[08:20] <ochosi> madnick: morning, just started working on the lightdm-greeter mockup
[08:32] <madnick> ochosi: awesome :)
[08:33] <ochosi> i'm still thinking of going somewhere in this direction: http://images.derStandard.at/2011/11/03/1319222803137.png
[08:34] <ochosi> i think dropping the "fake panel" on top or bottom – which we always used to have because of gdm – is a rather good idea
[08:34] <ochosi> because we don't really need it anymore
[08:34] <ochosi> and it looks cleaner
[08:35] <ochosi> madnick: btw, do you have the white glowing xubuntu-logo anywhere?
[08:36] <madnick> ochosi: typ i do
[08:36] <madnick> yup*
[08:36] <madnick> 1 sec
[08:36] <ochosi> ty
[08:36] <madnick> ochosi: acctually are you using oneiric?
[08:37] <ochosi> yup
[08:37] <madnick> if you are, its /lib/plymouth/themes/xubuntu-logo/xubuntu-logo.png
[08:37] <madnick> and thats the same as i got :P
[08:37] <ochosi> lol
[08:37] <ochosi> thanks
[08:37] <ochosi> just didn't want to bother searching ;)
[08:38] <madnick> i think knome has an svg
[08:38] <ochosi> png is fine for mockups
[08:38] <madnick> okay
[08:42] <madnick> I ran into some really annoying problems when I attempted to fix the settings dialog for lightdm :P
[08:43] <ochosi> rly, what problems?
[08:43] <madnick> Well, I need the parent to resize my plug window, which it sorta does
[08:44] <madnick> But fixed + resize :(
[08:44] <madnick> The settings window is resizable
[08:45] <ochosi> right, not sure i get the problematic part of being able to resize the window
[08:45] <ochosi> it'll just add scrollbars, no?
[08:46] <ochosi> (if not, i guess you can add an option to your window to enable them)
[08:46] <madnick> No no, if you make the window biggeer
[08:46] <madnick> Instead of smaller
[08:46] <madnick> it would keep its position
[08:46] <madnick> by default
[08:46] <madnick> all the widgets
[08:48] <madnick> (yes, i could manually remap them, but that feels unclean)
[08:50] <ochosi> yeah, but isn't it ok if they keep their position?
[08:50] <ochosi> i mean what would you expect them to do? spread evenly across the gained space?
[08:53] <madnick> ochosi: yes :)
[08:53] <madnick> well 
[08:53] <madnick> technically i'd expect the list view to always be to the right
[08:53] <madnick> thats why I put it on the left :P
[08:53] <ochosi> yeah, but personally i wouldn't consider it a bug
[08:54] <madnick> okay
[08:54] <ochosi> i'm trying to check with other apps in the settings-manager dialog, one sec
[08:54] <ochosi> hm, can't you simply set the box containing the listview to expand?
[08:55] <ochosi> afair that's only a single packing option in gtk2
[08:56] <madnick> not sure if i can when its fixed
[08:57] <madnick> well, if you really do want it like that, i can manually set it up to handle the resize event
[08:58] <ochosi> first draft: http://imagebin.org/184727
[08:58] <madnick> ochosi: because its not really packing on fixed
[08:58] <madnick> :))
[08:58] <ochosi> clicking the avatar would show a dropdown list of available users on the system
[08:58] <ochosi> but you could still enter your username by hand
[08:58] <madnick> i like that idea
[08:59] <ochosi> i'm actually wondering whether that makes any sense though
[08:59] <ochosi> cause without a username on the system you shouldn't be able to log in anyway
[09:00] <madnick> true
[09:00] <ochosi> knome: whenever you're around, what do you think of this? http://imagebin.org/184727
[09:00] <ochosi> hmyeah, you know it makes the whole thing look a bit overcrowded
[09:00] <ochosi> we could do something like fedora does
[09:00] <ochosi> or at least i think they do
[09:01] <ochosi> is the following scenario possible:
[09:02] <ochosi> we only have a user-avatar and name displayed, clicking it shows the dropdown of available users, the only input box is a password-box. on the lower left corner we have "Not listed here?", upon clicking that instead of the user-chooser a simple text-input-box would appear
[09:02] <madnick> sure
[09:02] <ochosi> awesome
[09:02] <ochosi> i think that'd be the behaviour i'd consider best
[09:02] <ochosi> what do you think about it?
[09:03] <madnick> I think, if they are not listed, they do not exist in the user database :P
[09:03] <ochosi> exactly, that's why i'm wondering why we need an input-box for them
[09:04] <ochosi> the "Not listed here?" would be a kinda fallback if for some reason (bug) the username is not available
[09:04] <madnick> yup
[09:04] <ochosi> but anyway, getting more opinions on that is probably a good idea
[09:05] <ochosi> i'll try to adapt my mockup quickly though to fit that scenario, so it's easier to talk about it
[09:05] <madnick> Personally, on an unrelated note, I sorta like the idea of only 1 box :P
[09:05] <madnick> http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/zebra.png
[09:05] <ochosi> yeah, but why enter username by hand?
[09:05] <madnick> its faster :P
[09:05] <madnick> username -> enter -> password -> enter :P
[09:05] <ochosi> not for everyone ;)
[09:06] <madnick> true
[09:06] <ochosi> but we could include some basic keyboard navigation
[09:06] <ochosi> for the user-selection
[09:06] <ochosi> e.g. if your user is preselected in the user-chooser, you only have to: password > enter ;)
[09:06] <ochosi> so it's faster in that case
[09:06] <madnick> :)
[09:09] <madnick> ochosi: i got to go to the store, i'll be back in 20
[09:10] <ochosi> np
[09:13] <ochosi> madnick: http://imagebin.org/184728
[09:13] <ochosi> also: show "real name" instead of "username" in the chooser
[09:14] <ochosi> i mean why else do we even have that property
[09:40] <madnick> ochosi: yup, that sounds good
[09:42] <ochosi> cool
[09:42] <ochosi> btw, i'll migrate my data to my new internal SSD today
[09:42] <madnick> :>
[09:42] <ochosi> meaning i will be out backing up data etc for a while
[09:43] <ochosi> i'm also afraid the migration will take a while
[09:43] <ochosi> (stupid usb2!)
[09:43] <madnick> you got a new laptop? (since the ssd is internal)
[09:43] <ochosi> anyway, after that i'll draw my mockups at high speed! ;)
[09:43] <ochosi> nah, just a two-year old dell xps m1330
[09:43] <ochosi> but a friend of mine got a new laptop so he'll pass on his ssd to me
[09:43] <madnick> ah
[09:43] <ochosi> in return he gets my 500gb internal hdd
[09:44] <madnick> Im gonna get Zenbook ;)
[09:44] <ochosi> sounds awesome
[09:44] <ochosi> looks a bit like a macbook-air clone ;)
[09:44] <madnick> indeed :P
[09:44] <ochosi> but i wouldn't mind getting one myself
[09:44] <madnick> I don't like mac keyboards
[09:44] <madnick> and I rather avoid EFI 
[09:45] <ochosi> guess i haven't used them long enough to be able to tell
[09:45] <ochosi> i'm typing on one of these babies: http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQq-6CcpPj5dNPAmu0wlNPF2XzNPZQpIF-Zu8ASUzrI_UU1tCHtwCGspX3W
[09:46] <madnick> :D:D:D
[09:46] <madnick> I love those!
[09:46] <ochosi> my keyboard is only two years younger than me :)
[09:46] <madnick> They make awsome sounds
[09:46] <ochosi> yup
[09:46] <ochosi> my gf hates that ;)
[09:46] <madnick> :P
[09:46] <madnick> PS/2 :))
[09:46] <ochosi> i sometimes have to switch to my logitech kb when she's around
[09:46] <ochosi> yup
[09:47] <ochosi> although the one i had before was still DIN
[09:47] <ochosi> so it was DIN > PS/2 > USB
[09:47] <ochosi> a nice series of adapters which made it rather error-prone
[09:47] <madnick> lol
[09:47] <ochosi> or in fact: DIN > PS/2 > USB HUB > USB :D
[09:51] <ochosi> so about the greeter: i guess when there is more than one user, the layout should be a bit different
[09:51] <ochosi> scenario1: only one user, you end up exactly at the screen i mocked up
[09:52] <ochosi> scenario2: multiple users, the password-box is hidden, instead there is some kind of "overflow-indicator" that opens the user-list-popup
[09:52] <ochosi> does that make sense to you?
[09:52] <ochosi> (i can do a mockup of scenario2 with an open user-list-popup btw)
[09:53] <madnick> i suppose :P
[09:53] <madnick> Im not 100% sure
[09:53] <madnick> I know what you mean
[09:53] <madnick> that i know*
[10:00] <ochosi> k, i just added an indicator now, not sure, is that too subtle? http://imagebin.org/184731
[10:00] <ochosi> but i'd really rather not display a huge list of users...
[10:02] <madnick> Hm, how about if you rotated the indicator, > and you could scroll through all the users?
[10:02] <ochosi> you mean keep it in the same place?
