/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/17/#ubuntu-design.txt

MacSlowgreetings everybody08:07
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om26erJohnLea, Hi! I was wondering what do you thing for the launcher to have blurred background all the time?12:03
om26erwas it considered at some stage?12:04
JohnLeaom26er; the launcher background should be identical to the Dash, alt-tab, etc... it is the same material and therefor should have the same blur, etc...12:04
JohnLeaom26er; not having it is a bug12:04
om26erJohnLea, currently when the dash is not opened and we reveal the launcher from the left edge, its solve transparent with no blur12:05
JohnLeaom26er; if there is not a bug reported already about this, feel free to report it and ping me the bug number12:05
JohnLeaom26er; yes, this is a bug12:05
om26ers/solve/sole12:05
om26erJohnLea, I was in the process of reporting the bug already :-) i will ping you in a few minutes12:06
JohnLeaom26er; great, thx ;-)12:06
om26erJohnLea, bug 891575 :-)12:08
om26erhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/89157512:08
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mainerrorQuick question. I've asked this after UDS-O already but I know that you guys have been quite busy.13:30
mainerrorWhat is the status on the Ubuntu animal logos in SVG format?13:31
mainerrorDo you plan to release them?13:31
wendar[11:43:05] <sladen> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Precise  until there's somewhere more appropriate13:38
mainerrorOh nice.13:39
wendarHi all14:00
MacSlowhey wendar14:00
wendarWe're going to have an (informal) meeting here in channel14:00
MacSlowwendar, oh... Allison... had no idea this is your nick :)14:01
wendarWe're talking about this blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-ux-participation14:01
wendarMacSlow: :)14:01
charline_wendar, I'm here.14:02
MacSlowhey charline_14:02
wendarhi charline_14:02
wendardoctormo isn't on yet, but will be here soon14:04
wendarI'd like to start off with some introductions, anyone who's interested in this project.14:04
wendarI'll start14:05
wendarjust paste in a sentence or two when you can14:05
wendarI'm Allison Randal, years ago I worked as designer. Most of my time is development/packaging these days, but I still do the occasional book cover or graphic piece for my slides. I'm looking forward to working on some user journey's for Ubuntu.14:06
charline_I'm Charline Poirier, currently the acting head of design as well as the user research programme lead.14:07
charline_I tend to look at design from the users' point of view and its impact on users14:08
MacSlowOla... I'm MacSlow (member of Canonical's DX-team, did NotifyOSD... now working on unity) I'm here to help and mentor anything technical and guide community people about best practises for asset/artwork flow designer->engineer.14:09
MacSlowahm... real name being Mirco Müller... sorry :)14:09
wendarokay, so a few bits and pieces to start14:16
wendardoctormo created a launchpad team yesterday14:16
wendarhttps://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design14:16
mhall119I thought we already had an LP team, didn't cjohnston make one at UDS?14:17
wendarmhall119: link?14:17
wendarand, hi14:17
wendarthanks for creating the DesignTeam wikipage14:18
mhall119wendar: I'm looking, I could be wrong14:18
mainerrorSo everyone interested in the community design team is supposed to introduce himself?14:18
mhall119ok, I'm not seeing anything, so maybe he didn't14:18
wendarmainerror: yes, please do14:18
wendarmainerror: just a little about yourself, or your interest in Ubuntu design14:20
mainerrorAlright. My name is Octavian Damiean. I've started as a web-designer and moved to mobile applications design. I'm involved in the Q&A platform Ask Ubuntu and am generally very interested in design and user experience.14:20
mainerrorThis is something I made for the Natty release.14:21
mainerrorhttp://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts/36648#3664814:21
MacSlowmainerror, oh... never seen that... sweet!14:21
mhall119I've seen it, very helpful14:21
wendarmainerror: oh, neat, I had that as my wallpaper for most of Natty. Never knew who made it.14:22
mainerror:)14:22
mainerrorGlad you like it.14:22
cjohnstonmhall119, the team I made was strictly for tha brand guideline stuff14:22
mhall119oh, ok14:23
cjohnstonwhich I'm still waiting to hear from yaili  on if we can get access to the site14:23
wendarcjohnston: ah, makes sense. Yes, we have two blueprints working on this channel.14:24
wendarmhall119: introduce yourself?14:24
mhall119My name is Michael Hall, I'm a web developer for Canonical ISD, as well as community web projects such as Summit and LoCo Team Portal.14:25
