[02:11] <snap-l> Played with the B&N Tablet and Simple Nook
[02:11] <snap-l> I R impressed
[02:12] <rick_h_> yea?
[02:12] <rick_h_> they had the tablet there?
[02:12] <rick_h_> or the nook color?
[02:12] <snap-l> Well, the Tablet handled the killer PDFs
[02:12] <rick_h_> I though the tablet wasn't out until wed/thurs
[02:12] <snap-l> They just got the tablet in
[02:12] <rick_h_> ah, nice then
[02:12] <snap-l> It'll be out "tomorrow"
[02:12] <snap-l> Yeah
[02:12] <snap-l> found where the SD card is on the color / tablet
[02:13] <snap-l> I like the reader a lot better on the Tablet than on the color
[02:13] <snap-l> but the color is supposed to get an update soon
[02:13] <rick_h_> jcastro: ping
[02:14] <snap-l> My beef with teh Simple Touch Noon is that the PDFs can't be zoomed in without reflow
[02:14] <rick_h_> yea
[02:14] <snap-l> and you can't use landscape mode either
[02:15] <snap-l> but it's interesting that the reader application can get "stuck" but not require a reboot
[02:15] <snap-l> ie: you can kill the reader app
[02:41] <brousch> snap-l: don't get too used to the reader app. you will install cyanogenmod
[02:51] <jjesse> snap-l you get a new phone?
[03:51] <jjesse> is this thing on?
[11:41] <rick_h_> morning
[12:27] <snap-l> Morning
[12:29] <rick_h_> grumble grumble...
[12:30] <snap-l> That good, eh?
[12:30] <rick_h_> well been trying to "lang" my "bugfix" (adding one css class to something) since monday but my tests kept failing
[12:30] <snap-l> "lang"?
[12:30] <rick_h_> and I was told "oh, that looks random...run again" which takes 4 hours
[12:30] <rick_h_> sorry, land
[12:31] <snap-l> Was hoping I wasn't missing out on some new lingo in the bugverse
[12:31] <rick_h_> finally today buildbot breaks and everyone's like "Where did that come from?" and I've been trying to say it was broke since monday
[12:31] <snap-l> rick_h_: oops
[12:31] <rick_h_> so I beat my head on a wall thinking I did something horribly wrong...
[12:31] <rick_h_> my brain hurts from this week, and part is trying to dive in over my head to find out wtf is causing that bug to break lol
[12:32] <snap-l> I believe that's called "learning experience"
[12:32] <rick_h_> oh yea :P
[12:33] <snap-l> Someone is talking on the Python mailing list about implementing Python in Javacript
[12:34] <snap-l> and someone mentioned trying to compile pypy with pyjamas.
[12:34] <rick_h_> not enough node in my python
[12:34] <rick_h_> "well work around the GIL yet!"
[12:34] <snap-l> Hah
[12:36] <snap-l> I'm not sure I want to live in a world where languages sit on top of the Javascript interpreter. It's too much like Java, only more weird.
[13:03] <Wolfger> morning
[13:10] <brousch> werd
[13:20] <mydogsnameisrudy> morning
[13:20] <rick_h_> installing perl packages fun
[13:22] <Wolfger> woot
[13:23] <Wolfger> never heard of that package.... I'm'a try "use fun;" in my next script. :-)
[13:23] <rick_h_> hah, yea it's a winner
[13:23] <Wolfger> right underneath "use less('java');"
[13:25] <snap-l> I think you need a require instead of use
[13:25] <snap-l> "require less(java)"
[13:26] <mydogsnameisrudy> demands more fun
[13:28] <Wolfger> Haha! http://www.freep.com/article/20111116/COL41/111116013/Facebook-porn-attack-an-eyeful-many
[13:28] <Wolfger> Doesn't everybody use NoScript?
[13:28] <Wolfger> or common sense?
[13:28] <Wolfger> oh, wait.... Facebook users.... nevermind
[13:28] <brousch> nodoy uses noscript
[13:28] <brousch> nobody
[13:30] <rick_h_> greg-g: what did we use to run for imap filtering?
