] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can imagine ;)
[08:18] <desrt> kids + jetlag.  hmm.
[08:18] <desrt> never a thought that entered my head before
[08:19] <jasoncwarner_> desrt: me neither, but oh man, I'm quite aware of that combination now!
[08:19] <desrt> i imagine so...
[09:32] <seb128> hey
[09:32] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va?
[09:32] <seb128> lut didrocks, some ubuflu but good otherwise
[09:32] <seb128> what about you?
[09:33] <didrocks> end of my ubuflu (still some cough), but fine!
[09:35] <pitti> bonjour seb128, ca va?
[09:36] <seb128> hey pitti, ubutflued but otherwise ok
[09:36] <seb128> what about you?
[09:36] <pitti> seb128: ubuflu is mostly gone
[09:36] <seb128> what about jetlag?
[09:36] <hyperair> did a flu spread around UDS or something?
[09:36] <pitti> that went surprisingly well
[09:37] <pitti> hyperair: pretty much every time :)
[09:37] <hyperair> hahah
[09:37]  * hyperair looks forward to attending UDS someday when i no longer need to study for exams
[09:37] <pitti> seb128: I went to bed at 10 on Sunday and woke up at 6, same yesterday/today, so no problem at all
[09:38] <seb128> good, almost the same here, went to bed at 11pm and woke up at 10am the next day
[09:38] <seb128> then midnight to 10 today
[09:38] <seb128> shrug, hate online rants about app selections
[09:39] <seb128> especially when they are partially based on after session etherpad spamming and not on the real discussion
[09:42]  * hyperair is guilty for a bit of the spam
[09:42] <hyperair> whoops.
[09:43] <hyperair> i'm kinda interested to know whose brilliant idea it was to port banshee to vala though.
[09:44] <pitti> I think we can safely discard that :)
[09:44] <pitti> there's a lot of oddity on that pad
[09:44] <pitti> 50.92348239 %, haha
[09:44] <hyperair> oh yeah, that
[09:45] <hyperair> it was there before i woke up
[09:45] <hyperair> if you added the two percentages together, you get more than 100%
[09:45] <hyperair> heheh
[09:45] <pitti> "71.342 % of all statistics have too precise numbers, and 103 % of statistics contain at least one invalid number"
[09:45] <pitti> hyperair: well, that's fine
[09:45] <pitti> you can use both at the same time
[09:45] <pitti> especially with multiple users
[09:46] <hyperair> right.
[09:46] <pitti> but the precision is absurd, and there is no reference to where these numbers came from
[09:46] <hyperair> hahah
[09:46] <pitti> also, there will be a huge bias for whichever app is installed by default
[09:46] <pitti> which is RB <= lucid and Banshee >= maverick
[09:46] <pitti> so you also need to partition the statistics at that point
[09:47] <hyperair> hmm yes that's true
[09:47] <pitti> anyway, I don't think we have a good way of measuring this, and I don't think having it would actually help us much
[09:47] <seb128> vala> that was not even mentioned in the session
[09:47] <hyperair> but for users who upgraded from lucid to maverick, do they continue using rhythmbox or start using banshee?
[09:47] <seb128> that's etherpad spamming
[09:47] <pitti> hyperair: 'zactly
[09:48] <seb128> we never change applications under user feet
[09:48] <didrocks> jibel: hey, how are you?
[09:48] <pitti> it depends on the user's preference
[09:48] <seb128> they can keep running what they were using
[09:48] <hyperair> pitti: supposing the user has no preference. what happens?
[09:48] <pitti> hyperair: you must have one, as you now have two players installed
[09:48] <hyperair> i mean banshee had a clear upgrade path from rhythmbox, but i think you still had to make a conscious decision to change to bnashee
[09:48] <pitti> hyperair: my gut feeling is that more people will continue to use what they got used to, but some might actually try the new one
[09:49] <hyperair> pitti: how is the new one presented to the user anyway?
[09:49] <pitti> but just as everyone else the only thing I have is some totally non-representative anecdotal stories, no representative numbers
[09:49] <pitti> hyperair: they both appear in teh sound indicator, and of course in the menus/unity search
[09:50] <hyperair> pitti: default mime handler changes, though?
[09:50] <pitti> hyperair: for playlists? yes, I think that switched over
[09:51] <hyperair> eh no i'm not talking about playlists
[09:51] <hyperair> i'm talking about double clicking random audio files on the desktop
[09:51] <hyperair> or say selecting "open" in firefox when downloading stuff
[09:51] <pitti> hyperair: totem
[09:51] <hyperair> ah, right, it was totem.
[09:51] <pitti> it's still the right choice for playing individual files, as you don't want to import them into your library first, etc.
[09:52] <hyperair> banshee has a "file system queue" for playing individual files
[09:52] <hyperair> so it all works out fine if the default handler was banshee
[09:53] <hyperair> in fact, it is the default handler for audio files in oneiric.
[09:54] <pitti> ah, someone might have switched that over in 11.10 then
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, after accidentally clicking the search button in nautilus, is there no way to get rid of the search bar without closing the window?
[09:55] <hyperair> pitti: yeah, i did.
