/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/19/#xubuntu-devel.txt

=== xGrindoff is now known as xGrind
ochosimadnick: morning, just started working on the lightdm-greeter mockup08:20
madnickochosi: awesome :)08:32
ochosii'm still thinking of going somewhere in this direction: http://images.derStandard.at/2011/11/03/1319222803137.png08:33
ochosii think dropping the "fake panel" on top or bottom – which we always used to have because of gdm – is a rather good idea08:34
ochosibecause we don't really need it anymore08:34
ochosiand it looks cleaner08:34
ochosimadnick: btw, do you have the white glowing xubuntu-logo anywhere?08:35
madnickochosi: typ i do08:36
madnickyup*08:36
madnick1 sec08:36
ochosity08:36
madnickochosi: acctually are you using oneiric?08:36
ochosiyup08:37
madnickif you are, its /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/xubuntu-logo.png08:37
madnickand thats the same as i got :P08:37
ochosilol08:37
ochosithanks08:37
ochosijust didn't want to bother searching ;)08:37
madnicki think knome has an svg08:38
ochosipng is fine for mockups08:38
madnickokay08:38
madnickI ran into some really annoying problems when I attempted to fix the settings dialog for lightdm :P08:42
ochosirly, what problems?08:43
madnickWell, I need the parent to resize my plug window, which it sorta does08:43
madnickBut fixed + resize :(08:44
madnickThe settings window is resizable08:44
ochosiright, not sure i get the problematic part of being able to resize the window08:45
ochosiit'll just add scrollbars, no?08:45
ochosi(if not, i guess you can add an option to your window to enable them)08:46
madnickNo no, if you make the window biggeer08:46
madnickInstead of smaller08:46
madnickit would keep its position08:46
madnickby default08:46
madnickall the widgets08:46
madnick(yes, i could manually remap them, but that feels unclean)08:48
ochosiyeah, but isn't it ok if they keep their position?08:50
ochosii mean what would you expect them to do? spread evenly across the gained space?08:50
madnickochosi: yes :)08:53
madnickwell 08:53
madnicktechnically i'd expect the list view to always be to the right08:53
madnickthats why I put it on the left :P08:53
ochosiyeah, but personally i wouldn't consider it a bug08:53
madnickokay08:54
ochosii'm trying to check with other apps in the settings-manager dialog, one sec08:54
ochosihm, can't you simply set the box containing the listview to expand?08:54
ochosiafair that's only a single packing option in gtk208:55
madnicknot sure if i can when its fixed08:56
madnickwell, if you really do want it like that, i can manually set it up to handle the resize event08:57
ochosifirst draft: http://imagebin.org/18472708:58
madnickochosi: because its not really packing on fixed08:58
madnick:))08:58
ochosiclicking the avatar would show a dropdown list of available users on the system08:58
ochosibut you could still enter your username by hand08:58
madnicki like that idea08:58
ochosii'm actually wondering whether that makes any sense though08:59
ochosicause without a username on the system you shouldn't be able to log in anyway08:59
madnicktrue09:00
ochosiknome: whenever you're around, what do you think of this? http://imagebin.org/18472709:00
ochosihmyeah, you know it makes the whole thing look a bit overcrowded09:00
ochosiwe could do something like fedora does09:00
ochosior at least i think they do09:00
ochosiis the following scenario possible:09:01
ochosiwe only have a user-avatar and name displayed, clicking it shows the dropdown of available users, the only input box is a password-box. on the lower left corner we have "Not listed here?", upon clicking that instead of the user-chooser a simple text-input-box would appear09:02
madnicksure09:02
ochosiawesome09:02
ochosii think that'd be the behaviour i'd consider best09:02
ochosiwhat do you think about it?09:02
madnickI think, if they are not listed, they do not exist in the user database :P09:03
ochosiexactly, that's why i'm wondering why we need an input-box for them09:03
ochosithe "Not listed here?" would be a kinda fallback if for some reason (bug) the username is not available09:04
madnickyup09:04
ochosibut anyway, getting more opinions on that is probably a good idea09:04
ochosii'll try to adapt my mockup quickly though to fit that scenario, so it's easier to talk about it09:05
madnickPersonally, on an unrelated note, I sorta like the idea of only 1 box :P09:05
madnickhttp://www.madnick.se/~madnick/zebra.png09:05
ochosiyeah, but why enter username by hand?09:05
madnickits faster :P09:05
madnickusername -> enter -> password -> enter :P09:05
ochosinot for everyone ;)09:05
madnicktrue09:06
ochosibut we could include some basic keyboard navigation09:06
ochosifor the user-selection09:06
ochosie.g. if your user is preselected in the user-chooser, you only have to: password > enter ;)09:06
ochosiso it's faster in that case09:06
madnick:)09:06
madnickochosi: i got to go to the store, i'll be back in 2009:09
ochosinp09:10
ochosimadnick: http://imagebin.org/18472809:13
ochosialso: show "real name" instead of "username" in the chooser09:13
ochosii mean why else do we even have that property09:14
madnickochosi: yup, that sounds good09:40
ochosicool09:42
ochosibtw, i'll migrate my data to my new internal SSD today09:42
madnick:>09:42
ochosimeaning i will be out backing up data etc for a while09:42
ochosii'm also afraid the migration will take a while09:43
ochosi(stupid usb2!)09:43
madnickyou got a new laptop? (since the ssd is internal)09:43
ochosianyway, after that i'll draw my mockups at high speed! ;)09:43
ochosinah, just a two-year old dell xps m133009:43
ochosibut a friend of mine got a new laptop so he'll pass on his ssd to me09:43
madnickah09:43
ochosiin return he gets my 500gb internal hdd09:43
madnickIm gonna get Zenbook ;)09:44
ochosisounds awesome09:44
ochosilooks a bit like a macbook-air clone ;)09:44
madnickindeed :P09:44
ochosibut i wouldn't mind getting one myself09:44
madnickI don't like mac keyboards09:44
madnickand I rather avoid EFI 09:44
ochosiguess i haven't used them long enough to be able to tell09:45
ochosii'm typing on one of these babies: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQq-6CcpPj5dNPAmu0wlNPF2XzNPZQpIF-Zu8ASUzrI_UU1tCHtwCGspX3W09:45
madnick:D:D:D09:46
madnickI love those!09:46
ochosimy keyboard is only two years younger than me :)09:46
madnickThey make awsome sounds09:46
ochosiyup09:46
ochosimy gf hates that ;)09:46
madnick:P09:46
madnickPS/2 :))09:46
ochosii sometimes have to switch to my logitech kb when she's around09:46
ochosiyup09:46
ochosialthough the one i had before was still DIN09:47
ochosiso it was DIN > PS/2 > USB09:47
ochosia nice series of adapters which made it rather error-prone09:47
madnicklol09:47
ochosior in fact: DIN > PS/2 > USB HUB > USB :D09:47
ochosiso about the greeter: i guess when there is more than one user, the layout should be a bit different09:51
ochosiscenario1: only one user, you end up exactly at the screen i mocked up09:51
ochosiscenario2: multiple users, the password-box is hidden, instead there is some kind of "overflow-indicator" that opens the user-list-popup09:52
ochosidoes that make sense to you?09:52
ochosi(i can do a mockup of scenario2 with an open user-list-popup btw)09:52
madnicki suppose :P09:53
madnickIm not 100% sure09:53
madnickI know what you mean09:53
madnickthat i know*09:53
ochosik, i just added an indicator now, not sure, is that too subtle? http://imagebin.org/18473110:00
ochosibut i'd really rather not display a huge list of users...10:00
madnickHm, how about if you rotated the indicator, > and you could scroll through all the users?10:02
ochosiyou mean keep it in the same place?10:02
ochosiah, i think i get what you mean10:02
ochosiyeah, that's an option10:03
ochosibut that way you never get an overview over what users you have on your system10:03
ochosiwe could do both though10:03
ochosiclicking the avatar gives you a small popup10:04
madnickyup10:04
ochosiand having the additional triangle to cycle through10:04
ochosiin fact i think i have a nice idea for the popup10:04
