[00:00] <StevenK> lifeless: I guess we can look forward to drowning in scriptactivity warnings about oops-prune when your branch gets deployed, then. :-(
[00:01] <lifeless> why? we will delete its entreis
[00:04] <StevenK> mwhudson: My change only means bin/ec2 won't use AMIs created by you -- that's all.
[00:04] <mwhudson> StevenK: oh right
[00:04] <mwhudson> StevenK: sorry for the noise
[00:07] <lifeless> this is perhaps a little to eager, as poolie just added himself
[00:07] <lifeless> I certainly think non-staff need to be removed
[00:09] <StevenK> mwhudson: It's perfectly fine. :-)
[00:09] <StevenK> lifeless: Well, to be fair, I JFDI'd, rather than communicated about it.
[00:11] <lifeless> I think thats fine
[00:11] <lifeless> just suggesting perhaps it needs a tweak
[00:23] <poolie> StevenK, i was only suggesting to remove non staff
[00:23] <poolie> anyhow
[00:23] <poolie> ConfigurationConflictError: Conflicting configuration actions
[00:24] <poolie>   For: ('protectName', <class 'lp.services.salesforce.proxy.Voucher'>, u'__str__')
[00:24] <poolie>     File "/home/mbp/launchpad/lp-branches/work/configs/development/salesforce-configure-normal.zcml", line 16.4-18.4
[00:24] <poolie> is this my fault?
[00:24] <wgrant> What did you change?
[00:25] <poolie> https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/678090-affected-count/+merge/81108
[00:25] <poolie> i exposed a new method on bug
[00:25] <poolie> nothing to do with sf
[00:26] <wgrant> Your indentation is buggy, but agreed.
[00:26] <poolie> where?
[00:26] <wgrant> 295 of the diff
[00:26] <wgrant> You have a two-space indent.
[00:27] <poolie> so does the code i copied :)
[00:27] <poolie> but i will fix it
[00:27] <wgrant> So it does :(
[00:28] <poolie> am i allowed to put blank lines around those declarations?
[00:28] <poolie> i think it would be more readable
[00:28] <wgrant> VWS is discouraged but not forbidden, unless lifeless sees you doing it.
[00:28] <poolie> i thought it was required between class members?
[00:29] <poolie> between _methods_
[00:29] <poolie> according to pep8
[00:29] <wgrant> Between methods, sure.
[00:29] <wgrant> That's not discretionary VWS.
[00:29] <wgrant> Discretionary VWS is strongly discouraged.
[00:30] <poolie> i'll leave it then
[00:30] <poolie> indents are fixed
[00:30] <poolie> could you read the diff for me?
[00:30] <wgrant> What produces that error?
[00:30] <wgrant> Starting a dev appserver? Starting the test suite?
[00:34] <poolie> running the tests
[00:34] <poolie> um
[00:35] <poolie> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/737824/
[00:36] <wgrant> Is that the right branch?
[00:36] <wgrant> It's an odd name.
[00:37] <poolie> https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/678090-affected-count/+merge/81108
[00:37] <poolie> is the branch in which that error occurred
[00:37] <wgrant> Right, but it's in a directory named 'work', which suggests it's either old or wrong or polluted with bad ZCML or config symlinks or something like that.
[00:37] <poolie> it's a colo workspace
[00:37] <poolie> i have just one tree
[00:38] <wgrant> Ah
[00:44] <lifeless> huwshimi: I'm glad to see you writing up UI patterns; I'm a bit surprised that we don't have such things already
[00:45] <huwshimi> lifeless: Yeah, it's something I've been meaning to do for ages :)
[00:45] <lifeless> heh, I know that feeling :)
[00:47] <rick_h> huwshimi: link?
[00:47] <huwshimi> rick_h: https://dev.launchpad.net/UI/Patterns
[00:47] <huwshimi> rick_h: It's not much more than a stub at the moment
[00:48] <rick_h> cool, I was looking for something like that the other day so very cool
[00:49] <rick_h> I think it was http://www.amazon.com/Designing-Web-Interfaces-Principles-Interactions/dp/0596516258/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1321231747&sr=8-10 that had some good things about creating documented sets of ui "modules" and describing interactions and such
[00:51] <huwshimi> I certainly would like to come up with a pattern for how to write that kind of documentation too.
[00:51] <rick_h> sec, checking if I got it on kindle, pdf, etc
[01:10] <lifeless> who is OCR today ?
[01:10] <lifeless> I want the bot to know this
[01:10] <StevenK> stub
[01:10] <lifeless> stub
[01:10] <lifeless> yeah
[01:36] <StevenK> lifeless: And how does the bot deal with sick days/days off, etc? :-)
[01:38] <poolie> hi huw, i'm happy to see that too
[01:42] <poolie> huwshimi, i do wonder a bit how much of that is describing the current state vs endorsing it
[01:42] <poolie> eg green links
[01:42] <poolie> wallyworld_, could you reread https://code.launchpad.net/~mbp/launchpad/678090-affected-count/+merge/81108 for me some time?
[01:42]  * wallyworld_ looks
[02:00] <wallyworld_> poolie: looks like a nice change. are feature flags reset after each test? i normally use "with FeatureFixture ". perhaps also the flag name could be declared as a constant
[02:01] <wallyworld_> poolie: the tests all seem to set the fflag. are there any tests without the fflag?
[02:02] <poolie> there are thousands of tests without the flag :)
[02:02] <poolie> some of them covering this
[02:02] <poolie> i don't have any tests that assert what the default flag value is
[02:03] <poolie> not sure that would be worthwhile
[02:03] <mwhudson> "are tests reset after each test" -- yes
[02:03] <poolie> flags too
[02:03] <mwhudson> if not, i'm coming after you with a rusty pickaxe :-)
[02:03] <mwhudson> ah yes
[02:04] <poolie> that would be insane if not
[02:04] <mwhudson> indeed
[02:05] <poolie> wallyworld_, re making it a constant
[02:05] <poolie> making it a constant pointing to a string would feel kinda half baked i think
[02:05] <poolie> perhaps the features should change to be really registered as objects not tuples
[02:05] <poolie> then the code can mention the object
[02:06] <poolie> which would make it harder for them to be orphaned
[02:06] <poolie> i guess for out of process lookups and maybe tal we would still use just a symbolic name
[02:06] <poolie> could do that separately though i think
[02:07] <wallyworld_> poolie: i was just talking about the tests
[02:08] <wallyworld_> poolie: i think i got confused. the flag seems to be to used to revert to the old behaviour? ie by default, without the flag, dupes are counted, which is the new behaviour?