[09:55] <pitti> chrisccoulson: Esc doesn't work?
[09:55] <hyperair> pitti: there was a bug where totem was the default music player in gnome3's default things
[09:55] <pitti> chrisccoulson: which search button?
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it doesn't seem to work
[09:56] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: it should. are you sure it's not segfaulting?
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the search button on the right hand side of the toolbar
[09:56] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: works for me.
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> hyperair, yeah, nautilus works fine. just with a search bar that i can't get rid of
[09:56] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: no, i mean esc removes the search bar in nautilus for me
[09:56] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: since when has esc closed nautilus windows anyway? O_o
[09:57] <pitti> chrisccoulson: esc works here
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, now i closed the window and tried again, and esc works for me too
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> but it definitely did not work just a moment ago :/
[09:57] <hyperair> heh
[09:58] <hyperair> are you sure it didn't segfault?
[09:58] <hyperair> and yes, while we're on the topic of nautilus bugs, can we have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/879456 in -proposed please?
[09:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 879456 in nautilus "Typeahead functionality for nautilus is broken" [High,Triaged]
[10:00] <hyperair> hmm i could have sworn i subscribed ubuntu-sponsors and ubuntu-sru to that bug.
[10:01] <hyperair> oh yeah both teams are subscribed.
[10:01] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: ^
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: ugh @ https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~seb128/+specs?role=drafter&searchtext=desktop-p
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: I can draft https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-desktop-boot-speed if you want me to, and set you as approver instead
[10:18] <seb128> pitti, why "ugh", I guess that's because nobody else than me spammed the list with topics before UDS :p
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: well, many of them will be small, like gnome version and bugs,bugs,bugs
[10:18] <seb128> pitti, you are welcome to do so if you want
[10:19] <seb128> pitti, yeah, half the list is "informative", like the vnc or video player ones are not specs, they were topics to raise for discussion that we sorted on the list
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: grabbed boot speed then
[10:19] <seb128> pitti, danke
[10:19] <pitti> seb128: VNC does have WIs, though, at least for the MIRs and seed changes?
[10:19] <huats> morning
[10:19] <seb128> pitti, oh, I didn't check, they maybe hijacked it for the freerdp remmina discussion
[10:19] <pitti> btw, please link the MIR bug instead of adding a whiteboard WI item, better for tracking
[10:20] <seb128> pitti, I will review those today
[10:20] <pitti> seb128: I thought that's what this BP was all about
[10:20] <seb128> lut huats, bien rentré ?
[10:20] <huats> hello seb128
[10:20] <pitti> seb128: but anyway, please let me know if you have many big ones you need help with
[10:20] <huats> yes
[10:20] <huats> et toi,
[10:20] <huats> ?
[10:20] <pitti> seb128: I'll draft the boot speed one now
[10:20] <seb128> pitti, ok, maybe I got confused, there was one about vino being bugged and not redrawing correctly on nvidia and ati drivers
[10:20] <seb128> pitti, which turned to be a driver issue and that was descoped
[10:20] <seb128> huats, no problem from my side ;-)
[10:22] <huats> cool
[10:25] <rickspencer3> hi huats
[10:25] <huats> rickspencer3: hey :)
[10:26] <huats> long time since I saw you !
[10:26] <rickspencer3> huats, indeed
[10:28] <seb128> rickspencer3, salut, bien rentré ?
[10:28] <rickspencer3> seb128, oui oui
[10:29] <rickspencer3> naturalament, j'ai prix un jour en Amsterdam
[10:29] <rickspencer3> dimanche
[10:30] <rickspencer3> aujourd'hui je vais travailler avec huats in leur beaurau :)
[10:30] <seb128> une journée pour récupérer du voyage et du décalage horaire ? ;-)
[10:30] <rickspencer3> seb128, est tois?
[10:30] <seb128> oh, bien
[10:30] <seb128> rickspencer3, je suis bien rentré, rien de spécial à signaler durant le voyage
[10:30] <huats> seb128: on va travailler le françaisde rickspencer3 !
[10:30] <seb128> je me suis couché à 23h et levé 10h, pas de décalage horaire !
[10:30] <seb128> huats, bien! ;-)
[10:37] <seb128> urg, new banshee in precise
[10:37] <seb128> is 2.4 going to be gtk2 or gtk3?
[10:48] <pitti> didrocks: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-unity-quality > don't forget to add "Work items:" before each WI paragraph
[10:49] <didrocks> pitti: right, I'm just doing the first pass with WI right now, then, I'll add the alpha1/2…, and such don't want to spam your script before
[10:50] <pitti> didrocks: ah, ok
[10:51] <pitti> didrocks: the WI tracker is not running for precise yet, though
[10:51] <pitti> oh, wait, it is now
[10:51] <pitti> nice
[10:51] <pitti> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-precise/
[10:52] <didrocks> pitti: I'll add them when knowing which target to aim for :)
[10:57] <pitti> seb128: done with https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-desktop-boot-speed, in your approval queue now
[11:01] <seb128> pitti, danke
[11:09] <rodrigo_> hello
[11:09] <pitti> hey rodrigo_, how are you?
