[00:58] <ScottL> new blog post:  http://dullass.blogspot.com/2011/11/uds-p-day-4-and-5-or-efficacy-is-eight.html
[00:58] <ScottL> get's kinda weird, but oh well
[03:57] <len> The Oneiric Ocelot link leads to Precise Pangolin. Is there anything on there worthtesting yet?
[03:58] <len> Should I download it? The mailing list seems to say there are some uninstallable things on it, but are there other things that need testing?
[03:59] <holstein> len: hey
[03:59] <holstein> im looking at dual head
[03:59] <holstein> i was probably just going to install xubuntu for now
[04:00] <len> So I should download install and try dual head? Xubuntu has the same stuff?
[04:01] <len> I can test dual head on my netbook easy, but the desktop would be much harder.
[04:02] <holstein> len: well, its not so much testing it
[04:02] <holstein> but seeing what works, and how
[04:03] <holstein> im looking at arandr right now
[04:03] <holstein> the included tool does mirroring or cloning
[04:03] <holstein> whatever you call it
[04:03] <holstein> to do spanning, i needed another tool
[04:03] <holstein> tried grandr
[04:05] <len> So hardware is not the issue so much as software right now.
[04:05] <holstein> eh
[04:05] <holstein> depends
[04:05] <holstein> len: you have anything USB 3?
[04:05] <holstein> that would be nice
[04:05] <holstein> i have firewire
[04:05] <holstein> and some USB gear
[04:06] <holstein> len: we need to see how JACK is working with the -generic kernel for folks
[04:06] <len> I have mostly old stuff and cheaper stuff. I have a family to feed
[04:06] <holstein> and different hardware cases
[04:06] <holstein> len: thats fine
[04:06] <holstein> even if its old internals
[04:06] <holstein> thats still a test case
[04:06] <holstein> len: welcome, by the way :)
[04:06] <holstein> \o/
[04:06] <len> I have a d66
[04:07] <len> Thanks
[04:07] <holstein> are you from the mailing list?
[04:07] <len> Ja
[04:08] <holstein> len: COOL
[04:08] <holstein> let me re-read your email
[04:08] <holstein> ive been meaning to reply to that
[04:09] <holstein> len: awesome
[04:09] <holstein> i was going to go for http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/
[04:09] <holstein> as soon as i have a minute
[04:09] <holstein> len: not on anything mission critical of course
[04:09] <len> How is that the same/different from US?
[04:09] <holstein> really, just installing that and some studio stuff, and just trying things right now
[04:10] <holstein> len: we are using XFCE now
[04:10] <holstein> you can try our dailies... not sure
[04:10] <holstein> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntustudio/daily/current/
[04:10] <len> So US is some extra pkgs on top? or are there other things
[04:11] <holstein> there will be other things for sure
[04:11] <len> I think I will try downloading it and see.
[04:11] <holstein> but, not too different from xubuntu really
[04:11] <holstein> its all the same repos anyways
[04:11] <holstein> its all just buntu :)
[04:12] <len> Not unity though
[04:12] <holstein> well, unity is in the repos
[04:12] <holstein> so, i you install ubuntustudio, and want it, you can have it
[04:12] <holstein> same for all the derivitives
[04:12] <holstein> we all use the same repositories
[04:12] <len> No thanks... it messes to much with other sessions.
[04:13] <len> I had it and saved my directory and wiped my system to get rid of it
[04:13] <holstein> hehe
[04:13] <holstein> im not a fan either
[04:13] <len> My netbook is now xubutu 11.10
[04:13] <holstein> im enjoing XFCE
[04:14] <holstein> ive been in it for about a week now
[04:14] <holstein> full time
[04:14] <holstein> on my netbook
[04:14] <holstein> same as you... 11.10
[04:14] <holstein> otherwise, i have 10.04 on everything else
[04:14] <len> I think I have US 11.04 on my desktop
[04:15] <holstein> len: you using the stock generic kernel?
[04:15] <len> No, I put in the lowlat.
[04:15] <holstein> did you try it against the other one?
[04:16] <holstein> gen vs lowlat?
[04:16] <len> Not any bench mark just seems less trouble
[04:16] <holstein> xrun wise?
[04:16] <holstein> or support for hardware somehow?
[04:17] <len> I am more a stage player, don't do so much recording so not as much real testing as I would like
[04:17] <holstein> len: cool
[04:17] <holstein> what do you play?
[04:17] <len> crashed less.... may have been the version of ardour/jack I was trying ardour 3
[04:18] <len> I am playing bass right now, but I fill what is missing. I also play guitar or drums though drums has been a long time.
