[09:48] <AlecTaylor> hi
[09:48] <AlecTaylor> I am trying to model a collection of systems, their various interconnections, as well as their internal logical structures, as a message is passed through them, initiated by an actor. Is BPMN the right notation, and am I using it right? - http://i.stack.imgur.com/r9741.png
[09:51] <PWF> hi
[09:53] <AlecTaylor> yo
[10:00] <PWF> sorry, my english bad... how i can update my app after approved in ubunt store and start sales if  i make new version this programm.. it can be a problem or no? i can just upload new version in my account and users update it from "upt-get update?" to confirm the new version also need to wait for a decision like first time?
[10:06] <noodles775> PWF: Yes, if you upload a new version to the store, you will then need to wait (hopefully not long) for the new version to be approved like the first time (but faster) :-)
[10:08] <noodles775> AlecTaylor: hi, sorry, I've not read up on Business Process Modeling Notation.
[10:09] <noodles775> but it doesn't *sound* like a business process that you're describing.
[10:10] <AlecTaylor> :S
[10:26] <AlecTaylor> In the bottom swimlane, how do I make a connection to a Task? - http://i.stack.imgur.com/r9741.png (BPMN2) - Giving me error: ""ONLY Message Intermediate Event MAY have one incoming or outgoing Message Flow!"
[10:27] <PWF> noodles775: thnx ! can you know approximately how many now have to wait for the approved? week or two, more? if application dont big..
[10:27] <PWF> in first time..
[10:31] <noodles775> PWF: for commercial apps it should be less than a week (assuming the app works :-)) Soon there will be an email each week to the appdeveloper list with average wait times etc.
[10:38] <PWF> noodles775: thanks for answering me. I also named Michael) Can I ask questions here on gtk?
[10:42] <noodles775> PWF: No problem. And yes you can ask gtk questions here, I don't have much gtk experience, but other people here do (and they can tell us if there is a better channel for gtk questions)
[10:43] <PWF> By the way, why paypal only I live in a country that is not shaping can accept payment paypal ... philosophy of ubuntu - a Linux for Human Beings. I would like other options, such as right to visa classic
[10:51] <noodles775> PWF: +1 to more payment options. I believe people are working hard to make that happen.
[10:54] <PWF> GTK: I want Add to my app settings the opportunity to do a little transparent main window over "set_opacity" (it fits the concept of my app). But the unity 2D does not support transparency (and shadow), although it supports the alpha channel .. Therefore, this option should be smart and optional. How do I know which user is using Unity 2D, I would like to use the techniques: "is_composited" but Unity and Unity 2D return "True"
[11:12] <jml> virtualenv question: how do I depend on a package that I am developing locally?
[11:12] <jml> say I don't want to release it to pypi yet
[11:17] <noodles775> jml: like this? https://code.launchpad.net/~michael.nelson/ubuntu-webcatalog/rnrclient_requirement/+merge/82551
[11:17] <noodles775> ie. you can include a link to an LP download from your setup.py
[11:17] <noodles775> Or is your situation different?
[11:18] <noodles775> You can also do teh same thing from your requirements.txt which is pip-installed.
[11:19] <jml> noodles775: that would work, yes. well, if I can give it file:// URLs.
[11:20] <noodles775> jml: if it's something local to your branch, I don't understand why it's not on the python path?
[11:20] <jml> noodles775: it's a dependency
[11:20] <jml> noodles775: pkgme-service needs pkgme-binary. pkgme-binary is not yet released.
[11:21] <jml> (although I might do it now just to make running 'bootstrap' easier)
[11:21] <noodles775> jml: but you pull in pkgme-binary somehow so that it's local as part of your build process?
[11:22] <jml> noodles775: well yes, that's what I'm aiming to do.
[11:23] <noodles775> Right, so I would either depend on it from the setup.py (as above link, pulling directly from an upload on your LP project), or in your requirements.txt (which can also handle bzr branches, I think)
[11:23]  * noodles775 checks
[11:24] <noodles775> jml: line 65 of this different MP: https://code.launchpad.net/~michael.nelson/ubuntu-webcatalog/update-requirements/+merge/82522
[11:24] <jml> noodles775: sure, but it would be nicer to not have to upload to a public place before working on it
[11:24] <noodles775> shows a requirement being pulled in via a bzr branch from the requirements.txt file (I removed it to make it a setup.py dependency instead)
[11:25] <noodles775> jml: you don't - if you've got a public branch you can do the latter.
[11:25] <jml> incidentally, I tried to do some offline work on this the other day and got stymied by the fact that I couldn't make a virtualenv
[11:25] <jml> noodles775: ok
[11:25] <jml> noodles775: but I'd have to push and then re-download to use updated versions still?
[11:26] <noodles775> jml: no, you can just pip install your local version whenever you want.
[11:27]  * noodles775 guesses he's not understanding the complete picture. Sounds like you're developing both packages simultaneously?
[11:27] <jml> yes.
[11:29] <noodles775> jml: in which case, wouldn't a requirement on the branch be perfect? (you just need to push your changes, and everyone else's bootstrap'd env will get the right thing)?
[11:30] <noodles775> and you don't need to push your changes to update locally, as you can just pip install any changes to pkgme_binary whenever you like.
[11:30] <jml> noodles775: I guess. There isn't anybody else contributing directly at this point, and I'd like to avoid an extra step each time I make a change in pkgme-binary that I want to affect pkgme-service.
[11:30] <jml> But maybe virtualenv is all about preventing that.
[11:31]  * noodles775 still doesn't see any extra step needed. eg
[11:32] <noodles775> 1) you make a change to pkgme-binary, so you then pip install it again (using virtualenv/bin/pip), and pkgme-service wins
[11:32] <jml> With a PYTHONPATH set up you don't have to do that.
