/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/11/20/#ubuntu-ops.txt

pangolin!no pangolin is <reply> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) will be the sixteenth release of Ubuntu. Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784 | Discussion and support in #ubuntu+100:01
ubottuI'll remember that pangolin00:01
knomeoh, he remembers THAT pangolin00:04
knomebut not the other00:04
pangolinwhich other?00:04
knomedon't know.00:07
knomei can't remember the other pangolin either00:07
pangolin:P00:07
pangolin!12.0402:18
ubottuUbuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) will be the sixteenth release of Ubuntu. Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784 | Discussion and support in #ubuntu+102:18
=== mnepton is now known as mneptok
ubottuIn ubottu, vibhav said: !ops is Help! Channel emergency (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - elky, Madpilot, tritium, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, PriceChild,Amaranth, jrib, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, jpds, gnomefreak, bazhang, jussi, Flannel, ikonia, maco, h00k, pangolin, nhandler or Jordan_U!07:16
bazhang...07:17
pangolinno kidding07:17
=== kloeri_ is now known as kloeri
pangolincould someone help out vibhav when he joins here, it's about his mute in #u07:27
pangolinI'm checking BT07:27
vibhavWhen can I be unmuted?07:28
vibhavhello?07:31
pangolinvibhav: if I remove the mute are we going to have the same problems as before that got you muted?07:32
vibhavNo07:33
vibhavI promise07:33
vibhavIll try to , at least07:33
pangolinvibhav: I think a better idea is for you to rejoin when Tm_T is online (you can send him a PM) and talk to him07:35
vibhavI could , but I dont have much time left07:35
vibhavCan't you do it?07:35
pangolinif I see him I will talk to him about removing the mute but you should also send him a pm07:36
vibhavI memoserv  him07:36
pangolinhold on a minuite07:36
pangolinminute*07:36
pangolinvibhav: ok, I will remove the mute but please make sure to follow channel guidelines and please please do not abuse the bot, use common sense :)07:38
vibhavas you wish07:38
vibhavNo07:40
vibhavIrssi: #ubuntu Cannot send to channel07:41
vibhavstill no07:41
pangolinhmm give me a moment07:41
vibhavthanks07:43
Tm_Tuh08:00
ikoniawhy was vibhav messing with hte ops call ?11:30
oCeanapparently he wanted to change 'idleone' to 'pangolin'11:32
ikoniaanother hunt for "thanks then11:33
Myrttiubottu thinks I'm not identified11:35
ubottuMyrtti: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)11:35
Myrttioh shush11:35
Myrttifixed now11:36
oCean<poopdick> as a nick, really?11:36
oCeanand is DCC_SEND banevading?11:37
MyrttioCean: you can ask him to change it if you want, I'm off to get lunch11:37
MyrttioCean: yeah, and just sent an onjoin message11:39
oCeanI'm not op in -ot11:39
Myrttineed food, will look at off fall later11:40
Myrttihe is in #u too11:40
oCeanI see11:41
excrementalistso, oCean said I should join to find out exactly which part of the TOS i've infringed upon to justify a ban,11:47
excrementalistin my politely complaining about ubuntu upgrade from 11.04 -> 11.10 removing my gnome desktop.11:47
excrementalisti do not believe i've sworn, used obscenity as defined by the federal communications commisson of the united states,  nor have i been disruptive.11:48
excrementalisti find it extremely disheartening that oCean is allowed to ban me in the middle of my politely requesting - and receiving - help from 3 channel members with absolutely zero disruption to anyone else.11:49
excrementalisti signed in as poopdick and was getting help under that nick. oCean asked me to change my name, so I changed it to "fecalphallus" and he kicked me. perhaps this is justifiable if i were being disruptive in some manner. i note other users swearing in the channel without receiving any warnings.11:52
excrementalistbut then i change my nick to excrementalist, rejoin, and ask:11:52
excrementalistexcrementalist> oCean, why so humorless.. fecal phallus is a valid - but perhaps witless - expression of angst with the sudden changes to my ubuntu install upon upgrading.11:52
excrementalistand this is grounds for a ban?????????11:52
oCeanAre you claiming you read our CoC and Channel Guidelines?11:52
excrementalisti'm claiming my behavior was not disruptive in any way, and your ban is completely arbitrary. I note you did not reply to my question in the query window, asking if EuroNerd was warned or banned for his language.11:53
excrementalistand, btw i have the ToS open in firefox and im reading as we discuss this.11:54
excrementalistOK so now I've read the code of conduct as well.11:55
