[08:07] <MacSlow> greetings everybody
[12:03] <om26er> JohnLea, Hi! I was wondering what do you thing for the launcher to have blurred background all the time?
[12:04] <om26er> was it considered at some stage?
[12:04] <JohnLea> om26er; the launcher background should be identical to the Dash, alt-tab, etc... it is the same material and therefor should have the same blur, etc...
[12:04] <JohnLea> om26er; not having it is a bug
[12:05] <om26er> JohnLea, currently when the dash is not opened and we reveal the launcher from the left edge, its solve transparent with no blur
[12:05] <JohnLea> om26er; if there is not a bug reported already about this, feel free to report it and ping me the bug number
[12:05] <JohnLea> om26er; yes, this is a bug
[12:05] <om26er> s/solve/sole
[12:06] <om26er> JohnLea, I was in the process of reporting the bug already :-) i will ping you in a few minutes
[12:06] <JohnLea> om26er; great, thx ;-)
[12:08] <om26er> JohnLea, bug 891575 :-)
[12:08] <om26er> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/891575
[13:30] <mainerror> Quick question. I've asked this after UDS-O already but I know that you guys have been quite busy.
[13:31] <mainerror> What is the status on the Ubuntu animal logos in SVG format?
[13:31] <mainerror> Do you plan to release them?
[13:38] <wendar> [11:43:05] <sladen> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Precise  until there's somewhere more appropriate
[13:39] <mainerror> Oh nice.
[14:00] <wendar> Hi all
[14:00] <MacSlow> hey wendar
[14:00] <wendar> We're going to have an (informal) meeting here in channel
[14:01] <MacSlow> wendar, oh... Allison... had no idea this is your nick :)
[14:01] <wendar> We're talking about this blueprint https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-p-ux-participation
[14:01] <wendar> MacSlow: :)
[14:02] <charline_> wendar, I'm here.
[14:02] <MacSlow> hey charline_
[14:02] <wendar> hi charline_
[14:04] <wendar> doctormo isn't on yet, but will be here soon
[14:04] <wendar> I'd like to start off with some introductions, anyone who's interested in this project.
[14:05] <wendar> I'll start
[14:05] <wendar> just paste in a sentence or two when you can
[14:06] <wendar> I'm Allison Randal, years ago I worked as designer. Most of my time is development/packaging these days, but I still do the occasional book cover or graphic piece for my slides. I'm looking forward to working on some user journey's for Ubuntu.
[14:07] <charline_> I'm Charline Poirier, currently the acting head of design as well as the user research programme lead.
[14:08] <charline_> I tend to look at design from the users' point of view and its impact on users
[14:09] <MacSlow> Ola... I'm MacSlow (member of Canonical's DX-team, did NotifyOSD... now working on unity) I'm here to help and mentor anything technical and guide community people about best practises for asset/artwork flow designer->engineer.
[14:09] <MacSlow> ahm... real name being Mirco Müller... sorry :)
[14:16] <wendar> okay, so a few bits and pieces to start
[14:16] <wendar> doctormo created a launchpad team yesterday
[14:16] <wendar> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design
[14:17] <mhall119> I thought we already had an LP team, didn't cjohnston make one at UDS?
[14:17] <wendar> mhall119: link?
[14:17] <wendar> and, hi
[14:18] <wendar> thanks for creating the DesignTeam wikipage
[14:18] <mhall119> wendar: I'm looking, I could be wrong
[14:18] <mainerror> So everyone interested in the community design team is supposed to introduce himself?
[14:18] <mhall119> ok, I'm not seeing anything, so maybe he didn't
[14:18] <wendar> mainerror: yes, please do
[14:20] <wendar> mainerror: just a little about yourself, or your interest in Ubuntu design
[14:20] <mainerror> Alright. My name is Octavian Damiean. I've started as a web-designer and moved to mobile applications design. I'm involved in the Q&A platform Ask Ubuntu and am generally very interested in design and user experience.
[14:21] <mainerror> This is something I made for the Natty release.
[14:21] <mainerror> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/what-are-unitys-keyboard-and-mouse-shortcuts/36648#36648
[14:21] <MacSlow> mainerror, oh... never seen that... sweet!
[14:21] <mhall119> I've seen it, very helpful
[14:22] <wendar> mainerror: oh, neat, I had that as my wallpaper for most of Natty. Never knew who made it.
[14:22] <mainerror> :)
[14:22] <mainerror> Glad you like it.
[14:22] <cjohnston> mhall119, the team I made was strictly for tha brand guideline stuff
[14:23] <mhall119> oh, ok
[14:23] <cjohnston> which I'm still waiting to hear from yaili  on if we can get access to the site
[14:24] <wendar> cjohnston: ah, makes sense. Yes, we have two blueprints working on this channel.
[14:24] <wendar> mhall119: introduce yourself?
[14:25] <mhall119> My name is Michael Hall, I'm a web developer for Canonical ISD, as well as community web projects such as Summit and LoCo Team Portal.
