[08:00] <amithkk> Hey cdbs
[08:00] <amithkk> :)
[16:01] <ara> Hello!
[16:01] <jedimike> hi!
[16:02] <roadmr> hola!
[16:02] <ara> OK, let's get started :)
[16:02] <ara> #startmeeting
[16:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 14 16:02:22 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[16:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[16:02] <ara> Agenda:
[16:02] <ara> Moving this meeting to bi-weekly? -- ara
[16:02] <ara> Checkbox Oneiric SRU -- roadmr
[16:02] <ara> Ubuntu Friendly next deployment -- jedimike
[16:02] <ara> AOB
[16:02]  * ara have put items for other people there :D
[16:02] <ara> #topic Moving this meeting to bi-weekly? -- ara
[16:03] <ara> OK, so I have been wondering if it'd make sense to move this meeting to a biweekly cadence
[16:03] <ara> It made sense to have them weekly when we were rushing to get the beta release out
[16:03] <jedimike> o/
[16:03] <brendand> o/
[16:04] <ara> now that everything is moving to a more normal pace, shall we move to a biweekly one?
[16:04] <ara> ..
[16:04] <ara> jedimike, go ahead
[16:04] <roadmr> o/
[16:04] <jedimike> i agree
[16:04] <jedimike> ..
[16:04] <ara> brendand?
[16:05] <brendand> we should, unless we find in future that we are getting to many items to discuss in one meeting. but the chances of this happening are very low
[16:05] <brendand> ...
[16:05] <ara> roadmr?
[16:06] <roadmr> Do consider that things slowed down because of a) the release and b) UDS. I'd probably prefer to wait a couple of weeks to see what "normal" attendance looks like
[16:06] <roadmr> but if we're bringing this to a vote, I'm sure the 2-weekers will prevail, and I'm not vehemently opposed, we can just as easily go 2-week and then switch back to weekly if it's too long
[16:06] <roadmr> ..
[16:07] <ara> It is just not a matter of attendance in my opinion, but of development pace
[16:07] <ara> ..
[16:08] <brendand> o/
[16:08] <ara> brendand, yes
[16:09] <brendand> attendance isn't really the factor so much as agenda length. apart from this item we have only two agenda items and two weeks ago we had one
[16:09] <cr3> o/
[16:09] <brendand> ...
[16:09] <ara> cr3, go ahead, please
[16:10] <cr3> won't making the meetings bi-weekly affect attendance negatively by lack of mementum?
[16:10] <cr3> ..
[16:11] <ara> o/
[16:11] <roadmr> ara go ahead :)
[16:11] <ara> I guess that's the risk, but lack of content can affect negatively as well
[16:11] <ara> ..
[16:12] <ara> shall we defer this to the mailing list?
[16:13] <roadmr> o/
[16:13] <bladernr> o/
[16:13] <ara> roadmr
[16:13] <roadmr> I'd like to see this discussed on the mailing list,
[16:13] <roadmr> that way we also get the ML moving a bit :)
[16:13] <roadmr> ..
[16:13] <ara> bladernr, your turn
[16:13] <cr3> roadmr: any excuse to generate traffic on the mailing list is all good :)
[16:13] <bladernr> I'm just +1-ing the mailing list... I'd imagine there are more people there that may not have been able to make this meeting who'd want to have input on this
[16:14] <bladernr> ..
[16:14] <ara> brendand, jedimike: fine with discussing this at the ml?
[16:14] <jedimike> ara: yup
[16:15]  * brendand is
[16:15] <ara> #action ara to send an email to the mailing list about the cadence of the meeting
[16:15] <meetingology> ACTION: ara to send an email to the mailing list about the cadence of the meeting
[16:15] <ara> cool! let's move on to a non meta-topic :)
[16:15] <ara> #topic Checkbox Oneiric SRU -- roadmr
[16:16] <ara> roadmr, all yours :P
[16:16] <roadmr> thanks!
[16:16] <roadmr> In order to take care of the most painful checkbox issues in Oneiric, an SRU will be published. It's preferable to do this soon, to avoid a lot of fixes piling up, which can slow things down.
[16:16] <roadmr> The list of bugs scheduled for the 0.12.9 release of checkbox is here:
[16:16] <roadmr> https://launchpad.net/checkbox/+milestone/0.12.9
[16:17] <roadmr> If you can take a look at the unfixed bugs and propose a solution that would be appreciated.
[16:17] <ara> #link https://launchpad.net/checkbox/+milestone/0.12.9
[16:17] <roadmr> Also keep in mind that per SRU procedure, the fixes have to be *published* (i.e. Fix Released) on Precise - so we need to take into account the time it takes to publish checkbox 0.13 on P and then backport the SRUable fixes to 0.12.
[16:17] <roadmr> Ideally we should have a cutoff date for the 0.12.9 fixes
[16:17] <roadmr> after which we'd publish 0.13 to P and get it tested
[16:18] <roadmr> and then after a reasonable testing time, backport the SRUable bugs and get the SRU process rolling
[16:18] <ara> o/
[16:18] <brendand> o/
[16:18] <roadmr> hopefully I'm not missing anything here, so any ideas or proposals on the dates, or stuff I may be missing?
[16:18] <roadmr> ..
[16:19] <roadmr> ara go
[16:19] <ara> OK, so I think the list is complete enough for a first SRU in Oneiric
[16:20] <ara> So I would go for it, and try to get as many as possible in trunk
[16:20] <ara> unless you guys know any other high/critical bug that we should be adding
[16:20] <ara> ..