[13:34]  * Wolfger questions brousch's definition of "nobody"
[13:35] <Wolfger> I think more people use NoScript than Diaspora... ;-)
[13:35] <snap-l> rick_h_: it wasn't procmail, was it?
[13:35] <rick_h_> no, it was python based
[13:35] <rick_h_> blanking, I'll search for it later
[13:35] <snap-l> kk
[13:35] <rick_h_> bug figured I'd lazy-greg it since he probably still runs it :)
[13:36] <snap-l> rick_h_: You're really becoming the yoda of this room.
[13:36] <snap-l> "bug figured I'd"
[13:36] <snap-l> ;)
[13:36] <rick_h_> damn
[13:36] <rick_h_> I can't type today, did I mention I'm tired and head hurts?
[13:36] <rick_h_> actually, fighting off a cold everyone else is getting so I blame that
[13:37] <snap-l> Yeah, I have a cold as well
[13:37] <snap-l> getting over it
[13:37] <snap-l> started around Sunday-ish
[13:38] <brousch> Wolfger: ok, only the most paranoid geeks run noscript
[13:38] <Wolfger> We don't want to hear any excuses.
[13:39] <brousch> which is a very small number of people
[13:39] <Wolfger> paranoid?
[13:39] <Wolfger> Just safe.
[13:39] <Wolfger> also, helps cut down on the crap. Some sites are loaded with crap scripts that are all due to the ads
[13:40] <snap-l> Just run AdBlock
[13:40] <Wolfger> I run that too
[13:40] <snap-l> takes the crap out of the net
[13:40] <Wolfger> but it doesn't block scripts
[13:40] <snap-l> You're breaking the new web
[13:41] <Wolfger> I've seen the new web (on other people's computers). I have no idea how anybody can live without adblock and noscript
[13:41] <Wolfger> I might never get on the web again without them
[13:41] <brousch> i avoid those annoying web sites
[13:42] <brousch> if a web site is full of flash crap, ads, and rogue scripts, do i really want to be there?
[13:42] <snap-l> http://www.freep.com/article/20111116/NEWS06/111160395/No-such-thing-free-lunch-There-state-lawmakers-Lansing?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
[13:42] <Wolfger> I used somebody else's IE to get to a site one day and there were all these ads, and flashing lights, and pop-up windows, and I'm like "how can you stand to use the internet like this?"
[13:44] <Wolfger> no such thing as a free lunch.
[13:44] <Wolfger> The article that claims there is clearly points out the cost...
[13:44]  * Wolfger slaps a reporter
[13:45] <snap-l> The point is that there are lobbyists paying for lunches for legislators
[13:45] <snap-l> just pointing out something that probably has been going on since there were legislators
[13:47] <Wolfger> Oh yeah. Buying time with lawmakers is as old as the practice of making laws
[13:48] <Wolfger> I'm just grumping that they are completely ignoring the meaning of the saying "TANSTAAFL"
[13:49] <Wolfger> "free lunch" has never been about just money. It's the idea that you always have to do *something* to get your lunch, whether it's listen to a sermon or listen to a lobbyist.
[14:09] <Wolfger> http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/50928/dealing-with-profanity-in-source-code
[14:09] <Wolfger> soft expletives?
[14:16] <jjesse> cloud and ubuntu webcast going on thru bright talk right now if anyone is interested
[14:17] <jjesse> pretty boring so far, very high level lots of "this is what cloud computing" is
[14:19] <snap-l> Wolfger: I'd suggest staying away from p.se
[14:20] <rick_h_> hmm, what time was the android announcement stuff today?
[14:21] <Wolfger> snap-l: I forget... which se sites did you have the highest rep on? ;-)
[14:23] <snap-l> Wolfger: Shush
[14:23] <snap-l> Just because I rep-whored on a "what would I have done differently" question. ;)
[14:25] <Wolfger> and I'm pretty sure it was you that kept sending p.se links to this room, which caused me to have a login there in the first place.
[14:25] <rick_h_> hmm, does twit.tv not load for anyone else?
