semitonesthat would be cool03:17
semitonestoo bad he left03:17
=== ericm|ubuntu is now known as ericm-afk
=== smb` is now known as smb
smbmorning (.+)08:46
=== ericm-afk is now known as ericm
* cking kills pulseaudio and tries some different tweaks09:51
ckingapw, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerManagement09:58
* RAOF should do some more controlled tests, but that seems to drop t420s power consumption ~4W (down to a more respectable 11-12W totally idle)09:59
apwRAOF, which is your entry in the table ?10:03
RAOFThere isn't one yet.  See point "should do some more controlled tests".10:03
apwahh :)10:03
apwRAOF, its very early hear10:04
apwhere even, bah10:04
RAOFI wonder if that issue applies to this x200s, too.  Although it can't save *that* much power; dropping power consumption 4W here would drop it down to 4W in total, which seems a bit ambitious :)10:04
apwRAOF, but 1w on there would be mamoth10:07
RAOFIt might get me back up to >10h runtime on the 9cell, yeah.10:07
* cking rummages around for his power meter10:32
DavieyWhat is the current state of realtime kernel?11:24
Daviey(morning btw)11:24
tjaaltonRAOF: which screen brightness setting did you have?11:28
tjaaltonwhen testing the t420s11:28
Davieyapw / cking: Do you know the status of -realtime?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RealTime , suggests -lowlatency is the focus.. but TBH, i don't understand the difference.11:29
apwrealtime hasn't existed for some time has it ?11:29
apwDaviey, realtime is presumably the -rt patchset, which lags the main kernel by many releases11:30
apwDaviey, lowlatency is about using upstream features is differnet configurations to get the best latency response they can11:30
Davieyapw: so TL;DR suggests we don't have a good story in that area?11:30
apwTL;DR ?11:35
tjaalton"too long; didn't read" :)11:38
tjaaltonRAOF: 9,2W here, with rc6 enabled too, though the brightness is ~60%11:40
tjaaltonturning bt off (0,5W), min_power for sata (0,5W) and brightness to minimum drops the estimate to ~7,1W :P11:51
tjaaltoncan't get lower than 6,2W12:08
apwdoes anyone know if we had a launchpad rollout recently?  i am seeing new delete buttons next to tasks and nominations12:35
Davieyapw: that was on planet.ubuntu.com as a new feature12:36
apwoh what does it do12:36
Davieyapw: if i add a task for FOOBAR project by accident, previously all you could do was mark it invalid. Now you can remove it.12:37
apwany idea what it means for a nomination, will it remove all precice ones or just the one on the specific task12:38
diwicno more "the NULL project" I assume :-)12:38
Davieyapw: http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/removing-a-project-from-a-shared-bug-report12:38
Davieyapw: NFI, try it on https://staging.launchpad.net/12:39
* apw is tempted to hit it on production just to see what explodes12:44
apwDaviey, and anyhow as usual anything i click on on staging leads to an oops12:46
apwDaviey, oh and it doesn't have the code for that rolled out anyhow12:47
=== smb` is now known as smb
ogra_apw, do you remember the conclusions from our hallway hack session about dropping the initrd ? was it "kernel team rolls uuid support into the in-kernel tub 13:29
ogra_... into the in-kernel-stub initrd, then "stopwatch boot time diffs on different arches with that change"13:30
apwthere is cirtainly a 'comparison of the three no-initrd, small initrd =mod, and fat' to produce13:40
ogra_right, i'm just thinking about how to turn it into proper WIs13:41
apwthere should citainly be one to say do that comparison, and perhaps one to investigate use of the internal initrd13:42
apwi suspect maintainance of that is so fraught with complexity its not worth it13:43
ogra_would it be ok to write "rtg: to provide a kernel with uuid support in the internal initrd for measuring" ?13:43
apwi'd just put canonical-kernel-team on those and we can figure out who13:43
ogra_i can do all the measuring items and assign them to me13:43
ogra_would we need to make the kernel learn a new cmdline option ? noinitrd will likely also skip the internal one i guess13:45
ogra_(or wont it ?)13:45
apwinitrd handling is all grub side14:00
apwbootloader side, we only use one if its passed14:00
ogra_apw, but how does the kernel know if it should use the in kernel initrd or no initrd ?14:07
apwit always uses the internal initrd, just mosttimes it is empty14:26
apwunless there is one passed from outside14:26
ogra_thx :)14:29