[16:20] <roadmr> brendand your turn
[16:21] <brendand> strictly speaking, SRUs should be for issues which affect the stability of the application, so i'm concerned about getting some of the test wording fixes in
[16:21] <brendand> i guess we can try
[16:21] <brendand> as for dates
[16:22] <brendand> i think in terms of adding bugs to the list, we should aim for tomorrow (i.e. i think it's complete but just incase we missed any)
[16:22] <brendand> ...
[16:23] <roadmr> o/
[16:23] <ara> roadmr, go!
[16:23] <roadmr> hehe :) well I think we could take today to ask about the string fixes
[16:23] <roadmr> instead of just trying to sneak it in
[16:24] <ara> o/
[16:24] <roadmr> ..
[16:24] <roadmr> ara, go ahead
[16:24] <ara> OK, sounds good. roadmr, can you take the action of talking to the SRU team about the string changes + creating 0.12.10 milestone tomorrow? (for fixes that we might fix in the next SRU)
[16:25] <roadmr> will do
[16:25] <ara> #action roadmr  to talk to  the SRU team about the string changes + creating 0.12.10 milestone
[16:25] <meetingology> ACTION: roadmr  to talk to  the SRU team about the string changes + creating 0.12.10 milestone
[16:26] <ara> anything else on this topic?
[16:26]  * roadmr has nothing more
[16:26] <ara> cool! let's move on :)
[16:26] <ara> #topic Ubuntu Friendly next deployment -- jedimike
[16:27] <ara> jedimike, can you give us an update on what we can expect on the next deployment of UF?
[16:27] <jedimike> The next deployment of UF has been given a deadline of this thursday (17th)
[16:27] <jedimike> we will see updated help for the participate page to make it clearer what test we require run
[16:28] <jedimike> help for people who are having trouble finding their submissions on the site
[16:28] <jedimike> an updated "report a problem" page which will direct people to the right place for different types of feedback
[16:28] <jedimike> a stricter policy on skipping tests, if any test we require run is skipped, we reject the submission
[16:29] <brendand> o/
[16:29] <jedimike> on the backend, we have a faster way of finding individual submissions to help answer bugs, some stats reporting
[16:29] <jedimike> and a way to refresh all site data without taking the site down
[16:29] <jedimike> brendand, go ahead
[16:30] <brendand> about the 'no skipping' policy. it's a really wide misconception that you should uncheck tests in the test selection screen which you can't run. see e.g. : http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/ubuntu-friendly-usersubmitted-database-computers-work-ubuntu/
[16:31] <brendand> also when helping someone at the UF session at UDS they tried to do that
[16:31] <ara> o/
[16:31] <brendand> ...
[16:31] <jedimike> brendand: yes, those instructions have been corrected in the upcoming release
[16:31] <jedimike> ara, go!
[16:31] <ara> thanks!
[16:32] <ara> definitely, for Precise, we should really pay attention on how we present that information
[16:33] <ara> actually, we should open a bug about it and milestone it for Precise
[16:33] <ara> so we keep track of it
[16:33] <ara> on the client side, I mean
[16:33] <ara> ..
[16:33]  * brendand will take that action
[16:33] <brendand> o/
[16:33] <jedimike> brendand, go!
[16:34] <ara> #action brendan to open a bug about the usability bug on the selection of tests (for Ubuntu Friendly, only) and milestone it for checkbox 0.13
[16:34] <meetingology> ACTION: brendan to open a bug about the usability bug on the selection of tests (for Ubuntu Friendly, only) and milestone it for checkbox 0.13
[16:34] <brendand> do we distinguish between not run altogether and skipped?
[16:34] <brendand> if so, why?
[16:34] <brendand> ...
[16:34] <ara> o/
[16:35] <jedimike> no, if an entire test category is unselected, it will be reported as skipped. If an individual test is skipped, that is reported as skipped to, and we check if it's a skippable test.
[16:35] <jedimike> ara: go
[16:35] <ara> that's a good point
[16:35] <ara> jedimike, if bluetooth is unselect it at the beginning, that's reported as Untested
[16:35] <ara> what would happen in that case?
[16:35] <ara> ..
[16:36] <ara> (obviously that would work only for categories where all tests are skippable)
[16:36] <jedimike> ara: Untested in UF speak is Skipped :) we need a translator heh
[16:36] <brendand> o/
[16:36] <ara> brendand, go
[16:37] <brendand> so maybe not too much to worry about from the technical side (deselecting bluetooth is the same as skipping every bluetooth test)
[16:38] <brendand> however it's still a good idea to communicate that tests should only be skipped individually and only where you really can't run them
[16:38] <brendand> so no change in the action items
[16:38] <brendand> ...
[16:38] <ara> cool, thanks jedimike for the clarification and brendand for taking the action item :)
[16:39] <ara> anything else on the topic?
[16:40] <jedimike> not from me
[16:40] <ara> OK, let's move on
[16:40] <ara> #topic Any Other Business?
[16:40] <ara> anything else?
[16:41]  * roadmr has nothing else :)
[16:41] <alourie> may I?