mhall119I'm not a designer, but I am a consumer of the product of designs both from the Canonical design team, as well as community designers14:25
mhall119It's my goal here to bring the two sets of designers together, to communicate and work collaboratively to improve the quality and quantity of design products available for Ubuntu14:26
cjohnstonwendar,I dont know that we had a bp, it was am overview of the new guideline stuff.. and during that session I asked the design team members who were present if they would be willing to join a chanel to make communication more open and available14:27
wendarmaybe I should say two projects/initiaitives?14:28
wendarcjohnston: introduce yourself?14:28
wendarcjohnston: and thanks for all the help getting this set up14:28
cjohnstonwhat he said except I'm not canonical.. im on my cell phone so thats it for now14:29
wendaram I missing anyone else who'd like to do an introduction now?14:31
mhall119Chris works on several community websites, he's the project lead for the LoCo Team Portal and staus.ubuntu.com, and is heavily involved in Summit as well (and probably more that I can't think of)14:31
mhall119daker: are you around to introduce yourself?14:32
wendarSo, doctormo and I worked together on some initial drafting yesterday, to start filling in details on the new team14:36
wendarhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam14:36
wendarhi doctormo-other14:37
mhall119morning doctormo-other14:38
wendardoctormo-other: introduce yourself?14:38
doctormo-otherHey guys,14:38
doctormo-otherI'm doctormo aka Martin Owens, originally a programmer with media skills I've moved over the years into design, art and production workflows.14:39
wendardoctormo-other: I just put up our draft text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam, for all to comment on14:40
doctormo-othergreat,14:40
mainerrorLooks good so far.14:41
doctormo-otherThis is fantastic wendar, brilliant. I've just updated critique to peer review.14:42
doctormo-otherwendar: The contact should just be the CC until we have a leadership in place. No need to mention canonical vs community.14:42
mhall119wendar, doctormo-other: do you think we can work something into the mission statement about making the designs work available for reuse under an open license?14:43
wendardoctormo-other: good idea, added14:45
wendarmhall119: yes, makes sense14:45
charline_wendar:  would it be worth specifying the diversity of skills that is implied in 'design', visual, UX, interaction, brand, etc.?14:46
charline_wendar:  and when we mention the user journey, we could map out how these different skills collaborate14:47
mainerrorI think a list of helpful resources might be good.14:47
mhall119mainerror: +114:47
wendarcharline_: yes, very good14:48
mhall119links to the branch guidelines (and new portal once it's live), etc14:48
mainerrorA glossary, links to good design, UX, etc. blogs.14:48
doctormo-othermhall119: Added in a bit in the mission and a bit in the rules.14:49
doctormo-othermainerror: That's be great, do you know where to find them?14:49
mainerrorWell I can only share what I use/read. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/14:50
mhall119doctormo-other: wendar: do you think we should decide on a few "preferred" licenses?14:50
wendarmhall119: it looks like doctormo listed CC-BY and CC-BY-SA14:51
wendarmhall119: are there others it'd be good to add to that?14:51
doctormo-othermhall119: In my experience, yes. There are only 4 or 5 useful licenses and most other things are disruptive.14:51
mhall119wendar: we should pick some code licenses too, GPL/AGPL, for things like html and css files that are produced14:52
doctormo-otherOthers include GPL (not really for art), Public Domain Declaration (not a license), CC0.14:52
wendarmhall119: ah, yes, that's true, also for javascript14:53
wendarcharline_: would you like to write a sentence or two on the different skillsets of design, and how they interact?14:54
charline_wendar:  sure14:55
doctormo-othermainerror: That looks good.14:55
mhall119wendar: trademark policy is likely something that's going to come up repeatedly, we should both link to the current trademark policy, as well as set some guidelines for how and when designs should use it14:57
doctormo-otherhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources14:58
wendarmhall119: we might want to do a subpage on the wiki...14:58
wendarhah, doctormo beat me to it :)14:58
mainerrordoctormo-other: Ah nice.14:58
doctormo-othermainerror: Feel free to expand the entry.14:58
wendarmhall119: so, maybe a "Licensing" heading there?14:59
mhall119on the Resources page?14:59