[11:09] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[11:10] <rodrigo_> hi pitti, seb128
[11:10] <rodrigo_> now recovered, after 12 hours sleep last night :)
[11:10] <rodrigo_> everyone back home safely?
[11:11] <seb128> seems so ;-)
[11:11] <didrocks> hey rodrigo_!
[11:12] <rodrigo_> hi didrocks
[11:12] <seb128> some people lost their passports or baggages on the way but everybody made it at the end
[11:13] <rodrigo_> oh, lost password? who? and how did they get out of the US without it?
[11:14] <rodrigo_> passport, not password :)
[11:14] <pitti> seb128: did you hear back from him? I didn't
[11:14] <pitti> rodrigo_: he lost it after the security check
[11:14] <rodrigo_> ah
[11:14] <pitti> apparently someone else took it
[11:14] <mhr3> rodrigo_, i did
[11:14] <seb128> pitti, he was in the plane with us and he said he made it home yesterday
[11:14] <rodrigo_> mhr3, oh, suck :(
[11:14] <seb128> hey mhr3, how are you?
[11:15] <pitti> hey mhr3, good that you made it; did someone bother you when you arrived?
[11:15] <mhr3> seb128, good thx, also slept a while yesterday, but it's easier than getting used to us
[11:15] <mhr3> pitti, nah, in germany it was fine, fortunatelly i had my national id which is good enough here
[11:16] <mhr3> and they found my passport in the us yesterday ("just" 14 hours after my departure)
[11:16] <rodrigo_> I only had one issue also, but yesterday in Madrid with a f***ng taxi driver
[11:16] <rodrigo_> they are bandits in madrid
[11:16] <mhr3> so i'm arranging how to deliver it here...
[11:17] <rodrigo_> I didn't have cash so he tried with 2 credit cards and the machine said the payment didn't work, so went to an ATM to get cash, paid him
[11:17] <pitti> rodrigo_: so you paid him three times?
[11:17] <rodrigo_> and then got a sms for my 2 cards being charged with the amount
[11:17] <rodrigo_> yes, I need to go to the police now, so that my bank can cancel the payments
[11:19] <rodrigo_> I am from Madrid and I know the taxi drivers there suck, not sure what I was thinking about when I wanted to pay with a credit card
[11:20] <rodrigo_> I guess I was too sleepy
[11:54] <chrisccoulson> wow, metacity just crashed for the first time in ages
[12:04] <rodrigo_> hey kamusin
[12:04] <kamusin> hola rodrigo_, how is it going!
[12:04] <rodrigo_> kamusin, we missed you in orlando :(
[12:05] <rodrigo_> did pedro brought you the mickey mouse ears? :D
[12:06] <kamusin> I know I know, me too :( ...  I told him but am not sure.. I think he is in the country side in this moment
[12:12] <seif> hi rodrigo_
[12:12] <seif> rodrigo_, where r u based?
[12:12] <rodrigo_> hi seif
[12:12] <seif> hi davidcalle
[12:12] <rodrigo_> seif, pamplona, spain
[12:13] <davidcalle> hi seif
[12:13] <seif> davidcalle, i am supposed to contact you for the unity-ppl-lens
[12:13] <seif> rodrigo_, and i am supposed ot work with you on getting alm into g-c-c
[12:13] <rodrigo_> seif, hey, you said you didn't want to work with me!! :D
[12:13] <davidcalle> seif, yeah and I'm supposed to contact a Canonical designer about it.
[12:15] <seif> rodrigo_, i was kidding
[12:15] <seif> i love you
[12:15] <seif> :P
[12:15] <rodrigo_> seif, I know :)
[12:15] <davidcalle> seif, I believe you already have a branch (from last year ?) for it.
[12:15] <rodrigo_> love you too :D
[12:15] <seif> davidcalle, yes i do
[12:15] <seif> i would love to take a stab at it again
[12:15] <seif> rewrite in vala
[12:16] <seif> rodrigo_, as for the ALM afaik john lea liked our UI
[12:16] <seif> so its all about converting it to vala and adding it into the g-c-c
[12:16] <rodrigo_> yes
[12:17] <rodrigo_> although libgnome-control-center doesn't exist anymore in g-c-c, it's all in the g-c-c binary
[12:17] <rodrigo_> so we'd need to integrate it into g-c-c proper
[12:18] <seif> yeah
[12:18] <seif> still ok
[12:18] <seif> :)
[12:19] <davidcalle> seif, I'd like to make a python prototype with what design will give us. Kenvandine should be in the loop too as I believe it will be more like a social lens.
[12:20] <seif> davidcalle, ok my work was in python
[12:20] <seif> but i dont think it is up2date with libfolks
[12:21] <davidcalle> seif, but if you want to port yours to vala, we can iterate on it. It's just that I prefer prototyping in python, but that's not a big deal, I will adapt. :)
[12:21] <seif> davidcalle, u kidding i love prototyping in python
[12:21] <seif> :)
[12:22] <davidcalle> great :)
[12:22] <seif> davidcalle, its what i thnk the desktop team needs
[12:22] <seif> more python prototypers
[12:22] <davidcalle> dbarth ^ ;)
[12:23] <seif> davidcalle, we need a OUDIRC movement
[12:23] <seif> Occupy Ubuntu Desktop IRC
[12:23] <seif> demand more python prototyping
[12:24] <davidcalle> Hehe
[12:26] <davidcalle> seif, I will ping Mika from design tomorrow. Do you know the latest libunity lens API?