[10:02] <ochosi> ah, i think i get what you mean
[10:03] <ochosi> yeah, that's an option
[10:03] <ochosi> but that way you never get an overview over what users you have on your system
[10:03] <ochosi> we could do both though
[10:04] <ochosi> clicking the avatar gives you a small popup
[10:04] <madnick> yup
[10:04] <ochosi> and having the additional triangle to cycle through
[10:04] <ochosi> in fact i think i have a nice idea for the popup
[10:04] <ochosi> but maybe it's too elaborate
[10:05] <ochosi> mainly show avatars with small names underneath them
[10:05] <ochosi> doable?
[10:05] <madnick> Well, I think most people use the login screen as a little protection
[10:05] <madnick> In single user mode
[10:05] <madnick> So they want to get in fast :P
[10:05] <madnick> yes
[10:05] <ochosi> yeah, that's why if there's only one user i'd show the password-field immedialtely
[10:06] <madnick> sorry, i missed that perhaps, im still a bit disoriented since yesterday :P
[10:06] <madnick> But yes, we could show small names
[10:06] <madnick> And avatars
[10:06] <madnick> But ochosi 
[10:07] <madnick> Picking avatars, is something we might concider having in the settings
[10:07] <madnick> Or is that global?
[10:07]  * madnick is not sure
[10:07] <madnick> I mean, picking which one to use
[10:07] <madnick> for lightdm
[10:07] <ochosi> i think you can pick your avatar in the user-settings. it should be global imo
[10:07] <ochosi> i mean the same avatar system-wide
[10:07] <madnick> okay, cool
[10:08] <madnick> const gchar *       lightdm_user_get_image              (LightDMUser *user);
[10:08] <madnick> yeah
[10:08] <ochosi> :)
[10:12] <ochosi> quick one: http://imagebin.org/184732
[10:12] <ochosi> the positioning isn't great, it's mostly to illustrate the idea
[10:12] <madnick> :))
[10:12] <madnick> that looks good
[10:13] <ochosi> i'd probably move it more to the bottom, so that you can still see the avatar-button clicked
[10:13] <ochosi> but something along the lines of this
[10:13] <ochosi> and maybe trim the usernames in this list
[10:13] <ochosi> or add a scrollbar?
[10:13] <ochosi> oh, different idea...
[10:14] <ochosi> when clicking the avatar, the whole black login-box gets replaced by that popup
[10:14] <ochosi> and upon clicking/choosing an avatar you get back to the login-window
[10:14] <ochosi> that'd maybe feel better than a popup
[10:53] <madnick> ochosi: i like that idea :)
[10:53] <ochosi> i have developed it a bit further in the last few minutes
[10:53] <ochosi> but the backup-copying makes my gimp rather useless, far too laggy... :(
[10:54] <madnick> :(
[10:54]  * ochosi hopes it's done soon
[10:54] <ochosi> too many small files, those keep the cpu busy
[10:54] <madnick> how much stuff do you have? :P when i do a reinstall of stuff like that, its usllay < 200MB :P
[10:55] <ochosi> lucky you
[10:55] <ochosi> i have 40gb photos, 60gb of music and quite a few movies (~ 200gb)
[10:55] <ochosi> but the movies i won't keep i think
[10:55] <ochosi> i'll just delete most of them
[10:56] <madnick> :P
[10:57] <ochosi> (because i've seen them, archiving them doesn't make too much sense imo)
[10:57] <ochosi> that's what the cloud is for anyway
[10:58] <madnick> yup
[11:08] <ochosi> ok, just to illustrate what i've been thinking about: there'd only be two screens, the normal login screen for one user and this chooser: http://imagebin.org/184736
[11:08] <ochosi> you'd get to that by clicking the avatar or the >
[11:09] <ochosi> the "Not listed here?" would only appear in this context, not when already entering a password == already having selected a user
[11:09] <ochosi> opinions?
[11:09] <madnick> looks nice :)
[11:09] <ochosi> again i didn't care too much about the positioning
[11:09] <ochosi> it's just to illustrate the idea
[11:10] <ochosi> (also: my backup is still running, so drawing isn't that easy)
[11:10] <madnick> 3 per line seems like a good idea
[11:11] <madnick> because default
[11:11] <madnick> user other user guest 
[11:11] <madnick> if you are 2 users
[11:11] <madnick> that is
[11:11] <madnick> so, it wouldnt give a scroll unless more than 3
[11:12] <ochosi> yeah, though the 3 per line was more by accident than by concept :)
[11:13] <ochosi> but i guess it makes sense
[11:14] <ochosi> the main thing is that nothing pops up anymore
[11:14] <ochosi> which i think is visually more pleasant
[11:15] <ochosi> so maybe we can wait at this stage for knome to give some input/feedback before carrying on too much
[11:15] <madnick> yeah
[11:16] <ochosi> it's a rather clean design already: two viewmodes, one for the user-chooser, one for login
[11:18] <madnick> yep
[11:18] <madnick> Website Sprint at 23:00 my time? :o
[11:19] <ochosi> iirc yourtime==mytime
[11:19] <madnick> yup!
[11:19] <ochosi> guess so, not sure
[11:19] <ochosi> :)
[11:20] <ochosi> i can't be there anyway, saturday night i have other things to do ;)
[11:20] <mr_pouit> knome: ah, something to add to the roadmap could be a better ui for xfce4-display-settings, to be able to set the outputs' positions ;>
[11:20] <ochosi> mr_pouit: that'd be awesome! would you be the assignee? ;)
[11:21] <ochosi> but anyway, you could add it to the wiki roadmap and we can try to figure that out later
[11:22] <mr_pouit> ochosi: I would have done it already if I knew how to code that ;>
[11:23] <ochosi> lol
[11:23] <mr_pouit> (I only rewrote the code behind to work with randr 1.2, not the ui)
[11:23] <ochosi> maybe we should talk to stephen about it, at least he knows how to position different wallpapers on different screens
[11:23] <mr_pouit> yeah, he mailed jeromeg and me about reusing that for xfce4-display-settings
[11:24] <ochosi> well, i'd be all for it!
[11:24] <mr_pouit> but I don't know if he really wants to take that workitem ;>
[11:24] <ochosi> yeah, especially connected with the timeframe
[11:24] <ochosi> and it seems he's still renovating
[11:26] <ochosi> yippie, almost done with my backup (only music has to be copied, so 60gb)
[12:15] <ochosi> madnick: quick question: does lightdm set any session-things in oneiric? for a friend of mine it changes the screen-resolution to something odd
[12:15] <ochosi> just looking for who the bad "guy" is and want to rule out lightdm :)
[12:15] <madnick> yes, lightdm sets the session
[12:16] <madnick> but i dont know about resolutions :\
[12:16] <madnick> that sounds odd
[12:17] <ochosi> where is lightdm's config file located?
[12:18] <madnick> ochosi: /etc/lightdm
[12:18] <madnick> /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf
[12:18] <ochosi> k, thanks, i'll have a quick look into it
[12:18] <ochosi> more likely it's a session thing i guess...
[12:40] <knome> what's the user settings dialog? i think me menu is crapped... so where can i get the default menu file too?
[12:42] <knome> mr_pouit, hahah, lol, okay... do you think it's overly elaborate or kind of trivialish? :P
[12:44] <madnick> hi knome
[12:44] <madnick> have you had the chance to look at the drafts?
[12:45] <knome> yeah
[12:45] <ochosi> yes knome, did you have the chance already? :)
[12:45] <knome> i just read through the backlog
[12:45] <ochosi> righty
[12:45] <knome> i'm wondering about having any scrollbars
[12:45] <ochosi> i could've given you a quick summary as well
[12:45] <ochosi> but nvm
[12:45] <knome> i think a simple list would be better
[12:45] <knome> like a dropdown
[12:45] <knome> i'm also wondering how useful avatars really are
[12:46] <knome> how many uses them anyway?
[12:46] <knome> do YOU have set an avatar?
[12:46] <madnick> well, it have not really worked until now :P
[12:47] <knome> madnick... one thing about blueprints :D
[12:47] <ochosi> in fact ubuntu has this avatar-setting integrated in their/our installer
[12:47] <knome> madnick, can you set your nick as [dr-madnick] as that's your *launchpad* nickname which needs to be linked
[12:48] <madnick> ochosi: we do too
[12:48] <madnick> knome: yeah
[12:48] <madnick> in the blueprints itself+
[12:48] <madnick> ?*
[12:48] <knome> yeah
[12:49] <ochosi> madnick: that's why i wrote "their/our"
[12:49] <knome> after that, where do you set it?
[12:49] <madnick> [dr-madnick] Design the graphical user interface: INPROGRESS
[12:49] <knome> and can somebody please pastebin me the default app menu for oneiric
[12:49] <knome> madnick, yes
[12:50] <madnick> done
[12:50] <knome> thanks
[12:50] <ochosi> knome: i think avatars are useful in general, and as i said, ubuntu almost forces you to set one at install-time
[12:50] <madnick> https://launchpad.net/~madnick
[12:51] <madnick> that doesnt exist
[12:51] <madnick> but i cant use it anyways :(
[12:51] <knome> madnick, exactly. that was throwing error :)
[12:51] <knome> madnick, maybe contact the lp admins
[12:51] <madnick> yup
[12:53] <madnick> i really dont like the word around for the right-side view + resize
[12:53] <madnick> because it needs to resize horozonally aswell
[12:53] <madnick> if it doesnt it just looks wierd :P
[12:54] <madnick> Gtk.Box (?) :|
[12:55] <madnick> work around*
[13:12] <ochosi> knome: any other feedback on the general look of the greeter?
