[00:26] <Resistance> are you monitoring the #ubuntu channel, user sekyourbox?
[00:26] <Resistance> he seems to be disruptive
[00:27] <mneptok> Resistance: i'll have a look. thanks.
[00:27] <Resistance> you're welcome.  :)
[00:53] <Corey> LjL: So quick!
[00:53] <LjL> got enough warnings
[00:54] <oogabooga> hello
[00:54] <LjL> hi
[00:54] <oogabooga> i was a bit excited i guess earlier, sorry, i was hoping to see if i could maybe get my ban shortened, please?
[00:55] <LjL> the issue is that you *were* warned about language, then you were warned about something else, and as a response you used even more foul language
[00:55] <LjL> oogabooga: i will remove the ban on the condition that you read the guidelines that i'm about to send you, and agree to respect them
[00:55] <LjL> !etiquette > oogabooga
[00:55] <LjL> !guidelines > oogabooga
[00:55] <oogabooga> ok!
[00:55] <LjL> !coc > oogabooga
[00:56] <oogabooga> ok i'm done
[00:56] <LjL> you're a fast reader aren't you?
[00:56] <oogabooga> >_>
[00:57] <oogabooga> ok i will continue reading
[00:57] <LjL> i'll just pretend you've read them. but next time the ban is going to be much longer if you still misbehave, because the assumption now is that you know them.
[01:04] <PerfM> unban me from -offtopic
[01:04] <PerfM> I made a missssstake
[01:05] <LjL> oogabooga: i'm going to bed now. when you're done reading, please part this channel and rejoin #ubuntu, and behave ;)
[01:30] <PerfM> never mind
[01:30] <PerfM> All is fair in love and war~~~
[07:52] <Guest60175> It appears I am still banned in #ubuntu
[11:32] <bastidrazor> hello ops.. for the love of pete, please fix the bots. they are -j +j'ing the channel to death.
[12:40] <popey> any chance the !lococouncil factoid can have my name removed now I'm no longer on the loco council?
[12:40] <popey> !lococouncil
[12:40] <popey> uhm
[12:40] <popey> !loco-council
[12:40] <popey> wtf
[12:41] <popey> ubot4 knows it, ubottu doesnt
[12:45] <iceroot> hi
[12:45] <iceroot> maybe its possible to stop the floodbots spaming the channel #ubuntu?
[13:13] <Myrtti> trust me, it's annoying us as much as it is annoying everyone else
[13:14] <Myrtti> there's just a limited amount of tools available for the unaccumstomed op
[13:25] <psypher246> hi all, I am a bit confused as to how ask ubuntu works. I have only ever asked one question which no-one responded to and now I am trying to answer someone else question and Ive been told I'm banned? I read the FAQ on why that happens and I don't see how my involvement could have gotten me banned??
[13:27] <Myrtti> ask ubuntu?
[13:27] <psypher246> yeah
[13:27] <psypher246> http://askubuntu.com
[13:28] <psypher246> i just asked this same question in #ubuntu and someone suggested asking it here\
[13:28] <Myrtti> well, this channel has actually prety much nothing to do with AskUbuntu website
[13:29] <Myrtti> some of us use it, but the governance has nothing to do with this channel
[13:29] <psypher246> ok thanks
[16:26] <truepurple> I was banned from ubuntu for no valid reason
[16:26] <truepurple> ikonia,
[16:26] <ikonia> truepurple: it's only a temporary ban (sorry didn't see you join here)
[16:26] <truepurple> Still no reason to ban me, and it disrupts my getting help
[16:27] <ikonia> truepurple: you've been spoken to a few times and had a few short bans/mutes in #ubuntu because of how you ask questions / interact with people helping you - I've just watched the whole incident with llutz
[16:27] <truepurple> By the time I get back, the person that was helping me might be gone
[16:27] <truepurple> and I didnt do anything wrong! llutz took me wrong, but that was llutz error. And when I tried to explain my innocuous meaning, you banned me for it!
[16:28] <truepurple> This is not right
[16:28] <truepurple> Not fair or a a reason to be banned, even temporarily
[16:30] <truepurple> ikonia,
[16:31] <LjL> truepurple: don't want to intromit myself but i'm curious, what was that about usernames?