[02:09] <poolie> yes
[02:09] <wallyworld_> hence wouldn't all the 1000's of  existing tests need to be changed?
[02:09] <wallyworld_> to count differently
[02:09] <poolie> this is a 'get out of jail' that restores the old less useful behaviour if it turns out this is too expensive
[02:10] <poolie> wallyworld_, there were no previous tests about counting affected users across dupes
[02:10] <wallyworld_> yes,  but my point is that i would have expected to see the flag used in the "1000's of existing tests" to make them work properly
[02:10] <poolie> none of the affectsmetoo tests create dupes
[02:10] <wallyworld_> ah ok
[02:10] <poolie> aside from the ones i adedd
[02:11] <wallyworld_> so, back to my original question :-) shouldn't some of the new tests added be with and withou tthe fflag?
[02:11] <poolie> but the other tests reassure me that my change hasn't broken the bugs page when you file dupes, look at dupes anonymously, etc
[02:11] <poolie> oh, like i should copy eg test_other_users_affected_count and do it with and without the flag?
[02:11] <poolie> maybe i should
[02:11] <wallyworld_> yes, otherwise you are not testing the new functionality
[02:12] <poolie> sorry no eg test_counts_affected_by_master
[02:12] <poolie> mm
[02:12] <poolie> most of the tests do try the new behaviour
[02:12] <poolie> they explicitly set the flag to '' ie false, ie 'not disabled'
[02:13] <wallyworld_> ah, i misread that. because normally setting the fflag to *anything* equates to true, my eyes misread the tests
[02:13] <wallyworld_> i missed the ''
[02:14] <wallyworld_> whenever i see a fflag set, my mind assumes it is being set to a value which evaluates to true
[02:15] <poolie> :/
[02:15] <wallyworld_> poolie: so do you really need to set the flag to ''?
[02:15] <poolie> i want to also do a followon which makes them properly typed
[02:15] <poolie> ie if its declared bool, you get a real bool
[02:15] <lifeless> mmm
[02:16] <lifeless> I am skeptical
[02:16] <poolie> wallyworld_, i just thought it was more explicit to say "this is the behaviour i expect when this is enabled"
[02:16] <lifeless> I think that will make them more fragile.
[02:16] <wallyworld_> poolie: what i mean is, i the default is false, why have effectively a noop at the start of the test?
[02:16] <poolie> explicitude
[02:16] <wallyworld_> had the opposite effect on me :-)
[02:17] <poolie> lifeless, one concrete probelm is that they suffer from bool('false') == True
[02:17] <wallyworld_> but it was my misreading
[02:17] <lifeless> poolie: OTOH they can't raise TypeError
[02:18] <wallyworld_> poolie: fwiw, most of the other tests i see and also write myself do not set the fflag at the start of the test if the default is required
[02:18] <lifeless> poolie: I'd be happy with the editor page being taught that a bool entry has a 0 length string to indicate False
[02:18] <poolie> you're saying you don't want bad input data to cause a typeerror at the point the flag is used?
[02:19] <poolie> it will be less fragile if it's just given some arbitrary interpretation, as it is at the moment?
[02:19] <lifeless> amongst other concerns yes; I think there is a good leanness is having it be None-or-a-string
[02:19] <lifeless> its a clear common substrate
[02:20] <lifeless> No matter what crap gets into the table, that substrate won't fail
[02:20] <wallyworld_> poolie: i've already had this argument with lifeless :-)
[02:20] <lifeless> if you have a type system, you, by definition need to handle date entered with one type being read out with a different type
[02:21] <lifeless> bah, my commas are in terrible places there
[02:21] <poolie> lifeless, i'm pretty sure there's already some code that does cast-to-bool and some that does =='on'
[02:21] <poolie> this seems poor
[02:21] <lifeless> I'm happy - delighted even - for the editing UI - to have such complexity in it, and I'm happy for helpers to work with what the substrate returns.
[02:22] <poolie> i agree with being robust about invalid stuff in the table
[02:24] <mwhudson> is there some magic to installing launchpad-dependencies on oneiric?
[02:24] <mwhudson> i get launchpad-dependencies : Depends: libsvn-dev but it is not going to be installed
[02:24] <poolie> you need ppa:bzr too
[02:24] <poolie> and maybe universe?
[02:25] <mwhudson> ah, i'll try with the bzr ppa
[02:25] <lifeless> poolie: My constraints are:
[02:25] <poolie> no it's in main
[02:25] <mwhudson> i have universe enabled
[02:25] <lifeless>  - the substrate Must Not Fail
[02:25] <lifeless>  - Ever
[02:26] <lifeless>  - single pages can die, thats tolerable
[02:26] <mwhudson> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.
[02:26] <lifeless>  - the editing page -should- never fail, but we could tolerate a failure there
[02:26] <mwhudson> thanks apt, how about telling me which
[02:26] <wgrant> mwhudson: sudoa pt-get install libsvn-dev?
[02:27] <poolie> sure
[02:27] <wgrant> You have to drill down manually.
[02:27] <wgrant> But it'll eventually tell you.;
[02:27] <poolie> thanks for being clear about the constraint
[02:27] <poolie> i agree with that
[02:27] <mwhudson> wgrant: a seemingly endless excercise in dependency chasing
[02:27] <wgrant> mwhudson: Yes
[02:27] <mwhudson> isn't sorting that out what apt is for? :)
[02:27] <lifeless>  - the type system has to be clearly a hint - the underlying data -is- untyped and I don't want folk to forget that
[02:27] <lifeless>  - fin
[02:27] <poolie> i guess you can try aptitude
[02:28] <poolie> sure
[02:28] <lifeless> If you want to design something up that works within those constraints, I'll be happy to be a sounding board and/or review the design for you.
