=== michaelh1 is now known as michaelh1|away
pooliejam, hi?05:42
poolielifeless, hi?06:22
pooliespiv, hi?06:36
lifelesspoolie: ?07:48
vilahi all !07:50
pooliehi there vila07:56
poolievila: ah, more free advice :)07:56
vila? oom thread ? (catching up with mail)07:57
poolieon what beta means07:57
vilaoh, my take on that is to stop using 'gold' and just say 'source released' which is what we do anyway08:00
pooliei think that's the only change08:00
vilaoh, great to see we agree ;)08:01
=== Merwin_ is now known as Merwin
vilaas for beta/snapshot... I don't have a strong opinion either way08:02
pooliei don't see much point in changing08:09
poolievila, so basically i'm going to try inserting a layer that spills out big strings to temp files08:10
pooliei think it will be at least tolerably clean08:10
vilahmm, I was wondering about that but couldn't decide if that would be enough, good to try anyway08:11
pooliei think it's worth a try, yeah08:12
poolievila re detecting lp being down08:12
pooliei think some of that should go in lazr.restful08:12
pooliethen we need to release and deploy it08:12
poolieanother thing we really need to do is to finish jam's patches08:13
vilalazr.restful, right, but I'm not sure all of them can go there and I need a solution *now*08:14
vilaI've seen some 502 bad gateway which probably need to be reported when they are valid errors08:15
vilaand deciding if they are valid or not seem... untractable(sp?)  ;)08:15
vilare-connection patches... as mentioned, I'm worried we need to address some pre-requisites first or run into an endless whack-a-mole game08:16
lifelesspoolie: you pinged ?08:17
poolieyep, unping08:17
vilawe went down a road hoping to fix fallouts on the basis that they were no race, reality disagreed08:18
vilathere is still a tough call about using an external server or not08:19
vilaI call it tough as I'm not sure anymore that it will be enough to avoid the race(s)08:19
vilaI *thought* it was the way to go, I'm not sure anymore08:19
=== michaelh1|away is now known as michaelh1
poolieexternal server for what?08:32
vilatest server08:33
vilaas opposed to test server in the same process08:33
poolieoh i see i thought you were still talking about udd08:33
pooliewhat's the down side?08:34
vilathe whole 'race chasing' saga has revealed many races were really about running the client and the server in the same process, but the late issues have a different smell08:34
viladown side of using an external server ?08:34
vilafor one it requires up-front work to make sure it works,08:35
vilathen, if the race is not caused by using an internal one, it's useless to use an external one :)08:35
poolieit does not seem like it will often make things much worse08:39
pooliei thought we already did the work to run it externalyl?08:39
vilafor other kinds of server, yes, I did wrote a plugin, and internally I think there are tests that runs it externally in an ad-hoc way08:40
vilabut I was about to mention that I didn't look too closely to the code itself yet, my last work was to triage the failures on babune to get an overview08:42
vilafrom there I concluded that we really have a race (it happens on all platforms which rules out a kernel issue and also probably rules out a python issue)08:43
vilathe question, to me, now boils down to: is this (or these) race(s) caused by running an internal server OR do we have a genuine bug in the smart server08:44
poolieand they're all intermittent?08:47
poolieand they don't show up if you run the tests repeatedly locally?08:47
vilai.e. we're in a pretty bad situation were we can suddenly see failures to land valid stuff08:50
pooliei have never seen these hangs or failures08:50
pooliei don't think i've seen them on pqm either08:50
poolietherefore they don't exist08:51
poolieno, but seriously08:54
poolieit's specific to running under jenkins, or on those vms?08:54
vilamgz and I have been unfortunate enough to encounter them while submitting to pqm ;)08:54
poolievila, so09:09
pooliewhat's next?09:10
vilaso, I identified one race and have a patch for it against 2.4. I ran into conflicts trying to merge up to trunk09:11
vilaand these conflicts are (unsurprisingly) in the test servers09:12
vilawhich means reworking a bunch of later submissions09:12
vilabut that's only one race and I'm far from sure it's the only one09:12
vilaand, so far, I didn't want to switch from other stuff I'm already working on :-}09:13
vilain summary: those failures are bad but not critical (and hopefully will stay spurious, avoiding a total pqm hang), we probably want to fix them before reviewing/landing the reconnection stuff (to avoid more work)09:21
vilathis hasn't reach the top of my TODO list yet to avoid losing steam in other areas09:22
vilaoh, and jelmer encountered one of them too during an armel build IIRC09:25
spivpoolie: I'm around for a bit now09:27