[12:27] <seif> davidcalle, i can read it today
[12:27] <seif> davidcalle, should not be a big deal
[12:27] <seif> i mean once u go through hacking extensions for gnome shell i think everything is doable
[12:27] <pitti> chrisccoulson: should we really keep https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad targetted to precise, or should I move to q?
[12:28] <davidcalle> seif, https://code.launchpad.net/onehundredscopes there is a template for a lens in trunk, and scopes in other branches.
[12:28] <chrisccoulson> pitti - it's definitely something i'd like to work on in precise. but it's quite low priority
[12:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson: what about https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-desktop-n-firefox-pgo-builds ?
[12:29] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i guess that one's really just a matter of trying a build again
[12:35] <seb128> re
[12:35] <seb128> (back from lunch)
[12:35] <seb128> pitti, I bounced some drafting to others (i.e bugs bugs bugs to pedro) I hope it's ok
[12:35] <seif> davidcalle, awesome
[12:35] <seb128> or calendar to chrisccoulson
[12:35] <pitti> seif: sure
[12:35] <seif> pitti, are u flirting with me
[12:35] <seif> ?
[12:36] <pitti> hey seif
[12:36] <pitti> seif: no, I'm just too dumb to use Tab properly :0
[12:36] <seif> hi pitti
[12:36] <chrisccoulson> seb128, is it fixed yet?
[12:36] <pitti> seb128: sure
[12:36] <seb128> chrisccoulson, lol
[12:36] <chrisccoulson> :-)
[12:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, speaking of which federico was mentioning on #gnome-hackers working on docking issues yesterday, I wonder if that's the dual event bug he was talking about
[12:42] <jbicha> chrisccoulson: I built Firefox with xz compression yesterday and saved a few MB https://launchpad.net/~jbicha/+archive/dev/+build/2907821
[12:42] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-daily/+archive/ppa/+build/2906350
[12:42] <seb128> hey jbicha, how are you?
[12:43] <jbicha> seb128: I'm fine, I had allergies bad or something for a few days but I'm doing better today
[12:44] <seb128> oh, good that you are better then!
[12:44] <jbicha> I hope so :)
[12:44] <jbicha> I can't tell the difference between a cold and bad allergies though
[12:45] <seb128> you perhaps just got ubuflu as well
[12:45] <seb128> seems quite some people were sick this time
[12:49] <pitti> for me it was mostly sore throat and some nose congestion, I felt quite fine otherwise (no fever, no headache, etc.)
[12:50] <pitti> seemed mostly an immune system's "preemtive strike"
[12:50] <pitti> was it much worse for you?
[12:50] <seb128> well I've no fever or headache but running nose which is turning in a cough
[12:51] <seb128> it's mostly annoying, I don't feel tired or bad
[12:53] <seb128> bah
[12:53] <seb128> http://www.generation-nt.com/ubuntu-precise-pangolin-taille-cd-actualite-1499441.html
[12:53] <seb128> title "Ubuntu will not longer fit on a CD"
[12:57] <seb128> we should really do a better job at communicating what happens at UDS with the outside
[13:06] <rickspencer3> seb128, "we should really do a better job at communicating what happens at UDS with the outside"
[13:06] <rickspencer3> it's only 2 days after UDS!
[13:06] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's enough for quite some people picking up infos from etherpads and doing blog or online article about those
[13:06] <rickspencer3> seb128, is it the case that the "DVD image" will be < 750 megs, but there will still be a CD image?
[13:07] <rickspencer3> seb128, I know, and people like to write inflammatory things, without necessarily fact checking first
[13:07] <seb128> rickspencer3, well, the sabdfl agree to bump the CD limit to 750mb when we will need it during the session but consensus is that we will probably don't need it in precise
[13:07] <rickspencer3> fair enough
[13:07] <seb128> so precise should still fit on a CD
[13:08] <rickspencer3> seb128, are we still considering the DVD image to be the "target" image for Precise?
[13:08] <rickspencer3> and making it fit on a 2meg stick?
[13:08] <rickspencer3> <1.5 gig?
[13:08] <pitti> AFAIUI not
[13:08] <pitti> i. e. what ubuntu.com will offer will still be the CD, as long as we have it
[13:08] <seb128> rickspencer3, not really, from the session the sabdfl would like us to drop the 1.5g image to reduce duplication and testing
[13:08] <pitti> and for +1 we'll only have one image which will then be 750 MB
[13:08] <pitti> (which is certainly a bit strange)
[13:09] <rickspencer3> pitti, well 750 fits on a 1gig stick, that's pretty cheap
[13:09] <rickspencer3> fits and makes a nice enduring live image
[13:09] <chrisccoulson> heh, yes, we definitely need to do a better job of communicating decisions made at UDS ;)
[13:09] <rickspencer3> so, no DVD image?