* apw runs to toolstation, seems one of our switches i about to fall apart and expose live wires !14:34
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
* smb looks over to apw, wondering whether the curse is spreading now...15:11
apwheh yeah, i'd not connected that things here were all falling appart cause the were house ones15:12
apwbut clearly smb is to blame15:12
smbAlways a pleasure to pass on the fun. :-P15:12
apwheh thanks15:14
apwheh nice, my battery is so flat that gsd is reporting it as not-present15:35
smbhm, is it present in the acpi stat?15:36
apwyep and now it has a charge of != 0, its now present in gsb too15:36
smbmaybe a feature... a battery without charge is not really present... :-P15:37
_rubeni wonder if it'd detect my fully charged battery, which is not within my laptop currently ;)15:52
ppisati-CONFIG_BOOT_PRINTK_DELAY=y -- why do we have this on?15:56
smbto allow using the option iirc15:57
smbit allows setting the delay when y (does not do any delay by default)15:57
ppisatiah ok16:00
* ppisati is having fun with the omap4 config sync/review16:00
apwppisati, sounds riviting16:02
apwcking, i added a notes column to your sheet16:02
apwcking, and i am updating and charging a couple of my laptops to test16:03
ckingapw, yeah, good note to add, nice to flag up broken results16:09
apwcking, this fix does what enable alpm by defualt ?17:14
ckingalpm? ASPM don't you mean?17:15
apwcking, possibly :)17:15
ckingalpm is sata related17:15
apwand what is aspm17:16
ckingASPM is the PCIe power tweaks17:16
smbToo many STLBs17:16
ckingif ALPM is borked you may lose data17:16
smbSTLAs even17:16
ckingALPM = Aggressive Link Power management for SATA17:17
apwcking, anyhow does nothing for my acer :(17:17
smbcking, Aggressive or Advanced as well?17:17
ckingAggressively Advanced?!17:17
apwcking, does your version number appear in version_signature?17:18
smbapw, As far as I understand the change it would only disable that now if the bios had enabled it and os is granted control17:18
apwand if not, how did you arrange that exactly17:18
ckingapw, smb was discussing the version signature with me just now, seems like I foobar'd it17:19
smbapw, look for _OSC in your dmesg17:19
apwit is very confusing that you managed to elide your +foo ... and makes it hard to know if i am testing the right thing17:19
apwi see those17:19
ckingapw, I know, I failed, this is what happens when I rush things over saturday :-(17:20
apwjust amazed it is actually possible17:20
smbapw, I was surprised as well17:20
ckingnothing surprised me17:20
apwnormally one has to work pretty hard to stop it being in there17:21
smbcking, good point is, do you know whether aspm on/off would yield any message and which?17:22
ckingsmb, theoretically yes, but I dunno off the top of my head17:23
smbOn my netbook here _OSC fails, but I don't know whether it would have the bit enabled or not. Well, from the data it does not seem to have17:25
smbapw, You can check whether your current kernel was compiled on Sat. ;)17:26
ckingsmb, what do you mean by _OSC fails?17:26
smbcking, pci0000:00: Unable to request _OSC control (_OSC support mask: 0x0f)17:27
ckingah, yes, that that then disables ASPM17:27
smbcking, Currently. With the patch I would assume it would be left alone if the bios had enabled it17:28
ckingsmb, I believe that's the idea behind it17:28
smbSo this was taken, running the Sat. kernel. But power usage seems to be unchanged. Just was wondering whther there would be a piece of msg saying something... Hm, though that would only appear in the unpatched kernel...17:30
jjohansensmb:  printk(KERN_INFO"ACPI FADT declares the system doesn't support PCIe ASPM, so disable it\n");17:30
smbjjohansen, Cool. Thanks. Re-installing the original kernel to cross check17:31
jjohansensmb: also not this patch won't fix everybody, only some of those with broken bioses17:32
ckingsorry, this is hard to follow at the mo, my kids are demanding my attention17:32
jjohansencking: when don't they :)17:32
apw"do they blend?"17:32
ckingbut the gist is that some broken BIOSes caused the old code to put the system into a sub-optimal state17:32
smbapw is a bit harsh17:32
smbjjohansen, Right, I just want to make sure data taken is consistent17:33
mjg59It seems that the expected behaviour is for Linux to *never* touch the ASPM bits unless we get _OSC control17:33
ckingmjg59, where is the microsoft presentation you referred to in the patch?17:33