pooliei was going to talk about some memory stuff but it's ok now09:33
pooliei wouldn't mind taking up your lunch offer some itme09:33
mgzmorning all09:34
pooliehi there09:34
pooliethanks for the review jam09:38
spivpoolie: sure, how about Wednesday?09:40
mgzre races earlier, they're less obvious on PQM mostly because we do far fewer runs there than across all of babune09:49
mgzI've had both of the two main flavours on pqm though, and one of the bugs was filed by jelmer because it happened on a buildd09:51
poolienight all10:02
pooliei'll be out tomorrow10:02
mgzhave fun at the races!10:03
_archI have a question concerning symbolic links in bazaar10:03
poolieno actual races10:03
_archI have a working tree that contains a lot of subdirectories that contain a bunch of files. I need to create symbolic links from these files to other subdirectories, and my colleagues need to be able to use these files just by pulling from our repo10:05
_archany ideas how to accomplish this?10:06
mgzI don't understand the problem statement.10:06
_archperhaps it's not very clear :)10:07
mgzit sounds like you're trying to version references to thinks outside the tree, then want people to get your branch and somehow be able to resolve the links?10:08
mgzthat's clearly not going to work.10:08
jam_arch: Assuming it is something like "bzr init work"; work/files/a; work/links/to_a10:08
jambzr will be able to track them appropriately, as long as you use relative symlinks10:08
_archproblem solved :)10:08
jameg cd work/links, ln -s ../files/a to_a10:08
jamnot full paths10:08
jamcd work/links10:08
jamln -s /home/_arch/path/to/work/files/a10:08
jamhowever, it all needs to be in one tree if you want 'bzr pull' to just work10:09
jamif you have >1 tree, then they'll at least have to pull in each tree10:09
_archI must have created my links improperly. Thanks a lot10:10
mgzbzr could probably complain if you try and version symlinks with absolute paths10:11
mgzas that's generally going to be a mistake10:11
jammgz: not really, just a different use case. "bzr init x; mkdir bin; cd bin; ln -s /usr/bin/python py"10:12
jamor maybe /etc/alternatives ?10:13
=== Merwin_ is now known as Merwin
jelmerthe daily builds now have translations enabled11:33
jelmergwenhwyvar:~% LANGUAGE=es_ES bzr rocks11:33
jelmer¡Seguro que no!11:33
vilaI don't speak spanish but this sounds like a little joke :)12:14
vilashouldn't that be s/no/si/ ?12:14
jelmervila: yeah :)12:19
Pegasus_RPGHello. I just set up a BZR repo on my web server using SFTP/SSH and test-committed a change from my local checkout. The commit worked fine but the file hasn't changed. How can I find out what is going on?12:33
jelmerPegasus_RPG: bzr doesn't update remote working trees (push should warn you about this)12:35
jelmerPegasus_RPG: you can use the push-and-update plugin to ssh into the server to update the working tree12:35
Pegasus_RPGjelmer: But I initially pushed using sftp12:37
Pegasus_RPGthen made a checkout (I like checkouts better)12:37
Pegasus_RPGthen made a change, then committed12:37
jelmerPegasus_RPG: bzr won't update the checkout, just the branch, over sftp12:37
Pegasus_RPGI need bzr+ssh://  ?12:38
jelmerPegasus_RPG: no, you'll need something like the push-and-update plugint to update the remote working tree12:38
Pegasus_RPGso how does a commit work with launchpad then?12:38
Pegasus_RPGI've been doing that for years12:39
jamjelmer, mgz, vila: Has there been a qbzr *release* to correlate with the Unicode encoding problem, or is 2.5b3 supposed to include qbzr trunk?12:39
jelmerjam: I'm not sure, I'm having trouble finding the unicode bug at the moment12:45
jambug #88920812:46
ubot5Launchpad bug 872616 in QBzr "duplicate for #889208 TypeError on all commands that get progress report from subprocess" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/87261612:46
jamwell, 872616 I guess12:46
vilainstallers for betas are supposed to carry tips unless specifically told otherwise no ?12:48
jelmerjam: I suspect you'll need trunk as (as far as I can tell) qbzr hasn't done a release since that bug was reported12:48
jamvila: nope12:50
jamvila: at least, the last 99 windows installers didn't12:50
jamperhaps I've just been doing them all wrong12:50
vilatoo bad, that's what OSX installers do :-/12:50
vilathey switch to official releases or specific revisions when .0 is reached12:51
vilathe idea being to give some exposure to plugins during the betas and give some incentive to plugin authors to do some official releases12:52
Pegasus_RPGjelmer: I'm confused...how does Bazaar accomplish it's main function if users can't update the server's repo by default?12:53
jelmerPegasus_RPG: it can update the repository, but it doesn't update the files in the working tree12:53
jelmerPegasus_RPG: you'll notice that if you run "bzr up" in the remote repository it will create those files12:54