[02:28] <poolie> not today
[02:28] <poolie> i will take you up on it later
[02:28] <lifeless> Personally, I wouldn't do it. I'd write helpers that work on the substrate rather than changing the substrate.
[02:29] <poolie> hm
[02:29] <mwhudson> wgrant: ah
[02:29] <mwhudson>  krb5-multidev : Depends: libkrb5-3 (= 1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1.1) but 1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu2.1 is to be installed
[02:29] <poolie> i was just going to add a function get_flag_whatever(name)
[02:29] <mwhudson> which is a bit strange
[02:29] <poolie> does the casting to the type declared for that flag
[02:29]  * mwhudson disables -proposed
[02:29] <poolie> this is what most callers want
[02:29] <poolie> it can squelch errors if we want
[02:29] <StevenK> mwhudson: arch-indep has been published before arch-dep
[02:29] <poolie> i'm not planning to change the db or anything
[02:30] <poolie> separately, in the editor, things that are bools, which seems to be the majority, can be shown as such
[02:30] <mwhudson> StevenK: ah, so the archive/my mirror is broken?
[02:30] <StevenK> I'd check your mirror first
[02:30] <StevenK> But the pulse may have happened between publications as it were
[02:30] <wgrant> StevenK, mwhudson: Except that that's not meant to happen any more.
[02:30] <StevenK> There is that, too
[02:30] <wgrant> That's why the publisher takes 90 minutes.
[02:30] <StevenK> Perhaps it doesn't work over pockets
[02:31] <wgrant> That shouldn't matter, since apt should see the right version in some other pocket.
[02:31] <wgrant> And pick that.
[02:31] <wgrant> Hopefully.
[02:31] <mwhudson> nz.archive.ubuntu.com does not have a record of working 100% of the time
[02:31] <StevenK> Ah, citylink
[02:31] <StevenK> Heh heh
[02:31] <lifeless> mwhudson: the US mirror works pefectly :P
[02:31] <poolie> if you add the real archive at the end of sources.list
[02:32] <poolie> it will read from your nearby mirror if possible and otherwise fall back
[02:32] <ajmitch> StevenK: you say that like it's a bad thing :P
[02:32] <StevenK> ajmitch: But it is? :-P
[02:33] <mwhudson> bah
[02:33] <mwhudson> disabled -proposed and switching to archive.ubuntu.com and still the same nonsense
[02:33] <lifeless> mwhudson: 'lxc-create'
[02:34] <wgrant> mwhudson: You haven't held krb5-multidev or something?
[02:34] <wgrant> mwhudson: apt-get install krb5-multidev
[02:34] <wgrant> What does it whine about?
[02:34] <mwhudson>  krb5-multidev : Depends: libkrb5-3 (= 1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu1.1) but 1.9.1+dfsg-1ubuntu2.1 is to be installed
[02:34] <mwhudson> wgrant: as before
[02:34] <wgrant> apt-cache policy krb5-multidev
[02:34] <mwhudson> i do have some pinning, but no holding afaict
[02:35] <mwhudson> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/737890/
[02:35] <wgrant> Well then.
[02:35] <wgrant> Ah.
[02:35] <wgrant> Pinned.
[02:36] <wgrant> Why is security pinned over updates?
[02:36] <wgrant> They're naturally 500.
[02:36] <mwhudson> ah
[02:36] <mwhudson> because i followed some stupid instructions i suspect
[02:36] <mwhudson> to whit: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/EnableProposed
[02:37] <wgrant> The first sign that something was up should have been the pre-Lucid screenshot.
[02:37] <wgrant> That's never a good sign.
[02:37] <StevenK> mwhudson: 'narsil' ?
[02:37] <mwhudson> StevenK: lotr/tolkien references in machine names seemed like a good idea a decade ago
[02:39] <wgrant> mwhudson: So, pin proposed below 500 if you want, but I'd recommend not pinning up updates/security.
[02:39] <mwhudson> wgrant: yeah, i deleted the !proposed sections
[02:39] <wgrant> Although I just run with -proposed unpinned. It's hardly worse than running a dev series...
[02:39] <wgrant> Great.
[02:40] <poolie> likewise
[02:41] <wgrant> That reminds me, I must upgrade to precise soon.
[03:21] <lifeless> right, tomorrow I write the untestable launchpadlib glue, and then we have fast oops pruning done.
[03:21] <lifeless> one more tick in the box.
[04:16] <huwshimi> ok, tal hackers, in this paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/737935/ the function "view/style_for_add_milestone" returns a style, instead I want it to return a class. I have modified the function, but I'm not sure how to modify the tal to return the class when there are already classes on the <a>.
[04:23] <poolie> huwshimi, i would guess you need to define it as a python expression that returns the whole string
[04:24] <poolie> eg putting the other classes into style_for_add_milestone
[04:27] <poolie> wallyworld_, so what was your overall verdict?
[04:28] <mwhudson> huwshimi: you can say things like tal:attributes="class string:bish bash bosh ${view/other_classes}"
[04:28] <mwhudson> (if that's what you're asking for, not really sure)
[04:28] <poolie> oh right
[04:29] <wallyworld_> poolie: looks ok to me, my misreading of the fflag aside. my personal preference is not to set the flag if the test is expecting the default behaviour
[04:30] <poolie> thanks
[04:30] <poolie> i have mixed feelings about the test
[04:30] <poolie> i think i will leave it for now
[04:31] <wallyworld_> ok. the actual business logic looks ok i think
[04:50] <huwshimi> mwhudson: Thank, that worked perfectly
[04:50] <huwshimi> *thanks
[04:50] <mwhudson> huwshimi: np
[05:01] <poolie> StevenK, if nothing falls over after that ec2 landing i will update the image later in the week
[05:27] <huwshimi> A pretty trivial CSS review if someone's keen: https://code.launchpad.net/~huwshimi/launchpad/style-removal-one/+merge/82096
[05:30] <wgrant> lol bigpond
[05:30] <wgrant> Afternoon bigjools.