[16:41] <ara> alourie, sure, go ahead :)
[16:42] <alourie> I find it strange that running Checkbox seemingly has nothing to do with Friendl
[16:42] <alourie> y
[16:43] <ara> o/
[16:43] <alourie> so I think that at least at the end, where the results are being uploaded, it should be mentioned instead of Launchpad
[16:43] <alourie> such as:
[16:43] <alourie> "provide an email address to upload results to Ubuntu Friendly"
[16:43] <alourie> or something like that
[16:44] <brendand> o/
[16:44] <ara> I agree that we need to give a better experience for UF users on the client side, but we have to make sure that we don't lose the "System Testing" goal of checkbox
[16:44] <alourie> sure
[16:45] <alourie> and what "Launchpad" has to do with it? :-)
[16:45] <ara> for Precise, when building the UI, we will try to come up with something that fits both
[16:45] <cr3> o/
[16:45] <alourie> ok
[16:45] <ara> ..
[16:45] <ara> brendand, go ahead
[16:46] <brendand> for alourie, the results in ubuntu friendly are taken from launchpad. this is just an architectural detail.
[16:47] <brendand> as for the original comment. i don't see the harm.
[16:47] <brendand> people using Checkbox for 'not Ubuntu Friendly' are already well aware of what it does
[16:47] <brendand> ..
[16:48] <ara> cr3, your turn
[16:48] <alourie> brendand: sure, but why would I, as user, knwo that?
[16:48] <bladernr> o/
[16:48] <cr3> might the problem be that UF seemlingly has nothing to do with Launchpad?
[16:48]  * brendand is agreeing with alourie, to be clear
[16:48] <bladernr> ^^ nevermind ..
[16:49] <cr3> I think Checkbox should remain agnostic of Ubuntu Friendly in order to encourage others to build services similar to UF, I don't see how Checkbox could know about every other project using results from testing in Launchpad
[16:49] <alourie> bladernr: thank you
[16:49] <cr3> ..
[16:49] <ara> thanks cr3
[16:49] <ara> anything else?
[16:50] <alourie> cr3: but what if I, as user, run it as UF, and then have no mention of it in the tool? Doesn't it confuse a little?
[16:51] <cr3> alourie: perhaps there should be a UF client that would Depend on Checkbox
[16:51] <alourie> I'm just thinking about a clean and clear experience...
[16:51] <roadmr> o/
[16:51] <ara> roadmr, go ahead, please
[16:51] <roadmr> first thanks to alourie for mentioning this usability problem!
[16:51] <cr3> Checkbox is infinitely extensible, both good and bad, but this would be an opportunity to use this extensibility for good rather than evil
[16:52] <roadmr> second, maybe we could have as cr3 says some way to parameterize checkbox so it shows customized information
[16:52] <roadmr> say checkbox-gtk --for="Ubuntu Friendly" would instruct checkbox to mention UF at key points during the test run
[16:52] <cr3> o/
[16:52] <roadmr> and for instance checkbox-gtk --for="Desktop Application Testing" would show that instead
[16:52] <roadmr> ..
[16:53] <ara> cr3, your turn
[16:54] <alourie> roadmr: wow
[16:54] <cr3> roadmr: if someone in the community develops an Ubuntu Unfriendly program, which is perfectly possible since the information is freely available, should Checkbox know about that project as well?
[16:54] <alourie> I was afraid to offer that :-)
[16:54] <roadmr> o/
[16:54] <cr3> roadmr: why not develop an ubuntu-friendly project with its own intro_prompt plugin, for example, that would be specifically for Ubuntu Friendly?
[16:55] <cr3> it could even have an Ubuntu Friendly logo people could identify with...
[16:55] <cr3> ..
[16:55] <bladernr> cr3:  to avoid a rash of checkbox-* packages?
[16:55] <ara> roadmr, go ahead
[16:56] <cr3> bladernr: this is a ubuntu-friendly package, not a checkbox-* package :)
[16:56] <ara> (and we should be wrapping up this conversation soon)
[16:56] <roadmr> well it's implementation discussion at this point, my idea is very simplistic but the fact is, we can probably find a way to extend checkbox to show more customized information
[16:56] <roadmr> as unobtrusively as possible (i.e. not introducing project-specific stuff in checkbox itself)
[16:57] <roadmr> ..
[16:57] <cr3> o/
[16:57] <ara> cr3, go ahead (if it is quick) :)
[16:57] <cr3> roadmr: indeed, if other projects could extend checkbox by adding files under a .d directory, like /etc/checkbox.d/ubuntu-friendly, which could be accessed from the checkbox-gtk command line, that would work
[16:57] <cr3> ..
[16:59] <ara> OK, I think we have been discussed this for a long time now. I guess the summary of it is: people coming to checkbox to test for UF find no relation between the two and any solution to this problem should take care of not putting checkbox too uf specific
[17:00] <ara> #action ara to file a bug about the usability bug on UF + checkbox relation
[17:00] <meetingology> ACTION: ara to file a bug about the usability bug on UF + checkbox relation
[17:00] <cr3> ara: don't forget that people coming to UF find no relation with Launchpad
[17:00] <alourie> I agree
[17:01] <ara> cr3, cool, thanks for the reminder
[17:01] <ara> OK, we run out of time
[17:01] <ara> so...
[17:01] <ara> #endmeeting
[17:01] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 17:01:30 2011 UTC.
[17:01] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-14-16.02.moin.txt
[17:01] <ara> thanks all for the participation!!
[17:01] <roadmr> thanks!