ochosibut maybe it's too elaborate10:04
ochosimainly show avatars with small names underneath them10:05
ochosidoable?10:05
madnickWell, I think most people use the login screen as a little protection10:05
madnickIn single user mode10:05
madnickSo they want to get in fast :P10:05
madnickyes10:05
ochosiyeah, that's why if there's only one user i'd show the password-field immedialtely10:05
madnicksorry, i missed that perhaps, im still a bit disoriented since yesterday :P10:06
madnickBut yes, we could show small names10:06
madnickAnd avatars10:06
madnickBut ochosi 10:06
madnickPicking avatars, is something we might concider having in the settings10:07
madnickOr is that global?10:07
* madnick is not sure10:07
madnickI mean, picking which one to use10:07
madnickfor lightdm10:07
ochosii think you can pick your avatar in the user-settings. it should be global imo10:07
ochosii mean the same avatar system-wide10:07
madnickokay, cool10:07
madnickconst gchar *       lightdm_user_get_image              (LightDMUser *user);10:08
madnickyeah10:08
ochosi:)10:08
ochosiquick one: http://imagebin.org/18473210:12
ochosithe positioning isn't great, it's mostly to illustrate the idea10:12
madnick:))10:12
madnickthat looks good10:12
ochosii'd probably move it more to the bottom, so that you can still see the avatar-button clicked10:13
ochosibut something along the lines of this10:13
ochosiand maybe trim the usernames in this list10:13
ochosior add a scrollbar?10:13
ochosioh, different idea...10:13
ochosiwhen clicking the avatar, the whole black login-box gets replaced by that popup10:14
ochosiand upon clicking/choosing an avatar you get back to the login-window10:14
ochosithat'd maybe feel better than a popup10:14
madnickochosi: i like that idea :)10:53
ochosii have developed it a bit further in the last few minutes10:53
ochosibut the backup-copying makes my gimp rather useless, far too laggy... :(10:53
madnick:(10:54
* ochosi hopes it's done soon10:54
ochositoo many small files, those keep the cpu busy10:54
madnickhow much stuff do you have? :P when i do a reinstall of stuff like that, its usllay < 200MB :P10:54
ochosilucky you10:55
ochosii have 40gb photos, 60gb of music and quite a few movies (~ 200gb)10:55
ochosibut the movies i won't keep i think10:55
ochosii'll just delete most of them10:55
madnick:P10:56
ochosi(because i've seen them, archiving them doesn't make too much sense imo)10:57
ochosithat's what the cloud is for anyway10:57
madnickyup10:58
ochosiok, just to illustrate what i've been thinking about: there'd only be two screens, the normal login screen for one user and this chooser: http://imagebin.org/18473611:08
ochosiyou'd get to that by clicking the avatar or the >11:08
ochosithe "Not listed here?" would only appear in this context, not when already entering a password == already having selected a user11:09
ochosiopinions?11:09
madnicklooks nice :)11:09
ochosiagain i didn't care too much about the positioning11:09
ochosiit's just to illustrate the idea11:09
ochosi(also: my backup is still running, so drawing isn't that easy)11:10
madnick3 per line seems like a good idea11:10
madnickbecause default11:11
madnickuser other user guest 11:11
madnickif you are 2 users11:11
madnickthat is11:11
madnickso, it wouldnt give a scroll unless more than 311:11
ochosiyeah, though the 3 per line was more by accident than by concept :)11:12
ochosibut i guess it makes sense11:13
ochosithe main thing is that nothing pops up anymore11:14
ochosiwhich i think is visually more pleasant11:14
ochosiso maybe we can wait at this stage for knome to give some input/feedback before carrying on too much11:15
madnickyeah11:15
ochosiit's a rather clean design already: two viewmodes, one for the user-chooser, one for login11:16
madnickyep11:18
madnickWebsite Sprint at 23:00 my time? :o11:18
ochosiiirc yourtime==mytime11:19
madnickyup!11:19
ochosiguess so, not sure11:19
ochosi:)11:19
ochosii can't be there anyway, saturday night i have other things to do ;)11:20
mr_pouitknome: ah, something to add to the roadmap could be a better ui for xfce4-display-settings, to be able to set the outputs' positions ;>11:20
ochosimr_pouit: that'd be awesome! would you be the assignee? ;)11:20
ochosibut anyway, you could add it to the wiki roadmap and we can try to figure that out later11:21
mr_pouitochosi: I would have done it already if I knew how to code that ;>11:22
ochosilol11:23
mr_pouit(I only rewrote the code behind to work with randr 1.2, not the ui)11:23
ochosimaybe we should talk to stephen about it, at least he knows how to position different wallpapers on different screens11:23
mr_pouityeah, he mailed jeromeg and me about reusing that for xfce4-display-settings11:23
ochosiwell, i'd be all for it!11:24
mr_pouitbut I don't know if he really wants to take that workitem ;>11:24
ochosiyeah, especially connected with the timeframe11:24
ochosiand it seems he's still renovating11:24
ochosiyippie, almost done with my backup (only music has to be copied, so 60gb)11:26
ochosimadnick: quick question: does lightdm set any session-things in oneiric? for a friend of mine it changes the screen-resolution to something odd12:15
ochosijust looking for who the bad "guy" is and want to rule out lightdm :)12:15
madnickyes, lightdm sets the session12:15
madnickbut i dont know about resolutions :\12:16
madnickthat sounds odd12:16
ochosiwhere is lightdm's config file located?12:17
madnickochosi: /etc/lightdm12:18
madnick/etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf12:18
ochosik, thanks, i'll have a quick look into it12:18
ochosimore likely it's a session thing i guess...12:18
knomewhat's the user settings dialog? i think me menu is crapped... so where can i get the default menu file too?12:40
knomemr_pouit, hahah, lol, okay... do you think it's overly elaborate or kind of trivialish? :P12:42
madnickhi knome12:44
madnickhave you had the chance to look at the drafts?12:44
knomeyeah12:45
ochosiyes knome, did you have the chance already? :)12:45
knomei just read through the backlog12:45
ochosirighty12:45
knomei'm wondering about having any scrollbars12:45
ochosii could've given you a quick summary as well12:45
ochosibut nvm12:45
knomei think a simple list would be better12:45
knomelike a dropdown12:45
knomei'm also wondering how useful avatars really are12:45
knomehow many uses them anyway?12:46
knomedo YOU have set an avatar?12:46
madnickwell, it have not really worked until now :P12:46
knomemadnick... one thing about blueprints :D12:47
ochosiin fact ubuntu has this avatar-setting integrated in their/our installer12:47
knomemadnick, can you set your nick as [dr-madnick] as that's your *launchpad* nickname which needs to be linked12:47
madnickochosi: we do too12:48
madnickknome: yeah12:48
madnickin the blueprints itself+12:48
madnick?*12:48
knomeyeah12:48
ochosimadnick: that's why i wrote "their/our"12:49
knomeafter that, where do you set it?12:49
madnick[dr-madnick] Design the graphical user interface: INPROGRESS12:49
knomeand can somebody please pastebin me the default app menu for oneiric12:49
knomemadnick, yes12:49
madnickdone12:50
knomethanks12:50
ochosiknome: i think avatars are useful in general, and as i said, ubuntu almost forces you to set one at install-time12:50
madnickhttps://launchpad.net/~madnick12:50
madnickthat doesnt exist12:51
madnickbut i cant use it anyways :(12:51
knomemadnick, exactly. that was throwing error :)12:51
knomemadnick, maybe contact the lp admins12:51
madnickyup12:51
madnicki really dont like the word around for the right-side view + resize12:53
madnickbecause it needs to resize horozonally aswell12:53
madnickif it doesnt it just looks wierd :P12:53
madnickGtk.Box (?) :|12:54
madnickwork around*12:55
ochosiknome: any other feedback on the general look of the greeter?13:12
knomei'm also not sure about the "window" being 100% solid (not transparent at all), but othewise i think it's fine.13:13
knomeand maybe use a bit less curved corners13:13
ochosiyeah, those can all be figured out13:14
