[00:01] <pangolin> !no pangolin is <reply> Ubuntu 12.04 LTS (Precise Pangolin) will be the sixteenth release of Ubuntu. Codename announcement here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/784 | Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1
[00:04] <knome> oh, he remembers THAT pangolin
[00:04] <knome> but not the other
[00:04] <pangolin> which other?
[00:07] <knome> don't know.
[00:07] <knome> i can't remember the other pangolin either
[00:07] <pangolin> :P
[02:18] <pangolin> !12.04
[07:17] <bazhang> ...
[07:17] <pangolin> no kidding
[07:27] <pangolin> could someone help out vibhav when he joins here, it's about his mute in #u
[07:27] <pangolin> I'm checking BT
[07:28] <vibhav> When can I be unmuted?
[07:31] <vibhav> hello?
[07:32] <pangolin> vibhav: if I remove the mute are we going to have the same problems as before that got you muted?
[07:33] <vibhav> No
[07:33] <vibhav> I promise
[07:33] <vibhav> Ill try to , at least
[07:35] <pangolin> vibhav: I think a better idea is for you to rejoin when Tm_T is online (you can send him a PM) and talk to him
[07:35] <vibhav> I could , but I dont have much time left
[07:35] <vibhav> Can't you do it?
[07:36] <pangolin> if I see him I will talk to him about removing the mute but you should also send him a pm
[07:36] <vibhav> I memoserv  him
[07:36] <pangolin> hold on a minuite
[07:36] <pangolin> minute*
[07:38] <pangolin> vibhav: ok, I will remove the mute but please make sure to follow channel guidelines and please please do not abuse the bot, use common sense :)
[07:38] <vibhav> as you wish
[07:40] <vibhav> No
[07:41] <vibhav> Irssi: #ubuntu Cannot send to channel
[07:41] <vibhav> still no
[07:41] <pangolin> hmm give me a moment
[07:43] <vibhav> thanks
[08:00] <Tm_T> uh
[11:30] <ikonia> why was vibhav messing with hte ops call ?
[11:32] <oCean> apparently he wanted to change 'idleone' to 'pangolin'
[11:33] <ikonia> another hunt for "thanks then
[11:35] <Myrtti> ubottu thinks I'm not identified
[11:35] <Myrtti> oh shush
[11:36] <Myrtti> fixed now
 as a nick, really?
[11:37] <oCean> and is DCC_SEND banevading?
[11:37] <Myrtti> oCean: you can ask him to change it if you want, I'm off to get lunch
[11:39] <Myrtti> oCean: yeah, and just sent an onjoin message
[11:39] <oCean> I'm not op in -ot
[11:40] <Myrtti> need food, will look at off fall later
[11:40] <Myrtti> he is in #u too
[11:41] <oCean> I see
[11:47] <excrementalist> so, oCean said I should join to find out exactly which part of the TOS i've infringed upon to justify a ban,
[11:47] <excrementalist> in my politely complaining about ubuntu upgrade from 11.04 -> 11.10 removing my gnome desktop.
[11:48] <excrementalist> i do not believe i've sworn, used obscenity as defined by the federal communications commisson of the united states,  nor have i been disruptive.
[11:49] <excrementalist> i find it extremely disheartening that oCean is allowed to ban me in the middle of my politely requesting - and receiving - help from 3 channel members with absolutely zero disruption to anyone else.
[11:52] <excrementalist> i signed in as poopdick and was getting help under that nick. oCean asked me to change my name, so I changed it to "fecalphallus" and he kicked me. perhaps this is justifiable if i were being disruptive in some manner. i note other users swearing in the channel without receiving any warnings.
[11:52] <excrementalist> but then i change my nick to excrementalist, rejoin, and ask:
[11:52] <excrementalist> excrementalist> oCean, why so humorless.. fecal phallus is a valid - but perhaps witless - expression of angst with the sudden changes to my ubuntu install upon upgrading.
[11:52] <excrementalist> and this is grounds for a ban?????????
[11:52] <oCean> Are you claiming you read our CoC and Channel Guidelines?
[11:53] <excrementalist> i'm claiming my behavior was not disruptive in any way, and your ban is completely arbitrary. I note you did not reply to my question in the query window, asking if EuroNerd was warned or banned for his language.
[11:54] <excrementalist> and, btw i have the ToS open in firefox and im reading as we discuss this.
[11:55] <excrementalist> OK so now I've read the code of conduct as well.
[11:55] <excrementalist> Again, I've been nothing but polite, except perhaps in my choice of initial nickname I used to join the channel, and even that is debatable.
[11:56] <ikonia> excrementalist: your argument that blows huge chunks of rotting excrement.