[14:26] <Wolfger> p.se is where I go when I want to feel superior to other people. Stack Overflow is where I go when I want to remember how little I really know.
[14:29] <snap-l> live.twit.tv
[14:29] <snap-l> but yeah, the site is offline
[14:29] <snap-l> drupal showing through
[14:41] <jjesse> hrmm on this ubuntu and cloud webcast mark is saying that canonical will start hosting clouds for customers
[14:41] <jjesse> w/ on demand provisioning
[14:42] <snap-l> Nice.
[14:43] <snap-l> You have to register to watch it?
[14:43] <snap-l> Screw that.
[14:43] <jjesse> yeah
[14:43] <jjesse> and its flashed based
[14:43] <jjesse> https://pages.canonical.com/ubuntu-cloud-jumpstart
[14:43] <snap-l> Oh well
[14:44] <jjesse> 9k and and you get 5 days of a canonical employee setting up a ubuntu cloud infrastructure
[14:44] <snap-l> Get started immediately with Ubuntu Cloud for $9,000
[14:44] <snap-l> Your cloud will run industry-standard software and be compatible with the major public clouds from HP, Rackspace and Amazon. You provide the hardware, we guarantee your cloud result.
[14:44] <snap-l> erm...
[14:46] <_stink_> can i send the 4 P-II machines i have in my basement?
[14:46] <jjesse_> yeah not quite sure how exciting that is
[14:47] <snap-l> I mean, if you're paying $9K for someone to just install Ubuntu on cloud machines, pardon me if I don't stand up and shout for joy.
[14:47] <jjesse> well they should be giving you some training/knoweldge transfer on how ot use it?
[14:48] <snap-l> I guess we're not the audience for this
[14:48] <jjesse> 9k for a week is normal consulting rate
[14:48] <jjesse> $225/hour
[14:48] <jjesse> not that bad, especially if that includes travel and expenses
[14:48]  * snap-l makes a note to come back as a consultant in his next life
[14:48] <_stink_> hah
[14:49] <Wolfger> nice work if you can get it
[14:49] <Wolfger> but how much time will you spend at $225/hr versus $0/hr?
[14:49] <snap-l> Anyone need a work-life coach? I'll stand over your shoulder and tell you "You're doing it wrong"
[14:49] <snap-l> $50/hr
[14:49] <snap-l> (cheap)
[14:50] <rick_h_> oooh, that sounds promising
[14:51] <snap-l> Apparently we're blowing up jjesse's internet. ;p)
[14:57] <jjesse> yes
[14:57] <jjesse> stupid crappy wifi at work
[16:29] <rick_h_> Blazeix: man, I'm not happy with the way things are looking: http://www.androidcentral.com/amazon-uk-has-galaxy-nexus-slated-dec-2
[16:29] <rick_h_> http://www.androidcentral.com/uk-galaxy-nexus-availability-updated-some-delayed-until-next-week
[16:30] <Blazeix> rick_h_: LA LA LA LA I can't hear you
[16:31] <rick_h_> Blazeix: ok fine, but when you get yours on time make sure to get mine as well
[16:31] <rick_h_> less I have to wait for the major delayed release date of Jan 2012 or some crap
[16:39] <krondor> they delay it much longer and everyone will just throw ICS Cyanogen on their existing phones :)
[16:44] <Blazeix> it will be delayed just long enough to get me interested in rumors for another upcoming phone.
[16:44] <rick_h_> Blazeix: you know you really wanted quad core anyway :P
[16:45] <Blazeix> htc zeta or bust
[16:46] <snap-l> Your Android lust is precious
[16:46] <snap-l> It's like hoping the next one will be the Jesus phone. ;)
[16:47] <snap-l> Come to the Apple side, where we wait every 6 months to see what Apple pinches off
[16:48] <Blazeix> I did the exact same thing with my current phone. I was following the motodroid from June to it's release in november.
[16:48] <rick_h_> same with my incredible
[16:48] <snap-l> Dueal core, quad core. Phsaw. Apple phones have "just enough cores"
[16:48] <rick_h_> Jan->june I believe
[16:48] <Blazeix> heh, apple cores
[16:49] <snap-l> Well, what sucks about Android is not the hardware, but figuring out what the carrier screwed out of existence.