[14:25] <mhall119> I'm not a designer, but I am a consumer of the product of designs both from the Canonical design team, as well as community designers
[14:26] <mhall119> It's my goal here to bring the two sets of designers together, to communicate and work collaboratively to improve the quality and quantity of design products available for Ubuntu
[14:27] <cjohnston> wendar,I dont know that we had a bp, it was am overview of the new guideline stuff.. and during that session I asked the design team members who were present if they would be willing to join a chanel to make communication more open and available
[14:28] <wendar> maybe I should say two projects/initiaitives?
[14:28] <wendar> cjohnston: introduce yourself?
[14:28] <wendar> cjohnston: and thanks for all the help getting this set up
[14:29] <cjohnston> what he said except I'm not canonical.. im on my cell phone so thats it for now
[14:31] <wendar> am I missing anyone else who'd like to do an introduction now?
[14:31] <mhall119> Chris works on several community websites, he's the project lead for the LoCo Team Portal and staus.ubuntu.com, and is heavily involved in Summit as well (and probably more that I can't think of)
[14:32] <mhall119> daker: are you around to introduce yourself?
[14:36] <wendar> So, doctormo and I worked together on some initial drafting yesterday, to start filling in details on the new team
[14:36] <wendar> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam
[14:37] <wendar> hi doctormo-other
[14:38] <mhall119> morning doctormo-other
[14:38] <wendar> doctormo-other: introduce yourself?
[14:38] <doctormo-other> Hey guys,
[14:39] <doctormo-other> I'm doctormo aka Martin Owens, originally a programmer with media skills I've moved over the years into design, art and production workflows.
[14:40] <wendar> doctormo-other: I just put up our draft text on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam, for all to comment on
[14:40] <doctormo-other> great,
[14:41] <mainerror> Looks good so far.
[14:42] <doctormo-other> This is fantastic wendar, brilliant. I've just updated critique to peer review.
[14:42] <doctormo-other> wendar: The contact should just be the CC until we have a leadership in place. No need to mention canonical vs community.
[14:43] <mhall119> wendar, doctormo-other: do you think we can work something into the mission statement about making the designs work available for reuse under an open license?
[14:45] <wendar> doctormo-other: good idea, added
[14:45] <wendar> mhall119: yes, makes sense
[14:46] <charline_> wendar:  would it be worth specifying the diversity of skills that is implied in 'design', visual, UX, interaction, brand, etc.?
[14:47] <charline_> wendar:  and when we mention the user journey, we could map out how these different skills collaborate
[14:47] <mainerror> I think a list of helpful resources might be good.
[14:47] <mhall119> mainerror: +1
[14:48] <wendar> charline_: yes, very good
[14:48] <mhall119> links to the branch guidelines (and new portal once it's live), etc
[14:48] <mainerror> A glossary, links to good design, UX, etc. blogs.
[14:49] <doctormo-other> mhall119: Added in a bit in the mission and a bit in the rules.
[14:49] <doctormo-other> mainerror: That's be great, do you know where to find them?
[14:50] <mainerror> Well I can only share what I use/read. http://www.alistapart.com/articles/
[14:50] <mhall119> doctormo-other: wendar: do you think we should decide on a few "preferred" licenses?
[14:51] <wendar> mhall119: it looks like doctormo listed CC-BY and CC-BY-SA
[14:51] <wendar> mhall119: are there others it'd be good to add to that?
[14:51] <doctormo-other> mhall119: In my experience, yes. There are only 4 or 5 useful licenses and most other things are disruptive.
[14:52] <mhall119> wendar: we should pick some code licenses too, GPL/AGPL, for things like html and css files that are produced
[14:52] <doctormo-other> Others include GPL (not really for art), Public Domain Declaration (not a license), CC0.
[14:53] <wendar> mhall119: ah, yes, that's true, also for javascript
[14:54] <wendar> charline_: would you like to write a sentence or two on the different skillsets of design, and how they interact?
[14:55] <charline_> wendar:  sure
[14:55] <doctormo-other> mainerror: That looks good.
[14:57] <mhall119> wendar: trademark policy is likely something that's going to come up repeatedly, we should both link to the current trademark policy, as well as set some guidelines for how and when designs should use it
[14:58] <doctormo-other> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources
[14:58] <wendar> mhall119: we might want to do a subpage on the wiki...
[14:58] <wendar> hah, doctormo beat me to it :)
[14:58] <mainerror> doctormo-other: Ah nice.
[14:58] <doctormo-other> mainerror: Feel free to expand the entry.
[14:59] <wendar> mhall119: so, maybe a "Licensing" heading there?
[14:59] <mhall119> on the Resources page?
[15:00] <wendar> mhall119: or, if we want more explanation than links, could be DesignTeam/Licensing
[15:00] <yaili> cjohnston: working on it still, sorry, I'll commit to having something up next week (eek!)
[15:00] <mhall119> wendar: I think a /Licensing page would work best, we may be asked for a short explanation for why we prefer a given license
[15:01] <wendar> mhall119: sounds good, would you like to do a first pass on that page?
