[03:09] [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu: More Than The Default Install - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/08/ubuntu-more-than-the-default-install/ [08:00] Morning all [08:00] \o [08:02] morning [08:03] * AlanBell is in Northampton [08:03] morning AlanBell I thought you would be driving a car right now... [08:03] or rhereabouts [08:03] Ahh [08:29] Morning all [08:31] Is it just me or is commonjs.org not available for anyone? [08:34] o/ [08:45] TheOpenSourcerer: Its down for me [08:45] Thanks DJones - I thought it wasn't just me - been down since last night :-( [08:54] hello all [08:59] Morning MooDoo [09:13] aloha [09:14] moin [09:17] o/ [09:21] Hi [09:22] * daubers fires up banshee [09:22] morning [09:23] Had a thought last night. Is it me, or is UDS becoming a bit cathedral like (based on a lot of blog posts and things I've read recently) [09:23] define cathedral like? lots of bells and singing? [09:23] Protesters camping outside? [09:24] :D [09:24] In the Eric S Raymond sense [09:24] cathedral and the bazaar is a book i doubt most people have read :) [09:24] It's on my list of things I really should read more closely [09:25] daubers: sounds like you should also be firing up a new media player ;) [09:25] daubers: short sighted? [09:26] bigcalm: No, more that a small group of people seem to define big changes with/ [09:26] DJones: I think you might know this... What's the cheapest way to pay an international invoice (Euro). We could use: Bank Transfer, Business Credit Card or PayPal? [09:26] without necessarily having the relevant people who are involved with the decision [09:27] daubers: you are right [09:27] which works fine for a lot of the decisions made [09:27] TheOpenSourcerer: We normally use bank transfer because we pay so many overseas invoices, but that costs about £10 per payment [09:28] AlanBell: Maybe, I just think that more of a fanfair should be made about UDS, and maybe combine it with some kind of big event to help pull in all the upstreams [09:28] TheOpenSourcerer: Credit card I don't think costs any extra, but if its in foreign curency there may be a charge and the receiver normally has something deducted as charges [09:28] I guess it is a collection of transaction fees and exchange rate games... [09:28] We don't use paypal so I can't comment on that [09:28] OK - Thanks. [09:28] So they can lay out their stall and supply more relevant information to the given decision makers [09:29] daubers: err, there is a bit of a fanfair and upstreams are welcome, and often sponsored to attend [09:29] and it is combined with the linaro summit [09:30] however I don't think the default apps decision is very well made at UDS [09:30] it might even have been the right decision, but that is more by luck than judgement [09:32] AlanBell: I don't think I'm in the right position to comment on bansheegate, but UDS seems to lack some simple things, like a master published summary of what was discussed/decisions that where made. It's all relied on peoples blog posts more than anything else [09:33] good morning everyone. [09:35] daubers: true usually there is a better wrap up on the friday [09:37] daubers: it is on the blueprints, which get converted to burndown charts [09:37] mostly decisions are people deciding they are going to do things [09:40] czajkowski: I don't think it would be too hard to task one person in each session as note taker, and have a couple of people collate them at the end of the day [09:40] daubers: as AlanBell says it's on the blueprints tbh [09:40] UDS is fairly busy [09:40] I did well to get a blog post out a day [09:42] Hmmm... their not particularly accessible to the average bod [09:44] no, they are not [09:44] which is why people write accessible blog posts summarising the interesting bits to them! [09:45] would be nice for the track leads to do a daily summary, which is why I wrote code in summit to support doing exactly that, but I am going to remove it because nobody has ever used it [09:45] this server I am sat in front of has 3 CPU cores, which is odd [09:45] I can see it would be nice [09:46] but I don't think track leads could manage it tbh [09:46] given I know how busy UDS is [09:46] AlanBell:AMD? [09:46] daubers: yes [09:46] code in summit? [09:47] quit simple really, on a meeting page like this http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19768/community-p-designing-and-creating-ubuntu-experien/ [09:47] below the pad there is a link to community summary for Monday [09:48] I see [09:48] the theory was that at the end of each session folk could copy and paste note or two about significant decisions arrising [09:48] then the track leads could edit that as they wanted into their