[00:20] <marsilainen> Azelphur: would you not just run ionice on both:  ionice mysqldump ... | ionice gzip blah.gz
[00:20] <Azelphur> perhaps :P
[00:20] <Azelphur> this is funny, I've got someone on my irc channel atm telling me they can brute force the password on my server
[00:20] <Azelphur> they started off saying that I had root login enabled, I pointed out I'm running Ubuntu server and the root account has no password
[00:21] <Azelphur> now he's saying that he can brute force the username, and the password haha
[00:22] <marsilainen> well he can
[00:22] <marsilainen> given enough time
[00:23] <Azelphur> yea, a few hundred years and a botnet with every single computer on the planet in it :P
[00:23] <Azelphur> and somehow bypassing the laws of physics and making my server have more than a 100mbit connection
[00:24] <marsilainen> is your password: ruhplezA ?
[00:25] <Azelphur> no, I use highly secure very long passwords.
[00:25] <marsilainen> oh, ok
[00:31] <marsilainen> is there a way to turn on auto-raise in unity?
[00:31] <marsilainen> I would like focus-follows-mouse and auto-raise
[00:32] <ubuntubhoy> 3D ?
[00:32] <marsilainen> no thanks
[00:32] <marsilainen> just focus-follows-mouse and auto-raise would be sufficient
[00:33] <Azelphur> marsilainen: haha, just made him look stupid :D
[00:33] <Azelphur> (00:31:17) Azelphur: given my servers 100mbit connection, assuming no protocol overhead whatsoever, 6 bytes per password attempt, you'd be able to check around 2097152 passwords a second, it would take you 273238944967337074 years to guess my 6 character password
[00:34] <marsilainen> you just told him that it's 6 characters - you shouldn't give away that sort of info
[00:35] <marsilainen> also, you said that you use "highly secure very long passwords" <-- 6 characters != very long
[00:35] <Azelphur> marsilainen: next line, (00:31:48) Azelphur: My password is much longer than 6 characters, and you don't know the username :)
[00:35] <marsilainen> aha
[00:36] <ubuntubhoy> marsilainen, I mean Unity 3D or 2D ?
[00:36] <ubuntubhoy> not 3D effects
[00:36] <marsilainen> ubuntubhoy: oh, I see - well whatever the default is in oneiric - I assume 2D?
[00:36] <marsilainen> how do I tell?
[00:36] <ubuntubhoy> nah, its 3D
[00:36] <marsilainen> nothing looks 3d
[00:36] <marsilainen> oh
[00:36] <marsilainen> is that good or bad?
[00:36] <ubuntubhoy> good
[00:36] <marsilainen> ok
[00:36] <marsilainen> so how do I do the above?
[00:37] <ubuntubhoy> you need to install compiz config settings manager
[00:37] <marsilainen> ah, ok
[00:37] <ubuntubhoy> or CCSM as its known
[00:37] <ubuntubhoy> from there you can set focus settings
[00:37] <marsilainen> ok, ta
[00:38] <ubuntubhoy> the dodge to focus effect if its still there is nice
[01:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] 12.04 Ubuntu Developer Summit Proceedings - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/17/12-04-ubuntu-developer-summit-proceedings/
[07:00] <czajkowski> Aloha
[07:25] <AlanBell> morning
[07:26] <bigcalm> Good morning!
[07:26] <bigcalm> This is far too early for any sane person to be awake
[07:28] <bigcalm> And off to Wolverhampton I trot. Toodles :)
[07:29] <MartijnVdS> oodles of toodles?
[08:00] <popey> Morning
[08:09] <popey> i have a thunderbird question...
[08:09] <popey> I have mine setup to connect to an imap server
[08:09] <popey> i have mail sorted on the server into folders, and i can subscribe to those folders in thunderbird
[08:09] <popey> but thunderbird doesnt tell me that there is new mail in those folders till I click on them
[08:09] <popey> this seems sub-optimal
[08:09] <popey> is there any way to change this?
[08:10] <hoover> good morning all
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning popey
[08:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> one account? Maultiple folders?
[08:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Check under File->Subscribe that all folders (for each account are checked).
[08:16] <popey> they are
[08:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> How do they get into the folders on the server?
[08:17] <popey> procmail stuff
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> What is the imap server?
[08:17] <popey> no idea, its not mine
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> OK.
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think it "should" work.
[08:17] <popey> but teh procmail script moves mails
[08:17] <popey> and when I click a folder the number of unread goes up and loads of mail appears
[08:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Might be incomplete imap support on the server?
[08:18]  * popey ssh's to the mail server to find out
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Currently I use TB Filters to move emails to folders. Was going to play with imapfilter or sieve shortly to do it on the server so will be able to compare results
[08:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have you checked bugzilla?
[08:19] <popey> dovecot 1:1.2.9-1ubuntu6.5
[08:19] <popey> thats the server
[08:19] <popey> i have no control over the server though
[08:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sure.
[08:20] <popey> I use a script which detects that mail is from a list and filters it for me, someone else wrote it
[08:20] <popey> it creates folders if tehy dont exist for new mailing lists
[08:20] <popey> and emails me when new folders are created, which is handy
[08:20] <popey> i dont want to filter locally, i have two computers, dont want to have to set them both up
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed. That's why I was interested in imapfilter and sieve for the same reason.
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Our mail server (Zentyal) supports sieve.
[08:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> And I have a Sieve plugin for TB. But it's a bit poo.
[08:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> sieve that is.
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> imapfilter looks more interesting.
[08:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I assume that on your "account settings" for the server you have check for mail on startup and check for new messages every x minutes set
[08:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Also check the Synchronisation and Storage settings section.
[08:55] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:55] <MartijnVdS> howdy AlanBell
[09:10] <DJones> Morning
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> 255 and Pac-Man - Numberphile - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umYvFdU54Po
[09:23] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[09:27] <brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
[09:35] <JamesTait> "What a beautiful day, hey hey, what a beautiful day!" Good morning all! :)
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings.
[09:37]  * TheOpenSourcerer has helped popey this morning. I thought that was impossible.
[09:38] <bigcalm_lappy> 2nd good morning peeps :)
[09:40] <popey> lol
[09:40] <brobostigon> morning TheOpenSourcerer
[09:40] <Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer: did you wash your hands afterwards?
[09:40] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: i never really used thunderbird in anger
[09:41] <Daviey> Once you have 'helped' popey, you always end up with those difficult moments where you can't look eachother in the face the same.  And the difficult lift conversations.
[09:41]  * BigRedS uses it angrily all the time
[09:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:46] <davmor2> morning all
[09:46] <bigcalm_lappy> Haha, what have I walked in on?
[09:46] <bigcalm_lappy> gord: where are you?
[09:46] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[09:48] <selinuxium> 'lo   o/
[09:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> The Nexus is now on sale.
[09:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-57326558-264/android-4.0-arrives-as-galaxy-nexus-goes-on-sale/
[09:52] <AlanBell> is that the one you want or are you going to wait for something bigger?
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno. Still totally undecided
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> The Note or Nexus, Nexus or Note???
[09:53] <czajkowski> AlanBell: do not drop it or lose it :)
[09:53] <AlanBell> I have not lost my S2
[09:53] <czajkowski> davmor2: come back after 6 please
[09:53] <AlanBell> did drop it a little bit, but it is OK
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Now has his phone chained to his third limb.
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> err fith
[09:53] <AlanBell> it is ringing
[10:06] <bigcalm_lappy> Just got a call from somebody's number that isn't in my contacts list. I had no idea who it was but they knew me. Wrong number in any case and they hung up. I am so confused
[10:10] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/sets/72157606644018228/
[10:10]  * oimon notices that oblivion is on offer in steam today, < £4
[10:10] <oimon> i don't have a good enough graphics card to play it :(
[10:13] <popey> bigcalm_lappy: disapointed you didnt do a hitler tasche
[10:15] <bigcalm_lappy> popey: I have a scar in the middle of my upper lip that stops hair from growing there
[10:35] <oimon> anyone know about the flossie conference?
[10:35] <oimon> maybe czajkowski?
[10:38] <bigcalm_lappy> oimon: is that a dentist convention?
[10:39] <AlanBell> oimon: bastubis is organising it
[10:39] <czajkowski> .c
[10:39] <oimon> it's being held in my offices/building :D
[10:40] <czajkowski> not sure of the dates
[10:40] <oimon> in 2012
[10:40] <oimon> i think i'm getting roped in to helping
[10:41] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[10:42] <czajkowski> davmor2: after 6
[10:44] <AlanBell> oimon: in CMU?
[10:44] <oimon> AlanBell: QMUL
[10:44] <AlanBell> thats what I meant to type :)
[10:51] <CaMason> Morning all. Trying to upgrade to 11.10 from 11.04. Needs 1.5GB on / which I don't have. I do, however, have 10GB on /home. How could I work around this to upgrade?
[10:52] <popey> reinstall over the top rather than upgrade?
[10:52] <BigRedS> CaMason: what're your partitions like? Just a / and a /home?
[10:52] <CaMason> BigRedS, precisely that
[10:53] <CaMason> old Eee 901 netbook. 2 SSDs, one 4GB, one 16GB. 16GB is slower though
[10:53] <Laney> mount some stuff inside /home
[10:54] <Laney> like /var/cache/apt
[10:54] <CaMason> that cache is pretty empty actually
[10:54] <popey> it will be
[10:54] <CaMason> the big areas are places like /var/lib
[10:54] <popey> it will download during the upgrade
[10:54] <CaMason> dpes the upgrade download to /var/cache/apt ?
[10:54] <popey> yes
[10:54] <popey> thats where the debs go
[10:54] <CaMason> ok. Move that to /home and symlink it?
[10:54] <popey> could do
[10:54] <popey> I have done that in the past
[10:55] <CaMason> I have some /usr/local/ stuff set up that way
[10:55] <popey> but I would still expect you would run out on the first SSD
[10:55] <CaMason> 494MB free on /
[10:55] <Laney> tight
[10:55] <popey> i reinstalled mine with / on the 16GB SSD and swap on the 4GB
[10:56] <popey> no home partition
[10:56]  * BigRedS mumbles about swap files
[10:56] <BigRedS> :)
[10:56] <gord> home partitions are so 2009
[10:56] <Laney> my headphones are shredding themselves :(
[10:56] <CaMason> but the 16GB ssd is slow as..