excrementalistAgain, I've been nothing but polite, except perhaps in my choice of initial nickname I used to join the channel, and even that is debatable.11:55
ikoniaexcrementalist: your argument that blows huge chunks of rotting excrement.11:56
ikoniais that polite ?11:56
excrementalistthats not what i said11:56
excrementalisti said, <poopdick> zaxonspox, damn, that blows huge chunks of rotting excrement.11:56
excrementalistin response to:11:56
ikoniayour complaiing pile of steaming, rotting waste products11:56
excrementalist<zaxonspox> poopdick didnt checked, but read, that you have to put some work to be able to choose gnome into gdm choose list11:57
ikoniais the way I'm talking to you polite ?11:57
excrementalistikonia, i am indeed relating the concept that, if i have to "put some work to be able to choose gnome into the gdm choose list"11:57
excrementalistthen that is, indeed, a huge pile of rotting excrement11:57
ikoniaexcrementalist: you are failing11:57
ikoniathat is not a polite way to communicate with people11:58
ikoniaI can take that same approach then11:58
excrementalisti was not banned for the above statement11:58
excrementalisti was banned for asking, " excrementalist> oCean, why so humorless.. fecal phallus is a valid - but perhaps witless - expression of angst with the sudden changes to my ubuntu install upon upgrading."11:58
ikoniaexcrementalist: yes, and that is a continuation of above11:59
excrementalistso in other words, to have ones work at customizing a desktop layout removed without warning by an upgrade, is acceptable to you?11:59
ikoniayour language and approach to communication is unacetpable11:59
oCeanexcrementalist: As you might be aware in the meantime, our coc and guidelines comes down to "keep it clean, respectful, family-friendly and professional"11:59
ikoniaif you have to explain it "in other words" it's wrong11:59
oCeanif you don't understand your current behaviour is not acceptable, I would advice you to take some time off to consider this.12:00
oCeanYou can return in a day or 3 and let us know if you can work with the CoC and guidelines provided12:00
excrementalistoCean, and i would use the standards of "family friendly" that you are applying to EuroNerd and others who utilized language in a similar matter12:01
excrementalistwould you like to review the channel logs from the past 24 hours to see just how many times others have used profane language and NOT been even kicked, let alone banned?12:02
oCeanno, not at all12:02
ikoniaworry about yourself12:02
ikoniaeuronerd made no such comments in #ubuntu12:02
excrementalist<EuroNerd> Stanley00, I just installed it and tried to change sth and it completely f#cked up my desktop. Had to spend 20min searching for a solution on the web to restore it.12:02
ikoniaworry about yourself12:03
oCeanexcrementalist: would you like to review the channel logs from the past 24 hours to see just how many users are happily complying with our Coc and guidelines?12:03
excrementalistif my lighthearted comments comparing a disruptive software upgrade to excrement are considered profane, then surely euronerds comment is far more explicit, yet he was not even warned.12:03
excrementalistagain, i came back in the channel with a new nickname "Excrementalist" and attempted to open a lighthearted and jovial discussion with you, oCean, about the fact that my choice of wording was entirely based on having a software upgrade destroy or otherwise eliminate all traces of my efforts spent customizing the gnome desktop.12:04
excrementalistto which you responded with a ban.12:04
excrementalistthat is hardly respectful or professional.12:05
ikoniawell, those are the rules, you can accept them or not use the channel, your call12:05
ikoniacome back as oCean said when you can make up your mind12:05
excrementalistbut i have respected them.12:05
ikonianothing more to discuss12:05
ikoniano - you have not12:05
ikoniathat's just been explained to you with your fecal pile of excriment "style" comments12:06
excrementalisti complied with the request made with the kick.12:06
excrementalisti was kicked due to my choice of language.12:06
excrementalistthe ban was entirely unnecessary.12:06
ikoniaand then came back trying again12:06
ikoniawith "joval" comments12:06
ikoniaclearly not as you came back with the same approach12:06
ikoniawhen you are happy that you can join the channel without such comments or "joval" discussion I don't think there will be a problem12:07
excrementalistthe word is Jovial12:07
excrementalistnot joval12:07
excrementalistjo·vi·al 1. endowed with or characterized by a hearty, joyous humor or a spirit of good-fellowship: a wonderfully jovial host.12:07
