[02:35] <TheMuso> RAOF: RAOF You're on precise correct? Did you get this error when attempting to run schroot for the first time? E: Access not authorised
[02:35] <RAOF> Hm, no I don't.
[02:36] <TheMuso> Hrm interesting.
[02:36] <RAOF> I do however suffer from everything being unbootstrappable at the moment.  Damn perl transition!
[02:36] <TheMuso> you do not have permission to access the schroot service.
[02:36] <TheMuso> heh right.
[02:48] <jbicha> TheMuso: I use http://wiki.debian.org/sbuild as a guide, perhaps you need to sudo sbuild-adduser and then log out and back in
[02:49] <TheMuso> jbicha: see #ubuntu-devel, worked out the problem.
[02:49] <TheMuso> Thanks anyway.
[02:49] <TheMuso> jbicha: Oh and did that vte patch fix your keyboard issue?
[02:49] <jbicha> TheMuso: yes, thank you!
[02:51] <TheMuso> np
[02:51] <TheMuso> It wasn't my patch, I just grabbit it and packaged it. :)
[03:34] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF and robert_ancell , you guys have a few minutes for a phone call?
[03:34] <RAOF> Yup.
[03:36] <jasoncwarner_> thanks, RAOF , I'll wait for robert_ancell so we can get a conf call and do it all at once.
[03:36]  * RAOF goes to find his headset/mic
[03:56] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, hey, just came back
[03:56] <robert_ancell> mumble?
[03:56] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: mumble work?
[03:57] <RAOF> Allow me to install it…
[03:58] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF: :/ ;)
[03:59]  * bryceh waves
[04:00] <RAOF> Done.
[04:01] <jasoncwarner_> RAOF robert_ancell in desktop
[04:02] <robert_ancell> RAOF, microphone settings wrong?
[04:02] <RAOF> Urgh.
[04:16] <robert_ancell> RAOF, does X do anything with SIGUSR1?  I was thinking we could hack up X to exit without clearing the screen on this signal if not to get the smooth switching working
[04:16] <robert_ancell> I mean SIGUSR2
[04:17] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I don't think SIGUSR2 is used, no.
[04:17] <robert_ancell> Using signals is pretty yuck, but not sure what else to do
[04:17] <RAOF> Weren't we going to pass a parameter on startup to make it not clear on shutdown?
[04:18] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, but there is a risk there that when it comes to shutdown I want to you clear up as normal
[04:18] <robert_ancell> or lightdm fails or something
[04:18] <RAOF> Right.
[04:19] <robert_ancell> RAOF, actually, do we need it at all? If I start a new X server and wait for the SIGUSR1 signal, then switch to it should there be any flicker?
[04:19] <RAOF> Just whatever VT clearing X does normally.
[04:20] <robert_ancell> RAOF, any idea what it does?
[04:21]  * RAOF plays “empirical testing”
[04:22] <RAOF> Answer: there's is a flicker.
[04:22] <RAOF> This could surely be eliminated, though.
[04:22] <robert_ancell> but is it required when switching to a text terminal?
[04:24] <RAOF> I'm uncertain.  I wouldn't think so.
[04:26] <RAOF> At least for kms drivers.
[04:53] <pitti> Good morning
[04:53] <pitti> bigon: yep, we discussed that a bit yesterday; most stuff will be blocked by current glib/gtk anyway, and that will land soon
[05:46] <bryceh> RAOF, I've drafted https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Blueprints/LtsPointUpdatesForXorg and think it covers everything we've talked about so far.  You should probably look it over and add any noteworthy bits you can think of.
[05:47] <RAOF> Good idea.
[05:49] <RAOF> bryceh: That matches my recollection of the session.
[06:01] <bryceh> RAOF, ok good
[06:02] <bryceh> so I think the blueprints are all squared away now.
[06:32] <pitti> bryceh: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-p-multi-monitor is still in "drafting" state, though}
[06:32] <pitti> ?
[06:32] <pitti> no, "discussion"
[06:32] <bryceh> hmm that's not right, one sec
[06:33] <bryceh> pitti, ok it's in review state now
[06:33] <pitti> ah, perfect; will look at it ASAP
[06:35] <pitti> ah, looks great, thanks
[06:45] <pitti> robert_ancell: hey Robert, how are you?
[06:47] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Hm.  Hey, could you confirm this VT switching behaviour?  Switching to second or subsequent X servers involves a flash, but switching to the initial X server is seamless.
[06:47] <RAOF> robert_ancell: How would I get lightdm to spawn the second and subsequent servers with “-background none”?
[06:50] <robert_ancell> RAOF, oh, do they launch without that?  I guess I need to fix the logic then
[06:51] <RAOF> robert_ancell: I'm by no means certain that's the (a?) cause of the flashing, but it's an obvious difference between VT7 and the others.
