[00:25] <rick_h> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2011/11/valve-confirms-steam-hack-credit-cards-personal-info-may-be-stolen.ars
[00:25] <rick_h> oh joy
[02:27] <snap-l> Apache security fix released.
[02:28] <rick_h> yay
[02:28] <snap-l> Also posted on the mailing list about the CDs and distribution
[02:29] <jjesse> evening
[02:30] <snap-l> Good evening.
[02:30] <jjesse> snowing on that side of the state?
[02:30] <snap-l> Not yet
[02:30] <rick_h> little bit earlier
[02:30] <snap-l> Apparently if you're not warm of heart like us in the D
[02:30] <jjesse> 94 between Marshall and 131 was down to 30 mph
[02:31] <snap-l> ;)
[02:33] <jjesse> because of the snow
[02:33] <snap-l> Yeah, Michigan doesn't do well with precipitation
[02:34] <snap-l> Yay, JoDee's home. Time to get some dinner.
[02:34] <snap-l> brb
[02:56] <jrwren> :(
[02:56] <jrwren> cursed snow.
[02:57] <jrwren> cursed late dinner.
[02:57] <jrwren> cursed apache security
[03:42] <snap-l> jrwren: Are you now a Hannah Barbera villan? "Curses!"
[12:54] <Wolfger> \o/
[12:55] <rick_h> party
[12:55] <Wolfger> I have my IRC back today!
[12:55] <brousch> is that why it was so quiet yesterday?
[12:55] <Wolfger> and it's Friday \o/
[12:55] <Wolfger> and it's snowing \o/
[12:55] <Wolfger> oh wait
[12:55] <Wolfger> and it's snowing :-(
[12:58] <Wolfger> and I'm editing perl scripts \o/
[12:58] <rick_h> lol
[12:58] <rick_h> I was afk most of the day
[12:59] <rick_h> blame me for quiet, little ranting to do
[12:59] <Wolfger> ah, and here I thought the moral of yesterday was "if you want rick_h to see something, you need to send it in IRC, not e-mail"
[12:59] <Wolfger> LOL
[13:23] <rick_h> I saw your thing and checked it out
[13:23] <rick_h> thought I replied to you about it?
[13:30] <snap-l> Ugh
[13:30] <rick_h> snap-l:  and brousch  http://www.blog.pythonlibrary.org/2011/11/10/wxpython-and-sqlalchemy-an-intro-to-mvc-and-crud/
[13:31] <brousch> old news. i saw that half an hour ago
[13:31] <rick_h> brousch: :P
[13:31] <brousch> :-D
[13:31] <rick_h> sorry, I'm a bit late getting up this morning, had to take the boy to day care
[13:31] <brousch> although if i had actually read the whole thing i would probably be getting done right about now
[13:31] <rick_h> looks solid for you gui types
[13:31] <Wolfger> rick_h: yeah, you replied. I got your reply late in the evening. I sent it before lunch I think...
[13:32] <rick_h> Wolfger: yea, that's my fault. I checked it out from my phone when you sent it, but was afk
[13:32] <brousch> nobody makes desktop applications these days
[13:32] <rick_h> I didn't reply until later in the day when I got some laptop time
[13:32] <rick_h> brousch: bwuhaha! the corruption is near complete
[13:32] <Wolfger> rick_h: no problem at all. I was just bored and without IRC to keep me company :-p
[13:33] <snap-l> Right, because there's a web service for collecting Arduino data
[13:33] <snap-l> <- cranky. ;)
[13:33] <brousch> snap-l: i assume you use a command line program that ships it up to a web service
[13:34] <snap-l> In real time?
[13:34] <brousch> close enough
[13:34] <brousch> use those web sockets things
[13:35] <snap-l> Yes, because every lab needs a dependency on Node. ;)
[13:36] <brousch> now you're getting it
[13:37] <brousch> you want to view it on your android tablet, right?