[13:13] <knome> i'm also not sure about the "window" being 100% solid (not transparent at all), but othewise i think it's fine.
[13:13] <knome> and maybe use a bit less curved corners
[13:14] <ochosi> yeah, those can all be figured out
[13:14] <ochosi> but in general i'd prefer to only have this box and not an additional panel like we always had
[13:14] <ochosi> i mean just for accessibility and power-man it's a bit too much to add a panel imo
[13:16] <ochosi> about the user-switcher, yeah, at first i was also thinking about a simple dropdown, but on the other hand the avatar-thing might be nice and useful
[13:17] <knome> yeah
[13:17] <knome> ochosi, if it brings scrollbars, i'm kind of reluctant
[13:17] <ochosi> it could also be a popup
[13:17] <knome> ochosi, scrollbar in a dropdown box however... it's not that bad
[13:17] <ochosi> i had a design for that at first
[13:17] <knome> what if you had 200 users?
[13:17] <ochosi> yeah, imagine a dropdown with 200 users ;)
[13:18] <knome> with scrollbar that's possible
[13:18] <ochosi> well the advantage of the stacked avatars would be that you'd have 3 per line
[13:19] <ochosi> we could even offer both in the end
[13:19] <ochosi> also: the dark frame is rather minimal/small at the moment, i'd probably make it larger in the end
[13:21] <knome> yeah, hard to say how it turns out to be
[13:22] <ochosi> k, so let's keep both options in mind?
[13:22] <ochosi> also: you're fine with showing the real-name?
[13:23] <ochosi> (and show the username as fallback, i should add)
[13:24] <madnick> Real Name
[13:24] <madnick> (username)
[13:24] <madnick> wait
[13:25] <madnick> i guess that wouldnt fit very well
[13:25] <ochosi> madnick: could we show a simple-list-popup if there's more than 3 users?
[13:25] <madnick> we could
[13:25] <ochosi> knome: what do you think about that? ^
[13:26] <knome> i like the idea of "Real Name (username)" ...
[13:26] <knome> the username usually isn't very long :P
[13:26] <ochosi> true
[13:26] <knome> simple-list-popup as in?
[13:26] <ochosi> we still might have to trim them
[13:26] <ochosi> well, simple-list-popup as in: text-only list of usernames
[13:27] <ochosi> or even of "Realname (username"ys
[13:27] <ochosi> meh
[13:27] <ochosi> :)
[13:29] <knome> what would it look like?
[13:29] <knome> avatar + rn(user) ?
[13:29] <knome> <br />
[13:29] <knome> repeat;
[13:29] <ochosi> without the avatar, just rn(user)<br>
[13:30] <ochosi> to control the overflow better and to make the list shorter
[13:30] <ochosi> (short in terms of pixels)
[13:31] <knome> mm
[13:31] <ochosi> i can quickly draw it
[13:31] <knome> yeah, could work, but wouldn't that mean showing avatars anywhere was BLEH?
[13:31] <knome> just add small versions of the avatars :P
[13:31] <ochosi> yeah, better :)
[13:32] <knome> imo we don't need to show huge avatars anywhere
[13:32] <knome> just something like 20px tall
[13:32] <knome> =~ 1 line-height
[13:32] <ochosi> well, maybe 48px in the login-screen, that'd be kinda nice
[13:32] <knome> + a bit more
[13:32] <ochosi> i'd show the selected username a bit larger than a normal line
[13:33] <ochosi> as you could see in one of the mockups
[13:33] <knome> madnick, you good in optimizing python? :P
[13:33] <madnick> ochosi: how do i scale a selection in gimp?
[13:33] <ochosi> madnick: put it on a separate layer
[13:33] <madnick> knome: depends :P
[13:34] <knome> madnick, https://launchpad.net/launchpad-work-items-tracker
[13:36] <ochosi> very quick: http://imagebin.org/184741
[13:36] <ochosi> i like the idea with the small line-height avatars in the simple-list a lot btw
[13:36] <knome> yup
[13:36] <madnick> knome: i'd say I have quite a few thing todo already, so adding something more might be bad for the current items :P
[13:36] <knome> ;]
[13:36] <knome> okay
[13:36] <knome> np with that
[13:36] <knome> just asking
[13:37] <madnick> I do expect to have working items soon however, because im doing it constantly, but I rather not take any chances at this stage, perhaps I can do more things later
[13:37] <ochosi> yeah, sounds good
[13:38] <madnick> just a heads up
[13:38] <madnick> avatars will litterally scale 
[13:38] <madnick> so smaller avatars = look wierd probably
[13:39] <ochosi> yeah, i don't think we should care about that :)
[13:44] <knome> bbl
[13:49] <madnick> hi GridCube 
[13:49] <GridCube> hi madnick 
[13:50] <madnick> ochosi: when you are ready, i could implement this and we can see how it works out, on a real computer/vm
[13:51] <GridCube> hows you lightdm configuration program going? added an avatar option yet? and a change your background box?
[13:51] <ochosi> madnick: cool, i'll try to get it done today
[13:51] <madnick> GridCube: well, thats greeter options
[13:51] <GridCube> oh
[13:51] <madnick> GridCube: which means that they are not the same for all greeters (avatar is tho)
[13:52] <madnick> but avatar is changable, but i dont know where :)
[13:52] <madnick> users / groups :P
[13:52] <ochosi> i think in the user-settings (main-menu > system > users and groups)
[13:52] <GridCube> its fun because when i was installing xubuntu it recognized i have a webcam and asked to take me a picture for the greeter, but it never used it
[13:52] <madnick> why isnt user settings in the settings manager?
[13:53] <ochosi> yeah, it's not really used up to now in xubuntu
[13:53] <ochosi> madnick: settings-manager is xfce-upstream, so only their stuff is inside
[13:53] <ochosi> (or mostly)
[13:53] <madnick> i see
[13:53] <GridCube> oh in users and groups it shows the picture it took, but in the greeter it does not
[13:55] <madnick> what is the user / group maanger called?
[13:55] <GridCube> users admin?
[13:55] <GridCube> users-admin
[13:55] <madnick> thanks
[13:56] <GridCube> sorry for adding more job to your inbox :P
[14:05] <ochosi> ok, deleting my local hdd now
[14:05] <ochosi> (hopefully) see you later
[14:05] <GridCube> D:
[14:05] <GridCube> good luck
[14:05] <ochosi> ty
[14:25] <holstein> anyont aware of a bug for clicking on downloaded .debs ?
[14:25] <holstein> anyone*
[14:25]  * holstein searching....
[14:25] <GridCube> what kind of bug?
[14:26] <holstein> like "clicking on downloaded .deb doesnt work"
[14:28] <holstein> this is not unlike it...https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/788953
[14:29] <GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/868188
[14:29] <GridCube> http://www.linuxnov.com/internal-error-during-package-installation-using-ubuntu-software-center-on-ubuntu-11-10/
[14:30] <holstein> the .deb seems fine... i used dpkg -i
[14:35] <GridCube> holstein, see that last link i pasted
[14:39] <holstein> GridCube: yeah... i have the package installed now, and i didnt get an error message 
[14:40] <holstein> i just clicked the .deb from the browser and a *tiny* software center opened, went grey and crashed
[14:40] <GridCube> yes, i got some problems with debs myself
[14:40] <holstein> then, i clicked on it from the */Downloade folder and something similar happened, though the software center wasnt tiny
[17:50] <ochosi> madnick: which mockup is the most important for you? the login view? or the chooser?
[17:53] <madnick> ochosi: well, the technical aspect of it
[17:54] <madnick> so the chooser i guess
[17:54] <madnick> unless you plan to make something 
[17:54] <madnick> that is even more technical requiring :P
[17:54] <ochosi> nah, not really
[17:55] <madnick> basically: if its visual only, i dont need it yet
[17:55] <madnick> but if its a feature
[17:55] <madnick> i need it .P
[17:55] <ochosi> ok, well if you can do the basic visuals of what i posted earlier that'd be a good starting point
[17:55] <madnick> yup!
[17:56] <ochosi> the chooser would be this simple popup, basically a scrollable listview with: avatar|rn(username)
[17:56] <madnick> ochosi: it would be great if you could export the graphics :P 
[17:56] <ochosi> sure, do you want the messy xcf or individual graphics?
[17:57] <madnick> if the xcf has it all, i can take that :)Ä
[17:57] <ochosi> and: are you painting everything with pixmaps or what toolkit are you using
[17:57] <madnick> html :)
[17:57] <ochosi> right :)
[17:57] <ochosi> was mainly wondering about stuff like the login-button
[17:57] <ochosi> because it's just a mockup, not a very perfect button. maybe better to redraw it before you put it there
[17:57] <ochosi> and i guess you'd need a hover-effect for that as well
[17:59] <madnick> that be cool :)
[17:59] <ochosi> ok, i'll start by sending you the xcf and after you created an initial version it should be easy to replace the individual graphics anyway, right?
[18:00] <madnick> sure
[18:00] <madnick> yes*
[18:00] <ochosi> k, mind to pm me your email-address?