[16:50] <Blazeix> i've been going with the 'google experience' phones so far, so i haven't seen that
[16:50] <snap-l> "we wanted to differentiate our phone by making it unable to do anything with Bluetooth"
[16:50] <snap-l> (or some silly shit like that)
[16:52] <snap-l> You need a domineering personality (like, say, Steve Jobs) to say to the carriers: "If you so much as remove a period from this OS, I will come to your office, pop your head off like a cheap Pez dispenser, and use your bloody neck as a commode".
[16:54] <Blazeix> that's sort of the idea of the 'google experience' branding. you don't have sense, blur, etc.
[17:03] <brousch> snap-l: no, steve jobs would have cried until the carriers gave in due to embarrasement
[17:04] <snap-l> brousch: That's because he wouldn't have had any TP
[17:04] <snap-l> That would be upsetting.
[17:05] <brousch> had to go have my wife's car towed. took 90mins
[17:05] <brousch> well, 2 hours if you include my drive time
[17:05] <brousch> darn subaru is falling apart at only 120k miles
[17:06] <jcastro> snap-l: are you in RO still?
[17:06] <snap-l> jcastro: Yep
[17:07] <jcastro> so I just called Congressman Peter's office
[17:07] <jcastro> to say I wanted him to stop SOPA
[17:07] <jcastro> and like, a real person answered
[17:07] <jcastro> she was nice
[17:07] <jcastro> anyway, 202-225-5802
[17:07] <jcastro> call
[17:07] <snap-l> jcastro: Thanks.
[17:07] <jcastro> Senator Levin has a voice mail, and I left one there too
[17:07] <jcastro> http://www.contactingthecongress.org/cgi-bin/newseek.cgi?site=ctc2011&state=mi
[17:08] <snap-l> Yeah, I senr e-mail
[17:08] <jcastro> don't send email, they don't read that shit
[17:08] <jcastro> call
[17:11] <snap-l> Called
[17:12] <snap-l> And yes, they have real people answeing the phone
[17:13] <brousch> americans?
[17:13] <snap-l> Yep
[17:24] <snap-l> http://www.engadget.com/photos/hp-envy-15-envy-17-and-envy-17-3d/#4607468 <- Apparently it's time for the cheap knockoffs
[17:28] <brousch> i was under the impression that all android phones were cheap knock-offs of iphones
[17:32] <Blazeix> the hp envy model has been around forever
[17:32] <Blazeix> forever is two years in this case
[17:36] <greg-g> rick_h_: imapfilter, which is a great name, straight and to the point :)
[17:37] <snap-l> Blazeix: You lie. I just saw it on reddit, so it must be more recent. ;)
[17:38] <snap-l> I only live in the now
[18:14] <snap-l> Just a reminder that tonight is Detroit-ish Coffee House Coders at 8pm. Hope to see you there! http://ur1.ca/5v9ex
[18:14] <snap-l> lmorchard: ^^
[18:14] <snap-l> lmorchard: ^^
[18:14] <snap-l> lmorchard: ^^
[18:14] <Wolfger> snap-l: Detroit-ish?
[18:15] <snap-l> Yeah, it's royal Oak, but if you say that, nobody'll come
[18:15] <Wolfger> the location is not Detroit. Are any of the attendees?
[18:15] <Wolfger> suburban CHC
[18:15] <snap-l> Pfft
[18:15] <Wolfger> Metro Detroit CHC
[18:15] <Wolfger> wayne county chc
[18:15] <snap-l> Royal Oak isn't Wayne County
[18:16] <Wolfger> tri-county chc
[18:16] <snap-l> How about the "just show the fuck up" CHC? :)
[18:16] <Wolfger> what the hell? I just got an e-mail from MySpace.
[18:17] <snap-l> HIT THE DIRT!
[18:17] <Wolfger> somebody I never heard of friended me there
[18:17] <Wolfger> I did not know MySpace still existed
[18:17] <snap-l> D3WD, TX 4 T3H 4DD$
[18:17] <Wolfger> What next? Geocities?