ochosibut in general i'd prefer to only have this box and not an additional panel like we always had13:14
ochosii mean just for accessibility and power-man it's a bit too much to add a panel imo13:14
ochosiabout the user-switcher, yeah, at first i was also thinking about a simple dropdown, but on the other hand the avatar-thing might be nice and useful13:16
knomeyeah13:17
knomeochosi, if it brings scrollbars, i'm kind of reluctant13:17
ochosiit could also be a popup13:17
knomeochosi, scrollbar in a dropdown box however... it's not that bad13:17
ochosii had a design for that at first13:17
knomewhat if you had 200 users?13:17
ochosiyeah, imagine a dropdown with 200 users ;)13:17
knomewith scrollbar that's possible13:18
ochosiwell the advantage of the stacked avatars would be that you'd have 3 per line13:18
ochosiwe could even offer both in the end13:19
ochosialso: the dark frame is rather minimal/small at the moment, i'd probably make it larger in the end13:19
knomeyeah, hard to say how it turns out to be13:21
ochosik, so let's keep both options in mind?13:22
ochosialso: you're fine with showing the real-name?13:22
ochosi(and show the username as fallback, i should add)13:23
madnickReal Name13:24
madnick(username)13:24
madnickwait13:24
madnicki guess that wouldnt fit very well13:25
ochosimadnick: could we show a simple-list-popup if there's more than 3 users?13:25
madnickwe could13:25
ochosiknome: what do you think about that? ^13:25
knomei like the idea of "Real Name (username)" ...13:26
knomethe username usually isn't very long :P13:26
ochositrue13:26
knomesimple-list-popup as in?13:26
ochosiwe still might have to trim them13:26
ochosiwell, simple-list-popup as in: text-only list of usernames13:26
ochosior even of "Realname (username"ys13:27
ochosimeh13:27
ochosi:)13:27
knomewhat would it look like?13:29
knomeavatar + rn(user) ?13:29
knome<br />13:29
knomerepeat;13:29
ochosiwithout the avatar, just rn(user)<br>13:29
ochosito control the overflow better and to make the list shorter13:30
ochosi(short in terms of pixels)13:30
knomemm13:31
ochosii can quickly draw it13:31
knomeyeah, could work, but wouldn't that mean showing avatars anywhere was BLEH?13:31
knomejust add small versions of the avatars :P13:31
ochosiyeah, better :)13:31
knomeimo we don't need to show huge avatars anywhere13:32
knomejust something like 20px tall13:32
knome=~ 1 line-height13:32
ochosiwell, maybe 48px in the login-screen, that'd be kinda nice13:32
knome+ a bit more13:32
ochosii'd show the selected username a bit larger than a normal line13:32
ochosias you could see in one of the mockups13:33
knomemadnick, you good in optimizing python? :P13:33
madnickochosi: how do i scale a selection in gimp?13:33
ochosimadnick: put it on a separate layer13:33
madnickknome: depends :P13:33
knomemadnick, https://launchpad.net/launchpad-work-items-tracker13:34
ochosivery quick: http://imagebin.org/18474113:36
ochosii like the idea with the small line-height avatars in the simple-list a lot btw13:36
knomeyup13:36
madnickknome: i'd say I have quite a few thing todo already, so adding something more might be bad for the current items :P13:36
knome;]13:36
knomeokay13:36
knomenp with that13:36
knomejust asking13:36
madnickI do expect to have working items soon however, because im doing it constantly, but I rather not take any chances at this stage, perhaps I can do more things later13:37
ochosiyeah, sounds good13:37
madnickjust a heads up13:38
madnickavatars will litterally scale 13:38
madnickso smaller avatars = look wierd probably13:38
ochosiyeah, i don't think we should care about that :)13:39
knomebbl13:44
madnickhi GridCube 13:49
GridCubehi madnick 13:49
madnickochosi: when you are ready, i could implement this and we can see how it works out, on a real computer/vm13:50
GridCubehows you lightdm configuration program going? added an avatar option yet? and a change your background box?13:51
ochosimadnick: cool, i'll try to get it done today13:51
madnickGridCube: well, thats greeter options13:51
GridCubeoh13:51
madnickGridCube: which means that they are not the same for all greeters (avatar is tho)13:51
madnickbut avatar is changable, but i dont know where :)13:52
madnickusers / groups :P13:52
ochosii think in the user-settings (main-menu > system > users and groups)13:52
GridCubeits fun because when i was installing xubuntu it recognized i have a webcam and asked to take me a picture for the greeter, but it never used it13:52
madnickwhy isnt user settings in the settings manager?13:52
ochosiyeah, it's not really used up to now in xubuntu13:53
ochosimadnick: settings-manager is xfce-upstream, so only their stuff is inside13:53
ochosi(or mostly)13:53
madnicki see13:53
GridCubeoh in users and groups it shows the picture it took, but in the greeter it does not13:53
madnickwhat is the user / group maanger called?13:55
GridCubeusers admin?13:55
GridCubeusers-admin13:55
madnickthanks13:55
GridCubesorry for adding more job to your inbox :P13:56
ochosiok, deleting my local hdd now14:05
ochosi(hopefully) see you later14:05
GridCubeD:14:05
GridCubegood luck14:05
ochosity14:05
holsteinanyont aware of a bug for clicking on downloaded .debs ?14:25
holsteinanyone*14:25
* holstein searching....14:25
GridCubewhat kind of bug?14:25
holsteinlike "clicking on downloaded .deb doesnt work"14:26
holsteinthis is not unlike it...https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/78895314:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 788953 in software-center (Ubuntu) "deb installation authentication gui does not allow password entry: box is greyed out" [Undecided,New]14:28
GridCubehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/86818814:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 868188 in software-center (Ubuntu) ""Internal Error ...google-chrome-stable_current_amd64.deb could not be opened"" [Medium,In progress]14:29
GridCubehttp://www.linuxnov.com/internal-error-during-package-installation-using-ubuntu-software-center-on-ubuntu-11-10/14:29
holsteinthe .deb seems fine... i used dpkg -i14:30
GridCubeholstein, see that last link i pasted14:35
holsteinGridCube: yeah... i have the package installed now, and i didnt get an error message 14:39
holsteini just clicked the .deb from the browser and a *tiny* software center opened, went grey and crashed14:40
GridCubeyes, i got some problems with debs myself14:40
holsteinthen, i clicked on it from the */Downloade folder and something similar happened, though the software center wasnt tiny14:40
ochosimadnick: which mockup is the most important for you? the login view? or the chooser?17:50
madnickochosi: well, the technical aspect of it17:53
madnickso the chooser i guess17:54
madnickunless you plan to make something 17:54
madnickthat is even more technical requiring :P17:54
ochosinah, not really17:54
madnickbasically: if its visual only, i dont need it yet17:55
madnickbut if its a feature17:55
madnicki need it .P17:55
ochosiok, well if you can do the basic visuals of what i posted earlier that'd be a good starting point17:55
madnickyup!17:55
ochosithe chooser would be this simple popup, basically a scrollable listview with: avatar|rn(username)17:56
madnickochosi: it would be great if you could export the graphics :P 17:56
ochosisure, do you want the messy xcf or individual graphics?17:56
madnickif the xcf has it all, i can take that :)Ä17:57
ochosiand: are you painting everything with pixmaps or what toolkit are you using17:57
madnickhtml :)17:57
ochosiright :)17:57
ochosiwas mainly wondering about stuff like the login-button17:57
ochosibecause it's just a mockup, not a very perfect button. maybe better to redraw it before you put it there17:57
ochosiand i guess you'd need a hover-effect for that as well17:57
madnickthat be cool :)17:59
ochosiok, i'll start by sending you the xcf and after you created an initial version it should be easy to replace the individual graphics anyway, right?17:59
madnicksure18:00
madnickyes*18:00
ochosik, mind to pm me your email-address?18:00
madnickthere18:01
ochosisent18:02
madnickhm18:03
madnickit doesnt appear :P18:03