[18:01] <madnick> there
[18:02] <ochosi> sent
[18:03] <madnick> hm
[18:03] <madnick> it doesnt appear :P
[18:04] <madnick> there we go
[18:04] <ochosi> k :)
[18:04] <ochosi> for a moment i thought i sent it to someone else ;)
[18:04] <EagleScreen> hello
[18:04] <ochosi> hi
[18:05] <EagleScreen> I think that Software Origins woulb be better under the System menu, not Configuration menu, it is a few messed for me
[18:05] <knome> mr_pouit, "Use maybe-ubiquity" <- is that high or essential, or do you care about it at all?
[18:05] <madnick> ochosi: ill look into this right away, however: i need your opinion on something i did, give me 10 minutes
[18:05] <madnick> if you can
[18:05] <madnick> :P
[18:05] <ochosi> madnick: sure, np
[18:05] <madnick> Then after that i can begin on this
[18:05] <ochosi> madnick: i'll be around for another 30
[18:05] <madnick> ok cool
[18:06] <ochosi> knome: sorry that i can't join your website sprint tonight, but a friend of mine is visiting from a different county
[18:06] <knome> ochosi, no problem. we'll just assign all the items left after the sprint to you.
[18:06] <ochosi> lol
[18:06] <ochosi> thanks
[18:06] <knome> np
[18:06] <mr_pouit> knome: No iead, I don't know why I'm the assignee :]
[18:06] <knome> mr_pouit, lol
[18:07] <knome> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/720652
[18:07] <knome> that's reported by you??
[18:08] <mr_pouit> yeah, but I didn't really track it, I think charlie was taking care of it at that time
[18:08] <knome> right.
[18:08] <ochosi> where is charlie anyway? did he drop out entirely now?
[18:08] <knome> nope
[18:09] <knome> he said he's going to be online more later in this month
[18:09] <ochosi> ah ok, that's good
[18:09] <knome> ochosi, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-xubuntu-bluebird-gtk3-port
[18:10] <EagleScreen> currently in Xubuntu 11.10, blueman want to open nautilus to browse a phone via bluetooth
[18:10] <EagleScreen> but nautilus is not installed (and it shouldn't)
[18:10] <knome> EagleScreen, i suppose file a bug in blueman
[18:10] <ochosi> knome: thanks, i guess there are no other workitems in that spec :)
[18:10] <knome> ochosi, yeah, i suppose
[18:10] <EagleScreen> it is already filed, but i dont see activity
[18:11] <mr_pouit> no, there's already a bug against xubuntu-default-settings for that (blueman)
[18:11] <knome> mr_pouit, but?
[18:11] <mr_pouit> #882621
[18:11] <mr_pouit> I haven't had time to look at it, that's all
[18:11]  * knome kicks ubottu 
[18:11] <knome> bug #882621
[18:12] <knome> mr_pouit, is it exo- or mimetype-problem? any idea at all?
[18:13] <mr_pouit> the default configuration of blueman has to be changed (by shipping another one in xubuntu-default-settings)
[18:14] <knome> huh?
[18:14] <knome> if you install xubuntu and then ubuntu, isn't that reverted back to opening nautilus then?
[18:15] <knome> mr_pouit, re: maybe-ubiquity... is that blocking anything? eg. if we don't get it in, we still can provide usable environment?
[18:15] <knome> mr_pouit, what is it about anyway??
[18:15] <mr_pouit> <entry name="browse_command" mtime="1276424823" type="string">
[18:15] <mr_pouit> 		<stringvalue>Thunar obex://[%d]</stringvalue>
[18:15] <mr_pouit> 	</entry>
[18:16] <mr_pouit> this is a gconf setting that needs to be overridden
[18:16] <madnick> ochosi: problem, i cant record my screen O_o
[18:16] <mr_pouit> and if you use ubuntu with xubuntu-default-settings installed, then yes, it will try to open Thunar
[18:16] <knome> mr_pouit, a-ha. can't that be exo-file-manager ?
[18:16] <knome> or sth...
[18:16] <knome> wouldn't that make sense
[18:17] <ochosi> madnick: right, hm, why's that? :)
[18:17] <mr_pouit> exo-open, yeah, why not
[18:17] <knome> because then it would be an infinite war between thunar and nautilus
[18:17] <madnick> ochosi: i think its because im in a vm
[18:17] <mr_pouit> knome: (maybe-ubiquity: it's to have the same nice live cd menu as other variants)
[18:18] <knome> mr_pouit, would you be able to work on it this cycle?
[18:18] <mr_pouit> knome: there's already an infinite war, nautilus will screw up the desktop by default (take it over)
[18:18] <knome> mr_pouit, the reason you are assignee was that you reported the bug and i thought you wanted to pursue that
[18:18] <ochosi> madnick: can't you record outside the vm and that'll show what's inside the vm as well?
[18:18] <knome> mr_pouit, yeah, i understand, but even more reason to point to exo-open i suppose...
[18:19] <madnick> ochosi: yes :|
[18:19] <madnick> ffs
[18:19] <madnick> :D
[18:19] <madnick> Im quite stupid
[18:19] <ochosi> ah, everyone is blocked at times ;)
[18:20] <ochosi> and you seem to sleep little lately
[18:20] <knome> bug #752886
[18:22] <EagleScreen> 752886 also affects me
[18:22] <ochosi> it affects everyone, it's a question of what we decide, not really a bug
[18:22] <ochosi> but feel free to add your opinion to the bugreport ;)
[18:25] <EagleScreen> does thunar support browsing obex:// ?
[18:25] <madnick> ochosi: ok here we go :) http://www.madnick.se/~madnick/ldm.ogg
[18:25] <mr_pouit> EagleScreen: with the right gvfs backends installed, yes (I don't think I'd put a broken command in my settings, even for fun :p)
[18:26] <madnick> ochosi: basically, what i did is: I made it so that its not fixed anymore, except the left, so that the resize works
[18:26] <knome> imo 752886 is more about wishlist than actual "bug" affecting...
[18:26] <madnick> but i still forgot the border + bold
[18:26] <madnick> :(
[18:27] <GridCube> madnick, :) pretty cool
[18:27] <ochosi> madnick: looks great!
[18:27] <madnick> ok good
[18:28] <madnick> I'll implement it then, and i wont forget the borders :)
[18:28] <ochosi> cool!
[18:28] <madnick> and perhaps i shouldnt list all users either O_o
[18:28] <ochosi> yeah
[18:28] <ochosi> that was another thing i wanted to ask you about
[18:29] <madnick> :)
[18:32] <madnick> btw ochosi, perhaps ill implement the greeter stuff tomorrow, since its the website sprint today
[18:32] <madnick> i can implement the functionallity today, but not the graphics
[18:32] <ochosi> awesome
[18:32] <ochosi> we can talk in the evening tomorrow
[18:32] <madnick> okay cool
[18:32] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/other/droidsans10-droidmono10.png
[18:33] <knome> hands up those who think sans mono 10 has worse readability than sans 10
[18:33] <madnick> o/
[18:33] <knome> really?
[18:33] <madnick> no
[18:33] <madnick> i read that as
[18:33] <madnick> sorry
[18:33] <knome> :P
[18:33] <knome> so which one has better readability
[18:33] <madnick> mono!
[18:34] <knome> yes
[18:34] <EagleScreen> regarding Bluetooth browsing, there is common bug in Ubuntu and Xubuntu, I cannot browse and I obtain "Connection refused", but Bluetooth browsing works very well in Kubuntu (KDE + Bluedevil) for the same hardware
[18:34] <EagleScreen> the connection refused issue is common for blueman and gnome-bluetooth
[18:35] <EagleScreen> what does they share?
[18:38] <GridCube> http://imagebin.org/184775
[18:40] <ochosi> k, got to go, have a nice evening everyone!
[18:40] <knome> ochosi, you too!
[18:41] <ochosi> (and good luck with the website sprint)
[18:41] <knome> thanks
[18:41] <madnick> cya ochosi 
[18:44] <knome> Lionel, will you commit this change for Precise? Thanks.
[18:44] <knome> ^ from the comments of #752886
[19:27] <mr_pouit> [xubuntu-team] Create a draft for default Conky layout for discussion and possible inclusion
[19:27] <mr_pouit> grr
[19:27] <knome> what?
[19:28] <mr_pouit> (come one, we're not a random custom iso built by someone in a forum who includes all the apps he can think about))
[19:28] <knome> lol
[19:28] <knome> nope, we're not
[19:28] <knome> don't take it too seriously yet.
[19:28] <knome> i want to investigate it
[19:29] <knome> it's probably going to be postponed unless we have a killer idea and time to execute it
[19:31] <knome> meh.
[19:31] <GridCube> hem?
[19:31] <knome> moving the appearance items under one parent blueprint didn't help making the dependency tree much readable
[19:34] <GridCube> oh, those things never look good
[19:35] <knome> it's not about looking good, it's about text size being big enough to be readable
[19:36] <GridCube> :P
[19:36] <GridCube> im being extremely obnoxious lately, i apologize for that,
[19:41] <knome> no problem. if you think you can't be nothing but obnoxious at times, you can also choose to take a break :)
[19:41] <astraljava> knome: Was that a hint?
[19:41] <astraljava> I'll get me coat.
[19:42] <knome> lol
[19:42] <knome> nope.
[19:42] <knome> not for you at least ;)
[19:42] <knome> well generally really
[19:42] <mr_pouit> huhuhu :>
[19:42] <knome> there are times when all of us feel like leaving FOSS completely
[19:42] <knome> then it might be better to take a break
[19:42] <knome> mr_pouit, hehe
[19:42] <knome> mr_pouit, so, now that i know you're not idle
[19:42] <astraljava> Yeah, about the time when jussi joined this community.