[18:17] <snap-l> HERE'S MTY N00 ALBUM FRUM MY B4ND
[18:17] <Wolfger> LiveJournal?
[18:18] <Wolfger> actually, I know LJ is still around. I know some people still use it
[18:18] <Wolfger> I don't know why...
[18:18] <snap-l> http://mfile.akamai.com/65764/live/reflector:39480.asx?bkup=39655&prop=n <- Here's how the Internet dies
[18:21] <greg-g> yep, pathetic,. I had to stop watching
[18:22] <jjesse> that the SOPA Live stream?
[18:23] <snap-l> Yeah
[18:23] <snap-l> This is ridiculous
[18:24] <jjesse> whose stupid idea was it?
[18:24] <jjesse> this law?
[18:24] <snap-l> This Marino  guy is a jackass
[18:26] <snap-l> Please do tell people that they have the technology to detect infringing material, even though we don't.
[18:28] <snap-l> Man, this is like a room full of blind people trying to build an elephant
[18:34] <Wolfger> will somebody please point out the numerous examples of Big Content filing takedown notices against IP they don't actually own?
[18:35] <Wolfger> they already abuse the existing power, and they want more?
[19:01] <snap-l> Amazing that Mr. Marino knows that Google can figure out unauthorized content, when even the courts can't  sort out copyright law. #SOPA
[19:03] <ColonelPanic001> \o/
[19:07] <greg-g> btw, did you all see this https://github.com/github/gitignore ?
[19:07] <rick_h_> ha nice
[19:08] <brousch> geez
[19:09] <rick_h_> http://www.cracked.com/article_18720_7-famous-movie-flaws-that-were-explained-in-deleted-scenes.html made my day
[19:09] <snap-l> hah
[19:09] <snap-l> Listening to a concerence call.
[19:09] <snap-l> aka: the Q3 WTF just happened.
[19:14] <ColonelPanic001> snap-l: maybe a dumb question, but what's the confusion over Doyle's writings? Aren't they all public domain?
[19:14] <ColonelPanic001> it was, like, along time ago and stuff
[19:21] <snap-l> you might think. ;)
[19:21] <snap-l> Look it up. :)
[19:24] <ColonelPanic001> I do think
[19:24] <ColonelPanic001> how dare u
[19:25] <Wolfger> ColonelPanic001: citation?
[19:25] <ColonelPanic001> My head, 2011
[19:25] <ColonelPanic001> (c)
[19:25] <Wolfger> well, we'll have to crack your head open to see
[19:26] <ColonelPanic001> DCMA prevents circumventing the skull
[19:26] <Wolfger> not at all. It just punishes those who do.
[19:26] <ColonelPanic001> I have no retort. Damnit. Alright, make it quick.
[19:26] <Wolfger> now I'm beginning to doubt your assertion that you think...
[19:27] <Wolfger> :-)
[19:27] <ColonelPanic001> I think that's bad.
[19:28] <Wolfger> I think it should be quitting time
[19:28] <ColonelPanic001> man, I can't read about copyrights. I'm working with Magento bullcrap, that's enough of a headache
[19:28] <ColonelPanic001> but, TIL. I thought those were pretty much in the clear
[19:28] <snap-l> nope
[19:29] <ColonelPanic001> well, see to that
[19:29] <snap-l> Anything from the 1930s is murky
[19:29] <ColonelPanic001> we should just ask him about it.
[19:29] <snap-l> 1930s to 1976 iirc
[19:29] <brousch> magneto?
[19:29] <snap-l> greg-g can corroborate and correct
[19:29] <ColonelPanic001> Magento is a really fancy e-commerce PHP site
[19:30] <ColonelPanic001> it's also lacking in a shred of decent documentation
[19:30] <ColonelPanic001> "lol figure it out dumbass" is about it
[19:30] <ColonelPanic001> "hope u like 2 google 4 blogs kthx"
[19:30] <brousch> php and e-commerce
[19:30] <brousch> you must enjoy pain
[19:31] <brousch> maybe it goes back to the thinking thing
[19:34] <krondor> wow I didn't realize SOPA was assuming jurisdiction over all us registry domain names.
