[00:43] <The_Fred> hello
[00:43] <The_Fred> Whats the way to map function keys to a python or .sh script?
[02:55] <ball> In Britain, do people generally buy their own modems or are they provided by (rented from?) the ISP?
[02:57] <tugrik> usually provided by the ISP, although more technical users will tend to buy their own
[02:57] <Azelphur> ball: it's shifting more towards provided by the ISP
[02:58] <ball> Hmm... okay, thanks.
[03:03] <tugrik> why do you ask?
[03:04] <ball> tugrik: I'm writing an article on networking for small businesses and organisations and it's intended for a British audience.
[03:04] <ball> ...it's years since I lived there and I didn't know what the usual practice is now.
[03:20] <ball> Here's another example: Ethernet "holes" in the wall... are they sockets or jacks?
[03:21] <tugrik> "socket"
[03:21] <tugrik> although probably "port" is most common
[03:21] <tugrik> but I'm hoping your frame of reference is going to be more than some tired random who should have gone to bed by now ;)
[03:23] <ball> :-)
[03:23] <ball> Thanks
[07:38] <riaz23> hi greetings everyone
[07:39] <riaz23> i have a problem can anyone kindly help me
[07:43] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:59] <popey> morning
[08:05] <popey> AHA!
[08:05] <popey> indicator applet says I have 5 new mails
[08:05] <popey> its not updating, if i click a mail in indicator mail applet the number in thunderbird icon in launcher goes down
[08:13] <christel> good morning
[08:14]  * czajkowski tickles christel hello darling 
[08:14] <christel> heey beauty!
[08:14] <christel> how are you?
[08:15] <czajkowski> ntb, check up at the consultant today with my back. so will see
[08:15] <czajkowski> christel: hows you and your cute monkey doing ?
[08:18] <christel> very well!
[08:18] <christel> ooh good luck!
[08:19] <christel> the monky is rapidly becoming cheekier by the day :)
[08:21] <diplo> Morning all
[08:21] <czajkowski> has he learnt more words than No or is that still the fav ?
[08:26] <popey> BAH!
[08:26] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/742016/
[08:26] <hoover> morning all
[08:28] <popey> ali1234: / AlanBell my desktop is still broken
[08:28] <DJones> popey: Still no success with the updates then
[08:28] <ali1234> no problems here
[08:28] <ali1234> must be that landscape stuff?
[08:29] <diplo> Looks kinda broken
[08:30] <AlanBell> popey: on the plus side you will free up 648MB of disk space
[08:30] <AlanBell> hmm, it wants to remove ubuntu-desktop again :(
[08:31] <popey> thats me trying to install flash
[08:32] <AlanBell> does dpkg -l|grep libldap show matching versions now?
[08:32] <popey> ii  libldap-2.4-2                          2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1                     OpenLDAP libraries
[08:32] <popey> rc  libldap-2.4-2:i386                     2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4                       OpenLDAP libraries
[08:33] <AlanBell> what happens if you try to uninstall those?
[08:34] <popey> alan@wopr:~$ sudo apt-get update
[08:34] <popey> E: The method driver /usr/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found.
[08:34] <popey> uhm
[08:35]  * popey installs apt-transport-https
[08:36] <popey> aha!
[08:36] <popey> its updating now
[08:36] <popey> The following packages will be upgraded: libfreetype6 libfreetype6:i386 libfreetype6-dev python-cupshelpers system-config-printer-common system-config-printer-gnome system-config-printer-udev
[08:37] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/742030/
[08:37] <popey> better
[08:38] <AlanBell> and it looks like it wants to update libldap-2.4-2:i386
[08:39] <AlanBell> install rather, the rc means it was removed but may have config files remaining
[08:40] <AlanBell> after that runs you should have
[08:40] <AlanBell> ii  libldap-2.4-2:i386                        2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1                        OpenLDAP libraries
[08:41] <popey> ii  libldap-2.4-2                          2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1                     OpenLDAP libraries
[08:41] <popey> ii  libldap-2.4-2:i386                     2.4.25-1.1ubuntu4.1                     OpenLDAP libraries
[08:41] <popey> \o/
[08:41] <AlanBell> \o/
[09:03] <selinuxium> TFI!!!!!!   :)
[09:03] <daubers> o/
[09:05] <selinuxium> \o
[09:08] <popey>  _____     _     _             _
[09:08] <popey> |  ___| __(_) __| | __ _ _   _| |
[09:08] <popey> | |_ | '__| |/ _` |/ _` | | | | |
[09:08] <popey> |  _|| |  | | (_| | (_| | |_| |_|
[09:08] <popey> |_|  |_|  |_|\__,_|\__,_|\__, (_)
[09:08] <popey>                          |___/
[09:08] <DJones> Not just Friday, but CAR day as well
[09:09] <popey> CAR?
[09:10] <DJones> I'm, due to get my repaired car back this afternoon
[09:10] <popey> ah
[09:10] <popey> I haven't used my car for a few days
[09:11] <christel> czajkowski: atm the favourite word seems to be "more" :s
[09:11] <czajkowski> more hugs :)
[09:11] <christel> more tomatoes mainly
[09:11] <christel> he is mad about tomatoes bless him
[09:11] <DJones> popey: Lucky you, I've been relying on lifts for the last week
[09:12] <czajkowski> lovely red stained clothes eh :)
[09:12] <christel> oh yes!
[09:13] <DJones> Water pump failed, with the bearings collapsing, when that went it knocked the timing belt a couple of notches which knocked the valves & wrecked the cylinder head
[09:13] <christel> he also sneaks off and grabs a pack of cherry tomatos to eat when we walk through waitrose
[09:13] <DJones> Complete engine disembowelment
[09:13] <popey> ouch
[09:13] <popey> what car?
[09:13] <DJones> Picasso
[09:13] <christel> so i get to the checkout and the till person is all "oh this one seems broken, do you want me to get you a new one?" and i have to be all "sorry, no, that's my son the shoplifter"
[09:13] <popey> ooo, thats got to be a good grand or so?
[09:14] <DJones> £650
[09:14] <popey> oh thats not bad
[09:14] <popey> not great ☺
[09:14] <DJones> Sort of mates rates :)
[09:14] <popey> hah
[09:15] <DJones> I've got a mechanic lives over the road, he was going to do it, but was too much for him now he's semi-retired, so got one of his mates to do it
[09:16] <DJones> Still not good this close to Christmas though
[09:21] <jonsaint> hi all. does anyone know where i can get ubuntu screensavers on the net
[09:22] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[09:22]  * AlanBell observes a Chris Wollard on the dans le noir list
[09:22]  * bigcalm tickles christel as he hasn't seen her alive in here for a while
[09:22] <AlanBell> daubers: if you and bruno confirm I will need to get an extra place
[09:24] <bigcalm> I'm worried about updating any of my machines due to popey's troubles with libldap. What to do?
[09:24] <popey> you wont have that problem
[09:24] <bigcalm> How come?
[09:24] <christel> AlanBell: ooh how many are we now?