[16:32] <truepurple> I asked the question which noone answered, is ones user name part of the password protection system of linux? If it is, then it is good for people to not know your user name, and if you slip up and publish it, it would be nice to have people not repeatedly publish it
[16:32] <truepurple> LjL,
[16:32] <LjL> i see
[16:32] <LjL> that wasn't very clear i think
[16:33] <LjL> anyway, yeah, the user name is best not known (although of course knowing it is not the end of the world)
[16:33] <truepurple> I prioritized resolving the issue with my HDD over clearing that up
[16:34] <truepurple> but now thankts to ikonia I can't finish fixing the problem I was working on
[16:35] <ikonia> sorry - I was just on the phone
[16:35] <ikonia> apologies for that
[16:35] <truepurple> I dont want to spend hours waiting for another person to respond, only to have to reexplain everything from scratch ikonia
[16:36] <truepurple> I mean with the issue I was getting help with, since I can't make further inquiries being banned from the channel
[16:36] <truepurple> and as I mentioned before, by the time I get back, llutz might be gone
[16:36] <truepurple> ikonia, how long did you set my ban anyway?
[16:36] <ikonia> truepurple: everytime you interact with someone in #ubuntu - it's a cloak and dagger afair, with miss-leading information, yo udon't listen and you get pushy with the person helping you
[16:37] <ikonia> truepurple: as a result of this you joined in #ubuntu-beginners to try to lean how to interact with people better
[16:37] <truepurple> ikonia, that is not true at all
[16:37] <ikonia> then we have different views on one of the last reasons you got banned
[16:37] <truepurple> ikonia, I join in ubuntu-beginners when I can't find someone knowledgeable to respond in ubuntu
[16:38] <truepurple> ikonia, then just deal with this case, and not anything else
[16:38] <ikonia> ok then
[16:38] <ikonia> truepurple: you need to change how you ask questions in #ubuntu
[16:38] <ikonia> you've been spoken to about this many times
[16:39] <ikonia> be straight, give real information
[16:39] <truepurple> ikonia, I was misunderstood, and the source of the misunderstanding was not my fault, the correct understanding was not hard to find for anyone not looking for reasons to find offense. When I tried to clear up the misunderstanding, you banned me
[16:40] <ikonia> truepurple: I read it the same as llutz
[16:40] <ikonia> that's why I banned you as you've had similar situations before
[16:40] <truepurple> ikonia, I have been straight, I have given real information. If I hadn't done exactly that, llutz couldn't have helped me as much as s/he did
[16:40] <ikonia> but you complained about how he helped you, which in reality was becauase you where not listening properly and changing things slightly
[16:41] <truepurple> ikonia, I have been listening, and using the information given, I couldn't do the latter without the former
[16:41] <ikonia> only because he had to repeat things 3 4 times
[16:41] <truepurple> ikonia, I never complained about anyone helping me
[16:41] <ikonia> that's not listening
[16:41] <truepurple> ikonia, no, that was not the case
[16:41] <ikonia> sorry, that's not how I read it
[16:41] <ikonia> nor how llutz read it
[16:42] <ikonia> and this situation has arrose with you a few times in the past
[16:42] <truepurple> ikonia, some repeating happened in a few pieces of information out of many given, but that was because I did not understand the order or purpose of the information, and repeating with clarification of how to apply said information was needed
[16:43] <truepurple> ikonia, I thought we agreed to only deal with this situation, so please don't talk about the past. I still have a open ticket appealing the crappy way I was treated by ops of ubuntu before
[16:43] <ikonia> again, not how I read it
[16:43] <ikonia> truepurple: your past is relevent because it's for similar situations
[16:44] <truepurple> ikonia, bringing in the past means speaking in useless vagueness that amounts to subjective opinion, and we do not agree on that past.
[16:45] <ikonia> truepurple: then we'll leave it there then
[16:45] <truepurple> ikonia, exactly why did you ban me? Please speak in extreme specificity compared to what you have been speaking in
[16:46] <truepurple> ikonia, also, I asked, how long did you set this ban?