[13:10] <seb128> rickspencer3, the consensus from the session was to use pitti's localized image tools to allow users to create an iso with more than the standard set but not provide any of those directly
[13:10] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, seb128 I said "it's only been 2 days" to say "it's not too late to communicate about it"
[13:10] <seb128> rickspencer3, i.e we would have a standard CD iso and a tools that allow to build a custom iso with that basis and any additional packages you might want
[13:10] <rickspencer3> so, no more DVD image for 12.04?
[13:10] <pitti> "stop thinking that everything that anyone at UDS or on an etherpad ever said is a firm decision, or even being considered"
[13:11] <seb128> pitti, right...
[13:12] <seb128> rickspencer3, well, I don't think there was a strong decision made at the session and it depends if we can get the "build your own custom iso" done tool working good enough to deprecate the dvd need
[13:12] <jbicha> but the blogs and news sites don't want to wait to report what is happening
[13:12] <rickspencer3> jbicha, well, the blogs don't care to report what is happening, they thrive on contoversy
[13:13] <seb128> we should perhaps think about wrapping up the session with a 1 line summary
[13:13] <rickspencer3> thus, you will not see any fact checking from those "sources"
[13:14] <seb128> not sure that would make a big difference but it would allow people to have a somewhat official summary of what was decided
[13:14] <rickspencer3> seb128, pitti, the summary is supposed to build itself from the work item tracker
[13:14] <rickspencer3> that is supposed to represent the work that was decided to be done, and that usually comes after UDS
[13:14] <seb128> right, out of the fact that we do the synthesis work when drafting after UDS
[13:15] <seb128> the etherpad tends to be a notes dump until somebody who was at the session do shuffle things around and do a proper job at writing the blueprint
[13:15] <seb128> right
[13:15] <seb128> well there is maybe not an issue there out of people who like to make some buzz from whatever they can get
[13:15] <seb128> which will indeed not stop since that's what they aim at doing
[13:22] <Laney> you should not be worried too much about people who don't contribute anything
[13:23] <seb128> Laney, well seems even people contributing pick random wrong infos from etherpad
[13:23] <seb128> Laney, seeing the blogs about banshee
[13:23] <Laney> talking about jo?
[13:24] <seb128> not especially, just about comments on the internet, blog posts, etc
[13:24] <seb128> including yours or the replies to the desktop list
[13:25] <seb128> some of the points raised in those discussions didn't even get mentioned during the session, they are just notes user dumped on the etherpad afterwards that others picked for discussions online
[13:26] <seb128> we should perhaps have a way to "lock" the etherpad after the session
[13:26] <Laney> the 'facts' stated in that plus thread came from someone who was in the session
[13:26] <hyperair> +1 for locking etherpad
[13:26] <Laney> it was pretty obvious to me that the pad was vandalised
[13:26] <seb128> well things like vala or armel didn't get mentioned in the session
[13:26] <hyperair> Laney: which plus thread?
[13:26] <Laney> dnielsen
[13:26] <hyperair> oh that
[13:26] <jbicha> http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.0-status.html
[13:27] <seb128> seems quite some people picked up on the armel state in online comments
[13:27] <Laney> ogra mentioned it in the closing plenary
[13:27] <seb128> which was not something we discussed during the session
[13:27] <seb128> well, nothing to do with the session or decision
[13:27]  * rodrigo_ lucnh
[13:28] <seb128> jbicha, yes? is there anything we should check there?
[13:28] <Laney> anyway, like I've said before and like directhex is trying to say, a UDS session is not the best way to begin such conversations
[13:28] <seb128> jbicha, you probably want http://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.2-status.html
[13:29] <Laney> better would be to raise things between release and uds
[13:29] <seb128> Laney, right, no disagreement on that and it was not planned to be handled this way
[13:29] <Laney> like you did with other topics in fact
[13:29] <seb128> the session got somewhat hijacked with the topic
[13:29] <Laney> it could have been headed off by having discussions before
[13:29] <seb128> Laney, well I honestly didn't plan to discuss the music player at UDS
[13:30] <seb128> it came as a surprise that it was started being discussed during the session
[13:30] <Laney> I believe you, and I didn't think it would come up either otherwise I woul dhave gone
[13:30] <seb128> but lesson learned, next time we will do a call for topics on that session in advance
[13:30] <seb128> then "lock" the agenda
[13:30] <Laney> great
[13:31] <seb128> Laney, note that the decision is not made yet, we had a sort of consensus between people in the session which is a basis but jasoncwarner_ just started the discussion on the ubuntu-desktop list
[13:32] <seb128> the whole topic handling has been poor so far sorry about that
[13:32] <Laney> what made it sound like a decision to me was when pitti announced it
[13:32] <seb128> but there is no thing to turn things into frustration yet
[13:32] <seb128> yeah, the short summary things is suboptimal as well, it's things we will look at, not things which are done deals
[13:33] <jbicha> seb128: no, just that 3.0 finished landed in testing last night
[13:34] <Laney> I still haven't restart my session at work since 3.0 landed :-)
[13:34] <Laney> scared
[13:34] <seb128> jbicha, yeah, I noticed, some blogs from unhappy users today ;-)
[13:35] <seb128> I'm a bit surprised that 3.0 moved that easily to testing
[13:35] <Laney> took quite a while to get transition slots
[13:36] <seb128> right, well it's rather that I'm bit surprised that nobody tried to stop it because GNOME3 was dropping too many features people are using
[13:36] <seb128> or tried to argue that GNOME 3.2 is a bit iteration and rather what should go to testing as the first GNOME3 version
[13:37] <seb128> GNOME 3.0 has some limitations and rough edges
[13:37] <seb128> I would have though that Debian standards would have pushed for extra work happening before GNOME3 would hit testing
[14:51] <mterry> pitti, heyo, got a python-distutils-extra question for ya
[14:51] <pitti> hey mterry
[14:52] <mterry> pitti, I'm porting quickly projects to use PyGI, and when auto.py processes the file, the Gtk import causes a crash because nowadays PyGI's Gtk module apparently requires DISPLAY and will bail if it doesn't see it
[14:52] <pitti> mterry: oh, I thought crashing imports were gracefully handled now
[14:53] <mterry> pitti, yeah, that was one thing I was wondering
[14:53]  * kenvandine is updating to precise
[14:53] <mterry> pitti, does the code not catch RuntimeError ?