madnickthere we go18:04
ochosik :)18:04
ochosifor a moment i thought i sent it to someone else ;)18:04
EagleScreenhello18:04
ochosihi18:04
EagleScreenI think that Software Origins woulb be better under the System menu, not Configuration menu, it is a few messed for me18:05
knomemr_pouit, "Use maybe-ubiquity" <- is that high or essential, or do you care about it at all?18:05
madnickochosi: ill look into this right away, however: i need your opinion on something i did, give me 10 minutes18:05
madnickif you can18:05
madnick:P18:05
ochosimadnick: sure, np18:05
madnickThen after that i can begin on this18:05
ochosimadnick: i'll be around for another 3018:05
madnickok cool18:05
ochosiknome: sorry that i can't join your website sprint tonight, but a friend of mine is visiting from a different county18:06
knomeochosi, no problem. we'll just assign all the items left after the sprint to you.18:06
ochosilol18:06
ochosithanks18:06
knomenp18:06
mr_pouitknome: No iead, I don't know why I'm the assignee :]18:06
knomemr_pouit, lol18:06
knomehttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/72065218:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 720652 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "[Xubuntu] maybe-ubiquity/new greeter support" [Medium,Triaged]18:07
knomethat's reported by you??18:07
mr_pouityeah, but I didn't really track it, I think charlie was taking care of it at that time18:08
knomeright.18:08
ochosiwhere is charlie anyway? did he drop out entirely now?18:08
knomenope18:08
knomehe said he's going to be online more later in this month18:09
ochosiah ok, that's good18:09
knomeochosi, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-xubuntu-bluebird-gtk3-port18:09
EagleScreencurrently in Xubuntu 11.10, blueman want to open nautilus to browse a phone via bluetooth18:10
EagleScreenbut nautilus is not installed (and it shouldn't)18:10
knomeEagleScreen, i suppose file a bug in blueman18:10
ochosiknome: thanks, i guess there are no other workitems in that spec :)18:10
knomeochosi, yeah, i suppose18:10
EagleScreenit is already filed, but i dont see activity18:10
mr_pouitno, there's already a bug against xubuntu-default-settings for that (blueman)18:11
knomemr_pouit, but?18:11
mr_pouit#88262118:11
mr_pouitI haven't had time to look at it, that's all18:11
* knome kicks ubottu 18:11
knomebug #88262118:11
ubottuLaunchpad bug 882621 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu tries to browse bluetooth device with nautilus" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/88262118:11
knomemr_pouit, is it exo- or mimetype-problem? any idea at all?18:12
mr_pouitthe default configuration of blueman has to be changed (by shipping another one in xubuntu-default-settings)18:13
knomehuh?18:14
knomeif you install xubuntu and then ubuntu, isn't that reverted back to opening nautilus then?18:14
knomemr_pouit, re: maybe-ubiquity... is that blocking anything? eg. if we don't get it in, we still can provide usable environment?18:15
knomemr_pouit, what is it about anyway??18:15
mr_pouit<entry name="browse_command" mtime="1276424823" type="string">18:15
mr_pouit<stringvalue>Thunar obex://[%d]</stringvalue>18:15
mr_pouit</entry>18:15
mr_pouitthis is a gconf setting that needs to be overridden18:16
madnickochosi: problem, i cant record my screen O_o18:16
mr_pouitand if you use ubuntu with xubuntu-default-settings installed, then yes, it will try to open Thunar18:16
knomemr_pouit, a-ha. can't that be exo-file-manager ?18:16
knomeor sth...18:16
knomewouldn't that make sense18:16
ochosimadnick: right, hm, why's that? :)18:17
mr_pouitexo-open, yeah, why not18:17
knomebecause then it would be an infinite war between thunar and nautilus18:17
madnickochosi: i think its because im in a vm18:17
mr_pouitknome: (maybe-ubiquity: it's to have the same nice live cd menu as other variants)18:17
knomemr_pouit, would you be able to work on it this cycle?18:18
mr_pouitknome: there's already an infinite war, nautilus will screw up the desktop by default (take it over)18:18
knomemr_pouit, the reason you are assignee was that you reported the bug and i thought you wanted to pursue that18:18
ochosimadnick: can't you record outside the vm and that'll show what's inside the vm as well?18:18
knomemr_pouit, yeah, i understand, but even more reason to point to exo-open i suppose...18:18
madnickochosi: yes :|18:19
madnickffs18:19
madnick:D18:19
madnickIm quite stupid18:19
ochosiah, everyone is blocked at times ;)18:19
ochosiand you seem to sleep little lately18:20
knomebug #75288618:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 752886 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "XFCE terminal font appears bigger than other text" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/75288618:20
EagleScreen752886 also affects me18:22
ochosiit affects everyone, it's a question of what we decide, not really a bug18:22
ochosibut feel free to add your opinion to the bugreport ;)18:22
EagleScreendoes thunar support browsing obex:// ?18:25
madnickochosi: ok here we go :) http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/ldm.ogg18:25
mr_pouitEagleScreen: with the right gvfs backends installed, yes (I don't think I'd put a broken command in my settings, even for fun :p)18:25
madnickochosi: basically, what i did is: I made it so that its not fixed anymore, except the left, so that the resize works18:26
knomeimo 752886 is more about wishlist than actual "bug" affecting...18:26
madnickbut i still forgot the border + bold18:26
madnick:(18:26
GridCubemadnick, :) pretty cool18:27
ochosimadnick: looks great!18:27
madnickok good18:27
madnickI'll implement it then, and i wont forget the borders :)18:28
ochosicool!18:28
madnickand perhaps i shouldnt list all users either O_o18:28
ochosiyeah18:28
ochosithat was another thing i wanted to ask you about18:28
madnick:)18:29
madnickbtw ochosi, perhaps ill implement the greeter stuff tomorrow, since its the website sprint today18:32
madnicki can implement the functionallity today, but not the graphics18:32
ochosiawesome18:32
ochosiwe can talk in the evening tomorrow18:32
madnickokay cool18:32
knomehttp://temp.knome.fi/other/droidsans10-droidmono10.png18:32
knomehands up those who think sans mono 10 has worse readability than sans 1018:33
madnicko/18:33
knomereally?18:33
madnickno18:33
madnicki read that as18:33
madnicksorry18:33
knome:P18:33
knomeso which one has better readability18:33
madnickmono!18:33
knomeyes18:34
EagleScreenregarding Bluetooth browsing, there is common bug in Ubuntu and Xubuntu, I cannot browse and I obtain "Connection refused", but Bluetooth browsing works very well in Kubuntu (KDE + Bluedevil) for the same hardware18:34
EagleScreenthe connection refused issue is common for blueman and gnome-bluetooth18:34
EagleScreenwhat does they share?18:35
GridCubehttp://imagebin.org/18477518:38
ochosik, got to go, have a nice evening everyone!18:40
knomeochosi, you too!18:40
ochosi(and good luck with the website sprint)18:41
knomethanks18:41
madnickcya ochosi 18:41
knomeLionel, will you commit this change for Precise? Thanks.18:44
knome^ from the comments of #75288618:44
mr_pouit[xubuntu-team] Create a draft for default Conky layout for discussion and possible inclusion19:27
mr_pouitgrr19:27
knomewhat?19:27
mr_pouit(come one, we're not a random custom iso built by someone in a forum who includes all the apps he can think about))19:28
knomelol19:28
knomenope, we're not19:28
knomedon't take it too seriously yet.19:28
knomei want to investigate it19:28
knomeit's probably going to be postponed unless we have a killer idea and time to execute it19:29
knomemeh.19:31
GridCubehem?19:31
knomemoving the appearance items under one parent blueprint didn't help making the dependency tree much readable19:31
GridCubeoh, those things never look good19:34
knomeit's not about looking good, it's about text size being big enough to be readable19:35
GridCube:P19:36
GridCubeim being extremely obnoxious lately, i apologize for that,19:36
knomeno problem. if you think you can't be nothing but obnoxious at times, you can also choose to take a break :)19:41