[11:56] <ikonia> is that polite ?
[11:56] <excrementalist> thats not what i said
[11:56] <excrementalist> i said, <poopdick> zaxonspox, damn, that blows huge chunks of rotting excrement.
[11:56] <excrementalist> in response to:
[11:56] <ikonia> your complaiing pile of steaming, rotting waste products
 poopdick didnt checked, but read, that you have to put some work to be able to choose gnome into gdm choose list
[11:57] <ikonia> is the way I'm talking to you polite ?
[11:57] <excrementalist> ikonia, i am indeed relating the concept that, if i have to "put some work to be able to choose gnome into the gdm choose list"
[11:57] <excrementalist> then that is, indeed, a huge pile of rotting excrement
[11:57] <ikonia> excrementalist: you are failing
[11:58] <ikonia> that is not a polite way to communicate with people
[11:58] <ikonia> I can take that same approach then
[11:58] <excrementalist> i was not banned for the above statement
[11:58] <excrementalist> i was banned for asking, " excrementalist> oCean, why so humorless.. fecal phallus is a valid - but perhaps witless - expression of angst with the sudden changes to my ubuntu install upon upgrading."
[11:59] <ikonia> excrementalist: yes, and that is a continuation of above
[11:59] <excrementalist> so in other words, to have ones work at customizing a desktop layout removed without warning by an upgrade, is acceptable to you?
[11:59] <ikonia> your language and approach to communication is unacetpable
[11:59] <oCean> excrementalist: As you might be aware in the meantime, our coc and guidelines comes down to "keep it clean, respectful, family-friendly and professional"
[11:59] <ikonia> if you have to explain it "in other words" it's wrong
[12:00] <oCean> if you don't understand your current behaviour is not acceptable, I would advice you to take some time off to consider this.
[12:00] <oCean> You can return in a day or 3 and let us know if you can work with the CoC and guidelines provided
[12:01] <excrementalist> oCean, and i would use the standards of "family friendly" that you are applying to EuroNerd and others who utilized language in a similar matter
[12:02] <excrementalist> would you like to review the channel logs from the past 24 hours to see just how many times others have used profane language and NOT been even kicked, let alone banned?
[12:02] <oCean> no, not at all
[12:02] <ikonia> worry about yourself
[12:02] <ikonia> euronerd made no such comments in #ubuntu
 Stanley00, I just installed it and tried to change sth and it completely f#cked up my desktop. Had to spend 20min searching for a solution on the web to restore it.
[12:03] <ikonia> worry about yourself
[12:03] <oCean> excrementalist: would you like to review the channel logs from the past 24 hours to see just how many users are happily complying with our Coc and guidelines?
[12:03] <excrementalist> if my lighthearted comments comparing a disruptive software upgrade to excrement are considered profane, then surely euronerds comment is far more explicit, yet he was not even warned.
[12:04] <excrementalist> again, i came back in the channel with a new nickname "Excrementalist" and attempted to open a lighthearted and jovial discussion with you, oCean, about the fact that my choice of wording was entirely based on having a software upgrade destroy or otherwise eliminate all traces of my efforts spent customizing the gnome desktop.
[12:04] <excrementalist> to which you responded with a ban.
[12:05] <excrementalist> that is hardly respectful or professional.
[12:05] <ikonia> well, those are the rules, you can accept them or not use the channel, your call
[12:05] <ikonia> come back as oCean said when you can make up your mind
[12:05] <excrementalist> but i have respected them.
[12:05] <ikonia> nothing more to discuss
[12:05] <ikonia> no - you have not
[12:06] <ikonia> that's just been explained to you with your fecal pile of excriment "style" comments
[12:06] <excrementalist> i complied with the request made with the kick.
[12:06] <excrementalist> i was kicked due to my choice of language.
[12:06] <excrementalist> the ban was entirely unnecessary.
[12:06] <ikonia> and then came back trying again
[12:06] <ikonia> with "joval" comments
[12:06] <ikonia> clearly not as you came back with the same approach
[12:07] <ikonia> when you are happy that you can join the channel without such comments or "joval" discussion I don't think there will be a problem
[12:07] <excrementalist> the word is Jovial
[12:07] <excrementalist> not joval
[12:07] <excrementalist> jo·vi·al 1. endowed with or characterized by a hearty, joyous humor or a spirit of good-fellowship: a wonderfully jovial host.
[12:07] <ikonia> apologies for a typo, but if that's your concern, I think you can stop wasting our time now and leave
[12:08] <ikonia> my "I" key is sticking due to a bit of lag
[12:08] <ikonia> I suggest you leave now and think about how you interact with people
[12:09] <excrementalist> i will be monitoring your ubuntu channel from several hosts over the next week, and watching yours and Ocean's activity as to consistency and impartiality of enforcement of the ToS and CoC.