[16:46] <ikonia> truepurple: I'm afraid I'm going to have to reference your previous issues,
[16:47] <ikonia> truepurple: I banned you (it was supposed to short until I'd had chance to talk to you) because you have had problems interacting with users in #ubuntu before, and I wasn't happy with the way you interacted with llutz after he took a lot of effort to help you
[16:47] <truepurple> ikonia, Your saying you banned me for things that have happened before, and not what happened today? That is a rhetorical question BTW, the point is, you can be specific with your reasons for today without bringing up the past
[16:47] <ikonia> I've just given you your reason and explained that the past issues suggesting there is something that needs to be corrected
[16:47] <truepurple> ikonia, not in any specific way you haven't
[16:48] <truepurple> ikonia, you speak only in broad generalities
[16:48] <ikonia> so you want me to start quoting lines and detailing exactly what I was unhappy with ?
[16:48] <ikonia> and going into your previous behaviour logs and quoting lines to back that up
[16:48] <ikonia> is that what you want, yes/no
[16:49] <truepurple> ikonia, Ok, I am not actually able to look into the history of ubuntu because of the absurd way xchat handles closed channels though:p
[16:49] <ikonia> truepurple: yes or no
[16:49] <truepurple> ikonia, yes please, a few for now if you have many
[16:49] <ikonia> truepurple: you want specifc, I want specifc, yes/no
[16:49] <truepurple> ikonia, give me a moment to respond please :p
[16:50] <truepurple> ikonia, also, if you could do the former first, then go back into other logs if necessary
[16:51] <ikonia> fine, if that's what you want, I'll waste time with this
[16:51] <ikonia> truepurple: it will take me an hour to go through the logs and document my reasoning please come back in 1 hours
[16:51] <truepurple> ikonia, well the way I want, doesn't take as much time as the way you are suggesting
[16:51] <ikonia> truepurple: what is the way you want ?
[16:52] <truepurple> ikonia, to just tell your reasons for today first, which means you dont have to dig up old chat
[16:52] <ikonia> truepurple: my reasons are you didn't appear to listen / take on board what the person who was helping you was saying, and at the end of it you complained that he did not help you direct enough, when in reality you had not been clear in your question
[16:53] <truepurple> ikonia, How long did you set my ban for? Undecided?
[16:53] <ikonia> normally this would not be an issue - but as you have had this issue in the past, I banned you (probably should have muted you) so I could take the time to talk to you
[16:53] <ikonia> truepurple: the duration of the ban was the time it took me to talk to you and be comfortable you where "ok"
[16:54] <truepurple> ikonia, "you complained that he did not help you direct enough"- this is false
[16:54] <ikonia> that's how it read in the channel
[16:54] <ikonia> 16:19 < truepurple> llutz_, why didn't you have me do it that way from the start?
[16:54] <ikonia> 16:19 < llutz_> truepurple: because _you_ really said what you really want to do/have
[16:54] <truepurple> ikonia, you spoke of quoting specific text and what you didn't like about it, would you please do that? Like what text made you think that?
[16:54] <ikonia> 16:20 < llutz_> truepurple: but sorry that i tried to help. won't happen again
[16:54] <ikonia> 16:21 < truepurple> llutz_, but if that way is better overall with no drawbacks, why didn't we
[16:55] <ikonia>                     use that from the start? I ask because I want to determine pros and cons, not
[16:55] <ikonia>                     to get you to get unnecessarily defensive.
[16:55] <ikonia> there you go, see above
[16:55] <ikonia> you have to have followed the whole converation to get the context
[16:56] <truepurple> Yeah, see that bit at the end, that explained my reason, that tells you it wasn't me "complaining he didn't help me direct enough" if you read it carefully
[16:56] <ikonia> but llutz was very patient with you, explains things a lot and had to draw out of you what you actually wanted to do, and as soon as he realised you got the direct help
[16:56] <ikonia> truepurple: I did read it carefully, and I understand that wasn't your intention, but that is how it came across
[16:57] <ikonia> I'd been following the whole conversation. I thought it was harsh to say that to the guy who had put in a pretty big effort to work you through it, and as you can see, it frustrated/annoyed him, and it would have me, as I read it the same
[16:57] <truepurple> ikonia, but if it was a misunderstanding, and I explained my actual meaning, why can't that be sufficient? It almost seems like you banned me for clearing up meaning
[16:58] <ikonia> truepurple: I understnad it wasn't a miss-understanding, however as I was referencing, you've had this problem before, so I wanted to talk to you before allowing it to escalate in #ubuntu
[16:58] <ikonia> I should have muted you with hindsight, however the effect of removing your speach from the channel so I could speak to you was the same
[16:58] <ikonia> sorry "was" a miss-understanding
[16:58] <truepurple> ikonia, ":I understnad it wasn't a miss-understanding"- you lost me there, you don't think it was a mis...