wendarmhall119: or, if we want more explanation than links, could be DesignTeam/Licensing15:00
yailicjohnston: working on it still, sorry, I'll commit to having something up next week (eek!)15:00
mhall119wendar: I think a /Licensing page would work best, we may be asked for a short explanation for why we prefer a given license15:00
wendarmhall119: sounds good, would you like to do a first pass on that page?15:01
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cjohnstonthanks yaili15:02
wendarThe last topic for today is picking a small first project15:04
mhall119wendar: sure thing15:05
wendardo people have some thoughts there?15:05
wendarit'd be nice to pick something small at first15:05
wendarmaybe even a 1-week project15:05
wendarso we start getting in the flow15:05
wendarand have something "finished"15:06
cjohnstonwhat are you wanting in a project15:06
MacSlowI remember someone mentioning something about "branding"-work in a free game... not sure though what the "branding" actually meant in that context.15:06
mhall119https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Licenses15:07
mhall119how about making a logo for the new team?15:08
wendarmhall119: page looks awesome, thanks15:08
wendarmhall119: doctormo snuck one in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85284103/ubuntu-design-64.png15:09
wendarmhall119: I see a stylized "D", and a speech bubble for collaboration15:09
wendar(this is on the launchpad team)15:10
wendarmhall119: hmmm... I also see a paintbrush15:10
wendarcjohnston: looking for something complex enough to need a simple user journey15:11
wendarmhall119: yeah, doctormo suggested a game, and I like the idea, it's simple enough not to get bogged down, and complex enough that there is a user experience impact15:12
mhall119a new game, or redesign an existing one?15:13
wendarmhall119: reviewing an existing one15:13
wendarI pointed at http://fourdigits.sourceforge.net/ (which is really, really simple)15:14
wendarI happened to be mentoring the developer on packaging it last weekend15:14
wendarbut, didn't ask the developer if he'd be interesting in collaborating on something like this15:15
mhall119is there anything in the default install we can do?15:15
MacSlowwendar, looks like a valid first target15:15
mhall119solitaire or something?15:15
mhall119gbrainy might be a good candidate, but being mono it may be on it's way out15:16
* wendar poking through the games preinstalled...15:17
mhall119we could make an Ubuntu theme for the solitaire card deck15:17
wendaryeah, gbrainy was the first I looked at15:17
doctormo-otherMy suggestion was atlantik, the monopoly game.15:17
doctormo-othermhall119: I thought there already was an Ubuntu theme?15:17
mhall119doctormo-other: mine has the Gnome foot15:18
wendardoctormo-other: I liked that one too15:19
wendar(the monopoly-ish game)15:19
doctormo-othermhall119: Maybe something that disapeared in a package update, because I remember it in 8.1015:20
mhall119doctormo-other: could be, could have only happened with the Gnome3 updates15:20
mhall119either way, I don't see an Ubuntu card theme15:20
wendarwhatever we pick, it should be something where we can collaborate with the upstream developer15:20
doctormo-otherI agree wendar15:21
wendarso, talk with them ahead of time to see if they'd like to participate15:21
doctormo-otherAye aye15:21
mhall119I'm not sure if upstream would want ubuntu-branded cards, but they might take an unbranded "human" or "light" themed one15:21
mhall119ok, whatever you guys pick, let me know and I'll reach out to the project developers15:22
wendarmhall119: we may have to go the other direction, reach out first, and pick based on which upstreams are willing15:22
wendarwe could reach out to all 415:22
mhall119I'd like to do something in the default install if we can, because it'll give the most exposure to the team right away15:23
mainerrormhall119: +115:23
wendargbrainy, gtkatlantic, solitaire, 4digits15:23
wendarmhall119: yes, I agree15:23
MacSlowand what about considering moving a game into the default install... if their upstream is very collaborative?15:23
mainerrordoctormo-other: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources - I'll add more over time.15:23
wendarMacSlow: also possible15:24
mhall119MacSlow: we'd have to discuss that with the platform team, it will depend on the size and stability of the game15:24
wendarMacSlow: (I'm moving 4 digits that way)15:24
doctormo-othermainerror: Great15:24
wendarmhall119: it will also partly depend on the visual appeal of the game15:24
wendarmhall119: something really simple and beautiful would have a good chance of getting in15:25