[15:02] <cjohnston> thanks yaili
[15:04] <wendar> The last topic for today is picking a small first project
[15:05] <mhall119> wendar: sure thing
[15:05] <wendar> do people have some thoughts there?
[15:05] <wendar> it'd be nice to pick something small at first
[15:05] <wendar> maybe even a 1-week project
[15:05] <wendar> so we start getting in the flow
[15:06] <wendar> and have something "finished"
[15:06] <cjohnston> what are you wanting in a project
[15:06] <MacSlow> I remember someone mentioning something about "branding"-work in a free game... not sure though what the "branding" actually meant in that context.
[15:07] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Licenses
[15:08] <mhall119> how about making a logo for the new team?
[15:08] <wendar> mhall119: page looks awesome, thanks
[15:09] <wendar> mhall119: doctormo snuck one in https://launchpadlibrarian.net/85284103/ubuntu-design-64.png
[15:09] <wendar> mhall119: I see a stylized "D", and a speech bubble for collaboration
[15:10] <wendar> (this is on the launchpad team)
[15:10] <wendar> mhall119: hmmm... I also see a paintbrush
[15:11] <wendar> cjohnston: looking for something complex enough to need a simple user journey
[15:12] <wendar> mhall119: yeah, doctormo suggested a game, and I like the idea, it's simple enough not to get bogged down, and complex enough that there is a user experience impact
[15:13] <mhall119> a new game, or redesign an existing one?
[15:13] <wendar> mhall119: reviewing an existing one
[15:14] <wendar> I pointed at http://fourdigits.sourceforge.net/ (which is really, really simple)
[15:14] <wendar> I happened to be mentoring the developer on packaging it last weekend
[15:15] <wendar> but, didn't ask the developer if he'd be interesting in collaborating on something like this
[15:15] <mhall119> is there anything in the default install we can do?
[15:15] <MacSlow> wendar, looks like a valid first target
[15:15] <mhall119> solitaire or something?
[15:16] <mhall119> gbrainy might be a good candidate, but being mono it may be on it's way out
[15:17]  * wendar poking through the games preinstalled...
[15:17] <mhall119> we could make an Ubuntu theme for the solitaire card deck
[15:17] <wendar> yeah, gbrainy was the first I looked at
[15:17] <doctormo-other> My suggestion was atlantik, the monopoly game.
[15:17] <doctormo-other> mhall119: I thought there already was an Ubuntu theme?
[15:18] <mhall119> doctormo-other: mine has the Gnome foot
[15:19] <wendar> doctormo-other: I liked that one too
[15:19] <wendar> (the monopoly-ish game)
[15:20] <doctormo-other> mhall119: Maybe something that disapeared in a package update, because I remember it in 8.10
[15:20] <mhall119> doctormo-other: could be, could have only happened with the Gnome3 updates
[15:20] <mhall119> either way, I don't see an Ubuntu card theme
[15:20] <wendar> whatever we pick, it should be something where we can collaborate with the upstream developer
[15:21] <doctormo-other> I agree wendar
[15:21] <wendar> so, talk with them ahead of time to see if they'd like to participate
[15:21] <doctormo-other> Aye aye
[15:21] <mhall119> I'm not sure if upstream would want ubuntu-branded cards, but they might take an unbranded "human" or "light" themed one
[15:22] <mhall119> ok, whatever you guys pick, let me know and I'll reach out to the project developers
[15:22] <wendar> mhall119: we may have to go the other direction, reach out first, and pick based on which upstreams are willing
[15:22] <wendar> we could reach out to all 4
[15:23] <mhall119> I'd like to do something in the default install if we can, because it'll give the most exposure to the team right away
[15:23] <mainerror> mhall119: +1
[15:23] <wendar> gbrainy, gtkatlantic, solitaire, 4digits
[15:23] <wendar> mhall119: yes, I agree
[15:23] <MacSlow> and what about considering moving a game into the default install... if their upstream is very collaborative?
[15:23] <mainerror> doctormo-other: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources - I'll add more over time.
[15:24] <wendar> MacSlow: also possible
[15:24] <mhall119> MacSlow: we'd have to discuss that with the platform team, it will depend on the size and stability of the game
[15:24] <wendar> MacSlow: (I'm moving 4 digits that way)
[15:24] <doctormo-other> mainerror: Great
[15:24] <wendar> mhall119: it will also partly depend on the visual appeal of the game
[15:25] <wendar> mhall119: something really simple and beautiful would have a good chance of getting in
[15:25] <MacSlow> mhall119, sure CD-size is always an issue... but assuming mono moves out... that would free  a lot
[15:25] <doctormo-other> Now there's an idea, incetivised design.
[15:26] <mhall119> wendar: right, but the visual appeal we can do something about :)
[15:26] <mhall119> the size and stability, not as much
[15:26] <mainerror> I would probably free a lot but our plan to get a game in might collide with someones plan to get something else in.