[14:54] <pitti>     except RuntimeError: # When Gdk can't be initialized
[14:54] <pitti>         return False
[14:54] <pitti> mterry: it does
[14:54] <pitti> kenvandine: good luck (seems to be tame, though)
[14:55] <mterry> pitti, hmmm, I see that too.  I'll dig into it
[14:55] <pitti> mterry: but I guess it throws up somewhere else, so we should add a test case for this; do you have a sample file which reproduces it?
[14:56] <mterry> pitti, yeah, but it may not be as tiny a test case as it can be yet
[14:58] <mterry> pitti, ah...  the code that does the importing...  when it's a relative port, it doesn't catch Value or Runtime errors.  It only catches those on a regular imoprt
[15:00] <mterry> pitti, lp:~mterry/python-distutils-extra/relative-errors
[15:01] <seb128> btw I've started added notes about things we will update to 3.4 or not to the etherpad
[15:01] <mterry> oh, but I should add a test case to that branch I suppose
[15:01] <seb128> jbicha, ^
[15:04] <pitti> mterry: oh, nice! what's the import statement there, for a test case?
[15:06] <mterry> pitti, in one file, "from . Builder import Builder" and then in Builder.py, "from gi.repository import Gtk" which causes the error.  but for test case, I suppose it could just be "raise RuntimeError"
[15:09] <pitti> mterry: I think I reproduced it
[15:10] <mterry> pitti, nice
[15:10] <pitti> now with the test case it fails differently
[15:14] <mterry> pitti, hm?
[15:17] <pitti> mterry: I'm on it
[15:18] <mterry> pitti, cool.  Once you have it all figured out, I'd appreciate an upload to precise.  This is the last piece of the puzzle for the giant gtk3/pygi/gsettings migration in quickly
[15:18] <mterry> I hate that all of that has to happen at once.  stupid pygi
[15:23] <mterry> pitti, was the other error in python-mkdebian?  I just hit that
[15:24] <pitti> mterry: no, within auto.py
[15:24] <pitti> mterry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/732099/ is what I'm trying
[15:25] <mterry> pitti, after fixing it locally, I ran into it again on line 285 of python-mkdebian
[15:27] <mterry> pitti, I can get by it adding except lines, but then it doesn't notice that it needs to add gir1.2-gtk-3.0
[15:28] <pitti> that was rev 261.1.1, fairly recent
[15:28] <pitti> mterry: I think for gi.repository we should just do string mangling
[15:29] <pitti> at least if it fails to import
[15:29] <pitti> we still need to figure out the version, though, hmm
[15:31] <mterry> pitti, you could find the highest version installed...  Which wouldn't necessarily be the right one if they used gi.require_version...
[15:39] <pitti> mterry: ok, merged with test case, and fixed the followup bug (yay test cases..)
[15:39] <pitti> mterry: I suppose I should hold back the upload until that mkdebian bug is fixed, too?
[15:39] <mterry> pitti, yeah, wouldn't help my use case without that one fixed too
[15:41] <pitti> mterry: hm, merely running mkdebian in apport trunk doesn't reproduce it; it doesn't even pick up Gtk, hmm
[15:41] <pitti>    apt_pkg ... [dpkg -S found more than one extension: python-apt-dbg, python-apt; ignoring] [not found]
[15:41] <pitti> that's another interesting bug, fixing
[15:42] <mterry> hmm
[15:43] <pitti> presumably because gtk/ is not in its standard search path
[15:44] <pitti> oh, of course I should run it without $DISPLAY
[15:44] <pitti> mterry: ^
[15:44] <pitti> mterry: so you actually run quickly not under X?
[15:44] <pitti> that seems rather a corner case to me?
[15:44] <mterry> pitti, the tests run without DISPLAY. normal quickly runs with it
[15:44] <pitti> with DISPLAY it works quite fine
[15:45] <pitti> Searching packages which provide required Python modules:
[15:45] <pitti>    gi.repository.Gtk ... gir1.2-gtk-3.0
[15:45] <mterry> pitti, yeah, it works fine with DISPLAY
[15:45] <pitti> mterry: if that's blocking you, would it be absolutely unthinkable to run the tests through xvfb?