[09:24] <christel> heya bigcalm :)
[09:24] <jonsaint> anyone know where i can get ubuntu screensavers from online?
[09:24] <popey> because I updated via landscape which doesn't support multiarch
[09:24] <bigcalm> AHA!
[09:26] <nigelb> heh, fun.
[09:26] <j0nr> morning
[09:27] <j0nr> I have a quick question about Maildir... can I simply 'mv' mailboxes inside other to 'nest' them?
[09:27] <bigcalm> I guess I should sort out my train tickets for the 9th/10th then!
[09:27] <danfish> lo
[09:28] <gordonjcp> is it safe to update libldap on 32-bit?
[09:32] <DJones> gordonjcp: Sounds like it, from what popey said earlier, it an issue with using landscape to update because it doesn't multi-arch
[09:32] <popey> yes
[09:32] <popey> you almost certainly wont hit the issue I did
[09:34] <BigRedS> just don't use ldap
[09:34] <bigcalm> BigRedS: I didn't think I used ldap, but it appears to be installed on every machine I have
[09:35] <bigcalm> Well, the lib anyway
[09:37] <bigcalm> A return will cost me 207 quid. 2 singles about 73 quid
[09:38] <bigcalm> That's the cost of using the train on 2 different days
[09:39] <dogmatic69> bigcalm: where you off to?
[09:39] <JamesTait> Good morning all! youtu.be/mGgMZpGYiy8
[09:39] <bigcalm> dogmatic69: the xmas meal
[09:40] <dogmatic69> seems very pricey for the train
[09:40] <dogmatic69> bham to london is £5
[09:41] <popey> bigcalm: cheaper to drive innit?
[09:43]  * BigRedS just claimed expenses for £55.26 worth of coffee
[09:44] <mattt> morning
[09:44] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: nice
[09:46] <gordonjcp> I really miss alt-f2
[09:47] <gordonjcp> I think that's the thing that does my head in most about unity
[09:47] <BigRedS> it sort-of works in unity
[09:47] <gordonjcp> BigRedS: well yeah
[09:48] <AlanBell> just different
[09:48] <gordonjcp> you press alt-f2 and it pops up a text entry
[09:48] <gordonjcp> but it doesn't do anything
[09:48] <BigRedS> that's all it ever did
[09:48] <gordonjcp> you can type whatever you like in there, it won't actually start any programs
[09:48] <BigRedS> oh, yeah
[09:48] <AlanBell> works for me
[09:49] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: it works maybe once in ten goes for me
[09:49] <gordonjcp> if I type really slowly
[09:49] <BigRedS> bug 788350 ?
[09:49] <lubotu3`> Launchpad bug 788350 in unity-place-applications (Ubuntu) "alt+f2 implies it can run utter nonsense" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/788350
[09:49] <gordonjcp> and give it two or three minutes before I hit return
[09:49] <AlanBell> not reproduced
[09:50] <BigRedS> ooh. maybe it's fixed. I stopped checking a little while ago
[09:50] <BigRedS> heh. maybe even before release
[09:50] <bigcalm> popey: I shall investigate
[09:51] <bigcalm> From google maps: Est. fuel cost: 33.24 quid
[09:51] <bigcalm> Car it is then
[09:52] <bigcalm> (one way)
[10:18] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:18] <bigcalm> Ahoy
[10:18] <brobostigon> morning bigcalm
[10:30] <Laney> good lord
[10:30] <Laney> TLPI is absolutely massive
[10:53] <smittix> Morning all
[10:53] <davmor2> morning all
[10:53] <smittix> heh
[10:55] <Laney> 1445 pages!
[11:09]  * bigcalm ponders transfering 1024 quid into a savings account just to be geeky
[11:10] <bigcalm> Sadly, nobody will get the geekyness and with interest, it'll become non-geeky later
[11:12] <AlanBell> you can divide 70 by the interest rate to find the number of years it will take to become £2048
[11:13] <bigcalm> About 23 years
[11:15] <popey> That zoostorm core i7 'cheap' pc I bought two months ago. emailed their tech support and an engineer will be here on tuesday. not bad for a pc bought off ebuyer
[11:19] <gord> nothing but nice things to say about stuff bought off ebuyer
[11:22] <gordonjcp> is there a way to disable apps running full-screen?
[11:22] <gordonjcp> particularly blunderbird, which always seems to start full-screen no matter what
[11:25]  * smittix is a happy bunny today
[11:25] <AlanBell> gordonjcp: F11 sometimes flips
[11:25] <smittix> https://plus.google.com/111668224774411825334/posts
[11:32] <gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah, sorry, not fullscreen but maximised
[11:32] <popey> blank page smittix
[11:33] <popey> oh, your posts aren't public
[11:33] <bigcalm> I cannie read that hand writing
[11:35] <gord> its easy! "Fa: James smith - I hope you angry my clang lets stag. I wish you the let in your adamfdn. All my hat, Heru Milnul 11/15/11"
[11:37] <bigcalm> :D
[11:40] <popey> Ooo, it's LOUD O'CLOCK again!
[11:41] <daubers> popey: Turning it up to 11?
[11:41] <popey> YES
[11:41] <gord> my volume only goes to 10 =\
[11:42] <gord> but new mario arrived on my doorstep so i can be loud in celebration
[11:42] <bigcalm> gord: use the iPlay, it goes to 11
[11:43] <bigcalm> iPlayer
[11:43] <Myrtti> hohum.
[11:43] <popey> having a monitor that has DVI VGA and HDMI is a GOOD THING
[11:43] <popey> [FACT]
[11:43] <bigcalm> popey: multiple signals?
[11:43] <popey> yesh, no idea how to switch tho
[11:44] <popey> ooo, touch controls
[11:44] <popey> I love this screen
[11:44] <Myrtti> time to call Dell and ask for an EFI reset key or whatever it is called
[11:44] <bigcalm> No menu controls on the screen edge?
[11:44] <bigcalm> There you go :)
[11:44] <popey> Philips 234EL
[11:44] <smittix> popey: Sorry better off here then https://twitter.com/smittytech/#/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FEt8N0SMH
[11:45] <daubers> Myrtti: New laptop?
[11:45] <bigcalm> My choice of album for the last 2 days: http://open.spotify.com/user/bigcalm/playlist/0GmiEYBq4vMumYIGeEkiN7
[11:45] <bigcalm> I would 'crank it up', but Hayley has the day off and is still reading in bed
[11:46] <smittix> heh gord
[11:46] <bigcalm> I'm a good boy and wearing headphones
[11:47]  * AlanBell dispatches some CDs to Belfast
[11:50] <Myrtti> daubers: no, need to nuke my old and I've forgotten the admin password
[11:50] <Myrtti> in related news: any Linux-y job openings in Cambridgeshire?
[11:51] <Myrtti> I have and will look at jobsites but social networks work the best so asking here too :-P
[11:51] <gord> Myrtti, always jobs going at canonical, not local to anywhere
[11:52] <Myrtti> gord: I know, my application is in :-/
[11:52] <popey> smittix: nice!