[04:19] <len>  Did some Christmas songs (already) over at the hospital with my YF on guitar.
[04:20] <holstein> cool
[04:20]  * holstein plays bass
[04:20] <holstein> upright bass
[04:21] <len> Can't aford onr :-) Im using fretless right now... ripped out the frets and filled them in.. lowered the nut
[04:22] <holstein> nice
[04:22] <holstein> i got a j bass recently and put a warmoth neck on it
[04:22] <holstein> dont like playing electric bass though
[04:22] <holstein> i played a gig on it while my bass was in the shop
[04:22] <holstein> its nice.. but...
[04:23] <len> This was a (badly ) used squire from rentals... Its my test bass. I have an old pre 76 Rick I use too.
[04:24] <holstein> nice
[04:25] <len> I go from chord charts... don't read music fast enough
[04:26] <holstein> eh... im not the quickest sight-reader either
[04:27] <len> Ok downloading the latest US now. I'l play on both my cpmuters withit... don't type so well either.
[04:27] <holstein> len: hehe
[04:27] <holstein> i think you're doing great :)
[04:27] <holstein> programming background too eh?
[04:27] <holstein> thats awesome
[04:28] <len> Its going to take a while... says about 2 hours... I'll be gone by then
[04:28] <holstein> gone?
[04:28] <holstein> from here you mean?
[04:28] <len> It has been a while since I did much programing
[04:28] <len>  gone to bed
[04:28] <holstein> OH
[04:29] <len> I used to run a BBS before Inet
[04:29] <holstein> cool
[04:29] <holstein> i read about that
[04:29] <holstein> thought about setting one up
[04:30] <len> I was alone and worked evening. it was one way i had some social life
[04:45] <len> Programing stand alone stuff is ok.  Redid login to allow setting new users up... grab some info sort of thing. Have done some tcl/tk stuff at work... 
[04:45] <holstein> well, im glad you made it here
[04:45] <len> I have not done packaging though
[04:45] <holstein> i was going to follow up with you on the list and invite you here
[04:47] <len> Wish I had more time to spend on it, but testing will probably be most of what I can do
[04:47] <holstein> len: thats great
[04:47] <holstein> sounds like you have a very appropriate batch of hardware
[04:48] <len> Glad to help. 
[04:48] <len> I should get going... bye now
[04:48] <holstein> len: o/
[14:21] <scott-work> TheMuso:  didn't you tell me that something funny was going on with the ia32-libs package?
[14:45] <scott-work> TheMuso: nevermind, i got an answer in -motu and have a link to stevel's email about it (but i'll have to digest it later)
[14:46] <astraljava> scott-work: When you mentioned the meetingology usage; last night in the xubuntu-devel meeting, knome really showed the proper way to utilize it's properties.
[14:47] <astraljava> scott-work: The #info command is real efficient in the minutes portion of the log. That way you get a quick glimpse of what the talk was about, without having to browse through the whole file.
[14:48] <astraljava> That bundled together with #action and #agree will give you everything you need, unless you really wanna see everything that was typed.
[14:48] <scott-work> astraljava:  is there a good place to learn the commands, the link i found (or you provided, don't remember) wasn't really thorough
[14:49] <astraljava> scott-work: Maybe there is, but I just copied them to a notes entry, the bot presents them at the start of each meeting.
[14:50] <astraljava> scott-work: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot
[14:50] <astraljava> Don't know if that's up-to-date, though.
[14:51] <scott-work> astraljava: thanks!  i put in the last meeting ntoes that i would chair the next meeting
[14:52] <scott-work> but perhaps if we switch to a euro friendly time then perhaps i may not be able to if i am unable to attend
[14:52] <holstein> i got a brunch gig :/
[14:52] <holstein> puts me out of the current time
[14:52] <holstein> not every sunday though
[14:53] <holstein> not that we gotta rearrange the meetings for me
[14:53] <holstein> i can catch up
[14:53] <astraljava> Yeah, I have no problems chairing whenever I can attend, which should be almost everytime, though.
[14:54] <astraljava> But do take your turns whenever you feel like it.
[14:54] <astraljava> Someone's gotta have the experience too.
[14:56] <holstein> well, it can be a drag for the chair-person
[14:56] <holstein> i appreciate you covering it for us astraljava :)
[14:57] <scott-work> astraljava: i think we should defintely each get turns just so we don't fall apart when the normal chair isn't there
[14:57] <astraljava> I don't mind. And since Scott's presenting most of the issues, it helps to ease his load a bit.