[15:26] <mainerror> It would probably free a lot but our plan to get a game in might collide with someones plan to get something else in.
[15:27] <mainerror> Sorry. IRC Cloud is being weird right now.
[15:27] <mhall119> working with something already in the default isntall would definitely be easier, but a small game like 4digits we can probably get in
[15:28] <doctormo-other> wendar: If the idea for trying to get it into thed efault is a good one to follow up, then count gtkatlantik out, it'll have potential legal dangers.
[15:28] <wendar> doctormo-other: ah, too bad
[15:28] <wendar> other candidates to add?
[15:29] <mainerror> Gotta run for now. Bye.
[15:30] <wendar> mainerror: thanks!
[15:33] <wendar> it looks like the Puzzles section of the software center has some simple bits
[15:33] <wendar> (not default, but potential)
[15:34] <wendar> how about mhall119, you contact the solitare folks, and I'll contact the 4digits guy, and anyone else can contact developers of little games that look good
[15:34] <wendar> and see what kind of responses we get next week?
[15:36] <mhall119> wendar: sounds good
[15:37] <wendar> other thoughts before we wrap up this meeting?
[15:42] <wendar> okay, thanks all!
[15:57] <mhall119> thanks wendar
[15:58] <daker> mhall119, introduce myself to ?
[16:02] <mhall119> daker: to everyone here, so we get to know eachother
[16:04] <mhall119> I added the initial project ideas to the wiki team page
[16:08] <cjohnston> mornin svwilliams
[16:08] <svwilliams> morning cjohnston
[16:08]  * cjohnston pokes doctormo-other 
[16:09]  * doctormo-other pokes cjohnston
[16:09] <cjohnston> got a bunch of pending members to your team
[16:09] <doctormo-other> I know :-)
[16:10] <cjohnston> makin em all wait? ;-)
[16:10] <doctormo-other> cjohnston: You've indicated previously that you were interested in making sure the project works and not so much in design.
[16:10] <doctormo-other> Is that still true?
[16:10] <svwilliams> which project doctormo-other and cjohnston
[16:10] <svwilliams> sorry if I'm being too nosy
[16:10] <cjohnston> svwilliams: the new design project team thing
[16:11] <svwilliams> ahh
[16:12] <doctormo-other> So we're still mulling over the membership policy.
[16:12] <cjohnston> gotcha
[16:13] <doctormo-other> Anyone who's worked in ubuntu design before is in initally. But the idea it to have ubuntu-design like a motu group.
[16:13] <cjohnston> gotcha
[16:13] <cjohnston> then kick me out
[16:13] <cjohnston> lol
[16:13] <cjohnston> i want to be proactive in getting people involved, and getting assistance with the correct people and whatnot.. i have no 'design' ability per se
[16:14] <svwilliams> well will ubuntu-design be purely designers?
[16:14] <svwilliams> or include members of projects that need design?
[16:14] <doctormo-other> good point
[16:15] <doctormo-other> I think it'll be a working group, so if you need design, then you can come here and talk about it and contact the right people.
[16:16] <doctormo-other> If you need to get involved with your own design, same applied but you get to brag about it later if you decide to do more design and want to join.
[16:16] <doctormo-other> cjohnston: What do you think of having an open group? My fear is that it sort of becomes a popularity thing
[16:17] <svwilliams> well if its open is it a popularity thing, doesn't it kill the popularity thing
[16:17] <svwilliams> cause the response to beign on ubuntu-design is sure everyone can be on it
[16:17] <svwilliams> unless you are worried about people joining for the sake of joining and then everything is cluttered with people
[16:18] <cjohnston> i wasnt able to be here for the entire meeting, so if it was defined, I missed it, but has the project been completely defined.. last we spoke, i don't think that it was totally
[16:18] <doctormo-other>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam mission statement and everything
[16:19] <doctormo-other> We've approved most people I think, since they've been active, have introduced themselves etc. So we're not going to be strict about the group membership, we'll just make sure everyone is actually interested in doing design work. :-)
[16:20] <doctormo-other> cjohnston: wendar wonders if you'd like to join as an administrator.
[16:20] <cjohnston> Out design projects
[16:20] <cjohnston> thats fine
[16:20] <cjohnston> so here is what i see out of the mission statement:
[16:20] <cjohnston> the first paragraph to me reads that its a moderated group..
[16:20] <cjohnston> the second reads anyone interested
[16:21] <cjohnston> bb in a minute
[16:21] <mhall119> doctormo-other: I'm in favor of an open team, if we need a motu-like team let's make that a separate one
[16:21] <doctormo-other> wendar: your consensus is required
[16:22] <wendar> so, something like "ubuntu-design" and "ubuntu-designers"?
[16:23] <mhall119> or ubuntu-design-maintainers
[16:23] <svwilliams> or ubuntu-design and ubuntu-design-leaders
[16:23] <doctormo-other> Not really leaders though :-)
[16:23] <mhall119> yeah
[16:23] <mhall119> I don't like -designers for the same reason, we'll have people in -design that are designers
[16:23] <doctormo-other> I like your idea wendar
[16:23] <doctormo-other> ubuntu-dotu ?