[11:53] <gord> our HR department is always backlogged too ;)
[11:53] <davmor2> gord, bigcalm: did you get home okay
[11:53] <gord> davmor2, yes mum
[11:54] <davmor2> gord: more important did it make a change :)
[11:55] <gord> yeah was nice, would be nicer to find somewhere that's open to 6 though :)
[11:56] <Myrtti> gord: you can always prod them for me
[11:56] <Myrtti> whoa.
[11:56] <Myrtti> I just did what I've not done... pretty much ever
[11:56] <Myrtti> pressed the upgrade to newer ubuntu button in Update Manager.
[11:56] <Myrtti> exciting
[12:00] <davmor2> gord: indeed but I don't think there are that many places that offer the feature free
[12:01] <bigcalm> davmor2: eventually. Train was packed despite it being 5 coaches long
[12:01] <davmor2> bigcalm: nice
[12:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: unlikely to attend next month sorry. Will be available for January's gathering though
[12:02] <oimon> CUPS arggghh.
[12:03] <oimon> that is all
[12:03] <davmor2> bigcalm: shame on you ;)
[12:05] <bigcalm> davmor2: I have that week as holiday and will be attending an xmas meal in the evening. Timings are a little squiffy :S
[12:06] <bigcalm> Though I can't get too squiffy that evening as I then have to drive dan-saff for the ubuntu-uk xmas meal the next day
[12:09] <shauno> If there's a prize for badly naming machines, I think I just founda  very strong contender
[12:10] <shauno> we're being asked to update our JRE packages, and they've given us a url to get the corp image from.  it's hosted on http://trojan.$corp.com/
[12:10]  * oimon LOLs
[12:10] <bigcalm> Oh dear
[12:10] <shauno> I wish I was kidding
[12:11] <TREllis> 30
[12:11] <TREllis> :)
[12:11] <oimon> that's like downloading antivirus from herpes.domain
[12:12] <shauno> especially since it's been done by mailshot instead of wsus.  so random out-of-the-blue emails asking us to click the big 'trojan' button.
[12:12] <oimon> can you change your steam account login name? i am stuck with a lame one that somebody else chose for me
[12:13] <bigcalm> Would somebody mind trying out a walk-though I just jotted down?
[12:13] <bigcalm> http://www.myrant.net/2011/11/18/google-calendar-in-mozilla-thunderbird-on-ubuntu-11-10/
[12:13] <gord> oimon, nope
[12:13] <Myrtti> uhhuh
[12:13] <oimon> :(
[12:13] <oimon> i bought HL2 a few years back and the guy gave me his steam login too
[12:13] <Myrtti> pressing the Super-key in the middle of upgrading from 11.04 to11.10 wasn't a great idea
[12:14] <oimon> "ninjadeath", makes me sound like a 16yr old
[12:15] <oimon> better than goatse or worse i guess
[12:17] <Myrtti> that was painful
[12:21] <smittix> heh has anyone seen the google robo-car? http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81755975/
[12:22] <oimon> hmm i've played 42 mins of portal. i guess that means i didn't really like it
[12:23] <bigcalm> 1 or 2?
[12:23] <oimon> 1
[12:23] <oimon> got it free
[12:23] <bigcalm> :(
[12:23] <bigcalm> There's more of a story in 2
[12:24] <oimon> in a previous life i would have played it a lot more i guess
[12:24] <oimon> now i get the chance to play PES on the WII for 20 minute snippets
[12:24] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: works right up to the point where it asks me for a password, then I have no idea what to use
[12:25] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: my gmail username and password that I used to log into the google calendar page don't work
[12:25] <bigcalm> gordonjcp: oh :(
[12:26] <bigcalm> I set this with my google apps account
[12:26] <bigcalm> gordonjcp: thank you for testing it for me though :)
[12:30] <gordonjcp> bigcalm: my mistake, http vs. https
[12:30] <gordonjcp> it works fine
[12:30] <bigcalm> \o/
[12:31] <gordonjcp> in "Calendar Settings" you need to click on the name of the calendar to get the details page up
[12:32] <bigcalm> You do?
[12:33] <bigcalm> I only have one calendar on this particular account and it shows the Calendar ID at the bottom of the page upon clicking Calendar Settings
[12:34] <bigcalm> Humm
[12:35] <bigcalm> Feel free to leave comments on the blog post :)
[12:43] <Myrtti> I need more nifty stickers
[12:43] <Myrtti> just pulled my MeeGo and Nomovok stickers from my old laptop
[13:08] <Twinkletoes> .
[13:10] <gordonjcp> Myrtti: end of an era...
[13:11] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Google calendar in Mozilla Thunderbird on Ubuntu 11.10 - http://www.myrant.net/2011/11/18/google-calendar-in-mozilla-thunderbird-on-ubuntu-11-10/
[13:12] <bigcalm> Gah, that confused me for a moment. Keep forgetting that I'm on there :)
[13:16] <gordonjcp> argh
[13:16] <gordonjcp> bloody maximised windows
[13:16] <gordonjcp> why has 11.10 shipped with so many weird bugs like that?
[13:24] <Myrtti> gordonjcp: indeed
[13:29] <hoover> cheers all
[13:31] <daubers> Hmmm.. just had captain obvious and captain can't be bothered looking at the damp issues in the flat
[13:33] <davmor2> daubers: let me guess, "oh, that's damp", "oh, well it's not my flat I don't care" :)
[13:34] <daubers> Cpt Obvious -> "There's a lot more humidity at the back of the building" me-> "Yes, that's what I've been telling you for the past few weeks from my sensor readings" captain can't be bothered -> "Well you must be causing it, I don't see why I should do anything about it"
[13:34] <daubers> Turns out the people who moved out from down stairs are suing over damage caused by the damp issues \o/
[13:35] <davmor2> daubers: nice
[13:35] <daubers> landlord still doesn't think there's an issue
[13:55] <czajkowski> jpds: ping
[13:55] <DJones> Thought for the day "Whatever you do today, do it 100%, unless you're giving blood"
[13:55] <gordonjcp> :-D
[14:08] <dwatkins> in which case, give it 110%?
[14:10] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod hello
[14:11]  * AlanBell will have to get another place booked http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/1409/detail/
[14:15] <JGJones> Hey all -
[14:16] <JGJones> Been trying to figure out how to sort out my wireless on the Dell laptop...it comes with an Intel 4965agn (open source driver) but since moving to 11.10 - it's pathetically slow - 1Mbs or less.
[14:17] <JGJones> However got a Sony laptop with the same wireless model and it's faster (but still not very fast but at least it's faster than the broadband)
[14:23] <awilkins> Grarrrrgh
[14:24] <daubers> AlanBell: Don't book another seat! Someone can have my 2. House buying process has been accelerated, hence no money now
[14:24]  * daubers changes his status on the thing if launchpad will let him in
[14:36] <AlanBell> ok, good news on the house, not so great news on the meal :(
[14:36] <AlanBell> it should let you change the status to not attending
[14:37] <daubers> AlanBell: Have done now
[14:37] <AlanBell> great
[14:37] <daubers> AlanBell: I'll try and make the london happy hour instead
[14:59] <awilkins> I just love it when the risk register includes "Have lost 50% of development team".