[13:38] <brousch> like on star trek where the engineers walk around with padds adjusting things
[13:44] <rick_h> snap-l: http://bret.appspot.com/entry/web-sockets-in-tornado
[13:44] <rick_h> no node, but you did just get a node book
[13:45]  * snap-l considers writing all of this in VB6
[13:45] <snap-l> The way that God intended. ;)
[13:46] <brousch> vb.net
[13:47] <brousch> you can get a free visual studio-based IDE from microsoft to help you
[13:47] <brousch> http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/products/2010-editions/visual-basic-express
[13:48] <brousch> i'm sure jrwren would be happy to answer any questions
[13:50] <jrwren> snap-l: I do love saying "curses" because of Hannah Barbera villans and because it is safe around my 4yo.
[13:50] <jrwren> snap-l: what rae you writing in VB6?
[13:50] <jrwren> and, yes, I would.
[13:51] <jrwren> but... for desktop GUI, F# is awesome. I wrote a GTK# twitter client in 104 lines of code.
[13:52] <snap-l> jrwren: I'm kidding
[13:53] <snap-l> I'd sooner write something in Java Swing than VB, not because I think VB isn't that great, but because Java Swing is more portable
[13:53] <snap-l> (And yes, I know Mono is supposed to fix that)
[13:53] <brousch> tkinter
[13:53]  * snap-l stops making sense and joins a circus.
[13:54] <snap-l> brousch: Don't make me ship myself to you to choke you. ;)
[13:54] <brousch> what's wrong with tk?
[13:54] <brousch> it even has a set of less-ugly widgets now
[13:55]  * snap-l tried learning TCL / TK early on becuase it was the "least painful at the time" way to make GUI application
[13:55] <snap-l> s
[13:56] <snap-l> And while TK was the saner part of the dynamic duo, it was still pretty miserable.
[13:56]  * snap-l did not like TCL
[13:57] <Wolfger> yeah, I would not recommend tk for any purpose, I don't think.
[13:58] <brousch> it's right in the python standard lib
[14:00] <snap-l> brousch: That's fine. It can stay there.
[14:01] <snap-l> You know who else was in the Python Standard Library?
[14:01] <snap-l> Hitler.
[14:02] <brousch> i don't see that anywhere. i think you're making it up
[14:03] <Wolfger> bwahahaha
[14:04] <Wolfger> yeah, after looking at wx, I can't imagine ever torturing myself with tk again
[14:04] <snap-l> Hitler was totally a fan of whitespace
[14:05]  * snap-l stops before he gets a CoC violation
[14:05] <brousch> hitler could be a module that enforces strict pep8. all pep8 warnings cause exceptions
[14:05] <brousch> like rick_h is standing behind you with a taser as you code
[14:07] <Wolfger> o_0   did brousch just compare rick_h to hitler?
[14:07] <ColonelPanic001> they do both have mustaches
[14:09] <brousch> they do?
[14:12] <Wolfger> I think hitler just had really bushy nose hair.
[14:14] <jrwren> snap-l: mono doesn't do anything for vb6 portability
[14:15] <jrwren> LOL @ hitler in PSL
[14:16] <jrwren> oh... now THAT is a software dev methodology in itself. " rick_h is standing behind you with a taser as you code"
[14:17] <Wolfger> jrwren: Yeah, that's kind of like "write your code as though it will have to be maintained by an angry axe murderer who knows where you live"
[14:17] <Wolfger> except less lethal and more immediate
[14:18] <jrwren> yes, and more personal.
[14:18] <jrwren> not only do i not worry about crossing the line... but I can also actively try to do great and make rick_h happy
[14:36] <snap-l> How have we lived before virtual machines and emulators?
[14:36] <snap-l> Poorly, I must confess.
[14:48] <Wolfger> what's a virtual machine?
[14:48]  * Wolfger still lives poorly
[14:53] <snap-l> Set up Virtualbox
[14:54] <rick_h> wtf, I leave for an hour and I'm now in the std lib for python? sweet!
[14:55] <brousch> from hitler import rick_h
[14:56] <rick_h> from hitler import TaserRick
[14:56] <rick_h> try: TaserRick.validate()
[14:56] <rick_h> EXCEPTION: You have angered Rick, prepare for the shock!
[14:57] <brousch> more effective than the jenkins nerf missile launcher thing
[14:59] <Wolfger> oh, great... he actually *likes* the idea of being a taser-wielding code nazi. We're all doomed.
[15:00] <Wolfger> on the plus side, code will look much nicer
[15:00] <rick_h> purdy!