[05:30] <bigjools> eyup
[05:30] <bigjools> crappiest internets evar
[05:30] <StevenK> Welcome to Australia
[05:30] <bigjools> except when I was in Brazil and the connection went every time it rained
[05:31] <StevenK> And it's bigpong, so it's even worse.
[05:31] <wgrant> s/Australia/Telstra/
[05:31] <bigjools> hey, it's free with the apartment
[05:31] <StevenK> There is a reason for that.
[05:32]  * bigjools looks for slab of meat to throw on bbq
[05:32] <StevenK> You could always visit wallyworld_ and suffer through using TPG.
[05:32] <bigjools> I was at his place last night
[05:33] <StevenK> Brisbane is only 31, disappointing
[05:33] <StevenK> It hit 38 here today
[05:33] <wgrant> In November? I doubt that.
[05:33] <wgrant> Except you're right.
[05:33] <wgrant> Wow
[05:33] <wgrant> WTF
[05:33] <bigjools> not that I'd know inside the airconned car and airconned shopping mall
[05:33] <StevenK> Don't doubt me, I'm bloody melting
[05:34] <bigjools> is this all you guys talk about before EU wakes up? :)
[05:34] <StevenK> Not usually
[05:35] <bigjools> 38 is not pleasant
[05:35] <StevenK> And no air-con here
[05:36] <wgrant> O_o
[05:36]  * wgrant submits a new definition of "unwise" to the dictionary.
[05:36] <bigjools> doesn't your equipment go bleargh?
[05:36] <StevenK> Nope
[05:36] <bigjools> wgrant: s/unwise/tight fisted/  :)
[05:36] <StevenK> bigjools: Rented apartment, I have no choice
[05:36] <bigjools> bugger
[05:43] <wallyworld_> StevenK: tpg is good :-P
[05:43] <StevenK> s/\(good\)/\1 for nothing/
[05:43] <wallyworld_> have you ever used it?
[05:44] <StevenK> I have used both their dial-up and broadband service, yes
[05:44] <StevenK> But I have not been a customer of theirs
[05:44] <wallyworld_> for me it's fast and cheap
[05:44] <wallyworld_> never have drop outs
[05:44] <StevenK> Wait until you call support
[05:45] <StevenK> Heh heh
[05:45] <wallyworld_> why would i wan tto do that?
[05:45] <wallyworld_> never had a need to in over 4 years
[05:45] <StevenK> Just because you never have had to doesn't mean you won't need to.
[05:45] <wallyworld_> use them for mobile too. heaps of data and calls for not much cash
[05:46] <wgrant> $ grep wallyworld.*tpg.*Ping\ timeout irclogs/Freenode/#launchpad-dev.log | wc -l
[05:46] <wgrant> 272
[05:46] <wgrant> QED
[05:46] <StevenK> Hahahaha
[05:46] <wallyworld_> why should i care about that latency? i don't play games
[05:46] <StevenK> wgrant: Pointless use of wc -l :-P
[05:47]  * StevenK waits for "Silence!"
[05:47] <wgrant> Latency?
[05:47] <wgrant> I didn't see anyone talk about latency...
[05:47] <StevenK> A ping timeout is not latancy
[05:47] <StevenK> *latency
[05:47] <wallyworld_> sorry, i misread
[05:47] <wgrant> (well, unless >5min latency still counts as latency)
[05:47] <StevenK> Haha
[05:47] <wgrant> Which it probably doesn't, unless you're on Mars.
[05:48] <wallyworld_> but won't it still timeout if i suspend the laptop to move rooms etc
[05:48] <wallyworld_> so those figures are bogus
[05:48] <wgrant> Ah, if you run your IRC client on a laptop, indeed.
[05:48] <wallyworld_> i only use my laptop
[05:49] <wallyworld_> i honestly have no issue with tpg
[05:49] <wallyworld_> bigjools: found a slab of meat yet?
[05:49] <wgrant> people I know who used to use them got terrible speeds and dropouts.
[05:49] <bigjools> wallyworld_: oh yes
[05:49] <StevenK> And some beer?
[05:49] <bigjools> Boags
[05:50] <wallyworld_> wgrant: my speed is around 10Mbps and I'm a fair way from the exchange
[05:50] <bigjools> and some sparking rose
[05:50] <StevenK> Is it room temperature beer? :-P
[05:50] <wallyworld_> hahah
[05:50] <bigjools> StevenK: who tf drinks that!
[05:50] <bigjools> cellar temperature is more ideal
[05:50] <StevenK> The British, if you believe the jokes
[05:50] <wgrant> wallyworld_: Not bad.
[05:51] <wallyworld_> i guess i'm one of the lucky ones
[05:51] <bigjools> at least we have beer, rather than watery piss
[05:51] <wallyworld_> you mean Fosters? you lot own that now
[05:51] <poolie> 38C beer would certainly be unpleasant
[05:51] <bigjools> I am proud to say I've never drank Fosters
[05:51] <poolie> StevenK, i bought a Vornado fan last year when my ac was broken
[05:51] <bigjools> lager.... <shudder>
[05:51] <poolie> it is very quiet and compact
[05:53] <bigjools> http://lifehacker.com/181510/make-your-own-air-conditioner
[05:54] <poolie> mm
[05:54] <poolie> switching to using only my laptop helped tooo
[05:54] <StevenK> bigjools: Except the link in that article is a 404
[05:54] <bigjools> StevenK: ha!
[05:54] <poolie> also "How to Work from Home Without Going Insane"
[05:57]  * StevenK stabs lg.com
[06:06] <bigjools> wallyworld_: I was up at Chapel Hills today
[06:06] <bigjools> s/s$//
[06:06] <wallyworld_> how'd it go?
[06:06] <bigjools> great school
[06:06] <bigjools> nice area
[06:07] <bigjools> some lovely houses!
[06:07] <StevenK> bigjools: s/s$// doesn't match anything :-P
[06:07] <bigjools> StevenK: silence
[06:08] <wallyworld_> bigjools: yes, it is a great area. Mt Cootha being so close is a bonus for sure too
[06:08] <bigjools> wallyworld_: yeah, some great trails
[06:09]  * wallyworld_ has to take the poor dog to the vet now to get his tail looked at
[06:10] <bigjools> wallyworld_: oops
[06:10] <bigjools> so, I buy a $19 recharge for a prepay SIM and end up with $50 credit. This is odd.