[15:00] <DJones> There is a converse to that, 50% of the Dev team have left, so the remaining 50% have been able to fix what the others left broken
[15:02] <awilkins> Alas, the guys who write the dreadful code don't work for us.. and 50% of our dev team is 2 people. They left mostly because of the dreadful code, methinks.
[15:03] <awilkins> Ah well, the nervous breakdown will be relaxing.
[15:03]  * awilkins wubbles a bit
[15:11]  * daubers remembers the days when if 50% of the dev team had left, he'd have wondered who had sawn off his legs
[15:14] <bigcalm> o.O
[15:16] <gord> anyone happen to know if i can get nautilus to just give me a listview all the time?
[15:16] <gord> fed up of this icon view
[15:17] <jpds> gord: Edit → Preferences → List View ?
[15:17] <gord> jpds, right that does it for that folder, but not everything
[15:17] <gord> its like being back on windows
[15:18] <popey> CTRL+2 is a handy shortcut
[15:18] <daubers> is it not a gconf thing?
[15:18] <gord> gsettings now, but I've no idea
[15:19] <daubers> Seems to be somewhere http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnome.svn/339471
[15:20] <gord> nevermind found something in the preferences :) didn't even know nautilus had preferences
[15:27] <awilkins> Windows has that preference too. I can't understand people who use icon view
[15:27] <awilkins> Or people who don't immediately turn off "hide known file extensions"
[15:28] <davmor2> gord: that's cause you just ain't 1337 enough to love it ;)
[15:28] <jpds> gord: That's what I said?
[15:29] <gord> jpds, yeah, but i thought you meant the menu option
[16:08] <Adriannom> if i build a new machine, can i put a hd with an existing ubuntu install in it?
[16:09] <mgdm> Adriannom: Generally I've got away with that
[16:09] <oimon> me too
[16:09] <DJones> You can do, I've swapped hdd's between two machines of exactly the same model/hardware without issue
[16:09] <bigcalm> Unless you are putting a 64bit install into a 32bit machine, should work
[16:10] <Adriannom> it's 64bit to 64bit, but totally different hardware
[16:10] <oimon> i moved an XP install from an intel machine to amd yesterday. hoop jumping was required
[16:10] <Adriannom> and both amd
[16:10] <bigcalm> Should be ok
[16:11] <bigcalm> Try it :)
[16:11] <oimon> Adriannom: what graphics cards do they hav
[16:11] <Adriannom> i already did try it, got errors... just wanted to know what the likely scenario was
[16:11] <oimon> what was teh error?
[16:11] <Adriannom> gave up waiting for root device
[16:12] <oimon> sata disk?
[16:12] <Adriannom> then puts me in an initramfs prompt
[16:12] <Adriannom> yup, sdd
[16:12] <oimon> check the bios settings also
[16:12] <Adriannom> yeah good point :)
[16:15] <Adriannom> an animated bios ;o
[16:16] <Adriannom> just what i needed
[16:22] <diplo> Guys quick general question, if you are running squid in transparent mode, and stop the service squid should all requests go through normally ?
[16:22] <Adriannom> maybe the sata cable is faulty..
[16:22] <diplo> I can't think straight at this time of day after a big meal at lunch time
[16:22] <diplo> :P
[16:22] <mgdm> diplo: No
[16:22] <diplo> So what other issues might occur mgdm ?
[16:22] <mgdm> diplo: if you kill Squid you kill all web access
[16:23] <diplo> So if the route to the internet is via 192.168.1.1 on the PC's we just need to redirect traffic out
[16:23] <mgdm> you need to undo whatever's making it run in transparent mode
[16:23] <mgdm> be it iptables or whatever
[16:24] <diplo> heh just did a iptables -L
[16:24] <diplo> Working though it now
[16:25] <Adriannom> argh
[16:25] <Adriannom> mobo doesn't support ahci
[16:29] <Adriannom> does that matter?  i don't even know what ahci is for ;)
[16:31] <KrisDouglas> Adriannom, AHCI is a type of interface used for more modern drives
[16:32] <Adriannom> will my ssd suffer if my mobo doesn't support it?
[16:32] <KrisDouglas> I wouldn't have thought so, so long as your OS supports trim and your board is at least 3Gb/s
[16:33] <Adriannom> ok cool
[16:33] <KrisDouglas> Once loaded into Ubuntu I think there is something you have to add to your File System Table to enable TRIM
[16:34] <Adriannom> yeah i'll read up on trim
[16:34] <popey> discard
[16:34] <popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/18903/how-to-enable-trim
[16:34] <KrisDouglas> yeah discard, thanks popey. Couldn't find the article on the drive in my server.
[16:35] <Adriannom> thanks
[16:36] <Adriannom> "gave up waiting for root device" doesn't go away when i type "exit" like google suggests
[16:36] <Adriannom> so, hmph
[16:43] <Adriannom> nah this is pointless, i guess i'd better do a clean install
[16:43] <Adriannom> thanks for helping guys
[16:46] <denny> heyla
[16:47] <denny> you know you're meant to be able to drag windows between workspaces on the workspace switcher in gnome classic?  I can't do that.  Could on first boot (just reinstalling due to a disk failure), but couldn't on second.  Any idea what might be causing that?
[16:47] <denny> I also can't drag windows into a new order on the window list applet on the panel
[16:47] <Adriannom> i've had that stop working randomly too
[16:48] <denny> ...
[16:48] <denny> and I just tried to drag my panel and it's vanished, heh
[16:49]  * denny looks bewildered
[16:49] <denny> how am I supposed to get that back now?  :)
[16:50]  * denny runs gnome-panel in a terminal, panel reappears
[16:50] <denny> cute
[16:51] <denny> on the wrong screen
[16:51] <denny> cute  :)
[16:52]  * denny makes a new panel on the centre monitor, drags everything onto it bit by bit
[16:52] <Azelphur> Fun javascript/CSS question. I have a mibbit widget on my site and would like to create a full screen button. So I want the iframe to go full browser size, but not reload the iframe. Is it possible?
[16:53] <denny> try asking in #web maybe
[16:53] <Azelphur> will do :D
[17:00] <bigcalm> Using jQuery you could use something like: $('#iframeID').width($(window).width());$('#iframeID').height($(window).height());
[17:00] <Azelphur> bigcalm: yea I've been trying to do something similar to that but it ends up being constrained to the content area on my website
[17:00] <Azelphur> rather than actually full screen
[17:01] <bigcalm> Azelphur: is the web browser full screen?