ikoniaapologies for a typo, but if that's your concern, I think you can stop wasting our time now and leave12:07
ikoniamy "I" key is sticking due to a bit of lag12:08
ikoniaI suggest you leave now and think about how you interact with people12:08
excrementalisti will be monitoring your ubuntu channel from several hosts over the next week, and watching yours and Ocean's activity as to consistency and impartiality of enforcement of the ToS and CoC.12:09
ikoniathen you will be ban evading and I'll report this to freenode now12:10
excrementalisti will be taking this up with ubuntu channel management in email and/or physical, handwritten letter, as well as freenode staff, also in writing if need be.12:10
excrementalistyou have no idea who i am.12:10
ikoniaFreenode have nothing to do with the channel, you can contact them in #freenode if you want12:10
ikoniaI don't care who you are12:10
ikonialeave the channel pleas.e12:10
excrementalistyour actions in defending this ban are entirely arbitrary and capricious, while i have been - and continue to be - nothing but good natured12:11
ikonialeave the channel please12:11
excrementalistparticularly in my request that if the rules are to be enforced, then they are done so impartially and consistently to all channel users.12:11
ikoniaI suggest someone remove him12:11
ikonialeave the channel please if you want to show you can follow the rules12:11
excrementalistso be it. you will likely be hearing about this from your management staff.12:12
ikoniayou've had the reason explained to you, you've been given the option of returning when you can comply with the rules, you continue to argue12:12
ikoniaok - I look forward to hearing about it from managment staff12:12
ikonialeave the channel and come back when you have thought about how you want to proceed12:12
ikonianow leave the channel please.12:12
excrementalisti have already stated, i was not in noncompliance with the rules upon my return. i was speaking to oCean. he could have replied with a reference to the ToS or CoC.12:12
excrementalistinstead he banned me.12:12
ikoniaok - leave the channel, take it up with mangagment, we are done here12:13
Myrttiexcrementalist: a link to the TOS is given to you when you join the channel12:13
excrementalistthis is hardly professional. and I will be monitoring his and your actions for consistency and impartiality over the next week.12:13
ikoniaexcrementalist: I have informed freenode of your intention to ban evade,12:13
ikoniaexcrementalist: please contact our managment as you have suggested, leave.12:14
Myrttiexcrementalist: while we thrive to be professional, it's all voluntary12:14
excrementalistMyrtti: i understand. and the only thing i've done which was apparently considered unprofessional, was express my disgust at having my work at customizing gnome removed by this upgrade, both in my nick and in exactly one statement in the channel.12:15
ikoniamultiple statments12:15
ikoniaand then a simialr style statement once you where kicked as a warning12:15
ikoniasimilar12:15
ikoniathis has gone on long enough, you've been given chances to comply12:16
excrementalistikonia: there was exactly one statement in the channel for which i was kicked. i came back in asking why i was kicked, and for that i was banned.12:17
ikoniaexcrementalist: I've given you multiple statments you said in the channel, I'll re-paste them for you12:17
excrementalistthat hardly qualifies as "multiple" statements since i had to use the same words to express the question about why i was kicked12:17
ikonia1.)12:17
ikonia11:40 < poopdick> zaxonspox, damn, that blows huge chunks of rotting excrement.12:17
ikonia2.)12:18
ikonia1:41 < poopdick> oCean: i cant speak about the pile of steaming, rotting waste products that unity is compared to gnome?12:18
ikoniaand after you where spoke to and kicked as a warning12:18
ikonia3.) 11:44 < excrementalist> oCean, why so humorless.. fecal phallus is a valid - but perhaps witless - expression of angst with the sudden changes to my ubuntu install upon upgrading.12:18
excrementalistyes and i was only warned about ONE of those first two statements.12:18
excrementalistnot both of them.12:18
ikoniathis is petty12:18
ikoniayou are banned - change your attitude and come back12:19
excrementalistso was the ban for asking why ocean was humorless12:19
ikoniadiscussion over12:19
excrementalistyou note i did not contest the kick12:19
excrementalisti came back in, in full compliance.12:19
ikoniaMyrtti: this guy won't leave or listen and continues to argue, threaten to ban evade, you can waste more time with him or remove him when you grow board, I a have enough of this waste of time12:20