[10:56] <popey> its not exactly bleeding edge netbook these days to be fiar
[10:56] <popey> *fair
[10:56] <popey> although both my kids have that model
[10:56] <popey> running 11.04
[10:57] <CaMason> no, it isn't - that's why I'd rather not make it slower than it is :)
[10:57] <popey> heh
[10:57] <popey> crunchbang it is then ☺
[10:57] <popey> I have crunchbang on an Intel Classmate, flies along
[10:57] <CaMason> I'm still amazed at it though with Ubuntu running on it..
[10:57] <popey> and the classmate is even slower than the 901
[10:57] <dogmatic69> if you specify 0.0.0.0/0 as the ip adders that means everything?
[10:57] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah
[10:57] <dogmatic69> cool
[10:57] <CaMason> I used it to demo a new project infront of some very big companies in the security industry
[10:57] <dogmatic69> what would be any internal address?
[10:58] <CaMason> We have 5 companies demonstrating, all connecting into one central machine (this 901)
[10:58] <CaMason> good talking point
[10:58] <CaMason> apart from the CTOs that came over and said "Ahh, I see you're running a Mac"
[10:58] <bigcalm_lappy> Looks like davmor2 is 'busy' ;)
[10:58] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: how are you defining 'internal'?
[10:59] <BigRedS> and what is it you're configuring?
[10:59] <davmor2> bigcalm_lappy: nearly as busy as you :P
[10:59] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: private ip? not sure the terms to use. i want to specify ssh connections to a server on aws only from within aws
[11:00] <BigRedS> what are you specifying thsi to?
[11:00] <dogmatic69> so i have 10 servers on aws, one can only be connected from static office ip, other 9 only from the other server
[11:00] <BigRedS> do you mean teh 10.x.x.x addresses you get on amazon?
[11:00] <dogmatic69> in the firewall / security group settings
[11:00] <dogmatic69> ye
[11:01] <BigRedS> I thought in Amazon, by default things in the same sec group can do anything to each other
[11:01] <CaMason> My 901 got run over too, btw
[11:01] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: maybe...
[11:01] <CaMason> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/136067/eee/DSC00664.JPG http://dl.dropbox.com/u/136067/eee/DSC00669.JPG
[11:01] <BigRedS> but otherwise you 'just' need the cidr notation for the subnet amazon's giving yoyu
[11:01] <BigRedS> which will be really vague
[11:01] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: ill investigate that some more
[11:01] <BigRedS> with Amazon, from my limited experience, you basically need to abandon the idea of doing things right, and instead find out how Amazon wants you to do it
[11:02] <popey> anyone know of a good ebay sniping tool for linux?
[11:02] <dogmatic69> sniping?
[11:02] <CaMason> what sort of files go into /usr/share ?
[11:03] <gordonjcp> CaMason: documentation, graphics, sound files
[11:03] <CaMason> hm ok. Perhaps that's a candidate to be moved to sdb
[11:03] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah, cheating at ebay
[11:03] <CaMason> 860MB at the moment
[11:03] <BigRedS> automatic bid-placers that get it in the last small fraction of a second
[11:04]  * dogmatic69 is a champ at that
[11:04] <dogmatic69> dont need a tool :D
[11:05] <dogmatic69> CaMason: http://i.imgur.com/Tcst1.jpg
[11:05] <CaMason> dogmatic69, nice one
[11:05] <dogmatic69> reddit ftw
[11:05] <dogmatic69> http://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/mdxrn/linux_file_structure_image_probably_a_repost_but/
[11:05] <CaMason> /saved
[11:06] <popey> thats changing soon ☺
[11:06] <davmor2> hey gord fancy seeing you here :D
[11:06] <popey> if fedora do it, I suspect we will too
[11:06] <CaMason> what is?
[11:06] <dogmatic69> popey: no more saving files all over the place?
[11:06] <czajkowski> popey: TheOpenSourcerer AlanBell make any head way on a co working space ?
[11:06] <popey> moving binaries so we don't have /usr/bin /usr/sbin /sbin/
[11:06] <BigRedS> it hardly matters given how few maintainers stick to it
[11:06] <bigcalm_lappy> Of course it would have to be while I'm away from the office that Thunderbird decides to download 20k emails
[11:06] <CaMason> popey, rationale?
[11:07] <AlanBell> czajkowski: I haven't looked into it much yet
[11:07] <CaMason> also, is `cp -R` a safe way to copy a large folder + subfolders?
[11:07] <popey> CaMason: less confusion
[11:07] <popey> CaMason: i use Rvp
[11:07] <BigRedS> CaMason: cp -a is better
[11:07] <BigRedS> preserves timestamps, permissions and owners
[11:08] <AlanBell> CaMason: is there activity going on in the folder as you copy it?
[11:08] <CaMason> AlanBell, no
[11:08] <AlanBell> in that case cp should be fine
[11:08] <BigRedS> you may as well mv, if the point is to clear space?
[11:08] <CaMason> it is... and yes, you're right. herp derp.
[11:08] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: so if you do sudo cp -a .... it will not make everything root?
[11:09] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: nope, it'll end up owned by the same user or uid as before
[11:09] <dogmatic69> omg
[11:09] <dogmatic69> and that does . files?
[11:10] <BigRedS> er, I'm not sure actually
[11:10] <BigRedS> I imagine so, though
[11:10] <BigRedS> a '*' doesn't match dotfiles, but recursively acting on a directory that contains some really has no excuse not to
[11:11] <CaMason> This was my ethernet port on my 901 after a car said hello to it: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/136067/eee/DSC00671.JPG
[11:11] <CaMason> still works!
[11:14] <popey> haha
[11:15] <Laney> ooo, my copy of TLPI is out for delivery
[11:16] <gordonjcp> CaMason: what did you do to it?
[11:16] <CaMason> erm..
[11:16] <CaMason> I left it ontop of a car. Got a call from the police 2 hours later
[11:16] <CaMason> "Someone's found your bag"
[11:16] <CaMason> ports crushed, plus broken screen. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/136067/eee/DSC00664.JPG
[11:17] <bigcalm_lappy1> Who do I blame for the dodgy wifi at the Lighthouse?
[11:17]  * bigcalm_lappy1 blames davmor2 because he's closest
[11:18]  * AlanBell wonders whether to kick bigcalm_lappy2 to ##fix-your-connection
[11:18] <BigRedS> they're multiplying!
[11:19] <bigcalm_lappy> I was sorting out grouped nicks
[11:19] <bigcalm_lappy> Will stop now
[11:19] <AlanBell> its fine :)
[11:19] <BigRedS> oh, actually, no that's just addition really, isn't it
[11:19] <gordonjcp> CaMason: oops
[11:19] <gordonjcp> CaMason: oh well, fixable I suppose
[11:20] <CaMason> gordonjcp, yup. Works fine 2 years later
[11:20] <gordonjcp> easy enough to get a screen and change the socket
[11:20] <CaMason> which I did
[11:20] <CaMason> wasn't very expesive either
[11:22] <gord> some of us have awesome servers running znc ;)
[11:23] <hoover> hey biggie
[11:24] <bigcalm_lappy> Howdy hoovie
[11:29] <hoover> hung over...
[11:29] <hoover> yourself?
[11:30] <bigcalm_lappy> Tired and clock watching. Where I am today do a great burger
[11:31] <bigcalm_lappy> Yes, I will be having the very garlicy garlic bread
[11:31] <bigcalm_lappy> Usually it's an advantage of working from home - you don't have to worry about strong breath after lunch
[11:31] <bigcalm_lappy> Today I have 3 people to amuse with some garlic bread :D
[11:33] <deej1976> Dentist + Cheese and Onion crisps :D
[11:34] <dogmatic69> anyone run other distros?
[11:34] <popey> dentist + monster munch
[11:34] <popey> dogmatic69: i use ubuntu on everything except an imac and an intel classmate
[11:34] <oimon> guys, if i have a 280W PSU and want to buy a extneral gfx card to play games, am i screwed, or is there a cheap card that i can get that won't killl my PSU?
[11:34] <dogmatic69> well you work for canonical...
[11:35] <dogmatic69> would not expect anything else :P
[11:35] <hoover> I never learn it seems ;-)
[11:35] <bigcalm_lappy> hoover: celebrating something?
[11:35] <gord> oimon, "external" graphics card?
[11:36] <oimon> gord: i.e. not onboard one
[11:37] <bigcalm_lappy> oimon: you won't get one that can play games nicely
[11:37] <gord> oimon, i wouldn't ;) if you want games, onlive go for it :)
[11:37] <oimon> bigcalm_lappy: i don't want the best experience in the world , but say i wanted to play oblivion..
[11:37] <oimon> it's a few years old now
[11:38] <oimon> hoping to get a budget card that might let me play those type of game
[11:38] <daubers> oimon: Isn't that called a console these days :p
[11:38] <popey> dogmatic69: same before I worked for canonical
[11:38] <bigcalm_lappy> I've got an USB DVI graphics adaptor that just about works in Linux and will let you play Minecraft ok.
[11:38] <oimon> i have a wii :-\
[11:39] <oimon> is minecraft high spec?
[11:39] <daubers> oimon: You can probable get a 360 for £150 these days
[11:39] <oimon> looks like the dire straits video
[11:39] <oimon> by budget i mean <30 quid :)
[11:39] <oimon> oh you mean xbox
[11:39] <daubers> heh :)
[11:40] <oimon> i don't really have time to play too much, so it's not worth investing too much money..some people buy a whole new rig just to play one game :-\
[11:40] <hoover> bigcalm_lappy: not exactly
[11:41] <gord> oimon, i used to play oblivion on an nvidia 6600, you can get them dirt cheep
[11:41] <hoover> damn dsl is all bouncy bouncy today
[11:41] <hoover> cheers all
[11:41] <oimon> gord, so a http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-GeForce-Silent-Profile-Bracket/dp/B003B03OTA/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321530098&sr=8-1-fkmr0 would be ok?
[11:42] <gord> oimon, for oblivion, more than enough :)
[11:42] <oimon> there's a lot of mis-info out there saying that it would be useless for that kind of game
[11:42] <oimon> cheers
[11:43] <oimon> i have one at work i can borrow for eval purposes
[11:48] <popey> AlanBell / TheOpenSourcerer you going to the Digital Surrey thing in Egham next week?
[11:48] <popey> just got the reminder, printed my ticket
[11:48] <popey> I can't go to the xmas drinks, it's on a UUPC night
[11:50] <dogmatic69> any recommendations for monitoring x number of servers (foss)
[11:50] <popey> landscape :D
[11:51] <popey> ok, not foss ☺
[11:51] <deej1976> dogmatic69: nagios
[11:51] <dogmatic69> been playing with ganglia which seems pretty good, its just dated
[11:51] <dogmatic69> deej1976: not foss
[11:52] <dogmatic69> $2,246 USD is a long way from OS
[11:53] <deej1976> http://www.nagios.org/download
[11:53] <deej1976> The Open Source monitoring solutio
[11:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Yes to DS Next week.