[06:52] <robert_ancell> RAOF, right, I'll investigate tomorrow, we might not need anything special (except when shutting down)
[06:57] <RAOF> Hm, yeah.  As long as we always log out by starting a server first, then switching to it.
[07:05] <didrocks> good morning
[07:07] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:13] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[07:22] <pitti> RAOF: FYI, I'm looking at merging/syncing libraw; Debian experimental version uses lcms2 now
[07:23] <pitti> looks fine, syncing
[07:59] <pitti> bigon: I was just about to update json-glib, but now saw that you already did it in svn, but not uploaded; anything wrong with it?
[08:19] <chrisccoulson_> good morning everyone
[08:19] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[08:19] <chrisccoulson> hi didrocks, how are you?
[08:19] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: feeling better than yesterday. Seems even to have a clear brain :)
[08:19] <didrocks> and you?
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, yeah, not too bad thanks. slowly recovering from my ubuflu :)
[08:21] <didrocks> :)
[08:21] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[08:21] <pitti> chrisccoulson: urgh, still ubuflu?
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> hi pitti, how are you?
[08:21] <chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, i've been really bad this time
[08:35] <AfC> Since I've upgraded to the 3.2 set, every time I go to join a new wireless network (ie, I'm a guest in this office today), I get prompted with the "System policy requires you to authenticate in order to change wireless settings" dialog.
[08:35] <AfC> I can only assume it's a policy kit thing, but I added myself to netdev and that didn't help. So I'm wondering what to poke. Any suggestions?
[08:36] <pitti> does ck-list-sessions have an active session for you?
[08:45] <AfC> pitti: checking
[08:45] <AfC> pitti: yes
[08:50] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:50] <AfC> I'll try messing with pkcheck
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> AfC, do you have policykit-desktop-privileges installed
[08:52] <AfC> chrisccoulson: checking
[08:53] <AfC> chrisccoulson: _no_
[08:53] <AfC> So, installing :)
[08:53] <chrisccoulson> AfC, that's probably why then :)
[08:55]  * AfC disconnects and retries
[08:55] <bigon> pitti: re json-glib: ENOTIME :)
[08:55] <bigon> I'll have a look at that today
[09:03] <AfC> chrisccoulson: that seems to have done the trick. Thanks!
[09:19] <pitti> bigon: I can help with build/test/upload if you want me to
[09:19] <pitti> bigon: I just didn't want to step on your toes
[09:19] <bigon> I'm looking at adding ma support
[09:20] <pitti> ah
[09:20] <desrt> pitti: platform sprint is 2012W02, right?
[09:20] <desrt> (good morning,btw)
[09:20] <pitti> hey desrt
[09:20] <pitti> desrt: yep, Jan 09 to 13
[09:20] <desrt> thanks
[09:21] <didrocks> hey bigon, desrt!
[09:23] <pitti> hm, versions.html doesn't get updated
[09:23]  * pitti checks
[09:23] <desrt> didrocks: good morning
[09:25] <desrt> being in europe makes it quite difficult to talk to robert!
[09:26] <didrocks> indeed
[09:27] <Laney> is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/762167 right?
[09:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 762167 in light-themes "missing dependency on gtk2-engines-pixbuf" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[09:38] <seb128> hey
[09:38] <didrocks> salut seb128, ça va ?
[09:38] <seb128> lut didrocks, ca va ? et toi ?
[09:39] <didrocks> seb128: bien, au moins, j'ai un esprit clair aujourd'hui (et plus de fièvre ;))
[09:39] <seb128> ;-)
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> !!!!!
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> hi french people :)
[09:40] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[09:40] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:40] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:40] <seb128> how are you?
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: FYI, currently debugging why versions.py stopped updating
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> i'm good thanks, how are you?
[09:40] <seb128> pitti, when did it stop?
[09:40] <pitti> I did a couple of syncs/merges this morning, and it's out of date
[09:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm great, thanks
[09:40] <pitti> seb128: ast updated: Wednesday November 16 2011 20:22:50 +0000
[09:41] <seb128> ok, weird
[09:43] <seb128> didrocks, seems pitti synced dee after all :p
[09:43] <pitti> sorry, was that wrong? we didn't have any more changes, and our package was in fact broken
[09:43] <pitti> we had a debian/patches/debian-changes
[09:44] <didrocks> pitti: can you update the vcs as well, please?