[17:01] <alourie> great
[17:01] <alourie> awesome
[17:02] <alourie> I also think that #ubuntu-friendly should be in existence already
[17:02] <bladernr> alourie:  +1
[17:03] <roadmr> alourie: we normally hang out in #ubuntu-testing if you need to get in touch
[17:03] <alourie> roadmr: oh, good to know
[17:03] <alourie> :-)
[17:03] <brendand> what's the reason we can't get an ubuntu-friendly channel?
[17:03] <cr3> alourie: perhaps we should wait until we have more people like you actively participating :)
[17:03] <alourie> cr3: I wouldn't call me active yet
[17:04] <alourie> :-)
[17:04] <alourie> but I do have some issues with friendly that I'd like to discuss, just not right now
[17:05] <roadmr> alourie: are you subscribed to the ubuntu-friendly mailing list?
[17:05] <alourie> roadmr: of course
[17:05] <roadmr> alourie: awesome :)
[17:05] <alourie> that's how I knew about the meeting :-)
[17:06] <alourie> ok, thanks all
[17:07]  * alourie has to watch the baby
[17:07] <alourie> cheers
[17:07] <roadmr> thanks alourie ! good luck
[18:00] <jjohansen> \o
[18:00] <jdstrand> hello!
[18:00] <jdstrand> #startmeeting
[18:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 14 18:00:28 2011 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[18:00] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:00] <jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
[18:00] <jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[18:00] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
[18:01] <jdstrand> I'll go first
[18:01] <jdstrand> I'm on triage this week
[18:01] <jdstrand> I've got an (unfortunately massive kde) update I will be testing
[18:02] <jdstrand> then another update I am working on, and several more in the queue after that
[18:02] <jdstrand> I plan to work with mdeslaur and the team to help get our blueprints/work items in order
[18:02] <jdstrand> I also have some MIR audits to get to
[18:02] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're next
[18:03] <mdeslaur> I'm currently testing my quagga update
[18:03] <mdeslaur> should get published this afternoon
[18:03] <mdeslaur> after that, I have some embargoed issues to look after
[18:03] <mdeslaur> and need to play with the blueprints/work items
[18:03] <mdeslaur> that's it for me this week
[18:03] <mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
[18:03] <sbeattie> I'm on triage this week
[18:04] <sbeattie> err s/triage/community/
[18:04] <sbeattie> I'm also testing an openjdk update, to hopefully publish later today
[18:04] <sbeattie> after that I've got more issues in the pipe
[18:05] <sbeattie> I think that's it for me
[18:05] <sbeattie> micahg: poke
[18:05] <jdstrand> I think micahg won't be attending the meeting
[18:05] <tyhicks> I'll go
[18:05] <tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week
[18:06] <tyhicks> My focus this week will be on my update queue
[18:06] <tyhicks> I've got a small start on a freetype update and will then pick others after that
[18:06] <tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
[18:08] <jjohansen> well, its more kernel work flow learning for me, and trying to finish up the environment variable filtering prototype for people to play with, and get more of the permission base rework done on apparmor
[18:09] <jdstrand> jjohansen: I have a high priority todo item to comment on your env filtering emails
[18:10] <jjohansen> jdstrand: sure /me was expecting it, but was trying to get a prototype out this weekend
[18:10]  * jjohansen expects mostly minor changes, like syntax etc, the how to will remain largely the same
[18:11] <jjohansen> thats it for me, so micahg your up
[18:12] <jdstrand> I think he is not here
[18:12] <jdstrand> let's move on
[18:12] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
[18:13] <jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
[18:13] <jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/samhain.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phpgroupware.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tangerine.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-htmlpurifier.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/lft.html
[18:13] <jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
[18:13] <jdstrand> This week we need to have our blueprints and work items in order. Please have them done no later than Friday. We can work together to make sure this happens
[18:14] <jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
[18:15] <mdeslaur> nope! :P
[18:17] <jdstrand> Thanks mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks and jjohansen! :)
[18:17] <jdstrand> #endmeeting
[18:17] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 18:17:34 2011 UTC.
[18:17] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-14-18.00.moin.txt
[18:17] <tyhicks> thanks jdstrand
[18:17] <sbeattie> thanks!
[18:17] <jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
[18:18] <mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand!
[19:57] <s-fox> 4 minutes until the meeting Joeb454, bapoumba, s-fox. Anyone seen AI ? /me will get jdong
[20:00] <Joeb454> not seen AI, no
[20:01] <kokoye2007> s-fox: today meeting ?
[20:01] <s-fox> I have AI on a different IM application Joeb454
[20:01] <kokoye2007> locc meeting s-fox ?
[20:01] <s-fox> kokoye2007,  No, Forum Council meeting
[20:02] <kokoye2007> thz s-fox
[20:03] <s-fox> o/ Artificial_Intel
[20:03] <Artificial_Intel> hello
[20:03] <bapoumba> Hey Artificial_Intel !
[20:04] <Artificial_Intel> I got summoned :-P
[20:04] <s-fox> Sorry ;)
[20:04] <s-fox> Okay, shall we start ?
[20:04] <bapoumba> okay
[20:05] <Artificial_Intel> I'm ready
[20:05] <Joeb454> I'm here, somewhere
[20:05] <s-fox> Haha
[20:05] <s-fox> Who is going to chair?