daily summary [09:48] but hey, the idea didn't catch on [09:49] Could it not be automated (the first step anyway) by catching some form of markup from the main body of the text? [09:51] that is a plausible feature, that bit is going to be rewritten using etherpad lite rather than etherpad for UDS Q [09:51] might well have some way to do that, good suggestion [09:59] join #goneonical [10:04] bah, having an unproductive morning [10:04] Considering rearranging my desk [10:06] Ummm, should the /topic be updated? [10:09] Too slow doing that :) === AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting 10th November 21:00 UK time #ubuntu-uk-meeting | Cake \o/ [10:10] :) T [10:10] Ta [10:13] daubers: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-summit-etherpad-lite added your suggestion [10:18] Good morning all! :D [10:19] AlanBell: Ooh, ta [10:26] etherpad lite is a different bucket of fail to etherpad [10:33] yeah [10:33] we think it is a more fixable bucket of fail [10:33] directhex: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda that is where to add an item about the default app selection process [10:34] directhex: do you have a non faily pad suggestion? [10:34] AlanBell, sadly not. [10:48] * daubers is tempted to go postal and annihalate all the sales people next doo [10:48] r [10:54] how does XFCE do compositing? [10:55] experience a bug 753144 bug with unity, but not with xfce, however xfce seems to have 3D enabled (not compiz though) [10:55] Launchpad bug 753144 in compiz (Ubuntu) "focused, or maximized windows blank" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/753144 [11:13] oimon1: yes it does do compositing [11:14] Myrtti: yes, seems so , cos docky works OK with it. not suffering the same bug though [11:14] i've had such bad experience with 11.04 and 11.10 :( [11:19] INteresting read http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/08/ubuntu_on_trial/ [11:24] DJones: didn't they write this article a few weeks ago too? [11:25] oimon1: Probably, pretty much every time a new release comes out they write something about users not being happy with changes [11:25] el reg have a "unique" style of journalism [11:26] which makes their articles very incoherent [11:28] unique is one way of describing it [11:30] At times it has some well written & researched reports, and yet other reports are sensasionalised more than the news of the world would [11:37] haha Liam is a bit bitter [11:39] there's never any flow to the articles, just a bunch of links and disjointed text [11:40] It *is* a tabloid [11:41] I didn't read anything "bitter" in that article. In fact he said he rather liked Unity. He seemed to me to be quite comprehensively discussing the history, why we are here and what choices one has. [11:42] "Some people, your humble scribe included, rather like Unity's new look." [11:43] i like the look, i just try and fail at using it [11:43] * TheOpenSourcerer is still on 10.10 [11:43] i'm having one of those weeks - new computer on the desk, and tried 11.10 but not sure whether to roll back to 10.04 [11:44] I made it to 11.10 ths weekend, finally, but moved to XFCE when I did that (from KDE) [11:44] It's all GNOME's fault for developing something new ;-) [11:44] I still don't understand the problem that Gnome3 solves [11:44] lornajane: turning out all tight for you? [11:45] s/right :) [11:45] It seems that they waited almost exactly until Gnome2 was decently configurable, and then replaced it with something that isn't :/ [11:45] Hey BigRedS That sounds a bit like Windows XP to Vista. [11:46] MooDoo: so far it's pretty good, nothing getting in my way [11:46] lornajane: awesome :) [11:46] I don't use a pointing device so the "new features" in window managers are mostly useless and just waste system resources [11:46] right now I'm running four sets of tabbed konsole, opera and skype. I really don't need much in the graphical space [11:47] on xfce right now [11:47] i'll probbly get used to it, but been using gnome2 quite a while now and i like it [11:49] I'm trying to bond with having the bar at the top. We'll see how that works out. So far, everything else just works as I expect and the window manager is not in the way [11:49] why did you move away from kde? [11:50] because it doesn't remember configuration between sessions? [11:51] GAH! [11:51] * daubers starts looking at jobs [11:51] I had zero problems with KDE, used it for 10 years and liked it - but I just don't want or need anything so fully featured [11:51] lxde is slightly closer to KDE than xfce IMO [11:52] I run fluxbox on the netbook (which is wildly underpowered) and like it, so I looked around and thought I'd try XFCE as an alternative somewhere between the two [11:52] oimon1: someone else recommended lxde to me on twitter, I might take a look at that too sometime [11:52] knoppix uses it now [11:53] I tried to see the point in lxde. It felt exactly like openbox but with a whole new way of configuring it which didn't seem particularly easier or more reliable than hand-editing XML [11:53] I keep meaning to try lubuntu to see how well that works on some older hardware I've got sat round [11:54] lxde has a start menu, openbox didn't last time i looked [11:54] yeah, it's openbox + panel [11:54] and the [11:55] usual collection of bits and pieces [11:55] realised that my sound card is futzing out when i do other stuff on the PC [11:55] :( [11:55] I mean, i can see the point as an openbox distro or something, but it's no less disjointed than doing it yourself and not a lot less effort [11:56] BigRedS: i used it on my eee pc for a while, seemed quite effortless [11:56] although i didn't try to change anything [11:56] maybe I've just forgotten how much effort I put into OB... [11:59] should update manager install updates without asking for password? [11:59] it seems to [12:00] yeah [12:00] if you're a sudoer IIRC [12:02] ah [12:02] oimon1: Yeah, does that for me === dipl0 is now known as diplo [12:03] A bit of a shock to the system when you're used to being asked for a password, first couple of times it did it, I was thinking I'd gone senile & forgotten I'd entered the password [12:08] It's almost lunch time :D [12:08] * TheOpenSourcerer just had TWO digestive biscuits. [12:08] * brobostigon has salt a vinegar crisps, and chicken sandwiches. [12:10] * MooDoo isn't sure what to have, maybe ubuntu with a side order of "huzzah" [12:10] * MooDoo has flipped today [12:10] I will probably have a cheesy sandwich with a good dollop of extra-hot home-made chilli chutney :D [12:10] * popey had marmite on toast [12:12] * MooDoo moves away from stinky popey [12:17] lornajane: did you use lubuntu or just regular ubuntu and installed lxde? [12:18] * tonytiger notes an e-mail from popey getting cited in an El Reg article: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/08/ubuntu_on_trial/page2.html [12:18] haha, the sounder list :) [12:19] happy days [12:19] MooDoo: I didn't try LXDE yet. This was just an upgrade to existing kubuntu and I installed xfce as well [12:20] lornajane: sorry that was me reading your posts wrong i meant xfce lol [12:21] MooDoo: on this laptop, I didn't try xubuntu but I am building a VM to distribute for some courses I'm teaching, and that will be straight xubuntu [12:21] I'm kinda here in case I need technical support :) [12:23] lornajane: o/ [12:24] lornajane: php dev right? [12:25] hello tonytiger :) [12:25] MooDoo: right! [12:25] lornajane: ignore that, of course we know who you are :) [12:27] don't tell me that, I'll get exaggerated ideas of my own importance [12:28] * popey waves at lornajane [12:28] lornajane: sorry, i just happen to read your blog on your site :) [12:29] hey popey, how's it going? [12:29] great thanks :D [12:30] MooDoo: don't apologise :) I love my blog, it brings new and interesting people into my life [12:30] :D [12:32] back when i had a blog, i just met lots of new and interesting people that wanted to sell me pills or diploma's :( [12:33] gord: i need to just update mine :D lol [12:35] gord: mine is interesting. I knew that the new ubuntu upgrade would cause issues with gearman before I did it, because I had blog comments on my post about ubuntu and gearman telling me that [12:36] so I stopped my sysadmin from upgrading the production system before I did my dev system (which we should do anyway but ubuntu pretty much works so we don't always) [12:36] and sure enough, I have issues [12:36] oh i like that "my sysadmin" :) lol [12:40] MooDoo: that would be the sysadmin and seriously long term partner in my life, who taught me to code in the first place [12:42] lornajane: groovy, coding rocks....now what's php again :) [12:50] monster munch is BOGOF...i feel i can justify eating 2 packs at lunch [12:51] We've had 14-pack bags of those disappear in a number of hours ehre [12:52] Hi, I have lost my desktop, it wont load when you start the laptop up. Its a lanovo 550 pentium 11.10 preinstalled.....I just had a freeze, restarted and the desktop went, I went into Ctrl+Alt+F2, and ran the command unity ---resetand got the message 'Warning: no DISPLAY variable set, setting it to :0 unity-panel-service: no process found.......anybody know how I can get around that [12:52] oimon1: they are not the same as when i was a kid, a lot smaller now boooo [12:52] oimon1: which shop from? :) [12:53] sainsbury [12:53] 14-packs [12:53] Looks like I'll to sainsbury's on the way home... and hide some packs in the office to stop them vanishing too fast ;) [12:53] s/to/go to/ [12:53] ribena's half price atm too i think [12:54] frazzles ribena and monster munch made me the man i am today [12:54] dell or thinkpad laptop any ideas? [12:55] hippychick: thinkpad! I love mine and am looking at getting another one - my boyfriend has one too now [12:55] hippychick: in my experience the dells usually have a bit more power, where as the thinkpads are much more robust [12:55] I had a thinkpad when I was a kid dropped it like 4 times and it still worked after :D [12:56] i keep trying to get my daughter to hold my laptop but she won't for some reason, no new laptop for me.....