excrementalistnone of this disparaged any user in the channel, nor did it disrupt any users discussions or help they were receiving. the only thing i disparaged with my statements was the upgrade process that destroyed my work in customizing gnome.12:20
excrementalistagain, i came back in the channel with a new nickname, which was oCean's last request to me, to change my nick, and the reason he kicked me in the first place.12:20
Myrttiexcrementalist: ok, here's the beef12:21
Myrttiexcrementalist: as I said to you in #ubuntu earlier, the problems you've experienced in 11.10 stem from the fact that Gnome 2 is *not* supported anymore.12:21
excrementalistand, my gathering statistics on the quality of operator professionalism, consistency and impartiality hardly constitutes ban evading.12:21
Myrttiit's not supported by Gnome Foundation and the developers, so Ubuntu can't support it either12:21
Myrttiother distros will soon move to Gnome 3 as well12:22
Myrttithis topic, however, with all the nuances that involve the subject, is not on topic to #ubuntu, which doesn't take sides and can only suggest alternatives, and we as ops can only ask people to take the discussion of comparing different environments to channels that aren't support only12:23
excrementalistMyrtti, indeed, I thank you again for your polite response to my query, admittedly expressed in an angsty (and perhaps witless) manner. you gave me good information, and i was well on my way to discussing further with zaxonspox about what issues he encountered getting gnome-shell to reappear in the gdm menu.12:23
excrementalistactually i have no problem with gnome 2 being unsupported. i am more than happy to begin the migration to gnome 3. but, since gnome 3 is already in the repository, i am surprised the upgrade process did not detect that i was still using gnome and already NOT using unity for 11.04, and automatically install gnome 3 or at least gnome shell.12:26
Myrttinow going on further with the discussion, #ubuntu aims to be a familyfriendly channel that is strictly support - and especially with the recent influx of users who are disappointed in the functionalities of Gnome3 and/or Unity, it's become a frustrating job to tell our users to move the discussion elsewhere. When your "angsty and perhaps witless)" outburst appeared on the channel with the language you used, people jumped. ...12:26
Myrtti... Bleeped out cussing is frowned upon, and acronyms as well12:26
excrementalisti note the ~/.gnome2 hierarchy is still intact so probably my customizations are still intact12:26
Myrttiwe have a policy that even obfuscated cursing is cursing as we all know what is meant, and so an op asked you to refrain from foul language and to change your nick to something appropriate12:27
MyrttiI'm certain your keyboard is capable of typing a nick that doesn't appear to be chosen just to spite people who have asked you to change it12:27
excrementalistare you saying that the problem is with my current nickname, excrementalist?12:27
MyrttiI see it as a display of an attitude that I'm not happy about12:28
excrementalistBecause really, I was already aware that the issue was the profane nature of the concept of a "fecal phallus." Thats why I changed it to excrementalist.12:28
excrementalistok well, considering that despite my choice of expressions, overall I've maintained a high degree of politeness and decorum about these matters, if I changed my nickname to something entirely different  - and agreed to keep my expressions within the ToS and CoC as I am obviously more than capable of, would the management here be willing to lift the ban???12:30
=== excrementalist is now known as mentalgymnast
Myrttiikonia? I'm happy to let him in12:32
mentalgymnastill even go one further.12:33
=== mentalgymnast is now known as entelechy
ikoniaup to you - I'm not, I find his atittude poor, and his threats to ban evade and "monitor" when he didn't get his way a bad atittude, that said, if you're happy, go for it12:33
Myrttiok, entelechy: there's a catch in all this12:34
entelechyyes?12:34
Myrttiif ikonia or any other op is unhappy with how you behave, the ban is back on and discussing it here will be considerably more difficult12:34
entelechyunderstood.12:34
Myrttido you understand that?12:34
Myrttigood12:34
MyrttioCean?12:36
oCeanIf entelechy is convinced he understands what we've discussed, and under what conditions he can enter again, fine with me12:37
entelechythank you.12:37
Myrttiok, you can try to join now.12:37
entelechyi'd like to point out that the same sort of attention to the minutiae and wording should be applied equally to all users.12:37
entelechyi do not see it as "ban evading" to check to see if the enforcement of these considerations is selective and capricious as it seemed to me here, or consistent and impartial as it should be and hopefully usually is.12:37