[20:05] <Joeb454> you started it ;) Seriously though, I'd say you're probably the best person. No pressure
[20:05] <bapoumba> you s-fox :)
[20:06] <Artificial_Intel> aye
[20:07]  * s-fox only has used Mootbot, lol
[20:09] <bapoumba> s-fox, which items do we have on the list ?
[20:10] <s-fox> Oh meetingology is in the room. Know how to use that
[20:10] <s-fox> :)
[20:11] <s-fox> #startmeeting Ubuntu Forums Council Meeting
[20:11] <meetingology> Meeting started Mon Nov 14 20:11:06 2011 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
[20:11] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[20:11] <s-fox> #meetingtopic Current Agenda is out of date
[20:12] <s-fox> #topic Agenda is currently out of date
[20:12] <s-fox> So, anyone object if we just clear it off and start afresh ?
[20:12] <bapoumba> np from me s-fox
[20:12] <Artificial_Intel> aye for me
[20:12] <Joeb454> makes sense to me too
[20:13] <s-fox> AFAIK the only current item is the psumi one, and that has been dealt with. It is now in the hands of the CC
[20:13] <s-fox> Should we clear that also?
[20:13] <bapoumba> +1
[20:13] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[20:13] <Joeb454> +1
[20:13] <s-fox> +1
[20:14] <s-fox> #agreed Clear old agenda items
[20:14] <s-fox> Hmm.
[20:15] <s-fox> Oh I know what I did wrong, silly me. Sorry guys
[20:15] <s-fox> #vote clear old agenda items
[20:15] <meetingology> Please vote on: clear old agenda items
[20:15] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:15] <s-fox> +1
[20:15] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[20:15] <bapoumba> +1
[20:15] <meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
[20:16] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[20:16] <meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
[20:16] <s-fox> Joeb454,  vote :)
[20:16] <Joeb454> +1
[20:16] <meetingology> +1 received from Joeb454
[20:16] <Joeb454> sorry
[20:16] <s-fox> #endvote
[20:16] <meetingology> Voting ended on: clear old agenda items
[20:16] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:16] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:16] <s-fox> \o/
[20:17] <bapoumba> congrats s-fox :)
[20:17] <s-fox> lol, thanks
[20:17] <s-fox> anyone got any items they want to bring to the table?
[20:17] <bapoumba> scheduled meetings ?
[20:17] <s-fox> Okay, lets talk about that :)
[20:18] <s-fox> I think bodhi is right in wanting to alternate friday / monday meetings so every council member can attend at least every other meeting
[20:18] <bapoumba> we should set up a calendar for the FC that feeds the frige calendar
[20:19] <s-fox> +1
[20:19] <bapoumba> and saves the spot in #ubuntu-meeting
[20:19] <bapoumba> we were lucky no meeting was scheduled tonight
[20:19]  * s-fox nods
[20:19] <Artificial_Intel> any day, except for Wednesday for me.
[20:19] <s-fox> #vote set up FC fridge calender
[20:19] <meetingology> Please vote on: set up FC fridge calender
[20:19] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:19] <Joeb454> +1
[20:19] <meetingology> +1 received from Joeb454
[20:19] <s-fox> +1
[20:19] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[20:20] <bapoumba> alternate monday / friday works for me for now
[20:20] <bapoumba> +1
[20:20] <meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
[20:20] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[20:20] <meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
[20:20] <s-fox> #endvote
[20:20] <meetingology> Voting ended on: set up FC fridge calender
[20:20] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:20] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:20] <Joeb454> I mentioned on the FC list why I might not be able to do some Fridays, but I'll do what I can
[20:20] <Joeb454> especially now it's on record
[20:20] <s-fox> #vote Alternate meeting days between friday and mondays
[20:20] <meetingology> Please vote on: Alternate meeting days between friday and mondays
[20:20] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:20] <s-fox> +1
[20:20] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[20:20] <bapoumba> +1
[20:20] <meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
[20:20] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[20:20] <Joeb454> +1
[20:20] <meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
[20:20] <meetingology> +1 received from Joeb454
[20:20] <s-fox> #endvote
[20:20] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Alternate meeting days between friday and mondays
[20:20] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:20] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:21] <s-fox> Getting into the swing of this ;)
[20:21] <bapoumba> cool s-fox
[20:21] <bapoumba> and thanks btw
[20:21] <s-fox> How often should we meet?  Once a month?
[20:21] <bapoumba> sounds good
[20:22] <bapoumba> too often I might get used to IRC again
[20:22] <s-fox> We have our ML too so anything urgent can go to it
[20:22] <Artificial_Intel> good enough for me
[20:22] <s-fox> #vote meet once per month
[20:22] <meetingology> Please vote on: meet once per month
[20:22] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:22] <s-fox> +1
[20:22] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[20:22] <bapoumba> +1
[20:22] <meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
[20:22] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[20:22] <meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
[20:23] <Joeb454> +1
[20:23] <meetingology> +1 received from Joeb454
[20:23] <s-fox> #endvote
[20:23] <meetingology> Voting ended on: meet once per month
[20:23] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:23] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:23] <s-fox> Um, any other items?
[20:23] <Joeb454> I did think of something this morning, but it eludes me right now, annoyingly
[20:23] <Artificial_Intel> We could discuss T&E?
[20:24] <s-fox> Okay, post what you want to discuss Artificial_Intel
[20:24] <s-fox> The floor is yours
[20:24] <bapoumba> I'm not sure we have a consensus Artificial_Intel
[20:25] <Artificial_Intel> We can't be happy with status quo?