astraljavaknome: Was that a hint?19:41
astraljavaI'll get me coat.19:41
knomelol19:42
knomenope.19:42
knomenot for you at least ;)19:42
knomewell generally really19:42
mr_pouithuhuhu :>19:42
knomethere are times when all of us feel like leaving FOSS completely19:42
knomethen it might be better to take a break19:42
knomemr_pouit, hehe19:42
knomemr_pouit, so, now that i know you're not idle19:42
astraljavaYeah, about the time when jussi joined this community.19:42
knomemr_pouit, what should i do with the kbdleds item?19:43
knomeastraljava, lol19:43
knomethat made me laugh out loud, literally19:43
mr_pouitknome: I'm not very happy with the plugin in the current state (I only looked at the latest tarball: http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-kbdleds-plugin/snapshot/xfce4-kbdleds-plugin-0.0.6.tar.bz2), and it's a big mess inside =]19:44
knomemmh.19:44
knomedo you think it would be saner to postpone it to P+1 than try to get it in the repositories while still broken?19:45
astraljavaSpeak of the devil...19:45
knomeastraljava, lols19:45
jussibwahhahahahaha19:45
jussiastraljava: sane? nah...19:45
knomejussi monitors all the *buntu* channels via some bots? :P19:45
jussiIm sitting next to him irl...19:46
knomehahah19:46
knomeright19:46
knomeastraljava, is that true?19:46
knomei mean, he could be lying. and trying to get away from monitoring the channels.19:46
astraljavaNo, I don't what he's on about.19:47
mr_pouitknome: I'll recheck it regularly until FF (if it's still not clean at that time, then let's go for P+1)19:47
astraljavaknow*19:47
jussibastard19:47
knomemr_pouit, do you think it needs a blueprint? :P :P19:47
knome<- lazy19:47
astraljavaYou really think I'd let him in the premises?!19:47
knomeyeah, i was thinking about that.19:47
GridCubemr_pouit, knome wouldnt it be better to tell that to the maintainer?19:47
knomeGridCube, please go ahead19:47
GridCubewill do so19:48
knomethanks19:48
astraljavaI am here!!! and I will always win!!! bwahaha! (from Jussi)19:48
mr_pouitGridCube: the git branch has been cleaned already19:48
jussi hehe19:48
mr_pouit(but he hasn't made a new release yet)19:48
jussiI win :D19:48
knome:O :O19:48
knomemaybe ask him to make a new release then19:48
mr_pouitknome: xubuntu-default-settings 12.04.0 uploaded, I'll let you the fun of moving work items to 'DONE'19:49
knomeGridCube, can you get back to this once you have more information in the next meeting you can attend? :P19:49
knomemr_pouit, lol, the fun19:49
knomei've been hacking with the BPs the last three days or so19:49
knomemeh19:49
GridCubethat should be next sunday?19:49
knomebut since i'm at it...19:49
mr_pouitknome: well, my mailbox tells me you're having a lot of fun ;D19:49
* mr_pouit hides19:50
knomemr_pouit, i'm sure  :D19:50
madnickhehe 18 new emails19:50
knomemr_pouit, i suppose that was for the terminal font19:50
=== baizon_ is now known as baizon
GridCubeyou want me to try to contact the developer for then, or since then?19:51
knomecontact when you can, and tell us what was the outcome in the next meeting since you know something neq19:52
knome*new19:52
GridCube:)19:52
GridCubewill do then19:52
knomethanks19:52
mr_pouitI don't remember if I said it already, but ristretto 0.3.0 is now in precise19:58
GridCubeoh :) nice19:59
knomenice19:59
knomemr_pouit, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-xubuntu-default-image-viewer :P19:59
GridCubei like ristretto 0.3.019:59
knomemr_pouit, you probably want the last action item? ;]19:59
mr_pouitristretto is still set as the default handler for pictures20:00
knomeit is??20:00
knomei thought that was set to gthumb in oneiric20:01
mr_pouitlook in /usr/share/xubuntu/applications/defaults.list20:01
mr_pouitnobody asked me to change =]20:01
knomei probably have that set to gthumb, since ristretto is unusable20:01
knomelol20:01
knomeright...20:01
knomefsst20:01
knomei just created the blueprint20:01
knomeand there is no way to DELETE it20:01
knomemr_pouit, you probably should filter mails starting with "[Blueprint" from "pasi@shimmerproject.org"20:06
knome:P20:06
mr_pouithehe20:08
knomethere is now a blueprint for every item on the roadmap with an assignee \o/20:09
pleia2my poor inbox20:11
knomepleia2, sorry :(20:11
pleia2:)20:11
knomei filtered those mails myself20:11
knome;)20:11
knomeso... mmh20:11
pleia2I will start20:11
pleia2hehe20:11
madnickim just happy to get email!20:12
knomehaha20:12
mr_pouitthat'd be great if we release 12.04 without all these stupid little bugs (such as "oops, we forgot to add gvfs-backends by default" in oneiric)20:14
knomehuh20:14
knomedo you want a blueprint for those so i will track them?20:14
knome(is there many of them)20:14
mr_pouitthe problem is that we don't know them ;>20:14
knomeheh20:14
knomewell, we know the gvfs-backend bug ;)))20:15
mr_pouityeah, but I mean: we don't know them before the release ;D20:15
knomemmh. i see what you mean20:15
knomei hope that too20:16
knomethere shouldn't be much surprises though20:16
knomeas we have a good roadmap20:16
knomeand (any) planning (at all)!!!20:16
pleia2fwiw, livecd testing goes over very well at jams I run, if we could add more comprehensive testing for livecd maybe it would catch more?20:16
pleia2the current livecd test script is pretty basic20:16
GridCubemr_pouit, will we sheep gvfs-backends on precise?!20:17
knomewe won't touch sheeps20:17
pleia2sheep++20:17
madnicksheeps are awesome :]20:17
astraljavaWe won't, but jussi will.20:17
pleia2what if I promise to walk and feed them20:18
knomeastraljava, ouch20:18
jussisheep!!!20:18
knomejussi, get your dirty tumblers off of sheep20:18
* GridCube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNMq8XS4LhE20:18
knomeermmmm20:19
knomeGridCube, i'm not really sure if that was appropriate.20:22
GridCube:( sorry20:22
knomenp. just remember all the #xubuntu channels are family friendly20:27
knomemr_pouit, maybe we can use the larger text size in the "accessibility" app set if we decide to do those20:29
mr_pouitmaybe, but then we'll need another set of xubuntu-default-settings, etc.20:44
knomei undestand.20:45
bkerensapleia2 said the sprint is starting soon so I came quickly :)21:49
pleia2:)21:49
* knome hopes the website stays up all the sprint ;]21:52
pleia2hehe21:52
bkerensa:P21:52
pleia2will be a good test of wordpress21:52
knomei'm not worried of wordpress21:52
bkerensaLOL21:52
knomei'm worried of the canonical server21:53
bkerensayeah21:53
pleia2oh, the old site?21:53
bkerensaWordpress is fine :D21:53
pleia2there have been problems with fridge since the move to WP :\21:53
knomeright21:53
knomei haven't had any problems with our wp installation21:53
bkerensapleia2: What kind of problems? :D I spend epic amounts of time working with WP21:53
pleia2akgraner found someone in IS to hold accountable if it dies though :)21:53
knomemaybe fridge uses some weird plugins?21:53
knomepleia2, eh? :D21:53
pleia2it's just high traffic so it gets resource wedged sometimes21:54
knomemmhm21:54
bkerensapleia2: W3 Total Cache + Cloudflare would solve that21:54
pleia2bkerensa: I don't run it, it's within canonical's wp infrastructure21:54
bkerensapleia2: What does that mean? :) Does that mean they handle all administration of the install?21:55
pleia2boo, upgrade on my other system is not done yet21:55
pleia2bkerensa: yes21:55
bkerensapleia2: Oh well then that makes sense :P21:55
knomewell not "all administration", but definitely anything that concerns touching files :P21:55
pleia2yeah, we just get wp logins21:55
knomewe do have admin accounts though21:55
bkerensaknome: Kind of silly if they dont know how to run a good install ;)21:56
knomephew :)21:56
knomeany plugins being solutions can be debatable21:56
bkerensaknome: Well if you have admin access you can drop in W3 Total Cache which powers the highest traffic WP sites on the web21:56
bkerensa:D21:56
knomebkerensa, nope, when you can't get any files installed.21:56
knomeadmin access only concerns wp, not the server21:57