[16:59] <ikonia> sorry, that was my typo
[16:59] <truepurple> ikonia, muting would also allow me to look at channel history, would you please unban then mute me so I can review the channel history please?
[17:00] <ikonia> sorry, I'm not comfortable you actually see a problem with what you're doing
[17:00] <ikonia> if this was the only time it had happened, I would have no issue, but there have been a few issues with this situation in the past (again this was why I banned you rather than let it slide)
[17:00] <Jordan_U> !logs | truepurple
[17:00] <truepurple> You said a mute was what you intended to do anyway, and if I am muted, what harm can I do?
[17:01] <ikonia> no, looking back I should have muted you,
[17:01] <truepurple> why not do that now?
[17:01] <ikonia> there is no need to do that now, Jordan_U has just provided you to a log of the hcannel
[17:03] <ikonia> truepurple: I don't want to exclude you from the channel, that's no the intention, but you have had this issue before, and when you are spoken to about it you try to find fault in the argument, rather than actually adjusting how you interact,
[17:03] <ikonia> I'm not %100 sure of the best approach to take with you
[17:05] <truepurple> ikonia, if I disagree with your assessment of the way I "interact" and your instructions for changing how I "interact" as as deep as  essentially 'Do it better', then that is impossible
[17:05] <ikonia> I've given you a pretty good example, and the reason behind it,
[17:05] <ikonia> is there something we the team or even me individually can do to assit ?
[17:06] <ikonia> I know I've spoken to you a few times in the past, and I know others have, plus there are logs of some of the other incidents,
[17:06] <truepurple> ikonia, you gave me a example of where you and another person grossely misunderstood me, and then I tried to clear it up and you banned me right after, seemingly for trying to clear it up
[17:07] <ikonia> these misunderstandings have happened a few times though, if it was once time I wouldn't mind, they do happen, but a lot of the time you're in the channel they happen
[17:07] <ikonia> again - not trying to keep you out, just not sure what to do to suggest reducing these miss-understandings
[17:08] <truepurple> ikonia, it is not a one sided thing. I do think of things in different terms then many other people, so its not a big surprise to me that people understood something differently then me. But the thing is, this is the way my brain works. I can attempt to explain my meaning and speak in different terms, but there is limits to this. You and others also need to try to appreciate real meaning
[17:08] <ikonia> no, we don't
[17:08] <ikonia> everyone seems to manage to work with people in a regular way
[17:08] <truepurple> ikonia, I also notice that mind-set matters alot with these situations, pessimistic people looking for problems tend to see my misunderstood words badly, where as positive minded people see them well.
[17:09] <ikonia> sorry no, llutz was very positive and patient with you
[17:09] <truepurple> ikonia, llutz saw my words very negatively, and so did you,
[17:09] <ikonia> I followed the converation hoping it would not go to the normal track with you, so in some repsect I was monitoring you
[17:09] <ikonia> see, that's not nice to say
[17:10] <ikonia> llutz had been very patient and positive with you
[17:10] <ikonia> so to say he sees them negative, it's a good thing to say
[17:10] <truepurple> also, llutz did help out alot, but to describe anything lutz said as "positive" would be inaccurate, most of it was neutral in that regard
[17:10] <ikonia> ok - I'm done with this
[17:10] <ikonia> this is the issue, you don't listen and try to find fault with the discussion/issue rather htan resolve it
[17:10] <ikonia> I'm going back to what I'm doing
[17:11] <truepurple> ikonia, a moment ago you were saying 'how can we help', now your saying "I'm done" the latter makes the former seem insincere.
[17:11] <ikonia> truepurple: then you are reading my words with negative view
[17:12] <ikonia> anyway, I have other things to do rather than try to logic battle you
[17:12] <truepurple> ikonia, this is a two sided issue, I have been listening, but I have also been explaining. If you are 'done' because of said explaining, then it is you that are not listening, not me
[17:12] <ikonia> ok
[17:13] <ikonia> truepurple: if one of the other operator team members have time to discuss / help you, I'm sure they will
[17:13] <truepurple> ikonia, what words of yours did I misunderstand in a negative way, and what was your original meaning?