[09:44] <seb128> pitti, we had the discussion a few weeks ago, the vcs is full source derivated from the upstream bzr
[09:44] <didrocks> yeah, it will probably break it
[09:44] <seb128> pitti, that doesn't play well with direct syncs
[09:44] <pitti> ok, will update our vcs then
[09:45] <seb128> thanks
[09:45] <seb128> I'm still unsure what to do with those
[09:45] <didrocks> if you just add the changelog, it should be fine for next iteration
[09:45] <seb128> libindicate is in the same case
[09:45] <seb128> libindicator as well I think
[09:45] <didrocks> but if you copy the full source, we can have conflicts at next merge
[09:45] <pitti> didrocks: right, and drop debian-chagnes* (I suppose that's not even in the vcs, though)
[09:45] <didrocks> pitti: no, it's not
[09:46] <didrocks> pitti: debian-changes is because of cherry-pick upstream
[09:46] <didrocks> bzr merge ../
[09:46] <didrocks> from trunk
[09:46] <didrocks> so inline changes that are erased at next release by merge-upstream
[09:46] <didrocks> but anyway, we told that we won't use source 3 anymore for those bzr-derived packages
[09:46] <pitti> ok, sorry for stomping over this
[09:46] <seb128> yeah, bzr cherrypick and source v3 lead to weirdness
[09:47] <didrocks> pitti: no worry :) just update the debian/changelog and not the content itself as i'm afraid of conflicts at next resync
[09:47] <seb128> pitti, thanks for all the updates in Debian and sync!
[09:47] <pitti> de rien :)
[09:47] <pitti> I was in the mood this morning
[09:47] <pitti> currently updating libgnome-keyring
[09:47] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, not quite readable for archive admins :/
[09:48] <pitti> I checked libgnome, we can sync if we don't care about the changed background and sound theme settings
[09:48] <pitti> the latter might still be relevant though for GTK 2 apps
[09:48] <pitti> otherwise they might start producing sound effects again
[09:48] <pitti> I'm not sure whether that's libgnome directly or goes through g-s-d
[09:49] <seb128> pitti, I doubt we have a lot using libgnome still
[09:49] <seb128> we can sync and see if somebody complains
[09:50] <pitti> edubuntu still has it on their images
[09:50] <pitti> I thought "let's just ignore it and have it bitrot"
[09:50] <pitti> :)
[09:51] <seb128> works as well ;-)
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> hah
[09:52] <seb128> oh, I think chrisccoulson just volunteered for a few merges with his "hah"
[09:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right? ;-)
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> oops, did i just volunteer for some more? ;)
[09:54] <pitti> didrocks: pushed
[09:54] <didrocks> pitti: excellent, thanks!
[09:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, no, no work for you until you get g-s-d fixed ;-)
[09:54]  * chrisccoulson hides
[09:54] <seb128> chrisccoulson, poke - is it fixed yet - poke -poke :p
[09:54] <chrisccoulson> does that still happen in precise? i didn't try suspending since i upgraded yesterday :)
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, dunno, I don't suspend a lot at home and I'm still on Oneiric ;-)
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> one second, let me try
[09:55] <seb128> chrisccoulson, my tb indicator still get blued when there is no unread message left though!
[09:55] <pitti> I suspended yesterday, and it worked perfectly
[09:56] <pitti> in fact, it was the first time ever when suspend worked correctly with unity and an external monitor
[09:56] <pitti> before I had to ctrl+alt+f1 and -f7
[09:56] <bigon> pitti: I've pushed my changes for json-glib, if you want to look at them :
[09:56] <pitti> seb128: versions.py> ah, there we go -- LP crash
[09:56] <bigon> :)
[09:56] <seb128> pitti, :-(
[09:56] <pitti> Getting LP bugs...
[09:56] <pitti> lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
[09:57] <pitti> took awfully long, I assume timeout
[09:57] <pitti>      <h1 class="exception">Timeout error</h1>
[09:57] <pitti> yhep
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, the bogus battery on resume issue is fixed in precise
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> i probably shouldn't have upgraded yesterday ;)
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> actually
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> i could just use the old kernel :)
[09:59] <pitti> bigon: building locally, to check whether M-A: same is safe for the -dbg (sometimes it isn't)
[10:01] <pitti> seb128: I guess I can apply the same created_since='2011-08-01' trick that I did to apport
[10:01] <bigon> pitti: ah? I was not sure actually
[10:01] <seb128> pitti is on a sync frenzy ;-)
[10:01] <seb128> pitti, wfm
[10:02] <bigon> pitti: how can I check if -ma -dbg pkg are safe?
[10:02] <pitti> bigon: if they only have binaries in /usr/lib/x86.../, it's fine
[10:03] <pitti> bigon: but sometimes -dbg packages have e. g. /usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/foo
[10:03] <pitti> bigon: and these will collide
[10:03] <bigon> ah ok
[10:03] <pitti> bigon: bug not here, that looks fine
[10:03] <pitti> no /bin stuff in it
[10:03] <bigon> yep
[10:03] <pitti> bigon: thanks!
[10:05] <bigon> I'll upload it after my meeting, if you want to give it a functional test
[10:10] <pitti> bigon: seems to work fine here
[10:22] <pitti> ah! http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: ^
[10:24] <seb128> pitti, \o/
[10:35]  * pitti fixes the libunique FTBFS, sorry about that
[10:36] <pitti> LP is down, but the error messages have become much nicer!
[10:36] <seb128> pitti, what error messages?