MacSlowmhall119, sure CD-size is always an issue... but assuming mono moves out... that would free  a lot15:25
doctormo-otherNow there's an idea, incetivised design.15:25
mhall119wendar: right, but the visual appeal we can do something about :)15:26
mhall119the size and stability, not as much15:26
mainerrorI would probably free a lot but our plan to get a game in might collide with someones plan to get something else in.15:26
mainerrorIt would probably free a lot but our plan to get a game in might collide with someones plan to get something else in.15:26
mainerrorSorry. IRC Cloud is being weird right now.15:27
mhall119working with something already in the default isntall would definitely be easier, but a small game like 4digits we can probably get in15:27
doctormo-otherwendar: If the idea for trying to get it into thed efault is a good one to follow up, then count gtkatlantik out, it'll have potential legal dangers.15:28
wendardoctormo-other: ah, too bad15:28
wendarother candidates to add?15:28
mainerrorGotta run for now. Bye.15:29
wendarmainerror: thanks!15:30
wendarit looks like the Puzzles section of the software center has some simple bits15:33
wendar(not default, but potential)15:33
wendarhow about mhall119, you contact the solitare folks, and I'll contact the 4digits guy, and anyone else can contact developers of little games that look good15:34
wendarand see what kind of responses we get next week?15:34
mhall119wendar: sounds good15:36
wendarother thoughts before we wrap up this meeting?15:37
wendarokay, thanks all!15:42
mhall119thanks wendar15:57
dakermhall119, introduce myself to ?15:58
mhall119daker: to everyone here, so we get to know eachother16:02
mhall119I added the initial project ideas to the wiki team page16:04
cjohnstonmornin svwilliams16:08
svwilliamsmorning cjohnston16:08
* cjohnston pokes doctormo-other 16:08
* doctormo-other pokes cjohnston16:09
cjohnstongot a bunch of pending members to your team16:09
doctormo-otherI know :-)16:09
cjohnstonmakin em all wait? ;-)16:10
doctormo-othercjohnston: You've indicated previously that you were interested in making sure the project works and not so much in design.16:10
doctormo-otherIs that still true?16:10
svwilliamswhich project doctormo-other and cjohnston16:10
svwilliamssorry if I'm being too nosy16:10
cjohnstonsvwilliams: the new design project team thing16:10
svwilliamsahh16:11
doctormo-otherSo we're still mulling over the membership policy.16:12
cjohnstongotcha16:12
doctormo-otherAnyone who's worked in ubuntu design before is in initally. But the idea it to have ubuntu-design like a motu group.16:13
cjohnstongotcha16:13
cjohnstonthen kick me out16:13
cjohnstonlol16:13
cjohnstoni want to be proactive in getting people involved, and getting assistance with the correct people and whatnot.. i have no 'design' ability per se16:13
svwilliamswell will ubuntu-design be purely designers?16:14
svwilliamsor include members of projects that need design?16:14
doctormo-othergood point16:14
doctormo-otherI think it'll be a working group, so if you need design, then you can come here and talk about it and contact the right people.16:15
doctormo-otherIf you need to get involved with your own design, same applied but you get to brag about it later if you decide to do more design and want to join.16:16
doctormo-othercjohnston: What do you think of having an open group? My fear is that it sort of becomes a popularity thing16:16
svwilliamswell if its open is it a popularity thing, doesn't it kill the popularity thing16:17
svwilliamscause the response to beign on ubuntu-design is sure everyone can be on it16:17
svwilliamsunless you are worried about people joining for the sake of joining and then everything is cluttered with people16:17
cjohnstoni wasnt able to be here for the entire meeting, so if it was defined, I missed it, but has the project been completely defined.. last we spoke, i don't think that it was totally16:18
doctormo-other https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam mission statement and everything16:18
doctormo-otherWe've approved most people I think, since they've been active, have introduced themselves etc. So we're not going to be strict about the group membership, we'll just make sure everyone is actually interested in doing design work. :-)16:19
doctormo-othercjohnston: wendar wonders if you'd like to join as an administrator.16:20
cjohnstonOut design projects16:20
cjohnstonthats fine16:20
cjohnstonso here is what i see out of the mission statement:16:20
cjohnstonthe first paragraph to me reads that its a moderated group..16:20
cjohnstonthe second reads anyone interested16:20
cjohnstonbb in a minute16:21
mhall119doctormo-other: I'm in favor of an open team, if we need a motu-like team let's make that a separate one16:21