bkerensaAdmin access on a WP install though allows you to go to > Plugins > Add New > Upload Plugin21:57
pleia2there was a pretty high profile case of the community servers getting hacked several years ago, since then they've really locked down what us mere mortals can do, all plugins go through code review21:57
pleia2bkerensa: only if you have the ftp info, which we don't21:57
knomebkerensa, won't work, since *we don't have access to files*21:57
bkerensaahh21:57
knomepleia2, the funny thing is that if a plugin has had any signs of being unsafe in its history, it will be rejected21:58
madnick22:00 UTC \:D/21:58
knomepleia2, contrary to plugins that haven't had any problems (yet), and might still pass the IS teams eyes21:59
pleia2not funny, I do the same thing at work (history of problems leads one to suspect that the plugin developers aren't security aware)21:59
pleia2if there have been several releases without issues, maybe..21:59
pleia2madnick: fast clock!22:00
pleia2now it's 22:00 :)22:00
madnickpleia2: :o22:00
knomeyeah well, a problem in the past doesn't mean the developer wasn't security aware22:00
madnick:D22:00
knomemight be connected to something else than the plugin code (only)22:00
pleia2ok, website sprint time!22:00
* knome started gathering developertools/22:00
pleia2so we're moving from our old xubuntu.org on drupal to wordpress, which is currently staged here: wp.xubuntu.com22:00
pleia2https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Sprint has the basics of what we want to do today22:01
pleia2the list of pages is actuall over on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website22:03
GridCube:)22:04
pleia2so I figure we all just dive in where we want, and discuss what we're doing here22:04
knomeif you have a proposal for new content, you can pastebin and either me or pleia2 will take care of getting it up22:05
pleia2knome: we have two links still pointing to my old staging site, do we have a link for "Subscribe to our news via email »"?22:06
knomehumm22:06
* pleia2 updates rss link22:06
* knome checks22:06
knomeupdated the mail-link22:07
knomeGridCube, do you have the top10 list handy?22:07
pleia2ah, wp is warning me that you're editing it22:07
GridCubei wikied it22:07
knomepleia2, not any more22:08
GridCubei have the gdoc too22:08
knomejust paste either22:08
GridCubehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Top1022:08
bkerensaTransposh is a good WP translation tool22:08
pleia2ok, added rss link22:08
knomebkerensa, can you add that to our wiki, so we can check that out?22:08
bkerensakk22:09
knomethanks22:09
knomepleia2, would you add the top 10 faq as article or pagE?22:10
pleia2knome: on http://wp.xubuntu.org/archive/ we have "Quick Links" but the right hand side is otherwise empty22:10
pleia2knome: yep!22:10
pleia2thanks GridCube :)22:10
pleia2do we just want it to be /faq?22:10
knomeerr yep to what?22:10
knome"article or page" -> "yep" ?22:11
pleia2yep to faq22:11
knomeugh22:11
GridCubeif you decide to add it as an article then it should be "oneiric top 10" and the next cycle we do some new ones22:11
knomei'm adding it :D22:11
knomebut do we want it as page or article22:11
knomei'd say article22:11
knomei'd say let's try to have as little pages as possible22:11
pleia2oh, I see what you were asking22:11
knome:)22:11
GridCubeas said, if article it should be Onerici Top 1022:12
knomeGridCube, agreed.22:12
pleia2I was thinking page, but article may make sense since having a history of them would be good22:12
knomepleia2, we can still link to the article even in the footer22:12
* pleia2 nods22:12
knomepleia2, and just change the url of the link once we have a new FAQ22:12
knomeoki22:12
* knome goes adding the article22:12
bkerensaI might suggest Yoast or HeadSpace2 for SEO optimizations and possibly including sitemap in robots.txt and disallow /wp-admin/ 22:13
GridCubeoh, you could add a top10 and link to all the top10's like some search22:13
knomewe can add a top10-tag for them22:13
GridCubelike a tag search22:13
* GridCube highfives knome 22:13
knomepleia2, ugh. headers in post should all be smaller than the .post-title header22:15
pleia2yeah22:15
knomehuh22:16
knomei think it's only h2 that is working oddly22:16
bkerensaWhat is the position on adding sharing buttons either manually or via a plugin? Like Twitter, FB, G+ for news posts?22:17
knomebkerensa, there's been no discussion of that.22:17
knomepleia2, can you suggest a good name for the category for non-news posts?22:18
pleia2hmm22:19
pleia2maybe just "article"?22:19
knomeor "Articles" ?22:19
pleia2sure22:19
pleia2bkerensa: I'd rather avoid them, I find them to be tacky and add load time to pages22:20
pleia2particularly on sites that aren't blogs22:20
bkerensak22:20
knomehttp://wp.xubuntu.org/articles/faq-1110-oneiric/22:22
pleia2\o/22:22
pleia2hmm, the search box follows me22:22
knome? :D22:22
GridCubewhat search box?22:22
pleia2oh, that's just while I'm logged in22:22
pleia2:)22:22
GridCubeit looks empty22:22
GridCubethat white space on the side, it should have pretty pictues22:23
GridCubei can take pictures illustrating FAQ stuff22:23
knomeit will have links22:24
GridCubeok22:24
GridCube:)22:24
knomeit's sidebar that is shared with all the pages22:24
GridCubeyes i see22:24
GridCube:)22:24
GridCubei can see "Quick Links" on firefox, but no on Chromium22:27
beardygnomehi, which pages are we discussing atm?22:29
bkerensaCould reduce page load times by minifying js and css and smushing all images22:29
knomebeardygnome, any ;]22:30
* pleia2 looks on firefox22:30
beardygnomethe link is wp.xubuntu.org, right?22:31
knomey22:31
GridCubestill that, in midori i can see the [Quick links] too22:31
GridCubenot on links2, but i wasnt counting on that one :P22:32
beardygnomeGridCube: i can see "Quick Links" in chromium, ff and midori22:32
GridCubehow weird22:32
beardygnomeit's a different colour in chromium22:33
GridCubehttp://imagebin.org/18481122:33
beardygnomeblack, rather than grey22:33
GridCubeyes, the words under the page title are black on chromium, grey on the rest22:33
beardygnomeoh, we're looking at different pages :-)22:34
pleia2in firefox I get a bit of overflow on my 1024 width screen: http://princessleia.com/temp/xubuntu_firefox_1024.png22:34
pleia2for "Quick Links"22:34
knomehumm22:35
knomewhy aren't these bugs reported earlier?22:35
pleia2I hadn't looked at it in firefox until now22:35
beardygnomein chromium, "Quick Links" appears at the bottom of the page22:36
SiDiwhat is wp.x.o ?22:36
GridCubewordpress22:36
knomeSiDi, a secret.22:36
beardygnomepleia2: i get that overflow in ff on my netbook too22:36
bkerensaHmm no overflow on my FF http://i.imgur.com/RK72V.png22:36
SiDipleia2: your problem comes from the fact that the content has a fixed min width but not the white background part :p22:36
beardygnome"Quick Links" appears at the bottom of the page in midori too....22:37
GridCubeoh, if i resize the window it happens too, 22:37
bkerensa1366x768 is my resolution22:37
SiDipleia2: just throw a couple stones to the website dev and if they survive it should be fixed within a week22:37
knomeSiDi, thanks mate22:37
* SiDi grabs some stones, looking at knome with a sadistic smile.22:37
* knome grabs SiDi's "stones"22:37
pleia2SiDi: we're in the middle of a website sprint, finding this kind of problem for knome to fix is part of what we're working on :)22:38
SiDiI'll allow myself to state two things I see as problems in the FAQ post (3 actually)22:38
bkerensawebsite looks good in Lynx22:38
SiDi1) there should be a menu at the top, helps to find content quicker imho22:38
knomeSiDi, 1) there will be a menu on the sidebar22:39
SiDi2) commands should be displayed with a different font style to be easily differentiated 22:39
knomeSiDi, 2) i'm on that *right now*22:39
SiDi3) some stuff is quite technical, not very educative, 22:39
SiDiknome: you rock22:39
SiDi(no pun intented)22:39
knomeSiDi, 3) so? that's what the users come asking from us.22:39
pleia2these faq are directly collected from IRC22:40
pleia2(thanks GridCube!)22:40