[10:37] <pitti> seb128: try opening LP
[10:37] <pitti> you see the recent status messages now
[10:37] <pitti> which is really helpful
[10:38] <seb128> ah right
[10:41] <pitti> it's so tempting to move the Conflicts: bamfdaemon (<= 0.2.92-0ubuntu1), libzeitgeist-gio, wncksyncdaemon from libglib2.0-0 to some other package like gvfs or zeitgeist or what not, and sync glib2.0
[10:43] <pitti> but oh well, I think I'll stop my update/merge/sync mania now and move to lunch and apport :)
[10:43] <chrisccoulson> pitti - no, don't remove those :-)
[10:43] <chrisccoulson> those packages are quite disruptive if they remain installed ;)
[10:44] <chrisccoulson> as i found out last cycle
[10:46] <chrisccoulson> gah, launchpad, COME BACK NOW
[10:46] <AfC> chrisccoulson: [not sure if you saw] yes, your solution of installing missing policykit-desktop-privileges has fixed the problem. Thanks!
[10:46] <chrisccoulson> AfC, excellent :)
[10:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no, not remove -- move to some other package
[10:47] <pitti> chrisccoulson: we need to keep them until after precise indeed
[10:48] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ah, ok. i guess that could make sense
[10:51] <hrw> unity/3d is even usable
[10:51] <hrw> but bug 891116 affects my work too often ;(
[10:51] <ubot2> hrw: Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable (https://launchpad.net/bugs/891116)
[10:52] <seb128> pitti, we will not sync glib long, we want 2.31
[10:54] <seb128> hrw, seems you are the only one to get it, did you tweak your compiz config?
[10:55] <desrt> AfC: stop that.  you're making me dizzy. :p
[10:55]  * AfC hands desrt a glass of water
[10:55] <desrt> particularly since chrisccoulson is on both places :p
[10:55] <chrisccoulson> heh
[10:55] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[10:56] <seb128> desrt, stop drinking!
[10:56] <seb128> or drink water
[10:56] <desrt> seb128: but it's coffee
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> The following packages have been kept back
[10:56] <chrisccoulson>   icedtea-netx icedtea-plugin
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> isn't that not meant to happen these days? :-P
[10:56] <seb128> desrt, no coffee for you anymore, you had enough!
[10:56] <desrt> it's only my second cup today
[10:56] <seb128> then it's ok ;-)
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> i haven't had any!
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> but i have had nearly a whole bottle of pepsi max
[10:57] <seb128> chrisccoulson, use dist-upgrade?
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, that's what i'm using ;)
[10:57] <seb128> not sure pepsi is better than coffee
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i don't think it's any better
[10:58] <seb128> oh
[10:58] <seb128> launchpad is back!
[10:58] <chrisccoulson> i can feel my stomach dissolving away as we speak
[10:58] <chrisccoulson> probably should go and make coffee :)
[10:58]  * desrt sticks with the coffee
[10:58] <desrt> seb128: still no 2.31.0?  bad hacker.
[10:59] <seb128> desrt, I was sort of waiting for the eog issue to be fixed
[10:59] <desrt> it is.
[10:59] <desrt> did they not do a release yet?
[10:59] <chrisccoulson> hah,  icedtea-netx : Depends: icedtea-netx-common but it is not installable
[10:59] <chrisccoulson> E: Package 'icedtea-netx-common' has no installation candidate
[10:59] <desrt> iirc they pushed my patch...
[10:59] <chrisccoulson> who broke the icedtea package?? :)
[10:59] <seb128> desrt, no they didn't
[11:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, doko?
[11:00] <seb128> desrt, http://git.gnome.org/browse/eog/commit/?id=ee4f6b27027421ee1e7cb14948f587da83171668 ?
[11:00] <desrt> yes
[11:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128, oh, seems he actually fixed it already
[11:00] <desrt> probably that commit should have also bumped the glib depend
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> i guess i just need to wait for the publisher
[11:01] <seb128> desrt, so taking that commit on glib 2.30 will lead to issues?
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> actually
[11:02] <desrt> yup.
[11:02] <desrt> seb128: in short: i completely buggered it up
[11:03] <hrw> seb128: I did
[11:03] <desrt> i consider the old behaviour to be a very bad bug, and eog's previous code to be a workaround for that mistake
[11:03] <desrt> now the bug is fixed and the workaround _must_ be removed in order for eog to continue working
[11:03] <desrt> which sucks a lot
[11:03] <desrt> but it is as it is
[11:03] <seb128> desrt, I hope we don't have many applications workarounding the old bug :p
[11:04] <desrt> seb128: it only happens when you use gdkthreads
[11:04] <hrw> seb128: ccsm is needed even to set launcher size (32px) and amount of desktops (1x6)
[11:04] <desrt> seb128: and afaik, eog is the only app that i've heard of having trouble with the new glib
[11:04] <desrt> (after we fixed the 2 other actual bugs)
[11:04] <seb128> desrt, yeah, right, we already had those discussions ;-)
[11:05] <seb128> desrt, I'm just pondering what to do with eog and glib now, I guess I will make the new glib breaks eog << before-patch and eog depends on >> new-glib
[11:05] <desrt> seb128: so i don't need to hope :p
[11:05] <desrt> seb128: yes.  that's correct.