doctormo-otherwendar: your consensus is required16:21
wendarso, something like "ubuntu-design" and "ubuntu-designers"?16:22
mhall119or ubuntu-design-maintainers16:23
svwilliamsor ubuntu-design and ubuntu-design-leaders16:23
doctormo-otherNot really leaders though :-)16:23
mhall119yeah16:23
mhall119I don't like -designers for the same reason, we'll have people in -design that are designers16:23
doctormo-otherI like your idea wendar16:23
doctormo-otherubuntu-dotu ?16:23
wendarit does make sense to have one group that has permissions, gets assigned workitems, and such, and another where anyone can join16:24
mhall119with the exception of a ppa, I'm not even sure why we'd need a non-open team at this point16:24
doctormo-othermhall119: Flooding, design is full of bike shed painters.16:24
doctormo-otherImagine, group goes live, gets to the front page of OMG...16:26
mhall119ok, then let's go with a name that connotates work, not status or talent16:26
mhall119like -design-maintainers, or -design-keepers16:26
doctormo-otherImplies something we don't want to, that designs will be maintained.16:26
wendarwe need a good word for "getting your elbows dirty" design work16:27
wendardrafters?16:27
cjohnstonsorry.. im at work16:27
mhall119I like that16:27
mhall119or -organizers, -managers, -coordinators16:27
doctormo-othermhall119: Implied a level of authority we may not want.16:28
doctormo-otherI like drafters16:28
cjohnstonif it makes the front page of OMG i def want to be a part of it..16:29
cjohnstonlol.. kidding of course16:29
mhall119ok, +1 for drafters for me16:29
mhall119curators?16:29
wendarcollaborators?16:29
cjohnstondesign-jfdi'ers?16:30
mhall119the bulk of the collaboration should happen in the open team16:30
wendarthe teams are really just permission groups (and badges)16:31
mhall119the name really doesn't matter much, so if we all like ubuntu-design-drafters, let's just go with that and get the ball rolling16:31
wendarthe collaboration is here16:31
wendar(totally open)16:31
wendarand, I guess a mailing list16:31
wendarand maybe the occasional google hangout, for face-to-face16:32
cjohnstonno more mailing lists.16:32
cjohnstonlol16:32
wendarcjohnston: :) true nuff16:32
wendarwhen we get a good way going to share images, that may be all we need16:33
doctormo-otherwendar: Speaking of which, how goes the request to get an image bin?16:34
wendarhaven't submitted one to IS, we were still figuring out what we wanted?16:35
wendarI don't see a good open source one we could just host16:35
wendarbut, there's been more discussion here in the past few days on what kind of tool we wanted16:36
wendarand, I also wondered if using an existing site that designers know would be a good chance to attract more designers?16:37
wendarmhall119, doctormo-other: so, go ahead and open up ubuntu-design?16:39
doctormo-other+1 I think we have consensus.16:39
pleia2I know some people don't care for mailing lists ;) but it would be nice to have so people who aren't quite as involved can keep up with announced meeting notes and such (I'm particularly thinking of the CC at the moment here, we can help with guidance but not everyone can always be in here reading channel)16:40
doctormo-otherpleia2: Perhaps an announce-only mailing list?16:40
doctormo-otherubuntu-design-announce16:40
doctormo-otherwendar: As for the image-bin, I know plenty of people who could build one from scratch. I think cjohnston could :-D16:41
doctormo-otherAnd the quicker we get that basic service installed and instatutionalised, the better.16:41
cjohnstondoctormo-other: I didn't realise I got hired?16:42
cjohnstonlol16:42
doctormo-othercjohnston: "The pay is bad, the conditions are worse and you'll be expected to produce results. Here's your badge."16:43
wendardoctormo-other: the hosting part is easy, but when it comes to writing our own tools, I'd favor not throwing something up in a hurry that'll cause us pain later16:43
wendardoctormo-other: if we can use imagebin.org for a while, it's one less thing to get set up before we start designing together16:44
doctormo-otherwendar: An image bin in something that shouldn't take a massive amount of time, strip out 90% of the loco directory, use the ubuntu-sso and the base design templates, stick an image model on it and an upload directory.16:45
doctormo-otherwendar: imagebin.org (and the ca one) can be very unreliable. If it's ok, we can continue to use that.16:46
wendardoctormo-other: I think that's okay for the quick share use16:47
doctormo-otherUnderstood16:48
wendardoctormo-other: for anything more permanent, we may want something more like bzr16:48
wendarI don't know, is that a horrible idea, bzr for images?16:48