[06:10] <wallyworld_> bigjools: we can't stand the blood being cast everywhere when he wags it. it looks like a scene from CSI
[06:10] <StevenK> bigjools: Sounds right.
[06:11] <wallyworld_> bigjools: that $50 is an inflated value
[06:11] <bigjools> on the plus side, 1GB of data
[06:11] <wallyworld_> you really need to look at how many minutes talk time it buys you
[06:11] <wallyworld_> it's very confusing here in Oz
[06:11] <bigjools> or how much data it gives me so I can use Skype :)
[06:11] <wallyworld_> yep :-)
[06:11] <StevenK> bigjools: Which provider?
[06:11]  * wallyworld_ goes to round up the dog
[06:12] <bigjools> StevenK: Virgin Mobile
[06:12] <StevenK> Ah, neat.
[06:12] <StevenK> There is a "Virgin Usage Meter" app on the market too
[06:12] <bigjools> oh cool
[06:12] <bigjools> well, the phone has built-in meters
[06:13] <StevenK> That one screen-scrapes from Virgin's site just in case the two don't agree
[06:13] <bigjools> StevenK: I just realised the humour in "Virgin Usage Meter"
[06:13] <StevenK> Haha
[06:14] <poolie> :)
[06:14] <StevenK> Are you going to rate it down for not doing what the app title suggested? :-P
[06:45] <wgrant> Hmm, now, the ultimate question.
[06:46] <wgrant> Did he suspend his laptop, or was it Telstra...
[06:47] <StevenK> Haha
[07:19] <bigjools> Bigpong is up and down like a whore's knickers
[07:23] <wgrant> Like I said.
[07:28] <stub> Must suck when your cow-orkers in the third world have better 'Net than you do.
[07:30] <stub> bigjools: You on holiday or is this a more permanent move?
[07:30] <bigjools> stub: yes
[07:31] <bigjools> stub: holiday for now...
[07:33] <jtv> stub: don't forget—cow-orkers _in disaster zones_ in the third world.
[07:34] <nigelb> bigjools: Where are you? :)
[07:34] <nigelb> i.e. where are you vacationing
[07:34] <nigelb> jtv: cow-workers?
[07:34] <bigjools> nigelb: Brisbane
[07:34] <nigelb> ;)
[07:34] <nigelb> bigjools: Neat. :)
[07:35] <jtv> nigelb: yes, people who ork cows.
[07:35] <nigelb> heh
[07:35] <bigjools> I ate a cow last night
[07:35] <nigelb> o.O
[07:36] <nigelb> is that a figure of speech?
[07:36] <bigjools> not at all - you should have seen the size of the steak I had
[07:36] <jtv> nigelb: how so?  Julian ate a cow last night, and presumably used a nife and an ork.
[07:36] <jtv> It all makes so much sense.
[07:36] <nigelb> jtv: You are milking this for all its worth aren't ya? :D
[07:36] <bigjools> jtv: BA-DUM-TISH!
[07:36] <nigelb> bigjools: Gah, Now I want steak.
[07:37] <jtv> nigelb: Ooh I see what you did there, with the cow theme!
[07:37] <nigelb> This is turning into a cow-themed punland.
[07:38] <stub> jtv: Well, I was thinking on New Zealand. But I guess it holds true here too ;)
[07:38] <jtv> :)
[07:39] <nigelb> I remember a joke sometime back to the likes of "Next time you take a vacation, go to an island with poor internet conectivity. But you already live in New Zealand"
[07:41] <nigelb> jtv: We'll be in closer time-zomes next weekend!
[07:41] <jtv> Oh, right!
[07:41] <nigelb> I'm sad I can't make it to Bangkok yet :|
[08:30] <wgrant> stub: Thanks.
[08:30] <wgrant> lifeless: Want to recheck https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/observer-db/+merge/81104?
[08:52] <adeuring> good morning
[08:53] <jtv> hi adeuring
[08:53] <adeuring> hi jtv!
[08:54] <jtv> StevenK, wgrant: I'm trying to get back into bug 876594.  That unwanted rejection is generated by UploadHandler, right?
[08:54] <_mup_> Bug #876594: rejected builds for synced packages send mail to Debian maintainer <derivation> <qa-untestable> <regression> <Launchpad itself:In Progress by jtv> < https://launchpad.net/bugs/876594 >
[09:16] <mrevell> Morning
[09:19] <jtv> hi mrevell
[09:20] <nigelb> Morning mrevell
[09:20] <mrevell> Hey there
[10:34] <stub1> rvba: https://code.launchpad.net/~stub/launchpad/oops/+merge/82119
[10:34] <rvba> stub: k
[10:47] <mvo> https://dev.launchpad.net/PatchSubmission <- this page says that step #1 is to go to #launchpad-reviews, but that channel is apparently no longer in use - could someone update the wiki please (it looks like I don't have permissions to do so)
[10:48] <rvba> mvo: sure, I'll do it.
[10:48] <mvo> thanks!
[10:51] <mvo> so I worked on lp:~mvo/launchpad/maintenance-check-precise to make sure that the "apt-cache show pkgname" "Supported: 18m" info is accurate for precise, this required some tweaks to the code. I wonder if someone could run the testsuite for me on this branch (or trigger it in ec2 or somesuch). I have a local LP VM, but its really outdated. my QA for the code was simply to ensure that for lucid it produces the same output as it did before
[10:57] <rvba> mvo: Let me have a look.
[10:59] <rvba> mvo: could you please write a MP explaining the rationale for this?
[11:01] <mvo> rvba: sure, I will note in the MP that I have not run the testsuite locally yet
[11:02] <rvba> mvo: cool.
[11:21] <mvo> I put it here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/launchpad/maintenance-check-precise/+merge/82125
[11:21] <mvo> and have some lunch now
[11:21]  * mvo waves
[11:22] <mvo> I set it to WIP as long as no testsuite was run against it
[11:23] <rvba> mvo: you can set the status as "Needs Review". We usually run the test suite (in ec2) after we've reviewing the mp.