mjg59Right now if the firmware sets the "Do not use ASPM" bit  we clear ASPM state17:34
mjg59Which involves touching the ASPM bits17:34
mjg59It seems that we shouldn't be doing that17:34
apwahh one of those subtle wordings catching us again17:34
mjg59There is no wording17:34
apwdeep joy17:35
mjg59Platform expectations here are entirely undocumented17:35
ckingwell, it's kind of nebulous isn't it and it's not really mentioned in any specs we've got17:35
mjg59cking: If you just google for "pci express in depth for windows vista and beyond" you should find it17:35
ckingso theoretically we should see some platforms do well out of this patch, while others no change whatsoever and the likelyhood of worse behaviour is nil isn't it?17:36
ckingah google my frend17:36
mjg59In theory17:36
ckingwell, so far the minimal crowd sourcing results look that way too17:37
mjg59The machine that triggered the original patch /seems/ to give full _OSC control17:37
mjg59Which would mean it still works with this patch17:37
apwcking, where is my automation *stamp*17:38
ckingapw, what do you mean?17:39
* apw is bored of oding this testing by hand already on 2 machines17:39
ckingapw, lazy git ;-)17:39
smbapw, You have not written it, yet?17:40
ckingI'm writing some code right now, I've got netfilter process monitoring and the ACPI battery monitoring in, just need to tidy it up.17:41
apwcking, this machine here, i've plugged the  power back in, and am still getting acpi estimates17:41
apwthat seems unexpected17:41
ckingbad powerflop behaviour perhaps?17:42
apwmost likey17:42
ckingthis is why I'm hacking my own code, to ensure it's done right17:42
ckingor more right ;-)17:42
ogra_whats the superlative of right ?17:43
ogra_rightest ? :)17:44
ckingnot more right for sure17:44
ckingeven righter17:44
ogra_so right :)17:44
ckingmore rightish17:44
apwless ridingcrop perhaps17:45
krauti got a strange issue with the 3.0.x kernel. i wrote a daemon which watches if network devices are available with the kernel mac-table17:46
krautafter i upgraded to 3.0.x the timeout "gc_stale_time" doesn't as supposed to17:46
krautgc_stale_time is set to 60 but it takes much more time until the entry wents from "STALE" to "FAILED".17:47
apwthe entry in which table ?17:47
krautcould anybody tell me what changed from 2.6 to 3.0?17:47
krautapw: arp17:47
krautroot@exodus:/proc# ip -4 neigh show dev br0 | grep " lladdr"17:47
kraut192.168.1.12 lladdr 00:23:76:4f:8e:3b STALE17:47
apwwhich kernel version is it confirmed working as you expected ?17:48
krautmeh, deleted anyone because of diskusage17:49
krautthe last one from the last ubuntu version17:49
krautthis one f.e.17:49
krautthe entry above is still on "STALE" by the way :/17:50
apwso since Lucid ?17:50
apwno 31 isn't anything17:50
krautcan't remeber all the "code names" ;)17:50
krautwith 11.04 everything was fine, with 11.11 not.17:50
krautor 11.10 better said17:50
apwok so 2.6.38 then17:51
krauthmm. can't really tell. from dpkg -l it must be 2.6.31-21?17:51
apwsmb, did we release with .31 in anything?  karmic maybe ?17:51
krautah, i think i purged the old packages so i can't figure out with dpkg -l17:52
* ogra_ doesnt think it is a kernel prob ...17:52
smbapw, No, except maybe he is on arm17:52
apwkraut, is this imx51 ?17:52
krautogra_: i'm not really sure weither it's a kernel issue or not17:52
krautbut as i remember the arp table is a kernel "feature" and i think there is anywhere anyhow an issue :/17:52
ogra_i can use the command here on my ac100 and get STALE on oneiric with .38 ... if i try it on my x86 laptop under natty with .38 i dont get the STALE17:53
krautapw: lmx51?17:53
krautLinux exodus 3.0.0-12-generic #20-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 7 14:50:42 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux17:53
* ogra_ would suspect the ip command to have changed here, rather than the kernel17:53
apwok so if it worked on 11.04 which was natty, then the kernel would have been a 2.6.38 kernel17:53
krautand no, it's not an issue with the hostname ;)17:53
apwand from there to 3.0 there are only 4 commits to arp17:53
apwnone of which sound anything to do with state handling17:54
krautfrom /proc/net/arp:17:54
kraut192.168.1.11     0x1         0x2         38:e7:d8:de:bd:5d     *        br017:54
krautand 0x2 is STALE IMHO17:54
krautroot@exodus:/proc# cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/neigh/default/gc_17:55