cjohnstonbig learning curve for people not familiar with it just for images16:49
cjohnstonor doctormo-other can pimp GC somemore16:49
doctormo-othercjohnston: If people test it, sure. ;-)16:49
wendaryeah16:49
wendarany imagebin isn't good for long-term storage16:49
wendarmore for quick sharing16:49
YoBoYhi, too much to read today ^^" do I have to present myself too ?16:50
doctormo-otherYoBoY: Yes please, something quick.16:50
wendaron my own personal workflow, I do keep book covers in source control16:51
wendarbut not large images16:51
wendarthose I do in Dropbox16:51
wendarhmmm... could we have a shared UbuntuOne folder for drafters?16:52
cjohnstonthat should work16:53
cjohnstoneveryone gets 5 gigs.16:53
cjohnstonso i think that would be a good ideae16:53
YoBoYok, I'm one of the leader of the ubuntu-fr locoteam, in charge of the web team, and we are starting to work on a new design for our ubuntu-fr.org domain sites following the ubuntu guidelines16:54
cjohnstonYoBoY: fwiw, id wait until after the new guidelines are released instead of doing things twice16:54
YoBoYcjohnston: we are atm working on the global appearance and website map, we haven't started to think about the colors and a real design yet16:56
cjohnstonok16:57
pleia2wendar is already there, but the CC is having a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now, if a few of you can join to ask/answer questions about our role in this that'd be great17:04
pleia2(sorry for not mentioning it earlier, my brain is sleepy)17:05
pleia2doctormon: care to join #ubuntu-meeting? CC meeting now, we may have questions about our role in this :)17:06
dakeri am not sure it was posted :17:07
dakerso hello everyone, my name is Adnane from Morocco, i am a web developer17:07
cjohnstondaker roxks17:07
cjohnstonfocks17:07
cjohnstonrocks17:07
cjohnstonuggh17:07
cjohnstonill learn one day17:07
dakerthanks cjohnston17:07
wendarhi daker, welcome!17:10
dakerthanks wendar17:13
czajkowskialoha17:35
czajkowski:)17:35
* pleia2 can't see :)17:35
pleia2hehe17:35
pleia2hey17:35
wendar<sabdfl> i asked today that design.canonical.com be moved to design.ubuntu.com, and we create accounts there for folk doing great work, regardless of affiliation17:40
wendarnice17:40
thorwilhi, i'm thorsten wilms from germany, all-round designer and working right now, while trying to look what goes on here from time to time ;)17:58
doctormonHey thorwil, thanks for joining in.17:59
doctormonwendar: That looks like awesome news.18:00
nuthinkingcan anyone change the room topic?18:20
nuthinkingI tried without success :(18:20
cjohnstonnuthinking: what do you want it to be18:26
cjohnstoni have the access18:26
wendarnuthinking: I also tried without success last night (wanted to add the meeting time)18:27
cjohnstonwendar: you should have access18:27
cjohnstonwendar: give me a topic and ill make it so18:27
wendarcjohnston: we haven't made the meeting a regular thing yet, so not that...hmm...18:28
cjohnstonlol18:28
wendarmaybe the launchpad team or the wiki page18:28
=== ChanServ changed the topic of #ubuntu-design to: Home of the Ubuntu Design Team | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design
cjohnstonmore better?18:31
mhall119looks better to me18:32
wendarcjohnston: +1, thanks!18:37
cjohnston:-)18:38
doctormoncjohnston: How do you see the new topic?18:42
nuthinkingcjohnston: Home of the Design Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam18:43
nuthinkingcjohnston: thanks!18:44
cjohnstondoctormon: Home of the Ubuntu Design Team | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam | Launchpad:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design18:44
cjohnstondoctormon: your confusing me with all your name changes18:45
cjohnstondavidcalle: interested in doing more work on summit? :-)18:52
davidcallecjohnston, hi! Sure, what kind of stuff?18:52
cjohnstondavidcalle: all kinds of stuff... /j #ubuntu-website  ?18:53
cjohnstondoctormon: ubuntu-design-drafters should be admin in ubuntu-design19:16
wendarcjohnston: hmmm... motu and core-dev aren't admin in ubuntu-dev. Would ubuntu-design-drafters be a permission group for, say full access to an image repository (if we created one)?19:32
wendar*full read-write access, that is19:32
cjohnstonwendar: probably.. the reason i was thinking make it admin for -design was to have the team be the manager of ubuntu-design.. i dont particularly care either way20:04
mainerrorWhat about http://deviantart.com/ ?20:06
mainerrorYou can create groups, maintain your galleries and it can attract new designers.20:08
bwintonSo, I've got a couple of thoughts…  Thunderbird is using tumblr for something similar (http://breakingtheegg.tumblr.com/).20:13