[11:27] <rvba> s/reviewing/reviewed/
[11:51] <jelmer> lifeless: hi
[12:00] <rick_h> morning
[12:01] <jelmer> hi rick_h
[12:09] <jtv> Buildbot just failed: hung twisted thread or something along those lines, in the branch puller.
[12:11] <jelmer> fun :(
[13:07] <rvba> Morning benji.
[13:07] <benji> good morning rvba
[14:01] <mvo> rvba: aha, thanks! I set it back to needs-review now
[14:02] <deryck> Morning, all.
[14:03] <rick_h_> howdy
[14:03] <deryck> Hi, rick_h_.  Welcome to Launchpad!
[14:03] <deryck> officially and all ;)
[14:03] <rick_h_> thanks!
[14:04] <deryck> rick_h_, do you have access to the Canonical wiki now?
[14:04] <mrevell> Oh, hey rick_h_, is it your first day? Welcome!
[14:04] <rick_h_> yes, been working through it this morning
[14:04] <rick_h_> couple of glitches, but progressing
[14:04] <deryck> rick_h_, can you point me at the doc you're working through?
[14:05] <rick_h_> sure
[14:07] <abentley> rick_h_: Good morning, and welcome to the squad.
[14:07] <rick_h_> abentley: thanks
[14:07] <jcsackett> morning, folks.
[14:09] <deryck> Morning, jcsackett.
[14:15] <rvba> benji: I'll review jtv's mega lint branch…
[14:22] <benji> rvba: sorry, I was AFK visiting the alter of coffee in my kitchen; yeah that sounds good
[14:22] <jtv> rvba: thanks for picking it up
[14:24] <nigelb> benji: wow, you have an altar for that? Neat.
[14:24] <benji> :)
[14:26] <flacoste> rick_h_: welcome to Launchpad!
[14:26] <deryck> Does anyone know what's up with db-devel failed build?  buildnot is getting on my last nerve.
[14:49] <jtv> allenap: looking at test_stalePidFile.  You've got a comment in there saying it's safe as long as pids don't wrap around… did you mean it's safe as long as pids don't get reused?
[14:51] <rick_h_> thanks flacoste
[14:53] <allenap> jtv: I'll take a look...
[14:54] <allenap> jtv: Yes, but from what I could discover, Linux doesn't reuse pids until the counter wraps.
[14:54] <jtv> allenap: upon consideration I think that's what's meant.  TBH I think the world would fall apart quickly if pids got re-assigned quickly.  :)
[14:55] <allenap> jtv: Indeed! :)
[14:57] <jtv> Call it our dirty little secret.
[14:57] <jtv> Strange thing is, I'm suddenly getting a DeprecationWarning there instead of a UserWarning about deprecation.
[15:13] <deryck> jelmer, hi.  Have you seen the db test failures?  Are these related to your work?
[15:18] <jcsackett> sinzui: are you free to mumble?
[15:19] <sinzui> yes
[15:25] <jelmer> deryck: no, which failures?
[15:25] <jelmer> deryck: I haven't landed anything in quite some time
[15:26] <deryck> jelmer, flacoste thought it might have been your bzr-builder updates.  but now he suspects his own work. ;)
[15:26] <deryck> jelmer, so un-ping.  Sorry. :)
[15:29] <flacoste> deryck: i don't suspect my change at all
[15:29] <flacoste> it is something bzr related
[15:29] <deryck> flacoste, ah, sorry.  I misunderstood.
[15:30] <flacoste> TestPullerMasterIntegration' object has no attribute '_lock_actions'
[15:30] <flacoste> look likes an API change
[15:30] <flacoste> could be poolie change also
[15:30] <flacoste> that run upgrade before tests
[15:34] <jelmer> hmm, I think I've seen that failure before as part of a spurious test failure
[15:34] <jelmer> I'll have a look
[15:34] <jelmer> deryck: do you know for how long this has been failing?
[15:34] <jelmer> or is it just a one-off thing?
[15:35] <deryck> jelmer, we've only had this one failure like this in the builder.
[15:35] <flacoste> https://lpbuildbot.canonical.com/builders/lucid_db_lp
[15:36] <flacoste> deryck: but the these tests always fail for you locally, no?
[15:37] <sinzui> jcsackett, https://code.qastaging.launchpad.net/private-project-test/
[15:37] <deryck> flacoste, I'm trying against current db-devel now to confirm.  I was on an old rev, before the last 4-6 revs, to see a clean state....
[15:37] <deryck> flacoste, and was failing then.  but trying on current tip now.
[15:38] <jelmer> flacoste: thanks
[15:38] <jelmer> I'm pretty sure I've seen this as part of a spurious test failure before
[15:39] <jelmer> not sure what the background of it is though, it seems pretty odd for a simple operation like that to take more than 20 seconds
[15:41] <mrevell> Hey sinzui! On a project-group overview page, should all member projects be listed? If yes, is there a delay between adding a project to a group and it showing up?
[15:42] <nigelb> the launchpad planet could use some love :)
[15:42] <nigelb> Its a pain to look at now :)
[15:43] <sinzui> mrevell, I think there is a 15-60 minute delay. The list is cached since it is prone to timeout
[15:43] <mrevell> alo ^^^ does that help?
[15:43] <mrevell> thanks sinzui
[15:45] <flacoste> i still have this OperationalError: fe_sendauth: no password supplied
[15:45] <flacoste> whenever i attempt to run DatabaseLayer tests
[15:49] <deryck> flacoste, ok, so these tests do pass for me locally running latest db-devel.
[15:49] <deryck> flacoste, should we force the build?
[15:50] <flacoste> deryck: might as well
[15:50] <flacoste> or disable the tests
[15:51] <deryck> flacoste, ok.  thanks.  if it fails again, we can disable.  cool?
[15:51] <flacoste> sure
[15:51] <deryck> ok, thanks
[15:52] <deryck> alright, build force.  land 'em if you got 'em.
[17:14] <flacoste> where are the deployment reports nowadays?