beardygnomeis "Quick Links" supposed to be a link?22:40
SiDiknome: which users? :) the ones who can find their way to here, imo, may be a subset of those able to find the website22:40
SiDiso its interesting to make sure that these users find their information, but that at the same time it can be served to the rest of website users22:40
pleia2they are the frequently asked questions from IRC22:40
SiDi(ok, no idea what their profile and competences in CS are, and how to do that :p just speculatingà)22:41
pleia2we don't really have a mechanism for figuring out what other people are asking22:41
GridCubelol i found quick links on chromium  http://imagebin.org/18481422:41
SiDi"In Xfce 4.8" font size bigger than h1 and h2 sizes.22:42
pleia2I think that's the same issue knome mentioned earlier22:43
SiDi(now that i'm happy having made noise and annoyed knome i'll go work too... good luck to everybody working)22:43
pleia2hah, thanks SiDi 22:43
beardygnomeshouldn't "In Xfce 4.8" be the same size as "In Xfce 4.6"?22:45
knomebeardygnome, yes. i was just testing.22:45
beardygnomeand just use the colour to highlight the first one?22:45
GridCubeknome, on faq6 you should add "be aware that allacarte tries to pull half of unity/compiz with it, you *HAVE* to use --no-install-recommends"22:46
beardygnomeknome: i think we should explain why it has to be done like this and that they shouldn't use synaptic / software centre etc22:47
beardygnomeknome: personally, i'd have them smaller than that22:48
knomebeardygnome, me too. that's the problem me and SiDi, and now you, noticed.22:48
* GridCube knows he should have to had worked on this previously to now :(22:48
beardygnomei don't think they should be bigger than the questions22:48
knomebeardygnome, that's fixed locally, and i'll push that to LP later today, and it will be pulled to production as soon as somebody from IS has time22:49
knomeGridCube, yes :P22:49
SiDiknome: i wanna do a MSc of psychology :(22:49
knomehttp://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_sprint/code.png22:51
beardygnomei'd still make the blue text smaller22:52
knomeyes, that will be made smaller too :P22:52
knomejust ignore that in that shot22:52
SiDii'd use light grey bg / some dark font (maybe slightly "ice blue", but dark?) so that it's less disruptive22:53
SiDihere these dark squares just catch the eye and make it harder to focus on a phrase22:53
knomeSiDi, are you sure, would YOU really use tat?22:54
pleia2on the front page we have xubuntu with thunar, how many images should we page through? what apps to showcase?22:54
pleia2(remember, it's a small image :))22:54
knomesomething like 5 might be optimal22:54
knome10 is too much22:54
knomepeople will never get to the last images22:54
pleia2sounds good22:54
SiDiknome: maybe not the font fg color (althought i'm curious how it'd look), but yeah22:55
SiDimaybe i didnt explain my idea clearly tho22:55
knomehttp://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_sprint/code-2.png22:56
knomeSiDi, you know i'm just teasing you?22:56
SiDiknome: i like that. 22:56
beardygnomei like that too22:56
knomeooohhh, the SiDi approves22:56
SiDii'd like a " blue" fg font, but not the same as the normal text, just something "bluer" to have a better contrast with the slightly darker bg22:57
SiDithat was my idea :D22:57
* SiDi hugs knome.22:57
SiDi(the that was my idea referring to my directly previous sentence*)22:57
knomesomebody willing to write something for about/ ?22:58
knomethere is ideas on the wiki22:58
olbihello22:58
* GridCube is afraid of his ugly ugly engresh22:58
GridCube:D hi olbi 22:58
knomewe can make pleia2 proof-read it22:59
pleia2yes, I can proof read22:59
pleia2replacing current text, or modifying?23:00
GridCubeI was saying the other day, olbi, that i was up to translate the top10 to spañish, and i was sure you would want to do a translation too :D just to have more content n the site23:00
knomepleia2, i think it would be mostly appending23:01
beardygnomeknome: what do you want writing, there's already a lot of text there23:01
olbiGridCube, you mean my natove lang?23:01
knomeWhat is Xubuntu?23:01
knomeWhat is Ubuntu?23:01
knomeHow does Xubuntu differ from Ubuntu?23:01
knomeWhat is Xfce?23:01
knomeHow does (X)ubuntu differ from OSX/Windows? 23:01
olbinative*23:01
GridCubeolbi, :) yes ofcourse23:01
olbiGridCube, ok :)23:01
beardygnomewhy is the about page so narrow?23:01
knomenarrow?23:02
SiDiGridCube: where are you from in spain?23:02
GridCubeso beardygnome you do the /about?23:02
GridCubeSiDi, :) no, im from argentina23:02
beardygnomewhen do you need it for?23:02
olbiI actually translate Xfce files and try to Geany soon :]23:02
knomebeardygnome, asap :]23:02
GridCubeyes i knew that :D23:03
knomebeardygnome, but not like, in the next 10 minutes or even today...23:03
GridCubenot about geany tho :P23:03
beardygnomeok, i'll do that23:03
knomebeardygnome, thanks!23:03
SiDiGridCube: oh okey, sorry :p23:03
GridCube:D np23:03
knomebeardygnome, you can use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Drafts to work on it23:03
beardygnomeok23:04
olbiI wonder, why so many programs for GTK+ are type in C, not in C++ :]23:05
knomeolbi, can you continue in -offtopic?23:05
olbiok sorry23:05
knomenp23:05
knomepleia2, with which browser did you have the overlapping issue?23:05
GridCubeall of them23:06
GridCubejust resize the window23:06
pleia2knome: firefox on a small screen (1024x600 resolution)23:06
knomehmm.23:06
knomei'm unable to reproduce.23:06
pleia2on an article23:07
beardygnomeknome: i can confirm the issue on my netbook23:07
knomepleia2, ah!23:07
pleia2sorry, pages are ok23:07
knomegotcha..23:07
knomei wonder what that is about23:08
* knome goes looking23:08
pleia2anyone have thoughts on how we want the mirrors to be listed? http://wp.xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/23:10
pleia2I think it looks ok like that23:11
knomewhich?23:11
knomeLTS or natty23:11
pleia2natty, but probably both23:11
pleia2on the old site they were styled the same way23:11
olbiwe need last 18 months supported and LTS :) 23:12
olbiI think so23:12
GridCubei would like that >torrents are preffered" be a link23:12
knomeyes, but they are different to show a few options to style them23:12
GridCubeor that just below it its shown a big >Torrent Downloads23:12
GridCubeand then the list23:12
knomewhat about iso country codes?23:13
GridCubenah23:13
knomeFI, US, PL, GE23:13
olbinah23:13
beardygnomeknome: onei23:13
knomeric?23:14
beardygnomeknome: oneiric is current version23:14
beardygnomenot natty23:14
GridCube^^^23:14
knomebeardygnome, yeah. that's copied to that site while natty was current23:14
* GridCube has noticed the wiki say natty too23:14
knomeGridCube, didn't fix it though?23:15
beardygnomewe should state the advantages of using a close mirror, so people know why it helps23:15
* GridCube didn't knew if he should had touch the base wiki page without asking23:16
beardygnomesomething like "this will give you a faster download"23:16
knomebeardygnome, well, we can't really promise that...23:16
GridCubebeardygnome, sue23:16
pleia2I think people will naturally click one near theme23:16
knomeGridCube, could've told somebody too23:16
pleia2them23:16
knomeyeah.23:16
GridCube:P i did23:17
GridCubejust now23:17
beardygnomeknome: so what's the advantage of using the mirrors then?23:17
knomebeardygnome, they *can* give you better speeds. and without mirrors, the central server would have a huge load23:18
GridCubeless work for main servers23:18
beardygnomeok then, "this should give you a faster download"23:18
GridCube:)23:18
olbiOk, I go sleep when we start translate page?23:20
knomeolbi, once a translation plugin is installed23:20
knomeolbi, no idea when that will happen23:20
olbiso only watch IRC for infos23:20
pleia2ok, we have 4 screenshots on the front page now (instead of one and a giant COF)23:20
knomeolbi, hopefully before precise23:20
knomepleia2, nice ;))23:20
olbibye all :D23:21
GridCube:D23:21
beardygnomevery nice pleia223:22
GridCubebut but i can't clic on them23:23
GridCubeD:23:23