[11:55] <TheOpenSourcerer> Just been having an amusing time with my lovely wofe.
[11:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/wife
[11:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> She spilt a cup of tea all over the window controls in her Merc A class. yesterday.
[11:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> The windows open and close randomly - even with the key not in the ignition.
[11:57] <MartijnVdS> cool
[11:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> Have now dropped said car off at the Merc garage for investigation.
[11:59] <gord> I do believe your car is haunted
[12:00] <MartijnVdS> gord: nah it wasn't pumpkin juice or virgin blood -- it was tea
[12:01] <bigcalm_lappy> I wonder when we'll break for lunch
[12:01] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I used to have a similar problem in very rainy weather in a Citroën XM, because water would drip into the relays that controlled the sunroof
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: especially during the full moon?
[12:01]  * popey has mushroom soup for lunch
[12:02] <popey> I'm eating so much more healthily now I'm working from home
[12:02] <MartijnVdS> not just more?
[12:03] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: no, just when it was raining, which in NW Scotland is quite frequently
[12:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gah - why when I am in *ANY* app and I enter CTL+F to load the search tool, instead I get a small terminal window popping up? Where would the keypress be configured?
[12:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> Happens in FF, Chrome, Gedit.
[12:03] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: cured by cleaning out the sunroof tray drain tubes and clarting the relay bases with silicone
[12:03] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: your window manager
[12:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> etc...
[12:04] <Daviey> popey: I often forget to eat when working from home :)
[12:04] <gord> eating healthy lasts for a while, yesterday i had two bacon sarnies with nothing else
[12:05] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I'm bad with stuff like that. "Ooh it's broken. Garage time."
[12:05] <MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Dutch_proverbs#T ("Twee linkerhanden hebben
[12:06] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: one of the reasons I drive relatively old cars is because they're very easy to fix
[12:06] <Daviey> gord: Imagine my dilemma.. I have lots of bacon, but currently no bread.
[12:06] <gordonjcp> Daviey: put the bacon between slices of bacon
[12:06] <Daviey> Do i A) Go to the shop to buy some bread .. B) Wish i had done A
[12:06] <Daviey> or C, as gordonjcp suggested.. yum
[12:06] <popey> wooooot
[12:07] <popey> just won an asus transformer on ebay :D
[12:07] <popey> "won"
[12:07] <DJones> In byobu, on the stats info at the bottom, I've got an "(R)" in blue and a "16!!" in red, what do they mean
[12:07] <popey> R means restart
[12:07] <MartijnVdS> popey: for £a_lot?
[12:07] <popey> 16!! means you have 16 updates to do
[12:07] <gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: on my work van, I can just about top up the screenwash (which I need to remember to do)
[12:07] <popey> !! means security updates i think
[12:07] <lubotu3`> popey: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[12:07] <DJones> popey: Thanks, that explains it
[12:09] <popey> MartijnVdS: ~380 GBP
[12:13] <Daviey> popey: Can you win me one aswell please?
[12:15] <daubers> and then when Daviey pays you, can you ship it to me please?
[12:16]  * popey leaves negative feedback on ebay. it hasn't arrived yet, and I paid 5 minutes ago!
[12:19] <popey> hmm, anyone using thunderbird on unity?
[12:19] <popey> I have a number of unread mails = 1 in the unity launcher, but i have no unread mail
[12:19] <popey> it doesnt seem to update the launcher icon
[12:20] <gord> popey, thunderbird thinks you do somewhere
[12:20] <czajkowski> http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/11/17/hp_canonical_ubuntu_cloud_top_dog/  hmm interesting
[12:20] <gord> its annoying, you just have to find it
[12:20] <popey> gord: pressing "n" reveals no new mail
[12:21] <popey> it went to 1 when a mail arrived in a folder, i read that mail, now it's not gone down
[12:21] <bigcalm_lappy> The mail notification icon will update eventually
[12:21] <popey> it's been a few minutes
[12:22] <popey> bah, lunchtime
[12:23] <DJones> popey: I use thunderbird & it does seem to update, although last night it said I had 1 unread email when there were none in the inbox & 250+ in the junk mail folder
[12:23] <oimon> thunderbird used to be great for me. then i upgraded :(
[12:27] <bigcalm_lappy> *shiver*
[12:39]  * oimon wants an asus transformer
[12:40] <oimon> there's so much more i'd do with a tablet if it had a keyboard
[12:41] <popey> \o/ chicken soup
[12:41] <gord> oimon, you want a laptop
[12:41] <davmor2> popey: what happened to the mushroom?
[12:41] <DJones> Now we know AlanBell's chicken ended up
[12:42] <popey> it had a long use by date so i decided to have chicken instead
[12:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> (12:01:54) ***popey has mushroom soup for lunch
[12:42] <oimon> gord, i want a laptop that i can unplug the screen and take to meetings/bed sans keyboard
[12:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> Followed by Chicken Soup.
[12:42] <popey> made some crutons too
[12:42] <AlanBell> DJones: no, but it was alive last time I saw it
[12:42] <popey> or 'cretins' as my dad calls them
[12:42]  * TheOpenSourcerer thinks popey's claims about healthy eating are unfounded.
[12:42] <popey> hah
[12:43] <popey> compared to what I did at last place...
[12:43]  * AlanBell has curry for lunch
[12:43] <AlanBell> not sure whether to try a bit of naga with it
[12:43]  * TheOpenSourcerer wonders what he will have.
[12:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> GO ON AlanBell
[12:43] <oimon> home made pot noodle
[12:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> DO IT
[12:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Eat it whilst fresh!
[12:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> You won't regret it. Honestly.
[12:44] <AlanBell> I suspect I will
[12:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nah.
[12:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gah
[12:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[12:45] <popey> ok, so i got another couple of mails, read them, now launcher says I have 2 mails
[12:51]  * AlanBell prepares curry, rice, naga, large drink of milk and defibbrilator
[12:52] <Darael> AlanBell: I read "naga" as meaning snake.  That would be a bit odd, though, so what does it mean in this context?
[12:53] <oimon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_Jolokia_pepper
[12:53] <bigcalm_lappy> davmor2 has lost it. Somebody get him a burger, stat!
[12:53] <oimon> should probably eat it on the bidet
[12:54] <Darael> Ah.  A variety of chilli.
[12:55] <Darael> Probably named in comparison to snakebite.
[12:55] <Darael> Sounds fun.
[12:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> Specifically AlanBell has a Bhut Jolokia (Dorset Naga).
[12:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naga_Jolokia_pepper#Dorset_Naga
[12:57] <cooldudeyeah> how does one calm down. I just want to learn physics, electronics, programming to the point where I don't go out and make friends :P
[12:58] <cooldudeyeah> similar to an addicted 12 year old who loves video games
[12:58] <shauno> throw in some AI classes, and hope that one day you'll be able to build your own friend?
[12:59] <tugrik> surely throw in some AI classes, build a teacher?
[12:59] <cooldudeyeah> lol
[12:59] <cooldudeyeah> Might not wor
[12:59] <cooldudeyeah> work*
[13:00] <oimon> cooldudeyeah: how old are you?
[13:00] <cooldudeyeah> You don't have to go to university to be an expert, right?
[13:00] <cooldudeyeah> 19
[13:00] <Darael> cooldudeyeah: Treat interpersonal relationships as training for if thou ever needest to reverse-engineer a complicated program given no information on it.
[13:00] <cooldudeyeah> haha
[13:00] <tugrik> Darael: spot on :)
[13:00] <cooldudeyeah> I hate school though
[13:00] <Darael> Well, that's what I'm doing in /theory/.  I'm useless at doing that in practice.
[13:00] <cooldudeyeah> hated*
[13:00] <DJones> cooldudeyeah: Its not so much calming down, its getting older & then realising you can't do everything :)
[13:01] <cooldudeyeah> yeah :(
[13:01] <tugrik> school is good for access to other people, resources, and seeing the formal way of doing things
[13:01] <oimon> cooldudeyeah: channel the enthusiasm in to a job and you will probably be happy :)
[13:01] <Darael> cooldudeyeah: I hated it too.  I'm hoping uni (which I start next October; I'm gap-yearing in India) will be better due to, eg, fewer people who don't really want to be there.
[13:02] <cooldudeyeah> The thing is
[13:02] <tugrik> and yes, you'll soon realise you can find things to learn faster than learning them... everything you learn will increase your desire to learn new things you don't have time to learn... this will make you sad and bitter
[13:02] <tugrik> HTH
[13:02] <tugrik> ;)
[13:02] <Darael> Sad and bitter, or determined to defy apparent impossibility.
[13:02] <Darael> 'Course, the latter won't last forever.
[13:02] <Darael> Probably.
[13:03] <Darael> We'll see.
[13:03] <tugrik> heh, I flick between the two Darael :)
[13:03] <cooldudeyeah> I love meeting people who are very smart in the area of science and programming and never got a formal education
[13:04] <cooldudeyeah> for example, when you read a physics paper published in a journal and the author hasn't even got a background in physics
[13:04] <CaMason> Has the ability to change DPI been removed by default on 11.10?
[13:06] <Darael> CaMason: ISTR people complaining that Gnome3 didn't have that option anywhere in its config dialogs, and we /are/ basing on g3 now.
[13:07] <CaMason> :(
[13:07] <cooldudeyeah> has anyone here got a job in programming without a degree
[13:07] <cooldudeyeah> ?
[13:07] <CaMason> I employ someone who doesn't have a degree. PHP though
[13:08] <CaMason> He's good, but can't pronounce 'integer' or 'indices' as he's only ever read it, not heard it.
[13:08] <oimon> heh
[13:08] <ali1234> how does he pronounce them?
[13:08] <CaMason> integger and in-dice.
[13:08] <oimon> cooldudeyeah: were your grades OK at school?
[13:09] <cooldudeyeah> oimon average
[13:09] <oimon> a-levels?
[13:09] <cooldudeyeah> yes
[13:09] <oimon> grades?
[13:09] <cooldudeyeah> Cs
[13:09] <cooldudeyeah> and a A in IT
[13:09] <CaMason> also, where can I specfy the system-wide fixed-width font? Or is that also AWOL..
[13:09] <cooldudeyeah> but lol IT in the UK is nothing tbh
[13:09] <gord> gnome-tweak-tool
[13:10] <CaMason> I got a B at A-level in IT, but I got 86% in my degree
[13:10] <ali1234> afaict there's no such thing as a "job in programming" any more, unless you are willing to become self employed and undercut the outsourcing firms
[13:10] <oimon> life is long. i still recommend people get degrees as it shows aptitude and commitment
[13:10] <CaMason> A degree is very useful anyway..,.