[11:32] <noodles775> 2) when you're at a point where your branch is ready for review, so someone else will need to bootstrap too, you commit your pkgme-binary changes (if you haven't already), and just bzr push.
[11:32] <jml> The pip install
[11:33] <jml> but whatever. I'm clearly 1990s Python guy.
[11:33] <noodles775> You can't do (2) with a pythonpath though can you? (I mean, you've got to ensure that other people get the same setup)
[11:35] <jml> I don't care about other people right now :)
[11:35] <noodles775> And if you want to avoid the pip install as you'll be doing *lots* of changes, why not just add it to your pythonpath manually while you work on the branch.
[11:35] <noodles775> jml: ah, you're not having reviews? :P
[11:35] <noodles775> (or you're not writing tests? *that* I don't believe ;))
[11:38] <jml> I didn't know 'PYTHONPATH=foo fab test' would work. Seems to defeat the point of virtualenv somewhat.
[11:40]  * noodles775 doesn't see how that would help someone else replicate your development environment, which I thought was the point of virtualenv.
[11:41] <noodles775> It would just be saving you from updating your environment until your branch was ready for review.
[15:49] <jml> james_w: hi
[15:49] <james_w> hi jml
[15:49] <james_w> how's it going?
[15:50] <jml> james_w: alright. you?
[15:50] <james_w> good thanks
[15:50] <jml> james_w: I landed the pkgme-binary change, contrary to what I said I'd do. The conflict is now yours to deal with
[15:51] <james_w> no problem
[15:52] <jml> james_w: I'm going through my @waiting emails, and I notice one from you about us getting a second RT queue. Do you know if that's happened yet?
[15:53] <james_w> jml, doesn't look like it
[15:53] <james_w> davidpitkin told me he was told it would be done this week
[15:54] <jml> james_w: this week lies expiring on the bed of ages.
[15:54] <james_w> indeed
[15:59] <jo-erlend> what is it you need to do in order to use the dark toolbar color stuff in toolbars and other things?
[16:05] <jml> james_w: also, you should work w/ mpt and make a gui for notmuch.
[16:06] <james_w> maybe
[16:07] <mpt> heh
[16:57] <jml> noodles775: sorry, I don't see from those diffs that you linked to how to specify a branch as a dependency link in a setup.py file.
[17:14] <jml> noodles775: never mind.
[17:16] <noodles775> jml: you got it sorted? (yes, you can do a branch from a requirements, or a tar.gz download from the setup.py afaik)
[17:16] <jml> noodles775: you can do a branch from setup.py, I think
[17:17] <jml> I can't verify, because pypi is having network issues so I can't download coverage (again) so I can't get that far in the build process.
[17:17] <noodles775> Cool - I hadn't seen that before.
[17:18]  * jml would really like to have an offline set up for this.
[17:19] <noodles775> jml: you can - I think I pasted you alink teh other day? (about using one pre-built lightweight checkout?)
[17:19]  * noodles775 finds link in case.
[17:19] <jml> noodles775: yeah, you posted the link
[17:20] <noodles775> But right, if you need to bootstrap again you're stuffed (even if you have an egg cache, pip seems to still check the network... I didn't look closely though)
[17:20] <jml> noodles775: which is essentially, "have a virtualenv that you very carefully keep around, right?"
[17:21] <jml> yeah, I have PIP_DOWNLOAD_CACHE set now, but it's failing. And sadly, I don't know if its because of the cache, because of my recent dependency_links changes or because of the network.
[17:21] <jml> isolation time again.
[17:21] <jml> (umm... move the end-quote to before the comma)
[17:22] <jml> yay it used the cache. that must mean either an intermittent network thing or a dependency_links error.
[17:22] <noodles775> jml: I'm not so careful about it - I run `fab bootstrap` whenever reviewing a branch or before submitting a review (if it's touched any dependencies etc.), but otherwise, yes there's no need to touch it.
[17:22] <noodles775> Great!
[17:23] <jml> noodles775: I guess you need to be careful that you've run it before you go offline.
[17:24] <noodles775> Well, only if I branch a project for which I don't yet have an environment setup before I go offline (or one with new dependencies etc.).
[17:25]  * noodles775 joins the dinner table. Enjoy your weekends :)
[17:26] <jml> noodles775: thanks.
[18:05] <jml> g'night all
[18:05] <jml> great weekend etc
[18:13] <james_w> night jml, you too
[19:00]  * wendar starts up an ARB review shift (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/ReviewShifts)
[19:46] <james_w> hi wendar
[19:46] <wendar> james_w: hi
[19:50] <zoopster> hi wendar question for you
[19:51] <wendar> hi zoopster
[19:51] <zoopster> had someone hit me up about helping with packaging
[19:51] <wendar> help with packaging would be great
[19:51] <zoopster> is the arb interested in community help with packaging? how can they go about contributing in this space
[19:52] <zoopster> didn't exactly find a specific pointer to looking into and contributing in that space if you can point me somewhere I'll pass it along
[19:53] <wendar> yes, we're definitely interested in community help
[19:54] <wendar> we haven't created a launchpad team for it yet, but if we get at least two contributors we'll create it
[19:55] <zoopster> in the meantime who can he reach out to for the offering of assistance - anyone on the ARB specifically or just pick one?
[19:55]  * JackyAlcine heard something about packaging.
[19:56] <wendar> we're in a weird state with tools right now, so the whole queue of pending apps isn't visible, but I can start now by handing you a tarball for one of the apps
[19:57] <zoopster> I'm trying to drag him in here...if I can get his attention soon I will do just that
[19:58] <wendar> any ARB member can help him get started
[19:58] <wendar> and, I'm happy to do it