[17:02] <Azelphur> bigcalm: don't see the relevence but no :p
[17:02]  * bigcalm lets you ask elsewhere then
[17:02] <Azelphur> the browser window size isn't relevant surely, I only want to go full screen relative to the browser
[17:03] <Azelphur> just using the full size of the browser window
[17:04] <Adriannom> Azelphur, won't height: 100%; work?  you'll need every parent container, including body, to have height: 100%; too
[17:04] <mgdm> Azelphur: you might need to absolute position it
[17:05] <Azelphur> Adriannom: ah that's a good idea, looping through all the divs in the page and 100%ing them
[17:05] <mgdm> Azelphur: that way it comes out of the normal flow of content, so you don't need 100% on everythjing else
[17:05] <mgdm> I wouldn't do that
[17:05] <Adriannom> yeah mgdm is right
[17:05] <Azelphur> ok
[17:06] <jutnux> Evenig
[17:06] <jutnux> Evening
[17:06] <mgdm> or position: fixed, perhaps
[17:06] <Adriannom> either that or it doesn't matter, it depends what else is on the page really
[17:19] <popey> gord: what capacity is your ac100? is it 8GB?
[17:22] <popey> oh they all have 8
[17:22] <Daviey> popey: mine has 8
[17:26] <gord> yeah
[17:32] <popey> one appears to be on the way to my house
[17:33] <AlanBell> hope you are all celebrating world toilet day tomorrow
[17:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> And how would one do that exactly AlanBell?
[17:36] <AlanBell> I am told there will be someone dressed as a toilet walking round Farnham
[17:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hah
[17:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Do we know them?
[17:37] <AlanBell> don't think so
[17:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> Shame.
[17:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> That would have made good sporting entertainment
[17:39] <AlanBell> http://www.worldtoilet.org/WTD/toolkit_15.html
[17:39]  * popey is beering in farnham this evening
[17:39] <popey> with humans
[17:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Are you popey?
[17:39] <popey> yes
[17:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Know where abouts?
[17:39] <popey> lemme check mails
[17:40] <TheOpenSourcerer> Sometimes I end up at the Cobbett
[17:41] <popey> no venue specified
[17:41] <popey> so no idea
[17:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> NM - Have a nice evening. If I get into town I will ping you.
[17:41] <popey> I'll text you where i am when i am there
[17:42] <popey> your number ends in 6505?
[17:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think I shall take a couple of Naga chillies down to my local later. :-D
[17:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> No
[17:42] <AlanBell> 195
[17:42] <AlanBell> mine ends in 190
[17:42] <popey> oh, i dont have your number then
[17:42] <AlanBell> rest is the same
[17:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> you do now.
[17:43] <popey> i had bells
[17:43] <popey> odd
[17:43] <popey> i have both now
[17:43] <popey> ta
[17:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> I think that was my old number.
[17:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Anyway. TTFN. Have a nice w/e everyone.
[17:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - drool: http://crave.cnet.co.uk/cartech/jaguar-xkr-s-convertible-pics-show-off-powerful-drop-top-jag-50006144/
[17:45] <popey> I have taken to ending facebook chats with "END OF CONVERSATION"
[17:45] <popey> so there is complete clarity
[17:45] <popey> people know I have walked away and am not ignoring them
[17:47] <bigcalm> Too many Alans
[17:47] <TheOpenSourcerer> There is NEVER enough Alans
[18:04] <gord> i hear too many alans spoils the broth
[18:05] <AlanBell> only if they put nagas in it
[18:13] <dwatkins> popey is wise, but didn't end this conversation ;)
[18:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> https://twitter.com/#!/opensourcerer/status/137595345017372673 mwah ha ha
[18:25] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wow this is cool. Not sure what I'd do with one but cool nevertheless: http://blog.laptopmag.com/usb-stick-contains-dual-core-computer-turns-any-screen-into-an-android-station
[18:32] <MartijnVdS> So.. the internet will explode soon I heard?
[18:33] <dwatkins> what does one do with chillies in a pub?
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: eat them?
[18:33] <dwatkins> raw? on their own (but with beer)?
[18:33] <MartijnVdS> oh.. no.. as part of some fewd
[18:36] <dwatkins> ahh
[18:37] <popey> Our water supply has stopped
[18:38] <daubers> evening
[18:41] <dogmatic69> o/
[18:45] <dwatkins> bah, popey, hope it's just a glitch
[18:46] <popey> me too
[18:52] <Adriannom> hi.  still having problems with this ssd in the new machine build.  i get the error "gave up waiting for root device" when i try to boot.  if i wait and type exit the error repeats.  if i load grub and try recovery mode i get a blank screen forever.  i also tried deleting the UUID from grub and the error persists.  i've booted a livecd and i can't actually see any disks under the sata host adapter.  i can see the dis
[18:52] <Adriannom> k in the bios though.  any ideas what i could try next?
[18:52] <Adriannom> when i say i can't see any disks i'm looking at the disk utility
[18:57] <dwatkins> What bus is it on, Adriannom?
[18:58] <dwatkins> I've had similar issues with a CF Card on a non-DMA adapter, I had to get a new adapter which supported DMA.
[19:02] <bigcalm> Looks like I've hit the 7pm slow down
[19:11] <Adriannom> damnit
 dwatkins, i have no idea how to answer that question.  here's the board though: http://www.ebuyer.com/221178-asrock-n68c-s-ucc-geforce-7025-socket-am2-vga-out-6-channel-audio-n68c-s-ucc
[19:11] <dwatkins> what kind of SSD is it, SATA?
[19:12] <Adriannom> yes
[19:13] <Adriannom> dwatkins, http://www.ebuyer.com/268239-ocz-60gb-agility-3-ssd-2-5-sata-iii-read-525mb-s-write-agt3-25sat3-60g
[19:13] <dwatkins> Does it work ok if you just boot from USB and mount it?
[19:14] <Adriannom> i booted from livecd and can't mount it.  /dev/sda1 doesn't exist apparently
[19:15] <dwatkins> if you're booting from USB, the disk references may well change compared to running the OS off a hard disk or other medium, /dev/sdXn names are dynamic
[19:15] <MonsterKiller> Hey, tried to install python3 and got an error to do with mtop: http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpeeesewejeezhj
[19:15] <dwatkins> does the disk work ok as a secondary disk in this or another machine? I'm wondering if it's actually faulty.
[19:16] <MonsterKiller> not sure whats wrong :/
[19:16] <Adriannom> dwatkins, oh... how do i find out what device it might be under?
[19:16] <Adriannom> it was working totally fine in my old machine
[19:16] <Adriannom> just swapped it over today
[19:16] <dwatkins> Adriannom: your can use this command at the terminal to see all disc-like devices: cat /proc/partitions
[19:16] <dwatkins> the size should give-away which one it is, it's probably in bytes, though
[19:17] <Adriannom> only loop0
[19:17] <Adriannom> which i'm guessing is the live cd
[19:17] <dwatkins> yeah
[19:17] <dwatkins> do you know if the SATA adapter on the motherboard is supported?