[17:13] <ikonia> and for the record I have no issue with the ban being removed by another team member
[17:14] <truepurple> ikonia, I still disagree with this decisions, and want to know how long I am banned, I want to finish this issue with the partition before llutz disappears
[17:14] <ikonia> if there is no other team member available, I suggest you leave come back later when the others are free or I had renewed stregnth
[17:15] <truepurple> ikonia, if we are talking hours, that will probably be too late, and that would be a major inconvenience for me considering how hard it is to find help, and the hassle of having to explain everything that already happened, not clearly understanding it all myself.
[17:15] <pangolin> truepurple: you are banned for 3 days. come back then and I will remove the ban after a brief discussion with you.
[17:15] <pangolin> have a nice day.
[17:16] <truepurple> pangolin, does that discussion require me to say I, and only I, did wrong?
[17:17] <pangolin> truepurple: we will discuss in 3 days.
[17:17] <pangolin> Please part this channel now.
[17:18] <truepurple> This is not fair, not in the least. At least its loads better then last time a OP misused powers on me, that was gross misuse beyond words, if you want to talk about the past.
[17:19] <truepurple> pangolin, are you a ops boss or something?
[17:19] <pangolin> I am the op who has decided to set your ban for 3 days
[17:20] <pangolin> if you continue to insists on more explanations before that time has elapse I will be forced to extend it.
[17:20] <truepurple> So you just randomly interjected that, not having any extra authority over another ops or knowing anything about the situation other then the conversation here?
[17:21] <pangolin> I have the authority granted to me by the Ubuntu irc council and by the original op who said he was fine with any other op removing the ban.
[17:21] <pangolin> Now please stop this and we will continue in 3 days.
[17:21] <truepurple> You are a mighty mighty tyrant of your little ant hill I see. So I have no choice I guess, but to keep on with my appeals
[17:22] <pangolin> I am the giant who kicks over the ant hill
[17:22] <pangolin> :)
[17:23] <truepurple> pangolin, I did not understand " who said he was fine with any other op removing the ban"
[17:24] <truepurple> what does that has to do with having it last 3 days?
[17:24] <pangolin> truepurple: This is the last time I say this. 3 days, no sooner.
[17:24] <truepurple> pangolin, So you will not explain?
[17:25] <pangolin> part this channel and do not return before then or I will extend it to 7 days
[17:25] <truepurple> very rude, bye then
[17:25] <pangolin> good bye
[18:23] <truepurple> I am getting trolled by a OPS!
[18:23] <ikonia> you are not getting trolled
[18:23] <ikonia> you are doing what I told you not to do in #ubuntu-beginners
[18:24] <ikonia> I told you to give straight honest information - or it causes a problem
[18:24] <ikonia> you are miss-leading people / hiding information from people trying to help you
[18:24] <ikonia> this is the reason you get confusing/problem help - and you're still doing it,
[18:24] <truepurple> I told you I didnt want my user name known, it isnt necessary, yet you blatantly disregard my wishes and falsely accuse me
[18:24] <ikonia> just give people the real question, with real data and they will help
[18:24] <ikonia> I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm stating the facts
[18:25] <truepurple> So instead of getting help, I have to defend myself from your attacks!
[18:25] <truepurple> BS!
[18:25] <truepurple> lier!
[18:25] <ikonia> you're not being attacked, you are miss-leading users
[18:25] <truepurple> LIER!
[18:25] <ikonia> truepurple: the logs in #ubuntu-beginners are public, so calling me a liar will make you look foolish
[18:25] <ikonia> and prove you to be untrustworthy
[18:26] <ikonia> I'll not continue this with you - start giving the info people need to help you,
[18:27] <truepurple> You are lying, and your lies are public
[18:27] <truepurple> Yes please desist trolling me!
[18:27] <truepurple> Stop harrassing me please!
[18:27] <truepurple> Your minimal help is not worth this mistreatment!
[18:28] <ikonia> if you mean asking you to give the real information rather than incorrect history that confuses the person helping you, then that is mistreatment
[18:28] <ikonia> please leave the channel and continue trying to get help with your miss-leading information
[18:29] <truepurple> I am appealing that I get some help with this terrible behavior from ops, anyone?