[12:10] <ikonia> then you will be ban evading and I'll report this to freenode now
[12:10] <excrementalist> i will be taking this up with ubuntu channel management in email and/or physical, handwritten letter, as well as freenode staff, also in writing if need be.
[12:10] <excrementalist> you have no idea who i am.
[12:10] <ikonia> Freenode have nothing to do with the channel, you can contact them in #freenode if you want
[12:10] <ikonia> I don't care who you are
[12:10] <ikonia> leave the channel pleas.e
[12:11] <excrementalist> your actions in defending this ban are entirely arbitrary and capricious, while i have been - and continue to be - nothing but good natured
[12:11] <ikonia> leave the channel please
[12:11] <excrementalist> particularly in my request that if the rules are to be enforced, then they are done so impartially and consistently to all channel users.
[12:11] <ikonia> I suggest someone remove him
[12:11] <ikonia> leave the channel please if you want to show you can follow the rules
[12:12] <excrementalist> so be it. you will likely be hearing about this from your management staff.
[12:12] <ikonia> you've had the reason explained to you, you've been given the option of returning when you can comply with the rules, you continue to argue
[12:12] <ikonia> ok - I look forward to hearing about it from managment staff
[12:12] <ikonia> leave the channel and come back when you have thought about how you want to proceed
[12:12] <ikonia> now leave the channel please.
[12:12] <excrementalist> i have already stated, i was not in noncompliance with the rules upon my return. i was speaking to oCean. he could have replied with a reference to the ToS or CoC.
[12:12] <excrementalist> instead he banned me.
[12:13] <ikonia> ok - leave the channel, take it up with mangagment, we are done here
[12:13] <Myrtti> excrementalist: a link to the TOS is given to you when you join the channel
[12:13] <excrementalist> this is hardly professional. and I will be monitoring his and your actions for consistency and impartiality over the next week.
[12:13] <ikonia> excrementalist: I have informed freenode of your intention to ban evade,
[12:14] <ikonia> excrementalist: please contact our managment as you have suggested, leave.
[12:14] <Myrtti> excrementalist: while we thrive to be professional, it's all voluntary
[12:15] <excrementalist> Myrtti: i understand. and the only thing i've done which was apparently considered unprofessional, was express my disgust at having my work at customizing gnome removed by this upgrade, both in my nick and in exactly one statement in the channel.
[12:15] <ikonia> multiple statments
[12:15] <ikonia> and then a simialr style statement once you where kicked as a warning
[12:15] <ikonia> similar
[12:16] <ikonia> this has gone on long enough, you've been given chances to comply
[12:17] <excrementalist> ikonia: there was exactly one statement in the channel for which i was kicked. i came back in asking why i was kicked, and for that i was banned.
[12:17] <ikonia> excrementalist: I've given you multiple statments you said in the channel, I'll re-paste them for you
[12:17] <excrementalist> that hardly qualifies as "multiple" statements since i had to use the same words to express the question about why i was kicked
[12:17] <ikonia> 1.)
[12:17] <ikonia> 11:40 < poopdick> zaxonspox, damn, that blows huge chunks of rotting excrement.
[12:18] <ikonia> 2.)
[12:18] <ikonia> 1:41 < poopdick> oCean: i cant speak about the pile of steaming, rotting waste products that unity is compared to gnome?
[12:18] <ikonia> and after you where spoke to and kicked as a warning
[12:18] <ikonia> 3.) 11:44 < excrementalist> oCean, why so humorless.. fecal phallus is a valid - but perhaps witless - expression of angst with the sudden changes to my ubuntu install upon upgrading.
[12:18] <excrementalist> yes and i was only warned about ONE of those first two statements.
[12:18] <excrementalist> not both of them.
[12:18] <ikonia> this is petty
[12:19] <ikonia> you are banned - change your attitude and come back
[12:19] <excrementalist> so was the ban for asking why ocean was humorless
[12:19] <ikonia> discussion over
[12:19] <excrementalist> you note i did not contest the kick
[12:19] <excrementalist> i came back in, in full compliance.
[12:20] <ikonia> Myrtti: this guy won't leave or listen and continues to argue, threaten to ban evade, you can waste more time with him or remove him when you grow board, I a have enough of this waste of time
[12:20] <excrementalist> none of this disparaged any user in the channel, nor did it disrupt any users discussions or help they were receiving. the only thing i disparaged with my statements was the upgrade process that destroyed my work in customizing gnome.