[15:03]  * Wolfger wonders when TaserRick will become integrated into LaunchPad for the "benefit" of everybody's PPA...
[15:03] <rick_h> heh, there's already stuff there. Why I'm joining
[15:07] <ColonelPanic001> someone needs to write a PythonTidy sort of thing, but call it TaserRick, and with every found problem, it says "ZAP"
[15:08] <snap-l> Not sure if there's a USB cattle prod, but that's a requirement
[15:09] <snap-l> warnings, .5 seconds
[15:09] <snap-l> errors, 2 seconds.
[15:09] <rick_h> I think it'll have to come from the higher ups
[15:09] <rick_h> supplied in the office chairs
[15:09] <rick_h> "sweet, this pace has cool motorized powered office chairs!"
[15:10] <rick_h> booo, local verizon didn't have a live razr phone to play with
[15:10] <Wolfger> hah
[15:10] <rick_h> useless
[15:11] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2011/11/researchers-show-how-to-break-quantum-cryptography-by-faking-quantum-entanglement.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss
[15:11] <snap-l> What... the... fuck...
[15:13] <brousch> not to be pedantic, but the speech bubble in the picture is on the wrong character. skroob isn't even in the frame
[15:13] <brousch> now i can't take the article content seriously
[15:16] <snap-l> Yeah, because article content is totally dependent on the images used
[15:16] <snap-l> I totally disregard articles when they have images that don't fit the article at all
[15:16] <snap-l> (only half-kidding)
[15:18] <brousch> the idea behind the picture is OK, it's the execution that is fail
[15:21] <ColonelPanic001> In VIM, can I have fancy stuff where instead of just simple completion with ctrl+p, I can get things like php docs, so when I do it on, say "array_push", it'll tell me the syntax?
[15:21] <rick_h> yea, I had that working when I was doing php ColonelPanic001
[15:21] <brousch> ColonelPanic001: all of that is built into eclipse
[15:21] <rick_h> ColonelPanic001: https://github.com/mitechie/vim
[15:21] <ColonelPanic001> I don't mind doing the legwork - any idea where to start looking?
[15:21] <rick_h> that's my old php config
[15:22] <rick_h> check that out
[15:22] <ColonelPanic001> brousch: I know, I miss it from doing Android stuff in Eclipse ;)
[15:22] <ColonelPanic001> rick_h: thanks
[15:22] <ColonelPanic001> will-do
[15:22] <brousch> trollfail :(
[15:22] <rick_h> yea, looks like I had C-u mapped to phpdoc comand
[15:22] <rick_h> we just ignore you brousch
[15:23] <brousch> i don't blame you
[15:23] <ColonelPanic001> ;)
[15:23] <ColonelPanic001> I know it's a hanging offense, but I hve to admit to liking Eclipse for that kind of thing
[15:24] <ColonelPanic001> really brings down the learning curve when suddenly I have to do an android app, and have done a total of 50 lines of crappy Java
[15:24] <ColonelPanic001> I understand if you all want me to leave now.
[15:24] <brousch> ColonelPanic001: i started using netbeans when i was learning java. i didn't actually read a java book, i just scrolled through the autocompletes and javadocs looking for what made sense
[15:25] <ColonelPanic001> same here, with Eclipse, and for Android
[15:25] <rick_h> ColonelPanic001: yea, I think everyone admits it helps with the learning curve
[15:25] <ColonelPanic001> developer.android.com on the left monitor, Eclipse on the right
[15:25] <rick_h> but it does tend to lead to people that don't learn
[15:25] <ColonelPanic001> rick_h: pfft learning
[15:25] <brousch> learning is for chumps. all that matters is doing!
[15:26] <ColonelPanic001> nah, I  agree, I just could use the occasional "wtf is the order for the array and thing to add to it in this crappy function?"
[15:26] <rick_h> RickTaser.irc_activate(level=1111)
[15:26] <ColonelPanic001> haha
[15:27] <brousch> oh crap, i think i have the pidgin plugin for that activated
[15:27] <ColonelPanic001> *zzzzzzzzzt*
[15:27] <brousch> luckily my desll doesn't have the hardware support
[15:27] <brousch> dell
[15:28] <Wolfger> snap-l: interesting article, but I am increasingly of the opinion that quantum physics is just a big boondoggle.