[she's 7 weeks] [12:56] hee hee [12:56] this thinkpad is 3 years old, it's a hand-me-down, and I run a business off it. They are quite literally indestructible [12:56] ^ that's typical of thinkpads :D [12:56] they are both good choices IMO. [12:56] depends on budget too [12:56] does anybody have any ideas? [12:56] yea, depends on what you want really :) [12:57] hmm, sounds good, my dell has lasted just over a year :/ i had an asus before that which lastest a year and a half so i want somthing abit more longer lasting [12:57] which dell model hippychick? [12:57] then yea go for the thinkpad, they are built like tanks [12:57] studio 1749 [12:57] My Dell lasted 10 years :) [12:58] my dell latitude d630 hinge broke 1 day before the 3yr support ran out , and i had a streak of dead pixels, but generally i find [12:58] ..that they should last a few years at least! [12:59] * oimon1 wonders if hippychick works on a building site [12:59] well it wouldnt detect the power supply anymore and the screen was warped, i tried some diy laptop repair and fried the motherboard [12:59] oimon1: I've had problems with multiple d6xx and screen hinges \o/ [12:59] although it's largely because my brother likes to carry them around dangling by the screen [12:59] agh [13:00] well im presuming i fried the motherboard, Oly said i didnt do anythign which would have caused it though..... [13:01] i don't allow my users to purchase laptops with company money without buying 3yr support [13:02] Age old question... Ubuntu LTS or Debian for a virtual server? Any opinions? [13:03] I use the latest Ubuntu for my dedi server and have no problem [13:03] popey: The missus just stumbled on you through google when she was looking for some SAP stuff [13:03] LTS is to do with large hardware deployments where it'd be difficult to upgrade, on a single server it's not that difficult to press the upgrade button. [13:03] i used to use debian until LTS came along. now my servers are a mixture of centos and ubuntu LTS [13:04] Azelphur: s/difficult/unecesary/ [13:05] I've always used LTS in the past myself, and was wondering if I would get more stability/security from Debian if I'm only going to run bind and postfix [13:05] from a technical standpoint debian is probably more stable as it's more minimal than ubuntu [13:05] in practice, probably no difference as neither will crash for years [13:06] heh! - Yeah - I'll be long gone than ;) [13:06] 08:01:44 up 132 days, 17:16, 0 users, load average: 0.59, 0.61, 0.84 [13:06] My server, which is currently on 11.04, need to upgrade it :) [13:06] I suppose that one might be better then the other, but the difference in this case is infinitessimal? [13:06] It's been upgraded from 10.10 [13:06] in terms of stability, yes. [13:07] security? As it's a DNS server? [13:08] btw tsco tell me i have £91 of vouchers..can i get them to resend them? [13:08] I don't know shit about DNS servers, but it's highly likely that there's little to no difference again [13:08] no doubt they probably use the same software, perhaps even the same packages [13:08] Ok, thanks for the comments ;) [13:10] new gmail is hard to read :( [13:11] oimon1: I've not looked at that, I always use thunderbird [13:12] Just logged in, I have a button "Switch to new look" [13:17] any nvidia users in here? i can't suspend/resume with nvidia drivers :( [13:17] I'm nvidia but I never use suspend/resume [13:25] daubers: unlucky [13:36] toni 1 laptop 0 :D fixed the laptop :D [13:37] woo \o/ [13:38] and it looks like my charging problem has been fixed.... [13:40] right, time to back everything up [13:40] is tmux any good? [13:42] popey: It was something saying how pleased you where about leaving SAP behind [13:42] also, has anybody read Head First Java? Is it any good? [13:43] haha [13:43] really? [13:43] popey: Yup [13:43] probably a log of this irc channel :D [13:43] heh [13:46] this is interesting. how do you tell a customer their contract expired 46 minutes ago =x [13:46] shauno: hi x your contract expired 46 mins ago [13:46] ;) [13:46] "If you want this information you need