[13:10] <gord> there are lots of programming jobs
[13:10] <gord> looots
[13:10] <CaMason> 3 or 4 years with lots of free time
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> looooooooooooots
[13:10] <CaMason> over 9000
[13:10] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: yes
[13:11] <CaMason> Monospaced at 11pt is insanely spaced
[13:11] <CaMason> 10pt or 12pt is fine
[13:11] <ali1234> there are lots of jobs where you job is to manage three indian guys who don't even speak english let alone php
[13:11] <cooldudeyeah> How about a perl programmer
[13:11] <cooldudeyeah> :D
[13:11] <cooldudeyeah> perl and python
[13:12] <ali1234> if you have 20 years experience in perl there's plenty of jobs
[13:12] <cooldudeyeah> lol
[13:12] <cooldudeyeah> crap
[13:12] <cooldudeyeah> :P
[13:12] <cooldudeyeah> how about just creating a  github
[13:12] <cooldudeyeah> and presenting it at the interview
[13:13] <CaMason> I tasked the guys I hired with a task
[13:13] <cooldudeyeah> oh yeah
[13:13] <CaMason> a small Twitter-based app, PHP 5.3, using some specific patterns, and send me a git branch
[13:14] <cooldudeyeah> how long do you give them to do it ?
[13:14] <CaMason> as long as they wanted
[13:14] <cooldudeyeah> days?
[13:14] <cooldudeyeah> hours?
[13:14] <CaMason> about a day
[13:15] <CaMason> gave them some tricky UTF-8 tasks. They had to read up on it. No problem there - shows they can learn
[13:15] <gord> actually no, C++, perl is for sysadmins mostly
[13:16] <gord> php is something there is less jobs in for outsourcing
[13:16] <oimon> cooldudeyeah: if you don't meet the requirements for a uni course and are keen, then you can do a foundation year too
[13:16] <oimon> i wouldn't unnecessarily write off uni
[13:16] <CaMason> Save a particular tweet, which was entity-ecoded UTF-8, in a binary column, then render the bytes as ISO-8859-1
[13:17] <cooldudeyeah> ahhh good point
[13:17] <ali1234> CaMason: you expected them to use design patterns for that?
[13:17] <CaMason> not much - some simple dependency injection
[13:17] <cooldudeyeah> what other areas do you assess them
[13:17] <cooldudeyeah> ?
[13:18] <cooldudeyeah> interview question, probably
[13:18] <cooldudeyeah> anything else?
[13:18] <CaMason> primarily, are they smart, and can they learn
[13:18] <ali1234> i dunno if i dare ask what dependency injection is
[13:18] <cooldudeyeah> attitude
[13:18] <ali1234> it sounds like something a junkie would do
[13:18] <CaMason> lol
[13:18] <cooldudeyeah> would you allow them to show you what they have done
[13:18] <cooldudeyeah> ...programming wise of coruse
[13:18] <cooldudeyeah> course *
[13:18] <CaMason> yes, I encouraged it
[13:19] <CaMason> I don't care if people f*** things up, so long as they learn
[13:19] <CaMason> It's more productive for us to take someone on who's not an expert and can learn, than someone who is very set in their ways
[13:19] <cooldudeyeah> yeah I've already met some people like that
[13:20] <CaMason> I had one dev who was very particular in his approach, and wouldn't use anything other than SVN
[13:20] <CaMason> code was mostly procedural. He was great at algorithms, but wasn't suitable for the project at the time
[13:20] <CaMason> certain architectural designs made his head implode
[13:29] <oimon> probably had aspie tendencies
[13:29] <oimon> people behind debian invterview with sadbfl: http://raphaelhertzog.com/2011/11/17/people-behind-debian-mark-shuttleworth-ubuntus-founder/
[13:32] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I ate it
[13:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> All of it
[13:33] <AlanBell> I didn't eat the seeds, but ate all the flesh
[13:33] <davmor2> AlanBell: Wuss
[13:33] <BigRedS> anyone know how I tell Thunderbird to re-ask Gnome how it should be displaying dates?
[13:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> The heat is "not" in the seeds. It is in the placenta: the bits that hold the seeds to the flesh.
[13:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> And you are still alive AlanBell
[13:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> SO that's OK then.
[13:34] <AlanBell> I am somewhat alive
[13:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Was it warm then?
[13:34] <AlanBell> sweating a bit
[13:38] <czajkowski> hehe
[13:39] <bigcalm_lappy> My goodness, this chocolate cake is dry
[13:39] <oimon> microwave it for 10 secs?
[13:40] <shauno> chocolate cake for lunch?  hang on, let me find my violin ..
[13:40]  * TheOpenSourcerer just had a cheese sarny with chilli chutney* *(50 Chillies + 25 Cloves of Garlic, a few spices. Fried and liberally mined)
[13:40] <bigcalm_lappy> Pudding
[13:40] <bigcalm_lappy> Lunch was a very splendid beef burger
[13:40]  * popey had _chicken_ soup and croutons
[13:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/minced
[13:40] <popey> and some noodles ;)
[13:40] <popey> bigcalm_lappy: sleepy afternoon ?
[13:40] <czajkowski> chicken sambo and noodle soup with a bag of fruit from tesco
[13:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> The wife's tea accident has just cost £220
[13:41] <bigcalm_lappy> popey: we'll see how much work I get done
[13:41] <popey> ouch
[13:41] <bigcalm_lappy> TheOpenSourcerer: ouch
[13:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> No chrimbo pressies for her then ;-)
[13:41] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: what was that spilt on then?
[13:41] <czajkowski> tea accident ?
[13:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Her A Class window controls
[13:41] <czajkowski> aww
[13:41] <AlanBell> oh dear
[13:42] <czajkowski> at least dshe' ok
[13:42] <DJones> Did the cup survive?
[13:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yep.
[13:43] <DJones> I'm waiting to find out how much an engine rebuild is costing
[13:43] <Laney> cars :(
[13:44] <bigcalm_lappy> A good vessel for one's tea is as important as the tea itself
[13:44] <popey> uhoh
[13:45] <popey> my desktop looks like its going to explode
[13:45] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741175/
[13:45] <popey> http://imgur.com/WK3fl
[13:45] <popey> had no swap enabled until monday
[13:45] <popey> now amount of swap use is climbing
[13:45] <DJones> Shut chrome down
[13:45] <popey> but my precious tabs!
[13:45] <DJones> Or just use one tab
[13:46]  * popey kills a few
[13:46] <dwatkins> sort by memory usage in top with 'M'
[13:46] <dwatkins> but you knew that ;)
[13:47] <oimon> is it me or is grub2 a lot harder to use than old grub ?
[13:47] <oimon> i now struggle with dual boot etc
[13:47] <popey> dwatkins: it is sorted by memory
[13:47] <dwatkins> oh sorry popey
[13:47] <DJones> oimon: Its not just you, seems a lot more complex
[13:48] <shauno> I find grub2 easy enough; but the mass of scripts that autoproduce a config on ubuntu drive me scatty
[13:48] <oimon> is there an easy way ? a gui perchance?
[13:48]  * popey ticks "Reopen the pages that were opened last"
[13:48] <oimon> i want to add a second drive running GameOS
[13:48] <shauno> I find it easier to sit down and write a config from scratch, than to figure out how that bash soup works
[13:49] <Myrtti> hohum
[13:50] <Laney> spotify:track:73q3FpQVXWk5eSUnyo83E4 Laney's Pop Song Of The Day™
[13:50] <dwatkins> What is it for those of us without Spotify pls, Laney?
[13:50] <popey> N Sync
[13:51] <popey> _really_ laney?
[13:51] <Laney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZcmuKsyvzg&ob=av2e
[13:51] <Laney> the video makes it better
[13:51] <dwatkins> heh thanks for saving me from clicking, popey ;)
[13:51] <Laney> :(
[13:51] <Laney> i'll do better tomorrow
[13:52] <czajkowski> Myrtti: know the feeling
[13:53] <Myrtti> I think I'll just amuse myself by watching glee music videos
[13:53] <czajkowski> Myrtti: or help me shop for xmas pressies for a geek :)
[13:55] <oimon> how about an ubuntu mug warmer :)
[13:57] <popey> Ubuntu beer
[14:00] <gord> should of got the ubuntu travel mug thingy at uds, it looked pretty good
[14:03] <popey> DJones: pc much better now I restarted chrome, ☺
[14:04] <gord> someone has a fancy autoreplace setup ;)
[14:15] <popey> LOUD MUSIC O'CLOCK!
[14:16] <Laney> home working is such fun, eh?
[14:16] <popey> ☺
[14:16] <dogmatic69> popey: clock must be stuck, its been LOUD MUSIC O'CLOCK all day
[14:16] <popey> dangerously close to recording a webcam video of me dancing
[14:16] <popey> this would not be wise
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> More alcohol!
[14:17] <popey> spotify:track:2B2tDWOUrtosv1VsQTgq1q
[14:17] <dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: don't encourage him
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: why not?
[14:17] <popey> Laney: my cheesy music for today ☺
[14:17] <Laney> we should make a #ubuntu-uk playlist
[14:17] <dogmatic69> g+ full of videos of popey dancing :S
[14:17] <Laney> music to home work by
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: Moves like Jagger? Really?
[14:18] <popey> I know! :D
[14:18] <MartijnVdS> popey: something to fix that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZrdwXjzKOY
[14:19] <Laney> i have the best songs on my profile
[14:19] <Laney> spotify:user:laney
[14:19]  * Laney thinks user:popey might not be popey
[14:20] <popey> popeydc
[14:20] <popey> can you see my playlists? ⍨
[14:20] <popey> hehe, they all have 'publish' ticked
[14:21] <Laney> i have clares list on
[14:21] <Laney> kylie \o\ |o| \o/ |o| /o/
[14:21] <popey> heh
[14:22]  * popey is listening to http://open.spotify.com/track/47CvNTibRzvUdDJoYYMsM7 
[14:22] <Laney> huh
[14:22] <Laney> i wonder when spotify started working with firefox
[14:23] <MartijnVdS> popey: spotify:track:2fOeQSDDVJmHufYSh8dbE3
[14:24] <Laney> ooh yeah grandaddy, good idea
[14:25] <gord> i'm listening to whatever davmor2 is currently humming
[14:25] <MartijnVdS> gord: God Save the Queen?
[14:27] <popey> MartijnVdS: thats nice
[14:29] <davmor2> I'm descending from outta space to find another race.......