[19:35] <krondor> so it can assert control over all .net, .com, .org, etc.. because they're owned by us registry
[19:35] <ColonelPanic001> brousch: it might. it might.
[19:35] <greg-g> anything between 1923 and '63 is in this "it depends" state wrt to copyright. That was when formalities were required to gain and retain copyright protection (ie: registration, marking with the (C) on the work, and renewal after so many years)
[19:37] <Wolfger> Copyright should be a lot simpler than that. "Is the author still alive? (y/n)"
[19:37] <snap-l> And for animation, who is the author?
[19:38] <snap-l> The story writer? The artists? the story-boarders? the tweeners?
[19:38] <Wolfger> If yes, he owns it. If not, and he wasn't murdered for the sake of stealing his stuff, it's public domain.
[19:39] <Wolfger> well, it gets complicated with corporate animation productions
[19:39] <Wolfger> but generally there is an original creator(s) of very limited number
[19:39] <snap-l> collaborative efforts = complications
[19:39] <Wolfger> everybody else is just hired help
[19:40] <snap-l> Wolfger: Dangerous territory. ;)
[19:41] <Wolfger> but under no circumstances should a corporation ever own a copyright
[19:41] <snap-l> You just called The Funk Brothers "hired hands" and not creative folks
[19:41] <Wolfger> who are the funk brothers, and why do I care?
[19:42] <snap-l> They worked on just about every album from a little place called "Motown"
[19:42] <Wolfger> OK. Hired help.
[19:43] <Wolfger> doesn't mean they aren't "creative"... just that they aren't the creators
[19:43] <snap-l> "Shadows of Motown" is the documentary you need to watch
[19:43] <Wolfger> k
[19:43] <snap-l> Well, they assigned copyright, yes.
[19:43] <snap-l> And assigned it to Motown Records (a corporation)
[19:44] <Wolfger> which brings me right back to "under no circumstances...."
[19:44] <snap-l> Also, what of the works of JRR Tolkein? (c) or !(c)
[19:45] <Wolfger> The man wrote books. He is no longer alive that I know of. Therefore, his books should be public domain.
[19:46] <Wolfger> The intended purpose of copyright is to protect content creators and enable them to profit from their work.
[19:46] <Wolfger> no more content creator, no more copyright
[19:46] <snap-l> but you're denying their children royalties
[19:47] <Wolfger> boo hoo
[19:47] <snap-l> and what about Robert Jordan (sp) and the Wheel of Time
[19:47] <Wolfger> what about?
[19:47] <snap-l> is the only book under (c) the latest one by Brian Sanderson?
[19:47] <snap-l> Robert Jordan passed away
[19:47] <Wolfger> would seem so, wouldn't it?
[19:48] <rick_h_> http://blog.ezyang.com/2011/11/how-to-read-haskell/
[19:49] <Wolfger> do you feel there is something special about Robert Jordan's case that warrants further copyright protection?
[19:49] <Blazeix> rick_h_: I loved that post
[19:50] <Blazeix> especially the "ignore everything after ::" I've been doing that since the beginning :)
[19:50] <snap-l> Wolfger: Nah, Wheel of Time just generic fantasy ;)
[19:50] <rick_h_> Blazeix: yea, not all the way through it. Deserves some time once I kick this headache
[19:50]  * snap-l pokes rick_h_
[19:50] <rick_h_> lol
[19:50] <rick_h_> snap-l: ?
[19:50] <snap-l> Wolfger: Nah, Wheel of Time just generic fantasy ;) <- rick_h_
[19:50] <rick_h_> you have to be nice to me, I've spent my afternoon reading and filling out benefits paperwork
[19:50] <rick_h_> I'm likely to go postal at any moment
[19:51] <Wolfger> lol
[19:51] <snap-l> rick_h_: Um, about that ride tonight...