[12:20] <excrementalist> again, i came back in the channel with a new nickname, which was oCean's last request to me, to change my nick, and the reason he kicked me in the first place.
[12:21] <Myrtti> excrementalist: ok, here's the beef
[12:21] <Myrtti> excrementalist: as I said to you in #ubuntu earlier, the problems you've experienced in 11.10 stem from the fact that Gnome 2 is *not* supported anymore.
[12:21] <excrementalist> and, my gathering statistics on the quality of operator professionalism, consistency and impartiality hardly constitutes ban evading.
[12:21] <Myrtti> it's not supported by Gnome Foundation and the developers, so Ubuntu can't support it either
[12:22] <Myrtti> other distros will soon move to Gnome 3 as well
[12:23] <Myrtti> this topic, however, with all the nuances that involve the subject, is not on topic to #ubuntu, which doesn't take sides and can only suggest alternatives, and we as ops can only ask people to take the discussion of comparing different environments to channels that aren't support only
[12:23] <excrementalist> Myrtti, indeed, I thank you again for your polite response to my query, admittedly expressed in an angsty (and perhaps witless) manner. you gave me good information, and i was well on my way to discussing further with zaxonspox about what issues he encountered getting gnome-shell to reappear in the gdm menu.
[12:26] <excrementalist> actually i have no problem with gnome 2 being unsupported. i am more than happy to begin the migration to gnome 3. but, since gnome 3 is already in the repository, i am surprised the upgrade process did not detect that i was still using gnome and already NOT using unity for 11.04, and automatically install gnome 3 or at least gnome shell.
[12:26] <Myrtti> now going on further with the discussion, #ubuntu aims to be a familyfriendly channel that is strictly support - and especially with the recent influx of users who are disappointed in the functionalities of Gnome3 and/or Unity, it's become a frustrating job to tell our users to move the discussion elsewhere. When your "angsty and perhaps witless)" outburst appeared on the channel with the language you used, people jumped. ...
[12:26] <Myrtti> ... Bleeped out cussing is frowned upon, and acronyms as well
[12:26] <excrementalist> i note the ~/.gnome2 hierarchy is still intact so probably my customizations are still intact
[12:27] <Myrtti> we have a policy that even obfuscated cursing is cursing as we all know what is meant, and so an op asked you to refrain from foul language and to change your nick to something appropriate
[12:27] <Myrtti> I'm certain your keyboard is capable of typing a nick that doesn't appear to be chosen just to spite people who have asked you to change it
[12:27] <excrementalist> are you saying that the problem is with my current nickname, excrementalist?
[12:28] <Myrtti> I see it as a display of an attitude that I'm not happy about
[12:28] <excrementalist> Because really, I was already aware that the issue was the profane nature of the concept of a "fecal phallus." Thats why I changed it to excrementalist.
[12:30] <excrementalist> ok well, considering that despite my choice of expressions, overall I've maintained a high degree of politeness and decorum about these matters, if I changed my nickname to something entirely different  - and agreed to keep my expressions within the ToS and CoC as I am obviously more than capable of, would the management here be willing to lift the ban???
[12:32] <Myrtti> ikonia? I'm happy to let him in
[12:33] <mentalgymnast> ill even go one further.
[12:33] <ikonia> up to you - I'm not, I find his atittude poor, and his threats to ban evade and "monitor" when he didn't get his way a bad atittude, that said, if you're happy, go for it
[12:34] <Myrtti> ok, entelechy: there's a catch in all this
[12:34] <entelechy> yes?
[12:34] <Myrtti> if ikonia or any other op is unhappy with how you behave, the ban is back on and discussing it here will be considerably more difficult
[12:34] <entelechy> understood.
[12:34] <Myrtti> do you understand that?
[12:34] <Myrtti> good
[12:36] <Myrtti> oCean?
[12:37] <oCean> If entelechy is convinced he understands what we've discussed, and under what conditions he can enter again, fine with me
[12:37] <entelechy> thank you.
[12:37] <Myrtti> ok, you can try to join now.
[12:37] <entelechy> i'd like to point out that the same sort of attention to the minutiae and wording should be applied equally to all users.
[12:37] <entelechy> i do not see it as "ban evading" to check to see if the enforcement of these considerations is selective and capricious as it seemed to me here, or consistent and impartial as it should be and hopefully usually is.
[12:37] <Myrtti> thanks for co-operation
[12:37] <ikonia> here we go again
[12:37] <entelechy> thanks, im really not trying to be disruptive.