[14:57] <scott-work> maybe not necessarily switch every time, but we should each get experience
[14:57] <astraljava> Yeah, agreed.
[14:57] <scott-work> astraljava: aye!  it really does
[14:57] <scott-work> ^^^ help to distribute the load
[14:58] <astraljava> You get a bit of time to type what you have to say on the topic, while someone else is typing the mandatory commands etc.
[14:58] <astraljava> I need to look into the voting, next.
[14:59] <astraljava> I see it's quite an efficient way to handle a lot of things, witnessed in the council meetings and such, when they're voting on upload privileges etc.
[17:32] <knome> scott-work, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
[17:33] <knome> scott-work, *anybody* can use #info, so you don't have to duplicate stuff
[17:34] <knome> scott-work, our minutes from yesterday are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2011-11-08, if you want to see how that looks (it's slightly modified from the raw output, but i've been talking with AlanBell to push some changes to the bot soon, so we can get a hassle-free copy+paste from the output. i've also filed a bug about the wiki producin margin for list items that have <a>, <em> or <strong>)
[17:35] <scott-work> oh cool
[17:54] <scott-work> working with kate steward (the release manager) on the blueprints
[17:54] <scott-work> here is what i call the ubuntu studio "header" blueprint:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/topic-precise-flavor-ubuntu-studio
[17:54] <scott-work> this allows her to track the progress of our blueprints
[17:55] <scott-work> if you look on the bottom of _that_ blueprint in the 'dependencies' area you will see our blueprints attached, and you can click them to go to their respetive blueprint pages
[17:55] <knome> scott-work, is this something the official flavors are required to do?
[17:55] <knome> scott-work, btw, the LTS cycle length problem is something ubuntu studio and xubuntu have in common
[17:56] <knome> scott-work, xfce can't really be supported for five years, until you have a large amount of people who are willing to push fixes to xfce after the xfce devs have dropped the support
[17:56] <scott-work> knome: not sure exactly, but i think the official derivatives are encouraged to do it
[17:57] <scott-work> knome: oh, and i see what you mean about LTS for this
[17:57] <knome> yeah, we need to look at those requirements and stuff this week, and maybe decide about it on our next meeting
[17:57] <scott-work> hmmm, that is something to ponder i suppose
[17:57] <scott-work> is it possible to upgrade xfce during this time by backporting it?
[17:57] <knome> you should really have a chat with mr_pouit
[17:58] <scott-work> is he going to yell at me about backporting it ;)
[17:58] <knome> he's going to tell what's possible and what not
[17:58] <knome> we don't believe we can do the 5-year LTS cycle.
[17:58] <knome> that's mostly because of xfce
[17:58] <knome> the current cycle is okayish
[18:02] <scott-work> knome: jono asked me directly about supporting ubuntu studio for five years, i said i thought we could do it
[18:02] <scott-work> perhaps i was in error
[18:02] <knome> lol
[18:02] <knome> that was his IIIVÖL plan
[18:02] <scott-work> perhaps we should also talk to kate or steve l about this
[18:02] <knome> you probably can, but xfce is not supported...
[18:02] <scott-work> what is IIIVOL?
[18:02] <knome> IIVÖL == EVIL
[18:03] <scott-work> ahhhhhh...other's probably agree with you on that
[18:03] <scott-work> :P
[18:03] <scott-work> gonig to lunch
[18:03] <knome> bon appeitt
[18:03] <knome> ugh
[18:03] <knome> *appetit
[18:03] <scott-work> oh, knome you might want to talk to kate steward (skaet in irc) about the blueprint stuff
[18:04] <knome> okay
[18:04] <scott-work> i imagine charlie knows about it but i have a vivid imagination :P
[18:04] <knome> hehe
[18:04] <knome> he probably does, we need to sit down for some time together
[18:04] <knome> i'm hoping i can push the work of release manager to somebody else :PP
[18:04] <astraljava> Scott! You did WHAT?!
[18:04] <knome> astraljava, those americans.
[18:05] <astraljava> Bloody h*ll.
[18:05] <knome> i'm sure you can revert that comment
[18:05] <knome> if you promise to blog how awesome jono is everyday for the next 5 years
[18:06] <astraljava> Haha!
[19:56] <scott-work> back
[20:42] <TheMuso> scott-work: Ah yes, multi-arch.
[20:43] <scott-work> TheMuso: another question if you don't mind, how could we implement sane defaults for jack settings?