[19:18] <Adriannom> :s i hope so
[19:18] <Adriannom> i didn't even know that could be an issue
[19:19] <Adriannom> oh you mean does ubuntu support the sata adapter
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> it should be
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> SATA adapters are pretty generic pieces of hardware
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> it might be disabled in the bios though
[19:20] <Adriannom> shame there isn't a bios emulator online so that you could see what i'm seeing :|
[19:21] <Adriannom> anything else to try in the livecd before i take another look at the bios?  it's just the livecd takes forever to load
[19:23] <dwatkins> lspci
[19:24] <Adriannom> ok
[19:24] <dwatkins> see if it lists the SATA adapter
[19:24] <Adriannom> mcp61 sata controller
[19:24] <Adriannom> that it?
[19:25] <dwatkins> no idea, but it might be
[19:26] <dwatkins> also, check the motherboard manual
[19:26] <dwatkins> you may have several SATA ports, e.g. there could be a separate RAIDed SATA adapter, and if it's disabled, you might have connected the disk to the wrong port
[19:26] <Adriannom> there are 4 sata ports, it's in the primary
[19:27] <dwatkins> I had 6 SATA ports on one motherboard, two were the same colour, the other four were a differencet colour
[19:27] <dwatkins> ok cool
[19:27] <Adriannom> nah they're all identical, in manual too
[19:28] <dwatkins> that's a good sign, at least
[19:29] <Adriannom> ugh
[19:30] <Adriannom> found someone with the same mobo/ssd combo on ubunt forums and they had no joy
[19:31] <Adriannom> they sent the ssd back, but i can't since i've had it a while
[19:31] <Adriannom> http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-1687413.html
[19:32] <dwatkins> bah
[19:32] <dwatkins> at least you know it works in another machine, you might have luck with a different motherboard or a PCI/PCIx SATA card, assuming its not just a software problem.
[19:32] <dwatkins> Not read the link yet, but other distros may have more luck
[19:33] <Adriannom> heh
[19:33] <dwatkins> does their dmesg output match yours, Adriannom?
[19:34] <Adriannom> actually no
[19:34] <dwatkins> also, is flashing the BIOS an option?
[19:34] <Adriannom> there's no sda stuff in dmesg at all
[19:34] <Adriannom> i guess so
[19:34] <Adriannom> i'd rather not send stuff back for other stuff if i can help it
[19:35] <dwatkins> can you actually see the disk identified in the BIOS ok?
[19:35] <Adriannom> maybe that guy's ssd was actually faulty
[19:35] <dwatkins> maybe
[19:35] <Adriannom> yeah it's in there
[19:35] <Adriannom> i'll boot to bios and check out some stuff
[19:36] <dwatkins> ok, upgrade the BIOS and try other operating systems/distros
[19:36] <dwatkins> g'luck
[19:36] <Adriannom> thanks dwatkins
[19:36] <Adriannom> it might actually be something pretty fundamental i'm missing in the bios
[19:37] <dwatkins> try the IDE opton
[19:37] <Adriannom> already am
[19:37] <MonsterKiller> Hey, i installed python3 (ubuntu server), and im trying to compile something that needs python3 but it says "python3.pc not found or is wrong" could there be something wrong with the install?
[19:37] <Adriannom> this is interesting
[19:37] <dwatkins> some SATA cards/adapters have an option to have the... oh ok :)
[19:37] <Adriannom> when entering bios, it's just hung when auto-detecting sataII_1
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> maybe the port broke?
[19:38] <Adriannom> trying another port
[19:39] <dwatkins> good point MartijnVdS - or the cable
[19:39] <Adriannom> think i have a spare somewhere
[19:39] <Adriannom> i'll try that if this doesn't work
[19:41] <dwatkins> if the disk is recognised in the BIOS with its capacity or manufacturer, I suspect it's more likely a setting somewhere, but still could be a failed hardware connection
[19:46] <Adriannom> ok the cable and port change didn't change anything
[19:46] <Adriannom> mostly it doesn't fail auto detecting the drive when i go into the bios
[19:46] <dwatkins> what distro are you using? 11.04?
[19:46] <Adriannom> and when i do get in it displays full manufacturer info and size and everyhing
[19:46] <Adriannom> 10.04
[19:46]  * dwatkins nods
[19:47] <dwatkins> the dmesg should say if it's seeing the sata adapter and anytuhing on it
[19:47] <dwatkins> got a sata disk to test?
[19:48] <Adriannom> hm yeah i have a sata hdd
[19:48] <dwatkins> that would rule out a simple hardware failure, and probably leave you being reasonably sure it's a compatability problem, then test with other OSs on USB
[19:49] <Adriannom> yeah but the bios sometimes failing to recognise the disk is pretty stinky tbh...
[19:49] <dwatkins> if you get desperate, you could always try resetting the settings in the BIOS
[19:50] <Adriannom> you mean load bios defaults?
[19:50] <dwatkins> yep
[19:51] <Adriannom> there are a few defaults, i'll try them all
[19:53] <Adriannom> ok i tried "performance defaults" and now it won't even boot
[19:53] <Adriannom> :|
[19:53] <Adriannom> by boot i mean power on, blank screen
[19:54] <Adriannom> pfft
[19:54] <Adriannom> how the hell do i get back from that?
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> by resetting the bios
[19:55] <AlanBell> Adriannom: can't get to bios even?
[19:55] <MartijnVdS> usually by bridging 2 leads on the motherboard
[19:55] <dwatkins> what is the monitor connected to?
[19:55] <dwatkins> is there another dvi/vga port?
[19:55] <Adriannom> AlanBell, monitor doesn't get a signal
[19:56] <AlanBell> Adriannom: ick. What motherboard?
[19:56] <Adriannom> vga only.  i could add a video card...
[19:56] <dwatkins> pulling the battery out might help, but I'm guessing it's saved to flash memory whatever setting has caused the monitor not to get used at power-up
[19:56] <Adriannom> AlanBell, http://www.ebuyer.com/221178-asrock-n68c-s-ucc-geforce-7025-socket-am2-vga-out-6-channel-audio-n68c-s-ucc
[19:56] <dwatkins> how long did you wait?
[19:57] <Adriannom> few minutes
[19:57] <dwatkins> disconnect power, i.e. all leads from the power supply and take the battery out for at least a minute
[19:57] <AlanBell> BIOS "Supports jumperfree"
[19:58] <AlanBell> which doesn't sound all that great!
[19:58] <Adriannom> ok i'll try
[19:58] <AlanBell> might be a poke about in the manual job
[19:58] <AlanBell> some kind of magic key to hold down at boot time or something
[20:00] <Adriannom> oh ok, that worked dwatkins
[20:00] <Adriannom> in fact, i think it might have some magic failsafe bios thing where it detects a number of failed boots then rescues you
[20:00] <Adriannom> that's what appeared to happen anyway
[20:01] <dwatkins> cool
[20:01] <dwatkins> never underestimate the power of a random suggestion from someone travelling at 120 miles per hour through the yorkshire countryside ;)
[20:02] <Adriannom> lol
[20:04] <Adriannom> well, i've run out of ideas...  i'm guessing you guys have too
[20:04] <Adriannom> i guess i might have to change the mobo
[20:05] <dwatkins> you tested again since the reset?