[16:24] <wendar> it does make sense to have one group that has permissions, gets assigned workitems, and such, and another where anyone can join
[16:24] <mhall119> with the exception of a ppa, I'm not even sure why we'd need a non-open team at this point
[16:24] <doctormo-other> mhall119: Flooding, design is full of bike shed painters.
[16:26] <doctormo-other> Imagine, group goes live, gets to the front page of OMG...
[16:26] <mhall119> ok, then let's go with a name that connotates work, not status or talent
[16:26] <mhall119> like -design-maintainers, or -design-keepers
[16:26] <doctormo-other> Implies something we don't want to, that designs will be maintained.
[16:27] <wendar> we need a good word for "getting your elbows dirty" design work
[16:27] <wendar> drafters?
[16:27] <cjohnston> sorry.. im at work
[16:27] <mhall119> I like that
[16:27] <mhall119> or -organizers, -managers, -coordinators
[16:28] <doctormo-other> mhall119: Implied a level of authority we may not want.
[16:28] <doctormo-other> I like drafters
[16:29] <cjohnston> if it makes the front page of OMG i def want to be a part of it..
[16:29] <cjohnston> lol.. kidding of course
[16:29] <mhall119> ok, +1 for drafters for me
[16:29] <mhall119> curators?
[16:29] <wendar> collaborators?
[16:30] <cjohnston> design-jfdi'ers?
[16:30] <mhall119> the bulk of the collaboration should happen in the open team
[16:31] <wendar> the teams are really just permission groups (and badges)
[16:31] <mhall119> the name really doesn't matter much, so if we all like ubuntu-design-drafters, let's just go with that and get the ball rolling
[16:31] <wendar> the collaboration is here
[16:31] <wendar> (totally open)
[16:31] <wendar> and, I guess a mailing list
[16:32] <wendar> and maybe the occasional google hangout, for face-to-face
[16:32] <cjohnston> no more mailing lists.
[16:32] <cjohnston> lol
[16:32] <wendar> cjohnston: :) true nuff
[16:33] <wendar> when we get a good way going to share images, that may be all we need
[16:34] <doctormo-other> wendar: Speaking of which, how goes the request to get an image bin?
[16:35] <wendar> haven't submitted one to IS, we were still figuring out what we wanted?
[16:35] <wendar> I don't see a good open source one we could just host
[16:36] <wendar> but, there's been more discussion here in the past few days on what kind of tool we wanted
[16:37] <wendar> and, I also wondered if using an existing site that designers know would be a good chance to attract more designers?
[16:39] <wendar> mhall119, doctormo-other: so, go ahead and open up ubuntu-design?
[16:39] <doctormo-other> +1 I think we have consensus.
[16:40] <pleia2> I know some people don't care for mailing lists ;) but it would be nice to have so people who aren't quite as involved can keep up with announced meeting notes and such (I'm particularly thinking of the CC at the moment here, we can help with guidance but not everyone can always be in here reading channel)
[16:40] <doctormo-other> pleia2: Perhaps an announce-only mailing list?
[16:40] <doctormo-other> ubuntu-design-announce
[16:41] <doctormo-other> wendar: As for the image-bin, I know plenty of people who could build one from scratch. I think cjohnston could :-D
[16:41] <doctormo-other> And the quicker we get that basic service installed and instatutionalised, the better.
[16:42] <cjohnston> doctormo-other: I didn't realise I got hired?
[16:42] <cjohnston> lol
[16:43] <doctormo-other> cjohnston: "The pay is bad, the conditions are worse and you'll be expected to produce results. Here's your badge."
[16:43] <wendar> doctormo-other: the hosting part is easy, but when it comes to writing our own tools, I'd favor not throwing something up in a hurry that'll cause us pain later
[16:44] <wendar> doctormo-other: if we can use imagebin.org for a while, it's one less thing to get set up before we start designing together
[16:45] <doctormo-other> wendar: An image bin in something that shouldn't take a massive amount of time, strip out 90% of the loco directory, use the ubuntu-sso and the base design templates, stick an image model on it and an upload directory.
[16:46] <doctormo-other> wendar: imagebin.org (and the ca one) can be very unreliable. If it's ok, we can continue to use that.
[16:47] <wendar> doctormo-other: I think that's okay for the quick share use
[16:48] <doctormo-other> Understood
[16:48] <wendar> doctormo-other: for anything more permanent, we may want something more like bzr
[16:48] <wendar> I don't know, is that a horrible idea, bzr for images?
[16:49] <cjohnston> big learning curve for people not familiar with it just for images
[16:49] <cjohnston> or doctormo-other can pimp GC somemore
[16:49] <doctormo-other> cjohnston: If people test it, sure. ;-)
[16:49] <wendar> yeah
[16:49] <wendar> any imagebin isn't good for long-term storage
[16:49] <wendar> more for quick sharing
[16:50] <YoBoY> hi, too much to read today ^^" do I have to present myself too ?