[20:43] <scott-work> which package do you think we would need to touch for this?
[20:43] <scott-work> -settings?
[20:43] <scott-work> the jackd package?
[20:44] <scott-work> would this be a delta against the debian package?
[20:44] <astraljava> No, let's not touch that, so we can just sync straight from unstable.
[20:50] <scott-work> i would prefer not to create a delta uneccessarily, astraljava , but i would like to solicit input from others to make sure we are doing it the 'right' way
[20:50] <scott-work> not to disrepect you, astraljava 
[20:51] <astraljava> No worries. That's just my opinion.
[20:51] <scott-work> although another approach might be to talk to quadrispro and see if they would consider a change as well ;)
[20:52] <astraljava> That sounds good, sure.
[20:53] <scott-work> i met quadrispro at uds, i was surprised to do so
[20:54] <astraljava> Hmm... right. He's active, so I'm not sure whether I was expecting that, but it sure didn't surprise me one bit.
[20:55] <scott-work> i had no idea he would be there, but then i was very ignorant about many topics pertaining to uds as well
[20:56] <astraljava> It's a potpourri for sure.
[20:56] <scott-work> he very passionately told me that we should remove pulse audio because it was adversely impacting jack's latency
[20:56] <scott-work> i explained that it would exceedingly difficult to manage such a feat
[20:57] <scott-work> perhaps requiring shifting to a different desktop environment
[20:57] <astraljava> Yeah, I'm on a fence about that.
[21:00] <astraljava> I mean,  I don't particularly like it, but I would want a better UX for audio, and it's got potential, so I have no beef with it either.
[21:04] <scott-work> i think pulse is improving and the integration is improving greatly
[21:05] <astraljava> Yeah, agreed.
[21:05] <scott-work> i haven't noticed any particular latency problems myself, i can get quite low latencies still
[21:05] <scott-work> and i would suggest that perhaps he was not using the latest versions of certain packages
[21:06] <scott-work> his main complaint was with using ladish
[21:06] <scott-work> i spoke to falktx about this and falktx seemed quite sure that it isn't such a problem as quadrispro described
[21:07] <scott-work> however, i'm still unsure what the best practice to get jack settings implemented
[21:07] <astraljava> Right. It'd be good to get them both in for a chat some time.
[21:07] <scott-work> i was hoping TheMuso might offer a suggestion
[21:07] <scott-work> the only other vector i can think of at the moment woudl be to add it to the -default-settings package in the copy file
[21:08] <scott-work> but i am not a packaging czar ;)
[21:08] <astraljava> That's what I'm thinking.
[22:04] <scott-work> astraljava: i would presume that actual setting end up in the /home directory under .jackd or similar
[22:04] <scott-work> and aren't we to avoid doing funny stuff in the /home directory
[22:04] <scott-work> or what that be the .qjackctl directory actually
[22:05] <scott-work> and doesn't qjackctl actually create that directory when first used
[22:05] <scott-work> wouldn't qjackctl have some standard settings somewhere before it's used?
[22:05] <astraljava> Doesn't jackd store something in /etc?
[22:07] <scott-work> i might check this when i get home then
[22:18] <scott-work> i did a quick search in google and it looks like .jackdrc is creating in the home directory when qjackctl is started
[22:19] <scott-work> i'll verify this tonight on a separate machine
[22:19] <scott-work> maybe i should ask in #ardour as i know las hangs our there 
[23:12] <falktx_> hey there
[23:13] <knome> oi
[23:13] <falktx_> nice work on the website
[23:14] <knome> thanks :)
[23:14] <falktx_> I'l glad to see US going along for a rock 12.04 release
[23:14] <falktx_> let's hope things keep moving forwards
[23:14] <knome> yep
[23:14] <knome> same with xubuntu
[23:14]  * falktx_ is preparing the Cadence docs for it's first alpha release
[23:14] <knome> even we are not expecting many "new" things
[23:14] <falktx_> so XFCE is the deal, right?
[23:15] <knome> yeah, that's why it's "X"ubuntu ;)
[23:15] <falktx_> I mean US
[23:15] <knome> heh
[23:15] <falktx_> we're going for XFCE full way
[23:15] <falktx_> right?
[23:15] <knome> yeah
[23:15] <knome> that's a big change for US
[23:17] <falktx_> do we have a list of things needed for *-controls?
[23:17] <knome> i've no idea
[23:17]  * falktx_ is uploading files, so internet is slow
[23:20] <astraljava> Damn, that's a lot of files.
[23:21] <knome> yeah. you're slowing down my internet too.