[15:45] <pitti> mterry: I'm sure we can fix this in some better way, but I can't get to this today any more (I'm about to wrap up)
[15:46] <mterry> pitti, sure.  no problem.  I can do hte xvfb thing, it will just require some rejiggering elsewhere
[15:46] <mterry> pitti, thanks!
[15:46] <pitti> mterry: alternatively, would it be enough to fix the crash, or do you need the dependency in the tests?
[15:46] <pitti> mterry: (you could check if gir1.2-glib-2.0 is generated)
[15:47] <mterry> pitti, true that I can set it up so the test doesn't need it.  Certainly fixing the crash would help
[15:51] <pitti> mterry: fixed in bzr
[15:51] <pitti> mterry: want me to upload now?
[15:52] <mterry> pitti, yes please.  thanks!
[15:52] <mterry> pitti, i confirm that my tests will be fine with the crasher fixed
[15:56] <pitti> mterry: uploaded to sid and precise
[16:00] <mterry> didrocks, what are all these foo quickly branches?  Did you get hacked?  ;)
[16:01] <didrocks> mterry: no, sorry, using this one for testing unity tarmac <-> jenkins integration branch, do you get spammed by those? :)
[16:02] <mterry> didrocks, no, just happened to look at the list of branches
[16:02] <mterry> didrocks, because I have a giant merge for review....  just saying...
[16:03]  * didrocks whistles
[16:03] <pitti> godo night everyone!
[16:03] <mterry> pitti, gn!
[16:04] <didrocks> have a good night pitti!
[16:08] <seb128> 'night pitti
[16:21] <rodrigo_> bye pitti
[17:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet? poke, is it fixed yet? ;-)
[17:11] <chrisccoulson> seb128, not yet ;)
[17:12] <chrisccoulson_> did your indicator stay blue?
[17:12] <seb128> lol
[17:12] <seb128> that's a lame thing to do :p
[17:12] <chrisccoulson_> lol
[17:12] <chrisccoulson_> i couldn't resist :)
[17:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson_, the oneiric version of the indicator as a "clear" entry ;-)
[17:12] <seb128> that doesn't clear the counts but the blue
[17:12] <chrisccoulson_> ah, that's not as much fun
[17:12] <hrw> hi
[17:12] <seb128> which is something ;-)
[17:12] <seb128> hey hrw
[17:13] <chrisccoulson_> hrw, you're brave coming in here ;)
[17:13] <hrw> what do I have to install to get unity 3d/2d working (except 'ubuntu-desktop' metapackage)?
[17:13] <chrisccoulson_> i think it's required that everyone in here speaks french now
[17:14] <chrisccoulson_> :-)
[17:14] <hrw> chrisccoulson_: I know
[17:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson_, lol
[17:15] <hrw> I have precise on my desktop, ubuntu-desktop installed, logged to fresh user (empty $HOME) and unity3d does not even start (from lightdm) and unity2d starts without launcher (present: background, top panel with indicators)
[17:15] <hrw> radeon 5450 with opensource driver
[17:15] <chrisccoulson_> ah, i'm not running precise yet
[17:16] <chrisccoulson_> but if there really are things missing, you could try running "sudo apt-get install --fix-policy --install-recommends"
[17:16] <hrw> chrisccoulson_: I have oneiric only on headless machines now
[17:16] <chrisccoulson_> i think that's the magic to install missing recommends. no guarantees that would fix your issue though ;)
[17:16] <seb128> unity should work on precise
[17:16] <chrisccoulson_> what is in ~/.xsession-errors?
[17:16] <seb128> you can probably apt-cache search unity-2d and install the ones listed
[17:17] <hrw> 7 upgraded, 185 newly installed, 19 to remove and 19 not upgraded.
[17:17] <hrw> Need to get 551 MB of archives.
[17:17] <hrw> After this operation, 750 MB of additional disk space will be used.
[17:17] <hrw> will see in few minutes
[17:17] <hrw> then lot of work with debfoster ;(
[17:18] <seb128> well you can read the list and see what has unity in the same
[17:18] <seb128> same->name
[17:18] <hrw> chrisccoulson_: ~/.xsession-errors: http://paste.ubuntu.com/732212/
[17:19] <hrw> k, fetched
[17:20] <chrisccoulson_> hrw, ah, unity-2d-panel aborts with an X error
[17:20] <chrisccoulson_> that's going to be fun to debug :(
[17:21] <seb128> well unity-panel-service is not installed from the log
[17:21] <seb128> not sure if that's enough to break unity-2d-panel
[17:22] <hrw> standard 'lets make it nearly optional (aka: recommended)' way?
[17:22] <chrisccoulson_> not sure. IME, the panel just doesn't do anything if there is no panel service, but it doesn't crash
[17:22] <hrw> is there a way to disable 'run n-th app from launcher' on Meta-n (where n=[0-9])?