[16:50] <doctormo-other> YoBoY: Yes please, something quick.
[16:51] <wendar> on my own personal workflow, I do keep book covers in source control
[16:51] <wendar> but not large images
[16:51] <wendar> those I do in Dropbox
[16:52] <wendar> hmmm... could we have a shared UbuntuOne folder for drafters?
[16:53] <cjohnston> that should work
[16:53] <cjohnston> everyone gets 5 gigs.
[16:53] <cjohnston> so i think that would be a good ideae
[16:54] <YoBoY> ok, I'm one of the leader of the ubuntu-fr locoteam, in charge of the web team, and we are starting to work on a new design for our ubuntu-fr.org domain sites following the ubuntu guidelines
[16:54] <cjohnston> YoBoY: fwiw, id wait until after the new guidelines are released instead of doing things twice
[16:56] <YoBoY> cjohnston: we are atm working on the global appearance and website map, we haven't started to think about the colors and a real design yet
[16:57] <cjohnston> ok
[17:04] <pleia2> wendar is already there, but the CC is having a meeting in #ubuntu-meeting now, if a few of you can join to ask/answer questions about our role in this that'd be great
[17:05] <pleia2> (sorry for not mentioning it earlier, my brain is sleepy)
[17:06] <pleia2> doctormon: care to join #ubuntu-meeting? CC meeting now, we may have questions about our role in this :)
[17:07] <daker> i am not sure it was posted :
[17:07] <daker> so hello everyone, my name is Adnane from Morocco, i am a web developer
[17:07] <cjohnston> daker roxks
[17:07] <cjohnston> focks
[17:07] <cjohnston> rocks
[17:07] <cjohnston> uggh
[17:07] <cjohnston> ill learn one day
[17:07] <daker> thanks cjohnston
[17:10] <wendar> hi daker, welcome!
[17:13] <daker> thanks wendar
[17:35] <czajkowski> aloha
[17:35] <czajkowski> :)
[17:35]  * pleia2 can't see :)
[17:35] <pleia2> hehe
[17:35] <pleia2> hey
 i asked today that design.canonical.com be moved to design.ubuntu.com, and we create accounts there for folk doing great work, regardless of affiliation
[17:40] <wendar> nice
[17:58] <thorwil> hi, i'm thorsten wilms from germany, all-round designer and working right now, while trying to look what goes on here from time to time ;)
[17:59] <doctormon> Hey thorwil, thanks for joining in.
[18:00] <doctormon> wendar: That looks like awesome news.
[18:20] <nuthinking> can anyone change the room topic?
[18:20] <nuthinking> I tried without success :(
[18:26] <cjohnston> nuthinking: what do you want it to be
[18:26] <cjohnston> i have the access
[18:27] <wendar> nuthinking: I also tried without success last night (wanted to add the meeting time)
[18:27] <cjohnston> wendar: you should have access
[18:27] <cjohnston> wendar: give me a topic and ill make it so
[18:28] <wendar> cjohnston: we haven't made the meeting a regular thing yet, so not that...hmm...
[18:28] <cjohnston> lol
[18:28] <wendar> maybe the launchpad team or the wiki page
[18:31] <cjohnston> more better?
[18:32] <mhall119> looks better to me
[18:37] <wendar> cjohnston: +1, thanks!
[18:38] <cjohnston> :-)
[18:42] <doctormon> cjohnston: How do you see the new topic?
[18:43] <nuthinking> cjohnston: Home of the Design Team | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam
[18:44] <nuthinking> cjohnston: thanks!
[18:44] <cjohnston> doctormon: Home of the Ubuntu Design Team | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam | Launchpad:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design
[18:45] <cjohnston> doctormon: your confusing me with all your name changes
[18:52] <cjohnston> davidcalle: interested in doing more work on summit? :-)
[18:52] <davidcalle> cjohnston, hi! Sure, what kind of stuff?
[18:53] <cjohnston> davidcalle: all kinds of stuff... /j #ubuntu-website  ?
[19:16] <cjohnston> doctormon: ubuntu-design-drafters should be admin in ubuntu-design
[19:32] <wendar> cjohnston: hmmm... motu and core-dev aren't admin in ubuntu-dev. Would ubuntu-design-drafters be a permission group for, say full access to an image repository (if we created one)?
[19:32] <wendar> *full read-write access, that is
[20:04] <cjohnston> wendar: probably.. the reason i was thinking make it admin for -design was to have the team be the manager of ubuntu-design.. i dont particularly care either way
[20:06] <mainerror> What about http://deviantart.com/ ?
[20:08] <mainerror> You can create groups, maintain your galleries and it can attract new designers.
[20:13] <bwinton> So, I've got a couple of thoughts…  Thunderbird is using tumblr for something similar (http://breakingtheegg.tumblr.com/).
[20:14] <thorwil> mainerror: deviantart wants to be a closed environment so much that you don't even get email notifications for anything as one of their users
[20:15] <bwinton> Firefox was using tumblr, but stopped because Chrome and Safari were implementing their designs before Firefox could.