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: Zorg's entire album is great (La Vie Privée de Zorg)
[14:31] <MartijnVdS> popey: he is (was?) on the same label as Lemongrass :)
[14:33] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: that's only appropriate when sung by Freddie on video ;)
[14:33] <bigcalm_lappy> I think it might be nap time
[14:34] <bigcalm_lappy> Or time for another coffee
[14:34] <bigcalm_lappy> Which will make me more productive?
[14:34] <bigcalm_lappy> And who's round is it?
[14:34] <davmor2> gords
[14:34] <bigcalm_lappy> o/
[14:42] <AlanBell> the naga has worn off now
[14:44] <oimon> woo i just found a gnome-integration addon for thunderbird :D
[14:44] <oimon> i get libnotify working again for new emails
[14:53] <BigRedS> Well, that was a dumb bug
[14:53] <BigRedS> I was comparing backed-up file size with local file mtime :/
[15:23] <selinuxium> lol
[15:23] <selinuxium>  /me needs to remember which window is in focus...
[15:23]  * selinuxium also needs to remember to not put a space before /me
[15:27] <andylockran> guys, how do I run the 'screen' configuration tool from the CLI in Oneric
[15:27] <andylockran> I want to disable it turning off
[15:27] <MartijnVdS> there is a configuration tool?
[15:27] <MartijnVdS> man screen?
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> do you mean byobu?
[15:28] <andylockran> MartijnVdS: I meant display/screen
[15:28] <andylockran> not screen screen :p
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> ah
[15:28] <andylockran> haven't got an oneric box to play on
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> it's in the top right corner, in the menu
[15:28] <MartijnVdS> "Screens"
[15:32] <gord> andylockran, "gnome-control-center screen"
[15:37] <andylockran> gord: ta
[15:37] <andylockran> :D
[15:49] <andylockran> Anyone looking for a job as a SysAdmin?
[15:49] <oimon> andylockran: what u got?
[15:50] <andylockran> http://www.cwjobs.co.uk/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=52160597
[15:51] <oimon> i'm also gonna be looking for a graduate SA for around that range. i'd be interested in the response you get
[15:56] <diplo> Guys, wats the default for sending emails on natty server
[15:56] <diplo> exim ?
[15:58] <andylockran> oimon: sure, I'll let you know - where are you based?
[15:58] <diplo> fail2ban trying to send an email but sendmail not installed
[15:58] <oimon> andylockran: london
[15:59] <diplo> Can't any of you work in Bristol/Bath area ?
[15:59] <oimon> tried hiring for a more experienced role last year and struggled. however, your position should draw from a wider pool
[15:59] <bigcalm_lappy> diplo: whichever mta is installed, it will most likely include a sendmail interface for other applications to use
[15:59] <diplo> Can't find anything bigcalm
[15:59] <oimon> diplo: my wife would probably like that...but no :)
[15:59] <diplo> I'm guessing something gets installed by default
[16:00] <oimon>  Postfix is the default Mail Transfer Agent (MTA) for Ubuntu.
[16:01] <diplo> Can't find that being installed either, always thought something got installed
[16:01] <bigcalm_lappy> DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu 10.04.3 LTS"
[16:01] <bigcalm_lappy> iain@revo:~$ which sendmail
[16:01] <bigcalm_lappy> /usr/sbin/sendmail
[16:02] <bigcalm_lappy> I think I have postfix installed on that server
[16:02] <oimon> ls -ld /usr/sbin/sendmail
[16:02] <bigcalm_lappy> It's not sendmail, the mta gives a sendmail interface
[16:02] <Laney> stop having my name!
[16:02] <diplo> andy@asgard:/var/log$ which sendmail
[16:02] <diplo> andy@asgard:/var/log$ which postfix
[16:02] <diplo> andy@asgard:/var/log$
[16:02] <diplo> :)
[16:03] <bigcalm_lappy> There you go :)
[16:03] <diplo> So install postfix I guess
[16:03] <bigcalm_lappy> Install an mta :)
[16:03] <bigcalm_lappy> Laney: whom has your name?
[16:03] <diplo> Didn't want to install anything if I was just being dumb and couldn;t find it
[16:03] <Laney> use ssmtp or nullmailer
[16:03] <Laney> bigcalm_lappy: YOUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuu
[16:03] <bigcalm_lappy> Oh, me :)
[16:03] <bigcalm_lappy> Heh
[16:04] <oimon> does server still not include ssh-server?
[16:04] <bigcalm_lappy> Laney: there are few of us in this world
[16:04] <diplo> Nope not afaik, was a huge chat on ubuntu-server
[16:04] <diplo> dustin kirkland was for a default yes
[16:04] <diplo> others were against
[16:04] <diplo> So guessing still not in there
[16:04] <andylockran> you can select it by default easy enough
[16:05] <Laney> sigh
[16:05] <Laney> woe is closing a chroot without saving its data
[16:09] <bigcalm_lappy> 16:05 and people are starting to be productive in here
[16:09] <bigcalm_lappy> Far too many people have coughs here. Help
[16:09] <Laney> take a rebreather
[16:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> I kept being kicked off irc for excess flooding or something/
[16:12] <dogmatic69> * TheOpenSourcerer has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[16:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> Not me. I was still here. Twitter was still gabbling away too.
[16:19] <popey> uhm
[16:19] <popey> on 11.10 64-bit, latest update gives me errors with libldap-2.4-2
[16:19] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741324/
[16:19]  * DJones Note to self, don't update tonight
[16:20] <popey> same on two machines
[16:21]  * TheOpenSourcerer deletes a folder "Popey" from TB
[16:21] <popey> ☺
[16:21]  * gordonjcp hasn't got any machines running 64-bit
[16:22] <gordonjcp> haven't got any that *can* run 64-bit, at that
[16:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> And writes several sieve scripts to do server-side email filtering ;-)
[16:33] <Laney> popey: that sounds like archive skew
[16:33] <Laney> i.e. something that will sort itself out shortly
[16:35] <popey> ok
[16:35] <monsterwizard> god damn it
[16:35] <monsterwizard> 67% on a assignment
[16:35] <monsterwizard> I hate group work
[16:36] <Laney> why hasn't my book come yet :(
[16:36] <oimon> in order to get payments made i have to print a pdf , send it via internal mail, which gets scanned as a pdf :(
[16:37] <Laney> the office will close soon
[16:37]  * Laney grumbles
[16:37] <oimon> generally i have to send the thing a few times cos they get lost on people's desks
[16:40] <popey> Laney: makes sense
[16:41] <Laney> you mean they can just wait until 17:01 and fail delivery because they know nobody will be there?
[16:42] <jonsaint> hi all. been a way for a while and now getting used to this new ubuntu! can someone direct me as to how i uninstall libav files, i cant seem to find how on this new one
[16:43] <popey> bah
[16:43] <popey> my desktop just shut itself down
[16:43] <Darael> jonsaint: well, there's always the command-line (apt-get remove package-name), but I use that too much myself to be able to comment on how it's done with the Software Centre.
[16:43] <popey> powered off whilst I was using it
[16:43] <jonsaint> can it be done in software centre hen??
[16:44] <Laney> that happened to the missus, and it never came back
[16:44] <Darael> jonsaint: I would /assume/ that one could search it for the package, and possibly click the "<num> technical items" thing near the bottom.
[16:44] <popey> i think it's overheated
[16:44] <popey> it boots then shuts down almost immediately
[16:44] <popey> its not old
[16:44] <Laney> crack it open
[16:44] <popey> yeah
[16:45] <popey> on a conf call
[16:45] <popey> love headphones
[16:45] <jonsaint> just trie to type it in software centre but nothing came up. im very much an amature on ubunty!
[16:46] <Darael> jonsaint: There may be a link somewhere on the empty search page about "display <num> technical items"?
[16:47] <jonsaint> Darael, im trying to install devede but its saying need to uninstall a few libav files first and im baffled as to how to uninstall them
[16:47] <CaMason> just spotted the word headphones... any suggestions for a pair of comfertable, in-ear buds? (cheap too, preferably)
[16:48] <CaMason> lol comfertable... what a spelling fail.
[16:48] <popey> yeah, i have some sennheiser ones
[16:48] <CaMason> £££££ or ££?
[16:48] <popey> bought at airport
[16:49] <CaMason> comfy though?
[16:49] <oimon> sennheisers in ear too
[16:49] <oimon> very nice
[16:50] <oimon> cheap from richer sounds
[16:50] <oimon> or amazion
[16:50] <CaMason> there's a richer sounds down near me, Plymouth
[16:50] <kvarley> How can I get the output from a command and format it in bash? By format I mean search for a particular start point and  then end after a space
[16:51] <jonsaint> frustrating!!!
[16:54] <shauno> kvarley: I want to say awk, but it the easiest method will depend what your output actually looks like
[16:54] <kvarley> shauno: I have seen grep used, will that do the job?
[16:55] <shauno> that'll pick out the right line, not the right word
[16:55] <deej1976> kvarley: command | cut [options] | cut [options] > file
[16:56] <kvarley> shauno & deej1976: thanks
[17:01] <Darael> kvarley, shauno: grep /can/ do the job - there's a flag that makes it output only the matching parts of each matching line.  Can't remember what it is off the top of my head.  'course, there's the cut solution, too.
[17:01] <kvarley> I'm trying to get ifconfig to return just the local inet addr of the machine with no other characters either side of the string
[17:04] <DJones> Has anybody come across this before http://www.desura.com/groups/desura/news/public-release-of-the-linux-client
[17:05] <kvarley> DJones: Yes I use Desura
[17:06] <DJones> Looks interesting, reads like Steam but with a native linux client
[17:06] <funkyHat> kvarley: perhaps sed -n 's/.*\(start[^ ]*\).*/\1/ p'
[17:06] <directhex> it works
[17:06] <funkyHat> That is totally untested
[17:06] <directhex> desura is mostly small indie games, fwiw
[17:07] <funkyHat> Oh getting the IP out of ifconfig
[17:07] <DJones> A lot of the game names I see on their website seem to be already in the default repo's
[17:12] <Barbarian> evenin' gents
[17:12] <Barbarian> got my hands on the desura source code today :D so psyched
[17:13] <funkyHat> kvarley: ifconfig wlan0 | sed -n 's/.*addr:\([^ ]*\).*/\1/ p'
[17:13] <funkyHat> Replace wlan0 with the name of the interface you want to check
[17:14] <kvarley> funkyHat: thanks, how do I remove the trailing line it adds?