[15:28] <brousch> all i got was a notification popup
[15:29] <Wolfger> I think when you take quantum physics classes in college, they sign you to an NDA and then fill you in that it's all a bunch of bunk that sounds sciencey enough to get the suits to keep throwing money at them for "research"
[15:30] <ColonelPanic001> ask _stink_
[15:30] <ColonelPanic001> that's the impression I get from 'string theory'
[15:31] <ColonelPanic001> seems like any time anyone mentions physics, someone will throw that word in, but I never hear wtf it *is*, except for once in a while "it's a mathematical model that may or may not have any real use or relevance at all"
[15:31] <Wolfger> heh
[15:32] <Wolfger> I suppose what really makes it all seem even worse than it is, is the fact that the common person's only exposure to it is via journalists.
[15:32] <ColonelPanic001> yeah
[15:33] <ColonelPanic001> I'm dumb. How does one go about getting this 'phpdoc' command? I'm not finding the package. php-doc doesn't seem to be it
[15:33] <brousch> string theory states that if you use enough complicated math and big words you can keep stringing people along for funding
[15:37] <snap-l> string theory is what happens when Math and Physics tries to fill in the blank spaces.
[15:37] <snap-l> see also: Dark Matter
[16:08] <_stink_> holy crap, something i know something about
[16:08] <ColonelPanic001> wat
[16:08] <ColonelPanic001> yes
[16:08] <brousch> _stink_: i was under the impression that if you say you understand string theory then you do not understand string theory
[16:08] <ColonelPanic001> tell us, is quantum phyics all bullshit, and the same for string theory
[16:09] <ColonelPanic001> I've never really heard anyone who would really know, say anything much about string theory
[16:09] <_stink_> brousch: hah.  wasn't it Feynman who said that about quantum field theory?
[16:09] <ColonelPanic001> seems like it's a buzzword to toss out there to make yourself sound like you might know stuff, or just because you heard it and it sounds neat
[16:09] <ColonelPanic001> yeah
[16:09] <ColonelPanic001> "I think I can safely say that no one understand quantum theory"
[16:09] <ColonelPanic001> paraphrased, don't remember exactly
[16:10] <_stink_> here's the thing you need to remember about string theory
[16:10] <ColonelPanic001> they get lost in the dryer
[16:10] <_stink_> at the moment it's totally untestable.
[16:10] <snap-l> It's a theory
[16:10] <_stink_> so it's just a bunch of math.
[16:10] <ColonelPanic001> IT'S JUST A THEORY
[16:10] <ColonelPanic001> I believe in intelligent phyics
[16:11] <_stink_> and there's no obvious way to turn it into anything testable.
[16:11] <snap-l> _stink_: Well, it has about as much chance of being tested definitively as LIGO has for finding gravitational waves.
[16:11] <ColonelPanic001> I believe in lego physics
[16:11] <snap-l> i.e. None.
[16:11] <_stink_> see, that word 'theory' blows.  people call Relativity a theory.  that word is meaningless.
[16:11] <Milyardo> Well no one doubts Relativity much many more, even though it was the Science Buzz word before String theory
[16:11] <ColonelPanic001> quarks are held together by little bumps and wholes
[16:11] <ColonelPanic001> holes
[16:11] <_stink_> whales
[16:11] <snap-l> ColonelPanic001: Whores.
[16:11] <_stink_> or that.
[16:11] <Milyardo> And the average person still doesn't understand relativity
[16:11] <ColonelPanic001> bumps on whores?
[16:12] <_stink_> schwing!
[16:12] <ColonelPanic001> sure we do. hand on stove, sitting next to pretty girl, etc. Einstein explained it all.
[16:12] <_stink_> but about quantum physics in general:
[16:13] <snap-l> Quantum Physics is where Newtonian physics goes for a hit of LSD
[16:13] <_stink_> it contains testable predictions that have been verified *orders of magnitude* more precisely than any other theory.
[16:13] <_stink_> PERIOD.
[16:13] <_stink_> it can hardly be more legit.
[16:14] <_stink_> that shit is real.
[16:14] <ColonelPanic001> and so it shall not quit
[16:14] <_stink_> hey, hey!