[20:15] <bwinton> (Ubuntu probably isn't in as competitive a market as browsers are, so that might not be a problem.  ;)
[20:20] <mainerror> thorwil: I see.
[20:24] <mhall119> !z é'
[20:24] <mhall119> darn ibus
[20:25] <doctormon> thorwil: I was interviewed for a job at dA, they really wanted me :-) they use php with a hacked c-lucene indexer. It's quite baroque.
[20:26] <thorwil> seems fitting :)
[20:38] <mhall119> 2/w 22
[20:38] <mainerror> Just noticed how much space gets wasted in a maximized software center window.
[20:39] <mainerror> Filed a bug.
[20:39] <mainerror> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/891804
[20:41] <wendar> bwinton: I liked how Thunderbird used tumblr for the Ubuntu design/ux work last cycle
[20:44] <AlanBell> what makes tumblr good for that?
[20:49] <wendar> It doesn't look like the Tumblr software is open source, which would be important for us
[20:50] <wendar> AlanBell: it's not a full "design collaboration tool" like we've talked about here
[20:50] <wendar> AlanBell: different purpose, more like a "design blog"
[20:50] <AlanBell> I am not familiar with it, but from looking at it now it looks like wordpress or any other blogging tool
[20:50] <mainerror> It basically is.
[20:51] <wendar> AlanBell: what Thunderbird did with it that was cool, was open publish the designs they were working on
[20:51] <AlanBell> possibly a bit simplified
[20:51] <wendar> AlanBell: also some YouTube demos of the updated look-and-feel
[20:51] <AlanBell> yeah, that is a cool thing to do, I was just trying to understand what tumblr did that helped that
[20:53] <wendar> AlanBell: I haven't used it, so I can't speak to what features we'd want that it has
[20:53] <wendar> AlanBell: on the user side, it's much like a blog with RSS/Twitter feed
[20:53] <AlanBell> ok
[20:54] <AlanBell> I would like to see pencil being used more
[20:54] <wendar> AlanBell: they may have some nifty features that make posting images and youtube videos easier
[20:54] <mhall119> +1 for pencil
[20:54] <AlanBell> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Home.aspx
[20:54] <wendar> AlanBell: most blogging software is pretty lame around media content
[20:55] <wendar> oooh, pencil looks quite cool
[20:55] <mainerror> There is no .deb for Pencil, interesting.
[20:55] <AlanBell> Pendulum: is cool
[20:55] <AlanBell> err whut
[20:56] <AlanBell> well Pendulum is cool, but why I tried to tab complete pencil and didn't read the result is a mystery to me
[20:58] <wendar> mainerror: yes, even though they list "Ubuntu" on their front page
[20:58] <AlanBell> it just works though
[20:59] <AlanBell> install the xpi using firefox
[20:59] <wendar> would be interested to see what mpt thinks of it, he's got a keen eye for usable tools
[21:00] <AlanBell> it is also an *improveable* tool
[21:00] <AlanBell> if you want special widgets to draw unity lenses easier or whatever you can make that happen
[21:00] <wendar> AlanBell: there's also http://sparkleshare.org/
[21:01] <mainerror> AlanBell: I don't use Firefox though. :)
[21:01] <AlanBell> mainerror: well it will run standalone, just uses the xul framework
[21:01] <AlanBell> a deb package for the standalone would be a good thing, no argument there!
[21:02]  * AlanBell thought sparkleshare was the git-backed dropbox/U1 sync clone tool
[21:02] <mainerror> Oh I see!
[21:06] <AlanBell> wendar: what were you thinking of using sparkleshare for?
[21:08] <wendar> AlanBell: that's another scenario, long-term sharing and storage for a particular project
[21:08] <AlanBell> ok
[21:08] <mainerror> Looks like there was a .deb until version 1.2.1.
[21:09]  * AlanBell wonders if an Ubuntu One shared folder thingie would do what wendar is thinking of
[21:09] <wendar> it'd be nice if drafting, sharing, and collaborating were combined
[21:09] <wendar> but, pencil seems to be missing the sharing feature
[21:09] <AlanBell> the sharing feature is yet to be contributed, yes :)
[21:09] <wendar> (sharing being like tumblr, and collaborating being multiple people working on the same document)
[21:10] <AlanBell> but that really is the sort of thing we can fix because it is open
[21:10] <wendar> yeah, same for sparkleshare, needs a bzr backend (currently only git)
[21:10] <wendar> maybe we could combine them :)
[21:11] <AlanBell> beyond collaborating (multiple people with edit rights over a thing) there is co-editing like etherpad
[21:12] <AlanBell> and doctormon was looking at doing real time sync of svgedit which would be very very very cool indeed
[21:12] <wendar> AlanBell: I suspect that as some point we'll want to do a "dog food" user journey on the experience of designers working on Ubuntu
[21:12] <wendar> AlanBell: (after some smaller tasks to get rolling)
[21:13] <AlanBell> yeah, more dogfooding is good
[21:13] <wendar> AlanBell: aye, etherpad, and google docs
[21:14] <AlanBell> dogfooding is good for multiple reasons, one of which is if someone is using photoshop and illustrator they have just errected two £500 barriers to collaboration
[21:15] <AlanBell> it would be good to see a design team top 5 list of features they want from Free Software design tools
[21:16] <AlanBell> like "real time co-editing of vector graphics" or "simple workflow to share a user interface sketch from Pencil on a wordpress blog"
[21:16] <AlanBell> and maybe put up bounties for them
[21:17] <wendar> AlanBell: sounds good, start a page? wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Wishlist ?