krautgc_interval    gc_stale_time  gc_thresh1     gc_thresh2     gc_thresh3     17:55
krautis gc_thresh new?17:55
* ogra_ would suggest looking at the changelog of iproute 17:57
apwits curtainly true that iproute has changed a lot in oneirc17:59
krauti don't think it's an issue with ip-utils because /proc/net/arp shows me the same issue?18:00
ogra_ogra@horus:~$ zgrep -i ARP /usr/share/doc/iproute/changelog.Debian.gz 18:00
ogra_          Update ARP header type table18:00
apwcking, this is hopeless, the powertop interval changes randomly depending on how the values change18:03
apw10s 15 45 sometimes18:03
ckingapw, now you see why I'm hacking up something more useful18:04
apwi am more wondering what use any of the results are given this behaviour18:04
ckingapw, they are limited, but will hopefully show up any seriously bad power issues or improvements18:07
ckinghence, that's why I'm getting some proper kit18:07
apwproper kit is approriate, but something more usefult for 'us' would be good18:08
ckingyep, but once I can calibrate typical ACPI results against real world power usage and make powertop like tool we will be in a better shape, but this is only day #1 of the project so progress is limited so far ;-)18:09
krautfrom /usr/include/linux/neighbour.h the flag 0x2 in /proc/net/arp means REACHABLE so i think it's still a kernel issue18:11
smbcking, The only "downside" seems to be that external kit can only gather power consumption while plugged into ac, while acpi only gives you the consumption when on battery...18:11
apwkraut, well we'll need an accurate kernel version where its behaving different to work out where to look18:12
apwkraut, from what you've told me there doen't look to be any significant changes at all between the two versions18:12
ckingsmb, well, I can take these machines apart you know...18:13
smbcking, You even might succeed in putting them back together. :) I may not succeed on that part. 18:14
apwcking, nothing i've tested so far sees any benefit18:14
ckingapw, it has been beneficial, now you see why I'm doing this over the next few months and you're not.18:16
apwcking, oh i know why you are doing it :)  i don't have the patience :)18:17
krautapw: that's not so easy because i can't downgrade that way :/18:18
apwkraut, you should be able to run the older kernel with teh current userspace generally18:18
krautif i didn't deleted it, that wouldn't be a problem^^18:19
apwyou can get it back from the launchpad librian18:19
krautcan't i add that one to my sources.list?18:24
krautdeb https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/linux oneiric main18:24
apwthat sounds dangerous18:25
apwoh that, no that isn't an archive18:25
hallynhoping to test the new power-saving oneiric kernel today, but - I'm curious, does anyone have an idea offhand on whether th elucid kernel would be even still more battery-friendly?18:28
krautso should i take this one? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/natty/+source/linux/2.6.38-13.52/+files/linux_2.6.38.orig.tar.gz18:28
krauti think i finish for today. i'm fed up :/18:31
krautthanks for helping so far!18:34
ckingapw, so I want to make my power measuring tool skip a reading if it sees processes wakeup/die. do you think that's a sane idea?18:48
ckings/wakeup/fork or exec or exit/18:49
apwmy experience is more than one after are affected, i wonder if we could just consider restarting18:49
apwbut dropping one or more is not unreasonable perhaps18:49
ckingI've now got a vmstat like output including average + stddev power data18:50
ckinggonna sleep on the this and tinker some more tomorrow18:50
apwcking, sounds planwise18:50
ckingbeen reading the power meter manual, it's a nice bit of kit18:51
ckingjust hope I don't blow it up18:51
apwcking, stay away from smb18:53
ckinghe's had his fair share of dead H/W18:53
apwand i realise the switch which just broke and tried to kill me, was one he has been using18:55
apwjust saying18:55
* apw wanders off19:10
smosersmb, around ?20:42
redzarftrying to rebuild lucid kernel on amazon ec2, but it's not building the image deb file (only headers, docs, tools)23:26
redzarfany ideas?23:26
redzarfkernel version is linux-ec2_2.6.32-319.3923:27
GrueMasterAnyone know what happened to linux-ti-omap4: 3.0.0-1206.12 ?  I tested it in proposed last week, and it is marked now as fix-released.  The source and meta are on the server, but not the kernel deb.23:49
GrueMasterFor oneiric.23:49

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