Myrttithanks for co-operation12:37
ikoniahere we go again12:37
entelechythanks, im really not trying to be disruptive.12:37
ikoniastill complaining12:37
oCean:(12:37
ikoniascrew it, this guy is not going back in12:38
oCeanattitude is back12:38
entelechyso, to politely request consistency is to be construed as "attitude"??12:38
entelechythis is quite troublesome.12:38
oCeaneven tricked us in believing you understood12:38
entelechyi do understand. quite well indeed.12:39
oCeanno, you don't12:39
oCeannow leave the channel and consider what happened12:39
oCean!appeals > entelechy12:39
ubottuentelechy, please see my private message12:39
entelechyif these rules are to apply to me, they need to apply to EuroNerd too.12:39
ikoniathey apply to every one - and I've told you 3 times, concern yourself with YOURSELF12:40
entelechyive already demonstrated that by changing my nickname, YET AGAIN. it hardly constitutes attitude to make a polite statement that these rules should be consistently applied.12:41
ikoniaI'm doing other things now, bye12:41
ikonia!idle | entelechy12:50
ubottuentelechy: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only; we ask you to part when you have no further business here in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries.12:50
entelechy<ikonia> I'm doing other things now, bye12:50
ikoniacorrect, so please leave the channel now.12:51
entelechy<ikonia> concern yourself with YOURSELF12:51
ikoniathat has nothing to do with anything12:51
entelechyperhaps I should. I'm busy writing several letters to your seniors in ubunti management. good day.12:51
ikoniaplease leave the channel now. you have been told how to appeal your ban,12:51
ikoniagood idea.12:51
entelechygoodbye.12:52
ikoniabye12:52
ikoniahello orated13:20
oratedHello! Can anyone help here?13:20
oratedHi ikonia13:20
ikoniawhat's up ?13:20
ikoniahow can we help13:20
oratedI'm getting abusive pm's from nick monica in #ubuntu13:20
ikoniaI was just looking at that, what sort of thing are you gettin g?13:20
ikonialinks ?13:20
ikoniasorry, are you getting links ?13:21
oratedYes and things like that13:21
ikoniaok, I'll deal with this, thank you for reporting it13:22
oratedI have shared partially what I was getting by PM to you, if you didn't mind that.13:23
oratedThank you13:23
ikoniadelt with13:23
=== jussi01 is now known as Guest44296
IgnacioHi17:02
oCeanHi Ignacio17:02
IgnacioExcuse Me,, Me equivoque de canal17:03
IgnacioI need help:17:03
IgnacioFailed to create window or set video mode SDL error: X11 driver not configured with OpenGL17:03
Ignacio(Speak spanish)17:03
oCean!es | Ignacio17:03
ubottuIgnacio: En la mayoría de canales de Ubuntu se habla sólo en inglés. Si busca ayuda en español o charlar entra en el canal #ubuntu-es. Escribe "/join #ubuntu-es" (sin comillas) y dale a enter.17:03
Ryan_ReynoldsoCean, why the ban?417:29
oCeanI'll be right with you17:31
oCeanRyan_Reynolds: So, I made it quite clear that the #ubuntu channel is not for general discussion, nor for your personal rants against specific developments in ubuntu17:33
oCeanyet you continued in the same manner17:33
Ryan_Reynoldsso asking for assistance in enabling my nvidia driver is a bannable offense?17:34
Ryan_Reynoldsyou're a fuckin retarded mod17:34
oCeanOh, that is going to help you17:34
Myrtti it's a pattern17:34
mneptoki'm very disappointed in Andy Griffith.17:40
oCeanmneptok: yeah, one would expect that he could make a better argument17:41
mneptokand a more genteel, gentlemanly one.17:42
mneptokmaybe things get better after the commercials.17:43
oCean(:17:43
mneptokhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXfQzfl9EQ17:45
Jordan_UWould it be a good idea to register the nick "ubuntu" so that users joining from LiveCDs would be switched to a Guestfoo nick? Or maybe recommend a patch to Ubuntu's Empathy / Xchat configuration to use something like "ubuntu-live-user" instead? Usernames like "ubuntu" kill lastlog.21:15
pangolinGuest nicks make me angry21:16
Jordan_Upangolin: I think you'll agree that they're better than "ubuntu" at least.21:16
pangolina little21:17
Myrttia good idea, I approve21:17
elkymake the patch21:19
Myrttielky: you're opped btw21:31
elkylies, all lies21:33
MyrttiI would actually prefer the plain Guestwhatever nicknames21:34
Myrttiatleast they'd be relatively unique21:34
elkyyeah but it'd be confusing for the users to have their nick change21:34
MyrttiI've never seen it happen with people who use ubuntu as nickname but fairy nuff21:35
ubottuIn ubottu, Resistance said: !l8r is <alias>u21:41

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