[17:15] <funkyHat> kvarley: for some reason wrapping it in echo $() seems to sort that
[17:15] <funkyHat> I don't really know why
[17:16] <kvarley> funkyHat: haha ok, it works perfectly anyways, thanks a lot! =)
[17:16] <funkyHat> ⢁) np
[17:17] <shauno> a lot of things do subtley different things when the output isn't being redirected. usually you'll never notice because they just do the right thing ;)  (like ls not using columns when you pipe it)
[17:18] <funkyHat> In zsh \ p also seems to get output to the line with the IP address, but it doesn't seem to be via STDOUT
[17:20] <funkyHat> Also I wouldn't have expected sed to be something that treats STDOUT differently to a pipe
[18:10] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Welcoming Our New Horseman: Michael Hall - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/17/welcoming-our-new-horseman-michael-hall/
[18:16] <celesteh_> hello, i have switched from running xfce to gnome and i think i'm happier, but i'm wondering how i can disable clicking by tapping my laptop's touchpad?
[18:16] <Azelphur> celesteh_: it's in system > preferences > mouse
[18:17] <celesteh_> thank you azelphur
[18:17] <celesteh_> this is a lonovo tablet and the touch screen theoretically supports multitouch. do i need to install drviers or something for that?
[18:18] <Azelphur> no idea.
[18:21] <Myrtti> hm
[18:21] <Myrtti> I just had a thought about the virtual keyboards in Ubuntu
[18:22] <popey> Myrtti: have you seen the meego keyboard?
[18:22] <Myrtti> oh yeah, it's nice
[18:22] <Myrtti> but the point is
[18:22] <Myrtti> Intel made some sort of a deal with Swype Inc in order to get Swype into Intel version of the MeeGo image
[18:23] <popey> oh
[18:23] <Myrtti> so perhaps Swype could be made available atleast in the software central for people to buy it
[18:23] <Myrtti> I'd totally pay for it especially if it came with Finnish support
[18:25] <Myrtti> and since the Intel Meego had it, there has to be some sort of feasability to the idea - I had the Intel image of MeeGo on this same tablet
[18:26] <Myrtti> atleast on technical sense
[18:41] <awilkins> Why is it so quiet in here around 1840? I demand entertainment!
[18:41]  * chrisjrob does a backward somersault 
[18:41] <awilkins> I would stamp my foot, but /me doesn't work on this stupid phone IRC client
[18:42] <awilkins> Likewise, would applaud etc. etc.
[18:42] <awilkins> /me tried /me again
[18:42] <chrisjrob> wish i could do that irl
[18:43] <Darael> awilkins: It's so quiet around here in 1840 because we haven't invented IRC yet.
[18:43] <awilkins> To impress laydee or evade zombies
[18:44] <chrisjrob> are there zombies in here?
[18:44]  * chrisjrob looks worried
[18:45] <chrisjrob> freakyclown: wherever i go you're already there
[18:45] <awilkins> Well, 89 of them, it seems. Or maybe they're *really* dead instead of just quiescent
[18:46] <chrisjrob> that's the problem with irc - you can't see them walking slowly towards you, arms outstretched
[18:46] <AlanBell> Myrtti: Dell did a similar deal to get it on the streak
[18:46] <awilkins> Holy monkey, they just apologised for 3 mins of train lateness
[18:47] <awilkins> They don't usually even admit it untul it's at least 10
[18:49]  * Darael walks slowly and invisibly toward awilkins, arms outstretched, before ruining the effect with a cry of "GRRAAAAAIINSSSS".
[18:50] <awilkins> I remove the carrot from my pocket and toss it into the distance.
[18:53] <gordonjcp> zombie plumber
[18:53] <gordonjcp> wants your draaiiinnnnsssss
[18:53]  * Darael ignores the carrot, since he is looking for grrrraaaaaaiiiinssssss rather than root vegetables.
[18:55] <awilkins> I follow up with a harvest crunch bar, lamenting the lack of ability to use "/me" that makes me sound like an inexperienced RPG player not ascribing his actions to his character
[18:56] <Darael> I think I'll stop this, at this point.  It can't possibly end well.
[18:57] <chrisjrob> no, don't stop, that's how they get you
[18:58] <awilkins> Rule 1 : Cardio
[18:58] <awilkins> The corrolary should be not to throw away your harvest crunch bar in case of stamina depletion
[20:26] <riaz23_> hi there,
[20:26] <Darael> Greetings.
[20:31] <riaz23_> i have a problem. actually i was installing the ubuntu version 11.10 and the files were downloaded from internet but while installing the updates my system shutdown due to POWER porblem nad after that when i started the system the previous version is also not working. i have come across such problem 1st time so can anyone help me what to do now
[20:33] <AlanBell> riaz23_: can you get to a terminal?
[20:34] <riaz23_> yes <AlanBell> I can.
[20:34] <jutnux> Evening gentlebeans.
[20:34] <jutnux> Just tried a toast sandwich.
[20:35]  * bigcalm collapses
[20:36] <jutnux> So how're you all?
[20:36] <AlanBell> jutnux: ooh, I nearly had one of those today, how was it?
[20:36] <AlanBell> riaz23_: sudo apt-get install -f might help
[20:36] <jutnux> AlanBell, Extremely nice! I'm quite full at the minute. Remember to smother it in butter, salt and pepper.
[20:36] <bigcalm> AlanBell: glad to see we now have 6 confirmed peeps for the meal :)
[20:37] <bigcalm> AlanBell: I might stop reminding people every day now ;)
[20:37] <riaz23_> ok dear AlanBell: trying that
[20:37] <AlanBell> riaz23_: depends a bit how broken things are, you might weigh up the time involved in fixing them vs new install
[20:37] <jutnux> I wish I could come bigcalm! Maybe in a couple of years ;)
[20:37] <AlanBell> jutnux: will do
[20:37] <AlanBell> bigcalm: yes, it is looking good
[20:37] <jutnux> AlanBell, definitely worth it though.
[20:37] <AlanBell> daubers: hi
[20:38] <AlanBell> daubers: can you remove yourself from the maybe attending list at your ealiest convenience please :)  http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
[20:38] <riaz23_> AlanBell: how can I install new one? actaullay i am unable to see GUI
[20:39] <AlanBell> bigcalm: is is great that doctormo can come over from America for it
[20:39] <jutnux> Have you been to Dans Le Noir before AlanBell ?
[20:39] <jutnux> or bigca
[20:39] <jutnux> bigcalm,*
[20:39] <bigcalm> AlanBell: somebody is coming all the way from the states for the ubuntu-UK meal?
[20:39] <AlanBell> riaz23_: I mean a fresh install from downloading a new CD, or getting one posted http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[20:40] <bigcalm> jutnux: I have not
[20:40] <AlanBell> bigcalm: yes (he is a brit, coming home early for christmas)
[20:40] <bigcalm> Ah, sweet :)
[20:40] <AlanBell> jutnux: no, not been there before, but I have been to a similar concept in Vienna
[20:41] <jutnux> Oh right AlanBell. Was it good?
[20:41] <AlanBell> it was excellent
[20:42] <jutnux> Awesome.
[21:00] <oimon1> um...is it possible to fry a VGA cable?
[21:00] <oimon1> by plugging into a new video card
[21:01] <gordonjcp> oimon1: you might bend a pin
[21:01] <oimon1> gordonjcp: is looks perfect
[21:01] <gordonjcp> there's usually nothing "smart" in the cable
[21:01] <oimon1> and is in great condition
[21:01] <oimon1> no wobbly bits.
[21:01] <oimon1> the last thing i saw was "unsupported video mode" and then failed to display
[21:02] <oimon1> after i'd installed new gfx card. climbed into loft to get the spare monitor and i thought i'd try to vga cable..
[21:02] <DJones> AlanBell: I'll have to try & meet up with doctormo when he gets back home since he's from the same town as me & went to school with some of my mates
[21:03] <DJones> Had tried to meet up last year, but I ended up busy when a night out had been planned
[21:12] <daubers> AlanBell: Yup! Intending to do so tomorrow, got a discussion at work that hinges on me going or not
[21:12] <AlanBell> ok, thanks daubers
[21:14] <jutnux> Does anyone know if SOPA succeeded or not?
[21:14] <jutnux> Or is it still going on?
[21:16] <popey> Laney: looks like the issue is still not fixed with libldap i386
[21:21] <daubers> urgh, ldap
[21:22] <popey> uhm
[21:22] <bigcalm> Had my flu jab this evening
[21:22] <popey> loads of things are disappearing from my launcher as I am looking at it
[21:22]  * bigcalm sneezes over everybody
[21:23] <bigcalm> I blame gord if I get sick
[21:23] <popey> seriously all of libreoffice just disappeared
[21:23] <popey> and polly
[21:23] <bigcalm> o.O
[21:23] <jutnux> popey, I thought LibreOffice didn't work with Unity?
[21:24] <popey> un  libreoffice                               <none>                                    (no description available)
[21:24] <czajkowski> polly ?
[21:24] <jutnux> The launcher, that is.,
[21:24] <popey> uhm
[21:24] <popey> I am installing the nvidia binary driver
[21:24] <popey> and loads of my desktop is being ripped out
[21:24] <czajkowski> oh dear
[21:24] <bigcalm> Oh poo
[21:24] <DJones> popey: It must be something in the last 24 hours of updates, after your comment earlier, I haven't run updates today & everything is running fine
[21:24] <bigcalm> Did somebody put rm -rf / into a package update?
[21:25] <popey> its that libladp:i386
[21:25] <popey> it wants to remove everything
[21:25] <popey> and me installing nvidia-current is letting it do that
[21:25]  * bigcalm keeps away from updates for a bit
[21:25] <czajkowski> popey: oneiric?
[21:25] <ali1234> it's not doing that for me
[21:26] <ali1234> using apt-get anyway
[21:26] <DJones> czajkowski: polly -> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/latest-update-to-twitter-app-polly-adds-real-time-updating/
[21:27] <jutnux> Weekend tomorrow, finally.
[21:27] <mattt> jutnux: yusss!
[21:27] <jutnux> mattt, happy times!
[21:27]  * jutnux wants another toast Sandwich
[21:28] <DJones> \o/ Friday, I can have my car back :)
[21:28] <czajkowski> ah cool
[21:28] <mattt> and more heineken cup this weekend
[21:28] <popey> ali1234: you on amd64 and have flash installed?
[21:29] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741631/
[21:29] <popey> that lot got removed
[21:29] <mattt> krikey
[21:29] <jutnux> Holy hell.
[21:30] <ali1234> popey: yes
[21:30] <jutnux> Not that you need gwibber ;)
[21:30] <jutnux> Oh, ubuntu-desktop got removed.