[17:14] <flacoste> http://lpqateam.canonical.com/qa-reports/deployment-stable.html
[17:15] <flacoste> rvba: how is the qa of rev 14289?
[17:15] <rvba> flacoste: I'm on it.
[17:15] <flacoste> rvba: great, thanks
[17:17] <rvba> flacoste: qa-ok
[18:15] <lifeless> good morning
[18:32] <jtv> morning lifeless
[18:32]  * jtv double-takes
[18:32] <jtv> Hmm… morning?
[18:33] <jtv> Stupid timezones.
[18:38] <lifeless> :)
[18:42] <Ronnie> what version of python-launchpadlib is advised. the 1.6.0 from the 10.04.3 repo or the 1.9.9 from pip ?
[18:46] <lifeless> newest you have available is the general recommendation
[18:46] <flacoste> lifeless: would you have any idea where to start debugging http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/738453/
[18:46] <flacoste> lifeless: i suspect i missed a step in the pgbouncer transition
[18:47] <lifeless> flacoste: local?
[18:47] <flacoste> yes
[18:47] <flacoste> i'm basically unable to run any tests invovling the DB
[18:47] <lifeless> well, the fixture sets up phbouncer itself
[18:47] <lifeless> but
[18:47] <lifeless> thats not using pgbouncer, I don't think.
[18:47] <lifeless> I suspect your pg install isn't setup correctly
[18:47] <flacoste> or it might be the oneiric upgrade
[18:48] <lifeless> indeed
[18:48] <flacoste> i don't have anything else than LP in pg
[18:48] <lifeless> what pg version are you runniung with ?
[18:48] <lifeless> or yeah try the initial setup script again
[18:48] <lifeless> launchpad-database-zergage
[18:48] <flacoste> 8.4.8
[18:49] <lifeless> huh
[18:51] <lifeless> does psql launchpad_ftest_template work ?
[18:51] <flacoste> launchpad-database-setup seems to have done the trick
[18:51] <flacoste> the tests are now running
[18:51] <flacoste> thanks
[19:30] <benji> lifeless: I'm wondering why my DB branch (https://code.launchpad.net/~benji/launchpad/bug-877195-db) isn't showing up on http://lpqateam.canonical.com/qa-reports/deployment-db-stable.html and I suspect it's because I forgot to target the original MP to db-stable and resubmitted the MP after you and stub had approved the other and I haven't sought you to approve the new one.  Can you confirm that theory?
[19:31] <lifeless> benji: mp's aren't needed for the deployment report
[19:31] <lifeless> benji: if they are present they are used as an additional source of bug links, is all
[19:32] <lifeless> benji: the deployment report depends on:
[19:32] <lifeless>  - the instance running
[19:32] <lifeless>  - the code being deployed to said instance
[19:32] <lifeless> has your code reached db-stable, and is the running staging revno >= the revno your branch landed in?
[19:35] <benji> lifeless: yes to having reached db-stable, and no to the second (https://staging.launchpad.net reports the revision before mine)
[19:35] <benji> so, I assume that means I need to ask/wait for staging to be updated
[19:37] <lifeless> yes
[19:38] <lifeless> as your rev may be the reason its not deployed (if the patch fails)
[19:38] <lifeless> the logs are on devpad to let you check this
[19:42] <abentley> deryck: has adeuring's feature-flag-in-javascript stuff landed?
[19:42] <adeuring> abentley: I received a positive PQM message at 1900 UTC
[19:43] <adeuring> erm, 1800 UTC
[19:43] <abentley> adeuring: Ah, well if it was today, I'll need to merge devel.
[19:44] <adeuring> abentley: right, it landed just recently -- testfix hassles...
[19:46] <deryck> abentley, what adeuring said ;)  Sorry was otp.
[19:50] <abentley> adeuring: That adds a list of "beta_features" to the IJSONRequestCache?
[19:51] <adeuring> abentley: this list was already been added, but the list is empty by default
[19:52] <abentley> adeuring: I see.  I was hoping for a list of active feature flags, like that at the bottom of the page: Features: {'baselayout.careers_link.disabled': None, 'hard_timeout': None,
[19:52] <adeuring> abentley: that's what you get
[19:53] <abentley> adeuring: where do I get it?
[19:53] <adeuring> but a list, not a dict
[19:53] <adeuring> abentley: enable the feature flag and view any bug listing
[19:53] <abentley> adeuring: So this feature of including feature flags itself is enabled by a feature flag?
[19:53] <adeuring> abentley: well, to acutally see a non-empty list, you need my recent branch
[19:54] <adeuring> abentley: no. Take my branch that landed two hours ago, and enable the LEP feature
[19:55] <abentley> adeuring: And this shows all feature flags, unlike the empty list already present?
[19:55] <adeuring> abentley: it is a bit more complicated:
[19:56] <adeuring> 1. the view needs a non-empty property beta_features, as BugTaskSearchListingView
[19:56] <adeuring> 2. you must enable this feature
[19:56] <abentley> adeuring: So if beta_features is non-empty, it lists all active feature flags?
[19:57] <adeuring> abentley: let's mjumble, that's easier
[19:57] <benji> lifeless: since I can find no reference to my revision (11143) in the log (sourcherry/2011-11-11-staging_restore.log), I assume no attempt has been made to deploy it to staging; what is the best course of action to get it deployed?
[19:58] <lifeless> benji: how long ago did it pass buildbot ?
[19:58] <lifeless> benji: if < 1 hour, wait.
[19:58] <lifeless> if > - check with los a
[19:59] <benji> lifeless: it got buildbot love on Friday, so I'll talk to a losa about it
[20:06] <benji> ooh, I found something lifeless: the log for deploying the revision (sourcherry/2011-11-12-staging_restore.log) is very unhappy but in a way that is meaningless to me.  The first (real) error seems to be this bit: https://pastebin.canonical.com/55752/
[20:12] <deryck> abentley, adeuring -- I'm going to change work locations here in about 20 -30 minutes and will be offline for 30 minutes while I do.