[17:23] <chrisccoulson_> i'm not sure. didrocks might be able to answer that
[17:23] <hrw> ccsm has lot of crazy switches ;)
[17:23] <seb128> you can probably remap super
[17:24] <seb128> note that ccsm is for 3d only
[17:24] <didrocks> hrw: it's possible if you change the "super" to reveal launcher
[17:24] <seb128> 2d doesn't use compiz
[17:24] <hrw> seb128: once 3d will start I will play a bit with it
[17:24] <chrisccoulson> i wish we could make ccsm disappear
[17:24] <hrw> relogin...
[17:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, well ccsm is not really an issue by itself, it's only an issue for a class for users who know enough to want to hurt themself, most users will not see it
[17:26] <achiang> how can i turn on ffm? i did a fresh install of oneiric and can't figure it out now. :-/
[17:26] <seb128> but it would be nice we solve enough issues this cycle that users don't feel compelled to get ccsm to tweak things
[17:27] <chrisccoulson> seb128, unfortunately it's too easy for people to shoot themselves in the foot. especially as you need to only press the "Preferences" button in ccsm to destroy your session and lose unity :(
[17:27] <seb128> achiang, it's likely somewhere in gconf
[17:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah..
[17:28] <achiang> also, i can't seem to configure a key to switch workspaces anymore... i used to have this mapped to alt-[1234] but trying that in the preferences doesn't seem to work
[17:28] <hrw> byobu
[17:28] <hrw> ok, rebooted machine and now monitor went to powermode ;(
[17:32] <achiang> seb128: ah, interesting, compiz reads metacity gconf keys?
[17:33] <seb128> achiang, it does for some stuff yes
[17:33] <achiang> got it, thanks
[17:33] <seb128> yw
[17:36] <hrw> ok, unity/3d started
[17:37] <hrw> and first translation bug spotted
[17:37] <achiang> oops, i think i just found the bug chrisccoulson mentioned
[17:37] <achiang> ccsm feels like i'm walking around with a loaded shotgun pointed at my crotch
[17:37] <chrisccoulson> achiang, yeah, that's what i said at UDS ;)
[17:38] <hrw> achiang: but if you want to configure unity desktop you often need it ;(
[17:38] <chrisccoulson> achiang, if you've broken your session, you can remove ~/.config/compiz-1 to fix it
[17:38]  * achiang goes for a reboot
[17:38] <achiang> chrisccoulson: thanks
[17:41] <achiang> chrisccoulson: thanks, that was necessary to get my session back
[17:41]  * achiang vows to never load ccsm again
[17:42] <hrw> ok, time to go - will be back tomorrow
[18:01] <kirkland> hrw: byobu?
[18:04] <jbicha> kirkland: I am trying the byobu-tmux in Precise, the Alt-left/right shortcut overrides the shortcut I'm using in irssi
[18:06] <kirkland> jbicha: append to ~/.byobu/profile.tmux:
[18:06] <kirkland> bind-key -n M-left
[18:06] <kirkland> bind-key -n M-right
[18:06] <kirkland> jbicha: that should clear them
[18:06] <kirkland> jbicha: and just use F3/F4 as usual
[18:06] <kirkland> jbicha: is that something custom you use for irssi, or is that default irssi?
[18:08] <jbicha> kirkland: I'm not sure, I used a guide when I set up irssi
[18:08] <jbicha> do you have documentation for the fancy tmux keyboard shortcuts you showed off in your lightning talk? I don't see the video of that posted yet
[18:09] <kirkland> jbicha: not yet, but that's a great question/todo for me
[18:09] <kirkland> jbicha: I'll knock that out today
[18:09] <kirkland> jbicha: you're welcome to file a bug on that, if you want to make damn sure I do it :-)
[18:09] <jbicha> I'll give you a few days first :)
[18:31]  * didrocks waves good evening
[18:33] <seb128> 'night didrocks
[18:33] <didrocks> good night seb128 :)
[18:53] <CarlFK> trying to keep the "incomplete language support" alert from coming up on a fresh install.  I don't care that it is incomplete.  I don't care if I install what it wants or just prevent it from coming up.
[18:54] <CarlFK> I did apt-get install the packages, but it still wants to show me the "language support" gui
[18:59] <achiang> cyphermox: hey, what version of NM do you plan on moving to for Precise?
[19:06] <achiang> cyphermox: nevermind, my real question was around MM and i found the etherpad notes (0.5 => 0.6)
[22:02] <TheMuso> Ok, since Robert is not around atm, and Chris is off this week, and Jason is ont likely to be around? I wonder whether a meeting is worthwhile.
[22:03] <jbicha> early shift didn't have a meeting
[22:03] <jbicha> there isn't even a wiki page for one
[22:03] <TheMuso> Well that answers that questino, since I didn't even receive a reminder. :)
[22:03] <TheMuso> *question
[22:03] <TheMuso> gah typing
[22:04] <bryceh> TheMuso, ah I even forgot it was Tuesday
[22:05] <bryceh> TheMuso, yeah I seriously doubt we have anything to discuss for one day of work. ;-)
[22:05] <bryceh> TheMuso, I patch piloted yesterday so particularly have nothing newsworthy done
[22:13] <TheMuso> Np, I've not done much since I got back other than catch up on email I ignored last week, mostly bugmail, and did some work items tweakage.