to pay us x a month as your contract expired while I was having a coffee" [13:47] shauno: are you the owner of the business? [13:47] nah [13:47] shauno: do it nicely then ;) [13:48] I'm pretty much pretending it's still yesterday, service-wise. but trying to find a way to drop it into convo that doesn't make me sound like a salesman [13:48] Right, I've got three servers going into a datacenter to do a couple of jobs. Should I build them as a cloudy thing, or just taask each one with a task. Is three machines enough for a cloudy type thing [13:48] I figure I can claim innocence because the customer is in AU. so I'm in their yesterday [13:48] daubers: well first of all stop saying cloudy type thing :) [13:48] shauno: "If you found this helpful you might want to renew your support" [13:48] daubers: how important is it that they work? [13:49] BigRedS: Quite important, one is being tasked as a hot failover [13:49] then it's probably best to stick with whichever you know best :) [14:09] [Jonathan Riddell] What I Did on my Rotation - http://blogs.kde.org/node/4500 === dipl0 is now known as diplo === 13WAARLRD is now known as SWAT [15:32] Whose turn is it to make the coffee? [15:33] tumbleweed... [15:34] thumb twiddliing [15:34] whistling to himself [15:34] that bored eh? [15:35] No - I was ignoring daubers [15:39] i'm pretty sure whoever asks who's turn it is, is the turn-e [15:40] I had a pizza for lunch that made me sweat. I like a bit of spice, but that was uncomfortable. Still ate it though [15:40] gord: unless it's asked loudly enough at one person in a group, hinting that they haven't made a cuppa for others for ages [15:43] Don't like the new g+ favicon.ico for some reason [15:49] I would, but I've been fixing boxes in Denmark all day after stupid salespeople said things to customers they shouldn't have [15:50] [15:54] heh, I just had a cuppa turn up on my desk if that helps daubers [15:54] :) [15:54] * daubers mumbles incoherently [15:55] * DJones makes a cup of spiced apple tea [15:55] yum [15:55] * Oli mumbles off to make himself an espresso [15:56] * daubers checks the data disclaimer and wipes 32TB of data [15:57] wow [15:58] daubers: not take you long ;) [16:04] MooDoo: mkfs is a wonderful thing in the wrong hands [16:06] For anybody thinking about getting a rasberry pi http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/312 [16:10] one of the fans on one of my bitcoin nodes 5870's failed :( [16:10] "fixed" it :D http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/November%202011/IMG_20111108_160010.jpg [16:10] DJones: they've launched sales? [16:11] Looks like pre-orders on the official site [16:11] I'm guessing that because their database has crumbled. [16:11] But seems like there's fake sites appearing [16:12] Oh okay - so they haven't started taking order yet (that I can see) [16:13] Azelphur: That doesn't look very safe [16:13] pfft, safety [16:38] looks fine to me [16:51] if (lobster->condimentAdded=='ketchup'){ head.explode();} === gmb is now known as graham [16:53] ping Laney === graham is now known as gmb === zz_Lcawte is now known as lcawte === lcawte is now known as Lcawte [17:11] daubers: are you going mad? === chrisccoulson is now known as chrisccoulson_ === Victoria123 is now known as Vic_kole === chrisccoulson_ is now known as chrisccoulson === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [17:47] can you get cheapo pci(e?) sata cards, purely for the purposes of adding more hdds to a machine that only has 2 sata ports? [17:48] yes [17:48] any recommendations? :) [17:48] Any SATA-600 PCI(e) card will do I guess:) [17:49] PCIe is potentially faster [17:51] http://www.scan.co.uk/products/lycom-pe-103-x2-port-sataii-3gbps-pci-e-controller-card-with-ncq-pc-mac-linux guess I'll grab this :) [17:51] oh wait, I don't even have a PCI-E slot free haha [17:51] that's SATA-300 [17:52] *shrug* [17:52] perhaps a new motherboard is in order \o/ [17:52] Azelphur: you don't want fast disks, just disks? [17:52] yea, it's literally just for movie storage [17:59] * ball wants disks too. [18:00] ...and pie. [18:04] ball: filelight can make pie-charts of disk usage... ;) [18:06] Hi all [18:06] \o safiyyah [18:06] not here with a problem [18:06] just came to sit :) [18:10] safiyyah: podcast is live in just over 2 hours [18:10] over in #ubuntu-uk-podcast [18:10] okay will pop in [18:10] lol [18:11] second time I came into the room just to sit..... my life is going to pot for sure [18:25] anyone getting loads of bad certificate dialogues for oracle in thunderbird? [18:34] linux mint is above ubuntu on distrowatch last 6 months of stats, and consider ubuntu just had a release and linuxmint didn't, perhaps it suggests ubuntu does not deliver in the