jamvila: it seems a bit odd to expose trunk's tip, and then revert it to a released version if the plugin doesn't actually make a release.12:54
Pegasus_RPGjelmer: actually, it complains   bzr: ERROR: No WorkingTree exists for "file:///var/www/Browns/OperationsSystem/.bzr/checkout/".12:54
vilajam: which is why I said "or specific revisions"12:54
jamvila: sure. Though IMO it isn't the packager's decision what version of X should be released to the world, but up to upstream. Again, people can certainly have different opinions.12:55
jamwe can certainly change the release process, the build tool is capable of releasing from tip or from explicit versions12:56
jamI'm certainly not planning on running that debate ATM12:56
jelmerPegasus_RPG: hmm, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking in that case12:56
jamI just noticed 'mgz' saying "wait for the next release", and noticing that it wouldn't actually have the fix12:56
jamqbzr specifically used to make monthly releases to coincide even with bzr betas.12:57
vilajam: then you know better than me :)12:57
vilajam: ask the qbzr maintainers maybe ?12:58
jamvila: bialix and garyvdm aren't in the channel, mgz made the fix but hasn't responded (is he off today?)12:58
Pegasus_RPGjelmer: OK... I want to convert an existing static directory on a web server into a bzr repo so I can make a local checkout, work on it, then commit the changes to the live server. How do I do that?12:59
mgzjam: you're right it's odd, but you do need qbzr trunk currently13:00
Pegasus_RPGjelmer: So far, I installed bzr locally, straight-copied the static web server files to a local directory, bzr init'ed it, then bzr push --use-existing-dir   to the exising server directory.13:00
jelmerPegasus_RPG: ahh13:00
jelmerPegasus_RPG: you want to add all the files to the repository - try "bzr add ." followed by "bzr commit"13:00
jelmerPegasus_RPG: to upload the files to the remote location, you probably want to use "bzr upload" rather than "bzr push"13:01
jelmerPegasus_RPG: ("bzr push" only updates the remote bzr repository, and doesn't update a checkout if it exists there)13:02
Pegasus_RPGjelmer: ok, so use bzr upload all the time or just the first time?13:02
jelmerPegasus_RPG: all the time13:02
Pegasus_RPGok. (I still wonder how LaunchPad repos work. There, I can make a local checkout, work on it, then bzr commit and the changes are up on the server for all to soo.)13:03
Pegasus_RPGjelmer: erm, Bazaar 2.1.2 doesn't know "upload"13:04
vilaPegasus_RPG: there is no working trees on launchpad13:04
jelmerPegasus_RPG: it's a plugin13:04
mgziniting bzrlib in a script is still a pain13:20
vilawhat could make it less painful ?13:22
mgznot having to know which other random things don't get called in initialize and need to be done seperately13:23
mgzin this case, I needed commands._register_builtin_commands() and plugin.load_plugins() and commands.install_bzr_command_hooks()13:24
jelmermgz: I think we should have a load_plugins=bool argument for bzrlib.intiialize13:25
mgzvila: do you have a lot of plugins in you base setup?13:25
mgzjelmer: hooks are also an issue it seems13:25
mgzvila: can you run lp:~gz/+junk/list_global_options and pastebin the results?13:26
vilamgz: 28 plugins13:26
mgzI'm on a minor yak mission.13:27
vilamgz: ^13:29
jelmerhmm, 48 plugins here..13:31
mgzdo you get anything more running the script jelmer?13:33
jelmermgz: Global options used by plugins: ['change', 'directory', 'force', 'merge-type', 'overwrite', 'remember', 'reprocess', 'revision', 'show-ids', 'timezone', 'verbose']13:35
mgzforce and reprocess13:35
mgzcool, thanks!13:35
jelmerpipeline uses reprocess13:36
mgzforce is a bit funky, doesn't come with help13:38
mgzall the bzrlib commands that want --force supply an option so you know what's being forced13:38
=== Kraln- is now known as Kraln
GRiDjam, thanks for analysis on bug 72085314:52
ubot5Launchpad bug 720853 in Bazaar "bzr crashed with RuntimeError in normpath(): maximum recursion depth exceeded while calling a Python object" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72085314:52
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DeafFishWhen will the nested tree feature be released?18:30
jelmerDeafFish: hi18:55
jelmerDeafFish: there is some basic support for nested trees in the experimental 'development-subtree' format in current versions of bzr18:56
DeafFishAh, ok18:56
jelmerDeafFish: finishing nested trees and adding support for it to the stable format is on our list of things to work on18:56
DeafFishAny word on when it will move into stable?18:57
jelmerDeafFish: not really, sorry18:58
DeafFishNo worries18:58
DeafFishAs of right now it isn't a problem18:59
glyphhello bzr19:15
ubot5Ubuntu bug 890373 in Bazaar "can't get a launchpad branch into a shared repository" [Undecided,New]19:15
glyphonce again Twisted development is thwarted by trying to use bzr :(19:16