[20:05] <Adriannom> yeah same
[20:05] <dwatkins> pastebin the dmesg?
[20:06] <Adriannom> ok sure
[20:13] <Adriannom> dwatkins, sorry, as i said, booting livecd takes like a million years
[20:13] <dwatkins> no worries, I won't get to my destination for another hour and a half
[20:13] <dwatkins> I have a good book, too
[20:14] <Adriannom> what book?
[20:14] <dwatkins> Second in the "Newsflesh" zombie trilogy: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deadline-Newsflesh-Trilogy-Mira-Grant/dp/1841498998/
[20:16] <Adriannom> heheh cool
[20:16] <Adriannom> never read a zombie book
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: is that like pride and prejudice and zombies?
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pride-Prejudice-Zombies-Romance-now-Ultraviolent/dp/1594743347/
[20:19] <Adriannom> :P
[20:19] <Adriannom> wonder if colin firth will star in the movie
[20:20] <dwatkins> haha
[20:20] <dwatkins> I like it - she doesn't just talk about the immediate panic, but what might happen years afterwards
[20:21] <MartijnVdS> wut.. there's more: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sense-Sensibility-Sea-Monsters-Winters/dp/1594744424/http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sense-Sensibility-Sea-Monsters-Winters/dp/1594744424/
[20:22] <dwatkins> interestin
[20:23] <dwatkins> this book has an octopus in it
[20:24] <Adriannom|droid> GRR
[20:25] <Adriannom|droid> The cat just flying headbutted my drink into my laptop.....
[20:25] <DJones> Adriannom|droid: Sounds like you need a new pet... Maybe a dog :)
[20:25] <Adriannom|droid> Like I need more tech problems right now
[20:26] <AlanBell> need a new drink too
[20:27] <DJones> I'm watching a very weird film called "Machete"
[20:28] <Azelphur> yay, my entire telephone exchange went down /again/
[20:28] <denny> I have a great display glitch. I was saying in here earlier that my drag-n-drop doesn't work in the workspace switcher and window list applets?  It does.  But you have to drag one screen to the right, and then drop in the matching displaced location.  Go figure.
[20:28] <DJones> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0985694/
[20:28] <Azelphur> that's the 3rd time in a few months, seriously don't they have any form of quality control in the exchanges?
[20:30] <DJones> This film has some well known names in it, Robert De Niro, Jessica Alba, Steven Seagull, Lindsey Lohan.... Go figure that
[20:32] <denny> isn't Lohan a porn star?
[20:33] <DJones> Don't know about that, but doped up smack head springs to mind
[20:42] <Adriannom> cat 1, laptop 0
[20:43] <AlanBell> oh dear
[20:44] <Azelphur> !logs
[20:44] <lubotu3`> Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ . LoCo channels are now logged there too; for older LoCo channel logs, see http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
[20:45] <Adriannom> dwatkins, http://pastebin.com/g4GAEX5D
[20:49] <dwatkins> Adriannom: are you booting from USB or CD?
[20:50] <Adriannom> cd
[20:50] <dwatkins> I don't see a reason for the problem, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any mention of the SSD in fact, but you might want to disconnect the CD-Rom if possible, and perhaps all other devices not needed for booting, just to rule them out
[20:50] <dwatkins> can you try booting from USB with the CD-ROM disconnected?
[20:50] <Adriannom> yeah actually cd drives can do some pretty weird things can't they
[20:51] <DJones> Heh, comment in the film,the human intestine is 60 feet long, so "good guy" to escape cuts a blokes stomach open, grabs the intestine & jumps out of the windows swinging onto another floor.... WIERD to say the least
[20:51] <dwatkins> I don't know if it's the cause, but those errors just make me think it's best to take it out of the equation
[20:51] <Azelphur> mgdm: position fixed got it, ty
[20:51] <Adriannom> i don't have a usb startup disk at the moment
[20:51] <Adriannom> i'll have to sort one out
[20:51] <Azelphur> sorry for the epicslow reply, but the people at BT felt the need to break the local telephone exchange for the 3rd time this year
[20:51] <dwatkins> it's probably on a totally separate (IDE?) bus, but removing all non-used devices will help narrow the problem down
[20:52] <dwatkins> there seems to be a problem with the drive or the disc in the CD-ROM drive from those errors, perhaps it's just an incompatabiltyity
[20:52] <Adriannom> if it is a compatibility problem, what do you reckon, replace mobo or ssd?
[20:53] <dwatkins> up to you, test with what you can get hold of, replace whichever is cheaper, I guess - the mobo seems to be a bit old
[20:53] <dwatkins> I couldn't even find the driver download, and a new mobo will set you back less than a new SSD, I imagine
[20:53] <Adriannom> oh really?  i guess i could just replace it anyway then
[20:53] <Adriannom> just ordered the mobo
[20:54] <Adriannom> ordered it late last night and it arrived this morning ;s
[20:54] <Adriannom> they couldn't wait to get rid of it i suspect
[20:56] <Adriannom> ok, i'm going to try the things you said, but i think that i'm going to leave mobo/ssd mysteries and cat/laptop annihilation alone for now and go and get really drunk
[20:56] <Adriannom> i see no alternative
[20:57] <Adriannom> thanks a bunch for all your help dwatkins, really appreciated :O)
[20:57] <Adriannom> :)
[20:57] <dwatkins> welcome :)
[20:57] <dwatkins> if it's new, you might be able to send it back
[20:58] <dwatkins> borrow another PC and test the SSD in that, or install a different distro or operating system to see if the issue is Ubuntu's drivers or an actual hardware compatability, perhaps
[21:25] <czajkowski> aloha
[21:28] <dutchie> hey czajkowski
[21:28] <czajkowski> dutchie: ello long time no see
[21:28] <dutchie> yeah, university keeping me busy
[21:28] <Ray^e> hi
[21:28] <dutchie> this week is a little less frantic, then there's only one more after that!
[21:29] <dutchie> short terms are great :D
[21:36] <AlanBell> we have one, maybe two places remaining for the christmas meal
[21:36] <czajkowski> dutchie: you're the only college student I know who went to college and wasn't on irc :)
[21:38] <AlanBell> !info kruler
[21:38] <lubotu3`> kruler (source: kdegraphics): screen ruler for KDE. In component main, is optional. Version 4:4.6.5-0ubuntu1 (natty), package size 103 kB, installed size 412 kB
[21:46] <dutchie> czajkowski: i have been on irc, just mostly in the channel with my college colleagues
[22:21] <ali1234> didn't it used to be possible to share/link to a comment on g+?
[22:22] <jutnux> Evening gents!
[22:24] <AlanBell> ali1234: has to be a public comment I think
[22:24] <ali1234> well it's a comment on a public post
[22:25] <AlanBell> oh, I see, to a comment]
[22:25] <ali1234> https://plus.google.com/111049168280159033135/posts/XkVxezs1DZY
[22:25] <ali1234> see arjan's reply
[22:25] <AlanBell> I don't recall being able to link to comments
[22:25] <ali1234> it's the loooooong one
[22:26] <jutnux> Google Plus (L)
[22:28] <Azelphur> Anyone know why I could be getting Call to undefined function imagelayereffect() in PHP, when that function is a stock PHP function
[22:28] <jutnux> Do you have PHPGD installed Azelphur?