[11:05] <desrt> sorry for the bumpy ride with glib lately
[11:05] <desrt> fwiw, i expect it to continue to be bumpy in these sorts of ways
[11:05] <seb128> no worry
[11:05] <desrt> small little issues here and there
[11:05] <seb128> that's less cool
[11:06] <desrt> i don't go out of my way to cause problems
[11:06] <seb128> I hoped we would be over the bumpy part of the road ;-)
[11:06] <desrt> well
[11:06] <desrt> with respect to threading, we are
[11:06] <desrt> but who knows what needs to be beaten on next
[11:06] <ricotz> desrt, hi
[11:06] <seb128> keep working on gsettings and gmenumodel and we are fine :p
[11:06] <desrt> i'm just saying that if i see a situation like this again in the future, i will probably do the same thing agian
[11:07] <ricotz> seb128, hey
[11:07] <seb128> hello ricotz
[11:07] <desrt> and not say "we have to keep it working the broken way"
[11:07] <desrt> ricotz: good morning
[11:07] <seb128> desrt, right
[11:07] <seb128> desrt, well I guess we are mostly fine for this cycle now
[11:07] <desrt> seb128: probably.
[11:07] <seb128> which is what I care about at the moment ;-)
[11:07] <ricotz> desrt, seems like problem with the threading tests locking up is getting worse again
[11:07] <desrt> ricotz: the one i was trying to blame on glibc?
[11:08] <ricotz> hmm, the one running on a very old kernel
[11:08] <desrt> maybe we can blame the kernel this time :)
[11:08] <ricotz> like the launchpad builders running
[11:09] <desrt> which testcase deadlocked?
[11:09] <ricotz> one sec
[11:09] <seb128> chrisccoulson, versions says that firefox 9 isn't buddy with armel and powerpc in precise
[11:09] <desrt> i assume this is with the glibc fix already applied?
[11:10] <ricotz> TEST: gdbus-threading... (pid=10533)
[11:10] <desrt> heh
[11:10] <desrt> i suspect that's our bug
[11:10] <desrt> s/our/davidz's/
[11:10] <ricotz> ok ;)
[11:10] <ricotz> desrt, did you get my post in #gtk+?
[11:10] <desrt> he was making some comments the other day that he's not sure if the testcases are threadsafe
[11:10] <desrt> which is pretty ... unfortunate
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> seb128, not sure why, but the armel build was killed 10 hours in
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> and powerpc is known broken, but i don't care about that ;)
[11:11] <desrt> ricotz: i did.  i didn't understand the problem.
[11:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yeah, it seems like somebody rm-ed the build tree
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> i wish people would tell me when they kill a build
[11:11] <desrt> it's not causing glib to fail to build...?
[11:11] <chrisccoulson> i have no idea why :/
[11:15] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, i'm blocked on https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/179038 now. perhaps this is a sign to fix seb128's bugs
[11:15] <seb128> \o/
[11:16] <chrisccoulson> brb, need to switch to the old kernel
[11:18] <ricotz> cyphermox, hello :), do you noticed some new fallouts with iwl4965 like having a very untable wlan connection and microcode crashes
[11:44] <tbf> are there chances to get old alt-tab switching behavior back for 12.04?
[11:44] <tbf> the new switcher looks incredibly awesome... but...
[11:45] <tbf> i constantly loose windows because i fail to notice i want to switch between windows of the same app
[11:45] <tbf> also my little finger starts to hurt since the ~ key's stoke is much smaller than the tab key's stroke on my thinkpad
[11:46] <tbf> so i really develop some resistance to press alt-~
[11:46] <tbf> another problem: when i accidentally pressed alt-tab instead of alt-~ i now have to tab back to get the window picker to open
[11:46] <tbf> since alt-tab already went to the next window
[11:46] <tbf> it's just not nice.
[11:47] <tbf> despite the gorgeous look
[11:48] <didrocks> tbf: hey, I guess those kind of discussions should happen rather on the ayatana mailing list where designers are (I guess there is also #ubuntu-design channel now)
[11:50] <tbf> didrocks: ok, another list to subscribe. :-D
[11:50] <tbf> thanks you anyway.
[11:50] <didrocks> yw :)
[11:51] <seb128> tbf, you can re-enable the old switcher in ccsm if you don't like the modern workflow ;-)
[11:52] <tbf> seb128: oh, you can? where?