knomeGridCube, you are not supposed to??23:23
pleia2there isn't anything to click to23:23
GridCubewhy?23:23
knomeGridCube, because they are not links23:23
GridCubei want to see screenshots23:23
knomeGridCube, images.google.com23:23
knome;]23:23
GridCubeD: i want official sources!23:24
GridCubescreenshots are elemental23:24
knomei'm just wondering why you haven't raised this issue before23:25
pleia2yeah, we don't have them on the current site either23:25
GridCubebecause i didnt know you had no plans to have a screenshot area23:25
GridCubewell thats bad23:25
knomeerr, it was visible for like months...23:25
knome(the staging site)23:26
pleia2http://xubuntu.org/shots is empty ;)23:26
GridCubeyeah, well, i never occured to me they weren't clikeable, im now trying to see it as someone who's thinking on installing the OS23:26
GridCubeand wants to see how it looks like23:27
GridCubei remember they being clickeable23:27
GridCube...23:27
GridCubemy mind is playing tricks with me23:27
pleia2if someone is willing to maintain it we can talk about it, but it's hard enough to maintain the rest of the screenshots on the site (we updated them for natty, but not for oneiric)23:27
pleia2natty and oneiric look close enough :)23:28
GridCubewe should have a "post your screenshots" and ask people to post theirs23:28
pleia2but no, it was never clickable23:28
madnickcan i help with anything?23:28
pleia2oh nooo, I don't think we want to open ourselves to that23:28
beardygnomeGridCube: i don't think that is a good idea23:28
knomeGridCube, yeah. we asked people to post screenshots for gmb-shimmer. we got 0.23:28
pleia2and having user uploaded content is dangerous23:28
beardygnomepeople could post anything23:29
GridCubeyou just said they where tynier and you made them bigger23:29
GridCubewhen they where tinyer you could clic to make them bigger23:29
GridCubei remember that23:29
knomei can't remember anybody saying that for the screenshot are23:30
knome+a23:30
knomepleia2, is there something madnick could help with?23:30
GridCubewell i don't know23:30
knomei've been focusing on the theme issues23:30
pleia2I'd say everyone can help with content review23:31
pleia2https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website#Pages lists them all23:31
pleia2so just grab the page name and stick it on the end of http://wp.xubuntu.org/23:31
pleia2and start exploring :)23:31
knomewe need a sitemap template23:31
knomeif we want to add a sitemap page23:32
GridCubewell, i remember that on the meetings we discussed adding screenshots a few months ago23:32
pleia2and a mockup of some of the ideas we had for the getxubuntu/ site would be good23:32
knomepleia2, do you have the web developer extension for FF?23:34
GridCubehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2011-07-1723:34
pleia2knome: no, link?23:35
knomehttp://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/23:35
pleia2GridCube: those aren't for a screenshot page, those are the regular screenshots for: http://xubuntu.org/tour and such23:36
GridCubewell yes23:37
beardygnome"Include shots in about/ " is listed in the wiki23:37
knomeyes?23:37
GridCubewhat change does it make to the point?23:37
knomebeardygnome, mmh. that's the idea23:37
knomebeardygnome, or, that was my idea, since a separate shots page is hard to maintain23:37
GridCubeso the images there should link to bigger images23:37
GridCubein /about23:37
GridCubeor wherever23:37
beardygnomei agree23:38
beardygnomeor....23:38
knomethat should probably done with fancybox or something.23:38
beardygnomeclick the images on the home page takes you to /about#screenshots23:38
beardygnome?23:38
knomebeardygnome, i wasn't thinking of adding a separate subtitle for shots, just drop them in here and there23:39
beardygnomeok23:39
beardygnomethought that might be easier to code23:39
knomewe are going to need IS to act on the changes anyway23:40
knomeand at this point we already need some changes23:40
knomeso... doesn't really matter23:40
knomeit's just that i would have hoped this to be raised earlier23:40
knomethe staging site definitely hasn't been any secret23:41
pleia2and this is how the old site has been all along23:41
GridCubeknome, :/ sorry23:42
GridCubepleia2, but aint we changing to a new one?23:42
knomeGridCube, yes, but issues should have been raised against the old site too23:43
knomeGridCube, if you really think that was suboptimal23:43
knomeGridCube, or, during the development, against the new site, and constantly pursuing your ideas23:43
GridCubei figured that, given that the site was being droped anyway, why bother23:43
pleia2it's fine, I'm just surprised that it took until we're about to launch a whole new site to bring up an issue that's been around for years23:43
GridCube:(23:44
GridCubesorry 23:44
knomethe reality is that we are still running the old site23:44
knomemuch could have been done with it alone, too23:44
knomeespecially content-wise23:44
knomethat would have made the transition to the new site smoother23:44
pleia2GridCube: it's ok, that's why we have today, but we can't promise everything will be fixed by launch time at this point23:44
GridCubeactually I've been around here less than 6 months :( i don't know much about things23:44
pleia2we've been working on this for over 6 months already23:44
GridCubewill try to rise my complains earlier now23:45
knomenow we have to care about code *and* content23:45
knomeGridCube, thanks.23:45
pleia2knome: so, quick links, what is going there? will we have them on Pages and Articles?23:45
knomeGridCube, btw, the deadline for submitting ideas about precise is on monday. if you have ideas for it, please add them to the roadmap now, as now is a correct time23:45
pleia2(sorry if you've talked about this in the past, I forget)23:45
knomepleia2, quick links is visible everywhere except frontpage23:46
knomepleia2, that's why this is on the wiki:23:46
knome" Rethink the lower-right space on the frontpage, do we want more links rather than three huge ones? "23:46
beardygnomequick links will appear on the right hand side of the page?23:46
GridCubepleia2, I understand, anyway its just my opinion you dont have to please me, just do what is best for the site23:46
knometo make it even more consistent23:46
knomebeardygnome, yes.23:46
GridCube:)23:46
pleia2knome: ok, so "quick links" would be links to major portions of the site that may be of interest?23:47
beardygnomethat makes the pages very narrow on my netbook23:47
knomepleia2, yeah. and we can add a search box, category listings etc (any widget) there too23:47
knomebeardygnome, there is a min-width set for the content area23:48
knomebeardygnome, the content should be readable23:48
knome(always)23:48
knomethe frontpage needs some love though, on smaller screens23:49
knomebut i've got that mostly covered already23:49
GridCubein /help there should be a link to the tag search of top1023:49
GridCubewith; "Read our most usual questions"23:50
GridCubeor something like tht23:50
pleia2under Online Documentation?23:50
knomepleia2, http://wp.xubuntu.org/articles/tag/faq/23:50
GridCubeyes, or community support23:50
beardygnomehttp://imagebin.org/18482923:51
knomebeardygnome, maybe the shot should be smaller.23:51
pleia2heh, "Tech Support System" links to an old tickets thing that redirects to answers.launchpad.net23:51
knome:P23:52
pleia2we can probably rewrite that to be something like "Answers sites" and include askubuntu.com too23:52
GridCube:)23:52
knomeurgh23:53
GridCubethere is no "strips" background image on midori :P23:56
GridCubeoh, there is23:56
pleia2ok, updated /help23:56
GridCubeit just took a lot of time23:56
GridCubeto load23:56
knomepleia2, we probably should link to /help from the faq article too23:57
GridCubeoh :D quick links is there now for chromiums23:57
pleia2knome: maybe in an introduction to the FAQ?23:57
GridCubeknome, yes, that faq10 is silly XD23:57
pleia2"The following are FAQ, for more help see..."23:58
knomepleia2, question #1023:58
pleia2oh :)23:58
pleia2on it23:58

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