[22:29] <jutnux> Never mind actually
[22:29] <jutnux> It doesn't require it
[22:29] <jutnux> (PHP 4 >= 4.3.0, PHP 5)
[22:29] <Azelphur> jutnux: it does, says in the notes, and yea I do have it
[22:29] <Azelphur> Note: This function requires GD 2.0.1 or later (2.0.28 or later is recommended).
[22:29] <jutnux> Oh yes.
[22:29] <jutnux> Didn't read that far
[22:30] <Azelphur> hehe
[22:31] <jutnux> Anyone watching CiN?
[22:31] <ali1234> how do i get someone's name in the comment reply/highlight them?
[22:31] <jutnux> ali1234, simply type their name.
[22:32] <AlanBell> +the name
[22:32] <jutnux> Or type the start of their name and press tab.
[22:32] <jutnux> Oh you mean in G+
[22:32] <jutnux> Fail :(
[22:32] <ali1234> yes
[22:32] <ali1234> alanbell has the correct answer :)
[22:40]  * AlanBell wonders whether to have more beer
[22:41] <jutnux> Do you make your own beer or buy it AlanBell ?
[22:41] <AlanBell> the beer I am considering is Stella, at room temperature
[22:41] <denny> did the 'mark messages as read' delay config option disappear in Evolution?  anyone know a way to set it still, some CLI magic or something?  the default is way too slow for my taste
[22:42] <AlanBell> I appear to be out of ales
[22:42] <jutnux> Room temperature anything is disgusting
[22:42] <jutnux> So I can't imagine Stella is very nice.
[22:42] <AlanBell> red wine
[22:43] <denny> guy I know who ran a few pubs said red wine is meant to be room temperature from when they didn't have central heating..  so a few degrees below usual room temperatures now
[22:44] <jutnux> Don't really drink so can't comment on that!
[22:44] <AlanBell> denny: apparently the real key to red wine is to decant it
[22:44] <AlanBell> personally, I just drink it
[22:44] <denny> :)
[22:50] <Azelphur> Is there a PHP ppa to get you on the latest version of PHP?
[22:51] <Azelphur> or some easy way to get a non-bricked PHP GD?
[22:51] <ali1234> build it from source?
[22:52] <Azelphur> ali1234: I guess, was hoping to not have to do that
[22:53] <ali1234> php is horrible anyway
[22:53] <ali1234> i would rather build it from source than write something using it
[22:53] <jutnux> ali1234, cannot believe you just said that.
[22:53] <AlanBell> php is pretty horrible
[22:53]  * jutnux dies a little inside
[22:54] <AlanBell> just has some useful apps that use it
[22:54] <ali1234> phpmyadmin is a life saver
[22:54] <jutnux> The new design is sexy!
[22:54] <AlanBell> yeah, phpmyadmin is nice
[22:54] <ali1234> can't think of any others though
[22:55] <jutnux> NaviCat is good on Winslows.
[22:55] <AlanBell> I use wordpress, vtiger, limesurvey, phpmyadmin (and phppgadmin a couple of times)
[22:56] <AlanBell> and Joomla!
[22:56] <jutnux> Is Drupal any good?
[22:56] <ali1234> i only use phpmyadmin when someone tasks me to figure out why their monstrous pile of php hacks has stopped working
[22:56] <AlanBell> but it scares me every time
[22:57] <jutnux> What language do you prefer to you for server side web dev then AlanBell, ali1234
[22:57] <ali1234> python
[22:57] <AlanBell> jutnux: I like python, specifically the openERP framework for business applications
[22:57] <Azelphur> jutnux: I really like Drupal :)
[22:57] <ali1234> python for anything that isn't a device driver or extremely dependent on bitwise operations and pointers for speed
[22:57] <jutnux> I like Python for desktop development.
[22:57] <ali1234> and even the latter can be mostly done with numpy
[22:58] <Azelphur> I like python too, if I was designing from scratch I'd be using Python
[22:58] <AlanBell> I also think java and ruby are reasonably decent architecturally, but I can't be bothered to learn those right now
[22:58] <Azelphur> but the web stuff / CMS stuff in Python just isn't anywhere near as mature as Drupal is
[22:58] <jutnux> I still love PHP though
[22:58] <jutnux> specifically Laravel.
[22:58] <Azelphur> I'm not a PHP fan
[22:58] <jutnux> for a framework that is
[22:58] <ali1234> yesterday i learned that java has no unsigned types
[22:58] <AlanBell> I use Alfresco which is a big fat lump of java, and I am doing a shapado project which is Ruby on Rails
[22:59] <jutnux> CSS3 is amazing.
[22:59] <ali1234> if you want to do unsigned comparison on two bytes you have to do ((a+0x100)&0xff) < ((b+0x100)&0xff)
[22:59] <AlanBell> eww
[22:59] <dutchie> ali1234: that seems, er, short-sighted
[22:59] <ali1234> which implicitly casts them both to 32 bit
[23:00] <ali1234> but that's OK, because in java, byte and short are both 32 bit anyway
[23:00] <AlanBell> 2s complement is something you shouldn't really have to deal with in an actual language
[23:00] <ali1234> also byte a = 0xff; gives a compile error
[23:00] <AlanBell> that is electronic engineering, not programming!
[23:00] <ali1234> so yeah, that's java
[23:01] <jutnux> http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/18/microsoft_patent_employee_monitoring/
[23:03] <ali1234> as for ruby, there is too much punctuation. it makes the code unreadable
[23:03] <ali1234> which i find odd for a language that is supposed to be meaningful when you read it out loud
[23:07] <AlanBell> I have not read much of it yet, just had a bit of a fight with the config files and gem deployment system
[23:07] <AlanBell> gems vs debs
[23:08] <AlanBell> I will have to do the whole thing again with gems vs rpms in a week or so
[23:08] <ali1234> if i look at a single line of code and i have no idea what it does that's generally a clue that the language sucks
[23:10] <ali1234> C++ code that does a lot of operator overloading is pretty bad for that
[23:11] <AlanBell> I discovered today you can have whitespace before a method in python, so you can do datetime .date .today() and it works
[23:11] <ali1234> i didn't know that
[23:11] <ali1234> but why would you want to do that other than to make the code unreadable?
[23:11] <AlanBell> I have no idea
[23:12] <ali1234> what about datetime. date. today()
[23:12] <AlanBell> I saw it in a patch, and was trying to figure out what it meant
[23:12] <ali1234> it means "i'm a douchebag and you should reject my patch" as far as i am concerned :)
[23:12] <AlanBell> yeah, that works too
[23:13] <AlanBell> datetime . date . today() as well
[23:13] <ali1234> python is generally quite forgiving of extra whitespace as long as it isn't at the start of a line that isn't a continuation