[20:25] <Joeb454> Artificial_Intel: you mean leave things as they are?
[20:25] <Artificial_Intel> aye, we have also heard from the users, we'll soon have to take actions.
[20:26] <s-fox> Remind me, did we make T&E not count as a support post ?
[20:26] <bapoumba> For now, as many different views have been expressed
[20:26] <bapoumba> s-fox, we all agree for not count
[20:26] <Artificial_Intel> or getting a step to the next part of changing T&E
[20:27] <Joeb454> perhaps we should conduct some sort of poll or survey?
[20:27] <s-fox> Personally I think the T&E threads should close after the first post. It is not a place for discussion.
[20:27] <s-fox> Joeb454,  Might work, willing to give it a go
[20:27] <bapoumba> I'm not sure I agree
[20:27] <bapoumba> users wont understand
[20:28] <Artificial_Intel> I'm with s-fox on this one. Not that also can see the other way around,.
[20:28] <Artificial_Intel> then we have to call it something else, bapoumba.
[20:28] <Joeb454> I'd prefer to keep T&E open to discussion. It's one of those areas where the focus isn't solely support, and /can/ help it feel less like a support forum, and more where people just like to visit
[20:29] <bapoumba> either we allow, in a dedicated place with clear rules, or these discussions will spill over the other categories anyway
[20:29] <Joeb454> I appreciate that there's often flaming in there, but regardless, I think it does help
[20:30] <s-fox> What if we let the community decide in a poll Joeb454?
[20:30] <bapoumba> hmm
[20:30] <s-fox> We can always undo the change if it doesn't work out so great
[20:30] <Joeb454> works for me, it's their choice then
[20:31] <Artificial_Intel> Can we set up a poll seen in all our forums?
[20:31] <s-fox> I think if we put as global notice for a couple weeks?
[20:31] <Joeb454> I can do that after I've eaten if you like?
[20:32] <bapoumba> we should be careful about the wording Joeb454
[20:32] <s-fox> #vote Set up poll and let community decide what to do with T&E and follow through
[20:32] <meetingology> Please vote on: Set up poll and let community decide what to do with T&E and follow through
[20:32] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:32] <s-fox> +1
[20:32] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[20:32] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[20:32] <meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
[20:32] <Joeb454> +1
[20:32] <bapoumba> 0
[20:32] <meetingology> +1 received from Joeb454
[20:32] <meetingology> 0 received from bapoumba
[20:32] <s-fox> #endvote
[20:32] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Set up poll and let community decide what to do with T&E and follow through
[20:32] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
[20:32] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:32] <s-fox> Okay, Joeb454 You going to do that?
[20:33] <Joeb454> bapoumba: true, maybe we should draft something on the FC list, or the staff forum first
[20:33] <bapoumba> yeah
[20:33] <bapoumba> ask other Staff
[20:33]  * s-fox nods
[20:33] <Joeb454> s-fox: I'll do it, yes, but see above, probably worth delaying the poll by a day to make sure we're all happy with how it could be read
[20:33] <bapoumba> +1
[20:33] <Artificial_Intel> a poll for staff and a poll for users?
[20:33] <s-fox> I agree.  Draft and post for staff review
[20:34] <s-fox> Artificial_Intel,  -1, all in one big poll
[20:34] <bapoumba> some Staff are very active in the category and give valuable input
[20:34] <Artificial_Intel> ok, I just misunderstood the question :P
[20:34] <Joeb454> one poll to rule them all Artificial_Intel ;)
[20:34] <s-fox> lol
[20:35] <s-fox> Any other items?
[20:35] <s-fox> No?
[20:35] <Artificial_Intel> any news regarding forum upgrades?
[20:35] <bapoumba> I think the spam measures on usergroups are working pretty well
[20:35] <s-fox> Okay, upgrade first then spam stuff.
[20:36] <bapoumba> okay
[20:36] <s-fox> #topic Forum upgrade
[20:36] <Joeb454> Artificial_Intel: T-V is working on it still. I'll email him later to see if there's an update
[20:36] <s-fox> AFAIK TV is sorting it
[20:36] <s-fox> Guess not much to say other than get an update from TV
[20:37] <bapoumba> Joeb454, regarding statistics (remotely connected)
[20:37] <Artificial_Intel> ok, it just seems we're the forums answer to Duke nuke'em :P
[20:37] <bapoumba> I asked UG for the login to soogle analytics
[20:37] <Joeb454> bapoumba: oh? Does he still have it?
[20:37] <bapoumba> I do not know :(
[20:37] <bapoumba> I asked the day the thread appeared
[20:38] <s-fox> #topic Spam measures
[20:38] <s-fox> Do we think it is working
[20:38] <s-fox> ??
[20:38] <bapoumba> yes
[20:38] <bapoumba> :þ
[20:38] <bapoumba> no moar profile spam
[20:39] <s-fox> :)
[20:39] <s-fox> Okay :) I know some are still moaning at it.
[20:39] <Artificial_Intel> It's working, I actually have time to help out in the support now.
[20:39] <bapoumba> I cannot imagine we were spending  a coulpe hours a day each on that
[20:39] <Artificial_Intel> Instead of spam hunting and cleaning.