[19:51] <snap-l> I just moved. to siberia
[19:51] <snap-l> last minute travel
[19:51] <snap-l> ;)
[19:51] <snap-l> rick_h_: I hate benefits paperwork
[19:52] <rick_h_> it makes no sense
[19:52] <rick_h_> and none of the names match up so you're never sure which things you are or aren't in
[19:52] <rick_h_> and it has a ton of fields that may or may not need to be filled out by you
[19:52] <rick_h_> I just sign and hope when my leg falls off it's covered
[19:52] <rick_h_> and supposedly, I'm semi intelligent
[19:52] <rick_h_> wtf do the rest of the world do?
[19:52] <greg-g> "14:46 <   Wolfger> The intended purpose of copyright is to protect content creators and enable them to profit from their work."  WRONG!
[19:53] <snap-l> rick_h_: And fill in the same info over and over and over
[19:53] <rick_h_> ruh roh
[19:53] <rick_h_> someone set a greg-g bomb off
[19:53]  * snap-l ducks under the desk
[19:53] <Wolfger> ok, g-man, educate me
[19:54] <greg-g> Wolfger: copyright (and patent) comes from the contsitution. Article 1, section 8. "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;"
[19:54] <greg-g> "to promote the progress of science and the useful arts"
[19:54] <greg-g> period.
[19:55] <brousch> rick_h_: glad it's not just me
[19:55] <greg-g> to promote progress is the only acceptable answer to "why is there copyright" it is firmly not to ensure people get paid.
[19:55] <ColonelPanic001> wat
[19:55] <Wolfger> greg-g: that's not what the U.S. Copyright Office claims
[19:55] <Wolfger> :-p
[19:55] <_stink_> a commie wrote our Constitution??
[19:55] <jjesse> i got a response back from my representative
[19:55] <jjesse> not my senators
[19:55] <ColonelPanic001> TIL again! wtf
[19:56] <greg-g> others rephrase it to be "to incentivize creation"
[19:56] <Wolfger> "It is a principle of American law that an author of a work may reap the fruits of his or her intellectual creativity for a limited period of time. Copyright is a form of protection provided by the laws of the United States for original works of authorship, including [...]"
[19:56] <Wolfger> http://copyright.gov/circs/circ1a.html
[19:56] <greg-g> Wolfger: onh snap, citing a circular! ;)
[19:57] <Wolfger> LOL
[19:58] <snap-l> Well, it does show a disconnect between intent and execution
[19:58] <snap-l> Same with Patents
[19:58]  * greg-g nods
[19:59] <_stink_> yeah, i'd consider the USPTO one of the worst sources on what patents are supposed to look like.
[19:59] <greg-g> also, let us not forget the first amendment. Free Speech (and using other people's copyrighted works in your free speech) is a "balance" that is applied to copyright so that we have a vigurous and healthy culture of debate
[19:59] <Wolfger> but I fail to see how the Constitution does not provide protection "to get paid" as you claim <--greg-g
[20:00] <Wolfger> "exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries" most certainly covers that. They don't need to spell it out.
[20:00] <greg-g> well, the intended purpose is not *only* to "get paid"  Yes, incentivizing creation is good. Over incentivizing (or, incentivizing dead people, eg CTEA) is bad
[20:00] <_stink_> well, i think if you assume the Constitution does not provide what it does not say, it's clearly not there.
[20:00] <snap-l> The conssitution does not use the words "get paid"
[20:00] <Wolfger> correct
[20:01] <greg-g> also, I would take issue with your "life of the author/creator" being equal to copyright term
[20:01] <greg-g> I think that is too long
[20:01] <snap-l> I wonder what might have happened had The Lord of the Rings became PD
[20:01] <greg-g> so did our founding fathers. 28 years. If (and only if) you paid to register your copyright (a nominal fee). ie: showing that you actually cared.
[20:02] <Wolfger> well, the only thing everybody agrees on is that copyright is only meant to be "for a limited time". Nobody agrees on what that time should be.
[20:02] <snap-l> Wolfger: And that's the problem
[20:02] <greg-g> sure, of course
[20:02] <greg-g> brb
[20:03] <snap-l> I also find it funny that Walt Disney essentially plundered the PD because it was unlicensed content, and then turned around and locked it up in the disney vaults.