thorwilmainerror: deviantart wants to be a closed environment so much that you don't even get email notifications for anything as one of their users20:14
bwintonFirefox was using tumblr, but stopped because Chrome and Safari were implementing their designs before Firefox could.20:15
bwinton(Ubuntu probably isn't in as competitive a market as browsers are, so that might not be a problem.  ;)20:15
mainerrorthorwil: I see.20:20
mhall119!z é'20:24
mhall119darn ibus20:24
doctormonthorwil: I was interviewed for a job at dA, they really wanted me :-) they use php with a hacked c-lucene indexer. It's quite baroque.20:25
thorwilseems fitting :)20:26
mhall1192/w 2220:38
mainerrorJust noticed how much space gets wasted in a maximized software center window.20:38
mainerrorFiled a bug.20:39
mainerrorhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/89180420:39
wendarbwinton: I liked how Thunderbird used tumblr for the Ubuntu design/ux work last cycle20:41
AlanBellwhat makes tumblr good for that?20:44
wendarIt doesn't look like the Tumblr software is open source, which would be important for us20:49
wendarAlanBell: it's not a full "design collaboration tool" like we've talked about here20:50
wendarAlanBell: different purpose, more like a "design blog"20:50
AlanBellI am not familiar with it, but from looking at it now it looks like wordpress or any other blogging tool20:50
mainerrorIt basically is.20:50
wendarAlanBell: what Thunderbird did with it that was cool, was open publish the designs they were working on20:51
AlanBellpossibly a bit simplified20:51
wendarAlanBell: also some YouTube demos of the updated look-and-feel20:51
AlanBellyeah, that is a cool thing to do, I was just trying to understand what tumblr did that helped that20:51
wendarAlanBell: I haven't used it, so I can't speak to what features we'd want that it has20:53
wendarAlanBell: on the user side, it's much like a blog with RSS/Twitter feed20:53
AlanBellok20:53
AlanBellI would like to see pencil being used more20:54
wendarAlanBell: they may have some nifty features that make posting images and youtube videos easier20:54
mhall119+1 for pencil20:54
AlanBellhttp://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx20:54
wendarAlanBell: most blogging software is pretty lame around media content20:54
wendaroooh, pencil looks quite cool20:55
mainerrorThere is no .deb for Pencil, interesting.20:55
AlanBellPendulum: is cool20:55
AlanBellerr whut20:55
AlanBellwell Pendulum is cool, but why I tried to tab complete pencil and didn't read the result is a mystery to me20:56
wendarmainerror: yes, even though they list "Ubuntu" on their front page20:58
AlanBellit just works though20:58
AlanBellinstall the xpi using firefox20:59
wendarwould be interested to see what mpt thinks of it, he's got a keen eye for usable tools20:59
AlanBellit is also an *improveable* tool21:00
AlanBellif you want special widgets to draw unity lenses easier or whatever you can make that happen21:00
wendarAlanBell: there's also http://sparkleshare.org/21:00
mainerrorAlanBell: I don't use Firefox though. :)21:01
AlanBellmainerror: well it will run standalone, just uses the xul framework21:01
AlanBella deb package for the standalone would be a good thing, no argument there!21:01
* AlanBell thought sparkleshare was the git-backed dropbox/U1 sync clone tool21:02
mainerrorOh I see!21:02
AlanBellwendar: what were you thinking of using sparkleshare for?21:06
wendarAlanBell: that's another scenario, long-term sharing and storage for a particular project21:08
AlanBellok21:08
mainerrorLooks like there was a .deb until version 1.2.1.21:08
* AlanBell wonders if an Ubuntu One shared folder thingie would do what wendar is thinking of21:09
wendarit'd be nice if drafting, sharing, and collaborating were combined21:09
wendarbut, pencil seems to be missing the sharing feature21:09
AlanBellthe sharing feature is yet to be contributed, yes :)21:09
wendar(sharing being like tumblr, and collaborating being multiple people working on the same document)21:09
AlanBellbut that really is the sort of thing we can fix because it is open21:10
wendaryeah, same for sparkleshare, needs a bzr backend (currently only git)21:10
wendarmaybe we could combine them :)21:10
AlanBellbeyond collaborating (multiple people with edit rights over a thing) there is co-editing like etherpad21:11
AlanBelland doctormon was looking at doing real time sync of svgedit which would be very very very cool indeed21:12
wendarAlanBell: I suspect that as some point we'll want to do a "dog food" user journey on the experience of designers working on Ubuntu21:12
wendarAlanBell: (after some smaller tasks to get rolling)21:12
AlanBellyeah, more dogfooding is good21:13