jelmerhi glyph19:21
glyphhi jelmer19:22
mgzlooks like bug 80634819:22
ubot5Launchpad bug 806348 in Launchpad itself "BzrCheckError: Internal check failed: Cannot add revision(s) to repository: missing chk node(s) for id_to_entry maps" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80634819:22
mgzthough I thought it was one exarkun had already reported19:23
glyphmgz: we run into it every so often19:23
glyphat inconvenient times19:23
jelmermgz: I've marked it as a dupe19:23
glyphI can send you my shared repo if that would help19:23
jelmernow that bzr-svn passes all the main bzr tests I'm pretty sure it no longmer creates revisions with this issue19:24
jelmerbut there are probably still revisions out there in the wild that were created with older versions of bzr-svn19:24
glyphjelmer: is there a way to fix it?19:25
glyphjelmer: we have an official bzr mirror, and we're trying to migrate slowly to bzr rather than svn, these periodic disasters notwithstanding19:25
glyphjelmer: but throwing out our repository and breaking all clients every time we discover a wayward revision is not really an attractive option :-\19:26
mgzglyph: as with this other things you guys have reported, looks like we just need to fix the bug19:29
glyphmgz: yes please19:31
jelmerglyph: there are two things - 1) updating your mirror to have the right representation of those svn revisions (created with bzr-svn 1.1.1) will make sure you don't hit this bug, and 2) bzr should be able to cope with this situation (perhaps warn, because it is after all slightly different metadata) but not fail19:33
glyphjelmer: oh19:33
glyphjelmer: looks like I'm still on 1.0.5dev19:33
glyphjelmer: has 1.1.1 made it into a mac installer yet?19:33
jelmerglyph: no, it looks like it's a fair few revisions behind19:38
jelmerdoxx isn't around at the moment, I'll submit an MP19:41
jelmerglyph: submitted an updated for the 2.4 mac installers, hopefully doxx will merge that for the next one19:56
jelmerback later19:56
glyphso speaking of things which don't work right21:13
glyphwhat's the status of bzr-git?  can one maintain a git mirror of a bzr repository yet?21:13
jelmerglyph: no, but we're getting there21:14
jdobrienhi all... a while ago someone was telling me about an alternative to using repo when you have a number of consecutive branches to work on...any help/reminders would be appreciated21:15
jelmerglyph: bug #544776 is the main bug to track21:15
ubot5Launchpad bug 544776 in Bazaar Git Plugin "no roundtripping support" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54477621:15
jelmerjdobrien: hi21:15
jelmerjdobrien: colocated branches perhaps?21:15
glyphjelmer: thanks.  I know it's kinda ridiculous to even ask, but: do you have an ETA?21:17
glyph(how come launchpad doesn't track effort estimates)21:17
jdobrienjelmer: that's it :)21:19
jelmerglyph: so, in its most simple form (maintaining an incremental git mirror of the bzr branch, no merging back into bzr), it apparently already works21:26
jelmerglyph: somebody is using that to maintain a git mirror of mysql21:27
jelmerglyph: that said, the format is still experimental and there are still a lot of tests that need fixing - I'm not going to enable this until that happens21:27
glyphjelmer: I'll just bug Twisted people who want us to move to bzr to start clicking on that bug :)21:28
jelmerglyph: (I don't really want to end up with bugs similar to bug 806348, but for bzr-git)21:29
ubot5Launchpad bug 806348 in Launchpad itself "BzrCheckError: Internal check failed: Cannot add revision(s) to repository: missing chk node(s) for id_to_entry maps" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/80634821:29
jelmerglyph: it is one of the things I'm working on though, and we have made some big improvements towards bug 544776 in the last few months21:30
ubot5Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #544776 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/544776). The error has been logged21:30
glyphjelmer: is there a way to fix the shared repository with the buggy revisions yet without re-importing it from scratch?21:36
jdobrienjelmer: if I am starting with an empty directory (not bzr'd) and a project in launchpad and i want to use colo, what do i do? I'm following the tutorial and it's not making sense21:38
jelmerjdobrien: sorry, I don't actually have any experience with bzr-colo myself21:48
jdobrienjelmer: ok21:48
jelmerglyph: re-importing from scratch is the only way I'm aware of. fixing the bzr side of things (not error out so badly, but coping with the inconsistent metadata) would also work around it of course21:50
glyphjelmer: what about lp:twisted22:16
glyphjelmer: will that automatically re-run its import at some point?22:17
jelmerglyph: that's a good point, I'll look into it23:05

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