[20:39] <Joeb454> it is working, and users are finally getting used to it
[20:40] <s-fox> I know,  I now have a social life and not working on stuff behind the scenes
[20:40] <bapoumba> yes
[20:40] <s-fox> #vote Keep current anti-spam measures
[20:40] <meetingology> Please vote on: Keep current anti-spam measures
[20:40] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:40] <s-fox> +1
[20:40] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[20:40] <bapoumba> +1
[20:40] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[20:40] <meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
[20:40] <meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
[20:40] <bapoumba> Joey ?
[20:40] <Artificial_Intel> he's eating spam :P
[20:40] <s-fox> You're missing the vote on pink name
[20:40] <s-fox> ;)
[20:41] <s-fox> Joeb454 PING
[20:41] <bapoumba> Joeb454, say +1 please
[20:41] <Joeb454> +1
[20:41] <meetingology> +1 received from Joeb454
[20:41] <s-fox> Yay
[20:41] <bapoumba> \o/
[20:41] <s-fox> #endvote
[20:41] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Keep current anti-spam measures
[20:41] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:41] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:41] <s-fox> Okay, anything else?
[20:42] <Joeb454> nothing from me
[20:42] <Artificial_Intel> Will this be updated? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[20:42] <bapoumba> glad you are offering to Artificial_Intel :)
[20:42] <s-fox> Yes.  It needs to be when we get rid of old stuff
[20:42] <s-fox> +1 bapoumba
[20:43] <s-fox> #topic update wiki page
[20:43] <s-fox> #vote Update wiki
[20:43] <meetingology> Please vote on: Update wiki
[20:43] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[20:43] <s-fox> +1
[20:43] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[20:43] <bapoumba> +1
[20:43] <meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
[20:43] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[20:43] <meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
[20:43] <bapoumba> 'and the monthly reports ...)
[20:44] <Artificial_Intel> it doesn't look good with outdated wiki :P
[20:44] <Joeb454> +1
[20:44] <meetingology> +1 received from Joeb454
[20:44] <s-fox> #endvote
[20:44] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Update wiki
[20:44] <meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[20:44] <meetingology> Motion carried
[20:44] <Artificial_Intel> the monthly report usually have its own link on the forum as I recall it?
[20:45] <Artificial_Intel> or sub
[20:45] <bapoumba> Artificial_Intel, ?
[20:45] <s-fox> I cannot recall.
[20:45] <bapoumba> did not know that
[20:45] <s-fox> We'll have to have a poke around and look.
[20:45] <bapoumba> I was talking about team monthly report
[20:46] <s-fox> Hmm.
[20:46] <Artificial_Intel> I think it did, I usually clicked it to read what the previous FC was talking about
[20:46] <bapoumba> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/
[20:46] <Joeb454> I don't think we had a sub-forum for it...I don't remember it anyway
[20:47] <bodhi_zazen> sorry to be late =)
[20:47] <s-fox> Right, we done?
[20:47] <Artificial_Intel> the beers is on bodhi :)
[20:47] <s-fox> white wine please :)
[20:47] <bodhi_zazen> whine ?
[20:47] <bapoumba> s-fox, did you see the link I gave earlier ?
[20:48] <s-fox> which one bapoumba, repost?
[20:48] <bapoumba> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/
[20:49] <s-fox> Oh okay. We need to do that
[20:49] <bapoumba> I think so
[20:49] <s-fox> #topic Team reports
[20:50] <s-fox> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/
[20:50] <s-fox> hmmm
[20:50] <s-fox> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/
[20:50] <s-fox> Oh well, it'll be in the log
[20:50] <s-fox> I don't think anything to vote on, but we should do it.
[20:51] <s-fox> Any volunteers?
[20:51] <s-fox> I can probably help a bit
[20:51] <bapoumba> So can I
[20:51] <s-fox> Okay, me and you do it bapoumba?
[20:51] <bapoumba> when time permits :/
[20:51] <bapoumba> yes
[20:51] <s-fox> Same here
[20:52] <s-fox> #action s-fox and bapoumba to write forums report
[20:52] <meetingology> ACTION: s-fox and bapoumba to write forums report
[20:52] <s-fox> :)
[20:52] <bodhi_zazen> We could rotate the person responsible for team report
[20:52] <s-fox> I don't mind doing them, I like repetitive things ;)
[20:53] <s-fox> Once I know exactly how they work
[20:53] <bodhi_zazen> \o/
[20:53] <bapoumba> eheh
[20:53] <bapoumba> I get easily bored with repetitive stuff
[20:53] <bapoumba> but I'll do it
[20:53] <bapoumba> team work I like
[20:54] <s-fox> Oh, if anyone objects I would like to chair the next meeting, where I will be more up to speed with this bot
[20:54] <s-fox> sorry, doesn't object
[20:54] <s-fox> ;)
[20:54] <bapoumba> ok
[20:54] <Joeb454> fine by me
[20:54] <bodhi_zazen> OK , and did we post an agenda for this meeting ?
[20:54] <bapoumba> thanks for offering s-fox
[20:54] <Artificial_Intel> ok, fine with me. I'm a bigger tool to mess things up.
[20:54] <bapoumba> bodhi_zazen, nope
[20:55] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen,  We sort of winged it, but it was organised :)
[20:55] <bodhi_zazen> OK, I will read the logs
[20:55] <s-fox> It'll be in the logs
[20:55] <bapoumba> tried to get to the fridge cal thingy but was too late bodhi_zazen
[20:55] <s-fox> Okay, I am going to end the meeting. Any complaints?