[11:52] <seb128> tbf, just unset the keybindings for the unity one in the unity ccsm options
[11:53] <tbf> seb128: also i am not generally against change.... actually i love unity (and tell everyone)
[11:54] <tbf> only think that this change was a miss step... maybe there is a reason the old alt-tab behavior got adopted quickly and then didn't get challenged for decades... ? ;-)
[11:54] <seb128> tbf, you can unset the keybinding and activate the static switcher then
[11:54] <tbf> ...checking
[11:54] <seb128> tbf, I'm not sure to understand what your issue is with the new one
[11:54] <tbf> guess i'll also loose the awesome presentation, i guess?
[11:55] <seb128> yes, you will be back to the old compiz code
[11:56] <tbf> seb128: first of all i don't see the use case. why do i want to distinguish at all? what's the benefit encouraging to learn this?
[11:56] <seb128> what is to learn?
[11:56] <tbf> seb128: second i get a huge penalty for using the wrong key
[11:56] <tbf> seb128: when to press alt-tab and when alt-~
[11:56] <seb128> you can use alt-tab all the time
[11:56] <seb128> just pause on an icon, it will display the different instance
[11:57] <seb128> the delay is a bit long, that's a known issue and will be fixed this cycle
[11:57] <tbf> seb128: no, you cannot. because when you press alt-tab, the focus already went to the next application
[11:57] <seb128> no it doesn't?
[11:57] <seb128> I can press alt-tab, hit esc and keep typing here
[11:57] <tbf> seb128: so you cannot easily alt-tab between two browser windows, mail compositor and message list, and so on
[11:58] <seb128> well you couldn't before either
[11:58] <seb128> the old switcher didn't sort "by application"
[11:58] <seb128> I would argue it's easier to do with the new one since you get a specific keybinding for that
[11:59] <seb128> note that you can change the keybinding in ccsm if you don't like the default one
[12:00] <tbf> seb128: just tried again: switched to evolution. pressed reply button. once the composer appeared i press alt-tab and end in xchat, instead of the message list
[12:00] <tbf> seb128: when i keep tab pressed, then also xchat gets focused
[12:01] <seb128> that seems a bug
[12:01] <tbf> so to select the message list i'd have to move back and wait until the view zooms
[12:02] <seb128> the "by application" thing is a bit annoying sometimes yes :-(
[12:02] <seb128> hum lunch is ready
[12:02] <seb128> bbiab
[12:03] <seb128> tbf, I'm not saying the new one is perfect btw, some things are nicer some are confusing
[12:03] <seb128> there are some bugs as well that will be fixed this cycle
[12:04] <tbf> maybe caused by the "bias current view port setting"?
[12:05] <tbf> after disabling that setting, alt-tab returns me to the message list
[12:05] <tbf> so maybe "bias current view port" must be done differently?
[12:06] <tbf> seb128: what's the deadline for bugfixes? must decide when to look at this
[12:06] <tbf> or if i'll just file a bug for now
[12:06] <kamstrup> pitti: do you know which dbus version we'll ship for P?
[12:07] <pitti> kamstrup: well, "know" is a strong word; but unless we have a really strong reason to go to 1.5, 1.4.x
[12:07] <tbf> well... maybe let's file a bug first anyway.
[12:07] <pitti> kamstrup: I don't know whether there will be more bug fix releases after .16, but I guess that wouldn't make a difference?
[12:08] <kamstrup> pitti: right, it's not a huge deal - but there is some unity stuff that *might* be affected by upgrading to 1.5.6 or later
[12:08] <kamstrup> because of the eavesdrop heade
[12:08] <kamstrup> rr
[12:10] <kamstrup> it would be nice with a heads up if it's going in at least
[12:11] <pitti> kamstrup: understood
[12:11] <pitti> kamstrup: but anyway, right now we have just about zero problems with dbus, so no reason for us to upgrade
[12:12] <tbf> hey, should have looked there first: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/863399
[12:12] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 863399 in unity "Unity needs a way to switch (tab) between windows on current workspace" [Critical,Fix committed]
[12:19] <tbf> especially i like mark's outlook :-) - https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/863399/comments/25
[12:19] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 863399 in unity "Unity needs a way to switch (tab) between windows on current workspace" [Critical,Fix committed]
[12:25] <seb128> tbf, bug fixes can came late in the cycle
[12:25] <seb128> tbf, the next unity version will do alt-tab by workspace btw
[12:25] <seb128> tbf, so that deprecated the current workspace bias thing
[12:26] <seb128> kamstrup, pitti: do you know if there is a 1.6 schedule?
[12:26] <pitti> I don't
[12:26] <kamstrup> not that I know of
[12:29] <tbf> seb128: yup, mark's post sounds very encouraging
[12:29] <tbf> seb128: just got confirmed feeling home in unity ;-) (sounding like a fanboy now?)
[12:30] <seb128> ;-)
[12:56]  * rodrigo_ lunch
[13:06] <GunnarHj> pitti: Hi Martin,
[13:06] <GunnarHj> pitti: Do you possibly have a few minutes to complete the bug 868346 MPs? I've updated the branch and am available on IRC now for possible follow-up questions.