[21:17] <mainerror> oO
[21:17] <wendar> ToolsWishlist?
[21:17] <mainerror> There is no xulrunner package for oneiric!
[21:18] <AlanBell> mainerror: ooh, so there isn't, I remember that
[21:18] <wendar> IIRC, Mozilla dropped it
[21:18] <mainerror> Great.
[21:20] <wendar> well, maybe not http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/xulrunner/releases/7.0/runtimes/
[21:20] <wendar> but, they did stop using it for firefox
[21:20] <mainerror> So we need a PPA with the latest XULRunner and Pencils.
[21:20] <wendar> it now has a separate "internal" xulrunner
[21:21] <bwinton> (Sorry all, I was out getting coffee.)  AlanBell: tumblr was the easiest place for a group of us to post pictures, and get feedback.  I'm sure there are other solutions out there, too.
[21:21] <bwinton> wendar: I thought I heard somewhere that we're not really supporting xulrunner anymore either.
[21:22] <AlanBell> mainerror: seems I can start firefox, start pencil and close firefox (but pencil has a firefox icon)
[21:22] <wendar> bwinton: yeah, I thought so too
[21:23] <AlanBell> bwinton: sure, I wasn't being critical, just couldn't see why various projects had used that specifically for design sharing
[21:23] <bwinton> AlanBell: Well, TB used it because FF had already been using it.  I suspect FF used it because it was the first * easiest thing they came across.
[21:24] <AlanBell> fair enough, it looks like a simple and easy to use blogging platform
[21:24]  * bwinton starts wondering about a quick blog-type-system built into Ubuntu-One…  Just throw some files in a directory, and it'll automatically make a blog out of them…
[21:27] <AlanBell> wendar: we could easily do a set of "ubuntu" widgets for pencil, like the Windows XP set or GTK set that are in there
[21:28] <wendar> AlanBell: that'd be a cool project
[21:28] <AlanBell> widget for a standard window frame, the launcher, a lens, the top panel, indicators etc
[21:29] <AlanBell> then draw new stuff in the framework using the sketchy gui widgets or something
[21:33]  * mainerror starts reading the Ubuntu packaging guide
[21:35] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Wishlist
[21:35] <AlanBell> feel free to add/edit, it is a wiki ;)
[21:36] <mainerror> Same goes for this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam/Resources
[21:40] <mainerror> Thanks AlanBell. We are talking about that tool and I forget to add it ...
[21:42] <AlanBell> pencil has an interesting set of export filters, including HTML export options
[21:42]  * AlanBell thinks it wouldn't be hard to have a publish to wordpress button
[21:46]  * mainerror checked out the Pencil repository
[21:47] <AlanBell> ooh, export filters are kind of neat, xslt and css
[21:48] <mainerror> Checking them out right now. Looks very interesting.
[21:50] <mainerror> Somehow the "Export document to HTML" option seems to be broken.
[21:51] <AlanBell> http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/Downloads/Templates.aspx
[21:51] <AlanBell> you need to download a template to make it work
[21:51] <AlanBell> I used the HTML Export Template with Thumbnails
[21:52] <AlanBell> and I am now looking at the .odt exporter
[21:54] <mainerror> Ooouuuhh! Fancy!
[21:57] <AlanBell> and this is how to package a collection of stencils, they are just SVG with a Definition.xml manifest file http://pencil.evolus.vn/en-US/DevGuides/DevGuideDetail.aspx?DocumentPath=devguide%2fdevguides%2fstencil-collection-structure-and-file-format
[21:58] <AlanBell> some have javascript in them to do special magic, like the table widget that allows you to put markup text in it to define the number of rows and cols
[21:58] <AlanBell> ooh, could use that for a lens widget
[21:58] <AlanBell> or the launcher
[21:59] <mainerror> Interesting idea!
[22:00] <mainerror> You should put it on the wishlist.
[22:06] <AlanBell> it is kind of, an ubuntu set of widgets
[22:06] <AlanBell> this is detail
[22:34] <mainerror> That's funny. XULRunner 8.0 refuses to run the Pencil .xpi because it thinks that the App:Name is missing even though it isn't.
[22:36] <mainerror> Oh my god, I'm so stupid. Never mind. -_-
[22:57] <AlanBell> yeah, totally should do an ubuntu window frame with buttons on the left