[12:37] <ikonia> still complaining
[12:37] <oCean> :(
[12:38] <ikonia> screw it, this guy is not going back in
[12:38] <oCean> attitude is back
[12:38] <entelechy> so, to politely request consistency is to be construed as "attitude"??
[12:38] <entelechy> this is quite troublesome.
[12:38] <oCean> even tricked us in believing you understood
[12:39] <entelechy> i do understand. quite well indeed.
[12:39] <oCean> no, you don't
[12:39] <oCean> now leave the channel and consider what happened
[12:39] <oCean> !appeals > entelechy
[12:39] <entelechy> if these rules are to apply to me, they need to apply to EuroNerd too.
[12:40] <ikonia> they apply to every one - and I've told you 3 times, concern yourself with YOURSELF
[12:41] <entelechy> ive already demonstrated that by changing my nickname, YET AGAIN. it hardly constitutes attitude to make a polite statement that these rules should be consistently applied.
[12:41] <ikonia> I'm doing other things now, bye
[12:50] <ikonia> !idle | entelechy
 I'm doing other things now, bye
[12:51] <ikonia> correct, so please leave the channel now.
 concern yourself with YOURSELF
[12:51] <ikonia> that has nothing to do with anything
[12:51] <entelechy> perhaps I should. I'm busy writing several letters to your seniors in ubunti management. good day.
[12:51] <ikonia> please leave the channel now. you have been told how to appeal your ban,
[12:51] <ikonia> good idea.
[12:52] <entelechy> goodbye.
[12:52] <ikonia> bye
[13:20] <ikonia> hello orated
[13:20] <orated> Hello! Can anyone help here?
[13:20] <orated> Hi ikonia
[13:20] <ikonia> what's up ?
[13:20] <ikonia> how can we help
[13:20] <orated> I'm getting abusive pm's from nick monica in #ubuntu
[13:20] <ikonia> I was just looking at that, what sort of thing are you gettin g?
[13:20] <ikonia> links ?
[13:21] <ikonia> sorry, are you getting links ?
[13:21] <orated> Yes and things like that
[13:22] <ikonia> ok, I'll deal with this, thank you for reporting it
[13:23] <orated> I have shared partially what I was getting by PM to you, if you didn't mind that.
[13:23] <orated> Thank you
[13:23] <ikonia> delt with
[17:02] <Ignacio> Hi
[17:02] <oCean> Hi Ignacio
[17:03] <Ignacio> Excuse Me,, Me equivoque de canal
[17:03] <Ignacio> I need help:
[17:03] <Ignacio> Failed to create window or set video mode SDL error: X11 driver not configured with OpenGL
[17:03] <Ignacio> (Speak spanish)
[17:03] <oCean> !es | Ignacio
[17:29] <Ryan_Reynolds> oCean, why the ban?4
[17:31] <oCean> I'll be right with you
[17:33] <oCean> Ryan_Reynolds: So, I made it quite clear that the #ubuntu channel is not for general discussion, nor for your personal rants against specific developments in ubuntu
[17:33] <oCean> yet you continued in the same manner
[17:34] <Ryan_Reynolds> so asking for assistance in enabling my nvidia driver is a bannable offense?
[17:34] <Ryan_Reynolds> you're a fuckin retarded mod
[17:34] <oCean> Oh, that is going to help you
[17:34] <Myrtti>  it's a pattern
[17:40] <mneptok> i'm very disappointed in Andy Griffith.
[17:41] <oCean> mneptok: yeah, one would expect that he could make a better argument
[17:42] <mneptok> and a more genteel, gentlemanly one.
[17:43] <mneptok> maybe things get better after the commercials.
[17:43] <oCean> (:
[17:45] <mneptok> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXfQzfl9EQ
[21:15] <Jordan_U> Would it be a good idea to register the nick "ubuntu" so that users joining from LiveCDs would be switched to a Guestfoo nick? Or maybe recommend a patch to Ubuntu's Empathy / Xchat configuration to use something like "ubuntu-live-user" instead? Usernames like "ubuntu" kill lastlog.
[21:16] <pangolin> Guest nicks make me angry
[21:16] <Jordan_U> pangolin: I think you'll agree that they're better than "ubuntu" at least.
[21:17] <pangolin> a little
[21:17] <Myrtti> a good idea, I approve
[21:19] <elky> make the patch
[21:31] <Myrtti> elky: you're opped btw
[21:33] <elky> lies, all lies
[21:34] <Myrtti> I would actually prefer the plain Guestwhatever nicknames
[21:34] <Myrtti> atleast they'd be relatively unique
[21:34] <elky> yeah but it'd be confusing for the users to have their nick change
[21:35] <Myrtti> I've never seen it happen with people who use ubuntu as nickname but fairy nuff