[20:12] <adeuring> ok
[20:12] <abentley> deryck: ack
[20:14] <rick_h_> benji: can you do me the fav of checking https://code.launchpad.net/~rharding/launchpad/bugfix_814696/+merge/82214
[20:14] <rick_h_> and hand holding and all that new guy stuff :)
[20:15] <benji> rick_h_: gladly
[20:15] <abentley> deryck: http://people.canonical.com/~abentley/visible-information.png
[20:16] <lifeless> benji: ahha
[20:16] <lifeless> benji: slony 1 vs slony 2 restore, I bet
[20:16] <deryck> abentley, oh wow.
[20:16] <deryck> abentley, is that chrome or firefox?
[20:16] <abentley> deryck: FF
[20:16] <lifeless> benji: this is the first staging restore post slony 2 AFAIK
[20:16] <abentley> deryck: It actually looks kinda cool, but...
[20:16] <deryck> abentley, ok, ack.  I'll take a look here shortly.
[20:16] <benji> lifeless: interesting
[20:16] <lifeless> abentley: if that was deliberate, wow :)
[20:21] <benji> rick_h_: looks good; we're not friendly to the tab characters though, so you should replace it with spaces (you can clean up the other tabs in that general area while you're at it if you want)
[20:22] <rick_h_> ok, will do
[20:26] <benji> rick_h_: I can't decide if that usb-only monitor on your blog is awesome or insane; possibly both
[20:26] <rick_h_> benji: I'll bring it in Jan
[20:26] <rick_h_> the insane part is now I'm thinking about getting another :)
[20:27] <benji> heh
[20:27] <benji> rick_h_: unfortunately I won't be there in January, fortunately I'll be distracted by having a new baby
[20:27] <rick_h_> oh, congrats
[20:27] <rick_h_> know how that goes
[20:28] <rick_h_> ok, so I removed all the tabs, found one in another file and fixed that for the why not factor
[20:28] <rick_h_> where would I go from here?
[20:28] <rick_h_> while the diff is regen'ing
[20:28] <benji> sounds good, just push the tweaks and you can mark the MP as approved
[20:29] <benji> if there were more substantial changes you could ask for another review
[20:29] <rick_h_> k
[20:29] <rick_h_> you marked it as "Approve" so what am I marking as approved?
[20:30] <abentley> adeuring: So it turns out that list is actually a list of feature flags that have been used, rather than all feature flags.
[20:31] <abentley> adeuring: the idea of re-purposing your data is now more appealing.
[20:32] <adeuring> abentley: even better :)
[20:33] <benji> rick_h_: at the top
[20:33] <rick_h_> ah, got it thanks
[21:29] <adeuring> deryck: could you review this mp: https://code.launchpad.net/~adeuring/launchpad/bug-sorting/+merge/82217 ?
[21:29] <deryck> adeuring, indeed, I can.
[21:30] <adeuring> deryck: greatm thanks!
[21:37] <deryck> adeuring, there's no diff on the mp.
[21:37] <adeuring> oh...
[21:38] <adeuring> deryck: gahh... did a "bzr push" before a "bzr commit". The current version of the branhc is not pushed to LP
[21:43] <deryck> adeuring, ah, now I see a diff.
[21:46] <deryck> adeuring, r=me
[21:46] <adeuring> deryck: great, thanks!
[21:47] <deryck> adeuring, I'm not crazy about that isinstance stuff, but I see that's the pattern in that bit.
[21:49] <adeuring> deryck: do you mean the "isinstance(col, tuple)"? I know that this is duplicated, but to together iwth the "if orderby_col.startswith("-")" we need to handle for cases. Hard to not have some sort of duplication
[21:50] <huwshimi> Morning
[21:50] <adeuring> morning huwshimi
[21:52] <deryck> morning huwshimi
[21:52] <deryck> adeuring, it's not the duplication.  just doing type checks in general also bother me.
[21:52] <deryck> s/also/always/
[21:54] <adeuring> deryck: I understand ;) I could change the other entries in the mapping, making the isinstance() calls obsolete, but I'll postpone this to the next branch related to bug search sorting
[21:55] <deryck> adeuring, ok, cool.  It wasn't a big deal to me since the surrounding code was like this; just noting it.
[21:55] <deryck> adeuring, But I welcome later updates to clean this up if time allows.
[22:15] <sinzui> StevenK, lp/soyuz/model/archive.py addArchiveDependency() looks promising and lp/bugs/model/bug.py addNomination() is helpful too. But about this last example, maybe an losa cannot fix a nomination
[22:18] <wgrant> >>> urlparse.urljoin('https://api.qastaging.launchpad.net/', 'devel', 'foo/bar')
[22:18] <wgrant> 'https://api.qastaging.launchpad.net/devel'
[22:18] <wgrant> jcsackett: ^^ there's your problem
[22:20] <flacoste> lifeless: do you have any reservation on turning on incremental diff on for everyon?
[22:20] <flacoste> (see email thread)
[22:22] <wgrant> flacoste: Incremental diffs, or the inline MP diffs?
[22:22] <wgrant> They are different things for very similar purposes.
[22:22] <flacoste> inlin MP diffs
[22:22] <flacoste> which is displaying an incremental diff
[22:23] <lifeless> flacoste: so, I know that loggerhead times out
[22:23] <wgrant> Right, but there's the separate incremental MP diff feature.
[22:23] <lifeless> its an inconsistent UI
[22:23] <lifeless> s/UI/UX/
[22:23] <lifeless> flacoste: its probably ok to turn on
[22:23] <wgrant> It also doesn't have a spinner or error handling at all.
[22:23] <lifeless> flacoste: fortunately I should be able to do timeout oopses for loggerhead in a few hours work \o/
[22:23] <wgrant> And it's blue instead of green.;
[22:27] <deryck> rick_h_ is fixing the green link bug as his first bug fix.
[22:27] <deryck> hi wgrant and lifeless, btw :)
[22:27] <thumper> hi deryck
[22:27] <deryck> hi thumper
[22:27] <lifeless> deryck: hi :)
[22:27] <wgrant> Evening deryck.
[22:51] <wgrant> lifeless: Could you have a final look over https://code.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/observer-db/+merge/81104 before I land it?
[22:52] <lifeless> k