[19:43] <knome> mr_pouit, what should i do with the kbdleds item?
[19:43] <knome> astraljava, lol
[19:43] <knome> that made me laugh out loud, literally
[19:44] <mr_pouit> knome: I'm not very happy with the plugin in the current state (I only looked at the latest tarball: http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-kbdleds-plugin/snapshot/xfce4-kbdleds-plugin-0.0.6.tar.bz2), and it's a big mess inside =]
[19:44] <knome> mmh.
[19:45] <knome> do you think it would be saner to postpone it to P+1 than try to get it in the repositories while still broken?
[19:45] <astraljava> Speak of the devil...
[19:45] <knome> astraljava, lols
[19:45] <jussi> bwahhahahahaha
[19:45] <jussi> astraljava: sane? nah...
[19:45] <knome> jussi monitors all the *buntu* channels via some bots? :P
[19:46] <jussi> Im sitting next to him irl...
[19:46] <knome> hahah
[19:46] <knome> right
[19:46] <knome> astraljava, is that true?
[19:46] <knome> i mean, he could be lying. and trying to get away from monitoring the channels.
[19:47] <astraljava> No, I don't what he's on about.
[19:47] <mr_pouit> knome: I'll recheck it regularly until FF (if it's still not clean at that time, then let's go for P+1)
[19:47] <astraljava> know*
[19:47] <jussi> bastard
[19:47] <knome> mr_pouit, do you think it needs a blueprint? :P :P
[19:47] <knome> <- lazy
[19:47] <astraljava> You really think I'd let him in the premises?!
[19:47] <knome> yeah, i was thinking about that.
[19:47] <GridCube> mr_pouit, knome wouldnt it be better to tell that to the maintainer?
[19:47] <knome> GridCube, please go ahead
[19:48] <GridCube> will do so
[19:48] <knome> thanks
[19:48] <astraljava> I am here!!! and I will always win!!! bwahaha! (from Jussi)
[19:48] <mr_pouit> GridCube: the git branch has been cleaned already
[19:48] <jussi>  hehe
[19:48] <mr_pouit> (but he hasn't made a new release yet)
[19:48] <jussi> I win :D
[19:48] <knome> :O :O
[19:48] <knome> maybe ask him to make a new release then
[19:49] <mr_pouit> knome: xubuntu-default-settings 12.04.0 uploaded, I'll let you the fun of moving work items to 'DONE'
[19:49] <knome> GridCube, can you get back to this once you have more information in the next meeting you can attend? :P
[19:49] <knome> mr_pouit, lol, the fun
[19:49] <knome> i've been hacking with the BPs the last three days or so
[19:49] <knome> meh
[19:49] <GridCube> that should be next sunday?
[19:49] <knome> but since i'm at it...
[19:49] <mr_pouit> knome: well, my mailbox tells me you're having a lot of fun ;D
[19:50]  * mr_pouit hides
[19:50] <knome> mr_pouit, i'm sure  :D
[19:50] <madnick> hehe 18 new emails
[19:50] <knome> mr_pouit, i suppose that was for the terminal font
[19:51] <GridCube> you want me to try to contact the developer for then, or since then?
[19:52] <knome> contact when you can, and tell us what was the outcome in the next meeting since you know something neq
[19:52] <knome> *new
[19:52] <GridCube> :)
[19:52] <GridCube> will do then
[19:52] <knome> thanks
[19:58] <mr_pouit> I don't remember if I said it already, but ristretto 0.3.0 is now in precise
[19:59] <GridCube> oh :) nice
[19:59] <knome> nice
[19:59] <knome> mr_pouit, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-p-xubuntu-default-image-viewer :P
[19:59] <GridCube> i like ristretto 0.3.0
[19:59] <knome> mr_pouit, you probably want the last action item? ;]
[20:00] <mr_pouit> ristretto is still set as the default handler for pictures
[20:00] <knome> it is??
[20:01] <knome> i thought that was set to gthumb in oneiric
[20:01] <mr_pouit> look in /usr/share/xubuntu/applications/defaults.list
[20:01] <mr_pouit> nobody asked me to change =]
[20:01] <knome> i probably have that set to gthumb, since ristretto is unusable
[20:01] <knome> lol
[20:01] <knome> right...
[20:01] <knome> fsst
[20:01] <knome> i just created the blueprint
[20:01] <knome> and there is no way to DELETE it
[20:06] <knome> mr_pouit, you probably should filter mails starting with "[Blueprint" from "pasi@shimmerproject.org"
[20:06] <knome> :P
[20:08] <mr_pouit> hehe
[20:09] <knome> there is now a blueprint for every item on the roadmap with an assignee \o/
[20:11] <pleia2> my poor inbox
[20:11] <knome> pleia2, sorry :(
[20:11] <pleia2> :)
[20:11] <knome> i filtered those mails myself
[20:11] <knome> ;)
[20:11] <knome> so... mmh
[20:11] <pleia2> I will start
[20:11] <pleia2> hehe
[20:12] <madnick> im just happy to get email!
[20:12] <knome> haha
[20:14] <mr_pouit> that'd be great if we release 12.04 without all these stupid little bugs (such as "oops, we forgot to add gvfs-backends by default" in oneiric)
[20:14] <knome> huh
[20:14] <knome> do you want a blueprint for those so i will track them?
[20:14] <knome> (is there many of them)
[20:14] <mr_pouit> the problem is that we don't know them ;>
[20:14] <knome> heh
[20:15] <knome> well, we know the gvfs-backend bug ;)))
[20:15] <mr_pouit> yeah, but I mean: we don't know them before the release ;D
[20:15] <knome> mmh. i see what you mean
[20:16] <knome> i hope that too
[20:16] <knome> there shouldn't be much surprises though
[20:16] <knome> as we have a good roadmap
[20:16] <knome> and (any) planning (at all)!!!
[20:16] <pleia2> fwiw, livecd testing goes over very well at jams I run, if we could add more comprehensive testing for livecd maybe it would catch more?
[20:16] <pleia2> the current livecd test script is pretty basic
[20:17] <GridCube> mr_pouit, will we sheep gvfs-backends on precise?!
[20:17] <knome> we won't touch sheeps
[20:17] <pleia2> sheep++
[20:17] <madnick> sheeps are awesome :]
[20:17] <astraljava> We won't, but jussi will.
[20:18] <pleia2> what if I promise to walk and feed them
[20:18] <knome> astraljava, ouch
[20:18] <jussi> sheep!!!
[20:18] <knome> jussi, get your dirty tumblers off of sheep
[20:18]  * GridCube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNMq8XS4LhE
[20:19] <knome> ermmmm
[20:22] <knome> GridCube, i'm not really sure if that was appropriate.
[20:22] <GridCube> :( sorry
[20:27] <knome> np. just remember all the #xubuntu channels are family friendly
[20:29] <knome> mr_pouit, maybe we can use the larger text size in the "accessibility" app set if we decide to do those
[20:44] <mr_pouit> maybe, but then we'll need another set of xubuntu-default-settings, etc.
[20:45] <knome> i undestand.
[21:49] <bkerensa> pleia2 said the sprint is starting soon so I came quickly :)
[21:49] <pleia2> :)
[21:52]  * knome hopes the website stays up all the sprint ;]
[21:52] <pleia2> hehe
[21:52] <bkerensa> :P
[21:52] <pleia2> will be a good test of wordpress
[21:52] <knome> i'm not worried of wordpress
[21:52] <bkerensa> LOL
[21:53] <knome> i'm worried of the canonical server
[21:53] <bkerensa> yeah
[21:53] <pleia2> oh, the old site?
[21:53] <bkerensa> Wordpress is fine :D
[21:53] <pleia2> there have been problems with fridge since the move to WP :\
[21:53] <knome> right
[21:53] <knome> i haven't had any problems with our wp installation
[21:53] <bkerensa> pleia2: What kind of problems? :D I spend epic amounts of time working with WP
[21:53] <pleia2> akgraner found someone in IS to hold accountable if it dies though :)
[21:53] <knome> maybe fridge uses some weird plugins?
[21:53] <knome> pleia2, eh? :D
[21:54] <pleia2> it's just high traffic so it gets resource wedged sometimes
[21:54] <knome> mmhm
[21:54] <bkerensa> pleia2: W3 Total Cache + Cloudflare would solve that
[21:54] <pleia2> bkerensa: I don't run it, it's within canonical's wp infrastructure
[21:55] <bkerensa> pleia2: What does that mean? :) Does that mean they handle all administration of the install?
[21:55] <pleia2> boo, upgrade on my other system is not done yet
[21:55] <pleia2> bkerensa: yes
[21:55] <bkerensa> pleia2: Oh well then that makes sense :P
[21:55] <knome> well not "all administration", but definitely anything that concerns touching files :P
[21:55] <pleia2> yeah, we just get wp logins
[21:55] <knome> we do have admin accounts though
[21:56] <bkerensa> knome: Kind of silly if they dont know how to run a good install ;)
[21:56] <knome> phew :)
[21:56] <knome> any plugins being solutions can be debatable
[21:56] <bkerensa> knome: Well if you have admin access you can drop in W3 Total Cache which powers the highest traffic WP sites on the web
[21:56] <bkerensa> :D
[21:56] <knome> bkerensa, nope, when you can't get any files installed.