desktop what many users want. enough to make canonical sit up and listen? i would think not [18:34] also what linux mint are doing with next release, sounds far more towards "listening to users" than ubuntu - http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1851 [19:43] pidgin still isn't creating a new window when first launched on my oneiric instance [19:43] * jacobw will investigate and file bug if necessary [19:56] buzz_: or people just don't use distrowatch to download Ubuntu all that much? [19:56] I forget it exists until someone makes a big thing about Ubuntu not being on top every few months, and then I remember for half an hour and get back to using search engines to find things [19:57] firstly, distrowatch doesn't count number of downloads [19:57] secondly, ubuntu has been at the top of the list for the paste 3 years [19:58] What is distrowatch's ranking? I thought it counted click-throughs to the mirrors? [19:58] distrowatch is irrelevant [19:58] well, yeah [19:58] sure, keep acting like there isn't a problem [19:58] keep repeating it long enough and it will become true [20:00] could someone please do the euro sign [20:00] :. [20:00] cannot get it to work on laptop [20:00] € [20:00] jacobw: thanks [20:01] haha [20:01] alt-gr+$? [20:01] wikipedia's invaluable for those things. That's where all my sarcastic TMs come from [20:01] € [20:01] hah [20:01] cheers [20:01] it was 3 [20:01] BigRedS: brat [20:03] what? [20:03] i think she called you a brat [20:03] * BigRedS grumbles [20:03] you laughed [20:04] I'm generally laughing, though [20:04] I can't help it if you happen to have some misfortune nearby [20:04] :) [20:11] !packaging [20:11] The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports [20:11] o/ SuprEngr [20:11] o/ jacobw [20:12] just got in - panic mode - podcast ;) [20:15] 14 minutes to go :p [20:16] ali1234, yes but thats my point it isnt top for the last 6months, the trend seems to show it losing ground to other distros (even ubuntu based ones) [20:16] But it's only losing ground on whatever metric it is that distrowatch measures [20:17] BigRedS: charming :) [20:17] [[enjoying the gentlepodcast music after a day full of scheiss till then] [20:18] Distrowatch hasn't known about any distro that I've downloaded or installed in the past 8 years or so [20:18] well. i think it has some significance [20:19] BigRedS, so what ? :) [20:19] not sure i follow your point whatever that may be.. [20:20] like i said, distrowatch doesn't count downloads or installs [20:20] buzz_: I suspect I'm not in the minority, and so distrowatch represents distrowatch users better than it does linux users [20:20] if they havnt covered any distro you have used, i suspect you are in the minority [20:20] distrowatch represents linux users rather well [20:20] it doesn't doesn't really represent ubuntu users however [20:20] what does it measure? [20:21] it measures page hits afaik [20:21] ali1234, i can agree with that, but im not sure that nullifies the trend though [20:21] not completely [20:22] see distrowatch is not just a list of ISOs you can download [20:22] they maintain a database of which database uses which package [20:23] so what we can infer from this trend [20:23] you could argue that linux mint users are using ubuntu anyway but ;-) and that ubuntu users are using debian too heh [20:23] is that people who know other distros exist, and take an interest in comparing them, are leaving ubuntu [20:23] for example [20:24] but they are going to mint, which is just ubuntu but with a sensible desktop [20:24] it seems to.. at least more so than others [20:24] so that tells us those people like everything about ubuntu except for unity [20:24] actually it doesn't tell us that [20:25] it tells us that people are most interested about mint [20:25] not that they are actually switching [20:25] im certainly interested to see what linux mint can do with gnome3 and if they can keep gnome2 as an option.. i think that's what users want. the choice. [20:26] there is no more choice than there ever was [20:27] there is less choice [20:27] ali1234: I think the suggestion is that there's now less :) [20:27] there used to be the choice to use or not to use unity on ubuntu.. ok there is if you ditch gnome but [20:27] * buzz_ runs xfce currently === gerry_ is now known as easytiger [20:28] having just put together an oneiric image for the o2 joggler, i can tell you that the classic gnome interface was much more usable, on the touchscreen [20:28] buzz_, gnome shell works well with touchscreens [20:29] does it? It seems to love keyboards [20:29] ubuntubhoy, ive not tried it yet, but i will give it a spin, should it work on the gpu / drivers [20:29] * jacobw loves keyboards [20:29]