[18:29] <truepurple> Or do you guys just back each other up and never help with misbehaving ops?
[18:31] <truepurple> ikonia, I asked you not to list my user name, you blatantly did the opposite multiple times, for no apparent reason other then to piss me off. Yet you have the nerve to ask me not to PM you
[18:31] <truepurple> That is, my PC user name
[18:32] <ikonia> truepurple think it thorugh, your username is "top" secret , so you want to hide it, but you show me your ip address and IRC client, so that I can attack you and exploit you
[18:32] <ikonia> think it through, people are trying to get the information to help you, but you won't say as it's "secret", yet you will give me much more open/vunerable information
[18:32] <ikonia> think it through, people want info to help = "no chance, secret" stuff you can exploit and attack = "sure, here you go"
[18:33] <ikonia> not good
[18:33] <ikonia> yet you attack those asking for the information to help you
[18:33] <truepurple> Not top secret, but someone else mentioned it is possible it reduces my security slightly, and regardless I asked you not to, and you blatantly went against my wishes for no apparent reason then to anger me
[18:33] <ikonia> truepurple: you are alredy wide open
[18:33] <ikonia> why not deal with that, rather than worry about your username
[18:33] <ikonia> 67-7-98-98.frgo.qwest.net
[18:33] <ikonia> that's your IP
[18:33] <ikonia> your ISP
[18:34] <ikonia> I know you're using xchat
[18:34] <truepurple> Are you saying linux is so weak as you could hack my PC with just that?
[18:34] <ikonia> I know you're not running an ident server
[18:34] <ikonia> no, I'm saying the people who do'nt know how to manage their workstations make the system weak
[18:34] <ikonia> not Linux, the user
[18:34] <ikonia> but I'll leave you to go back to miss-leading users, then complaining that they are not helping you how you want
[18:34] <ikonia> please leave this channel and go back to wasting other peoples time
[18:35] <truepurple> I am saying that you did behavior with the intention of angering someone, and no other reason
[18:35] <ikonia> look at the other users in the channel, they are saying the SAME
[18:35] <ikonia> they want INFO
[18:35] <ikonia> it's not just me
[18:35] <ikonia> is everyone wrong to want info,
[18:35] <ikonia> get back to it, I'm done wasting time to trying to actually help you get help
[18:37] <truepurple> I have been giving information ikonia
[18:37] <pangolin> enough.
[18:37] <truepurple> The only thing missing from that screen shot was the mounting points, and I told them
[18:37] <ikonia> 18:34 < hobgoblin> no I'm not truepurple, it is obviosu to me that you try hard not to give people information when asked - as an example it has taken almost an hour to get a screenshot. Good luck.
[18:37] <ikonia> look at other people saying the same to you
[18:38] <ikonia> oops sorry pangolin didn't see you
[18:38] <pangolin> if you can't understand that you need to give specific information and ask specific questions to get the proper help then we can not help you.
[18:38] <truepurple> ikonia, so you convinced hobgoblin of your insane accusations, they still aren't true
[18:38] <pangolin> truepurple: Stop
[18:38] <truepurple> pangolin, I did give specific information asked for
[18:38] <pangolin> I don't care. you are wasting our time and yours.
[18:39] <truepurple> Why, because if one of your own is trolling, they are welcome to it?
[18:39] <pangolin> you are banned for 7 days from #ubuntu.
[18:39] <pangolin> good luck with your issues, please leave.
[18:40] <truepurple> I can get banned from a channel for inane reasons, yet ikonia is free to troll me with all his/her might, and if I complain, you lengthen the infair ban?! friggin ass
[18:40] <pangolin> ftr ikonia is a lot of things but a troll he is not.
[18:40] <truepurple> he is, he was
[18:40] <pangolin> you are behaving like a troll
[18:40] <truepurple> its a matter fo record
[23:59] <BarkingFish> evening guys - someone please keep an eye on hallman in #kubuntu - he's already had 2 warnings for abusive language, and doesn't seem to care one bit.
[23:59] <BarkingFish> He's obviously annoyed at something, we're trying to help and getting sworn at.
[23:59] <BarkingFish> ttyl.