[18:25] <ibeardslee> morning
[18:28] <hads> morning
[18:29] <sadsun> mornin'
[18:30] <hads> The last two mornings evolution has become unkillable after saying something like 'Saving user interface state'. I think I'll have to get around to trying something different.
[18:42] <ibeardslee> I use claws mail as well
[18:42] <ibeardslee> no calendaring though
[18:45] <hads> I tried claws for a while, must give it another go. Don't care about calendar. It seems very difficult to find the perfect mail client.
[18:49] <sadsun> thunderbird?
[18:53] <hads> Will give it another go, it just doesn't do it for me. Keyboard shortcuts especially.
[19:26] <ajmitch> morning
[20:10] <chilts> morning
[20:11] <sadsun> mornin'
[20:17] <thumper> morning
[20:17] <mwhudson> morning
[20:18] <mwhudson> hads: i use notmuch & really like it, but it's probably not for everyone :-)
[20:25] <thumper> hads: I moved to thunderbird
[20:25] <thumper> hads: it has a nifty gmail conversation view
[20:25] <thumper> hads: which is awesome most of the time, but a little slow over imap for massive conversations
[20:29] <mwhudson> thumper: like that enormous unity whinge thread? :-)
[20:29] <mwhudson> although that's gotten a bit more positive again in the last few days
[20:29] <thumper> mwhudson: not really
[20:30] <sadsun> unity is meant for touch-screens...
[20:31] <ibeardslee> it is interesting that unity has taught me a bit more about not relying on the mouse so much
[20:32] <sadsun> its ugly with those ridiculous big buttons, when u use just the mouse
[20:32] <sadsun> do u have a touch-screen?
[20:32] <ibeardslee> they can be made smaller (harder to do in unity-2d though)
[20:32] <ibeardslee> nope
[20:33] <sadsun> I use gnome-shell with docky
[20:35] <thumper> sadsun: the only truly massive buttons are on the home screen of the dash, and that is changing
[20:35] <thumper> sadsun: no I don't have a touch screen
[20:36] <thumper> I use unity on my laptop and desktop with synergy to connect
[20:36] <sadsun> I see, nice, why is Ubuntu leaving gnome behind?
[20:39] <thumper> sadsun: ubuntu has plans beyond what gnome currently has
[20:40] <thumper> sadsun: I'm sure you've heard the announcements about tablets, tvs and phones
[20:40] <sadsun> aye, I did
[20:40] <thumper> there are designs for a (mostly) consistent UI across all form factors
[20:40] <thumper> they do look very nice
[20:40] <thumper> and unfortunatley company confidential right now
[20:41] <thumper> controlling our own desktop shell gives us the flexibility to evolve and change
[20:41] <sadsun> I see, I do would like to have ubuntu on my smartphone
[20:41] <thumper> a lot of the gnome-shell core is controlled by red hat
[20:41] <thumper> people think "hey it is just gnome"
[20:41] <thumper> but the core committers, those that accept patches, work elsewhere
[20:41] <thumper> and we did hit issues with the first unity shell that was based on mutter and clutter
[20:42] <ibeardslee> heh clutter
[20:43] <ibeardslee> it does seem that there is a disconnect with the customer base, and aq bunch of dissatisfaction with the unity interface.
[20:43] <sadsun> couldnt canonical just merge with red hat?
[20:44] <ibeardslee> it seems to have been somewhat of tha PR disaster
[20:44] <ibeardslee> sadsun: Nooooooo
[20:44] <sadsun> o_O
[20:44] <sadsun> bad thing?
[20:44] <ibeardslee> very
[20:44] <thumper> ibeardslee: quite a few of the changes were driven by user testing
[20:45] <thumper> ibeardslee: the user testing group is now including existing ubuntu users
[20:45] <thumper> ibeardslee: where in the past they weren't
[20:45] <ibeardslee> redhat and canonical are very different beasts
[20:45] <thumper> sadsun: merging will never happen
[20:45] <ibeardslee> thumper: don't see much of that being pushed out in articles.
[20:46] <ibeardslee> yet to see a "Canonical: yeap we could have done better, but this is what we are doing and here is the direction we are going"
[20:46] <thumper> ibeardslee: there are some, but people don't like reading about good news
[20:46] <thumper> sensationalist articles get readers
[20:47] <ibeardslee> yes. but so do big announcements about direction
[20:48] <ibeardslee> I do imagine that there'd be a lot of "too late" responces to some directional announcements
[20:48] <ibeardslee> maybe I'm just following the wrong information streams to catch the good news
[20:51] <sadsun> hmm, OMGubuntu posted an interesting article: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/tomorrow-the-internet-starts-to-die/
[20:52] <ibeardslee> I like ubuntu, and what Canonical have done to help bring Linux to the masses.
[21:00] <thumper> ibeardslee: so what do you read?
[21:07] <ibeardslee> admitedly not a lot, mostly what I stumble across via twitter/facebook feeds .. the dumbing down of society.
[21:08] <ibeardslee> do you have any recommendations?
[21:08] <ibeardslee> happy to help spread the good news
[21:51] <thumper> ibeardslee: not off the top of my head
[21:57] <hads> mwhudson: I've (very briefly) looked at notmuch but was put off by the local storage.
[22:08] <olly_> morning