[21:57] <knome> admin access only concerns wp, not the server
[21:57] <bkerensa> Admin access on a WP install though allows you to go to > Plugins > Add New > Upload Plugin
[21:57] <pleia2> there was a pretty high profile case of the community servers getting hacked several years ago, since then they've really locked down what us mere mortals can do, all plugins go through code review
[21:57] <pleia2> bkerensa: only if you have the ftp info, which we don't
[21:57] <knome> bkerensa, won't work, since *we don't have access to files*
[21:57] <bkerensa> ahh
[21:58] <knome> pleia2, the funny thing is that if a plugin has had any signs of being unsafe in its history, it will be rejected
[21:58] <madnick> 22:00 UTC \:D/
[21:59] <knome> pleia2, contrary to plugins that haven't had any problems (yet), and might still pass the IS teams eyes
[21:59] <pleia2> not funny, I do the same thing at work (history of problems leads one to suspect that the plugin developers aren't security aware)
[21:59] <pleia2> if there have been several releases without issues, maybe..
[22:00] <pleia2> madnick: fast clock!
[22:00] <pleia2> now it's 22:00 :)
[22:00] <madnick> pleia2: :o
[22:00] <knome> yeah well, a problem in the past doesn't mean the developer wasn't security aware
[22:00] <madnick> :D
[22:00] <knome> might be connected to something else than the plugin code (only)
[22:00] <pleia2> ok, website sprint time!
[22:00]  * knome started gathering developertools/
[22:00] <pleia2> so we're moving from our old xubuntu.org on drupal to wordpress, which is currently staged here: wp.xubuntu.com
[22:01] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Sprint has the basics of what we want to do today
[22:03] <pleia2> the list of pages is actuall over on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website
[22:04] <GridCube> :)
[22:04] <pleia2> so I figure we all just dive in where we want, and discuss what we're doing here
[22:05] <knome> if you have a proposal for new content, you can pastebin and either me or pleia2 will take care of getting it up
[22:06] <pleia2> knome: we have two links still pointing to my old staging site, do we have a link for "Subscribe to our news via email »"?
[22:06] <knome> humm
[22:06]  * pleia2 updates rss link
[22:06]  * knome checks
[22:07] <knome> updated the mail-link
[22:07] <knome> GridCube, do you have the top10 list handy?
[22:07] <pleia2> ah, wp is warning me that you're editing it
[22:07] <GridCube> i wikied it
[22:08] <knome> pleia2, not any more
[22:08] <GridCube> i have the gdoc too
[22:08] <knome> just paste either
[22:08] <GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Top10
[22:08] <bkerensa> Transposh is a good WP translation tool
[22:08] <pleia2> ok, added rss link
[22:08] <knome> bkerensa, can you add that to our wiki, so we can check that out?
[22:09] <bkerensa> kk
[22:09] <knome> thanks
[22:10] <knome> pleia2, would you add the top 10 faq as article or pagE?
[22:10] <pleia2> knome: on http://wp.xubuntu.org/archive/ we have "Quick Links" but the right hand side is otherwise empty
[22:10] <pleia2> knome: yep!
[22:10] <pleia2> thanks GridCube :)
[22:10] <pleia2> do we just want it to be /faq?
[22:10] <knome> err yep to what?
[22:11] <knome> "article or page" -> "yep" ?
[22:11] <pleia2> yep to faq
[22:11] <knome> ugh
[22:11] <GridCube> if you decide to add it as an article then it should be "oneiric top 10" and the next cycle we do some new ones
[22:11] <knome> i'm adding it :D
[22:11] <knome> but do we want it as page or article
[22:11] <knome> i'd say article
[22:11] <knome> i'd say let's try to have as little pages as possible
[22:11] <pleia2> oh, I see what you were asking
[22:11] <knome> :)
[22:12] <GridCube> as said, if article it should be Onerici Top 10
[22:12] <knome> GridCube, agreed.
[22:12] <pleia2> I was thinking page, but article may make sense since having a history of them would be good
[22:12] <knome> pleia2, we can still link to the article even in the footer
[22:12]  * pleia2 nods
[22:12] <knome> pleia2, and just change the url of the link once we have a new FAQ
[22:12] <knome> oki
[22:12]  * knome goes adding the article
[22:13] <bkerensa> I might suggest Yoast or HeadSpace2 for SEO optimizations and possibly including sitemap in robots.txt and disallow /wp-admin/ 
[22:13] <GridCube> oh, you could add a top10 and link to all the top10's like some search
[22:13] <knome> we can add a top10-tag for them
[22:13] <GridCube> like a tag search
[22:13]  * GridCube highfives knome 
[22:15] <knome> pleia2, ugh. headers in post should all be smaller than the .post-title header
[22:15] <pleia2> yeah
[22:16] <knome> huh
[22:16] <knome> i think it's only h2 that is working oddly
[22:17] <bkerensa> What is the position on adding sharing buttons either manually or via a plugin? Like Twitter, FB, G+ for news posts?
[22:17] <knome> bkerensa, there's been no discussion of that.
[22:18] <knome> pleia2, can you suggest a good name for the category for non-news posts?
[22:19] <pleia2> hmm
[22:19] <pleia2> maybe just "article"?
[22:19] <knome> or "Articles" ?
[22:19] <pleia2> sure
[22:20] <pleia2> bkerensa: I'd rather avoid them, I find them to be tacky and add load time to pages
[22:20] <pleia2> particularly on sites that aren't blogs
[22:20] <bkerensa> k
[22:22] <knome> http://wp.xubuntu.org/articles/faq-1110-oneiric/
[22:22] <pleia2> \o/
[22:22] <pleia2> hmm, the search box follows me
[22:22] <knome> ? :D
[22:22] <GridCube> what search box?
[22:22] <pleia2> oh, that's just while I'm logged in
[22:22] <pleia2> :)
[22:22] <GridCube> it looks empty
[22:23] <GridCube> that white space on the side, it should have pretty pictues
[22:23] <GridCube> i can take pictures illustrating FAQ stuff
[22:24] <knome> it will have links
[22:24] <GridCube> ok
[22:24] <GridCube> :)
[22:24] <knome> it's sidebar that is shared with all the pages
[22:24] <GridCube> yes i see
[22:24] <GridCube> :)
[22:27] <GridCube> i can see "Quick Links" on firefox, but no on Chromium
[22:29] <beardygnome> hi, which pages are we discussing atm?
[22:29] <bkerensa> Could reduce page load times by minifying js and css and smushing all images
[22:30] <knome> beardygnome, any ;]
[22:30]  * pleia2 looks on firefox
[22:31] <beardygnome> the link is wp.xubuntu.org, right?
[22:31] <knome> y
[22:31] <GridCube> still that, in midori i can see the [Quick links] too
[22:32] <GridCube> not on links2, but i wasnt counting on that one :P
[22:32] <beardygnome> GridCube: i can see "Quick Links" in chromium, ff and midori
[22:32] <GridCube> how weird
[22:33] <beardygnome> it's a different colour in chromium
[22:33] <GridCube> http://imagebin.org/184811
[22:33] <beardygnome> black, rather than grey
[22:33] <GridCube> yes, the words under the page title are black on chromium, grey on the rest
[22:34] <beardygnome> oh, we're looking at different pages :-)
[22:34] <pleia2> in firefox I get a bit of overflow on my 1024 width screen: http://princessleia.com/temp/xubuntu_firefox_1024.png
[22:34] <pleia2> for "Quick Links"
[22:35] <knome> humm
[22:35] <knome> why aren't these bugs reported earlier?
[22:35] <pleia2> I hadn't looked at it in firefox until now
[22:36] <beardygnome> in chromium, "Quick Links" appears at the bottom of the page
[22:36] <SiDi> what is wp.x.o ?
[22:36] <GridCube> wordpress
[22:36] <knome> SiDi, a secret.
[22:36] <beardygnome> pleia2: i get that overflow in ff on my netbook too
[22:36] <bkerensa> Hmm no overflow on my FF http://i.imgur.com/RK72V.png
[22:36] <SiDi> pleia2: your problem comes from the fact that the content has a fixed min width but not the white background part :p
[22:37] <beardygnome> "Quick Links" appears at the bottom of the page in midori too....
[22:37] <GridCube> oh, if i resize the window it happens too, 
[22:37] <bkerensa> 1366x768 is my resolution
[22:37] <SiDi> pleia2: just throw a couple stones to the website dev and if they survive it should be fixed within a week
[22:37] <knome> SiDi, thanks mate
[22:37]  * SiDi grabs some stones, looking at knome with a sadistic smile.
[22:37]  * knome grabs SiDi's "stones"
[22:38] <pleia2> SiDi: we're in the middle of a website sprint, finding this kind of problem for knome to fix is part of what we're working on :)
[22:38] <SiDi> I'll allow myself to state two things I see as problems in the FAQ post (3 actually)
[22:38] <bkerensa> website looks good in Lynx
[22:38] <SiDi> 1) there should be a menu at the top, helps to find content quicker imho
[22:39] <knome> SiDi, 1) there will be a menu on the sidebar
[22:39] <SiDi> 2) commands should be displayed with a different font style to be easily differentiated 
[22:39] <knome> SiDi, 2) i'm on that *right now*
[22:39] <SiDi> 3) some stuff is quite technical, not very educative, 
[22:39] <SiDi> knome: you rock
[22:39] <SiDi> (no pun intented)
[22:39] <knome> SiDi, 3) so? that's what the users come asking from us.