[20:55] <bapoumba> nope
[20:55] <bodhi_zazen> Moving forward - agenda + broader community notification + ? UF Membership at meetings ?
[20:56]  * bodhi_zazen goes to complain
[20:56] <s-fox> Oh, that is an item we didn't cover
[20:56] <s-fox> UF Membership at meetings
[20:56] <bapoumba> bodhi_zazen, UF memberships at UF
[20:56] <bodhi_zazen> yea
[20:56] <s-fox> #topic UF Membership at meetings
[20:56] <Joeb454> I'm indifferent on this one
[20:56] <bodhi_zazen> I would propose we cover membership at meetings
[20:56] <s-fox> I am +0
[20:57] <bapoumba> hmm
[20:57] <s-fox> It would mean getting forum users onto irc
[20:57] <s-fox> Potentially
[20:57] <s-fox> Almost as bad as signing the CoC in launchpad
[20:57] <bodhi_zazen> Not necessarily, but we could invite them if needed
[20:57] <bapoumba> I like th epublic discussions
[20:57] <bodhi_zazen> The BT would probably help get them up to speed if needed
[20:57] <bapoumba> but some users may not want to come
[20:58] <s-fox> We do have the public discussion board, but our voting does not go ahead in public. Is this a bad thing?
[20:58] <bodhi_zazen> I would not *require* they come her
[20:58] <Artificial_Intel> ...and there's the time differences to put into account.
[20:58] <bapoumba> s-fox, I do not know
[20:58] <s-fox> Artificial_Intel,  Good point
[20:58] <bapoumba> being public is always good
[20:59] <bapoumba> we have the discussion threads in the membership category
[20:59] <s-fox> It would also need to tie in with our agreed monthly meetings
[20:59] <bapoumba> if they cannot come due to timezones, its okay
[20:59] <s-fox> Okay, I am happy with that
[20:59] <s-fox> They can add themselves to the agenda if they are coming
[20:59] <bapoumba> once a month is good
[21:00] <Artificial_Intel> as long it isn't mandatory.
[21:00] <bapoumba> and we have a time line
[21:00] <s-fox> +1
[21:00] <s-fox> #vote Ubuntu Membership at council meetings in public
[21:00] <meetingology> Please vote on: Ubuntu Membership at council meetings in public
[21:00] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[21:00] <bapoumba> if we (FC) cannot attend, we can send our votes to the ml or the discussion category
[21:01] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[21:01] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[21:01] <bapoumba> +1
[21:01] <meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
[21:01] <Joeb454> +0
[21:01] <meetingology> +0 received from Joeb454
[21:01] <s-fox> +1
[21:01] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[21:01] <Artificial_Intel> +0
[21:01] <meetingology> +0 received from Artificial_Intel
[21:01] <s-fox> #endvote
[21:01] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Ubuntu Membership at council meetings in public
[21:01] <meetingology> Votes for:3 Votes against:0 Abstentions:2
[21:01] <meetingology> Motion carried
[21:01] <Joeb454> I wouldn't call that carried
[21:01] <Joeb454> there's still jdong and iowan
[21:01] <s-fox> We can get them to vote also and recount
[21:02] <s-fox> Probably on the ml?
[21:02] <bapoumba> +1
[21:02] <Artificial_Intel> I don't have a problem with that.
[21:03] <s-fox> #topic post all vote topics on ml and get jdong and iowan input
[21:03] <s-fox> +1
[21:03] <bapoumba> +1
[21:03] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[21:03] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[21:03] <bodhi_zazen> or in the monthly team report =)
[21:03] <s-fox> #vote Repost voting on ml for others
[21:03] <meetingology> Please vote on: Repost voting on ml for others
[21:03] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[21:03] <s-fox> +1
[21:03] <meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
[21:03] <bapoumba> s-fox is having fun ;)
[21:03] <bapoumba> +1
[21:03] <meetingology> +1 received from bapoumba
[21:03] <Artificial_Intel> +1
[21:03] <meetingology> +1 received from Artificial_Intel
[21:03] <bodhi_zazen> +1
[21:03] <meetingology> +1 received from bodhi_zazen
[21:03] <s-fox> No, just forgetful bapoumba ;)
[21:04] <s-fox> Joeb454 ...
[21:04] <Joeb454> +1
[21:04] <meetingology> +1 received from Joeb454
[21:04] <s-fox> #endvote
[21:04] <meetingology> Voting ended on: Repost voting on ml for others
[21:04] <meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[21:04] <meetingology> Motion carried
[21:04] <s-fox> Right, we're running over. Anything else or can I end it?
[21:04] <bapoumba> fine with me
[21:04] <Joeb454> fine with me too
[21:04] <Artificial_Intel> I have nothing more
[21:05] <s-fox> +1
[21:05] <s-fox> bodhi_zazen ?
[21:05] <s-fox> #endmeeting
[21:05] <meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Nov 14 21:05:35 2011 UTC.
[21:05] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-11-14-20.11.moin.txt
[21:05] <s-fox> That was fun.
[21:05] <s-fox> ;) Thanks for being put on the spot Joeb454
[21:05] <Artificial_Intel> now to the after party
[21:06] <bapoumba> thanks s-fox :)
[21:06] <s-fox> I promise I will be more familiar with this bot for the next meeting
[21:07] <bapoumba> you did wonderfully s-fox
[21:07] <s-fox> I am only ever really used mootbot
[21:07] <s-fox> Thanks :D