[21:30] <jutnux> Not good.
[21:30] <ali1234> i already don't have ubuntu-desktop
[21:30] <ali1234> maybe that's part of it somehow
[21:31] <DJones> Is it recoverable from?
[21:31]  * popey reinstalls it all
[21:31] <popey> yes
[21:31] <popey> what a mess
[21:31] <DJones> I'm on 64 bit, flash installed, I'm willing to give updates a chance as long as its recoverable
[21:31] <Daviey> popey: what happend?
[21:31] <popey> so sequence of events is, 64 bit install, has 32-bit flash installed, did updates today, it wanted to update libldap 64b-bit
[21:32] <ali1234> i thought desktop was supposed to be the focus?
[21:32] <popey> but failed to update libldap:i386
[21:32] <popey> broken dependancy
[21:32] <DJones> Pretty sure I've got 64 bit flash installed
[21:32] <popey> that i386 package was needed by libcurl:i386 which was needed by flashplugin-installer
[21:32] <popey> i386
[21:32] <Daviey> popey: is that a regression from a -security or -updates upload?
[21:32] <ali1234> oh, i do have ubuntu-desktop installed
[21:32] <ali1234> your system must just be messed up popey
[21:32] <popey> wherever the latest libldap came from today
[21:32] <popey> no ali1234
[21:33] <ali1234> i told you not to install those funny debs
[21:33] <popey> its not
[21:33] <popey> Daviey: my pc crashed earlier so i yanked the disk out and put it in my nvidia desktop
[21:33] <ali1234> heh
[21:33] <Daviey> popey: It would be good to get to the bottom of it asap, after tomorrow it'll hang around to Monday.
[21:33] <popey> i had a red alert in the corner because of the apt mess due to unresolved dependancy with libldap:i386
[21:34] <popey> i figured as laney said earlier its probably just repos out of sync
[21:34] <popey> so i waited and still had the red light
[21:34] <ali1234> which repo are you using?
[21:34] <popey> standard ones
[21:34] <ali1234> well i am using the standard ones too
[21:34] <Daviey> popey: security upload by the looks of it
[21:34] <popey> so i just used jockey to install nvidia-current
[21:34] <popey> which then proceeded to install nvidia-current and remove half my desktop
[21:35] <popey> including all that you just saw in the paste
[21:35] <DJones> Just looking at update manager, I can see libldap-2.4-2 and libldap-2.4-2:i386 available to update
[21:35] <Daviey> popey: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openldap/2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1 , doesn't look dangerous from a package dep PoV
[21:35] <Laney> popey: weird, what mirror are you using?
[21:35] <popey> DJones: right, can you apt-get dist-upgrade
[21:35] <jutnux> Is anyone doing anything for Children In Need tomorrow?
[21:35] <popey> and not go through with it
[21:35] <DJones> Give me a sec
[21:35] <popey> and get a copy/paste to pastebin
[21:35] <ali1234> popey: i just did that
[21:35] <DJones> popey: sudo? or not
[21:36] <popey> yes
[21:36] <ali1234> http://pastebin.com/NhLUx5iy
[21:36] <popey> i worked around it on another machine by doing "sudo apt-get remove libldap-2.4-2:i386 libcurl3:i386 flashplugin-downloader:i386 flashplugin-installer"
[21:37] <DJones> http://pastebin.com/38S9CNG1
[21:37] <Daviey> smells like a multiarch bug IMO.
[21:37] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741638/
[21:37] <czajkowski> Laney: evening! nice to have finally have met you
[21:37] <Laney> czajkowski: likewise!
[21:38] <czajkowski> it really does help to put the faces to the names on here
[21:38] <ali1234> popey: what version of dlashplugin-installer is that?
[21:38] <czajkowski> but realy name tags at breakie is a must!
[21:38] <popey> i removed it
[21:40] <Laney> wget http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/oneiric/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz -q -O- |  zcat | grep-dctrl -FPackage -sPackage,Version libldap
[21:40] <Laney> does not show 4.1
[21:43] <Laney> hah, s/oneiric/oneiric-security/
[21:46] <SuprEngr> http://bbc.co.uk/pudsey - text "donate" *to 70705
[21:46] <jutnux> SuprEngr, now donating.
[21:47] <SuprEngr> jutnux, :)
[21:50] <jutnux> SuprEngr, http://paste.ubuntu.com/741649/
[21:50] <SuprEngr> ...& thanks
[21:52] <SuprEngr> jutnux, ...& having read that - *many* thankyous
[21:53] <jutnux> No problemo.
[21:53] <jutnux> A worth cause.
[21:53] <Laney> i just realised i was muttering to myself as my housemate washed up in the same room
[21:53] <Laney> too polite to say anything
[21:55] <jutnux> ahaha
[21:57] <Laney> i cannot reproduce this ldap thingy :(
[21:58] <ali1234> neither can i
[21:58] <popey> i had it on two machines
[21:58] <ali1234> isn't there an apt log somewhere?
[21:58] <popey> both clean installs
[21:58] <popey> both amd64
[21:58] <jutnux> Anyways
[21:58] <jutnux> Now going
[21:58]  * jutnux waves goodbye to everyone
[21:58] <Laney> is one of them still unupgraded?
[21:58] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741661/
[21:59] <popey> dpkg log
[21:59] <mattt> jutnux: night
[22:00] <ali1234> so did you reinstall ubuntu-desktop?
[22:00] <popey> i installed ubuntu-desktop^
[22:00] <popey> after jockey removed everything
[22:00] <ali1234> it must be a problem of jockey?
[22:00] <popey> no
[22:00] <popey> ok, let me explain
[22:00] <ali1234> because apt-get is not doing this
[22:00] <popey> I have two machines
[22:01] <popey> they both had the same problem, they both said there was a dependancy resolution issue with libldap i386
[22:01] <ali1234> what was the problem?
[22:01] <popey> that was the first I knew there was some kind of issue
[22:01] <popey> i pastebinned something earlier today
[22:02] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741324/
[22:02] <popey> thats what i pastebinned earlier
[22:02] <popey> so i tried -f and it said "I need to remove all this stuff" and listed basically half the desktop
[22:03] <popey> so i said 'no'
[22:03] <popey> and left it
[22:03] <Laney> jockey really ought not to have done that
[22:03] <popey> and on that machine I (later) manually removed libldap:i386 and flash etc (as I outlined above a bit)
[22:03] <popey> now, on my other machine
[22:04] <popey> which was in a similar state, red light in the indicator area
[22:04] <popey> on that one I needed to install nvidia driver, so used jockey
[22:04] <ali1234> so the problem is in an older version of ldap
[22:04] <popey> as soon as I clicked 'activate' the red indicator for update manager went away
[22:04] <popey> then apps started disappearing from the launcher
[22:04] <popey> as it ripped out the desktop
[22:05] <ali1234> what does "breaks" actually mean wrt apt?
[22:06] <Laney> got to bake a cake, sorry - brb :(
[22:06] <ali1234> "When one binary package declares that it breaks another, dpkg will refuse to allow the package which declares Breaks to be unpacked unless the broken package is deconfigured first, and it will refuse to allow the broken package to be reconfigured."
[22:07] <ali1234> so we have libldap-2.4-2 : Breaks: libldap-2.4-2:i386 (!= 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1) but 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4 is installed
[22:07] <popey> i need to get this down in a bug
[22:08] <popey> against what tho?
[22:08] <ali1234> now there's two things that bother me about that line
[22:08] <SuprEngr> has anyone realised that if you remove Banshee from 11.10 and replace it with Rhythmbox, it sets movie player as your the play music option - I would've complain but found it so funny... I was too tired from laughing!
[22:08] <ali1234> SuprEngr: you can configure those now
[22:09] <ali1234> but only banshee and movie player show up in the list and you can't easily add your own options
[22:09] <ali1234> so remove banshee and movie player is all that's left
[22:09] <ali1234> anyway about that line
[22:09] <SuprEngr> ali1234, yep - only took me 12 minutes to find where it put Preffered Apps
[22:09] <ali1234> first this: libldap-2.4-2:i386 (!= 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1) . the packages are not equal. so why is it a problem?
[22:10] <SuprEngr> [under system Info - wtf!????
[22:10] <ali1234> SuprEngr: everything is in there now. blame gnome
[22:10] <ali1234> ah i see
[22:10] <ali1234> it is all clear to me now
[22:11] <SuprEngr> ali1234, actually imho - there is vet little in there
[22:11] <SuprEngr> *very
[22:11] <ali1234> popey: what it's telling you is you *need* to have the exact same version of ldap and ldap:i386
[22:12] <ali1234> libldab that is
[22:12] <ali1234> don't ask me how you got unmatched versions
[22:12] <ali1234> but somehow you did
[22:12] <popey> heh
[22:12] <ali1234> and now neither one can be upgraded because doing so would make it out of sync with the other one
[22:12]  * bigcalm sneaks off to bed
[22:12] <popey> Cannot connect to crash database, please check your Internet connection.
[22:13] <popey> HTTP Error 502: Bad Gateway
[22:13] <popey> thanks apport
[22:13] <popey> yeah, bed here too
[22:13] <ali1234> libldap-2.4-2:i386 : Breaks: libldap-2.4-2 (!= 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4) is saying you can't install this along side any version except for 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4
[22:13] <ali1234> and the other one wants .1
[22:14] <ali1234> so they exclude each other
[22:14] <ali1234> and obviously ubuntu-desktop relies on them
[22:14] <ali1234> so the only way to resolve it is to remove both
[22:14] <ali1234> at which point the problem evaporates into nothing
[22:14] <ali1234> along with ubuntu-desktop
[22:14] <AlanBell> erk
[22:15] <AlanBell> so, is this wrong in the repos right now?
[22:15] <ali1234> no, not right now. i just updated with no problems
[22:15] <ali1234> most likely this is something that went wrong in the repos a while ago and nobody noticed
[22:15] <ali1234> for example, the package versions got out of sync
[22:15] <popey> i udated right after the security note came out
[22:15] <ali1234> popey upgraded some time ago, nothing bad happened
[22:16] <AlanBell> was popey unlucky installing between uploads of the two packages?