[16:14] <snap-l> _stink_: Do you understand Quantum Mechanics?
[16:14] <snap-l> (JoDee asking)
[16:14] <_stink_> i smell a punchline
[16:15] <snap-l> (Very Good)
[16:15] <_stink_> lulz
[16:15] <snap-l> (Because you smell a punchline, your statements are accurate)
[16:15] <snap-l> Apparently this is the secret handshake of Quantum Physicists.
[16:15] <_stink_> :D
[16:16] <_stink_> snap-l: tell her that her pal Pushkal is defending his Ph.D. sometime soon
[16:16] <snap-l> I think too the reason String Theory gets any credence is because the math "works" much in the same way that Quantum Math "works"
[16:16] <snap-l> _stink_: (That's wonderful!)
[16:17] <_stink_> snap-l: "work" as in "predicts fucking crazy shit that would be awesome and confusing if it were real"?
[16:18] <snap-l> Works, as in predicts crazy shit that, when we get the right equipment, appears to predict the crazy shit we're now able to observe
[16:19] <snap-l> (and yes, I know quantum observation is an oxymoron)
[16:19] <_stink_> naw, works fine for me.
[16:19] <_stink_> YOU BROKE THE WAVEFUNCTION
[16:19] <_stink_> i need a shirt that says that
[16:19] <snap-l> _stink_: We were going to get shirts made up that said "I'm braking your wave function"
[16:20] <snap-l> er, breaking
[16:20] <_stink_> lulz
[16:20] <_stink_> that would be awesome
[16:20] <_stink_> then turn a lowercase psi upsidedown and make it a frowny face
[16:21] <snap-l> You know what that smell is? The smell of money being left on the table.
[16:21] <brousch> d00d, get sheldon on big bang to wear it and you will be rich
[16:21] <_stink_> haha
[16:22] <_stink_> brousch: you're the graphics guy.
[16:22] <brousch> that is scary
[16:24] <snap-l> Sleep dep + allergy medication + Quantum = awesome
[16:31] <_stink_> quick google shows no good competing design on a shirt.
[16:31] <ColonelPanic001> do it
[16:46] <snap-l> http://decafbad.net/2011/11/11/1devday-detroit-the-cure-for-the-9-5-developer/
[16:52] <brousch> "Highly informative, and definitely a kick in the pants for anyone out there content to find the one-true-language." :P
[16:53] <snap-l> Well, consider web development requires you to learn two languages before you even start
[16:54] <snap-l> Javascript and whatever else you're developing in
[16:54] <snap-l> not to mention HTML and CSS
[16:54] <brousch> pyjamas lets me compile python to javascript!
[16:55] <snap-l> http://www.ccrnp.ncifcrf.gov/~toms/p2c/daves.index.html
[16:59] <brousch> 404
[17:07] <snap-l> try harder.
[17:10] <snap-l> http://www.meijer.com/s/big-steals/_/N-5io?CAWELAID=677385714&cmpid=dsfri
[18:09] <brousch> snap-l: hm, it looks like a dns problem
[18:31] <Wolfger> what a waste of a day
[18:33] <Wolfger> I just spent all day looking into a "problem" regarding data we collected back in March. The problem was fixed in April. No wonder I can't see anything wrong :-/
[18:34] <_stink_> WontFix
[18:37] <Wolfger> DidFix
[18:37] <Wolfger> can't tamper with data that was received due to the bug, but the bug itself was killed.
[18:38] <Wolfger> worst part is, the guy complaining today is the same guy I worked with to identify this problem back in April
[18:38] <_stink_> heh
[18:38] <Wolfger> we both completely forgot we'd already dealt with this
[18:40] <Wolfger> Must be a slow news day. For 11/11/11, SI is doing the top 11 players to ever wear #11.
[18:46] <jjesse> they are probably sick of penn state stuff
[19:13] <snap-l> http://candlelightrecordsusa.bandcamp.com/album/time-is-up <- Man, wish Candlelight was CC-friendly. ;)
[19:31] <Milyardo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/apt/+bug/56125
[20:01] <greg-g> Milyardo: thanks for the laugh :)
[20:26] <brousch> wtf, tjagoda got a reply from the Saruman twitter account
[20:34] <ColonelPanic001> he's screwed