[13:06] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 868346 in lightdm "Language selector broken in Ubuntu" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868346
[13:41] <pitti> hello GunnarHj
[13:41] <pitti> ah, can take a look
[13:41] <GunnarHj> pitti: Good!
[13:42] <pitti> so locale -a is guaranteed to always have an .utf8 offset?
[13:42] <pitti> s/offset/suffix for UTF-8 locales/
[13:42] <GunnarHj> pitti: Haven't seen it documented...
[13:43] <pitti> GunnarHj: sorry for being picky about the dup/free stuff, I tend to get carried away with those :)
[13:43] <pitti> but there were some actual leaks which should get fixed
[13:43] <GunnarHj> pitti: That's great; memory management in C is a black hole to me so far...
[13:44] <pitti> GunnarHj: not only to you; it's so trivial to get it wrong, guess why we still have to live with so many crashes and memory leaks even in the the 21st century when computers are way faster than we ever need :)
[13:44] <GunnarHj> pitti: As regards locale -a, we have relied on it in Natty and Oneiric (and in Lucid and Maverick backports).
[13:45] <pitti> </rant about C"lapping stones together">
[13:45] <GunnarHj> pitti: What you are saying, basically, is that learning C based on how others do it is not recommended...
[13:46] <dobey> "Unable to send item to calendar 'Personal'.  No such interface `org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Calendar' on object at path /org/gnome/evolution/dataserver/Calendar/10292/4" :(
[13:47] <pitti> GunnarHj: no, I'm saying that writing complex software in C is impossible for a human to get right
[13:47] <pitti> GunnarHj: computers are so much better when it comes to the task of counting references :)
[13:47] <dobey> it's not impossible; just hard
[13:47] <pitti> GunnarHj: I'm just ranting against C, don't take me too seriously
[13:47] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok. No wonder why i love Perl. :)
[13:47] <dobey> especially if the platform is also broken
[13:47] <pitti> (or personal)
[13:47] <dobey> it is much easier to write completely horribly broken software in python, actually :)
[13:47] <chrisccoulson> i like C!
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> but then, i'm weird
[13:48] <dobey> complex software in python is harder to get right, than in C, i think
[13:48] <chrisccoulson> me too. i find python harder than C
[13:49] <dobey> but what do i know; i've only been programming in various forms for over 20 years :P
[13:49] <pitti> well ¬C ≠ Python :)
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> i guess that having a hardware background means that my brain is wired that way around ;)
[13:49] <dobey> chrisccoulson: ASM FTW!
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> lol
[13:50] <pitti> but I don't buy that developers want to/should do reference counting instead of compilers
[13:50] <pitti> because they effing don't get it right
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> the first bit of software i did at college was in machine code!
[13:50] <pitti> it's not like computers had a counting disability or so
[13:50] <chrisccoulson> pitti, yeah, that's why i like scoped pointers in C++ :-)
[13:50] <pitti> right
[13:51] <dobey> pitti: you're not familiar with computers, are you? :)
[13:51] <dobey> "OH SORRY YOU COUNTED TOO HIGH, YOUR NUMBERS ARE NEGATIVE NOW!"
[13:52] <bigon> pitti: uploaded
[13:52] <pitti> \o/
[13:52] <dobey> besides, Python is written in C anyway
[13:52] <chrisccoulson> lol
[13:53] <pitti> languages like Ocaml or Eiffel got that right decades ago
[13:53] <pitti> anyway, back to work
[13:53] <pitti> GunnarHj: so, I'm not quite clear about the purpose of this branch yet:
[13:54] <pitti> GunnarHj: is that mean to be an SRU-only hack for oneiric, or something for trunk eventually?
[13:54] <pitti> GunnarHj: (context: calling internal helper tools from accountsservice)
[13:54] <seb128> vala for the win!
[13:54] <pitti> that might be acceptable for an SRU, but is no-go for trunk or even precise
[13:54] <pitti> seb128++
[13:54]  * pitti carefully unref()'s seb129 again to be back into his olds tate
[13:55] <pitti> "old state"
[13:55] <GunnarHj> pitti: No, it's meant to be both for now. But I intend to get rid of that direct call during the Precise dev. cycle.
[13:56] <dobey> seb128: FTL, because so many things one needs to use are not GObject-based and don't have girs and aren't bound :(
[13:56] <GunnarHj> pitti: Guess it would be confusing to not upload it to trunk/Precise, wouldn't it?
[13:56] <pitti> GunnarHj: it's at least against the SRU policy (fix stuff in dev release first and then backport)
[13:57] <GunnarHj> pitti: Yeah, that's what you usually say. :)
[13:58] <GunnarHj> pitti: How about writing a bug report about it targeted Precise?
[13:58] <pitti> GunnarHj: we can use above bug
[13:58] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok.
[14:18] <pitti> GunnarHj: MP updated; good progress!
[14:19] <GunnarHj> pitti: Did you mean MP uploaded?