[20:03] <snap-l> Just try making an animated feature called "Cinderella"
[20:03] <Wolfger> I just think it makes sense that since the idea is to "promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors", then under only very special circumstances should that time ever exceed the life of the author or inventor
[20:03] <greg-g> sure, undoubtedly
[20:03] <Wolfger> and by "special circumstances", I pretty much mean foul play.
[20:04] <snap-l> so the "last lecture" should be PD?
[20:04] <Wolfger> anyhow, I got my wish... it's quitting time. See you all tomorrow.
[20:04] <snap-l> since the dude pretty much died months after he gave it
[20:05] <greg-g> that's why basing it around life of the author is messy
[20:05] <greg-g> and why I like the idea of 28 years. period.
[20:11] <jrwren> zomg, copyright discussion here is like echo chamber central.
[20:12] <jrwren> i like 7 yrs period.
[20:12] <jrwren> the internets ain't nothing but a digital printing press. 7 yrs was good then. its more than good now.
[20:13] <jrwren> and IIRC, it was 14yrs when the US was founded, but that was carried over from the mother land.
[20:13] <jrwren> its been a while since I read "Free Culture"
[20:15] <jrwren> 7yrs would be SO awesome... all sorts of b.s. free software would be public domain.
[20:15] <jrwren> imagine not having to worry about the license of source code for anything prior to 2004.
[20:15] <jrwren> zomg!
[20:15] <jrwren> the commercial applications alone!
[20:16] <jrwren> talk about "free culture"
[20:16] <jcastro> hey greg-g
[20:16] <jrwren> sheesh.
[20:16] <jcastro> I called my congressman today
[20:16] <jcastro> I deserve a hippie hug
[20:16] <jrwren> jcastro: your MI congressman?
[20:16] <jrwren> jcastro: help me with my ifstate askubuntu question :)
[20:19] <snap-l> I need a hippie hug as well
[20:20] <snap-l> jrwren: So Windows Xp would be PD under that
[20:20] <jrwren> right.
[20:20]  * snap-l thinks there would be some "Exception" for service packs creating (c)
[20:20] <brousch> all life is connected. greg-g can hug a tree in SF and that hug will travel at the speed of love to the tree in your backyard
[20:20] <jrwren> service pack code and patches newer than 2004 would stlil be (c)
[20:21] <jrwren> AND, just because a binary was released doesn't mean its source is PD
[20:21] <jrwren> but XP binaries would be PD
[20:21] <jrwren> all binaries for that matter.
[20:21] <snap-l> I'd love to see the license agreement with that in place
[20:23] <greg-g> jcastro: :) well done *hug*
[20:24] <snap-l> i called too
[20:24] <snap-l> (even though jcastro guilted me into calling instead of just relying on e-mail)
[20:24] <jcastro> calling a human > spam
[20:25] <jcastro> during the hearing one of the proponents was like "at starbucks this morning some kid called me the guy trying to kill the internet, that's not what this bill is about!"
[20:25] <jcastro> I was like "haha what a shithead."
[20:25] <jcastro> ends up he's the congressman for southern florida, LOL
[20:25] <jcastro> "would suck to be represented  by that guy .... OH WAIT."
[20:26] <greg-g> snap-l: then you get a hippie hug too *hug*
[20:29] <snap-l> greg-g: *swoon*
[20:29] <snap-l> Thank you.
[20:29] <greg-g> :D
[20:30] <_stink_> careful, dreadlocks are contagious
[20:31]  * brousch rubs his head on greg-g vigorously
[20:31] <brousch> i'll take dreadlock over nolocks
[20:33] <snap-l> I'll take dreadlocks over bollocks.
[22:28] <snap-l> http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html
[22:41] <snap-l> Interesting...
[22:41] <snap-l> Didn't realize that DHCP would set hostname based on the machine name
[22:42] <snap-l> ie: if I call a machine snookums, but don't add it to the DHCP table on tomato, I can still ssh to snookums.