[22:16] <ali1234> then someone realised out of sync packages = bad and changed the deps
[22:16] <ali1234> and so popey was unable to upgrade. but anyone who didn't upgrade at exactly the wrong time, potentially weeks ago, will not be affected
[22:16] <ali1234> AlanBell: looks that way to me
[22:17]  * AlanBell does an update
[22:17] <ali1234> i have not run any updates for about two weeks
[22:17] <ali1234> then ran one just now, everything was fine
[22:19] <AlanBell> !info libldap
[22:19] <lubotu3`> Package libldap does not exist in natty
[22:19] <ali1234> i currently have 2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1 for 32 and 64
[22:19]  * AlanBell grumbles at the bot
[22:19] <AlanBell> !info libldap oneiric
[22:19] <lubotu3`> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
[22:20] <ali1234> nice try
[22:20] <popey> !info libldap2 oneiric
[22:20] <lubotu3`> 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
[22:20] <popey> bah
[22:20] <AlanBell> and no jussi at the moment
[22:21] <popey> its jpds' bot isnt it?
[22:21] <AlanBell> oh, maybe it is
[22:21] <ali1234> would probably be helpful at this point to see the dependency info for the old one
[22:21] <popey> also fwiw, my laptop was a clean install 4 days ago
[22:22] <AlanBell> and upgraded at the time of install?
[22:22] <popey> yes
[22:22] <popey> and other packages over the course of this week
[22:23] <Myrtti> ohmygawd, Hairy Bikers ♥ Just watched their episode of Vegetarian food and I can't remember when I've last drooled so much
[22:23] <SuprEngr> perhaps best left at... 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution
[22:23] <AlanBell> popey: grep libldap /var/log/dpkg.log might be interesting
[22:23]  * SuprEngr counts days till 12.04
[22:24] <ali1234> so the .1 is the bugfx release
[22:24] <ali1234> my best guess is you updated when only one version was available
[22:24] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741689/
[22:25] <ali1234> popey: that's after you got that dpkg error though
[22:25] <popey> no
[22:25] <popey> that dates back to 12th
[22:26] <popey> the 15:54 is when I updated earlier today
[22:26] <ali1234> 12 of august
[22:26] <popey> after that update the red light appeared for i386
[22:26] <popey> h
[22:26] <popey> oh
[22:26] <ali1234> oh is that a grep on ldap?
[22:26] <AlanBell> thats when it went wrong
[22:26] <popey> need older dpkg.log
[22:26] <popey> yes
[22:26] <ali1234> no that should have everything
[22:26] <SuprEngr> aww go on someone - ask me why I've gone anti- 11.10 all of a sudden
[22:26] <popey> you're right thats all of it
[22:27] <Daviey> popey: i just did the update, doesn't look like i have that issue.  But then, i might have less multiarch than you.
[22:27] <ali1234> popey: look at the 15:54 stuff
[22:27] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741690/ thats the whole log
[22:27] <ali1234> it upgrades the 64 bit one, but not the i386 one. that's where it broke
[22:27] <popey> yeah
[22:28] <ali1234> presumably at that time the i386 package was not up yet
[22:28] <AlanBell> today, between uploads
[22:28] <ali1234> i can check by looking at the mirror timestamps...
[22:28] <Daviey> I'd be qute suprised if ie86 and amd64 were not published on the same run
[22:29] <Daviey> They were copied from the Security team PPA, so it's not as if they were built at different times and published seperately.
[22:29] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741694/
[22:29] <popey> thats the log from landscape
[22:31] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741691/ output of grep libldap /var/log/dpkg.log for me
[22:31] <ali1234> yeah you got both upgraded
[22:32] <popey> i wonder if this is because i upgraded via landscape
[22:32] <popey> is landscape multiarch aware?
[22:32] <ali1234> it looks like popey's update at 4pm bombed out at libldap:i386?
[22:33] <ali1234> did you get a dpkg update between 4pm and 8pm?
[22:33] <Daviey> popey: I don't know that smart handles multi-arch TBH
[22:34] <popey> hmmm
[22:34] <popey> does smart log?
[22:34] <popey> ali1234: pass
[22:34] <Daviey> NFI
[22:34] <popey> i see nothing in /var/log
[22:55] <Laney> too lazy to bake :(
[22:55] <Laney> / tired
[22:56] <Laney> it would be weird if they weren't published simultaneously indeed, but then again I do not know how LP copies work
[22:56] <popey> right, filed a bug in landscape
[23:03] <AlanBell> that would be sub-optimal if all the landscape managed machines everywhere broke themselves tomorrow
[23:03] <AlanBell> I know the point is you can choose to do test deployments to different groups of machines etc
[23:05] <Laney> how is it landscape's fault?
[23:06] <Laney> i saw a dist-upgrade paste that showed unupgradables
[23:06] <popey> it wasnt distupgrade
[23:07] <popey> i did the upgrade via landscape
[23:07] <Laney> http://paste.ubuntu.com/741324/ ?
[23:07] <popey> thats after the breakage happened
[23:07] <popey> illustrating the breakage
[23:08] <popey> thunderbird in 'still not got the right number of mails on my launcher' shocker
[23:08] <Laney> aha
[23:08] <Laney> so landscape upgraded the i386 package somehow
[23:08] <Laney> without the native one
[23:09] <popey> other way round
[23:09] <popey> or not, i dunno, too tired now ☺
[23:09] <Laney> no, you iz rite
[23:09]  * Laney eats more soup
[23:10] <popey> mmm soup
[23:10] <popey> looking forward to mushroom soup tomorrow
[23:10] <popey> and will add extra mushrooms
[23:10]  * AlanBell appears to have 5 perpetual licenses for landscape
[23:10] <Laney> tomorrow i have to skive off work in the morning to buy my mother's birthday presents
[23:11] <Laney> and then speedbake a cake before leaving for a weekend canoeing
[23:11] <Laney> :-)
[23:12] <popey> i have to take sam shopping at the weekend
[23:12] <popey> i need a shoe box (not shoes) and some things to put in for some child somwhere else in the world
[23:13] <popey> i think we have a very prescribed set of things to put in it like pens, notepad, toothbrush.
[23:16] <Laney> those are a nice idea, we did them back when i was a cub leader
[23:17] <Laney> was a bit hard to find a non-religious charity to go through iirc
[23:17] <popey> i cant recall the charity we're going through
[23:18] <popey> its via the school so no idea
[23:18] <popey> oh, hang on, leaflet
[23:18] <Laney> a lot of them liked to insert bibles into your boxes
[23:19] <popey> oh really?
[23:19] <popey> I did not know that
[23:19] <popey> I will be enquiring
[23:19] <popey> thanks!
[23:19] <Laney> depends on the charity, and this was a few years ago
[23:19] <popey> I can believe it
[23:20] <Daviey> popey: You are buying a new pair of shoes, purely for the shoe box? :)
[23:21] <Daviey> popey: pro tip, use a shoe box for a baby pair of shoes. Cheaper to fill.
[23:21] <popey> Daviey: i dont buy shoes that are so expensive that they have a box ☺
[23:22] <popey> mine usually dont even come with a bag
[23:22] <popey> I have to rip them off the tramps feet
[23:22] <popey> ..without waking him
[23:26] <Laney> i have stupidly small feet, so filling my shoe boxes wouldn't be a problem
[23:26] <Laney> size 6
[23:26] <funkyHat> Laney: good if you like wearing heels though
[23:26] <popey> joy
[23:27] <Laney> good for me climbing actually
[23:28] <Daviey> Laney: wow, you DO have small feet.
[23:28] <Daviey> Laney: Can you claim a blue badge?
[23:28] <Laney> i have been known to topple over in a stiff breeze
[23:29] <Azelphur> I am having ridiculous amounts of fun with Drupal \o/
[23:29] <Azelphur> I made a module that utilises GameQ and APC for caching, I can just write "[server tf2 surf.tf2.azelphur.com numplayers]" and it replaces it with a live player count from my server \o/
[23:29] <ali1234> the drupal logo represents the tears of people who try to use it
[23:30] <buzz_> i like drupal.
[23:30] <Azelphur> your just mad I am getting good results :D
[23:30] <Azelphur> I like drupal too
[23:30] <buzz_> always worked for me
[23:30] <buzz_> only build a few sites on it. not used v7 yet.
[23:30] <Azelphur> I've got really awesome stuff working :D
[23:30] <Azelphur> using v7 here
[23:30] <buzz_> im going to do my personal blog stuff in d7 most liekly
[23:31] <ali1234> i have to rebuild my whole site every time i update it
[23:31] <Azelphur> buzz_: I'm making an entire network of sites on d7 :D
[23:31] <buzz_> nice
[23:31] <ali1234> because it forgets all the menus
[23:31] <ali1234> because the menu is a plugin like everything else in drupal
[23:31] <Azelphur> o.O
[23:33] <Azelphur> ali1234: I have a clever set up using a module that hides content based on what site your on, so technically there's only one site, but it changes "mode" depending on which domain your accessing it with
[23:33] <funkyHat> I kind of like drupal, but for anything more involved than a basic CMS/blog I end up spending more time clicking stuff than I would writing the site from scratch in rails
[23:33] <Azelphur> different themes, different content, but I can create any type of content and post it to any combination of the sites :D
[23:33] <funkyHat> Theming it is really nice though
[23:33] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:34] <funkyHat> Azelphur: I use drupal's multisite features... a weird split site like you're describing wouldn't really work for the sites I host
[23:34] <Azelphur> funkyHat: why not? :)
[23:35] <Azelphur> multisite is better if you have totally 100% separate sites that are nothing to do with eachother
[23:35] <funkyHat> Azelphur: that is why ;)
[23:35] <Azelphur> but for a network of connected sites, content access rules
[23:35] <Azelphur> haha, :)
[23:35] <Azelphur> domain access rather :P
[23:38] <funkyHat> That does sound like it could be useful, is the module on drupal.org?
[23:38] <Azelphur> funkyHat: yea, http://drupal.org/project/domain
[23:39] <Azelphur> funkyHat: I asked in the drupal channel about what I could do regarding shared user database and global (and nonglobal) forums, domain access does it no problem
[23:40] <funkyHat> Azelphur: does it do single sign-on too? That would be nice
[23:40] <Azelphur> funkyHat: there is only one site, so yes.
[23:41] <Azelphur> funkyHat: what it does is it detects what site your on, and overrides the content access permissions on practically everything so it can be shown or not shown on a per site basis
[23:41] <funkyHat> Azelphur: well it would depend how it managed the cookies, but cool that it works
[23:41] <Azelphur> yea, I've noticed the cookies are an issue
[23:41] <Azelphur> you have one user and pass, but have to login to all 3 sites
[23:41] <Azelphur> havn't worked around that yet
[23:42] <funkyHat> That's what I meant by single sign on ⢁þ
[23:42] <funkyHat> OpenID could possibly be a sort-of solution
[23:43] <Azelphur> hehe I plan to allow openid sign on anyway
[23:44] <funkyHat> Speaking of which I need to fix my OpenID provider