[22:40] <pleia2> these faq are directly collected from IRC
[22:40] <pleia2> (thanks GridCube!)
[22:40] <beardygnome> is "Quick Links" supposed to be a link?
[22:40] <SiDi> knome: which users? :) the ones who can find their way to here, imo, may be a subset of those able to find the website
[22:40] <SiDi> so its interesting to make sure that these users find their information, but that at the same time it can be served to the rest of website users
[22:40] <pleia2> they are the frequently asked questions from IRC
[22:41] <SiDi> (ok, no idea what their profile and competences in CS are, and how to do that :p just speculatingà)
[22:41] <pleia2> we don't really have a mechanism for figuring out what other people are asking
[22:41] <GridCube> lol i found quick links on chromium  http://imagebin.org/184814
[22:42] <SiDi> "In Xfce 4.8" font size bigger than h1 and h2 sizes.
[22:43] <pleia2> I think that's the same issue knome mentioned earlier
[22:43] <SiDi> (now that i'm happy having made noise and annoyed knome i'll go work too... good luck to everybody working)
[22:43] <pleia2> hah, thanks SiDi 
[22:45] <beardygnome> shouldn't "In Xfce 4.8" be the same size as "In Xfce 4.6"?
[22:45] <knome> beardygnome, yes. i was just testing.
[22:45] <beardygnome> and just use the colour to highlight the first one?
[22:46] <GridCube> knome, on faq6 you should add "be aware that allacarte tries to pull half of unity/compiz with it, you *HAVE* to use --no-install-recommends"
[22:47] <beardygnome> knome: i think we should explain why it has to be done like this and that they shouldn't use synaptic / software centre etc
[22:48] <beardygnome> knome: personally, i'd have them smaller than that
[22:48] <knome> beardygnome, me too. that's the problem me and SiDi, and now you, noticed.
[22:48]  * GridCube knows he should have to had worked on this previously to now :(
[22:48] <beardygnome> i don't think they should be bigger than the questions
[22:49] <knome> beardygnome, that's fixed locally, and i'll push that to LP later today, and it will be pulled to production as soon as somebody from IS has time
[22:49] <knome> GridCube, yes :P
[22:49] <SiDi> knome: i wanna do a MSc of psychology :(
[22:51] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_sprint/code.png
[22:52] <beardygnome> i'd still make the blue text smaller
[22:52] <knome> yes, that will be made smaller too :P
[22:52] <knome> just ignore that in that shot
[22:53] <SiDi> i'd use light grey bg / some dark font (maybe slightly "ice blue", but dark?) so that it's less disruptive
[22:53] <SiDi> here these dark squares just catch the eye and make it harder to focus on a phrase
[22:54] <knome> SiDi, are you sure, would YOU really use tat?
[22:54] <pleia2> on the front page we have xubuntu with thunar, how many images should we page through? what apps to showcase?
[22:54] <pleia2> (remember, it's a small image :))
[22:54] <knome> something like 5 might be optimal
[22:54] <knome> 10 is too much
[22:54] <knome> people will never get to the last images
[22:54] <pleia2> sounds good
[22:55] <SiDi> knome: maybe not the font fg color (althought i'm curious how it'd look), but yeah
[22:55] <SiDi> maybe i didnt explain my idea clearly tho
[22:56] <knome> http://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/web_sprint/code-2.png
[22:56] <knome> SiDi, you know i'm just teasing you?
[22:56] <SiDi> knome: i like that. 
[22:56] <beardygnome> i like that too
[22:56] <knome> ooohhh, the SiDi approves
[22:57] <SiDi> i'd like a " blue" fg font, but not the same as the normal text, just something "bluer" to have a better contrast with the slightly darker bg
[22:57] <SiDi> that was my idea :D
[22:57]  * SiDi hugs knome.
[22:57] <SiDi> (the that was my idea referring to my directly previous sentence*)
[22:58] <knome> somebody willing to write something for about/ ?
[22:58] <knome> there is ideas on the wiki
[22:58] <olbi> hello
[22:58]  * GridCube is afraid of his ugly ugly engresh
[22:58] <GridCube> :D hi olbi 
[22:59] <knome> we can make pleia2 proof-read it
[22:59] <pleia2> yes, I can proof read
[23:00] <pleia2> replacing current text, or modifying?
[23:00] <GridCube> I was saying the other day, olbi, that i was up to translate the top10 to spañish, and i was sure you would want to do a translation too :D just to have more content n the site
[23:01] <knome> pleia2, i think it would be mostly appending
[23:01] <beardygnome> knome: what do you want writing, there's already a lot of text there
[23:01] <olbi> GridCube, you mean my natove lang?
[23:01] <knome> What is Xubuntu?
[23:01] <knome> What is Ubuntu?
[23:01] <knome> How does Xubuntu differ from Ubuntu?
[23:01] <knome> What is Xfce?
[23:01] <knome> How does (X)ubuntu differ from OSX/Windows? 
[23:01] <olbi> native*
[23:01] <GridCube> olbi, :) yes ofcourse
[23:01] <olbi> GridCube, ok :)
[23:01] <beardygnome> why is the about page so narrow?
[23:02] <knome> narrow?
[23:02] <SiDi> GridCube: where are you from in spain?
[23:02] <GridCube> so beardygnome you do the /about?
[23:02] <GridCube> SiDi, :) no, im from argentina
[23:02] <beardygnome> when do you need it for?
[23:02] <olbi> I actually translate Xfce files and try to Geany soon :]
[23:02] <knome> beardygnome, asap :]
[23:03] <GridCube> yes i knew that :D
[23:03] <knome> beardygnome, but not like, in the next 10 minutes or even today...
[23:03] <GridCube> not about geany tho :P
[23:03] <beardygnome> ok, i'll do that
[23:03] <knome> beardygnome, thanks!
[23:03] <SiDi> GridCube: oh okey, sorry :p
[23:03] <GridCube> :D np
[23:03] <knome> beardygnome, you can use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website/Drafts to work on it
[23:04] <beardygnome> ok
[23:05] <olbi> I wonder, why so many programs for GTK+ are type in C, not in C++ :]
[23:05] <knome> olbi, can you continue in -offtopic?
[23:05] <olbi> ok sorry
[23:05] <knome> np
[23:05] <knome> pleia2, with which browser did you have the overlapping issue?
[23:06] <GridCube> all of them
[23:06] <GridCube> just resize the window
[23:06] <pleia2> knome: firefox on a small screen (1024x600 resolution)
[23:06] <knome> hmm.
[23:06] <knome> i'm unable to reproduce.
[23:07] <pleia2> on an article
[23:07] <beardygnome> knome: i can confirm the issue on my netbook
[23:07] <knome> pleia2, ah!
[23:07] <pleia2> sorry, pages are ok
[23:07] <knome> gotcha..
[23:08] <knome> i wonder what that is about
[23:08]  * knome goes looking
[23:10] <pleia2> anyone have thoughts on how we want the mirrors to be listed? http://wp.xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/
[23:11] <pleia2> I think it looks ok like that
[23:11] <knome> which?
[23:11] <knome> LTS or natty
[23:11] <pleia2> natty, but probably both
[23:11] <pleia2> on the old site they were styled the same way
[23:12] <olbi> we need last 18 months supported and LTS :) 
[23:12] <olbi> I think so
[23:12] <GridCube> i would like that >torrents are preffered" be a link
[23:12] <knome> yes, but they are different to show a few options to style them
[23:12] <GridCube> or that just below it its shown a big >Torrent Downloads
[23:12] <GridCube> and then the list
[23:13] <knome> what about iso country codes?
[23:13] <GridCube> nah
[23:13] <knome> FI, US, PL, GE
[23:13] <olbi> nah
[23:13] <beardygnome> knome: onei
[23:14] <knome> ric?
[23:14] <beardygnome> knome: oneiric is current version
[23:14] <beardygnome> not natty
[23:14] <GridCube> ^^^
[23:14] <knome> beardygnome, yeah. that's copied to that site while natty was current
[23:14]  * GridCube has noticed the wiki say natty too
[23:15] <knome> GridCube, didn't fix it though?
[23:15] <beardygnome> we should state the advantages of using a close mirror, so people know why it helps
[23:16]  * GridCube didn't knew if he should had touch the base wiki page without asking
[23:16] <beardygnome> something like "this will give you a faster download"
[23:16] <knome> beardygnome, well, we can't really promise that...
[23:16] <GridCube> beardygnome, sue
[23:16] <pleia2> I think people will naturally click one near theme
[23:16] <knome> GridCube, could've told somebody too
[23:16] <pleia2> them
[23:16] <knome> yeah.
[23:17] <GridCube> :P i did
[23:17] <GridCube> just now
[23:17] <beardygnome> knome: so what's the advantage of using the mirrors then?
[23:18] <knome> beardygnome, they *can* give you better speeds. and without mirrors, the central server would have a huge load
[23:18] <GridCube> less work for main servers
[23:18] <beardygnome> ok then, "this should give you a faster download"
[23:18] <GridCube> :)
[23:20] <olbi> Ok, I go sleep when we start translate page?