wendarAlanBell: aye, etherpad, and google docs21:13
AlanBelldogfooding is good for multiple reasons, one of which is if someone is using photoshop and illustrator they have just errected two £500 barriers to collaboration21:14
AlanBellit would be good to see a design team top 5 list of features they want from Free Software design tools21:15
AlanBelllike "real time co-editing of vector graphics" or "simple workflow to share a user interface sketch from Pencil on a wordpress blog"21:16
AlanBelland maybe put up bounties for them21:16
wendarAlanBell: sounds good, start a page? wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Wishlist ?21:17
mainerroroO21:17
wendarToolsWishlist?21:17
mainerrorThere is no xulrunner package for oneiric!21:17
AlanBellmainerror: ooh, so there isn't, I remember that21:18
wendarIIRC, Mozilla dropped it21:18
mainerrorGreat.21:18
wendarwell, maybe not http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/xulrunner/releases/7.0/runtimes/21:20
wendarbut, they did stop using it for firefox21:20
mainerrorSo we need a PPA with the latest XULRunner and Pencils.21:20
wendarit now has a separate "internal" xulrunner21:20
bwinton(Sorry all, I was out getting coffee.)  AlanBell: tumblr was the easiest place for a group of us to post pictures, and get feedback.  I'm sure there are other solutions out there, too.21:21
bwintonwendar: I thought I heard somewhere that we're not really supporting xulrunner anymore either.21:21
AlanBellmainerror: seems I can start firefox, start pencil and close firefox (but pencil has a firefox icon)21:22
wendarbwinton: yeah, I thought so too21:22
AlanBellbwinton: sure, I wasn't being critical, just couldn't see why various projects had used that specifically for design sharing21:23
bwintonAlanBell: Well, TB used it because FF had already been using it.  I suspect FF used it because it was the first * easiest thing they came across.21:23
AlanBellfair enough, it looks like a simple and easy to use blogging platform21:24
* bwinton starts wondering about a quick blog-type-system built into Ubuntu-One… Just throw some files in a directory, and it'll automatically make a blog out of them…21:24
AlanBellwendar: we could easily do a set of "ubuntu" widgets for pencil, like the Windows XP set or GTK set that are in there21:27
wendarAlanBell: that'd be a cool project21:28
AlanBellwidget for a standard window frame, the launcher, a lens, the top panel, indicators etc21:28
AlanBellthen draw new stuff in the framework using the sketchy gui widgets or something21:29
* mainerror starts reading the Ubuntu packaging guide21:33
AlanBellhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Wishlist21:35
AlanBellfeel free to add/edit, it is a wiki ;)21:35
mainerrorSame goes for this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources21:36
mainerrorThanks AlanBell. We are talking about that tool and I forget to add it ...21:40
AlanBellpencil has an interesting set of export filters, including HTML export options21:42
* AlanBell thinks it wouldn't be hard to have a publish to wordpress button21:42
* mainerror checked out the Pencil repository21:46
AlanBellooh, export filters are kind of neat, xslt and css21:47
mainerrorChecking them out right now. Looks very interesting.21:48
mainerrorSomehow the "Export document to HTML" option seems to be broken.21:50
AlanBellhttp://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Downloads/Templates.aspx21:51
AlanBellyou need to download a template to make it work21:51
AlanBellI used the HTML Export Template with Thumbnails21:51
AlanBelland I am now looking at the .odt exporter21:52
mainerrorOoouuuhh! Fancy!21:54
AlanBelland this is how to package a collection of stencils, they are just SVG with a Definition.xml manifest file http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/DevGuides/DevGuideDetail.aspx?DocumentPath=devguide%2fdevguides%2fstencil-collection-structure-and-file-format21:57
AlanBellsome have javascript in them to do special magic, like the table widget that allows you to put markup text in it to define the number of rows and cols21:58
AlanBellooh, could use that for a lens widget21:58
AlanBellor the launcher21:58
mainerrorInteresting idea!21:59
mainerrorYou should put it on the wishlist.22:00
AlanBellit is kind of, an ubuntu set of widgets22:06
AlanBellthis is detail22:06
mainerrorThat's funny. XULRunner 8.0 refuses to run the Pencil .xpi because it thinks that the App:Name is missing even though it isn't.22:34
mainerrorOh my god, I'm so stupid. Never mind. -_-22:36
AlanBellyeah, totally should do an ubuntu window frame with buttons on the left22:57

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