[14:19] <pitti> no, sent my review comments
[14:19] <GunnarHj> pitti: Aha. Will look.
[14:19] <pitti> pedro_: with "draft" I primarily mean "set up work items and description and flip status to pending approval"
[14:20] <pitti> pedro_: it looks fine to me, so if you are done with teh blueprint, please set to review, and I'll approve it
[14:20] <pedro_> pitti, ok! i'm only missing the status then, will do it
[14:20] <pedro_> pitti, thanks!
[14:22] <pitti> pedro_: thanks to you!
[14:28] <GunnarHj> pitti: Will make those additional updates later today. Thanks!
[14:28] <pitti> GunnarHj: great, thanks!
[14:28] <pitti> I hope you can catch Robert at some point
[14:28] <GunnarHj> pitti: Will try.
[14:29] <pitti> GunnarHj: I saw your other two MPs (accountsservice/l-s), will get to them by tomorrow
[14:30] <GunnarHj> pitti: Ok, fine. I think they require some discussion as well, but you'd better familiarize yourself with them first.
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> it's all seb128's fault
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> :-)
[15:24] <seb128> what what what?!
[15:24]  * chrisccoulson prepares for more shoulder poking
[15:25] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you should, poke poke poke, what did I do? ;-)
[15:25] <seb128> is it fixed yet?! ;-)
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> nothing. i just needed someone to blame :)
[15:25] <rodrigo_> :)
[15:26] <didrocks> stop blaming, the only one we can blame is chrisccoulson because of nvidia and firefox :p
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> heh
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> that's harsh ;)
[15:27]  * chrisccoulson cries
[15:28] <seb128> we can blame it for tb as well!
[15:29] <seb128> oh, and the fact that ubuntu has no calendar!
[15:29] <seb128> didrocks, that game is too easy, it's no fun! I like the "is it fixed yet" poking game better ;-)
[15:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is it fixed yet? poke ;-)
[15:33] <didrocks> seems it's not, or that he just ignores you now :p
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> gah
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> my name was character limited
[15:34] <seb128> :p
[15:34] <seb128> damn, I missed the opportunity to blue you :p
[15:35] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:58] <rodrigo_> bug 806248
[15:58] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 806248 in unity "No icons shown in Unity launcher" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/806248
[16:03] <seb128> rodrigo_, yes?
[16:03] <didrocks> rodrigo_: you get it?
[16:07] <rodrigo_> didrocks, seb128: no, danilo was asking me about this bug, so needed the link :)
[16:08] <didrocks> he has some hw having this issue?
[16:08] <seb128> didrocks, seems so by reading his recent comment
[16:09] <seb128> on the bug
[16:10] <didrocks> oh indeed, I was stucked on the name, not the nickname :)
[16:11] <didrocks> seems a nux issue, will ping jay about it
[16:11] <rodrigo_> didrocks, see #ayatana, he was asking who might be intertested in some debugging
[16:11] <didrocks> rodrigo_:  I pinged jay
[16:12] <rodrigo_> didrocks, ok
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> right, will be back in a bit
[16:33] <chrisccoulson> popping out for dinner for my daughters birthday :)
[16:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh, have fun! ;-)
[16:47] <pitti> good night everyone!
[16:48] <pitti> well, will be back for TB meeting, but nothing else
[16:48] <seb128> 'night pitti
[16:48] <seb128> pitti, oh, I'm off tomorrow, just for info (still quite some holidays to use so I'm taking fridays)
[16:49] <pitti> seb128: enjoy!
[16:49] <seb128> pitti, thanks ;-)
[16:49] <didrocks> see you on Monday as well pitti!
[17:04] <rodrigo_> out for a bit, bbl
[22:51] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, does the current firefox beta actually work on arm?
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> i was just looking through the build log, and there are thousands of these:
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> /usr/bin/ld.bfd.real: BFD (GNU Binutils for Ubuntu) 2.21.90.20111025 assertion fail ../../bfd/elf32-arm.c:12049
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> but the builds still succeeds
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> just wondering if the binary actually works :)
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[22:52] <chrisccoulson> the tests run, so i guess it does
[23:20] <robert_ancell> The ubuntu-desktop package is generated from a seed right?  Is there any special process for SRUing a change to a seed?
[23:21] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: You would need to make the change to the seed in bzr, then ubuntu-meta needs to be refreshed and uploaded to get the change from the seed.
[23:22] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, so ubuntu-meta is manually generated from the seed?  And the SRU team can do this?
[23:22] <robert_ancell> (and can I update the seed now, or does it need to be proposed)
[23:23] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: The ubuntu-meta package has a script that refreshes the binary package dependencies from the bzr branch containing the seeds, which will need to go through proposed. THe seed change can be made in bzr at any time, but it probably still needs running past ubuntu-sru first.
[23:24] <robert_ancell> I think I'll wait for pitti
[23:24] <TheMuso> Ok.