[23:20] <knome> olbi, once a translation plugin is installed
[23:20] <knome> olbi, no idea when that will happen
[23:20] <olbi> so only watch IRC for infos
[23:20] <pleia2> ok, we have 4 screenshots on the front page now (instead of one and a giant COF)
[23:20] <knome> olbi, hopefully before precise
[23:20] <knome> pleia2, nice ;))
[23:21] <olbi> bye all :D
[23:21] <GridCube> :D
[23:22] <beardygnome> very nice pleia2
[23:23] <GridCube> but but i can't clic on them
[23:23] <GridCube> D:
[23:23] <knome> GridCube, you are not supposed to??
[23:23] <pleia2> there isn't anything to click to
[23:23] <GridCube> why?
[23:23] <knome> GridCube, because they are not links
[23:23] <GridCube> i want to see screenshots
[23:23] <knome> GridCube, images.google.com
[23:23] <knome> ;]
[23:24] <GridCube> D: i want official sources!
[23:24] <GridCube> screenshots are elemental
[23:25] <knome> i'm just wondering why you haven't raised this issue before
[23:25] <pleia2> yeah, we don't have them on the current site either
[23:25] <GridCube> because i didnt know you had no plans to have a screenshot area
[23:25] <GridCube> well thats bad
[23:25] <knome> err, it was visible for like months...
[23:26] <knome> (the staging site)
[23:26] <pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/shots is empty ;)
[23:26] <GridCube> yeah, well, i never occured to me they weren't clikeable, im now trying to see it as someone who's thinking on installing the OS
[23:27] <GridCube> and wants to see how it looks like
[23:27] <GridCube> i remember they being clickeable
[23:27] <GridCube> ...
[23:27] <GridCube> my mind is playing tricks with me
[23:27] <pleia2> if someone is willing to maintain it we can talk about it, but it's hard enough to maintain the rest of the screenshots on the site (we updated them for natty, but not for oneiric)
[23:28] <pleia2> natty and oneiric look close enough :)
[23:28] <GridCube> we should have a "post your screenshots" and ask people to post theirs
[23:28] <pleia2> but no, it was never clickable
[23:28] <madnick> can i help with anything?
[23:28] <pleia2> oh nooo, I don't think we want to open ourselves to that
[23:28] <beardygnome> GridCube: i don't think that is a good idea
[23:28] <knome> GridCube, yeah. we asked people to post screenshots for gmb-shimmer. we got 0.
[23:28] <pleia2> and having user uploaded content is dangerous
[23:29] <beardygnome> people could post anything
[23:29] <GridCube> you just said they where tynier and you made them bigger
[23:29] <GridCube> when they where tinyer you could clic to make them bigger
[23:29] <GridCube> i remember that
[23:30] <knome> i can't remember anybody saying that for the screenshot are
[23:30] <knome> +a
[23:30] <knome> pleia2, is there something madnick could help with?
[23:30] <GridCube> well i don't know
[23:30] <knome> i've been focusing on the theme issues
[23:31] <pleia2> I'd say everyone can help with content review
[23:31] <pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Website#Pages lists them all
[23:31] <pleia2> so just grab the page name and stick it on the end of http://wp.xubuntu.org/
[23:31] <pleia2> and start exploring :)
[23:31] <knome> we need a sitemap template
[23:32] <knome> if we want to add a sitemap page
[23:32] <GridCube> well, i remember that on the meetings we discussed adding screenshots a few months ago
[23:32] <pleia2> and a mockup of some of the ideas we had for the getxubuntu/ site would be good
[23:34] <knome> pleia2, do you have the web developer extension for FF?
[23:34] <GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2011-07-17
[23:35] <pleia2> knome: no, link?
[23:35] <knome> http://chrispederick.com/work/web-developer/
[23:36] <pleia2> GridCube: those aren't for a screenshot page, those are the regular screenshots for: http://xubuntu.org/tour and such
[23:37] <GridCube> well yes
[23:37] <beardygnome> "Include shots in about/ " is listed in the wiki
[23:37] <knome> yes?
[23:37] <GridCube> what change does it make to the point?
[23:37] <knome> beardygnome, mmh. that's the idea
[23:37] <knome> beardygnome, or, that was my idea, since a separate shots page is hard to maintain
[23:37] <GridCube> so the images there should link to bigger images
[23:37] <GridCube> in /about
[23:37] <GridCube> or wherever
[23:38] <beardygnome> i agree
[23:38] <beardygnome> or....
[23:38] <knome> that should probably done with fancybox or something.
[23:38] <beardygnome> click the images on the home page takes you to /about#screenshots
[23:38] <beardygnome> ?
[23:39] <knome> beardygnome, i wasn't thinking of adding a separate subtitle for shots, just drop them in here and there
[23:39] <beardygnome> ok
[23:39] <beardygnome> thought that might be easier to code
[23:40] <knome> we are going to need IS to act on the changes anyway
[23:40] <knome> and at this point we already need some changes
[23:40] <knome> so... doesn't really matter
[23:40] <knome> it's just that i would have hoped this to be raised earlier
[23:41] <knome> the staging site definitely hasn't been any secret
[23:41] <pleia2> and this is how the old site has been all along
[23:42] <GridCube> knome, :/ sorry
[23:42] <GridCube> pleia2, but aint we changing to a new one?
[23:43] <knome> GridCube, yes, but issues should have been raised against the old site too
[23:43] <knome> GridCube, if you really think that was suboptimal
[23:43] <knome> GridCube, or, during the development, against the new site, and constantly pursuing your ideas
[23:43] <GridCube> i figured that, given that the site was being droped anyway, why bother
[23:43] <pleia2> it's fine, I'm just surprised that it took until we're about to launch a whole new site to bring up an issue that's been around for years
[23:44] <GridCube> :(
[23:44] <GridCube> sorry 
[23:44] <knome> the reality is that we are still running the old site
[23:44] <knome> much could have been done with it alone, too
[23:44] <knome> especially content-wise
[23:44] <knome> that would have made the transition to the new site smoother
[23:44] <pleia2> GridCube: it's ok, that's why we have today, but we can't promise everything will be fixed by launch time at this point
[23:44] <GridCube> actually I've been around here less than 6 months :( i don't know much about things
[23:44] <pleia2> we've been working on this for over 6 months already
[23:45] <GridCube> will try to rise my complains earlier now
[23:45] <knome> now we have to care about code *and* content
[23:45] <knome> GridCube, thanks.
[23:45] <pleia2> knome: so, quick links, what is going there? will we have them on Pages and Articles?
[23:45] <knome> GridCube, btw, the deadline for submitting ideas about precise is on monday. if you have ideas for it, please add them to the roadmap now, as now is a correct time
[23:45] <pleia2> (sorry if you've talked about this in the past, I forget)
[23:46] <knome> pleia2, quick links is visible everywhere except frontpage
[23:46] <knome> pleia2, that's why this is on the wiki:
[23:46] <knome> " Rethink the lower-right space on the frontpage, do we want more links rather than three huge ones? "
[23:46] <beardygnome> quick links will appear on the right hand side of the page?
[23:46] <GridCube> pleia2, I understand, anyway its just my opinion you dont have to please me, just do what is best for the site
[23:46] <knome> to make it even more consistent
[23:46] <knome> beardygnome, yes.
[23:46] <GridCube> :)
[23:47] <pleia2> knome: ok, so "quick links" would be links to major portions of the site that may be of interest?
[23:47] <beardygnome> that makes the pages very narrow on my netbook
[23:47] <knome> pleia2, yeah. and we can add a search box, category listings etc (any widget) there too
[23:48] <knome> beardygnome, there is a min-width set for the content area
[23:48] <knome> beardygnome, the content should be readable
[23:48] <knome> (always)
[23:49] <knome> the frontpage needs some love though, on smaller screens
[23:49] <knome> but i've got that mostly covered already
[23:49] <GridCube> in /help there should be a link to the tag search of top10
[23:50] <GridCube> with; "Read our most usual questions"
[23:50] <GridCube> or something like tht
[23:50] <pleia2> under Online Documentation?
[23:50] <knome> pleia2, http://wp.xubuntu.org/articles/tag/faq/
[23:50] <GridCube> yes, or community support
[23:51] <beardygnome> http://imagebin.org/184829
[23:51] <knome> beardygnome, maybe the shot should be smaller.
[23:51] <pleia2> heh, "Tech Support System" links to an old tickets thing that redirects to answers.launchpad.net
[23:52] <knome> :P
[23:52] <pleia2> we can probably rewrite that to be something like "Answers sites" and include askubuntu.com too
[23:52] <GridCube> :)
[23:53] <knome> urgh
[23:56] <GridCube> there is no "strips" background image on midori :P
[23:56] <GridCube> oh, there is
[23:56] <pleia2> ok, updated /help
[23:56] <GridCube> it just took a lot of time
[23:56] <GridCube> to load
[23:57] <knome> pleia2, we probably should link to /help from the faq article too
[23:57] <GridCube> oh :D quick links is there now for chromiums
[23:57] <pleia2> knome: maybe in an introduction to the FAQ?
[23:57] <GridCube> knome, yes, that faq10 is silly XD
[23:58] <pleia2> "The following are FAQ, for more help see..."
[23:58] <knome> pleia2, question #10
[23:58] <pleia2> oh :)
[23:58] <pleia2> on it